Grand Arena..... will you benifit from sandbagging?

Grimstoned

Will the player base that levels all characters have an unfair disadvantage in this new game mode? Let us know now so we can stop gearing our beloved toons.

DavieJG

If they do the algorithm properly then it wouldn't just use pure gp.

Grimstoned

They should imo let us set teams then matchmake.

3pourr2

Doesn’t the player base that levels all characters have a disadvantage in TW? What is the advantage of leveling characters to 85 with level 3 abilities?

Grimstoned

Gear is just sitting there unused. Hey I just want this to be fair. I don’t see how newer player that have less unlocked should have an advantage over players that have everyone unlocked. I am confident that CG will figure this thing out. I just hope they clarify soon.

Goodgil

It's all about resource management. If you unlock everybody and level them up all at once, you'll get stuck very soon with different toons competing for the same gear, and you'll run out of purple & up ability mats. If you hold your resources for too long, you will have lower GP that can hurt your guild's racket and maybe your ability to participate in TB/TW/Raids, due to lack of relevant teams. Nobody would have thought Pao was someone you'll need to work on before Chexmix came along.
And at the end of the day, there is a fix for that in TWs. Once the defensive stage starts, any changes to your roster won't get registered. Which means if they want to hoard gear and only upgrade in the last second, that won't work since they'll get matched with a higher-ranking guild. I hope something similar will be implemented in Grand Arena, and I trust the devs have thought about this. If not... well, I did just write this opinion.

Nauros

I think they know well enough that GP in itself doesn't mean much. TW matchmaking is based on more, trying (with varying success) to match guilds with similar rosters. I expect it to be similar here, probably better since it's only matching players and not whole guilds.

Clash2Far

I highly doubt match making will be a single gp formula. Likely will include zetas / omegas, number of 6e mods, g12+ gear etc so you’ll be grouped with people close in terms of what could be used here. Unlike TW which has to factor in limited number of guild and their 100 players, hopefully this will be an easier one to pin down since it’s across all players. Fluff GP I doubt will really “hurt” anyone. Just one man’s opinion.

Vos_Landeck

We don't know what the rewards will even be yet....there may not be much difference in the rewards per group ranking anyway. Guilds tend to have GP cut-offs for new members, particularly due to the GP component of TBs, so there's an incentive to level the rest of the roster. I'm sure the actual formula will include more than just straight GP. We'll probably have a limited number of battles so the formula may look at only the top X players on your roster.

Ugnaught

I think we should all understand at this point that gear lvl is more important than character lvl.

Someone who focuses on leveling all of their characters at the expense of gear already has a weaker roster in general. I don't see why that should be any different in this game mode?

Grimstoned

I guess what I want to know from the devs is will leveling characters and ships that are not meta or are not used or whatever be detrimental to the matchmaking? I’ve heard things like fluff or padded GP. And some players are not unlocking toons and not gearing toons because it gives them an edge in TW. I am just hoping this new game mode has a more fair system for the matchups. Not just purely GP.

2smooth

Grimstoned wrote: »

Gear is just sitting there unused. Hey I just want this to be fair. I don’t see how newer player that have less unlocked should have an advantage over players that have everyone unlocked. I am confident that CG will figure this thing out. I just hope they clarify soon.

u sound like a collector there is no area of the game where u have a advantage and I don’t need to check ur arena standings to tell u that lol. How do u lvl characters at expense of gear u run out of credits and can’t throw on gear u don’t have lol. Lvling up is important or else they wouldn’t have skills require certain lvls.

Grimstoned

Lol you assume a lot 2 smooth. If you shouldn’t level characters unless X,Y, or Z. Let the players know it is all I am saying. Thanks

Grimstoned

Man...I really want to get those 30 shard packs but I don’t want to screw myself with under leveled characters. I prolly won’t get them geared up for weeks and that’s considered padding or bloating so idk what to do.

3pourr2

^ This is why you pick and choose to gear. Later in the game you can come back to other characters.

Vice_torn

3pourr2 wrote: »

^ This is why you pick and choose to gear. Later in the game you can come back to other characters.

Problem is when TW and TB came players were encouraged to fluff thier GP... Or Star up chars they would never use only to put them into platoons... I have a number of toons what are half thier max GP but of no use at all.


What we need for these new modes is a pvp tag. So we tag the characters and ships we want to use for grand arena, matchmaking could be done using to total GP of these chars.

If rewards scale up for how much GP your using everything should balance out...

CaptainRex

It's kind of confusing. You want as much GP as possible for TB, but only your "best" GP for TW, and presumably Grand Arena.

