Is there a such thing as modding a character with too much potency (or tenacity or any other stat for that matter)? In other words, is any potency over 100% wasted or can you never have too much even over and above 100%?
From a optimization standpoint in a world of balancing one mod type vs others, there is such a thing as too much potency if it’s past the point of making a reasonable difference in effects landing and you would be better off with a different mod type for other stats.
There is a such thing as too much potency, not sure of the other stats, but anything over 85% more potency than opponents tenacity isnt doing anything
There's a flat 15% chance to resist regardless of potency and/or tenacity. If that's where you got the 85% number from, you're incorrect.
You explain it then. Its totally pointless to tell me im wrong if your not going to tell me the correct way.
How to debuff
1) chance on ability (ex R2 has an 80% chance to inflict stun on basic)
2) (attacker potency + 100%) - defender tenacity
3) 15% flat resist chance no matter what stats unless ability is stated to be irresistible
There is a such thing as too much potency, not sure of the other stats, but anything over 85% more potency than opponents tenacity isnt doing anything
This isn't correct. It's tenacity - potency for the check, so anything that passes what would take the opponent's tenacity down to the fixed base of 15% is wasted. But the potency doesn't have to be higher than the opponent's tenacity to do this.
As you can see, you are not looking to be 85% higher than the tenacity of the opponent. The ideal situation is to get to the fixed 15% chance to resist without using excess potency that can be spent on other stats.
This is how debuffs work according to Developer explanation. https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/42003y/comment/cz8hvc1
In short, there is a base 15% Tenacity which cannot be reduced. You only need Potency up to your opponent's Tenacity-15%, anything else above that does not do anything.
There is a such thing as too much potency, not sure of the other stats, but anything over 85% more potency than opponents tenacity isnt doing anything
There's a flat 15% chance to resist regardless of potency and/or tenacity. If that's where you got the 85% number from, you're incorrect.
You explain it then. Its totally pointless to tell me im wrong if your not going to tell me the correct way.
How to debuff
1) chance on ability (ex R2 has an 80% chance to inflict stun on basic)
2) (attacker potency + 100%) - defender tenacity
3) 15% flat resist chance no matter what stats unless ability is stated to be irresistible
This is flat out wrong because there isn't a 3rd check.
Let's assume attacker potency is 50% vs defender tenacity of 100%.
According to the game mechanics, it's just a 50% chance to debuff because there isn't a 3rd check.
According to your proposed 3rd check, that would become only a 42.5% chance to debuff.
Some teams and or characters have really high tenacity. My non-scientific rule of thumb is if they have a debuff I want applied I try to get them above 50-60% potency. Seems to work ok.
There is a such thing as too much potency, not sure of the other stats, but anything over 85% more potency than opponents tenacity isnt doing anything
There's a flat 15% chance to resist regardless of potency and/or tenacity. If that's where you got the 85% number from, you're incorrect.
You explain it then. Its totally pointless to tell me im wrong if your not going to tell me the correct way.
How to debuff
1) chance on ability (ex R2 has an 80% chance to inflict stun on basic)
2) (attacker potency + 100%) - defender tenacity
3) 15% flat resist chance no matter what stats unless ability is stated to be irresistible
This is flat out wrong because there isn't a 3rd check.
Let's assume attacker potency is 50% vs defender tenacity of 100%.
According to the game mechanics, it's just a 50% chance to debuff because there isn't a 3rd check.
According to your proposed 3rd check, that would become only a 42.5% chance to debuff.
The “third check” is still a part of the game, due to the aforementioned universal 15% fail chance.
A debuff ability without a percent chance listed (i.e. 100% chance) but without a guaranteed hit (does not say “cannot be resisted or evaded”) used by a character with zero potency against an enemy with zero tenacity would effectively land 85% of the time. Increasing the attacking character’s potency in this case would have no effect on the final outcome.
However, if the same attacking character with zero potency used the same ability on an opponent with 100% tenacity, the chance of the ability working (100+0-100) is zero, and any increase in potency for the attacker would be helpful.
Most situations are in the middle. An attacker with a 50% chance ability and 20 potency tries to inflict a debuff on a defender with 109 tenacity. In order for the debuff to work, it needs to go through 3 gates:
1. Does the ability hit?
2. Potency/tenacity check
3. universal 15% fail rate
So in the example, the attack has a 50% chance to succeed. If it fails there, no debuff. If it passes there, it goes to the potency/tenacity check. 100+20-109= 11% chance to pass potency/tenacity. At this point, that’s a pretty low chance, but it’s still possible. If it gets through that, it then has to pass the 15% fail rate. All told, the ability would have a .5*.11*.85=.04675 or less than a 5% chance of successfully debuffing in that case.
But if the attacker bumped potency up to 80, then in the potency/tenacity check, there would be a 100+80-109=71% chance to debuff, changing the overall success chance to .5*.71*.85=.30175 or just over 30% chance of successfully debuffing.
There is a such thing as too much potency, not sure of the other stats, but anything over 85% more potency than opponents tenacity isnt doing anything
There's a flat 15% chance to resist regardless of potency and/or tenacity. If that's where you got the 85% number from, you're incorrect.
