Grand Arena Scoring Hide Suggestion

Replies

  • Kyno
    20556 posts Moderator
    Grizz331 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    That's how "playing chicken" works.

    I have not had anyone wait that long yet.

    Oh my opponent is only attacking me now. Right after i cleared the board about 10min ago. Of course i was waiting too, but it’s 1230am now.

    I said it before and i’ll say it again, just hide the fricking points. It’s not strategy if your opponent is forever disadvantaged by timezone. And if GA cycles don’t rotate through different timezones, it is plain unfair to those who live where GA ends at 2-6am.

    Oh and maybe your opponents didnt wait that long because u know, perhaps GA ends at 5am for them so they don’t have much of a choice? Nice try.

    There is always a choice. Yes it is a strategy, just because one person may not be able to utilize it due to external factors doesnt change that fact.
    How is waiting until the end a strategy? Shouldn't you be trying to clear the opponent's side and get as many points as possible doing so? What the other guy is (not) doing has no bearing on trying to do your best.

    I will generally wait, but slowly clear out the more difficult teams. Saving the "easier" ones in case I dont clear on the first try to maybe make up points. But if you want to wait and see how your opponent does, that can be helpful. There is much less stress if they hit one or multiple 2s or possibly a 3.

    First focus should always be a clean wins, but if I need the extra point or 2, i will go in with a man down when i can. I wouldnt normally do that if i didnt know if would give me a win. The risk vs reward is not great enough to do that for "no reason".

    So having a strategy based on your opponent being ALWAYS forced to attack early because of his timezone is a strategy? Well done. I commend your deep thinking and understanding. Why not develop a strategy based on not knowing how many points your opponent scored? You clearly just want an advantage that some others will PERMANENTLY not have because GA does not rotate through time zones. Why not try setting your arena payout to 3am everyday? Then u can do fleet at 4am too! Can’t snipe? Too bad, poor strategy.

    no one knows when their opponent is going to attack... again, that how chicken works, you dont know what the other person is going to do.

    I base my attacks on what i can and want to do, if i see a score and i can beat it I will try, but if i dont see a score , i do what i can to put up the best numbers.

    my strategy is more based on what i see in there roster. but i'm not going to put down someone elses strategy if thats what they want to to do.

    So what’s your point?

    There is no reason to hide the score. some people like to use this as a strategy, why take it away from them. win some you lose some, if you are losing by a few point change your strategy. (i dont mean you personally)
  • Grizz331
    55 posts Member
    edited January 5
    The reason to hide the score is because it is more fair. But other than that I don’t have any good reasons.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Grizz331 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    That's how "playing chicken" works.

    I have not had anyone wait that long yet.

    Oh my opponent is only attacking me now. Right after i cleared the board about 10min ago. Of course i was waiting too, but it’s 1230am now.

    I said it before and i’ll say it again, just hide the fricking points. It’s not strategy if your opponent is forever disadvantaged by timezone. And if GA cycles don’t rotate through different timezones, it is plain unfair to those who live where GA ends at 2-6am.

    Oh and maybe your opponents didnt wait that long because u know, perhaps GA ends at 5am for them so they don’t have much of a choice? Nice try.

    There is always a choice. Yes it is a strategy, just because one person may not be able to utilize it due to external factors doesnt change that fact.
    How is waiting until the end a strategy? Shouldn't you be trying to clear the opponent's side and get as many points as possible doing so? What the other guy is (not) doing has no bearing on trying to do your best.

    I will generally wait, but slowly clear out the more difficult teams. Saving the "easier" ones in case I dont clear on the first try to maybe make up points. But if you want to wait and see how your opponent does, that can be helpful. There is much less stress if they hit one or multiple 2s or possibly a 3.

    First focus should always be a clean wins, but if I need the extra point or 2, i will go in with a man down when i can. I wouldnt normally do that if i didnt know if would give me a win. The risk vs reward is not great enough to do that for "no reason".

    So having a strategy based on your opponent being ALWAYS forced to attack early because of his timezone is a strategy? Well done. I commend your deep thinking and understanding. Why not develop a strategy based on not knowing how many points your opponent scored? You clearly just want an advantage that some others will PERMANENTLY not have because GA does not rotate through time zones. Why not try setting your arena payout to 3am everyday? Then u can do fleet at 4am too! Can’t snipe? Too bad, poor strategy.

    no one knows when their opponent is going to attack... again, that how chicken works, you dont know what the other person is going to do.

    I base my attacks on what i can and want to do, if i see a score and i can beat it I will try, but if i dont see a score , i do what i can to put up the best numbers.

    my strategy is more based on what i see in there roster. but i'm not going to put down someone elses strategy if thats what they want to to do.