Padas

I am guessing the higher your GP the better your reward pool will end up being to try to keep people from sandbagging. But if the algorithm is as bad as the TW

Eddiemundie

dominiQC wrote: »

Nauros wrote: »

I think they know well enough that GP in itself doesn't mean much. TW matchmaking is based on more, trying (with varying success) to match guilds with similar rosters. I expect it to be similar here, probably better since it's only matching players and not whole guilds.

That's the kind of success we're up against. I really hope their "success" will be more positive in this new game mode.

It happens alot for the 120m gp bracket. Guilds below 120m will push for that bracket cause even if they lose they get 2 zetas. Guilds above 140m will sandbag to get an easy win and 3zetas. If they go up to 140 or 160m, they may lose and get 2.

The best solution would just be to tweak the rewards (mainly zeta and omega) upwards for the 140m and 160m gp brackets so that a loss puts u at the same level as the previous bracket. That way, little incentive to sandbag and let some members lose out. Will they do this? Who knows.

2smooth

Eddiemundie wrote: »

dominiQC wrote: »

Nauros wrote: »

I think they know well enough that GP in itself doesn't mean much. TW matchmaking is based on more, trying (with varying success) to match guilds with similar rosters. I expect it to be similar here, probably better since it's only matching players and not whole guilds.

That's the kind of success we're up against. I really hope their "success" will be more positive in this new game mode.

It happens alot for the 120m gp bracket. Guilds below 120m will push for that bracket cause even if they lose they get 2 zetas. Guilds above 140m will sandbag to get an easy win and 3zetas. If they go up to 140 or 160m, they may lose and get 2.

The best solution would just be to tweak the rewards (mainly zeta and omega) upwards for the 140m and 160m gp brackets so that a loss puts u at the same level as the previous bracket. That way, little incentive to sandbag and let some members lose out. Will they do this? Who knows.

my guild is 140 but competitive no sandbag for easy 3 just earn in brackets based on sign ups I doubt any guild tries to lower gp they just have less that sign up and it lowers but if a guild told players to not join they would leave because everyone wants zetas.

jhbuchholz

Eddiemundie wrote: »

dominiQC wrote: »

Nauros wrote: »

I think they know well enough that GP in itself doesn't mean much. TW matchmaking is based on more, trying (with varying success) to match guilds with similar rosters. I expect it to be similar here, probably better since it's only matching players and not whole guilds.

That's the kind of success we're up against. I really hope their "success" will be more positive in this new game mode.

It happens alot for the 120m gp bracket. Guilds below 120m will push for that bracket cause even if they lose they get 2 zetas. Guilds above 140m will sandbag to get an easy win and 3zetas. If they go up to 140 or 160m, they may lose and get 2.

The best solution would just be to tweak the rewards (mainly zeta and omega) upwards for the 140m and 160m gp brackets so that a loss puts u at the same level as the previous bracket. That way, little incentive to sandbag and let some members lose out. Will they do this? Who knows.

But rewards brackets have nothing to do with matchmaking?

Q: Does this mean our guild won't face higher reward tier guilds?
A: No. Matchmaking does not consider reward tiers, only your guild's squads for the match making algorithm.

https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/162893/dev-post-matchmaking-clarification-post-3-15/p1

Eddiemundie

2smooth wrote: »

Eddiemundie wrote: »

dominiQC wrote: »

Nauros wrote: »

I think they know well enough that GP in itself doesn't mean much. TW matchmaking is based on more, trying (with varying success) to match guilds with similar rosters. I expect it to be similar here, probably better since it's only matching players and not whole guilds.

That's the kind of success we're up against. I really hope their "success" will be more positive in this new game mode.

It happens alot for the 120m gp bracket. Guilds below 120m will push for that bracket cause even if they lose they get 2 zetas. Guilds above 140m will sandbag to get an easy win and 3zetas. If they go up to 140 or 160m, they may lose and get 2.

The best solution would just be to tweak the rewards (mainly zeta and omega) upwards for the 140m and 160m gp brackets so that a loss puts u at the same level as the previous bracket. That way, little incentive to sandbag and let some members lose out. Will they do this? Who knows.

my guild is 140 but competitive no sandbag for easy 3 just earn in brackets based on sign ups I doubt any guild tries to lower gp they just have less that sign up and it lowers but if a guild told players to not join they would leave because everyone wants zetas.

Lol u are clearly clueless. There are MANY guilds that do that. The maths works out this way assuming a guild of 50 players:
45 register - definite win, 3 zetas each = 135 zetas
50 register - likely loss against a sandbagger, 2 zetas each = 100 zetas

Over 10 tws, assuming even rotation, all players would get 27 zetas compared to only 20 if no sandbagging happened.

Of course, some assumptions were made, mainly the definite loss if no sandbagging was done. Bear in mind that the guild has to at least win 7 times to breakeven with the sandbagging method. The next assumption is the definite win when sandbagging, which so far based on my guild's experience is true. The last assumption is the even rotation, which is probably the least concern since there are less active players in some guilds that may take a break more often than others.

