Are you talking about overall GP or just character GP?
Character as measured by the Discord bot. The other DR/Malak guy I'm facing this round has double the number of 6 dot mods and 24 speed mods 20+ to my 10.
Just curious why you are looking at the discord bot instead of in the game? My understanding is that the discord bot sometimes hasn't updated for certain people for a while. And did you look when the GA started? It's also possible some people have done a lot of gearing in the last few days, but that won't impact the GA.
It seems odd to me because everybody in my grouping is within a few thousand difference in character GP. I could see there being such a big difference at the top GP levels because there might not be enough people to group together too closely, but otherwise that sounds fairly unusual.
Part of my point was not simply overall GP - but those other factors as well (including DR/Malak). Just as an example (and why I prefer the Discord comparison) - here is what it lists for my current match (I'm the one on the left)
G12+5 :: 7 vs 17
6 dot Mods :: 56 vs 107
Speed+10 :: 160 vs 262
Speed+15 :: 45 vs 91
Speed+20 :: 10 vs 24
Off+100 :: 21 vs 33
While I wasn't trying to turn this into a complaint thread (more of a request to simply tighten it up in 3v3) - clearly, the person with 14 more 20+ speed mods has a big advantage. In 3v3 that's 4 entire team's worth. And 50 more 6 dot mods is enough to completely mod out 3 more teams. That's all I'm suggesting. Those differences in 5v5 are at least a little easier to overcome.
For those getting hung up on the GP differences, where I got them from (Discord or in game), whether or not they included fleet (which they didn't) - you're kind of missing the entire point. GP being used (or at least, GP being given to much weight) is likely part of the weakness of the algorithm.
In fact, even if the GP were identical, you can obviously see by the above quote regarding high level mods and gear, that the match up algorithm is flawed if the goal of GA is to get even matches.
I asked about that because your OP made it sound like the basis of your complaint was the 100k GP difference you were alleging between people in the same group. It turns out that your complaint is exactly the same as every other GA matchmaking thread.
Are you talking about overall GP or just character GP?
Character as measured by the Discord bot. The other DR/Malak guy I'm facing this round has double the number of 6 dot mods and 24 speed mods 20+ to my 10.
Just curious why you are looking at the discord bot instead of in the game? My understanding is that the discord bot sometimes hasn't updated for certain people for a while. And did you look when the GA started? It's also possible some people have done a lot of gearing in the last few days, but that won't impact the GA.
It seems odd to me because everybody in my grouping is within a few thousand difference in character GP. I could see there being such a big difference at the top GP levels because there might not be enough people to group together too closely, but otherwise that sounds fairly unusual.
Part of my point was not simply overall GP - but those other factors as well (including DR/Malak). Just as an example (and why I prefer the Discord comparison) - here is what it lists for my current match (I'm the one on the left)
G12+5 :: 7 vs 17
6 dot Mods :: 56 vs 107
Speed+10 :: 160 vs 262
Speed+15 :: 45 vs 91
Speed+20 :: 10 vs 24
Off+100 :: 21 vs 33
While I wasn't trying to turn this into a complaint thread (more of a request to simply tighten it up in 3v3) - clearly, the person with 14 more 20+ speed mods has a big advantage. In 3v3 that's 4 entire team's worth. And 50 more 6 dot mods is enough to completely mod out 3 more teams. That's all I'm suggesting. Those differences in 5v5 are at least a little easier to overcome.
For those getting hung up on the GP differences, where I got them from (Discord or in game), whether or not they included fleet (which they didn't) - you're kind of missing the entire point. GP being used (or at least, GP being given to much weight) is likely part of the weakness of the algorithm.
In fact, even if the GP were identical, you can obviously see by the above quote regarding high level mods and gear, that the match up algorithm is flawed if the goal of GA is to get even matches.
I asked about that because your OP made it sound like the basis of your complaint was the 100k GP difference you were alleging between people in the same group. It turns out that your complaint is exactly the same as every other GA matchmaking thread.
