Suggested, Simple, Improvement to GA Matchmaking

Replies

  • Taejang wrote: »
    Funny thing about this game, 750k GP is considered "very low" by just about everyone, even though it has taken me three months of daily play to get here, often hours a day. Obviously in an absolute sense, 750k is waaay lower than 3-4 million, and three months much less than two years or whatnot. I get the feeling CG spends little to no time on content or testing for my "stage" in the game.

    Which to some degree makes sense. CG's revenue is likely coming from accounts with much higher GP than mine. Some pretty questionable design choices in the low-end content though. GA's matchmaking might be another one of those choices that simply wasn't thought out for folks at my stage.

    It's because it is very much a transitory stage still. Sure, any GP is technically transitory, but there's significantly less difference between say 3.2 and 3.6 million than there is between 700k and 1.1m. However, to your original point about GA matchmaking, your GP band isn't special or unique. PvP, in any mode, requires strong, well geared teams, and good mods. The point of PvP, as opposed to PvE, is to make you constantly grow and evolve your roster, and to make you do it to compete with other people. With PvE modes (raids, TB, etc...), you only need to build your roster to the point where you can complete the content; you then don't have to improve your roster unless and until new content is released. With PvP, you have to continually work on your roster. If GA matchmaking paired based on whatever mirror match type formula people want (number of g12s, number of zetas, whatever), then there wouldn't be the incentive to improve your roster, because improving your roster would just land you with a new category of mirror match opponents to equal your improved strength. It goes against what PvP in this game is intended to do.
  • Tanzos
    168 posts Member
    edited January 9
    I'm tired of this argument. It's super simple to understand. It's not about advantages or who deserves to win blah blah...

    If you have a Laser Focus Roster:
    TW you can still participate and win.
    TB, you can still contribute and attack.
    GA, you have a greater chance of winning

    If you have a Bloated Roster:
    TW you can still participate and win.
    TB you can still contribute and attack.
    GA, you CANNOT win in certain matchups without the other player totally messing up or has a similar roster.

    It's not about deserving anything, it's that for most of the time it's completely hopeless to participate.

    TW and TB, it's fine because your guild can help each other out. And everyone can play, enjoy and be victorious in these game modes.

    In GA, it's just you. So if you don't have a fighting chance then why fight?

    Now there's a game mode that is literally hopeless for victory for some of us. What motivation is there? I can't roll back my characters stats so I cannot adjust.

    It's as simple as that. I have a specific type of roster, GA is genuinely not fun or interesting to me because of my choice. I WANT to enjoy the game mode but cannot.

    Usually when people complain about losing the response is "Git Gud" right? Well, how can I get good when I have 40 useless characters I can't downgrade? If I upgrade premium characters to G12+, I just rise in GP and get matched with other GP players with top heavy rosters. Until they release like 20 new "useless" new characters, I'm stuck for eternity.

    How can I make a choice to enjoy this game mode right now? I cannot, therefore it is a useless game mode that is pushing TW out of the way on certain weeks for some of us.

    That is why this complaint exists. It's NOT FUN to us and we can't do anything about it.

  • Tanzos wrote: »
    I'm tired of this argument. It's super simple to understand. It's not about advantages or who deserves to win blah blah...

    If you have a Laser Focus Roster:
    TW you can still participate and win.
    TB, you can still contribute and attack.
    GA, you have a greater chance of winning

    If you have a Bloated Roster:
    TW you can still participate and win.
    TB you can still contribute and attack.
    GA, you CANNOT win in certain matchups without the other player totally messing up or has a similar roster.

    It's not about deserving anything, it's that for most of the time it's completely hopeless to participate.

    TW and TB, it's fine because your guild can help each other out. And everyone can play, enjoy and be victorious in these game modes.

    In GA, it's just you. So if you don't have a fighting chance then why fight?

    Now there's a game mode that is literally hopeless for victory for some of us. What motivation is there? I can't roll back my characters stats so I cannot adjust.

    It's as simple as that. I have a specific type of roster, GA is genuinely not fun or interesting to me because of my choice. I WANT to enjoy the game mode but cannot.

    Usually when people complain about losing the response is "Git Gud" right? Well, how can I get good when I have 40 useless chatacters I can't downgrade.

    How can I make a choice to enjoy this game mode right now???