    So what’s your point?

    There is no reason to hide the score. some people like to use this as a strategy, why take it away from them. win some you lose some, if you are losing by a few point change your strategy. (i dont mean you personally)

    But some will not be able to employ this strategy because of timezone. Sure, we can keep this here, but in that case then GA should be rotated through timezones to make it fair. That way nobody can chicken all the time.
  • TVF
    12653 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Grizz331 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    That's how "playing chicken" works.

    I have not had anyone wait that long yet.

    Oh my opponent is only attacking me now. Right after i cleared the board about 10min ago. Of course i was waiting too, but it’s 1230am now.

    I said it before and i’ll say it again, just hide the fricking points. It’s not strategy if your opponent is forever disadvantaged by timezone. And if GA cycles don’t rotate through different timezones, it is plain unfair to those who live where GA ends at 2-6am.

    Oh and maybe your opponents didnt wait that long because u know, perhaps GA ends at 5am for them so they don’t have much of a choice? Nice try.

    There is always a choice. Yes it is a strategy, just because one person may not be able to utilize it due to external factors doesnt change that fact.
    How is waiting until the end a strategy? Shouldn't you be trying to clear the opponent's side and get as many points as possible doing so? What the other guy is (not) doing has no bearing on trying to do your best.

    I will generally wait, but slowly clear out the more difficult teams. Saving the "easier" ones in case I dont clear on the first try to maybe make up points. But if you want to wait and see how your opponent does, that can be helpful. There is much less stress if they hit one or multiple 2s or possibly a 3.

    First focus should always be a clean wins, but if I need the extra point or 2, i will go in with a man down when i can. I wouldnt normally do that if i didnt know if would give me a win. The risk vs reward is not great enough to do that for "no reason".

    So having a strategy based on your opponent being ALWAYS forced to attack early because of his timezone is a strategy? Well done. I commend your deep thinking and understanding. Why not develop a strategy based on not knowing how many points your opponent scored? You clearly just want an advantage that some others will PERMANENTLY not have because GA does not rotate through time zones. Why not try setting your arena payout to 3am everyday? Then u can do fleet at 4am too! Can’t snipe? Too bad, poor strategy.

    no one knows when their opponent is going to attack... again, that how chicken works, you dont know what the other person is going to do.

    I base my attacks on what i can and want to do, if i see a score and i can beat it I will try, but if i dont see a score , i do what i can to put up the best numbers.

    my strategy is more based on what i see in there roster. but i'm not going to put down someone elses strategy if thats what they want to to do.

    So what’s your point?

    There is no reason to hide the score. some people like to use this as a strategy, why take it away from them. win some you lose some, if you are losing by a few point change your strategy. (i dont mean you personally)

    But some will not be able to employ this strategy because of timezone. Sure, we can keep this here, but in that case then GA should be rotated through timezones to make it fair. That way nobody can chicken all the time.

    I agree with this. The phases should rotate on some sort of shifting schedule.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Go for max banners every time. Problem solved. No hiding scores.
  • TVF
    12653 posts Member
    Go for max banners every time. Problem solved. No hiding scores.

    So you clear the board right out of the gate every time with a single toon?
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Kyno wrote: »
    no one knows when their opponent is going to attack... again, that how chicken works, you dont know what the other person is going to do.

    I base my attacks on what i can and want to do, if i see a score and i can beat it I will try, but if i dont see a score , i do what i can to put up the best numbers.

    my strategy is more based on what i see in there roster. but i'm not going to put down someone elses strategy if thats what they want to to do.

    Chicken presumes equal opportunity. Grand Arena rounds (at least so far) end at 5 pm for me. Generally speaking, from 4 to 5 pm, if I need to do battles I can fairly easily. For someone like the OP, that's not a reasonable option. So if we are matched up, we're not playing chicken, because it's not equal opportunity.
  • Kyno
    20556 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    no one knows when their opponent is going to attack... again, that how chicken works, you dont know what the other person is going to do.

    I base my attacks on what i can and want to do, if i see a score and i can beat it I will try, but if i dont see a score , i do what i can to put up the best numbers.

    my strategy is more based on what i see in there roster. but i'm not going to put down someone elses strategy if thats what they want to to do.

    Chicken presumes equal opportunity. Grand Arena rounds (at least so far) end at 5 pm for me. Generally speaking, from 4 to 5 pm, if I need to do battles I can fairly easily. For someone like the OP, that's not a reasonable option. So if we are matched up, we're not playing chicken, because it's not equal opportunity.

    Everyone has the same opportunity, but may not make the personal choice to take advantage of that startegy. Some will have work some will want to sleep, and others will just choose to have lives and not be glued to their phone on someone else's prescribed schedule.