You explain it then. Its totally pointless to tell me im wrong if your not going to tell me the correct way.
How to debuff
1) chance on ability (ex R2 has an 80% chance to inflict stun on basic)
2) (attacker potency + 100%) - defender tenacity
3) 15% flat resist chance no matter what stats unless ability is stated to be irresistible
This is flat out wrong because there isn't a 3rd check.
Let's assume attacker potency is 50% vs defender tenacity of 100%.
According to the game mechanics, it's just a 50% chance to debuff because there isn't a 3rd check.
According to your proposed 3rd check, that would become only a 42.5% chance to debuff.
The “third check” is still a part of the game, due to the aforementioned universal 15% fail chance.
A debuff ability without a percent chance listed (i.e. 100% chance) but without a guaranteed hit (does not say “cannot be resisted or evaded”) used by a character with zero potency against an enemy with zero tenacity would effectively land 85% of the time. Increasing the attacking character’s potency in this case would have no effect on the final outcome.
However, if the same attacking character with zero potency used the same ability on an opponent with 100% tenacity, the chance of the ability working (100+0-100) is zero, and any increase in potency for the attacker would be helpful.
Most situations are in the middle. An attacker with a 50% chance ability and 20 potency tries to inflict a debuff on a defender with 109 tenacity. In order for the debuff to work, it needs to go through 3 gates:
1. Does the ability hit?
2. Potency/tenacity check
3. universal 15% fail rate
So in the example, the attack has a 50% chance to succeed. If it fails there, no debuff. If it passes there, it goes to the potency/tenacity check. 100+20-109= 11% chance to pass potency/tenacity. At this point, that’s a pretty low chance, but it’s still possible. If it gets through that, it then has to pass the 15% fail rate. All told, the ability would have a .5*.11*.85=.04675 or less than a 5% chance of successfully debuffing in that case.
But if the attacker bumped potency up to 80, then in the potency/tenacity check, there would be a 100+80-109=71% chance to debuff, changing the overall success chance to .5*.71*.85=.30175 or just over 30% chance of successfully debuffing.
There isn't a third gate. Your imagined 3rd gate is already inbuilt in the 2nd gate.
Read the developer explanation: Tenacity has an absolute minimum value of 15%, regardless of how much Potency the attacker has. Whether Poe (or, really, anybody else) has 40% Potency or 4,000,000%, the target can't have less than a 15% chance to Resist unless the effect is irresistible. This is definitely a messaging failure on our part, because while every unit shows a base Tenacity of 15%, I don't think it's explained anywhere that that value is irreducible.
That so called universal 15% fail rate comes about because this 15% Tenacity cannot be reduced by Potency.
There is a such thing as too much potency, not sure of the other stats, but anything over 85% more potency than opponents tenacity isnt doing anything
There's a flat 15% chance to resist regardless of potency and/or tenacity. If that's where you got the 85% number from, you're incorrect.
You explain it then. Its totally pointless to tell me im wrong if your not going to tell me the correct way.
How to debuff
1) chance on ability (ex R2 has an 80% chance to inflict stun on basic)
2) (attacker potency + 100%) - defender tenacity
3) 15% flat resist chance no matter what stats unless ability is stated to be irresistible
This is flat out wrong because there isn't a 3rd check.
Let's assume attacker potency is 50% vs defender tenacity of 100%.
According to the game mechanics, it's just a 50% chance to debuff because there isn't a 3rd check.
According to your proposed 3rd check, that would become only a 42.5% chance to debuff.
The “third check” is still a part of the game, due to the aforementioned universal 15% fail chance.
A debuff ability without a percent chance listed (i.e. 100% chance) but without a guaranteed hit (does not say “cannot be resisted or evaded”) used by a character with zero potency against an enemy with zero tenacity would effectively land 85% of the time. Increasing the attacking character’s potency in this case would have no effect on the final outcome.
However, if the same attacking character with zero potency used the same ability on an opponent with 100% tenacity, the chance of the ability working (100+0-100) is zero, and any increase in potency for the attacker would be helpful.
Most situations are in the middle. An attacker with a 50% chance ability and 20 potency tries to inflict a debuff on a defender with 109 tenacity. In order for the debuff to work, it needs to go through 3 gates:
1. Does the ability hit?
2. Potency/tenacity check
3. universal 15% fail rate
So in the example, the attack has a 50% chance to succeed. If it fails there, no debuff. If it passes there, it goes to the potency/tenacity check. 100+20-109= 11% chance to pass potency/tenacity. At this point, that’s a pretty low chance, but it’s still possible. If it gets through that, it then has to pass the 15% fail rate. All told, the ability would have a .5*.11*.85=.04675 or less than a 5% chance of successfully debuffing in that case.
But if the attacker bumped potency up to 80, then in the potency/tenacity check, there would be a 100+80-109=71% chance to debuff, changing the overall success chance to .5*.71*.85=.30175 or just over 30% chance of successfully debuffing.
Tenacity 109 - potency 20 = 89% chance to resist a debuff. The 15% resist chance doesn't even come into it.