    That is why this complaint exists. It's NOT FUN to us and we can't do anything about it.

    Every GA you have 3 rounds of fights. Unless there's something really wonky with your roster, it's unlikely that you won't have at least 1 competitive match-up.

    Moreover, you're looking at your roster today. If you really want to like GA, and you really want to compete in GA, then plan on improving your roster in a way that will let you do so. There are plenty of older players who have plenty of "useless" characters in their roster, whether it's from old metas or dealing with old content (I've got a g11 Clone Wars Chewie sitting in my roster from back when he was my third tank for my PalpaTIE team for HAAT). If you focus your roster development going forward, then you'll "outgrow" those "useless" characters for the mode.
  • Liath
    3040 posts Member
    Tanzos wrote: »
    I'm tired of this argument. It's super simple to understand. It's not about advantages or who deserves to win blah blah...

    If you have a Laser Focus Roster:
    TW you can still participate and win.
    TB, you can still contribute and attack.
    GA, you have a greater chance of winning

    If you have a Bloated Roster:
    TW you can still participate and win.
    TB you can still contribute and attack.
    GA, you CANNOT win in certain matchups without the other player totally messing up or has a similar roster.

    It's not about deserving anything, it's that for most of the time it's completely hopeless to participate.

    TW and TB, it's fine because your guild can help each other out. And everyone can play, enjoy and be victorious in these game modes.

    In GA, it's just you. So if you don't have a fighting chance then why fight?

    Now there's a game mode that is literally hopeless for victory for some of us. What motivation is there? I can't roll back my characters stats so I cannot adjust.

    It's as simple as that. I have a specific type of roster, GA is genuinely not fun or interesting to me because of my choice. I WANT to enjoy the game mode but cannot.

    Usually when people complain about losing the response is "Git Gud" right? Well, how can I get good when I have 40 useless characters I can't downgrade? If I upgrade premium characters to G12+, I just rise in GP and get matched with other GP players with top heavy rosters. Until they release like 20 new "useless" new characters, I'm stuck for eternity.

    How can I make a choice to enjoy this game mode right now? I cannot, therefore a useless game mode that is pushing TW out of the way on certain weeks.

    That is why this complaint exists. It's NOT FUN to us and we can't do anything about it.

    Improving your roster towards a particular goal takes time. If you expect to do anything in this game “right now” then you generally have to spend money to get it done.

    No, you can’t downgrade those characters, but you can improve the rest of your roster around them so that they are a smaller and therefore less relevant portion of it. The highest number of character teams you need to place on defense in this mode is 7. Figure out the 7 best defense teams and the 7 best offensive counters to those teams. Build those characters. If you have them all perfect, it doesn’t much matter what the rest of your roster looks like. And the closer you get to this ideal, the less it will matter what the rest of your roster looks like.

    Saying you can’t do anything to improve in this game mode is defeatist nonsense.
  • That is where the problem lies. Because GA using all the GP you already see in this forum for Guild recruitment people saying that are unwilling to Raise their GP because of GA. You also have people out there that are purposely removing mods from lower toons just to deflate their GP to get better match-ups. i do no0t know about you but any part of the game that encourages you to have a weaker roster is just not designed right. Of course I think it is absolutely silly to make your roster worse for 1 part of the game that te rewards are not even that good. I could see if they put a new meta character shard in the GA rewards almost everyone doing this. I am more disappointed that with GA now in place they are messing with TW. Limiting characters in TW is crazy that type of stuff should be done in GA.
  • Tanzos
    168 posts Member
    edited January 9
    Liath wrote: »

    Improving your roster towards a particular goal takes time. If you expect to do anything in this game “right now” then you generally have to spend money to get it done.

    No, you can’t downgrade those characters, but you can improve the rest of your roster around them so that they are a smaller and therefore less relevant portion of it. The highest number of character teams you need to place on defense in this mode is 7. Figure out the 7 best defense teams and the 7 best offensive counters to those teams. Build those characters. If you have them all perfect, it doesn’t much matter what the rest of your roster looks like. And the closer you get to this ideal, the less it will matter what the rest of your roster looks like.

    Saying you can’t do anything to improve in this game mode is defeatist nonsense.

    Unfortunately raising characters to G12 just puts me against players who have more G12 than before. The difference, in theory, remains the same. The "fluff" still exists and will always be dead weight until they stop release new characters and everyone gears every character because there's nothing else to do, or the release a lot more "useless" characters that no one will gear up. Niether of those will happen.

