If 80/85m GP guilds enjoy and get better rewards from hoth than from geo, it's better to just protect those sub 80m GP guilds from themselves and save them the dissappointment.
You don't think a better solution would simply been to have had an in game notice saying:
"This Territory Battle is very hard and intended for Guilds of 80,000,000+ GP. If you have lower than that you may proceed but may find it too difficult for you."
And that way left it up to players to decide for themselves what they wanted to do? Not every 79.9 million GP guild is going to need "protecting from themselves". Or 79.8 million GP guilds. Or 79.7 million ... etc.
Have you read the complaints of any given event in regards to the "recommended gear/zeta lvl"? That about says it all imo.
Honestly though, complaining about this seems a bit like complaining that a restaurant doesn't have horrible food on the menu eventhough no one wants to order horrible food by mistake.
I look forward to seeing you use that argument the next time a GP requirement (player, character or guild) is introduced that you fall foul of.
Tell me, did you have the requirements to get Malak when he first came out?
You can try to make me seem biased all you want, but that doesn't change my opinion. Especially not in regards to this TB. For all we know a 79m GP guild would get significantly less rewards from geo TB than they get from hoth TB, and a very dissapointing experience to boot. Whether 80m GP is the right cutoff point remains to be seen, but i do support their choice of restricting access.
Giving players access to content they don't have a snowballs chance in hell to clear isn't necessarily a good thing, no matter what your bias may or may not be.
(i'm in a 200m GP guild and i didn't need to gear a single character to get ready for malak)
The same applied to all raids and it was fine. Everyone was able to gauge their power and stay whichever tier they wanted to. Why should it be a problem just letting folks see what's up with the new content this time? CG just needs to put a strong ingame textual emphasis on what's the very bottom cutline and that's it. Like the warning for less than full teams and such.
I honestly don't see the problem with restricting access to content if it has a negative effect on the guild. The only downside is that players don't get to see what's up right away or test it out. Why is that such a big problem? especially compared to playing a TB that is way too hard and leads to less rewards while you could have been playing a TB that isn't way too hard and gives better rewards.
I"m sure there are quite a few guilds which have wasted their raid tickets on t6 raids. While an arbitrary GP restriction probably doesn't work for raid tiers, i can definately see it work for TB.
It's certainly not my problem. Is it a big problem, I guess not. I think people will let the subject go as this TB comes out and see what happens even at 150M GP guild range. But it's not necessary to push a hard wall of admission either. I came up with one such suggestion that still provides CG's intention of warning about the extreme difficulty and doesn't cause a hard wall.
It's high end pve content.
That why you can still play Hoth, till the point you can play sep tb
So what? Sith raid also was high-end PvE content but we could still participate in lower tiers. It description contains warnings that tier 5 is intended for 40+ players, etc. We never hit that numbers and successfully did it with much smaller player base.
Also if you understand how game works you should probably understand that 50 1.6m players (80m overall GP) is typically WAY weaker force than, for example, 25 3m players (75m overall GP). Still, first group can participate in new TB but second can not. It's just silly.
So, as much as I am not a fan of GP requirements (since GP doesn’t actually signify as much as it should), I kind of see this as the lesser of two evils. The devs want TB to progress from Hoth to geo. The gate that makes the most sense would be to require you to have achieved max stars (or “completed”) the Hoth TB maps. That’s a lot more restrictive than 80GP, and would’ve caused a much bigger shake up of guilds. So they set the bar lower. Some say there shouldn’t be a bar, which is a valid opinion, but for better or worse the makers of the game decided there is one. Of the likely bars to have, this is probably the easiest to handle.
As a side note, I think from a gear standpoint a more useful metric would have been HSTR completion (since anyone who hasn’t completed it won’t be able to finish G12 anyway).
Gated system could work if game had plenty PvE content for all levels. But it severely lacks it. Now we got new long-awaited content, and suddenly smaller guilds are completely cut off of it.
All I'm going to say is, while I'm not the 4k a month whale that cg wants I do spend a couple of hundred a month. By telling me that I have to choose to NOT play with my friends in a game I PAY FOR, cg, u have just created another f2p player. That's what's truly wrong here. I LOVE my guildmates, and while we arent far from 80 mm gp, we r a top heavy guild with newer recruits whom we enjoy mentoring, so dont tell me we wont get ANY stars and if we dont well it's our choice isnt it? Guess not...
Lebron liked to play with his friends aswell, but he liked the NBA even more.
