Fix raid rewards

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I’m rather frustrated that if I solo a raid (yes even rancor) I can still end up with 17th place rewards?

Surely there should be 17 people with 1st place rewards then 18th etc.

Otherwise, I may as well not bother.

Replies

  • Nope, it is fine as is, this has been gone over many times, the devs are not going to increase reward payouts just cuz x people solo the raid,

    Either tag and forget or post an auto run, Or, An auto solo. And call it a day, and be glad you are at the point. Where rancor is trivial now,.
  • It takes 10 min on auto to solo the rancor and you get decent gear sometimes and occasionally it's fully crafted. Nit bad considering at the point you're at, it req no effort.
  • Nope, it is fine as is, this has been gone over many times, the devs are not going to increase reward payouts just cuz x people solo the raid,

    Either tag and forget or post an auto run, Or, An auto solo. And call it a day, and be glad you are at the point. Where rancor is trivial now,.



    Actually they promised to fix this starting with the south raid rewards back in April

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/165064/dev-blog-sith-triumvirate-raid-rewards-4-2-18

    "After monitoring how guilds are progressing through the challenging Sith Triumvirate Raid, we've significantly revamped the rewards across all Raid tiers. After monitoring early results & player feedback, we will do a similar pass on AAT & Pit Raid rewards in the coming weeks." From @CG_Carrie

    But they messed up the Sith raid implementation and we have not heard a thing on it since.
  • I wouldn't mind something like, "If you solo the entire raid, you can't get less than 10th-place rewards", but changing the algorithm so that all soloists get 1st place rewards would seriously change how many Stun Guns are given out.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I'd love to have more stun guns, but there has to be some resource constraints, and the primary bottleneck in this game is Stun Guns. If they gave all soloists 1st place rewards, that would change the bottleneck significantly and thus affect game balance in important ways.

    It would still be "fair" of course, because anyone who puts the right team together can solo the thing, but it would change the game, and EA/CG clearly doesn't want to do that.

    For what it's worth, I support the idea that a bottleneck has to exist - if there's no effort to improving your roster, there's no sense of accomplishment when improving your roster. If it wasn't Stun Guns it would be something else.
  • They need if you post damage its the same as another person is a tie


    Nothing like soloing rancor and getting 35+ place
  • Kyno
    20770 posts Moderator
    I’m rather frustrated that if I solo a raid (yes even rancor) I can still end up with 17th place rewards?

    Surely there should be 17 people with 1st place rewards then 18th etc.

    Otherwise, I may as well not bother.

    One would think so. It's how they handled other guild ties at that time, but nope..........
  • Krazyy57 wrote: »
    They need if you post damage its the same as another person is a tie


    Nothing like soloing rancor and getting 35+ place

    Exactly, what’s the point even joining
  • The lowest I've finished on a solo has been the 21-30 tier (I forget what place I was), but that's mostly because all the people that are super-active on other raids don't think Rancor is worth the bother. Usually there's only 15-25 of us that bother.

    The raid would be even more annoying if there were more than 30 of us doing it. I wouldn't want to be in that guild.
  • It just seems so pointless. If you can solo a raid you deserve top tier rewards.

    Otherwise what’s the point?
  • I'm more concerned with the reward discrepancies in the first place. Sith raid reward tiers drop massively. It's supposed to be cooperative yet the rewards system pit you against your allies far more than the raid itself.
  • @Nothingface
    I'm more concerned with the reward discrepancies in the first place. Sith raid reward tiers drop massively. It's supposed to be cooperative yet the rewards system pit you against your allies far more than the raid itself.

    Yeah, this.

    I remember going through squad management, test runs, being forbidden to run anything other than the single recommended team per phase, starting Chex Mix over and over and over, all so that the guild could figure out what we had and make sure we were going to conquer the thing before we went fully heroic/ffa.

    There was **so much work** to coordinate and to work as a team towards a single goal ... and then no matter how even or stratified our damage, the rewards acted like it was no team effort.