    I've always focused on top tier characters, I G12+ C-3PO 2 days after unlocking. I have never neglected top tier characters. The problem is my GP is quite literally inflated. I don't use actual useable gear on useless characters, so I haven't been using gear unwisely. Leveling to 85, starring to 7*, gearing to purple and upgrading abilities to 7 hasn't hindered my top roster development. I just don't hoard that stuff.

    I have a ton of credits, 73mil and no one left to level up. I have tons of purple mats (224) that only 20 characters aren't all at ability lvl 7 (I stopped once GA became a thing). All the 7* came from bronzium, and assault battles or events. Again, I just don't sit on it.

    What am I going to do with 224 purple mats if only takes 30ish for a Zeta?

    It's not like I wasted those materials, I just didn't sit on them.

    That's my point. There is such an excess of materials that there's no point in hoarding them so I use them. Some don't for no legitimate reason other than to hoard.

    If I took all the levels off, abilities back to 1, unstarred the characters I don't use, and geared them back to 1, my top tier of characters would NOT get better. I would just be sitting on even more materials have a ton of already.

    Does anyone understand the difference I'm saying? My choice wasn't to waste materials on useless characters, it was to not sit on materials I have a gigantic pile of.

    I understand over time it will balance out but that would take a very long time because now no one is going to upgrade the useless characters now that GA is a thing. So I'll continue to stay a step behind until the "good" characters now become useless.
  • Liath
    3040 posts Member
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »

    Improving your roster towards a particular goal takes time. If you expect to do anything in this game “right now” then you generally have to spend money to get it done.

    No, you can’t downgrade those characters, but you can improve the rest of your roster around them so that they are a smaller and therefore less relevant portion of it. The highest number of character teams you need to place on defense in this mode is 7. Figure out the 7 best defense teams and the 7 best offensive counters to those teams. Build those characters. If you have them all perfect, it doesn’t much matter what the rest of your roster looks like. And the closer you get to this ideal, the less it will matter what the rest of your roster looks like.

    Saying you can’t do anything to improve in this game mode is defeatist nonsense.

    Unfortunately raising characters to G12 just puts me against players who have more G12 than before. The difference, in theory, remains the same. The "fluff" still exists and will always be dead weight until they stop release new characters and everyone gears every character because there's nothing else to do, or the release a lot more "useless" characters that no one will gear up. Niether of those will happen.

    I've always focused on top tier characters, I G12+ C-3PO 2 days after unlocking. I have never neglected top tier characters. The problem is my GP is quite literally inflated. I don't use actual useable gear on useless characters, so I haven't been using gear unwisely. Leveling to 85, starring to 7*, gearing to purple and upgrading abilities to 7 hasn't hindered my top roster development. I just don't hoard that stuff.

    I have a ton of credits, 73mil and no one left to level up. I have tons of purple mats (224) that only 20 characters aren't all at ability lvl 7 (I stopped once GA became a thing). All the 7* came from bronzium, and assault battles or events. Again, I just don't sit on it.

    What am I going to do with 224 purple mats if only takes 30ish for a Zeta?

    It's not like I wasted those materials, I just didn't sit on them.

    That's my point. There is such an excess of materials that there's no point in hoarding them so I use them. Some don't for no legitimate reason other than to hoard.

    If I took all the levels off, abilities back to 1, unstarred the characters I don't use, and geared them back to 1, my top tier of characters would NOT get better. I would just be sitting on even more materials have a ton of already.

    Does anyone understand the difference I'm saying? My choice wasn't to waste materials on useless characters, it was to not sit on materials I have a gigantic pile of.

    I understand over time it will balance out but that would take a very long time because now no one is going to upgrade the useless characters now that GA is a thing. So I'll continue to stay a step behind until the "good" characters now become useless.

    I didn’t say anything about you wasting materials. I said that if you want to improve your roster for GA going forward you can do so.

    It’s not true that nobody will gear up useless characters, because the game is constantly providing new reasons to do so. I have a bunch of g7-8 characters, but I don’t consider them fluff because I generally had a reason to put them there — legendary and HJ events, assault battles, TB requirements, the old mod battles, and whatever. I don’t expect things like that to go away because the devs are always trying to come up with reasons to make you work on more people.