Lol. It's feedback based on imbalances that are exacerbated in smaller team sizes of 3v3. Don't take it personally. If it somehow makes you feel better to call it a "complaint" because you have somehow come to the conclusion that the gear/mod differences outlined above should be in the same grouping, based on a made up and seemingly completely arbitrary number, that's your prerogative.
Apologies if I have hurt anyone's feelings.
I thought the feedback section was for....you know. Feedback.
Everyone just relax....and switch to decaf....or wine.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
After considering the GP question further, it occurred to me that if the GPs are actually clise, despite the large discrepancy in 6 dot mods, speed 20+ mods and g12+4 and g12+5 gear, that's actually where the balance issue stems from.
Because GP then, is not commensurate with actual performance in battles. It's just an arbitrary number that seems to be more reflective of roster size and stars, without being truly reflective of how that roster would perform in "action.". If it was a more accurate metric, then the afore mentioned mods and g12 gear would be more accurately reflected in the GP, as it is those things that are more pertinent to how the roster performs in GA, TW, etc.
That's all in trying to say.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
TL ; DR - 3v3 needs to be more closely balanced than 5v5, because it takes fewer advantages to more drastically affect the outcome when the teams are smaller.
To that end, GP doesn't seem to accurately reflect those advantages - as GP doesn't seem to account strongly enough for the huge jump in performance afforded by 6 star mods, speed 20+ mods and g12+4 and g12+5 (both of which also increase speed and health). In 3v3 it is more difficult to overcome said advantages than in 5v5, where synergies and strategies play a larger role in determining outcome.
Yeah, sorry. I tried to be brief. But coffee happens..
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Honestly though, she is right, this is just the same ol' matchmaking based on GP is bad argument in a new and shiny package.
The whole 3v3 vs 5v5 stuff is just filler. I'm just going out on a limb here and assume that if ea/cg is apparantly able to match 3v3s "even tighter" that pretty much everyone in favour of tighter/more even matchmaking expects the same to happen for 5v5s. So yea..
I'm curious why you only mention mods though, seems to me toons like revan, drevan, traya, malak etc etc have a rather big impact aswell as just having a more focussed roster in general.
Are you talking about overall GP or just character GP?
Character as measured by the Discord bot. The other DR/Malak guy I'm facing this round has double the number of 6 dot mods and 24 speed mods 20+ to my 10.
Just curious why you are looking at the discord bot instead of in the game? My understanding is that the discord bot sometimes hasn't updated for certain people for a while. And did you look when the GA started? It's also possible some people have done a lot of gearing in the last few days, but that won't impact the GA.
It seems odd to me because everybody in my grouping is within a few thousand difference in character GP. I could see there being such a big difference at the top GP levels because there might not be enough people to group together too closely, but otherwise that sounds fairly unusual.
Part of my point was not simply overall GP - but those other factors as well (including DR/Malak). Just as an example (and why I prefer the Discord comparison) - here is what it lists for my current match (I'm the one on the left)
G12+5 :: 7 vs 17
6 dot Mods :: 56 vs 107
Speed+10 :: 160 vs 262
Speed+15 :: 45 vs 91
Speed+20 :: 10 vs 24
Off+100 :: 21 vs 33
While I wasn't trying to turn this into a complaint thread (more of a request to simply tighten it up in 3v3) - clearly, the person with 14 more 20+ speed mods has a big advantage. In 3v3 that's 4 entire team's worth. And 50 more 6 dot mods is enough to completely mod out 3 more teams. That's all I'm suggesting. Those differences in 5v5 are at least a little easier to overcome.
For those getting hung up on the GP differences, where I got them from (Discord or in game), whether or not they included fleet (which they didn't) - you're kind of missing the entire point. GP being used (or at least, GP being given to much weight) is likely part of the weakness of the algorithm.
The point of your first post was, that the 8 players in a 3v3 GA should be within the same tight range of GP as in 5v5 GAs. I still don't believe there's any difference between 3v3 and 5v5 in that regard. I don't believe there's over 100k difference between players. However, feel free to post your evidence.
In fact, even if the GP were identical, you can obviously see by the above quote regarding high level mods and gear, that the match up algorithm is flawed if the goal of GA is to get even matches.