    I think that's sad, and, frankly, it leads me to playing less in raids. If the rewards were more even, if it wasn't so much about competition against your guildmates but cooperation with your guildmates, I'd probably do more in STR. As it is, it's no longer cooperative. So I'm not motivated to cooperate. We always win, it's not sitting out the raid is going to cause the STR to time out, so I go in, hit once, usually on auto, and what I get I get.

    Sure, I'm glad to have the rewards, but I'd be even more happy to have more cooperative play. Right now only TB seems to serve this purpose. (TW gives out identical rewards, but it doesn't require or encourage much actual cooperation.) That's too bad.
  • @Nothingface
    I'm more concerned with the reward discrepancies in the first place. Sith raid reward tiers drop massively. It's supposed to be cooperative yet the rewards system pit you against your allies far more than the raid itself.

    Yeah, this.

    I remember going through squad management, test runs, being forbidden to run anything other than the single recommended team per phase, starting Chex Mix over and over and over, all so that the guild could figure out what we had and make sure we were going to conquer the thing before we went fully heroic/ffa.

    There was **so much work** to coordinate and to work as a team towards a single goal ... and then no matter how even or stratified our damage, the rewards acted like it was no team effort.

    I think that's sad, and, frankly, it leads me to playing less in raids. If the rewards were more even, if it wasn't so much about competition against your guildmates but cooperation with your guildmates, I'd probably do more in STR. As it is, it's no longer cooperative. So I'm not motivated to cooperate. We always win, it's not sitting out the raid is going to cause the STR to time out, so I go in, hit once, usually on auto, and what I get I get.

    Sure, I'm glad to have the rewards, but I'd be even more happy to have more cooperative play. Right now only TB seems to serve this purpose. (TW gives out identical rewards, but it doesn't require or encourage much actual cooperation.) That's too bad.

    There is some cooperation needed to be a new raid. But the fact that if you don't make it everyone gets nothing is enough to booster this cooperation enough to beat the raid.

    And those who build better teams put more effort or money into it deserve better rewards.

    And once the raid is on farm, then it's mostly competitive to see who can get the highest. And once it's on easy farm, it's a race to see who can solo it fastest. So I'd say they're more competitive than cooperative anyway. Some will spend hours even after the raid is on farm running 5 teams to get a top 10 score. Why should the guy that hits the join button and does nothing else get the same reward?

    I believe raids are designed to be both cooperative and competitive at the same time. You have to cooperate to beat it but if you want top scores you compete.

    That way people keep building teams to do better even after it's on farm. If rewards were the same or similar enough no matter how you did, there's no incentive to continue building raid teams after it's on farm. But under the current system, you have to keep improving to keep or to get the top rewards.
  • I didn't say the same rewards, just a less drastic difference. Rank 3 compared to rank 4 is massive though the amount of money spent between the two is probably very little. Rank 10 v rank 11 is typically RNG.
    And there are already plenty of competitive game modes that encourage roster development.
  • @DarkHelmet1138

    You're kinda missing the point of my post.

    I understand everything you're telling me - none of that's new. What I'm saying is that there are rewards other than salvage, token, and credits. The game is supposed to be **fun**. We have lots of ways of competing, of enjoying sticking the dagger in someone else. We can sneak in a Rank 1 arena win, and HAAT is obviously super-competitive.

    I'm saying that the other rewards - the rewards that come from cooperating with your friends and not competing against them - are also important to me. What I'm saying is that the current reward structure allows me to skip participating and no one in my guild cares. For several of them it's just an easier cruise to the top 10 (even with effort I'd never be top3). For the rest of them, they're not trying either.

    I play this game not to swim in my gear salvage vault like Scrooge McDuck. I play to have fun, and for me cooperative elements of the game are much more fun than the competitive elements. I recognize that that's me - I'm not trying to speak for everyone. But this game is big enough, with enough different play modes that we could have more cooperative elements.