    It’s a spectrum, not an absolute. It’s not like there are two types of people in the game and every roster is either perfectly lean or perfectly fluffy. Maybe you won’t ever be able to beat the top 1% of lean rosters in GA, but you can improve your roster and improve the percentage of battles you can win/keep close.
  • Tanzos
    168 posts Member
    edited January 9
    I also realize it's only been 3 GA's, so it's entirely possible I've just been matched with really top heavy players that have skewed my view of how this will continue.

    It's just frustrating seeing what you're up against and realizing that my choice to not sit on materials has come up as a disadvantage in a game mode that was just introduced, which is truly disappointing.

    I really like the idea, it just needs adjusting.

    Making the small changes to exclude characters under a certain GP would only help those who are disadvantaged. But still not really disadvantage the top heavy folks.

    Kyno says "Why should the top heavy roster player lose their advantage?"

    To which I reply, "Why should players who don't sit on 1000's of materials be disadvantaged?"

    No matter how you look at it, it can be improved to better suit a wider range of players. If it truly wasn't a problem within the player base, there wouldn't be this many threads about it.
    Post edited by Tanzos on
  • Tanzos wrote: »
    I'm tired of this argument. It's super simple to understand. It's not about advantages or who deserves to win blah blah...

    If you have a Laser Focus Roster:
    TW you can still participate and win.
    TB, you can still contribute and attack.
    GA, you have a greater chance of winning

    If you have a Bloated Roster:
    TW you can still participate and win.
    TB you can still contribute and attack.
    GA, you CANNOT win in certain matchups without the other player totally messing up or has a similar roster.

    I disagree with this. I think its more like this.

    If you have a Laser Focus Roster.
    TW you are most likely in a pvp guild that focus on TW and you will have a great chance of winning.
    TB you are most likely in a pvp guild and will contribute but wont get as many rewards as a Bloated Roster Guild.
    GA you will have a greater chance of winning

    If you have a Bloated Roster
    TW you will most likely in a guild that is more pve and will usually have a 50-50 chance of winning.
    TB you are most likely in a pve guild and will get more rewards than a guild that is pvp focus
    GA you will have a less chance of winning against a focus player

    There are two types of players.
    One that strictly focus on characters to compete in arena/fleet and usually in guilds that focus on TW. These players will only lvl up characters that are useful. They will usually have loads of lvl 1's because they dont really care about the rewards in TB since thats not there style.

    Second player likes to level all their characters they get. They dont really care about being in the top 100 of arena and 20 of the fleet. They are usually in more of a pve guild and focus in TB.

    Grand Arena is a pvp mode style game. The system should be used just like TW. If they change GA to help the pve players they should also then change TB. Because people who have bloated rosters get more rewards than players with more focus rosters from TB.



  • All very compelling arguments..but I find myself siding with miss matching. From my own experiences in GA I have been matched with players who have outnumber me in gear and abilities. So I have to respectfully disagree with the " laser focus" argument Laser focus has nothing to do with Zata abilities that out number your own 2/1, or O.P. toons that are not in your own roster because you have yet to complete the raids at 7* or the toons needed to finish the character events due to the release of the O.P. toon that was a cash grab because the farming phase had just started.

    Yes some people horde zatas and abilities to place them on new toons..but still again this isn't laser focus...it is only laser focus when roosters and ability items match regardless of who places what on which character. When my 27(z) is going up against 35+ zatas, and toons not yet in my rooster vs OP toons in my opponents rooster, match making is flawed, even though we share the same GP. This makes GA non enjoyable..and feel as if the matching is hand picked and heavy in favor of longevity or unlimited cash players.


  • Bosske2018 wrote: »
    Grand Arena is a pvp mode style game. The system should be used just like TW. If they change GA to help the pve players they should also then change TB. Because people who have bloated rosters get more rewards than players with more focus rosters from TB.

    This is the fact of the matter.

    Players have fluffed/bloated/inflated their GP so they and their guild have a bigger GP, so they get better rewards from TB.

    It was a tactical decision, made by them, to benefit them and their guild and I am sure both they and their guild mates enjoyed spending the extra rewards they gained

    Now those same players want to exclude parts of their roster, so they will get better rewards in GA.

