Honestly, regardless of timing, the zeta is so drastically different that it should be refunded. There's not a lot that needs to be said about it other than that, really. Plus, there's precedent, set by the Zombie changes.
to be honest, i never understood the daka refund. Why daka, but not asajj? Both benefited from paper zombi.
The only reason i can come up with is that asajj's zeta remained usefull outside of raids where as daka's wasn't that usefull outside of raids to begin with. So assuming everyone only zeta'd daka for the raids, they felt like a refund was warrented.
Same logic could be applied to finn if he, like asajj, doesn't get a refund.
Obviously with finn it still becomes an entirely different ability, so neither asajj, daka or barriss are 1on1 comparable.
To me it's irrelevant whether the change is big or small, unless the change is only adding and not subtracting or changing things drastically then it does justify a refund. If for example they reworked R2 number crunch to give 20% potency instead of 10 I'm sure people wouldn't want a refund because that's clearly an improvement, but if let's say they changed it to only give bonuses to droid allies instead of rebels, resistance and republic also then it would clearly warrant a refund.
I mean if new Finn is so great, then I'm sure offering a refund would do nothing since most players would want to keep it right? The thing is that they know that most people won't be keeping it and most people don't find it to be a good change. So basically they are forcing us to accept a bad change under the premise that it's a good one
Honestly, regardless of timing, the zeta is so drastically different that it should be refunded. There's not a lot that needs to be said about it other than that, really. Plus, there's precedent, set by the Zombie changes.
to be honest, i never understood the daka refund. Why daka, but not asajj? Both benefited from paper zombi.
The only reason i can come up with is that asajj's zeta remained usefull outside of raids where as daka's wasn't that usefull outside of raids to begin with. So assuming everyone only zeta'd daka for the raids, they felt like a refund was warrented.
Same logic could be applied to finn if he, like asajj, doesn't get a refund.
Obviously with finn it still becomes an entirely different ability, so neither asajj, daka or barriss are 1on1 comparable.
To me it's irrelevant whether the change is big or small, unless the change is only adding and not subtracting or changing things drastically then it does justify a refund. If for example they reworked R2 number crunch to give 20% potency instead of 10 I'm sure people wouldn't want a refund because that's clearly an improvement, but if let's say they changed it to only give bonuses to droid allies instead of rebels, resistance and republic also then it would clearly warrant a refund.
I mean if new Finn is so great, then I'm sure offering a refund would do nothing since most players would want to keep it right? The thing is that they know that most people won't be keeping it and most people don't find it to be a good change. So basically they are forcing us to accept a bad change under the premise that it's a good one
You basically described why it is in fact relevant whether or not the change is big or small and you ignored pretty much everything i wrote in the comment you quoted.
I'm personally holding off judgement on the new finn untill i've had a chance to play with him. Obviously he's going to be worse for raids, but that's the whole point and in no way warrants a refund seeying as they announced they would "fix" it as soon as it was discovered. The question remains whether or not he's still as usefull outside of raids.
Now i understand that some people want a refund regardless because his zeta ability changed, i just don't share that opinion. I also understand if they won't refund if his zeta is still as usefull. If it's bad after the rework, then i do not understand why they won't refund him.
I would rather not see a refund because it promotes "exploits". (Throw a zeta on finn so you can do some maximum exploiting because you'll be refunded anyway) It would suck for players who zeta'd him for something other than the raid loop, but didn't have alot of time to enjoy it, other than that i don't see alot of (imo valid) reasons to complain.
Simple: if they can go back through logs and see who earned shards of X on an individual player basis even down to the time of day, then I'm sure they can go back and see who Zeta'd Finn prior to or post-C3PO interaction exploit.
Don't benefit people who exploited a known bug by giving them back the resources they used to accomplish it. Like @leef said above; it sets a negative precedent that you can just do whatever glitch occurs next knowing full well you can just complain and get your resources back. The game warns you if you want to spend the zeta for a reason.
If it becomes as simple as "make enough noise and get it refunded" then the whole point of it being a resource management game is lost.
Instead of a blanket refund for all, give the people who Zeta'd him prior to 3PO the option of requesting a refund via submitting a ticket. But only after his new kit is released and has, for example, a week of use amongst the player base. Kind of a "if you STILL want the refund, then I guess so" option.
I'll probably be the first to come out and say this: I zeta'd Finn right after C-3P0 came out, making it one of my later zetas. I didn't zeta him for the C-3P0 loop in HSTR. I heard it was a fun zeta, so I tried it out and loved it. After reading the updated kit, I was hyped to try something new, but still a little apprehensive. However, I remain optimistic about this new update, but I'll take it with a grain of salt.
I'll probably be the first to come out and say this: I zeta'd Finn right after C-3P0 came out, making it one of my later zetas. I didn't zeta him for the C-3P0 loop in HSTR. I heard it was a fun zeta, so I tried it out and loved it. After reading the updated kit, I was hyped to try something new, but still a little apprehensive. However, I remain optimistic about this new update, but I'll take it with a grain of salt.
According to some of the people here you're one of the two: 1. Un-informed
Or 2. You were planning to take advantage of an exploitive loop.