The real wall will be the content itself. Even expecting the extremity, I bet I'll freak out when I start playing it too xD
i fully expect it to suck incredibly hard for 120m GP guilds, so i believe the 79m GP are the winners over the 81m GP guilds simply because they got denied access. But that's just a prediction based on gut feeling.
For me i expect it the be a challenge aswell, i hope it will be!
It's high end pve content.
That why you can still play Hoth, till the point you can play sep tb
Also if you understand how game works you should probably understand that 50 1.6m players (80m overall GP) is typically WAY weaker force than, for example, 25 3m players (75m overall GP). Still, first group can participate in new TB but second can not. It's just silly.
Yes but 80 mil might barley get 1* while 78 might get 0 even with max cm scores and all deployed so that might be there reasons to not make you waste a tb to get absolutely nothing other then go hi map and u can do that online easily and see all toon requirements also. So my guess is that the 80 mil is there for a reason to not have guilds just waste time/rewards
It would have been better if the expectation was managed better. If they came out, at the start, to say they are having a new TB and it is expected that there will be a gp minimum requirement of around such a figure, due to difficulty, then that would have managed disappointment better. My guild is someway off and I agree with the OP in so far as it will cause problems of trying to reach that goal. We still climb in gp but takes longer due to others moving to other guilds, even though they would have liked to stay put.
Wouldn't it be prudent to at least wait and see what the numbers are on the TB before getting too far into this?
I get making the complaint that you feel it may negatively impact your guild, but in the end if the actual star requirements could also lock you out or limit you to 1-2 stars..... it seems the best option is to take a wait and see position until we have the information in hand.
We know that they are really making a push to make g13 a new tier and a big driving force for the "end game", but they have stated there will be multiple ways to get them. In the end the impact on your developing guild may not be that significant.
If your guild is in a position where by choice you have a rotating door and help people develop who then leave and move on, this may be an issue, but again, we dont know the final breakdown, you may simply be point locked out anyway. Yes this may require you to make a choice, but most likely you have already made that choice by staying in a guild that is not at "the tip of the sword" in all content.
Yes but 80 mil might barley get 1* while 78 might get 0 even with max cm scores and all deployed so that might be there reasons to not make you waste a tb to get absolutely nothing other then go hi map and u can do that online easily and see all toon requirements also. So my guess is that the 80 mil is there for a reason to not have guilds just waste time/rewards
Let me ask you a question - if 40+ members joined for tier 5 sith raid was hard restriction instead of advice, would it be a good or bad thing?
The battle will be hard? We might fail it? Ok, but let us at least try it, instead of endless grinding of Hoth (and, btw, forcing to choose between Hoth and Geo is another terrible decision).
Allow us to try and fail. We don't have to ace it to be happy, we just want to be allowed to play. If you were a chess player, would you not want to play Kasparov despite knowing he'd annihilate you? If you were on a soccer team, would you pass up the opportunity to play Manchester United just because you'd lose 40-0?
Tough is good. Allow us to face it!
Actually a lot of people would not want to do that. This is a personal preference on your part that you should be allowed to try and fail against something you have literally no chance at, but it is far from a universal one. And even if people say they want this, the devs have reason to believe that in reality it creates a negative experience for players and that they are better off not letting people in the door to the tough content rather than creating immense frustration among people who can't get anywhere with it.
Let me put it this way: if there is exclusive gear that requires the geonosis currency to purchase (and actually exclusive, meaning no other way to obtain it) then I have a HUGE problem with this. If there is no exclusive gear, I'll still be **** I can't enjoy the new content that I've essentially paid for, but not as ****. If there is exclusive gear then we should be allowed to attempt it to try for a star or two to slowly build up currency for said gear.
How is this different than releasing exclusive gear that can only be obtained by completing HSTR? Sure, you can *try* HSTR, but if you have zero chance at actually completing it you are locked out of g12+ exactly the same as if they didn't let you try.
Well, i hate to be that guy, but this won’t change anything. There was more backlash for the finn rework cause of the c3po interaction, and that changed nothing.
The previous incident I was put more in mind of was Malak and the requirements for that.
It's amazing how many people were outraged over those requirements when they fell foul of them. Yet here is another requirement which doesn't effect them ... and those same people are arguing that the requirements are a good thing?
I wonder how many people in this thread who have the opposite view to me would have accepted it if they'd been told that the Malak requirements were a good thing because it would otherwise have been too hard for them and if they were a serious player they'd have the requirements anyway so go back to getting CLS which is better to have some rewards than try this one and get none ... etc, etc, etc.