    Sounds an awful lot like wanting to eat your cake and have it too

  • Bosske2018 wrote: »
    Grand Arena is a pvp mode style game. The system should be used just like TW. If they change GA to help the pve players they should also then change TB. Because people who have bloated rosters get more rewards than players with more focus rosters from TB.

    This is the fact of the matter.

    Players have fluffed/bloated/inflated their GP so they and their guild have a bigger GP, so they get better rewards from TB.

    It was a tactical decision, made by them, to benefit them and their guild and I am sure both they and their guild mates enjoyed spending the extra rewards they gained

    Now those same players want to exclude parts of their roster, so they will get better rewards in GA.

    Sounds an awful lot like wanting to eat your cake and have it too

    No. It's about generating match ups where it's actually competitive. Total GP matching does not create this when only the top portion of toons actually have any relevance to the outcome.
    Liath wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »

    Improving your roster towards a particular goal takes time. If you expect to do anything in this game “right now” then you generally have to spend money to get it done.

    No, you can’t downgrade those characters, but you can improve the rest of your roster around them so that they are a smaller and therefore less relevant portion of it. The highest number of character teams you need to place on defense in this mode is 7. Figure out the 7 best defense teams and the 7 best offensive counters to those teams. Build those characters. If you have them all perfect, it doesn’t much matter what the rest of your roster looks like. And the closer you get to this ideal, the less it will matter what the rest of your roster looks like.

    Saying you can’t do anything to improve in this game mode is defeatist nonsense.

    Unfortunately raising characters to G12 just puts me against players who have more G12 than before. The difference, in theory, remains the same. The "fluff" still exists and will always be dead weight until they stop release new characters and everyone gears every character because there's nothing else to do, or the release a lot more "useless" characters that no one will gear up. Niether of those will happen.

    I've always focused on top tier characters, I G12+ C-3PO 2 days after unlocking. I have never neglected top tier characters. The problem is my GP is quite literally inflated. I don't use actual useable gear on useless characters, so I haven't been using gear unwisely. Leveling to 85, starring to 7*, gearing to purple and upgrading abilities to 7 hasn't hindered my top roster development. I just don't hoard that stuff.

    I have a ton of credits, 73mil and no one left to level up. I have tons of purple mats (224) that only 20 characters aren't all at ability lvl 7 (I stopped once GA became a thing). All the 7* came from bronzium, and assault battles or events. Again, I just don't sit on it.

    What am I going to do with 224 purple mats if only takes 30ish for a Zeta?

    It's not like I wasted those materials, I just didn't sit on them.

    That's my point. There is such an excess of materials that there's no point in hoarding them so I use them. Some don't for no legitimate reason other than to hoard.

    If I took all the levels off, abilities back to 1, unstarred the characters I don't use, and geared them back to 1, my top tier of characters would NOT get better. I would just be sitting on even more materials have a ton of already.

    Does anyone understand the difference I'm saying? My choice wasn't to waste materials on useless characters, it was to not sit on materials I have a gigantic pile of.

    I understand over time it will balance out but that would take a very long time because now no one is going to upgrade the useless characters now that GA is a thing. So I'll continue to stay a step behind until the "good" characters now become useless.

    I didn’t say anything about you wasting materials. I said that if you want to improve your roster for GA going forward you can do so.

    No. We can't. That's the point. You can't ungear and unlevel those characters.
  • Tanzos wrote: »
    I also realize it's only been 3 GA's, so it's entirely possible I've just been matched with really top heavy players that have skewed my view of how this will continue.

    It's just frustrating seeing what you're up against and realizing that my choice to not sit on materials has come up as a disadvantage in a game mode that was just introduced, which is truly disappointing.

    I really like the idea, it just needs adjusting.

    Making the small changes to exclude characters under a certain GP would only help those who are disadvantaged. But still not really disadvantage the top heavy folks.

    Kyno says "Why should the top heavy roster player lose their advantage?"

    To which I reply, "Why should players who don't sit on 1000's of materials be disadvantaged?"

    No matter how you look at it, it can be improved to better suit a wider range of players. If it truly wasn't a problem within the player base, there wouldn't be this many threads about it.

    I'd go a step further.

    If grand arena is supposed to be an actual test of skill and strategy why should anyone have an advantage generated arbitrarily by a lazy matching system?

    I've had match ups where in comparing top 70 toons I've had 500k less GP than my opponent. Not even close to fair.