    The strategy seems very similar to someone who pays to have access to toons right away, not everyone agrees with it, not every is capable to do it, but it still exists and is a valid strategy.

    It's not an overwhelming strategy that will always lead to a win. If you place teams that cant be beat 4v5 or less than it's all about game play. Over coming strategy with strategy should be the goal, not making changes to not allow someone to take advantages of a weakness in a roster.
  • Kyno
    20556 posts Moderator
    Just want to add that, unless a player is losing every match by less than 10 banners, this change wouldnt mean anything. Winning with a team of 4 nets you 1(or 2) more banner(s), but could be costing the player as much with less change of a full health/protection banners.

    I know people are winning/losing by this close a margin, but not roughly 1/3 of the players are.

    [1/3 being the rough section of the players that would have GA ending while they should be sleeping, assuming an 8 hour sleep period]
  • TVF
    12653 posts Member
    I guess you're right that it's a choice not to get up at 2am to play the chicken game while your opponent makes the same decision at 7pm, but that hardly seems fair.

    There's a reason they finally let people change their payout times.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Everyone has the same opportunity, but may not make the personal choice to take advantage of that startegy. Some will have work some will want to sleep, and others will just choose to have lives and not be glued to their phone on someone else's prescribed schedule.

    The strategy seems very similar to someone who pays to have access to toons right away, not everyone agrees with it, not every is capable to do it, but it still exists and is a valid strategy.

    It's not an overwhelming strategy that will always lead to a win. If you place teams that cant be beat 4v5 or less than it's all about game play. Over coming strategy with strategy should be the goal, not making changes to not allow someone to take advantages of a weakness in a roster.

    Claiming everyone has the same opportunity because anyone can wake up in the middle of the night is ridiculous. Let's make all the phases of GA last one hour each -- everyone has the exact same opportunity to participate! -- just because you don't live in what becomes the preferred time zone is irrelevant, right? There would actually be the "same" opportunity if the GA schedule advanced an hour each time, because ultimately everyone will have x number of GAs that occur when they sleep. Barring something like that, it's not an equal opportunity.
  • Liath
    3733 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Everyone has the same opportunity, but may not make the personal choice to take advantage of that startegy. Some will have work some will want to sleep, and others will just choose to have lives and not be glued to their phone on someone else's prescribed schedule.

    The strategy seems very similar to someone who pays to have access to toons right away, not everyone agrees with it, not every is capable to do it, but it still exists and is a valid strategy.

    It's not an overwhelming strategy that will always lead to a win. If you place teams that cant be beat 4v5 or less than it's all about game play. Over coming strategy with strategy should be the goal, not making changes to not allow someone to take advantages of a weakness in a roster.

    Claiming everyone has the same opportunity because anyone can wake up in the middle of the night is ridiculous. Let's make all the phases of GA last one hour each -- everyone has the exact same opportunity to participate! -- just because you don't live in what becomes the preferred time zone is irrelevant, right? There would actually be the "same" opportunity if the GA schedule advanced an hour each time, because ultimately everyone will have x number of GAs that occur when they sleep. Barring something like that, it's not an equal opportunity.

    Not true!!! Some of us sleep more than other people!!!!!!!!! (Or wish we could...)
  • Kyno
    20556 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Everyone has the same opportunity, but may not make the personal choice to take advantage of that startegy. Some will have work some will want to sleep, and others will just choose to have lives and not be glued to their phone on someone else's prescribed schedule.

    The strategy seems very similar to someone who pays to have access to toons right away, not everyone agrees with it, not every is capable to do it, but it still exists and is a valid strategy.

    It's not an overwhelming strategy that will always lead to a win. If you place teams that cant be beat 4v5 or less than it's all about game play. Over coming strategy with strategy should be the goal, not making changes to not allow someone to take advantages of a weakness in a roster.

    Claiming everyone has the same opportunity because anyone can wake up in the middle of the night is ridiculous. Let's make all the phases of GA last one hour each -- everyone has the exact same opportunity to participate! -- just because you don't live in what becomes the preferred time zone is irrelevant, right? There would actually be the "same" opportunity if the GA schedule advanced an hour each time, because ultimately everyone will have x number of GAs that occur when they sleep. Barring something like that, it's not an equal opportunity.

    Sure it's a bit of a stretch, but it's not ridiculous.

    Many people live on different timelines of the day, so there is no telling how many people this actually effects.

    But either way, this strategy is not something that can't be overcome with a better defense and is in no way guaranteeing a win.

