My claim is that changing MM in conjunction with increasing the number of defensive slots required creates a potentially unfair matchup scenario for those players that had been constructing their rosters based on game conditions that have persisted for the past six months. I showed you why. You chose to focus on a single toon and there's nothing I can do about that.
But, I agree with you about one thing. This matchmaking algorithm against a player like you probably wouldn't matter. I hadn't looked at your GA performance and mods prior to my last post, so I thought that, all things being equal, your roster conveyed an advantage for the reasons I outlined and you ignored. But after looking at our actual matchup:
[Let's leave out the statshaming, there's no need for it ~Rtas ]
You're right, it wouldn't matter despite your squad advantage in a 16 squad format. And I still wouldn't place Malak, I'd just beat you on banners because you either don't know how to win on offense or don't leave enough on offense to win.
On the strategy front, for anyone out there reading that wants an opinion from someone who has actually won a GA, placing Malak in a front zone and expecting to block the back can work against lesser players. I would only do it if your're comfortable with your own JKR counter against DR AND your CLS counter to JKR. That gives you the cover you need to clear in the event your defense gets beaten.
Waqui may be right about his ability to beat his roster with my roster. Based on the number of rounds he's won and the number of defensive holds he has, he probably places a very strong defense and hopes to win by clearing a single zone while his opponent fails. Again, looking at the number of rounds won, it doesn't look like that's a successful strategy, but there it is. He would probably place his opinion on the four best defensive squads in the front row and with his mods, he's most likely right, I wouldn't be able to clear them.
Against my actual first round competition...that strategy would have gotten be curb stomped.
My claim is that changing MM in conjunction with increasing the number of defensive slots required creates a potentially unfair matchup scenario for those players that had been constructing their rosters based on game conditions that have persisted for the past six months. I showed you why. You chose to focus on a single toon and there's nothing I can do about that.
You don't see, that you would have the advantage roster wise, if we were to battle in GAC, and there's nothing anyone can do about that.
But, I agree with you about one thing. This matchmaking algorithm against a player like you probably wouldn't matter. I hadn't looked at your GA performance and mods prior to my last post, so I thought that, all things being equal, your roster conveyed an advantage for the reasons I outlined and you ignored.
I strongly disagree and I didn't ignore anything. I even saw that you had a DR + Malak team, which I have yet to be able to beat (either for lack of a counter or lack of skill). If you and I was matchef against each other, I would probably only clear 2 zones + 1 additional team, while you would clear all my zones. All you need is your Malak team on defense, all your strongest (8-10) other teams on offense and 7 crap teams on defense. YOU have the advantage roster-wise. If you would manage to loose against me, it would NOT be due to the match-making algorithm. It would be due to bad strategy on your side. Don't blame it on match-making.
Yet again:
My personal roster and yours are irrelevant to our discussion. We were not matched against each other. If we were, YOU would have the advantage rosterwise - not I, as you so falsely keep claiming.
All this discussion of my roster has not provided one single line that supports your claim.
Waqui may be right about his ability to beat his roster with my roster. Based on the number of rounds he's won and the number of defensive holds he has, he probably places a very strong defense and hopes to win by clearing a single zone while his opponent fails.
You're hillarious. How often do you see this happening in my bracket - that some player can't even clear one zone?
You're right, it wouldn't matter despite your squad advantage in a 16 squad format.
What advantage? Our top-80 have similar GP. You have the advantage gear-wise, mod-wise and you have Malak - not I. You're not reading your numbers right, dude.
Again:
What does all this have to do with your topic and our discussion? Why are your roster and mine important? We didn't get matched.
Ok guys @cannonfodder_iv and @Halx are 100% correct in their thought process and I agree. If you can not see this then you folks have your heads stuck in the sand.
There are certainly flaws w GAC atm. Matchmaking would be number 1. No point to set this up as a "championship" where rank is supposed to mean something. Then in the next breath set an algorithm to force good players to draw 7 stud ga players w these massive rosters (and btw everyone is assuming people w large roster have bad mods... why?). While a sucky ga player matches 7 sucky ga players and they love tap each other back and forth and end up w equal rewards/rank as the good group.