I distinctly recall a thread from well before Malak, in relation to the Chewie event, in which somebody was arguing that this should be done. He was banging their heads against the event for days, getting more and more frustrated and ready to quit the game and/or throw his phone out the window, and he said, "If in reality it requires g12 and Bossk, then you should make that a hard requirement and don't even let people do the event if they don't have it."
Personally I prefer to be allowed to try the event at a lower level, but I also think that the level of frustration present in the player base surrounding the Chewie event was not good for the game as a whole. I didn't mind the Malak requirements much because I recognize it was a way of forcing people to gear the characters and avoiding the situation where somebody tries for 2 days straight and gets amazing RNG and gets him while others rage and rage that they can't do it with higher gear than that guy had.
In this case, I consider the restriction reasonable due to the fact that you have to choose one or the other. Everybody will be able to participate in the exact same number of TBs, it's just a matter of which one you do, and is basically the same thing as having a higher tier.
It is not the same thing as having a higher tier when you cannot enter. We have entered HSTR to see how we are coming. We can't do it, but we can try. This, we can't even see, as a guild, where we need to work. Not everyone in the game reads the forums, or watches u-tub. I would quit if I weren't in a guild with so many people I like. and get to help. https://swgoh.gg/p/514176228/
I’d just let them play it, and if any of them (80gp or less) try to complain on forums, shut it down instantly with a message saying: u got what u asked for
How would that work exactly?
Announce you need 80m GP to participate, wait for the forum to rage and ask to be able to play it, take away the 80m GP restriction and tell them they got what they asked for?
O_o
leef Yep, because if it’s as hard as they are saying, they (less than 80gp) won’t be able to do anything anyways. They already made the announcement about it being 80 go to play btw
yea i know they did, but they'd have to make that statement prior to being asked to be able to play with less than 80 GP. Otherwise they can't say "you asked for it".
Wouldn't it be prudent to at least wait and see what the numbers are on the TB before getting too far into this?
If we will just sit and wait then nothing will change and we will be basically cut off from further progression. Smaller guild will not get new content, and also will not get new rewards therefore slowing progression even more. If we will complain... well, there is a small chance that some changes will follow.
And I really see no reason why devs can't tune TB in the way which allows smaller guilds get a couple of stars while let big guilds to compete for top rewards. It worked for previous TB, it worked for raids (well, aside the fact that STR has terrible reward/effort ratio). Why this TB requires such drastic change?
It is not the same thing as having a higher tier when you cannot enter.
It's the same thing as having a higher tier that you can't enter until you meet the requirements for it. Like, say, a mythic event that you can't attempt until you've beaten the regular event.
Yea, I could change guilds and go from a place I have been for 3+ years playing with friends to a place where they don't care about anything except how you perform. I would quit first because of the direction this game is heading.
Yea, I could change guilds and go from a place I have been for 3+ years playing with friends to a place where they don't care about anything except how you perform. I would quit first because of the direction this game is heading.
Exactly.
I don't think the Devs appreciate that people like their current Guilds and I resent the notion being floated around the forum that it's a "mistake" to somehow stay loyal to your guild and your friends whom you've been playing alongside for years.
Yea, I could change guilds and go from a place I have been for 3+ years playing with friends to a place where they don't care about anything except how you perform. I would quit first because of the direction this game is heading.
In all honesty, your friend are holding you back. You can blame the game design for that, but it's just the way it works, whether it's games, education, sports etc etc.
I do wonder how a guild you've been in with friends for 3+ years doesn't have atleast 80m GP. That honestly blows my mind.
My friends aren't holding me back. I finish in top 20 in squad, #1 in ships and have all but Traya. She is ok, but hasn't kept me from top 20 in squad not having her. That is only not having mods with enough speed. I have never been in a game, school, or sport where you couldn't try. You may lose, sit the bench or not make the team, or lose, but you could alswys try. Just like HSTR.
I completely agree with OP - the new TB requirements looks like a nail in the coffin for many smaller guilds. When Sith Raid came out it's already was bad enough. But we at least could do a lower tier. But the new TW basically says "No, you can't just play the game with your friends. If you want a new content instead of endless grind of old one you need to abandon them and jump in stronger guilds, it's mandatory".