The goal of GA in its current design, is clearly not to create even matches with regards to mods and gear. Hence, there's no flaw in that regard. Since we all battle for the exact same rewards, creating even matches would be unfair and silly in several regards.
Why do you insist that it's not the goal of GA to create even matches?
Did you ever experience an even matchup where all 8 players were even in all aspects and not just even in GP? Did you ever see an official announcement that players would be matched evenly in any other aspect than GP? No? Well, there you go.
And at the same time insist that they must be even based on GP?
That's a fact given by the official announcements back when GA was introduced. It's not something that "I insist".
Those two points are completely contradictory from a logical perspective.
Your logic is flawed.
You are matched with players with approximately the same total/character GP as you, but your rosters may vary greatly in other aspects like amount of high gear characters or high speed mods. What's so contradictory here? Do you even understand the meaning of that word?
First off, it is abundantly clear that you are more interested in "winning" a discussion rather than having one.
It is abundantly clear that your don't have any solid arguments for your position - yet you keep defending it with weak arguments that make no sense, mixed with some personal attacks.
Second, if GP is even, "but your rosters may vary greatly in other aspects like amount of high gear characters or high speed mods." (per your quote) than what exactly is the purpose of GP?
It was never a measure of team/roster strength.
Apparently it measures nothing that actually has any real impact on the outcomes of the battles.
This has been evident for years.
That's the entire point of this feedback.
According to your original post, your point was this and only this:
My point is simply that when you have smaller numbers on teams, the spread in GP has to be lower, in order to keep things competitive.
That's all - just tweak the numbers so that 3v3 GP's are closer together than the acceptable range for 5v5.
Let's finish discussing this - and the fact there there's hardly any difference in GP as it is today - before jumping to the next topic.
Which is to say, that IF GP is the sole factor in determining match ups, but GP doesn't accurately reflect roster strength, then the algorithm needs to be tweaked -
I disagree. Everybody battles for the exact same rewards. Giving players with weak rosters easier match-ups and easier access to top rank rewards than players with strong rosters (of even GP) is silly. Players, who built strong rosters, should benefit. Otherwise the incentive to improve your roster would be gone from GA.
I'm honestly not understanding why this is so confusing.
No confusion here. I simply disagree. However, unlike you, I don't use silly arguments and personal attacks in our discussion (I may respond to them, though)
I keep reading these threads and keep wondering how those who make them miss the point. I understand the point THEY want to make. It basically is "I am at a disadvantage because of the choices I have made and I dont think that's fair".
Would you rather GA matchmaking from your arena shard? (based on when you started the game) You would end up with either very very easy matches playing against very casual players, or get crushed by whales with double your GP.
Would you like them to set up GA so you fight 3 bots instead that copy your exact account and set up defenses based on common teams so you get to fight a mirror match GA everytime?
GA is competative but EA does nothing without a financial reason. So how do they make money from GA? By matchmaking via GP they force those who have played casual and unfocused to confront their weaknesses. If that motivates them to spend to catch up, mission accomplished. If that motivates them to quit? They weren't a spender anyways so who cares?
So what will YOU do? Keep asking for matchmaking changes in GA because you dont think its fair that someone with equal GP has trained harder and farmed smarter to have that roster? Or will you realize that mod farming is one of the most important aspects of the game and spend more time, energy, and Crystal's improving your mod game?
GP is a measure of resources invested not of combat potential. The latter would actually be extremely difficult to calculate as it is heavily dependent on factors beyond the individual character. For example Zombie in a Nightsisters squad has a much higher combat potential than she would in say a Rebel squad.
GP is a measure of resources invested not of combat potential. The latter would actually be extremely difficult to calculate as it is heavily dependent on factors beyond the individual character. For example Zombie in a Nightsisters squad has a much higher combat potential than she would in say a Rebel squad.
which is (imo) the most likely explanation for them chosing GP for matchmaking (assuming it's only based on GP). It's certainly not the most optimal way to get the most even matches, but in a way it is "fair" nontheless.
