My solution to ties is to hang them in the closet and my solution to draws is to put them in the dresser with my drawers, in the drawer above my socks.
If we're still talking about the game however, possible solutions to a drawn/tied round include:
* a virtual coin-flip to determine the winner without bias, or
* add up total GP deployed (offensive + defensive) for each player and the lower total wins (for being more efficient); in the unlikely event of a draw/tie here, just flip a virtual coin
Both solutions I have proposed many times before.
What's the difference between a virtual coinflip and how it currently is though?
Not a whole lot. The coin flip is just a simple unbiased way of picking a winner without using a meaningless arbitrary value like total GP.
My solution to ties is to hang them in the closet and my solution to draws is to put them in the dresser with my drawers, in the drawer above my socks.
If we're still talking about the game however, possible solutions to a drawn/tied round include:
* a virtual coin-flip to determine the winner without bias, or
* add up total GP deployed (offensive + defensive) for each player and the lower total wins (for being more efficient); in the unlikely event of a draw/tie here, just flip a virtual coin
Both solutions I have proposed many times before.
What's the difference between a virtual coinflip and how it currently is though?
Not a whole lot. The coin flip is just a simple unbiased way of picking a winner without using a meaningless arbitrary value like total GP.
Right, so why change it if the outcome is effectively the same?
My solution to ties is to hang them in the closet and my solution to draws is to put them in the dresser with my drawers, in the drawer above my socks.
If we're still talking about the game however, possible solutions to a drawn/tied round include:
* a virtual coin-flip to determine the winner without bias, or
* add up total GP deployed (offensive + defensive) for each player and the lower total wins (for being more efficient); in the unlikely event of a draw/tie here, just flip a virtual coin
Both solutions I have proposed many times before.
What's the difference between a virtual coinflip and how it currently is though?
Not a whole lot. The coin flip is just a simple unbiased way of picking a winner without using a meaningless arbitrary value like total GP.
Right, so why change it if the outcome is effectively the same?
Because a pure, unbiased 50/50 chance is arguably better than using an arbitrary measure like player A happening to have 0.0001% more total GP than player B ar the start of the tournament.
My solution to ties is to hang them in the closet and my solution to draws is to put them in the dresser with my drawers, in the drawer above my socks.
If we're still talking about the game however, possible solutions to a drawn/tied round include:
* a virtual coin-flip to determine the winner without bias, or
* add up total GP deployed (offensive + defensive) for each player and the lower total wins (for being more efficient); in the unlikely event of a draw/tie here, just flip a virtual coin
Both solutions I have proposed many times before.
What's the difference between a virtual coinflip and how it currently is though?
Not a whole lot. The coin flip is just a simple unbiased way of picking a winner without using a meaningless arbitrary value like total GP.
Right, so why change it if the outcome is effectively the same?
Because a pure, unbiased 50/50 chance is arguably better than using an arbitrary measure like player A happening to have 0.0001% more total GP than player B ar the start of the tournament.
but who has most GP is pure RNG, so it's effectively the same.
My solution to ties is to hang them in the closet and my solution to draws is to put them in the dresser with my drawers, in the drawer above my socks.
If we're still talking about the game however, possible solutions to a drawn/tied round include:
* a virtual coin-flip to determine the winner without bias, or
* add up total GP deployed (offensive + defensive) for each player and the lower total wins (for being more efficient); in the unlikely event of a draw/tie here, just flip a virtual coin
Both solutions I have proposed many times before.
What's the difference between a virtual coinflip and how it currently is though?
Not a whole lot. The coin flip is just a simple unbiased way of picking a winner without using a meaningless arbitrary value like total GP.
Right, so why change it if the outcome is effectively the same?
Because then we might see fewer threads about how unfair it is that higher GP wins?
My solution to ties is to hang them in the closet and my solution to draws is to put them in the dresser with my drawers, in the drawer above my socks.