Throwing out smaller casual guilds from the new PvE content is a very-very bad thing. Sometimes devs understand this eventually (WoW begun with 40-man raids and moved to 10-man), sometimes not. I really hope that SWGOH devs is the first type.
I think the nail in the coffin would be if only higher level guilds were allowed to run both Hoth and Geo. There are still worthy rewards in the Hoth TB that a lot of players need, so I don't think everyone will abandon lower guilds. But, if higher level guilds [only] were allowed to run both, then there would be a huge disadvantage in staying in your sub 80 guild.
I don't know if it'll kill smaller guilds or not, but I'm really bummed I have no chance of playing the new content---or even succeeding in it---for the foreseeable future. I've been excited about this TB since it was announced, and now I feel like an **** for working on my clone wars-era toons.
My friends aren't holding me back. I finish in top 20 in squad, #1 in ships and have all but Traya. She is ok, but hasn't kept me from top 20 in squad not having her. That is only not having mods with enough speed. I have never been in a game, school, or sport where you couldn't try. You may lose, sit the bench or not make the team, or lose, but you could alswys try. Just like HSTR.
You don't want to hear it and that's fine. Best of luck to you.
I think sub 80 mil guilds are missing the point. You know the requirement now - get out there and start recruiting. Join an alliance that can help you fill empty slots with higher GP rosters. Guilds are meant to grow and to grow you have to actively seek out other rosters. We typically leave at least one slot open so that we can review people that are looking to join in the fun.
Its exactly what we did to get to a point of being able to do HSTR. We needed some help to kick start the efforts, now we easily kill the raid with no help from our sister guild. If you have a solid core, you will find a way to make it work. Some people enjoy helping smaller guilds advance. Our alliance is very laid back, one guild is almost 190 mil, the other 130 mil. Think of the Hoth TB as the tier 5 or 6 leading to the Heroic version of TB (Geonosis). The biggest difference is raids can be abandoned whereas TB you are stuck until the end...If you can't get a single star - there is no jumping ship after day 1, you are stuck until after day 4 with the new TB. There would have been far greater complaints of guilds that tried the new TB and got 0 rewards, rather than releasing requirements in advance and saying its in your best interest to not try the new TB yet. Going back to raids, it would be the same thing as allowing 5* squads to attempt the Heroic phases.
Replies
It's certainly not my problem. Is it a big problem, I guess not. I think people will let the subject go as this TB comes out and see what happens even at 150M GP guild range. But it's not necessary to push a hard wall of admission either. I came up with one such suggestion that still provides CG's intention of warning about the extreme difficulty and doesn't cause a hard wall.
So what? Sith raid also was high-end PvE content but we could still participate in lower tiers. It description contains warnings that tier 5 is intended for 40+ players, etc. We never hit that numbers and successfully did it with much smaller player base.
Also if you understand how game works you should probably understand that 50 1.6m players (80m overall GP) is typically WAY weaker force than, for example, 25 3m players (75m overall GP). Still, first group can participate in new TB but second can not. It's just silly.
Gated system could work if game had plenty PvE content for all levels. But it severely lacks it. Now we got new long-awaited content, and suddenly smaller guilds are completely cut off of it.
There is way too many guilds in this game, and not enough players to fill them all.
Guild consolidation might be for the best, as far as bigger picture goes.
Lebron liked to play with his friends aswell, but he liked the NBA even more.
i fully expect it to suck incredibly hard for 120m GP guilds, so i believe the 79m GP are the winners over the 81m GP guilds simply because they got denied access. But that's just a prediction based on gut feeling.
For me i expect it the be a challenge aswell, i hope it will be!
Yes but 80 mil might barley get 1* while 78 might get 0 even with max cm scores and all deployed so that might be there reasons to not make you waste a tb to get absolutely nothing other then go hi map and u can do that online easily and see all toon requirements also. So my guess is that the 80 mil is there for a reason to not have guilds just waste time/rewards
I get making the complaint that you feel it may negatively impact your guild, but in the end if the actual star requirements could also lock you out or limit you to 1-2 stars..... it seems the best option is to take a wait and see position until we have the information in hand.
We know that they are really making a push to make g13 a new tier and a big driving force for the "end game", but they have stated there will be multiple ways to get them. In the end the impact on your developing guild may not be that significant.
If your guild is in a position where by choice you have a rotating door and help people develop who then leave and move on, this may be an issue, but again, we dont know the final breakdown, you may simply be point locked out anyway. Yes this may require you to make a choice, but most likely you have already made that choice by staying in a guild that is not at "the tip of the sword" in all content.