    The change doesnt change that. I cant think of any other events in RL that hide the score to not allow one side or the other to strategize a victory with this type if plan. And yes there are sports where this exact situation plays out, the other team has full control and just has to make the minimum points to win the game. So it seems reasonable to leave this strategy in place and try to provide a better defense to make it a moote point vs changing the visibility of the scores. Also having the time of the event change doesnt sound like a bad idea either.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Everyone has the same opportunity, but may not make the personal choice to take advantage of that startegy. Some will have work some will want to sleep, and others will just choose to have lives and not be glued to their phone on someone else's prescribed schedule.

    The strategy seems very similar to someone who pays to have access to toons right away, not everyone agrees with it, not every is capable to do it, but it still exists and is a valid strategy.

    It's not an overwhelming strategy that will always lead to a win. If you place teams that cant be beat 4v5 or less than it's all about game play. Over coming strategy with strategy should be the goal, not making changes to not allow someone to take advantages of a weakness in a roster.

    Claiming everyone has the same opportunity because anyone can wake up in the middle of the night is ridiculous. Let's make all the phases of GA last one hour each -- everyone has the exact same opportunity to participate! -- just because you don't live in what becomes the preferred time zone is irrelevant, right? There would actually be the "same" opportunity if the GA schedule advanced an hour each time, because ultimately everyone will have x number of GAs that occur when they sleep. Barring something like that, it's not an equal opportunity.

    Sure it's a bit of a stretch, but it's not ridiculous.

    Many people live on different timelines of the day, so there is no telling how many people this actually effects.

    But either way, this strategy is not something that can't be overcome with a better defense and is in no way guaranteeing a win.

    The change doesnt change that. I cant think of any other events in RL that hide the score to not allow one side or the other to strategize a victory with this type if plan. And yes there are sports where this exact situation plays out, the other team has full control and just has to make the minimum points to win the game. So it seems reasonable to leave this strategy in place and try to provide a better defense to make it a moote point vs changing the visibility of the scores. Also having the time of the event change doesnt sound like a bad idea either.

    No, asking someone to wake up in the middle of the night is ridiculous. Yes, the disadvantage can be overcome. Yes it’s only minor. But it’s still an unfair advantage, and it shouldn’t exist.

    You say this exists in real life sports. Can you point to an example that’s happened recently?
  • Kyno
    20556 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Everyone has the same opportunity, but may not make the personal choice to take advantage of that startegy. Some will have work some will want to sleep, and others will just choose to have lives and not be glued to their phone on someone else's prescribed schedule.

    The strategy seems very similar to someone who pays to have access to toons right away, not everyone agrees with it, not every is capable to do it, but it still exists and is a valid strategy.

    It's not an overwhelming strategy that will always lead to a win. If you place teams that cant be beat 4v5 or less than it's all about game play. Over coming strategy with strategy should be the goal, not making changes to not allow someone to take advantages of a weakness in a roster.

    Claiming everyone has the same opportunity because anyone can wake up in the middle of the night is ridiculous. Let's make all the phases of GA last one hour each -- everyone has the exact same opportunity to participate! -- just because you don't live in what becomes the preferred time zone is irrelevant, right? There would actually be the "same" opportunity if the GA schedule advanced an hour each time, because ultimately everyone will have x number of GAs that occur when they sleep. Barring something like that, it's not an equal opportunity.

    Sure it's a bit of a stretch, but it's not ridiculous.

    Many people live on different timelines of the day, so there is no telling how many people this actually effects.

    But either way, this strategy is not something that can't be overcome with a better defense and is in no way guaranteeing a win.

    The change doesnt change that. I cant think of any other events in RL that hide the score to not allow one side or the other to strategize a victory with this type if plan. And yes there are sports where this exact situation plays out, the other team has full control and just has to make the minimum points to win the game. So it seems reasonable to leave this strategy in place and try to provide a better defense to make it a moote point vs changing the visibility of the scores. Also having the time of the event change doesnt sound like a bad idea either.

    No, asking someone to wake up in the middle of the night is ridiculous. Yes, the disadvantage can be overcome. Yes it’s only minor. But it’s still an unfair advantage, and it shouldn’t exist.

    You say this exists in real life sports. Can you point to an example that’s happened recently?

    Any football game where the score difference is less than 3 points, and the opponent has the ball in the last 2(ish) minutes of the game. This type of final startegy to run down the clock before scoring the winning kick and not needing a TD.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Everyone has the same opportunity, but may not make the personal choice to take advantage of that startegy. Some will have work some will want to sleep, and others will just choose to have lives and not be glued to their phone on someone else's prescribed schedule.

    The strategy seems very similar to someone who pays to have access to toons right away, not everyone agrees with it, not every is capable to do it, but it still exists and is a valid strategy.