If we're still talking about the game however, possible solutions to a drawn/tied round include:
* a virtual coin-flip to determine the winner without bias, or
* add up total GP deployed (offensive + defensive) for each player and the lower total wins (for being more efficient); in the unlikely event of a draw/tie here, just flip a virtual coin
Both solutions I have proposed many times before.
What's the difference between a virtual coinflip and how it currently is though?
Not a whole lot. The coin flip is just a simple unbiased way of picking a winner without using a meaningless arbitrary value like total GP.
Right, so why change it if the outcome is effectively the same?
Because a pure, unbiased 50/50 chance is arguably better than using an arbitrary measure like player A happening to have 0.0001% more total GP than player B ar the start of the tournament.
but who has most GP is pure RNG, so it's effectively the same.
You are getting way too hung up on something that just a simple to implement alternative to the current solution.
My solution to ties is to hang them in the closet and my solution to draws is to put them in the dresser with my drawers, in the drawer above my socks.
If we're still talking about the game however, possible solutions to a drawn/tied round include:
* a virtual coin-flip to determine the winner without bias, or
* add up total GP deployed (offensive + defensive) for each player and the lower total wins (for being more efficient); in the unlikely event of a draw/tie here, just flip a virtual coin
Both solutions I have proposed many times before.
What's the difference between a virtual coinflip and how it currently is though?
Not a whole lot. The coin flip is just a simple unbiased way of picking a winner without using a meaningless arbitrary value like total GP.
Right, so why change it if the outcome is effectively the same?
Because a pure, unbiased 50/50 chance is arguably better than using an arbitrary measure like player A happening to have 0.0001% more total GP than player B ar the start of the tournament.
but who has most GP is pure RNG, so it's effectively the same.
You are getting way too hung up on something that just a simple to implement alternative to the current solution.
It just seems silly to me to change something only to have effectively the same outcome.
[...] ... I’m merely putting my point across that their system at the moment isn’t great, ...
Since in round 2 and 3 you're matched against other players with the same amount of wins as you, a winner must be found. If not GP what would you suggest as the tie breaker?
Using GP, the matchmaking algorithm can make sure, that all 8 players in the group have different (but almost the same) GP, and that a winner can always be found. It works.
My solution to ties is to hang them in the closet and my solution to draws is to put them in the dresser with my drawers, in the drawer above my socks.
If we're still talking about the game however, possible solutions to a drawn/tied round include:
* a virtual coin-flip to determine the winner without bias, or
* add up total GP deployed (offensive + defensive) for each player and the lower total wins (for being more efficient); in the unlikely event of a draw/tie here, just flip a virtual coin
Both solutions I have proposed many times before.
Using the total amount of GP deployed as the tie breaker, is a terrible idea. It could influence the decisions during the round. Using GP or a coinflip will not influence your decisions.
My solution to ties is to hang them in the closet and my solution to draws is to put them in the dresser with my drawers, in the drawer above my socks.
If we're still talking about the game however, possible solutions to a drawn/tied round include:
* a virtual coin-flip to determine the winner without bias, or
* add up total GP deployed (offensive + defensive) for each player and the lower total wins (for being more efficient); in the unlikely event of a draw/tie here, just flip a virtual coin
Both solutions I have proposed many times before.
Using the total amount of GP deployed as the tie breaker, is a terrible idea. It could influence the decisions during the round.
Which makes it more strategic.
With that said I've never had a tie and the odds still feel long to me, so if someone wants to try and deploy less in order to win a tiebreaker, more advantage to me. Bad strategy is still strategy.
My solution to ties is to hang them in the closet and my solution to draws is to put them in the dresser with my drawers, in the drawer above my socks.
If we're still talking about the game however, possible solutions to a drawn/tied round include:
* a virtual coin-flip to determine the winner without bias, or
* add up total GP deployed (offensive + defensive) for each player and the lower total wins (for being more efficient); in the unlikely event of a draw/tie here, just flip a virtual coin
Both solutions I have proposed many times before.