    Imagine if everyone in the raid got the same rewards, but the rewards got better the quicker you killed it. Imagine another raid where - like HAAT - soloing a phase is possible but very very difficult for most players. Instead of creating competition one guild mate against the other, imagine all guild members get the same reward, but the each player gets only one attempt per phase and rewards vary with total guild damage? Those are the kinds of things that unifies guilds, gets people communicating with each other and, yes, rooting for each other. I can solo p3/4 of HAAT, but I have to do it on manual. I can solo p1 in several attempts easily with ClS, but even with a perfect run I usually can't get more than 40% on one attempt with CLS. With some jiggling of mods and a couple attempts, I could probably solo all of p2. So I can do an entire HAAT by myself - and I don't have Threepio, Revan or a 7* Chewie yet - but nothing motivates me to actually do it.

    You say
    there's no incentive to continue building raid teams after it's on farm. But under the current system, you have to keep improving to keep or to get the top rewards.

    But there's no reason that the current system needs to be the system.

    The raids are there, the development work has been done. I'm not going to ask them to change HSTR or HAAT or anything. But I believe that currently competition is encouraged more than cooperation. I'm not anti-competition, I just feel we have a lot already. So I'm arguing for more cooperation-encouraging elements.

    The possibilities are real, and definitely creative. Imagine a Grand Arena that partners you with a random guildmate, then during the 24-hour join/pre-view period if you join up you can swap up to 5 characters for purposes of the GA only. You put your five on a slate, your guild mate puts characters on a slate, and if the guild mate puts fewer than you, only the first X number of toons of yours get transferred. Now you're talking to your guild mate, comparing rosters, figuring out how you can best help each other. I have 4 great jedi - but only 4, and I like to run GK with non-jedi. Should I give the 3 to my guild mate and let them run a 5 x Awesome squad? Or have them donate 2 to me, since with Bastila, GMY, and Hoda I have the foundations of a great Jedi squad and only need 2? Does it depend on which of us needs defense, since Bastila is better there?

    That kind of cooperation would be cool to see, and limiting it to guildmates further encourages ongoing relationships, since if you were paired with someone outside your guild you might never talk to them again.

    With combined-damage-scaling Raid Rewards, or time-to-finish raid rewards, or GA collaboration we can see an increase in the kinds of rewards that float my boat without rocking anyone else's.

    That's what I'd like in the new year.
  • @DarkHelmet1138

    You're kinda missing the point of my post.

    I understand everything you're telling me - none of that's new. What I'm saying is that there are rewards other than salvage, token, and credits. The game is supposed to be **fun**. We have lots of ways of competing, of enjoying sticking the dagger in someone else. We can sneak in a Rank 1 arena win, and HAAT is obviously super-competitive.

    I'm saying that the other rewards - the rewards that come from cooperating with your friends and not competing against them - are also important to me. What I'm saying is that the current reward structure allows me to skip participating and no one in my guild cares. For several of them it's just an easier cruise to the top 10 (even with effort I'd never be top3). For the rest of them, they're not trying either.

    I play this game not to swim in my gear salvage vault like Scrooge McDuck. I play to have fun, and for me cooperative elements of the game are much more fun than the competitive elements. I recognize that that's me - I'm not trying to speak for everyone. But this game is big enough, with enough different play modes that we could have more cooperative elements.

    Imagine if everyone in the raid got the same rewards, but the rewards got better the quicker you killed it. Imagine another raid where - like HAAT - soloing a phase is possible but very very difficult for most players. Instead of creating competition one guild mate against the other, imagine all guild members get the same reward, but the each player gets only one attempt per phase and rewards vary with total guild damage? Those are the kinds of things that unifies guilds, gets people communicating with each other and, yes, rooting for each other. I can solo p3/4 of HAAT, but I have to do it on manual. I can solo p1 in several attempts easily with ClS, but even with a perfect run I usually can't get more than 40% on one attempt with CLS. With some jiggling of mods and a couple attempts, I could probably solo all of p2. So I can do an entire HAAT by myself - and I don't have Threepio, Revan or a 7* Chewie yet - but nothing motivates me to actually do it.