Of course they forget or purposely look away at the 3rd possibility which is actually what happened, you're a person who wanted to have fun using his latest character and do what everyone was doing. You had no malicious intent and you never planned to take advantage of loops. You saw a powerful character and zeta that looked perfect for it and you took it without knowing that it was going to cause problems in raids. Of course it isn't your job to worry about those things no matter how obvious they might be, that's the responsibility of the devs who decided to release that characters. It was THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to test them extensively before they released them.
I wonder if there is still anyone who thinks that you don't deserve a refund for this...
If there is going to be any refund, CG will refund all like the case with Barris zeta and Daka zeta. no need to open a ticket for this. Original question answered.
And besides, they've stated they're not giving any refunds for Finn.
I'll probably be the first to come out and say this: I zeta'd Finn right after C-3P0 came out, making it one of my later zetas. I didn't zeta him for the C-3P0 loop in HSTR. I heard it was a fun zeta, so I tried it out and loved it. After reading the updated kit, I was hyped to try something new, but still a little apprehensive. However, I remain optimistic about this new update, but I'll take it with a grain of salt.
According to some of the people here you're one of the two: 1. Un-informed
Or 2. You were planning to take advantage of an exploitive loop.
Of course they forget or purposely look away at the 3rd possibility which is actually what happened, you're a person who wanted to have fun using his latest character and do what everyone was doing. You had no malicious intent and you never planned to take advantage of loops. You saw a powerful character and zeta that looked perfect for it and you took it without knowing that it was going to cause problems in raids. Of course it isn't your job to worry about those things no matter how obvious they might be, that's the responsibility of the devs who decided to release that characters. It was THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to test them extensively before they released them.
I wonder if there is still anyone who thinks that you don't deserve a refund for this...
.... It would suck for players who zeta'd him for something other than the raid loop, but didn't have alot of time to enjoy it, other than that i don't see alot of (imo valid) reasons to complain.
It's a very, very small percentage of players who can honestly say they recently zeta'd finn with no intention to use the raidloop. Sucks for them, but i'd rather have it suck for them than reward the players who zeta'd finn to exploit. It's safe to assume there are alot more of those players wouldn't you say?
I'll probably be the first to come out and say this: I zeta'd Finn right after C-3P0 came out, making it one of my later zetas. I didn't zeta him for the C-3P0 loop in HSTR. I heard it was a fun zeta, so I tried it out and loved it. After reading the updated kit, I was hyped to try something new, but still a little apprehensive. However, I remain optimistic about this new update, but I'll take it with a grain of salt.
According to some of the people here you're one of the two: 1. Un-informed
Or 2. You were planning to take advantage of an exploitive loop.
Of course they forget or purposely look away at the 3rd possibility which is actually what happened, you're a person who wanted to have fun using his latest character and do what everyone was doing. You had no malicious intent and you never planned to take advantage of loops. You saw a powerful character and zeta that looked perfect for it and you took it without knowing that it was going to cause problems in raids. Of course it isn't your job to worry about those things no matter how obvious they might be, that's the responsibility of the devs who decided to release that characters. It was THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to test them extensively before they released them.
I wonder if there is still anyone who thinks that you don't deserve a refund for this...
.... It would suck for players who zeta'd him for something other than the raid loop, but didn't have alot of time to enjoy it, other than that i don't see alot of (imo valid) reasons to complain.
It's a very, very small percentage of players who can honestly say they recently zeta'd finn with no intention to use the raidloop. Sucks for them, but i'd rather have it suck for them than reward the players who zeta'd finn to exploit. It's safe to assume there are alot more of those players wouldn't you say?
The thing is that it's not the player's responsibility to test things, that's the dev's responsibility and they keep failing at it. They release characters with ridiculous potential and they wait for the community to figure out how to break the game with them and then they hit them with the nerf hammer. This finds many innocent players punished for bad reasons.
I'm sorry but if it made sense to change anyone it was 3PO or Traya(boss). They've known Finn gets loopy runs for years now and they seemed fine with it so far. The thing is I and many others have a zeta now that used to be very useful and now it's useless, that's kind of important. When you decided to turn something useful into something useless without the user's permission then offering a refund seems to be the only reasonable thing to do.
First, you're assuming it's useless. Have you used it yet?
Second, we all know they should have changed Traya or C3PO, but this is how they chose to address the current loop/glitch. Same problem with the Acolyte issue. You needed your own 7* Traya to pull it off yet let's penalize everyone who wants a 7* Traya and runs NS instead.
Their track record for properly fixing things and in a timely manner is very poor. That being said, I'm willing to still wait and see what people can theory craft with the new zFinn before I declare it a resounding failure and destruction.
Second, we all know they should have changed Traya or C3PO, but this is how they chose to address the current loop/glitch.
We don't all know this. Changing Finn was the right move, because the interaction wasn't limited to the raid. If they changed the raid instead of Finn, they would have to build in bonus move mechanics into every future OP character.
And, good or not, amount of use aside, the zeta should be refunded.