What's the difference between a virtual coinflip and how it currently is though?
Not a whole lot. The coin flip is just a simple unbiased way of picking a winner without using a meaningless arbitrary value like total GP.
But your group is picked by an unbiased system (at that micro GP level), and the end resulting GP match is also unbiased....
My solution to ties is to hang them in the closet and my solution to draws is to put them in the dresser with my drawers, in the drawer above my socks.
If we're still talking about the game however, possible solutions to a drawn/tied round include:
* a virtual coin-flip to determine the winner without bias, or
* add up total GP deployed (offensive + defensive) for each player and the lower total wins (for being more efficient); in the unlikely event of a draw/tie here, just flip a virtual coin
Both solutions I have proposed many times before.
Using the total amount of GP deployed as the tie breaker, is a terrible idea. It could influence the decisions during the round.
Which makes it more strategic.
With that said I've never had a tie and the odds still feel long to me, so if someone wants to try and deploy less in order to win a tiebreaker, more advantage to me. Bad strategy is still strategy.
Back to square one:
Should the player with more GP deployed win the tie break or the player with less GP deployed?
Yes, it could add a strategic aspect, but not one, I'd like. I prefer that the only goal is to score more banners, and that in even matches you optimize everything to reach this one goal.
My solution to ties is to hang them in the closet and my solution to draws is to put them in the dresser with my drawers, in the drawer above my socks.
If we're still talking about the game however, possible solutions to a drawn/tied round include:
* a virtual coin-flip to determine the winner without bias, or
* add up total GP deployed (offensive + defensive) for each player and the lower total wins (for being more efficient); in the unlikely event of a draw/tie here, just flip a virtual coin
Both solutions I have proposed many times before.
What's the difference between a virtual coinflip and how it currently is though?
Not a whole lot. The coin flip is just a simple unbiased way of picking a winner without using a meaningless arbitrary value like total GP.
But your group is picked by an unbiased system (at that micro GP level), and the end resulting GP match is also unbiased....
*sigh*
Unless you are privy to the design & implementation details of the matchmaking algorithm, you do not know whether or not it has biases but that doesn't even matter because...
Using GP as a tie-breaker, within any given bracket one player has 100% chance to win any tie, one has 0% chance and everyone else is somewhere in between. Ergo the GP method is inherently biased.
My solution to ties is to hang them in the closet and my solution to draws is to put them in the dresser with my drawers, in the drawer above my socks.
If we're still talking about the game however, possible solutions to a drawn/tied round include:
* a virtual coin-flip to determine the winner without bias, or
* add up total GP deployed (offensive + defensive) for each player and the lower total wins (for being more efficient); in the unlikely event of a draw/tie here, just flip a virtual coin
Both solutions I have proposed many times before.
What's the difference between a virtual coinflip and how it currently is though?
Not a whole lot. The coin flip is just a simple unbiased way of picking a winner without using a meaningless arbitrary value like total GP.
But your group is picked by an unbiased system (at that micro GP level), and the end resulting GP match is also unbiased....
*sigh*
Unless you are privy to the design & implementation details of the matchmaking algorithm, you do not know whether or not it has biases but that doesn't even matter because...
Using GP as a tie-breaker, within any given bracket one player has 100% chance to win any tie, one has 0% chance and everyone else is somewhere in between. Ergo the GP method is inherently biased.
Is that a real bias though? It's the same bias that raids does. The outcome is decided at the moment of that draw, all of those who posts 0 at a raid or has the same score will be ordered due to the randomization made at the very beginning.
Do you or anyone really plays their matches with the assumption it will end up at a tie? I'm extremely sceptic of that, it's just a situation that can happen as a result which has a foreseeable result...that result is still random as far as we are concerned as we have zero impact on how the algo grabs the 8 with extremely close GPs.