If cg does not fix this matchmaking I will uninstall app. Not interested in a game that tries to spoon feed bad players rewards. While I have to go vs mega whale kracken every round.
Btw cg I beat all those division 1 whales you set me up w and I would like division 1 rewards not division 2. Thank you.
Ok guys @cannonfodder_iv and @Halx are 100% correct in their thought process and I agree. If you can not see this then you folks have your heads stuck in the sand.
cannonfodder's argument is severely flawed. If you cannot see this, you have your head stuck in the sand.
Furthermore, as already explained, if some players with 'focused' rosters are a couple of teams short, they will easily build those teams and then move ahead again.
It is blatantly obvious why you feel the way you do... you would never compete under original matchmaking.
How could you expect to when you ignore mods and make bad choices on where you spend resources. On top of it you have cleared only 9 rounds of ga... you struggle hard with this game mode. Not sure any amount of cg spoon feeding you cupcake opponents will make you good at ga...
And the point isnt to make people that are bad at ga look like they are good anyways. Some people are just not great gamers.
ROFL. Go read the original GA megathread. Waqui was one of the biggest defenders of the original system.
Let's leave it out with calling people out please, edited the quote to remove the image.
Well in that case I agree. He seemed to oppose from what I read here. The original is closer to what is needed for a championship set up not this new mm...
Well in that case I agree. He seemed to oppose from what I read here. The original is closer to what is needed for a championship set up not this new mm...
The original was fine. This one is as well. The complainers probably just need a month or two to adapt to the changes. Some adapt faster than others.
@Waqui I apologize for making it personal by bringing your roster into play. My intention with highlighting your roster was to try to illustrate how the characters below the 80 toon cutoff matter because they help create coherent squads, but are not included in the matchmaking algorithm. As it turned out, you and I have the same "relevant GP" and your roster looks a lot like the rosters I'm currently facing, despite the GP differential. I thought I could get you to understand my point better if I put it in more concrete terms that were meaningful to you. I was wrong. I was just trying to engage you in a meaningful way.
What difference does all this make in our discussion?
What's my personal roster got to do with our discussion?
Yet, you ignored this and continued down that path.
My intention with highlighting your roster was to try to illustrate how the characters below the 80 toon cutoff matter because they help create coherent squads, but are not included in the matchmaking algorithm.
Your first 'analysis' of my roster - even before you posted the comparison from the discord bot - was so flawed and erroneous, that I fail to see how this was truly your intention. In an honest first 'analysis' you would have concluded that your roster had the advantage (Malak, more g12 characters than I and plenty of g11 characters to go with this).
As it turned out, you and I have the same "relevant GP" and your roster looks a lot like the rosters I'm currently facing, despite the GP differential. I thought I could get you to understand my point better if I put it in more concrete terms that were meaningful to you.
And you thought, you would do this by giving such a kiss poor analysis of my roster, and wrap theories of how I play GA / GAC? For real?
I'm quite sure, I understood your very first post. I simply don't agree with you. Yes, I still believe, that the match-making algorithm should include total character GP (total roster GP if ships are included), but for a very different reason than what you discuss here: Each and every character could be 'relevant' depending on the scenario - yes, even placing a Chewie defense is a viable winning strategy in a particular scenario.
Yes, I do realise that the changes to the algorithm may affect you slightly (I don't believe it's really that much) but as I previously commented in this thread:
If you are a few strong teams short currently, you will build those quite fast, and then be ahead of most of your opponents again in that aspect as well. Adapt. That's what other players do. You will be fine.
Well in that case I agree. He seemed to oppose from what I read here. The original is closer to what is needed for a championship set up not this new mm...
I still belive, that match-making should take total character GP into account and not only 'relevant' character GP - at least in GACs that include ships, since in a particular scenario, setting a weak character defense is a viable winning strategy. Your complete roster could be relevant - not just your top <defensive slots> x 5 x 2 characters.