Whether you like they way they handle matchmaking probably depends on your roster in the most cases. I completely understand that some don't like it, while others do.
Like i said earlier, perhaps GA championships will improve the quality of the matches in a possitive way for alot of players.
Replies
I asked about that because your OP made it sound like the basis of your complaint was the 100k GP difference you were alleging between people in the same group. It turns out that your complaint is exactly the same as every other GA matchmaking thread.
Lol. It's feedback based on imbalances that are exacerbated in smaller team sizes of 3v3. Don't take it personally. If it somehow makes you feel better to call it a "complaint" because you have somehow come to the conclusion that the gear/mod differences outlined above should be in the same grouping, based on a made up and seemingly completely arbitrary number, that's your prerogative.
Apologies if I have hurt anyone's feelings.
I thought the feedback section was for....you know. Feedback.
Everyone just relax....and switch to decaf....or wine.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Because GP then, is not commensurate with actual performance in battles. It's just an arbitrary number that seems to be more reflective of roster size and stars, without being truly reflective of how that roster would perform in "action.". If it was a more accurate metric, then the afore mentioned mods and g12 gear would be more accurately reflected in the GP, as it is those things that are more pertinent to how the roster performs in GA, TW, etc.
That's all in trying to say.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
To that end, GP doesn't seem to accurately reflect those advantages - as GP doesn't seem to account strongly enough for the huge jump in performance afforded by 6 star mods, speed 20+ mods and g12+4 and g12+5 (both of which also increase speed and health). In 3v3 it is more difficult to overcome said advantages than in 5v5, where synergies and strategies play a larger role in determining outcome.
Yeah, sorry. I tried to be brief. But coffee happens..
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
The whole 3v3 vs 5v5 stuff is just filler. I'm just going out on a limb here and assume that if ea/cg is apparantly able to match 3v3s "even tighter" that pretty much everyone in favour of tighter/more even matchmaking expects the same to happen for 5v5s. So yea..
I'm curious why you only mention mods though, seems to me toons like revan, drevan, traya, malak etc etc have a rather big impact aswell as just having a more focussed roster in general.
It is abundantly clear that your don't have any solid arguments for your position - yet you keep defending it with weak arguments that make no sense, mixed with some personal attacks.
It was never a measure of team/roster strength.
This has been evident for years.
According to your original post, your point was this and only this:
Let's finish discussing this - and the fact there there's hardly any difference in GP as it is today - before jumping to the next topic.
I disagree. Everybody battles for the exact same rewards. Giving players with weak rosters easier match-ups and easier access to top rank rewards than players with strong rosters (of even GP) is silly. Players, who built strong rosters, should benefit. Otherwise the incentive to improve your roster would be gone from GA.
No confusion here. I simply disagree. However, unlike you, I don't use silly arguments and personal attacks in our discussion (I may respond to them, though)
Would you rather GA matchmaking from your arena shard? (based on when you started the game) You would end up with either very very easy matches playing against very casual players, or get crushed by whales with double your GP.
Would you like them to set up GA so you fight 3 bots instead that copy your exact account and set up defenses based on common teams so you get to fight a mirror match GA everytime?
GA is competative but EA does nothing without a financial reason. So how do they make money from GA? By matchmaking via GP they force those who have played casual and unfocused to confront their weaknesses. If that motivates them to spend to catch up, mission accomplished. If that motivates them to quit? They weren't a spender anyways so who cares?
So what will YOU do? Keep asking for matchmaking changes in GA because you dont think its fair that someone with equal GP has trained harder and farmed smarter to have that roster? Or will you realize that mod farming is one of the most important aspects of the game and spend more time, energy, and Crystal's improving your mod game?
which is (imo) the most likely explanation for them chosing GP for matchmaking (assuming it's only based on GP). It's certainly not the most optimal way to get the most even matches, but in a way it is "fair" nontheless.
Whether you like they way they handle matchmaking probably depends on your roster in the most cases. I completely understand that some don't like it, while others do.
Like i said earlier, perhaps GA championships will improve the quality of the matches in a possitive way for alot of players.