My solution to ties is to hang them in the closet and my solution to draws is to put them in the dresser with my drawers, in the drawer above my socks.
If we're still talking about the game however, possible solutions to a drawn/tied round include:
* a virtual coin-flip to determine the winner without bias, or
* add up total GP deployed (offensive + defensive) for each player and the lower total wins (for being more efficient); in the unlikely event of a draw/tie here, just flip a virtual coin
Both solutions I have proposed many times before.
What's the difference between a virtual coinflip and how it currently is though?
Not a whole lot. The coin flip is just a simple unbiased way of picking a winner without using a meaningless arbitrary value like total GP.
But your group is picked by an unbiased system (at that micro GP level), and the end resulting GP match is also unbiased....
*sigh*
Unless you are privy to the design & implementation details of the matchmaking algorithm, you do not know whether or not it has biases but that doesn't even matter because...
Using GP as a tie-breaker, within any given bracket one player has 100% chance to win any tie, one has 0% chance and everyone else is somewhere in between. Ergo the GP method is inherently biased.
After players are matched in groups of 8, who will win ties is fixed, yes. There's no randomness in each single tie. However, the randomness lies in the matchmaking.
I can't possibly imagine, that there's any bias in this regard during matchmaking.
It's no different than during raids. After everybody joined, the order in case of ties is fixed. However, the order when joining is still random. Would you say, there's bias here?
I suggested that, in the case of a tie, the first tie breaker go to whoever had less offense attempts. Less attempts means more efficiency, but due to their scoring any number of attempts after 2 is considered "even", and that logic is flawed.
Replies
Right, so why change it if the outcome is effectively the same?
but who has most GP is pure RNG, so it's effectively the same.
Because then we might see fewer threads about how unfair it is that higher GP wins?
It just seems silly to me to change something only to have effectively the same outcome.
Fixed.
Since in round 2 and 3 you're matched against other players with the same amount of wins as you, a winner must be found. If not GP what would you suggest as the tie breaker?
Using GP, the matchmaking algorithm can make sure, that all 8 players in the group have different (but almost the same) GP, and that a winner can always be found. It works.
Using the total amount of GP deployed as the tie breaker, is a terrible idea. It could influence the decisions during the round. Using GP or a coinflip will not influence your decisions.
Which makes it more strategic.
With that said I've never had a tie and the odds still feel long to me, so if someone wants to try and deploy less in order to win a tiebreaker, more advantage to me. Bad strategy is still strategy.
Neither was the lost car key but that didn't stop you!
But your group is picked by an unbiased system (at that micro GP level), and the end resulting GP match is also unbiased....
Back to square one:
Should the player with more GP deployed win the tie break or the player with less GP deployed?
Yes, it could add a strategic aspect, but not one, I'd like. I prefer that the only goal is to score more banners, and that in even matches you optimize everything to reach this one goal.
Unless you are privy to the design & implementation details of the matchmaking algorithm, you do not know whether or not it has biases but that doesn't even matter because...
Using GP as a tie-breaker, within any given bracket one player has 100% chance to win any tie, one has 0% chance and everyone else is somewhere in between. Ergo the GP method is inherently biased.
Is that a real bias though? It's the same bias that raids does. The outcome is decided at the moment of that draw, all of those who posts 0 at a raid or has the same score will be ordered due to the randomization made at the very beginning.
Do you or anyone really plays their matches with the assumption it will end up at a tie? I'm extremely sceptic of that, it's just a situation that can happen as a result which has a foreseeable result...that result is still random as far as we are concerned as we have zero impact on how the algo grabs the 8 with extremely close GPs.
After players are matched in groups of 8, who will win ties is fixed, yes. There's no randomness in each single tie. However, the randomness lies in the matchmaking.
I can't possibly imagine, that there's any bias in this regard during matchmaking.
It's no different than during raids. After everybody joined, the order in case of ties is fixed. However, the order when joining is still random. Would you say, there's bias here?