Grand Arena Championships - summary and current state
Following the sentiment on forums I would like to chime in and sum up all the problems and provide solutions for GAC going forward. Personally I think there are too many threads atm, so I wanted to summarize everything in one.
Currently there are 3 main issues with Grand Arena Championships:
Bottom line - GAC is a great inititive and overwhelming majority of player base loves it, but it's heavily unbalanced. There is only so far this horse can pull the cart until it dies from exhaustion. The ball is now in your court CG - @CG_TopHat @CG_SBCrumb
Currently there are 3 main issues with Grand Arena Championships:
- Matchmaking
- GP - This is the biggest issue. To start off I want to say that there is no perfect system that satisfies all. Unless we implement an ELO system and give everybody access to same teams and mods, there will always be imbalance. Everyone that thinks that matching ppl with similar GP AND access to same units is the solution is delusional. Only mods will become a factor and ppl will get bored after a week, because every GA round will be a mirror match.
Current system is much better than previous one, because it creates a much more competitve environment. The main differenciator now is comparing GP of set number of characters from player rosters (80 for Div 1/2, 60 for Div 3/4 and so on). This puts lower GP players at a disadvantage, because of much lesser roster flexibility. From experience I can say that to clear opponents board you have to use more than 1 team per fight, so including 2-5 teams in initial GP matchmaking (depending on division) would present a much more fair fight.
- G13 power - current matchmaking doesn't take this into account and it should, since strength gained from g13 finishers is significant, but it doesn't reflect in GP. Devs suggested increasing GP gain from g12 gear pieces, but it won't solve the problem. There will still be matches where GP among players will be similar, but one will have 4-7 more than the other, because he was more focused on them or paid for it (happened to me a couple of times). The best solution for this is hardcodding max difference in g13 units into matchmaking algorithm - to me it's between 3-5. But in the end any change that takes this into account will be an improvement. - Rankings
As currently constructed rankings have no meaning and purpose. They don't present best players in each division. Devs suggested closing each division and pairing ppl only within it, but that wouldn't solve current problem of weak rosters being in top of rankings. Two things need to change for ranking to be viable:
- Incentivise defenses - current system only promotes players focusing heavily on offense. Sure you need some semblence of defense to best out your opponent, but as rankings and public feedback shows, because of limited rosters (especially in lower divisions or in a huge GP mismatch), players focus heavily on being more efficient on offense than deploying stout defense. A solution to this is awarding a small ammount of points for each defended territory and successful team defence. This would award and promote those players that "play both sides of the court". However incentives shouldn't be as high as successful offensive wins, so ppl don't focus solely on setting best teams on defense. Limiting defensive points to 30-50% of those you get for playing offense seems like a reasonable solution.
- Feats and league progression - point requirement for Kyber and lower leagues in Divisions 3 and lower are undervalued compared to Div 1/2. Optimal points per round in Div 1/2 is 1920 compared to 1560 in Div 3/4, this ratio generates 28,5k points requirement for Div 3/4 Kyber league (derived from 35,5k for Div 1/2). However this doesn't factor in points awarded for winning round as well as feats - both of which don't scale with divisions, so it's much easier for players in lower divisions to reach Kyber and other leagues. If we take all possible points then Div 3/4 Kyber requirements should be at around 31k points (I won't bore anybody with more math). This would be fair.
In the same vein - feats don't scale with divisions, which is ok and good, but requirements for them should be easier to obtain for lower GP players. Just recently we got a "win 14 GA matches" feat when last GA event started, but it exceeded number of battles in all 3 rounds for lower divisions, so it was unattainable for them. - Rewards
The overlapping sentiment throughout community is that rewards aren't worth the effort. If we compare current weekly rewards to previous iteration of GA, they have been nerfed - we receive 670 mod energy and 1650 guild currency less than previously (only compating slicing materials). That is a huge difference.