    You say
    there's no incentive to continue building raid teams after it's on farm. But under the current system, you have to keep improving to keep or to get the top rewards.

    But there's no reason that the current system needs to be the system.

    The raids are there, the development work has been done. I'm not going to ask them to change HSTR or HAAT or anything. But I believe that currently competition is encouraged more than cooperation. I'm not anti-competition, I just feel we have a lot already. So I'm arguing for more cooperation-encouraging elements.

    The possibilities are real, and definitely creative. Imagine a Grand Arena that partners you with a random guildmate, then during the 24-hour join/pre-view period if you join up you can swap up to 5 characters for purposes of the GA only. You put your five on a slate, your guild mate puts characters on a slate, and if the guild mate puts fewer than you, only the first X number of toons of yours get transferred. Now you're talking to your guild mate, comparing rosters, figuring out how you can best help each other. I have 4 great jedi - but only 4, and I like to run GK with non-jedi. Should I give the 3 to my guild mate and let them run a 5 x Awesome squad? Or have them donate 2 to me, since with Bastila, GMY, and Hoda I have the foundations of a great Jedi squad and only need 2? Does it depend on which of us needs defense, since Bastila is better there?

    That kind of cooperation would be cool to see, and limiting it to guildmates further encourages ongoing relationships, since if you were paired with someone outside your guild you might never talk to them again.

    With combined-damage-scaling Raid Rewards, or time-to-finish raid rewards, or GA collaboration we can see an increase in the kinds of rewards that float my boat without rocking anyone else's.

    That's what I'd like in the new year.

    New game modes that are cooperative would be fine. But care must be taken to ensure that people are encouraged to pull their weight.

    Tb and tw have this to an extent eith better rewards for more stars or winning but still fail a bit with booting non participants being the only real way to get some to participate.

    The raids as designed have nothing to encourage active participation once it is on farm other than competitive rewards. My rewards are not better because everyone put up 10 mil rather than posting 0. Flattening the rewards just encourages people to post a zero with the current raids.

    Now a host of ideas could be done with a new game mode but this post is about rewards for the raids as they exist now not a new game mode.

  • My only point is that it doesn't need to be such a sharp drop off. After rank 3 on sith raid is a MASSIVE drop off. After 10 there is another huge drop off.
    I didn't say flatten the reward system. I'm simply saying don't make it such a massively drop that it encourages people to jump to an easier guild.
  • I was thinking about this and I have the solution.

    If you manage to solo the raid then you get the top reward. Otherwise it’s done on where you place score wise chronlogicially. E.g 5 people solo it all come first then the next player would be 6th.

    This stops the problem of 1 person soloing the raid then everyone else posting 0 scores and getting second.

    I really feel this would be such an improvement
  • Waqui
    5363 posts Member
    Obi1_son wrote: »
    Nope, it is fine as is, this has been gone over many times, the devs are not going to increase reward payouts just cuz x people solo the raid,

    Either tag and forget or post an auto run, Or, An auto solo. And call it a day, and be glad you are at the point. Where rancor is trivial now,.



    Actually they promised to fix this starting with the south raid rewards back in April

    https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/165064/dev-blog-sith-triumvirate-raid-rewards-4-2-18

    "After monitoring how guilds are progressing through the challenging Sith Triumvirate Raid, we've significantly revamped the rewards across all Raid tiers. After monitoring early results & player feedback, we will do a similar pass on AAT & Pit Raid rewards in the coming weeks." From @CG_Carrie

    But they messed up the Sith raid implementation and we have not heard a thing on it since.

    The quoted text and the (non-) issue discussed here are two completely different things. CG never promised to 'fix' what is being discussed here.
  • Waqui
    5363 posts Member
    It just seems so pointless. If you can solo a raid you deserve top tier rewards.

    Otherwise what’s the point?