Notice I also said OR C3PO? There were three possible solutions: change Finn, change P3 Traya, or change their new cash cow (at the time).
Changing Traya would have produced the largest issue for entire guilds as it would have trickle down changes to many other teams.
Changing C3PO would have left Finn alone. His Zeta would be un-touched and people would have been less up in arms about a brand new character getting a slight change in mechanics than one they have been using as intended for ages.
Moving on though, they've already said it ain't getting refunded, and I agree with that. I'm out.
Replies
To me it's irrelevant whether the change is big or small, unless the change is only adding and not subtracting or changing things drastically then it does justify a refund. If for example they reworked R2 number crunch to give 20% potency instead of 10 I'm sure people wouldn't want a refund because that's clearly an improvement, but if let's say they changed it to only give bonuses to droid allies instead of rebels, resistance and republic also then it would clearly warrant a refund.
I mean if new Finn is so great, then I'm sure offering a refund would do nothing since most players would want to keep it right? The thing is that they know that most people won't be keeping it and most people don't find it to be a good change. So basically they are forcing us to accept a bad change under the premise that it's a good one
You basically described why it is in fact relevant whether or not the change is big or small and you ignored pretty much everything i wrote in the comment you quoted.
I'm personally holding off judgement on the new finn untill i've had a chance to play with him. Obviously he's going to be worse for raids, but that's the whole point and in no way warrants a refund seeying as they announced they would "fix" it as soon as it was discovered. The question remains whether or not he's still as usefull outside of raids.
Now i understand that some people want a refund regardless because his zeta ability changed, i just don't share that opinion. I also understand if they won't refund if his zeta is still as usefull. If it's bad after the rework, then i do not understand why they won't refund him.
I would rather not see a refund because it promotes "exploits". (Throw a zeta on finn so you can do some maximum exploiting because you'll be refunded anyway) It would suck for players who zeta'd him for something other than the raid loop, but didn't have alot of time to enjoy it, other than that i don't see alot of (imo valid) reasons to complain.
Don't benefit people who exploited a known bug by giving them back the resources they used to accomplish it. Like @leef said above; it sets a negative precedent that you can just do whatever glitch occurs next knowing full well you can just complain and get your resources back. The game warns you if you want to spend the zeta for a reason.
If it becomes as simple as "make enough noise and get it refunded" then the whole point of it being a resource management game is lost.
Instead of a blanket refund for all, give the people who Zeta'd him prior to 3PO the option of requesting a refund via submitting a ticket. But only after his new kit is released and has, for example, a week of use amongst the player base. Kind of a "if you STILL want the refund, then I guess so" option.
According to some of the people here you're one of the two: 1. Un-informed
Or 2. You were planning to take advantage of an exploitive loop.
Of course they forget or purposely look away at the 3rd possibility which is actually what happened, you're a person who wanted to have fun using his latest character and do what everyone was doing. You had no malicious intent and you never planned to take advantage of loops. You saw a powerful character and zeta that looked perfect for it and you took it without knowing that it was going to cause problems in raids. Of course it isn't your job to worry about those things no matter how obvious they might be, that's the responsibility of the devs who decided to release that characters. It was THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to test them extensively before they released them.
I wonder if there is still anyone who thinks that you don't deserve a refund for this...
And besides, they've stated they're not giving any refunds for Finn.
It's a very, very small percentage of players who can honestly say they recently zeta'd finn with no intention to use the raidloop. Sucks for them, but i'd rather have it suck for them than reward the players who zeta'd finn to exploit. It's safe to assume there are alot more of those players wouldn't you say?
The thing is that it's not the player's responsibility to test things, that's the dev's responsibility and they keep failing at it. They release characters with ridiculous potential and they wait for the community to figure out how to break the game with them and then they hit them with the nerf hammer. This finds many innocent players punished for bad reasons.
I'm sorry but if it made sense to change anyone it was 3PO or Traya(boss). They've known Finn gets loopy runs for years now and they seemed fine with it so far. The thing is I and many others have a zeta now that used to be very useful and now it's useless, that's kind of important. When you decided to turn something useful into something useless without the user's permission then offering a refund seems to be the only reasonable thing to do.
Second, we all know they should have changed Traya or C3PO, but this is how they chose to address the current loop/glitch. Same problem with the Acolyte issue. You needed your own 7* Traya to pull it off yet let's penalize everyone who wants a 7* Traya and runs NS instead.
Their track record for properly fixing things and in a timely manner is very poor. That being said, I'm willing to still wait and see what people can theory craft with the new zFinn before I declare it a resounding failure and destruction.
We don't all know this. Changing Finn was the right move, because the interaction wasn't limited to the raid. If they changed the raid instead of Finn, they would have to build in bonus move mechanics into every future OP character.
And, good or not, amount of use aside, the zeta should be refunded.
Changing Traya would have produced the largest issue for entire guilds as it would have trickle down changes to many other teams.
Changing C3PO would have left Finn alone. His Zeta would be un-touched and people would have been less up in arms about a brand new character getting a slight change in mechanics than one they have been using as intended for ages.
Moving on though, they've already said it ain't getting refunded, and I agree with that. I'm out.