Eddiemundie

jhbuchholz wrote: »

Eddiemundie wrote: »

dominiQC wrote: »

Nauros wrote: »

I think they know well enough that GP in itself doesn't mean much. TW matchmaking is based on more, trying (with varying success) to match guilds with similar rosters. I expect it to be similar here, probably better since it's only matching players and not whole guilds.

That's the kind of success we're up against. I really hope their "success" will be more positive in this new game mode.

It happens alot for the 120m gp bracket. Guilds below 120m will push for that bracket cause even if they lose they get 2 zetas. Guilds above 140m will sandbag to get an easy win and 3zetas. If they go up to 140 or 160m, they may lose and get 2.

The best solution would just be to tweak the rewards (mainly zeta and omega) upwards for the 140m and 160m gp brackets so that a loss puts u at the same level as the previous bracket. That way, little incentive to sandbag and let some members lose out. Will they do this? Who knows.

But rewards brackets have nothing to do with matchmaking?

Q: Does this mean our guild won't face higher reward tier guilds?
A: No. Matchmaking does not consider reward tiers, only your guild's squads for the match making algorithm.

https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/162893/dev-post-matchmaking-clarification-post-3-15/p1

True i forgot about that, but from the past tws, it seems to be true anw. The matchmaking system is horrible as of now.

2smooth

Eddiemundie wrote: »

2smooth wrote: »

Eddiemundie wrote: »

dominiQC wrote: »

Nauros wrote: »

I think they know well enough that GP in itself doesn't mean much. TW matchmaking is based on more, trying (with varying success) to match guilds with similar rosters. I expect it to be similar here, probably better since it's only matching players and not whole guilds.

That's the kind of success we're up against. I really hope their "success" will be more positive in this new game mode.

It happens alot for the 120m gp bracket. Guilds below 120m will push for that bracket cause even if they lose they get 2 zetas. Guilds above 140m will sandbag to get an easy win and 3zetas. If they go up to 140 or 160m, they may lose and get 2.

The best solution would just be to tweak the rewards (mainly zeta and omega) upwards for the 140m and 160m gp brackets so that a loss puts u at the same level as the previous bracket. That way, little incentive to sandbag and let some members lose out. Will they do this? Who knows.

my guild is 140 but competitive no sandbag for easy 3 just earn in brackets based on sign ups I doubt any guild tries to lower gp they just have less that sign up and it lowers but if a guild told players to not join they would leave because everyone wants zetas.

Lol u are clearly clueless. There are MANY guilds that do that. The maths works out this way assuming a guild of 50 players:
45 register - definite win, 3 zetas each = 135 zetas
50 register - likely loss against a sandbagger, 2 zetas each = 100 zetas

Over 10 tws, assuming even rotation, all players would get 27 zetas compared to only 20 if no sandbagging happened.

Of course, some assumptions were made, mainly the definite loss if no sandbagging was done. Bear in mind that the guild has to at least win 7 times to breakeven with the sandbagging method. The next assumption is the definite win when sandbagging, which so far based on my guild's experience is true. The last assumption is the even rotation, which is probably the least concern since there are less active players in some guilds that may take a break more often than others.

Yeah have to c it to believe it was in a guild before when we got less sign ups would win because of lower bracket but people just didn’t sign because they were not active not because they were told so. And if guilds r taking it to that mathematical extre they should just get better in arena especially fleet and they could buy zetas instead of desperately relying on TW smh.

NicWester

3pourr2 wrote: »

Doesn’t the player base that levels all characters have a disadvantage in TW? What is the advantage of leveling characters to 85 with level 3 abilities?

I've only got three characters that need purples anymore--and that includes the two Marquee characters we just got.

It's all a matter of patience.

Anyway, we'll find out. I like Territory Wars, but I don't have time to do attacks so I just throw every single character I have on defense, since even my crummy teams of leftovers contribute the same banners as a guildmate's good team--but leave that good team free to either deploy in the front and soak more attacks or to use on offense. So I'll do the same thing for Grand Arena because I just don't care enough right now relative to the amount of time I've got.

LukeDukem8

it almost has to be based on gp...just because a player was smarter about resources, doesnt mean they should go against a 4m gp player, that makes no sense.

Eddiemundie

2smooth wrote: »

Eddiemundie wrote: »

2smooth wrote: »

Eddiemundie wrote: »

dominiQC wrote: »

Nauros wrote: »

I think they know well enough that GP in itself doesn't mean much. TW matchmaking is based on more, trying (with varying success) to match guilds with similar rosters. I expect it to be similar here, probably better since it's only matching players and not whole guilds.