Let me ask you a question - if 40+ members joined for tier 5 sith raid was hard restriction instead of advice, would it be a good or bad thing?
The battle will be hard? We might fail it? Ok, but let us at least try it, instead of endless grinding of Hoth (and, btw, forcing to choose between Hoth and Geo is another terrible decision).
Actually a lot of people would not want to do that. This is a personal preference on your part that you should be allowed to try and fail against something you have literally no chance at, but it is far from a universal one. And even if people say they want this, the devs have reason to believe that in reality it creates a negative experience for players and that they are better off not letting people in the door to the tough content rather than creating immense frustration among people who can't get anywhere with it.
How is this different than releasing exclusive gear that can only be obtained by completing HSTR? Sure, you can *try* HSTR, but if you have zero chance at actually completing it you are locked out of g12+ exactly the same as if they didn't let you try.
I distinctly recall a thread from well before Malak, in relation to the Chewie event, in which somebody was arguing that this should be done. He was banging their heads against the event for days, getting more and more frustrated and ready to quit the game and/or throw his phone out the window, and he said, "If in reality it requires g12 and Bossk, then you should make that a hard requirement and don't even let people do the event if they don't have it."
Personally I prefer to be allowed to try the event at a lower level, but I also think that the level of frustration present in the player base surrounding the Chewie event was not good for the game as a whole. I didn't mind the Malak requirements much because I recognize it was a way of forcing people to gear the characters and avoiding the situation where somebody tries for 2 days straight and gets amazing RNG and gets him while others rage and rage that they can't do it with higher gear than that guy had.
In this case, I consider the restriction reasonable due to the fact that you have to choose one or the other. Everybody will be able to participate in the exact same number of TBs, it's just a matter of which one you do, and is basically the same thing as having a higher tier.
How would that work exactly?
Announce you need 80m GP to participate, wait for the forum to rage and ask to be able to play it, take away the 80m GP restriction and tell them they got what they asked for?
O_o
yea i know they did, but they'd have to make that statement prior to being asked to be able to play with less than 80 GP. Otherwise they can't say "you asked for it".
You can switch guild.
If we will just sit and wait then nothing will change and we will be basically cut off from further progression. Smaller guild will not get new content, and also will not get new rewards therefore slowing progression even more. If we will complain... well, there is a small chance that some changes will follow.
And I really see no reason why devs can't tune TB in the way which allows smaller guilds get a couple of stars while let big guilds to compete for top rewards. It worked for previous TB, it worked for raids (well, aside the fact that STR has terrible reward/effort ratio). Why this TB requires such drastic change?
It's the same thing as having a higher tier that you can't enter until you meet the requirements for it. Like, say, a mythic event that you can't attempt until you've beaten the regular event.
Exactly.
I don't think the Devs appreciate that people like their current Guilds and I resent the notion being floated around the forum that it's a "mistake" to somehow stay loyal to your guild and your friends whom you've been playing alongside for years.
In all honesty, your friend are holding you back. You can blame the game design for that, but it's just the way it works, whether it's games, education, sports etc etc.
I do wonder how a guild you've been in with friends for 3+ years doesn't have atleast 80m GP. That honestly blows my mind.
I think the nail in the coffin would be if only higher level guilds were allowed to run both Hoth and Geo. There are still worthy rewards in the Hoth TB that a lot of players need, so I don't think everyone will abandon lower guilds. But, if higher level guilds [only] were allowed to run both, then there would be a huge disadvantage in staying in your sub 80 guild.
You don't want to hear it and that's fine. Best of luck to you.
Its exactly what we did to get to a point of being able to do HSTR. We needed some help to kick start the efforts, now we easily kill the raid with no help from our sister guild. If you have a solid core, you will find a way to make it work. Some people enjoy helping smaller guilds advance. Our alliance is very laid back, one guild is almost 190 mil, the other 130 mil. Think of the Hoth TB as the tier 5 or 6 leading to the Heroic version of TB (Geonosis). The biggest difference is raids can be abandoned whereas TB you are stuck until the end...If you can't get a single star - there is no jumping ship after day 1, you are stuck until after day 4 with the new TB. There would have been far greater complaints of guilds that tried the new TB and got 0 rewards, rather than releasing requirements in advance and saying its in your best interest to not try the new TB yet. Going back to raids, it would be the same thing as allowing 5* squads to attempt the Heroic phases.