    Did you consider the effects of increasing the rewards like you suggested? Imagine a guild with 50 members soloing Rancor raids (it's not unusual). If they all received 1st place rewards, that guild would win 47 additional reward crates, crates of the highest quality, and more tokens, shards etc. They would win it even if they didn't accomplish anything else than a guild with not a single player soloing: They killed the Rancor. Why should one guild earn more rewards than the other?
  • Waqui
    5363 posts Member
    I was thinking about this and I have the solution.

    If you manage to solo the raid then you get the top reward. Otherwise it’s done on where you place score wise chronlogicially. E.g 5 people solo it all come first then the next player would be 6th.

    This stops the problem of 1 person soloing the raid then everyone else posting 0 scores and getting second.

    I really feel this would be such an improvement

    The problem of 50 people soloing, which would give the guild far more rewards combined for the exact same result of a guild with no solos at all. A rancor kill is a rancor kill and nothing more - disregarding how many players soloed it.
  • Waqui wrote: »
    It just seems so pointless. If you can solo a raid you deserve top tier rewards.

    Otherwise what’s the point?

    Did you consider the effects of increasing the rewards like you suggested? Imagine a guild with 50 members soloing Rancor raids (it's not unusual). If they all received 1st place rewards, that guild would win 47 additional reward crates, crates of the highest quality, and more tokens, shards etc. They would win it even if they didn't accomplish anything else than a guild with not a single player soloing: They killed the Rancor. Why should one guild earn more rewards than the other?

    I’m not sure I agree. It’s not about the guild benefits but the reward for the individual player.

    Otherwise, Where is the incentive to farm a team capable of beating the raid?

    Plus my proposal is fair for all. If you can solo the rancor you get top loot. It’s open to everyone so it’s completely fair.

    Guilds with more teams that can solo will grow in gear faster, that’s true. But it’s no different than more powerful guilds growing faster than others through better rewards in TW & TB.
  • Waqui
    5363 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    It just seems so pointless. If you can solo a raid you deserve top tier rewards.

    Otherwise what’s the point?

    Did you consider the effects of increasing the rewards like you suggested? Imagine a guild with 50 members soloing Rancor raids (it's not unusual). If they all received 1st place rewards, that guild would win 47 additional reward crates, crates of the highest quality, and more tokens, shards etc. They would win it even if they didn't accomplish anything else than a guild with not a single player soloing: They killed the Rancor. Why should one guild earn more rewards than the other?

    I’m not sure I agree. It’s not about the guild benefits but the reward for the individual player.

    Otherwise, Where is the incentive to farm a team capable of beating the raid?

    Plus my proposal is fair for all. If you can solo the rancor you get top loot. It’s open to everyone so it’s completely fair.

    Guilds with more teams that can solo will grow in gear faster, that’s true. But it’s no different than more powerful guilds growing faster than others through better rewards in TW & TB.

    We don't agree then. I don't see your suggestion being fair for all. The guild accomplished nothing more by having several members soloing the rancor/tank. All the guild did, is still only to kill the rancor/tank. How is it fair, that one guild is rewarded better rewards than another for the exact same accomplishment?

    The incentive to solo the raid is, that you still get better rewards than anybody, who doesn't solo, and you get a chance for top rewards.

    It's a guild event, so yes, it's also a matter of the total amount of rewards for the guild.

    If instead you had suggested, that everybody, who tie for any rank in a raid, would receive the average rewards for those who tied, THEN it would be fair for all. However, this gives the same results as the current system when applied over a large number of raids.

    It's very different from receiving better rewards in TW and TB. To receive better rewards in TB, the guild actually has to win more stars. They perform better and hence earned their better rewards. In TW, when climbing to a new reward tier, a guild will also be matched with stronger opponents. Hence a win is a higher accomplishment and they earned their better rewards. But yes, higher prizes for losses in TW breaks the pattern.

  • my point, is that if your entire guild can solo the raid you all can have the same max score and yet end up with 47th place loot.

    You may as well not bother. Which is why I now don’t.

    By your logic as soon as someone can solo a raid the rest of the guild may as well not bother.
  • Waqui
    5363 posts Member
    my point, is that if your entire guild can solo the raid you all can have the same max score and yet end up with 47th place loot.