The only time the 15% comes into play is when the tenacity/potency check takes the chance to resist below 15%. For example, 100 tenacity - 95 potency = 5% chance to resist. However, tenacity can't be taken lower than 15%, so this is used instead of 5%.
So then what you’re saying is the irreducible 15% tenacity only comes into play when the 100+potency-tenacity formula results in a value higher than 85%, and otherwise does not come into play
So then what you’re saying is the irreducible 15% tenacity only comes into play when the 100+potency-tenacity formula results in a value higher than 85%, and otherwise does not come into play
No. When the chance to resist would otherwise be lower than 15% is when it comes into play.
You are using a way too complicated formula too. Stick with tenacity - potency = chance to resist. Much cleaner and easier.
Edit: using your formula, yes, when the figure is greater than 85 it means the minimum chance to resist (15%) / maximum chance to apply a debuff which isn't irresistible (85%) comes into play.
Replies
There's a flat 15% chance to resist regardless of potency and/or tenacity. If that's where you got the 85% number from, you're incorrect.
You explain it then. Its totally pointless to tell me im wrong if your not going to tell me the correct way.
What.
1) chance on ability (ex R2 has an 80% chance to inflict stun on basic)
2) (attacker potency + 100%) - defender tenacity
3) 15% flat resist chance no matter what stats unless ability is stated to be irresistible
This isn't correct. It's tenacity - potency for the check, so anything that passes what would take the opponent's tenacity down to the fixed base of 15% is wasted. But the potency doesn't have to be higher than the opponent's tenacity to do this.
Examples.
100 tenacity - 85 potency = base 15 (perfect).
120 tenacity - 115 potency = base 15 (with 10 potency wasted)
100 tenacity - 185 potency = base 15 (with 100 potency wasted.
As you can see, you are not looking to be 85% higher than the tenacity of the opponent. The ideal situation is to get to the fixed 15% chance to resist without using excess potency that can be spent on other stats.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/42003y/comment/cz8hvc1
In short, there is a base 15% Tenacity which cannot be reduced. You only need Potency up to your opponent's Tenacity-15%, anything else above that does not do anything.
This is flat out wrong because there isn't a 3rd check.
Let's assume attacker potency is 50% vs defender tenacity of 100%.
According to the game mechanics, it's just a 50% chance to debuff because there isn't a 3rd check.
According to your proposed 3rd check, that would become only a 42.5% chance to debuff.
The “third check” is still a part of the game, due to the aforementioned universal 15% fail chance.
A debuff ability without a percent chance listed (i.e. 100% chance) but without a guaranteed hit (does not say “cannot be resisted or evaded”) used by a character with zero potency against an enemy with zero tenacity would effectively land 85% of the time. Increasing the attacking character’s potency in this case would have no effect on the final outcome.
However, if the same attacking character with zero potency used the same ability on an opponent with 100% tenacity, the chance of the ability working (100+0-100) is zero, and any increase in potency for the attacker would be helpful.
Most situations are in the middle. An attacker with a 50% chance ability and 20 potency tries to inflict a debuff on a defender with 109 tenacity. In order for the debuff to work, it needs to go through 3 gates:
1. Does the ability hit?
2. Potency/tenacity check
3. universal 15% fail rate
So in the example, the attack has a 50% chance to succeed. If it fails there, no debuff. If it passes there, it goes to the potency/tenacity check. 100+20-109= 11% chance to pass potency/tenacity. At this point, that’s a pretty low chance, but it’s still possible. If it gets through that, it then has to pass the 15% fail rate. All told, the ability would have a .5*.11*.85=.04675 or less than a 5% chance of successfully debuffing in that case.
But if the attacker bumped potency up to 80, then in the potency/tenacity check, there would be a 100+80-109=71% chance to debuff, changing the overall success chance to .5*.71*.85=.30175 or just over 30% chance of successfully debuffing.
There isn't a third gate. Your imagined 3rd gate is already inbuilt in the 2nd gate.
Read the developer explanation:
Tenacity has an absolute minimum value of 15%, regardless of how much Potency the attacker has. Whether Poe (or, really, anybody else) has 40% Potency or 4,000,000%, the target can't have less than a 15% chance to Resist unless the effect is irresistible. This is definitely a messaging failure on our part, because while every unit shows a base Tenacity of 15%, I don't think it's explained anywhere that that value is irreducible.
That so called universal 15% fail rate comes about because this 15% Tenacity cannot be reduced by Potency.
Tenacity 109 - potency 20 = 89% chance to resist a debuff. The 15% resist chance doesn't even come into it.
The only time the 15% comes into play is when the tenacity/potency check takes the chance to resist below 15%. For example, 100 tenacity - 95 potency = 5% chance to resist. However, tenacity can't be taken lower than 15%, so this is used instead of 5%.
No. When the chance to resist would otherwise be lower than 15% is when it comes into play.
You are using a way too complicated formula too. Stick with tenacity - potency = chance to resist. Much cleaner and easier.
Edit: using your formula, yes, when the figure is greater than 85 it means the minimum chance to resist (15%) / maximum chance to apply a debuff which isn't irresistible (85%) comes into play.