    It's not an overwhelming strategy that will always lead to a win. If you place teams that cant be beat 4v5 or less than it's all about game play. Over coming strategy with strategy should be the goal, not making changes to not allow someone to take advantages of a weakness in a roster.

    Claiming everyone has the same opportunity because anyone can wake up in the middle of the night is ridiculous. Let's make all the phases of GA last one hour each -- everyone has the exact same opportunity to participate! -- just because you don't live in what becomes the preferred time zone is irrelevant, right? There would actually be the "same" opportunity if the GA schedule advanced an hour each time, because ultimately everyone will have x number of GAs that occur when they sleep. Barring something like that, it's not an equal opportunity.

    Sure it's a bit of a stretch, but it's not ridiculous.

    Many people live on different timelines of the day, so there is no telling how many people this actually effects.

    But either way, this strategy is not something that can't be overcome with a better defense and is in no way guaranteeing a win.

    The change doesnt change that. I cant think of any other events in RL that hide the score to not allow one side or the other to strategize a victory with this type if plan. And yes there are sports where this exact situation plays out, the other team has full control and just has to make the minimum points to win the game. So it seems reasonable to leave this strategy in place and try to provide a better defense to make it a moote point vs changing the visibility of the scores. Also having the time of the event change doesnt sound like a bad idea either.

    No, asking someone to wake up in the middle of the night is ridiculous. Yes, the disadvantage can be overcome. Yes it’s only minor. But it’s still an unfair advantage, and it shouldn’t exist.

    You say this exists in real life sports. Can you point to an example that’s happened recently?

    Any football game where the score difference is less than 3 points, and the opponent has the ball in the last 2(ish) minutes of the game. This type of final startegy to run down the clock before scoring the winning kick and not needing a TD.

    That’s not an unfair rule that benefits one team over the other prior to the game even beginning. Having a last possession is simply the result of way the game goes, and it can be equally influenced by the teams on the field.
  • Kyno
    20556 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Everyone has the same opportunity, but may not make the personal choice to take advantage of that startegy. Some will have work some will want to sleep, and others will just choose to have lives and not be glued to their phone on someone else's prescribed schedule.

    The strategy seems very similar to someone who pays to have access to toons right away, not everyone agrees with it, not every is capable to do it, but it still exists and is a valid strategy.

    It's not an overwhelming strategy that will always lead to a win. If you place teams that cant be beat 4v5 or less than it's all about game play. Over coming strategy with strategy should be the goal, not making changes to not allow someone to take advantages of a weakness in a roster.

    Claiming everyone has the same opportunity because anyone can wake up in the middle of the night is ridiculous. Let's make all the phases of GA last one hour each -- everyone has the exact same opportunity to participate! -- just because you don't live in what becomes the preferred time zone is irrelevant, right? There would actually be the "same" opportunity if the GA schedule advanced an hour each time, because ultimately everyone will have x number of GAs that occur when they sleep. Barring something like that, it's not an equal opportunity.

    Sure it's a bit of a stretch, but it's not ridiculous.

    Many people live on different timelines of the day, so there is no telling how many people this actually effects.

    But either way, this strategy is not something that can't be overcome with a better defense and is in no way guaranteeing a win.

    The change doesnt change that. I cant think of any other events in RL that hide the score to not allow one side or the other to strategize a victory with this type if plan. And yes there are sports where this exact situation plays out, the other team has full control and just has to make the minimum points to win the game. So it seems reasonable to leave this strategy in place and try to provide a better defense to make it a moote point vs changing the visibility of the scores. Also having the time of the event change doesnt sound like a bad idea either.

    No, asking someone to wake up in the middle of the night is ridiculous. Yes, the disadvantage can be overcome. Yes it’s only minor. But it’s still an unfair advantage, and it shouldn’t exist.

    You say this exists in real life sports. Can you point to an example that’s happened recently?

    Also no one is asking anyone to do anything, if they feel it is such an advantage, they have the option, it's not in anyway prevented or withheld from them.

    It's not worth it, which is why it sounds ridiculous.
  • Liath
    3733 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Everyone has the same opportunity, but may not make the personal choice to take advantage of that startegy. Some will have work some will want to sleep, and others will just choose to have lives and not be glued to their phone on someone else's prescribed schedule.

    The strategy seems very similar to someone who pays to have access to toons right away, not everyone agrees with it, not every is capable to do it, but it still exists and is a valid strategy.

    It's not an overwhelming strategy that will always lead to a win. If you place teams that cant be beat 4v5 or less than it's all about game play. Over coming strategy with strategy should be the goal, not making changes to not allow someone to take advantages of a weakness in a roster.