It comes down to this. If a person wins in GAC, the match-making is fair. If a person loses in GAC, the matching-making was unfair (insert rationalizations).
Now some players got used to winning under the old match-making, and when the 'rules' changed on match-making, they didn't win as much. The real problem lies in the fact no one wants their golden goose taken away from them even if it's to better the game overall. Let's be honest. No one cares about anyone else's gaming experience. Players really only care about their 'own' experience. And as long as they are winning, everything is right in the world.
what an ugly thing to say... does this mean we're not friends anymore?
It comes down to this. If a person wins in GAC, the match-making is fair. If a person loses in GAC, the matching-making was unfair (insert rationalizations).
Now some players got used to winning under the old match-making, and when the 'rules' changed on match-making, they didn't win as much. The real problem lies in the fact no one wants their golden goose taken away from them even if it's to better the game overall. Let's be honest. No one cares about anyone else's gaming experience. Players really only care about their 'own' experience. And as long as they are winning, everything is right in the world.
What a miserable and narcissistic view of the world. Can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think that's true. I looked forward to challenging matches and was really impressed when I lost under the old format. The best part of the game was finding players of similar skill that loved the game and loved to talk about matches after they were decided. Obv. not everyone feels the same.
Thank you so much for you comment, as I totally agree with you! I’m starting to be disgusted by the game because of this matchmaking, which I absolutely don’t understand!
I’m facing oponents which have mini 3.7M PG, while I only have 3M PG, with absolutely no possibility to win (they all have minimum 2 full G12 teams more than me), usually 10 more zeta, they are all in the division above me! How are we suppose to win against them seriously?
I am very disappointed about this matchmaking which is a total nonsense... When are you going to propose a matchmaking which finally makes sense?
Replies
But, I agree with you about one thing. This matchmaking algorithm against a player like you probably wouldn't matter. I hadn't looked at your GA performance and mods prior to my last post, so I thought that, all things being equal, your roster conveyed an advantage for the reasons I outlined and you ignored. But after looking at our actual matchup:
[Let's leave out the statshaming, there's no need for it ~Rtas ]
You're right, it wouldn't matter despite your squad advantage in a 16 squad format. And I still wouldn't place Malak, I'd just beat you on banners because you either don't know how to win on offense or don't leave enough on offense to win.
On the strategy front, for anyone out there reading that wants an opinion from someone who has actually won a GA, placing Malak in a front zone and expecting to block the back can work against lesser players. I would only do it if your're comfortable with your own JKR counter against DR AND your CLS counter to JKR. That gives you the cover you need to clear in the event your defense gets beaten.
Waqui may be right about his ability to beat his roster with my roster. Based on the number of rounds he's won and the number of defensive holds he has, he probably places a very strong defense and hopes to win by clearing a single zone while his opponent fails. Again, looking at the number of rounds won, it doesn't look like that's a successful strategy, but there it is. He would probably place his opinion on the four best defensive squads in the front row and with his mods, he's most likely right, I wouldn't be able to clear them.
Against my actual first round competition...that strategy would have gotten be curb stomped.
Edit: typo
You don't see, that you would have the advantage roster wise, if we were to battle in GAC, and there's nothing anyone can do about that.
I strongly disagree and I didn't ignore anything. I even saw that you had a DR + Malak team, which I have yet to be able to beat (either for lack of a counter or lack of skill). If you and I was matchef against each other, I would probably only clear 2 zones + 1 additional team, while you would clear all my zones. All you need is your Malak team on defense, all your strongest (8-10) other teams on offense and 7 crap teams on defense. YOU have the advantage roster-wise. If you would manage to loose against me, it would NOT be due to the match-making algorithm. It would be due to bad strategy on your side. Don't blame it on match-making.
Yet again:
My personal roster and yours are irrelevant to our discussion. We were not matched against each other. If we were, YOU would have the advantage rosterwise - not I, as you so falsely keep claiming.