    I've also had a match against someone with an even broader and less top heavy roster than me and I stomped them. I imagine they have been continually stomped upon.

    GA so far is essentially being determined on who has the best top 70 or so toons. And very little to do with strategy because it can only get you so far.

    It makes no sense to match on total GP.


    Those defending this. Turn the tables.

    Next GA you can only use your 70 lowest GP toons. And no, you are not allowed to do anything to gear or level them up because we'll say there is no way to add gear now. Mirror situation of what some are facing.

    Think that's fair? Because its essenrially the same. your g1 L1 toons have as much chance against my g5 l85 toons as those g5 l85 toons have against your g12 l85 toons
  • I won all GA except 3v3, i have bloated roster, yet still managed to win against few guys who went with more laser focus on squads and thats all thanks to fleet B) i developed my fleet long before there was crystals in the fleet arena and i have not lost my ships a single time in GA. So i just put garbage on def and leave everything on offense, clear him and watch him fail on my fleet B)
  • No. It's about generating match ups where it's actually competitive. Total GP matching does not create this when only the top portion of toons actually have any relevance to the outcome.

    So you want only the top of your roster to count towards GP when it is in the GA, so you can feel more competitive and get better rewards but then want all your GP to count in TB, so again you can feel more competitive and get better rewards

    Why should you get both of these advantages over someone who hasn't padded their roster?
  • You all know everyone gets the same rewards in TB right? There's no competition in TB, every guild members gets the same. How big your guild is and participation determine rewards.
  • Tanzos wrote: »
    You all know everyone gets the same rewards in TB right? There's no competition in TB, every guild members gets the same. How big your guild is and participation determine rewards.

    Aye, but bigger GP means higher bracket and better rewards.

    So fluff that roster to get an artificially bigger GP for a higher bracket and better rewards in TB but then expect only the top end to count in GA, again to potentially get better rewards

    I just don't see why people would expect CG to do this and give them the best of both worlds
  • Liath
    3040 posts Member
    Bosske2018 wrote: »
    Grand Arena is a pvp mode style game. The system should be used just like TW. If they change GA to help the pve players they should also then change TB. Because people who have bloated rosters get more rewards than players with more focus rosters from TB.

    This is the fact of the matter.

    Players have fluffed/bloated/inflated their GP so they and their guild have a bigger GP, so they get better rewards from TB.

    It was a tactical decision, made by them, to benefit them and their guild and I am sure both they and their guild mates enjoyed spending the extra rewards they gained

    Now those same players want to exclude parts of their roster, so they will get better rewards in GA.

    Sounds an awful lot like wanting to eat your cake and have it too

    No. It's about generating match ups where it's actually competitive. Total GP matching does not create this when only the top portion of toons actually have any relevance to the outcome.
    Liath wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »

    Improving your roster towards a particular goal takes time. If you expect to do anything in this game “right now” then you generally have to spend money to get it done.

    No, you can’t downgrade those characters, but you can improve the rest of your roster around them so that they are a smaller and therefore less relevant portion of it. The highest number of character teams you need to place on defense in this mode is 7. Figure out the 7 best defense teams and the 7 best offensive counters to those teams. Build those characters. If you have them all perfect, it doesn’t much matter what the rest of your roster looks like. And the closer you get to this ideal, the less it will matter what the rest of your roster looks like.

    Saying you can’t do anything to improve in this game mode is defeatist nonsense.

    Unfortunately raising characters to G12 just puts me against players who have more G12 than before. The difference, in theory, remains the same. The "fluff" still exists and will always be dead weight until they stop release new characters and everyone gears every character because there's nothing else to do, or the release a lot more "useless" characters that no one will gear up. Niether of those will happen.

    I've always focused on top tier characters, I G12+ C-3PO 2 days after unlocking. I have never neglected top tier characters. The problem is my GP is quite literally inflated. I don't use actual useable gear on useless characters, so I haven't been using gear unwisely. Leveling to 85, starring to 7*, gearing to purple and upgrading abilities to 7 hasn't hindered my top roster development. I just don't hoard that stuff.

    I have a ton of credits, 73mil and no one left to level up. I have tons of purple mats (224) that only 20 characters aren't all at ability lvl 7 (I stopped once GA became a thing). All the 7* came from bronzium, and assault battles or events. Again, I just don't sit on it.