    Claiming everyone has the same opportunity because anyone can wake up in the middle of the night is ridiculous. Let's make all the phases of GA last one hour each -- everyone has the exact same opportunity to participate! -- just because you don't live in what becomes the preferred time zone is irrelevant, right? There would actually be the "same" opportunity if the GA schedule advanced an hour each time, because ultimately everyone will have x number of GAs that occur when they sleep. Barring something like that, it's not an equal opportunity.

    Sure it's a bit of a stretch, but it's not ridiculous.

    Many people live on different timelines of the day, so there is no telling how many people this actually effects.

    But either way, this strategy is not something that can't be overcome with a better defense and is in no way guaranteeing a win.

    The change doesnt change that. I cant think of any other events in RL that hide the score to not allow one side or the other to strategize a victory with this type if plan. And yes there are sports where this exact situation plays out, the other team has full control and just has to make the minimum points to win the game. So it seems reasonable to leave this strategy in place and try to provide a better defense to make it a moote point vs changing the visibility of the scores. Also having the time of the event change doesnt sound like a bad idea either.

    No, asking someone to wake up in the middle of the night is ridiculous. Yes, the disadvantage can be overcome. Yes it’s only minor. But it’s still an unfair advantage, and it shouldn’t exist.

    You say this exists in real life sports. Can you point to an example that’s happened recently?

    Any football game where the score difference is less than 3 points, and the opponent has the ball in the last 2(ish) minutes of the game. This type of final startegy to run down the clock before scoring the winning kick and not needing a TD.

    That’s not an unfair rule that benefits one team over the other prior to the game even beginning. Having a last possession is simply the result of way the game goes, and it can be equally influenced by the teams on the field.

    I think there are olympic events that take place one person/team at a time and are scored as you go along where something similar to this happens, at least in theory. I don't know whether there are any examples of somebody making a choice that would affect the outcome based on knowing the score to beat going in though.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Everyone has the same opportunity, but may not make the personal choice to take advantage of that startegy. Some will have work some will want to sleep, and others will just choose to have lives and not be glued to their phone on someone else's prescribed schedule.

    The strategy seems very similar to someone who pays to have access to toons right away, not everyone agrees with it, not every is capable to do it, but it still exists and is a valid strategy.

    It's not an overwhelming strategy that will always lead to a win. If you place teams that cant be beat 4v5 or less than it's all about game play. Over coming strategy with strategy should be the goal, not making changes to not allow someone to take advantages of a weakness in a roster.

    Claiming everyone has the same opportunity because anyone can wake up in the middle of the night is ridiculous. Let's make all the phases of GA last one hour each -- everyone has the exact same opportunity to participate! -- just because you don't live in what becomes the preferred time zone is irrelevant, right? There would actually be the "same" opportunity if the GA schedule advanced an hour each time, because ultimately everyone will have x number of GAs that occur when they sleep. Barring something like that, it's not an equal opportunity.

    Sure it's a bit of a stretch, but it's not ridiculous.

    Many people live on different timelines of the day, so there is no telling how many people this actually effects.

    But either way, this strategy is not something that can't be overcome with a better defense and is in no way guaranteeing a win.

    The change doesnt change that. I cant think of any other events in RL that hide the score to not allow one side or the other to strategize a victory with this type if plan. And yes there are sports where this exact situation plays out, the other team has full control and just has to make the minimum points to win the game. So it seems reasonable to leave this strategy in place and try to provide a better defense to make it a moote point vs changing the visibility of the scores. Also having the time of the event change doesnt sound like a bad idea either.

    No, asking someone to wake up in the middle of the night is ridiculous. Yes, the disadvantage can be overcome. Yes it’s only minor. But it’s still an unfair advantage, and it shouldn’t exist.

    You say this exists in real life sports. Can you point to an example that’s happened recently?

    Also no one is asking anyone to do anything, if they feel it is such an advantage, they have the option, it's not in anyway prevented or withheld from them.

    Repeating this over and over again doesn’t make it any less false. The entire reason for this thread is that not everyone has the option.
  • Liath wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Everyone has the same opportunity, but may not make the personal choice to take advantage of that startegy. Some will have work some will want to sleep, and others will just choose to have lives and not be glued to their phone on someone else's prescribed schedule.

    The strategy seems very similar to someone who pays to have access to toons right away, not everyone agrees with it, not every is capable to do it, but it still exists and is a valid strategy.

    It's not an overwhelming strategy that will always lead to a win. If you place teams that cant be beat 4v5 or less than it's all about game play. Over coming strategy with strategy should be the goal, not making changes to not allow someone to take advantages of a weakness in a roster.