    Yes. And if they all solo every rancor raid, then after a large number of raids they will all end up with more or less the same amount of rewards. The guild receives the same total amount of rewards as any other guild, that performs equally well and kills the rancor. Fair for all.
    You may as well not bother. Which is why I now don’t.

    By your logic as soon as someone can solo a raid the rest of the guild may as well not bother.

    Soloing the raid still puts you ahead of all those, who don't, and gives you a chance to rank first among all those, you tie with. Wether that's worth the bother is up to you.

    Personally I only bother, if I rank high after the join period, before the raid becomes active. When rancor raids happen on evenings with other raids, the rule in our guild is, that only the one ranking first after the join period solos it, while everybody else just takes the zero score.
  • the time should be counted. Who's faster this better.
  • lmperator wrote: »
    the time should be counted. Who's faster this better.

    Lol no
  • leef
    12494 posts Member
    Soon we'll be able to sim the rancor and all get equal rewards. Assuming they tune the rewards somewhat fairly that will be a nice alternative to getting 30th place rewards with a solo.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Agreed! Cannot wait for rancor sims
  • nabokovfan
    119 posts Member
    edited March 30
    I was thinking about this and I have the solution.

    If you manage to solo the raid then you get the top reward. Otherwise it’s done on where you place score wise chronlogicially. E.g 5 people solo it all come first then the next player would be 6th.

    This stops the problem of 1 person soloing the raid then everyone else posting 0 scores and getting second.

    I really feel this would be such an improvement

    I agree completely. This is such an issue for me!!!

    I am in a guild, low on the totem pole, but I can manage to solo the rancor. It took me such a long time, effort, etc. In order to get my squad to that point and for others it is very trivial. We have some members who work together and will "wait" a minute or two before starting their solo run. This allows members to try to get top rewards and an "attaboy" to those who are putting time and energy into the raid.

    I have finished the raid first, my name on the list as the only name, I have hit refresh and no one else appears, this would verify my score and place (in my opinion). Somehow I finish no higher then 6th-15th.

    Final score should be by damage total only. If 10 people do it, they all tie for first. This stops players with more time and money from hoarding everything and gives everyone the same reward for their actions and efforts.

    This also extends (and really should) to raid sims. If a raid is "simmable" we would assume that everyone in the guild can solo that raid. In our group we aren't simming directly because of the reward tier. The people who finish "first" don't want to give up that gear.

    Now.... My issue, there is no way for me to ever get the pit fighter title in my guild. I would have to go elsewhere, finish it, and then return to my group. I cannot force anyone to stop taking first and share the title. Not in the current system.
  • Waqui
    5363 posts Member
    nabokovfan wrote: »
    I was thinking about this and I have the solution.

    If you manage to solo the raid then you get the top reward. Otherwise it’s done on where you place score wise chronlogicially. E.g 5 people solo it all come first then the next player would be 6th.

    This stops the problem of 1 person soloing the raid then everyone else posting 0 scores and getting second.

    I really feel this would be such an improvement

    I agree completely. This is such an issue for me!!!

    [...]

    Final score should be by damage total only. If 10 people do it, they all tie for first. This stops players with more time and money from hoarding everything and gives everyone the same reward for their actions and efforts.

    How well did you think this through?
    If this is implemented, then guilds with multiple solos will have a huge increase in rewards overall. This seems to work against what you are trying to achieve.

    Just relax. As time goes by and you complete a large number of raids, those that solo every time will receive moreor less the same amount of rewards and their rewards will be significantly higher than the rewards of those, who never solo.
    Now.... My issue, there is no way for me to ever get the pit fighter title in my guild. I would have to go elsewhere, finish it, and then return to my group. I cannot force anyone to stop taking first and share the title. Not in the current system.

    Patience, young padawan. The order of those who tie is random. As some point you will be first too. Check your rank you received during the join period. If you rank high/st here, you will also rank high/1st among those who solo.

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