    What am I going to do with 224 purple mats if only takes 30ish for a Zeta?

    It's not like I wasted those materials, I just didn't sit on them.

    That's my point. There is such an excess of materials that there's no point in hoarding them so I use them. Some don't for no legitimate reason other than to hoard.

    If I took all the levels off, abilities back to 1, unstarred the characters I don't use, and geared them back to 1, my top tier of characters would NOT get better. I would just be sitting on even more materials have a ton of already.

    Does anyone understand the difference I'm saying? My choice wasn't to waste materials on useless characters, it was to not sit on materials I have a gigantic pile of.

    I understand over time it will balance out but that would take a very long time because now no one is going to upgrade the useless characters now that GA is a thing. So I'll continue to stay a step behind until the "good" characters now become useless.

    I didn’t say anything about you wasting materials. I said that if you want to improve your roster for GA going forward you can do so.

    No. We can't. That's the point. You can't ungear and unlevel those characters.

    My prior post was specifically addressing this point. Just saying “no we can’t” without acknowledging anything I said isn’t productive discussion.
  • Tanzos wrote: »
    You all know everyone gets the same rewards in TB right? There's no competition in TB, every guild members gets the same. How big your guild is and participation determine rewards.

    Aye, but bigger GP means higher bracket and better rewards.

    So fluff that roster to get an artificially bigger GP for a higher bracket and better rewards in TB but then expect only the top end to count in GA, again to potentially get better rewards

    I just don't see why people would expect CG to do this and give them the best of both worlds

    Cause GA is supposed to be competitive. And usually competitions are usually designed to be fair and equal. Not always, but usually. And many of us would like it to be fair and equal. Hence the post.
  • Liath
    3040 posts Member
    Tanzos wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    You all know everyone gets the same rewards in TB right? There's no competition in TB, every guild members gets the same. How big your guild is and participation determine rewards.

    Aye, but bigger GP means higher bracket and better rewards.

    So fluff that roster to get an artificially bigger GP for a higher bracket and better rewards in TB but then expect only the top end to count in GA, again to potentially get better rewards

    I just don't see why people would expect CG to do this and give them the best of both worlds

    Cause GA is supposed to be competitive. And usually competitions are usually designed to be fair and equal. Not always, but usually. And many of us would like it to be fair and equal. Hence the post.

    It depends on the goal, but competition is rarely designed to be equal (which is not the same thing as fair). If you are trying to find the best person/team/whatever, you don’t just put people who are equally matched against each other. Bangladesh competes with the US and Russia and whatever in the Olympic events they choose to enter.
  • Kyno
    19211 posts Moderator
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    You all know everyone gets the same rewards in TB right? There's no competition in TB, every guild members gets the same. How big your guild is and participation determine rewards.

    Aye, but bigger GP means higher bracket and better rewards.

    So fluff that roster to get an artificially bigger GP for a higher bracket and better rewards in TB but then expect only the top end to count in GA, again to potentially get better rewards

    I just don't see why people would expect CG to do this and give them the best of both worlds

    The other part of this discussion that people seem to be forgetting is that CG introduced GA - the only game mode that I am aware of that "punishes" bloat GP - 3 years into the game. People can't "ungear" or "unlevel" characters they geared or leveled up years ago for specific events or modes that are no longer even around, or needed.

    TW has the same punishment, the team count is less and we all have guildmates that help balance it out, but guilds can still be matched with more competitive guilds because they have a high GP from "bloat".
  • Well look at it from the other side of the coin.

    The extra rewards from being in a higher TB bracket due to a fluffy roster will be extra currency, zeta mats, gear pieces, etc which will then probaby be used to purchase and power up some of the top 60 toons that was mentioned earlier.

    So those toons themselves will be artificially inflated by having the extra rewards spent on them.

    Why should anyone who hasn't gone down that route with their roster, then have to compete against these artificially inflated toons? How is that fair on them?
  • Liath
    3040 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Tanzos wrote: »
    You all know everyone gets the same rewards in TB right? There's no competition in TB, every guild members gets the same. How big your guild is and participation determine rewards.

    Aye, but bigger GP means higher bracket and better rewards.