    Claiming everyone has the same opportunity because anyone can wake up in the middle of the night is ridiculous. Let's make all the phases of GA last one hour each -- everyone has the exact same opportunity to participate! -- just because you don't live in what becomes the preferred time zone is irrelevant, right? There would actually be the "same" opportunity if the GA schedule advanced an hour each time, because ultimately everyone will have x number of GAs that occur when they sleep. Barring something like that, it's not an equal opportunity.

    Sure it's a bit of a stretch, but it's not ridiculous.

    Many people live on different timelines of the day, so there is no telling how many people this actually effects.

    But either way, this strategy is not something that can't be overcome with a better defense and is in no way guaranteeing a win.

    The change doesnt change that. I cant think of any other events in RL that hide the score to not allow one side or the other to strategize a victory with this type if plan. And yes there are sports where this exact situation plays out, the other team has full control and just has to make the minimum points to win the game. So it seems reasonable to leave this strategy in place and try to provide a better defense to make it a moote point vs changing the visibility of the scores. Also having the time of the event change doesnt sound like a bad idea either.

    No, asking someone to wake up in the middle of the night is ridiculous. Yes, the disadvantage can be overcome. Yes it’s only minor. But it’s still an unfair advantage, and it shouldn’t exist.

    You say this exists in real life sports. Can you point to an example that’s happened recently?

    Any football game where the score difference is less than 3 points, and the opponent has the ball in the last 2(ish) minutes of the game. This type of final startegy to run down the clock before scoring the winning kick and not needing a TD.

    That’s not an unfair rule that benefits one team over the other prior to the game even beginning. Having a last possession is simply the result of way the game goes, and it can be equally influenced by the teams on the field.

    I think there are olympic events that take place one person/team at a time and are scored as you go along where something similar to this happens, at least in theory. I don't know whether there are any examples of somebody making a choice that would affect the outcome based on knowing the score to beat going in though.

    The only thing I can think of is something scored on difficulty of tricks, like diving or snowboarding. But the person going last is the person with the high score the previous round, so they earned that advantage. It’s not random luck.
  • TVF wrote: »
    Go for max banners every time. Problem solved. No hiding scores.

    So you clear the board right out of the gate every time with a single toon?

    No. But that should be what you're striving for. Full clear with as few teams as possible.
    Ally Code 766-465-766 swgoh.gg/u/trystansr/collection/
  • TVF
    12653 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Go for max banners every time. Problem solved. No hiding scores.

    So you clear the board right out of the gate every time with a single toon?

    No. But that should be what you're striving for. Full clear with as few teams as possible.

    I'm striving to be a millionaire but I have a backup plan.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    No. But that should be what you're striving for. Full clear with as few teams as possible.

    I'm striving to be a millionaire but I have a backup plan.[/quote]

    @TVF Lotto tickets aren't a valid retirement strategy...
    Ally Code 766-465-766 swgoh.gg/u/trystansr/collection/
  • TVF
    12653 posts Member
    edited January 7
    @TVF Lotto tickets aren't a valid retirement strategy...

    Neither is clearing everything first shot with two toons.
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Go for max banners every time. Problem solved. No hiding scores.

    This advice misunderstands the problem. Suppose you can go in to your final attack with a five-toon squad, and have a 75% chance of earning the max score of 60 banners. Or you can go in with a three-toon squad, and have a 10% chance of earning the max score of 62 banners.

    The way I interpret your advice, you’d always choose the former strategy, since it has the higher expected value.

    The problem is when you’re down 61 banners, and you HAVE to get 62 to win. It doesn’t matter that playing conservative will maximize your expected number of banners. Taking the risky strategy is the only way you have any chance at all to WIN. And the only way you get to make this calculation is if you can afford to wait until the other guy has played out all his attacks.

    In other words, yeah, displaying scores gives a slight advantage to the player who can wait until the last minute to attack.
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
  • Kyno
    20556 posts Moderator
    Go for max banners every time. Problem solved. No hiding scores.

    This advice misunderstands the problem. Suppose you can go in to your final attack with a five-toon squad, and have a 75% chance of earning the max score of 60 banners. Or you can go in with a three-toon squad, and have a 10% chance of earning the max score of 62 banners.

    The way I interpret your advice, you’d always choose the former strategy, since it has the higher expected value.

    The problem is when you’re down 61 banners, and you HAVE to get 62 to win. It doesn’t matter that playing conservative will maximize your expected number of banners. Taking the risky strategy is the only way you have any chance at all to WIN. And the only way you get to make this calculation is if you can afford to wait until the other guy has played out all his attacks.

    In other words, yeah, displaying scores gives a slight advantage to the player who can wait until the last minute to attack.

    But it's not really an advantage, it's a calculated risk. Yes he may know he needs to do it to win, but its doesnt make it easier to win the battle.

