Can we have a Tenacity / Potency Dev Write up like Protection Up?
May 10, 2019 5:28PM
edited May 2019
It is one of the least understood mechanics in the game, in my opinion, and plays such a huge role. Would love to see this as per what was published for Protection Up.
Thanks!
Thanks!
1
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Howdy, Stranger!
Replies
To save you the search:
If an attack is dodged or the character targeted is immune to effect, the effect can't be applied.
If an attack hits, the chance to apply the effect is 100% unless otherwise stated in the characters ability description (e.g. 70% chance for palp's stun).
Conditional on the effect being applied, the chance to resist the effect is equal to
MAX(15%, (Tenacity - Potency)%).
If the effect is unresistable tenacity and potency are not considered.
Tenacity up is +999900% tenacity
Tenacity down is -999900% tenacity (so they cancel each other out)
Potency up is +50% potency
Potency down is -50% potency
The only real subtlety is the level delta. If you are trying to apply an effect to a character at a higher level (e.g. Thrawn in the 7* stage of his event is level 88) your potency is reduced by 5% per level your character is lower (up to a maximum of -30%).
Hope all of that is clear? Feel free to ask if not.
I still think there are aspects of these interactions not known to the general populace and as you stated, finding an authoritative source document is all but impossible.
Tenacity down can't be resisted, it does not go through the tenacity/potency check.
Plus CLS gets an extra 40% potency from his unique, not that it matters for tenacity down, but that would take him over 80%.
That's why if you have CLS or TFP or KRU etc. in your rancor/P1 or P3 Haat teams you never need potency.
I think some people keep recommending you put lots of potency on your characters though because they just remember it was super important in the previous teams like teebo lead before tenacity down was a thing.
How would a player know that Ten Down is always unresistable? It's not posted anywhere....
You can see that it is unresistable if you would click on the expanded ability mechanics on swgoh.gg. Moreover, think about how you would ever be able to "counter" Tenacity Up if Tenacity Down could be resisted.
And that's true the other way around too, there's always a 15% chance to inflict a debuff even if the enemy has 100000000000000% tenacity.
- Grand Admiral Thrawn
So, we do need a write up then 😄
No, this is untrue.
Erroneous. You still have a 15% resist chance with Tenacity Down, but you'll never land a debuff on a character with Tenacity Up unless it has the "can't be resisted" tag.
MAX(15%, (Tenacity - Potency)%)
Tenacity/potency modifying buffs/debuffs/uniques/leaderships, doges, immunities, level delta etc. all considered separately - once you know the tenacity and potency that's how you calculate the probability of resisting an effect that has been applied.
If your tenacity is >99900% (tenacity up) and potency is normal... your resist chance is over 100% and you can't be debuffed (by a resistible debuf), if you tenacity is -99900% (tenacity down) then your resist chance is 15%... if it's somewhere in between then do Tenacity - potency and if the number you get is less than 15% your resist chance is 15%, but if the number you get is greater than 15% that's the chance to resist (which can easily be over 100%).
Taking two examples in which the chance to apply effect case is met here is what you could expect from the two different versions of the calculation to determine chance to resist...
NB: I've called this (100 + Potency - Tenacity)/100 warrior uses "chance to apply" and his seperate base 15% door as "chance to resist" and the two methods look like this:
1) Probability of debuf fail = max(0.15, (Tenacity - Potency)/100)
2) Probability of debuf fail = 1 - (chance to apply * (1 - chance to resist))
= 1 - (((100 + Potency - Tenacity)/100) * 0.85)
Take a potency of 90 and a tenacity of 180 (e.g. a palp vs jedi type case)
in case 1) Probability of debuf fail = 0.9
in case 2) Probability of debuf fail = 0.915 (which has the conditionality warrior added by splitting into separate "doors")
Second case potency = 50, and tenacity = 55 (e.g. more traditional debuff toon vs common tenacity pre new mods)
in case 1) Probability of debuf fail = 0.15
in case 2) Probability of debuf fail = 0.1925
Anyways... I hope if you read that a few times it makes sense but I realise that this isn't the best format for it.
Leaving aside the fact that Tenacity Down can't be resisted....the math for debuffs in that situation is off anyway. CLS gets another 40% potency from his unique so that would take him to 80%ish in potency. First you have to look at the base chance to land a debuff....some abilities say 50% or 80% chance to stun, ability block, etc. The ones that don't specify a percentage are 100%.....which is the case with CLS's special. That's the first check that is done. If that check is passed, then you go to the tenacity/potency check.
With CLS, he has a 100% base chance to land a debuff plus 80% for his potency minus 155% for Nest's tenacity. So going through the potency/tenacity check, CLS would have a 25% chance to land a debuff on Nest (leaving aside the irresistible debuffs). If that check is passed, then you go to the random check.
The random check is that even if the debuff should land because it passes the potency/tenacity check, there is a 15% chance that the debuff will be resisted. This will be overridden by any debuffs that are irresistible.
So CLS would not have a check or roll with a 25% max & 15% minimum chance of the debuff landing, they are actually 3 separate checks. 100% base chance to land - passed....25% chance to land from the potency/tenacity check - if passed, then go to 3rd check.....15% random resist check. Warrior has probably the best video out there explaining how it works:
- tenacity - potency = chance to resist with a minimum of 15%.
So basically 15% less potency than your enemies tenacity results in the maximum chance to inflict a debuff, any more potency is useless
- tenacity down can't be resisted
- tenacity down drops the resist chance to 15% (the minimum)
- tenacity up increases the resist chance to 100%
- tenacity up and down cancel eachother out
- the potency/tenacity check happens after the abilities procrate check.
for example: Vader's basic has an 80% chance to inflict ability block. Because of the minimum resist chance of 15% this means he inflicts abi block only 68% of the time at most
That's basically all you need to know.Also, there's already a write up I believe, you'd just need to search for it.
This is wrong. There is no third check as explained by EduardoCadav above. Please stop perpetuating this video like it is the bible.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/42003y/detailed_analysis_of_poes_bravado/cz8hvc1?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x
Copied out the relevant sections for those lazy to read the entire post:
Tenacity has an absolute minimum value of 15%, regardless of how much Potency the attacker has. Whether Poe (or, really, anybody else) has 40% Potency or 4,000,000%, the target can't have less than a 15% chance to Resist unless the effect is irresistible. This is definitely a messaging failure on our part, because while every unit shows a base Tenacity of 15%, I don't think it's explained anywhere that that value is irreducible.
Tenacity can never be reduced below 15%, hence short formed to Base minimum chance to resist of 15%. There is NO 3rd check.