    So fluff that roster to get an artificially bigger GP for a higher bracket and better rewards in TB but then expect only the top end to count in GA, again to potentially get better rewards

    I just don't see why people would expect CG to do this and give them the best of both worlds

    The other part of this discussion that people seem to be forgetting is that CG introduced GA - the only game mode that I am aware of that "punishes" bloat GP - 3 years into the game. People can't "ungear" or "unlevel" characters they geared or leveled up years ago for specific events or modes that are no longer even around, or needed.

    TW has the same punishment, the team count is less and we all have guildmates that help balance it out, but guilds can still be matched with more competitive guilds because they have a high GP from "bloat".

    True - but, as you stated, that tends to be mitigated over 50 members of the guild and tends to even out.

    My last GA, there was 1 of the 8 of us that had Revan. The bottom of his roster was all unleveled and I would guess he had stripped mods off most of his characters as well. It's the only way he could have the type of top-heavy roster he did and still somehow be matched with the other 7 of us based on GP. He had many more full g12+ characters than the rest of us - and Revan. He won easily.

    In TW, that can be balanced out with other guildmates who have slightly stronger rosters or some who might have kept Revan counters for offense. In GA there is no such balancing factors. Either you left a ton of undeveloped characters at the bottom of your roster or you didn't. If you didn't, you will face teams that have Revan when you (and the other 6 players) don't. That's not balance.

    What does having Revan have to do with having a lean vs fluffy roster? I’m not trying to be difficult, I really don’t understand the connection.
  • Liath
    3040 posts Member
    Your suggestion is "git gud" without acknowledging that to develop a roster "ideal" for GA is impossible because you can't actually do anything to reset character upgrades you made over a year ago to help your guild for territory battles.

    Nope. You are still completely ignoring what I actually said.
  • Liath wrote: »
    Your suggestion is "git gud" without acknowledging that to develop a roster "ideal" for GA is impossible because you can't actually do anything to reset character upgrades you made over a year ago to help your guild for territory battles.

    Nope. You are still completely ignoring what I actually said.

    Nah, I read it. You're ignoring that you can't downgrade those toons. The gap can't be worked on because it can't be undone.

  • Nah, I read it. You're ignoring that you can't downgrade those toons. The gap can't be worked on because it can't be undone.

    It can be worked on - If you only use x strongest toons in GA, and super-tuned guy has those toons maxed, what's he gonna do? Work on less meta toons. And then he's right where you are.
    Ally Code 766-465-766 swgoh.gg/u/trystansr/collection/
  • Liath
    3040 posts Member
    Liath wrote: »
    Your suggestion is "git gud" without acknowledging that to develop a roster "ideal" for GA is impossible because you can't actually do anything to reset character upgrades you made over a year ago to help your guild for territory battles.

    Nope. You are still completely ignoring what I actually said.

    Nah, I read it. You're ignoring that you can't downgrade those toons. The gap can't be worked on because it can't be undone.

    I’m not ignoring it because I specifically addressed it. My point is that in spite of the fact that you can’t downgrade those characters, you can nonetheless improve your chances in GA over time by improving your roster and making those fluff characters a smaller and less relevant percentage of your GP.

    Tell me this. You say that matchmaking should only count 70 characters because only 70 characters matter in GA. That’s *your* argument right? So if only 70 characters matter and everything else is irrelevant, then isn’t it the case that if you have the ideal 70 characters to use all completely maxed out, it makes no difference what else you have or don’t have? So if you compare two people, and one has 70 great characters maxed and then 20 less-great characters at g10-11 and the rest at g1; and the second has the same great 70 characters maxed and then every other character at g6-8; and they have the same GP. According to you, this would be a fair and even match right? So then isn’t it necessarily true that if you max out those 70 characters, you’ve made up for any fluff issue?

  • Nah, I read it. You're ignoring that you can't downgrade those toons. The gap can't be worked on because it can't be undone.

    It can be worked on - If you only use x strongest toons in GA, and super-tuned guy has those toons maxed, what's he gonna do? Work on less meta toons. And then he's right where you are.

    No one is choosing to level and gear these toons now. And no one is going to do that now that investing in those toons disadvantages you in this game mode (ie lobot, ugnaught, jedi guardian, etc etc)

    The issue is we were encouraged to invest excess gear and currency into these toons in July 2017.

    Investing in your roster has never been a disadvantage. A waste of time maybe, but never a disadvantage until grand arena. And you cant go back.
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