New addition are GAC tokens, however counting them together with other rewards is wrong. They are here to support g13 finisher farm. Please remember that current g12+ farming spots are only temporary and were added to jump start g13 revolution. After they are removed only GAC shop remains as main source of those.
When it comes to end of season rankings there will only be max 2-3k players in each Kyber league, so 20-30k players across all divisions. Given that we have at least roughly around 500k players participating in GAC - we can estimate that over 90% of player base will receive at best 2,1k GAC tokens for a 4 week event, that equals 20x g12+ salvages for a monthly event. You can get additional 1150 on a weekly basis, but it's for selected few. They will get on average around 5,5-6k GAC tokens each month and that is... one g12+ prototype piece - 1/5th of g13 finisher. And that is only awarded to selected few - around 5-7% of player base. Current GAC rewards are horrendous - period. They have to be 3-4x more to actually be of any significant value.
Bottom line - GAC is a great inititive and overwhelming majority of player base loves it, but it's heavily unbalanced. There is only so far this horse can pull the cart until it dies from exhaustion. The ball is now in your court CG - @CG_TopHat @CG_SBCrumb
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Replies
Now tell me that I don't belong at second place!
**** off and frustrated
sincerely
FACE SMASHER.
It was alreaedy written there, numerous times, that in case of a draw - in wins or points - player GP is a defining factor, higher one wins. And of course it's GP that is registered at start of GA, not at end.
Is it fair - no, is it meaningful - no. Everybody skips it, unless you get a point draw and loose beaus of it.
True, but what you see is only cosmetics, it has no bearing on rewards and standings. It only takes into account wins and GP afterwards.
Places 2-4 get the same rewards. It doesn't matter where you place in that range.
OP, while I don't agree with everything you wrote, that's a well written summary of concerns.
A shame it was moved from general discussion to this one. It won't get any recognition and die naturally tomorrow. So many meaningless threads there and something with value that can start a debate is shoved aside.
Yes and no.
You're right that if you win 2 and loose in final , you should be second, but at the same time - matchmaking in 8man group is random, so it can happen that 2 best players are paired against each other in round 1.
So is it fair that second best player in group is penalized by rng ? NO. That's why equalization of standing after round 3 is fair imo. Everyonee won 2 matches and get same rewards, standings doesn't matter.
It’s the opposite of a big deal since it affects nothing whatsoever.
That's just how the forum works, for everyone. Anyone using the recent discussions link will see it at the top.
You belong in the 2nd - 4th range, but there is absoloutely no way to determine who of those three performed better. Either of those three could be the stronger player. F.ex. it's possible that all three were at some point matched against the 3/3 winner and lost, while winning their two other rounds. It's also possible that one of the three is actually only the 6th strongest player of the eight, but by chance he was matched against the two weakest players and won before losing his final round.
This is not the cup system. It's not a 7 rounds round-Robin. It's a mix.
Is there smth specific that you're not agreeing with ? I would like to know other ppl opinions, as long as theirs valid ground and solid reasoning behind it.
Thx, my only concern is to make it fair across the board and trying to ignite some constructive debate on this topic, since some of proposed changes we heard from CG during Q/A session aren't gonna solve existing problems. Let's hope more ppl chime in
He's disagreeing that it's a shame that the post was moved or that it being moved means it won't get any recognition and will die. Since people who know how the forum works are perfectly capable of finding it. Like I just did.
TVF, look at the post of yours that he quoted in the response I was responding to.
Seems like an obvious case of poor quoting to me.
Perhaps not.
Guess it doesn't matter.
I would love if that was the case, but in the end this got burried, nothing changed for GA. All those "screamers" got recognition from general chat and CG changed matchmaking by locking divisions, which in turn created another problem I mentioned here - huge g13 disparity. I got matched against a person with 44x g13, having 7 myself.
Their solution didn't provide any remedies, only created new problems.
Where did this get burried?
Your proposal not being implemented has nothing to do with where your thread is located.