    This is why it's a strategy and not an advantage. Both sides could play this way (without waiting) as he is suggesting. Just by always going for maximum points, with no regard for the "ever present risk".
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Go for max banners every time. Problem solved. No hiding scores.

    This advice misunderstands the problem. Suppose you can go in to your final attack with a five-toon squad, and have a 75% chance of earning the max score of 60 banners. Or you can go in with a three-toon squad, and have a 10% chance of earning the max score of 62 banners.

    The way I interpret your advice, you’d always choose the former strategy, since it has the higher expected value.

    The problem is when you’re down 61 banners, and you HAVE to get 62 to win. It doesn’t matter that playing conservative will maximize your expected number of banners. Taking the risky strategy is the only way you have any chance at all to WIN. And the only way you get to make this calculation is if you can afford to wait until the other guy has played out all his attacks.

    In other words, yeah, displaying scores gives a slight advantage to the player who can wait until the last minute to attack.

    But it's not really an advantage, it's a calculated risk. Yes he may know he needs to do it to win, but its doesnt make it easier to win the battle.

    This is why it's a strategy and not an advantage. Both sides could play this way (without waiting) as he is suggesting. Just by always going for maximum points, with no regard for the "ever present risk".

    It’s a strategy, sure. But if only one player has the realistic ability to implement the strategy because of a time zone disparity, that’s an advantage.

    Personally, I’d expect the advantage to be quite small and probably not worth worrying about. But it is an advantage.
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
  • Kyno
    20556 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Go for max banners every time. Problem solved. No hiding scores.

    This advice misunderstands the problem. Suppose you can go in to your final attack with a five-toon squad, and have a 75% chance of earning the max score of 60 banners. Or you can go in with a three-toon squad, and have a 10% chance of earning the max score of 62 banners.

    The way I interpret your advice, you’d always choose the former strategy, since it has the higher expected value.

    The problem is when you’re down 61 banners, and you HAVE to get 62 to win. It doesn’t matter that playing conservative will maximize your expected number of banners. Taking the risky strategy is the only way you have any chance at all to WIN. And the only way you get to make this calculation is if you can afford to wait until the other guy has played out all his attacks.

    In other words, yeah, displaying scores gives a slight advantage to the player who can wait until the last minute to attack.

    But it's not really an advantage, it's a calculated risk. Yes he may know he needs to do it to win, but its doesnt make it easier to win the battle.

    This is why it's a strategy and not an advantage. Both sides could play this way (without waiting) as he is suggesting. Just by always going for maximum points, with no regard for the "ever present risk".

    It’s a strategy, sure. But if only one player has the realistic ability to implement the strategy because of a time zone disparity, that’s an advantage.

    Personally, I’d expect the advantage to be quite small and probably not worth worrying about. But it is an advantage.

    How does it making winning the match a toon (or 2) down easier?

    It doesn't. There is no advantage, just the knowledge that if you dont try you lose. That's not an edge, it's called being painted into a corner.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Go for max banners every time. Problem solved. No hiding scores.

    This advice misunderstands the problem. Suppose you can go in to your final attack with a five-toon squad, and have a 75% chance of earning the max score of 60 banners. Or you can go in with a three-toon squad, and have a 10% chance of earning the max score of 62 banners.

    The way I interpret your advice, you’d always choose the former strategy, since it has the higher expected value.

    The problem is when you’re down 61 banners, and you HAVE to get 62 to win. It doesn’t matter that playing conservative will maximize your expected number of banners. Taking the risky strategy is the only way you have any chance at all to WIN. And the only way you get to make this calculation is if you can afford to wait until the other guy has played out all his attacks.

    In other words, yeah, displaying scores gives a slight advantage to the player who can wait until the last minute to attack.

    But it's not really an advantage, it's a calculated risk. Yes he may know he needs to do it to win, but its doesnt make it easier to win the battle.

    This is why it's a strategy and not an advantage. Both sides could play this way (without waiting) as he is suggesting. Just by always going for maximum points, with no regard for the "ever present risk".

    It’s a strategy, sure. But if only one player has the realistic ability to implement the strategy because of a time zone disparity, that’s an advantage.

    Personally, I’d expect the advantage to be quite small and probably not worth worrying about. But it is an advantage.

    How does it making winning the match a toon (or 2) down easier?

    It doesn't. There is no advantage, just the knowledge that if you dont try you lose. That's not an edge, it's called being painted into a corner.

    The advantage is the knowledge that you’re painted into a corner. Only the side that attacks last can know this. I don’t know how much more obvious this could be.
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
  • Think of it this way: if you had a way of guaranteeing that your football team would have the final possession in all of its games all season long, wouldn’t that be an advantage?
    I demand Grand Arena Elo ratings.
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