All this discussion of my roster has not provided one single line that supports your claim.
You're hillarious. How often do you see this happening in my bracket - that some player can't even clear one zone?
What advantage? Our top-80 have similar GP. You have the advantage gear-wise, mod-wise and you have Malak - not I. You're not reading your numbers right, dude.
Again:
What does all this have to do with your topic and our discussion? Why are your roster and mine important? We didn't get matched.
There are certainly flaws w GAC atm. Matchmaking would be number 1. No point to set this up as a "championship" where rank is supposed to mean something. Then in the next breath set an algorithm to force good players to draw 7 stud ga players w these massive rosters (and btw everyone is assuming people w large roster have bad mods... why?). While a sucky ga player matches 7 sucky ga players and they love tap each other back and forth and end up w equal rewards/rank as the good group.
If cg does not fix this matchmaking I will uninstall app. Not interested in a game that tries to spoon feed bad players rewards. While I have to go vs mega whale kracken every round.
Btw cg I beat all those division 1 whales you set me up w and I would like division 1 rewards not division 2. Thank you.
cannonfodder's argument is severely flawed. If you cannot see this, you have your head stuck in the sand.
Furthermore, as already explained, if some players with 'focused' rosters are a couple of teams short, they will easily build those teams and then move ahead again.
There's a bot for Discord, which can give you this comparison.
ROFL. Go read the original GA megathread. Waqui was one of the biggest defenders of the original system.
Let's leave it out with calling people out please, edited the quote to remove the image.
The original was fine. This one is as well. The complainers probably just need a month or two to adapt to the changes. Some adapt faster than others.
Good luck in your future GoH endeavors.
My personal roster was completely irrelevant for this discussion, right from your first mention:
Your next mention:
Yet, you ignored this and continued down that path.
Your first 'analysis' of my roster - even before you posted the comparison from the discord bot - was so flawed and erroneous, that I fail to see how this was truly your intention. In an honest first 'analysis' you would have concluded that your roster had the advantage (Malak, more g12 characters than I and plenty of g11 characters to go with this).
And you thought, you would do this by giving such a kiss poor analysis of my roster, and wrap theories of how I play GA / GAC? For real?
I'm quite sure, I understood your very first post. I simply don't agree with you. Yes, I still believe, that the match-making algorithm should include total character GP (total roster GP if ships are included), but for a very different reason than what you discuss here: Each and every character could be 'relevant' depending on the scenario - yes, even placing a Chewie defense is a viable winning strategy in a particular scenario.
Yes, I do realise that the changes to the algorithm may affect you slightly (I don't believe it's really that much) but as I previously commented in this thread:
If you are a few strong teams short currently, you will build those quite fast, and then be ahead of most of your opponents again in that aspect as well. Adapt. That's what other players do. You will be fine.
I still belive, that match-making should take total character GP into account and not only 'relevant' character GP - at least in GACs that include ships, since in a particular scenario, setting a weak character defense is a viable winning strategy. Your complete roster could be relevant - not just your top <defensive slots> x 5 x 2 characters.
Now some players got used to winning under the old match-making, and when the 'rules' changed on match-making, they didn't win as much. The real problem lies in the fact no one wants their golden goose taken away from them even if it's to better the game overall. Let's be honest. No one cares about anyone else's gaming experience. Players really only care about their 'own' experience. And as long as they are winning, everything is right in the world.
What a miserable and narcissistic view of the world. Can't speak for anyone else, but I don't think that's true. I looked forward to challenging matches and was really impressed when I lost under the old format. The best part of the game was finding players of similar skill that loved the game and loved to talk about matches after they were decided. Obv. not everyone feels the same.
I’m facing oponents which have mini 3.7M PG, while I only have 3M PG, with absolutely no possibility to win (they all have minimum 2 full G12 teams more than me), usually 10 more zeta, they are all in the division above me! How are we suppose to win against them seriously?
I am very disappointed about this matchmaking which is a total nonsense... When are you going to propose a matchmaking which finally makes sense?