That's the kind of success we're up against. I really hope their "success" will be more positive in this new game mode.

It happens alot for the 120m gp bracket. Guilds below 120m will push for that bracket cause even if they lose they get 2 zetas. Guilds above 140m will sandbag to get an easy win and 3zetas. If they go up to 140 or 160m, they may lose and get 2.

The best solution would just be to tweak the rewards (mainly zeta and omega) upwards for the 140m and 160m gp brackets so that a loss puts u at the same level as the previous bracket. That way, little incentive to sandbag and let some members lose out. Will they do this? Who knows.

my guild is 140 but competitive no sandbag for easy 3 just earn in brackets based on sign ups I doubt any guild tries to lower gp they just have less that sign up and it lowers but if a guild told players to not join they would leave because everyone wants zetas.

Lol u are clearly clueless. There are MANY guilds that do that. The maths works out this way assuming a guild of 50 players:
45 register - definite win, 3 zetas each = 135 zetas
50 register - likely loss against a sandbagger, 2 zetas each = 100 zetas

Over 10 tws, assuming even rotation, all players would get 27 zetas compared to only 20 if no sandbagging happened.

Of course, some assumptions were made, mainly the definite loss if no sandbagging was done. Bear in mind that the guild has to at least win 7 times to breakeven with the sandbagging method. The next assumption is the definite win when sandbagging, which so far based on my guild's experience is true. The last assumption is the even rotation, which is probably the least concern since there are less active players in some guilds that may take a break more often than others.

Yeah have to c it to believe it was in a guild before when we got less sign ups would win because of lower bracket but people just didn’t sign because they were not active not because they were told so. And if guilds r taking it to that mathematical extre they should just get better in arena especially fleet and they could buy zetas instead of desperately relying on TW smh.

LOL what crack are you on? My computations already showed an average of 35% more zeta mats through sandbagging. Even if the whole guild gets #1 in fleet arena everyday, sandbagging would naturally be the option because it nets the whole guild more zetas overall and over time.

Bz183

People even talking about sandbagging being a tactic in TW/GA shows how bad the devs pooped the bed in their matchmaking algorithm.

BrtStlnd

Eddiemundie wrote: »

2smooth wrote: »

Eddiemundie wrote: »

2smooth wrote: »

Eddiemundie wrote: »

dominiQC wrote: »

Nauros wrote: »

I think they know well enough that GP in itself doesn't mean much. TW matchmaking is based on more, trying (with varying success) to match guilds with similar rosters. I expect it to be similar here, probably better since it's only matching players and not whole guilds.

That's the kind of success we're up against. I really hope their "success" will be more positive in this new game mode.

It happens alot for the 120m gp bracket. Guilds below 120m will push for that bracket cause even if they lose they get 2 zetas. Guilds above 140m will sandbag to get an easy win and 3zetas. If they go up to 140 or 160m, they may lose and get 2.

The best solution would just be to tweak the rewards (mainly zeta and omega) upwards for the 140m and 160m gp brackets so that a loss puts u at the same level as the previous bracket. That way, little incentive to sandbag and let some members lose out. Will they do this? Who knows.

my guild is 140 but competitive no sandbag for easy 3 just earn in brackets based on sign ups I doubt any guild tries to lower gp they just have less that sign up and it lowers but if a guild told players to not join they would leave because everyone wants zetas.

Lol u are clearly clueless. There are MANY guilds that do that. The maths works out this way assuming a guild of 50 players:
45 register - definite win, 3 zetas each = 135 zetas
50 register - likely loss against a sandbagger, 2 zetas each = 100 zetas

Over 10 tws, assuming even rotation, all players would get 27 zetas compared to only 20 if no sandbagging happened.

Of course, some assumptions were made, mainly the definite loss if no sandbagging was done. Bear in mind that the guild has to at least win 7 times to breakeven with the sandbagging method. The next assumption is the definite win when sandbagging, which so far based on my guild's experience is true. The last assumption is the even rotation, which is probably the least concern since there are less active players in some guilds that may take a break more often than others.

Yeah have to c it to believe it was in a guild before when we got less sign ups would win because of lower bracket but people just didn’t sign because they were not active not because they were told so. And if guilds r taking it to that mathematical extre they should just get better in arena especially fleet and they could buy zetas instead of desperately relying on TW smh.

LOL what crack are you on? My computations already showed an average of 35% more zeta mats through sandbagging. Even if the whole guild gets #1 in fleet arena everyday, sandbagging would naturally be the option because it nets the whole guild more zetas overall and over time.

You are assuming that they’d lose every TW that they didn’t sandbag, and I doubt that’s true.

Bz183

You sandbaggers are scum and I hope the devs fix that crap soon. You all are ruining the best game mode we have.