Bottleneck of Gear and Omegas

Replies

  • Spang
    247 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    CG has frequently made new gear more available. G12 right side was originally only available in the Sith Raid. Then you could buy with crystals. Now you can buy it in the shops and farm it.

    I was thinking of getting them for 'free' like in raids or GAC. But you're right, I've just checked the Geo TB rewards, and there are Injector salvages as well. We have just never received them so far. (Not that would make an impact, but still...)
  • Liath
    4171 posts Member
    Spang wrote: »
    What bothers me is that G12+ (and perhaps G12 finishers - I don't know, I haven't checked all characters) require the same lower-level bottleneck gear pieces - namely, Stun Cuffs, Carbantis, and Stun Guns - that are required from G8 upwards.

    Finishers don't require any of those 3. The only lower level gear required (aside from kyrotechs) is droid callers and mk8 binocs.
  • Spang
    247 posts Member
    edited August 13
    Liath wrote: »
    Finishers don't require any of those 3. The only lower level gear required (aside from kyrotechs) is droid callers and mk8 binocs.

    Thanks for the info. I feel a little bit better now. :)

    Edit: Not like MK8 Binoculars are not a bottleneck, but at least those aren't G8 gears.
  • It’s ok everyone! They made gear farming easier! They added an ever expansive weekly shipments store that’s is longer than essays that I’ve written

    The weekly shipments are an excellent opportunity to ease the gear farming a bit.
    They could easily have an item in that shop “on sale” each week so that it costs less than normal (either fewer crystals or even use other currency for it). By limiting this to the weekly shop, they could easily control the amount that they release into the game to ensure that it doesn’t “break the economy”. Because they are a 1/week purchase.

    So stun guns as an example: They could ease the crunch a bit by putting 1 fully crafted stun gun in the shop for like 500 crystals, or 50,000 ally points, 2M credits, 1200 galactic war tokens, etc. etc. Next week they could buy an mk8 biotech instead.

    That means than any interested player can buy that one during the week, the crunch is slightly improved but not game breaking since the shipments change weekly and can’t be refreshed. It’s only 1/person that way.
  • I’ll also say, I believe that the grind is getting to be a bit much.

    At one time (not that long ago), you had to farm shards, level up, max abilities and gear a toon to make them useful.
    It’s gotten increasingly more difficult without enough being done to ease the early bottlenecks.

    Now if I want to prepare a toon for the new Tb:
    -I still have to farm the same gear that was a g10 bottleneck, I never have enough of it.
    -Then I need more of it for g12 (“oh, this piece needs a stun gun, a biotech and other stuff?”).
    -I need to put 2-3 zetas on the toon and max his omega abilities.
    -I need 6e mods.
    -I need to farm these new kyrotech pieces starting at earlier gear tiers (a “new and improved” g10 grind, along with the stun guns and other stuff that were there before)
    -I need him at g13 to stand a chance, so a whole new piece to grind out (along with more kynotech).

    It becomes overwhelming to even think about after awhile. I don’t understand why some of this earlier grind can take be eased up for end game players. The grind will still be there along with the paywall to speed through it.

    This I s why people are increasingly claiming that “the game is dying” - It really does feel like they have turned up the paywall to “11” and that it’s not sustainable long-term.

    Soon to come: we will have to grind out an “item” for each toon to max them out further. They claim that this will use up the old gear that we have a ton of - But I have no doubt that after we complete a handful of these items, those 1000s of pieces we have will be gone and we will find ourselves grinding out this low-level gear again, in addition to all of the above.
  • The “bottlenecks” are what keep the game interesting. They force us to make choices and not all have identical rosters. If you aren’t completing whaling then you don’t have anywhere close to the amount of gear to take everyone to g13, and you aren’t meant to.
    Remember that if they double the number of stun guns in the game then your opponents have twice as many too. You now need even higher gear levels than before just to keep pace.
  • TVF
    14356 posts Member
    Pulsipher wrote: »
    The “bottlenecks” are what keep the game interesting. They force us to make choices and not all have identical rosters. If you aren’t completing whaling then you don’t have anywhere close to the amount of gear to take everyone to g13, and you aren’t meant to.
    Remember that if they double the number of stun guns in the game then your opponents have twice as many too. You now need even higher gear levels than before just to keep pace.

    Agreed, and as I've said before, the game rewards spenders and people who manage their resources well. If they reduce a bottleneck, people who manage resources well have their advantage reduced.
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  • TVF wrote: »
    Bottlenecks and crunches benefit spenders and strategic players. Be either one and enjoy your advantage.

    so much strategy involved with gp reqs like malak or Geo TB, amirite? You either buy the dumb abilities or you can't play. Not sure why that isn't evident to you?
  • JDIII
    1195 posts Member
    Omegas don’t have a 1/30 chance to drop from cantina, that info is completely wrong. I wish that number was true because it’s a lot worse than that
  • Liath
    4171 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Bottlenecks and crunches benefit spenders and strategic players. Be either one and enjoy your advantage.

    so much strategy involved with gp reqs like malak or Geo TB, amirite? You either buy the dumb abilities or you can't play. Not sure why that isn't evident to you?

    These are, in fact, precisely the types of scenarios in which good resource management comes into play (which is what is meant by strategic players in this context).
  • As a long time player that never saved his resources. Lived hand to mouth all the time and through resources on toons that shouldn’t of even been close to getting them... I switched my focus to upgrading one team at a time. The results are great. I have a bunch of omegas saved up. They just keep stacking waiting for a new zeta.

    Gear I’m not as good with still. But if it doesn’t go on any seps, it’s there just chilling.

    So as all the comments said above - choose one team to work on and you will save your resources.
  • Angelloyd wrote: »
    Omega isn’t an issue unless you like using those on every character in your roster and every useless skill. And gear crunch will always happen. That’s the way this game is supposed to be. It’s a grind game

    Completely Disagree! With the new toons and endless ZETA's needed to make essential teams viable like GR / NS / DRIODS / the need for OMEGA's has gone through the roof. To add injury to already mortal wound the GA also requires 8 strong defensive teams and 8 attacking. Which means the need has never been more to gear up all your teams to ensure their viability. You obviously don't understand the game very well???
  • It’s ok everyone! They made gear farming easier! They added an ever expansive weekly shipments store that’s is longer than essays that I’ve written
    Gear farming *is* easier. They doubled the energy you get in fleet. If you're talking about one specific piece of gear, then you're basically complaining that there aren't enough F-sharps in a piece of music.
    Spang wrote: »
    Gavsta wrote: »
    I still won't buy omegas though... I suspect new gear and/or omega locations will sprout somewhere... or at least I hope!

    I don't really believe that CG will make the new gear more available. I would be content if they made getting old gear easier.
    I mean......... They did.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • JDIII
    1195 posts Member
    They didn’t make farming stun guns easier, it’s a lot harder now
  • TVF
    14356 posts Member
    JDIII wrote: »
    They didn’t make farming stun guns easier, it’s a lot harder now

    How many did you get a day from fleet? Fleet energy was expensive before. If you weren't refreshing you couldn't be getting many, and if you were, I'm guessing it would have worked out just as well to just buy with crystals.

    I'll admit that it's a little harder now. I respectfully disagree that it's a lot harder now.
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  • TVF
    14356 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    JDIII wrote: »
    They didn’t make farming stun guns easier, it’s a lot harder now

    How many did you get a day from fleet? Fleet energy was expensive before. If you weren't refreshing you couldn't be getting many, and if you were, I'm guessing it would have worked out just as well to just buy with crystals.

    I'll admit that it's a little harder now. I respectfully disagree that it's a lot harder now.

    To follow up on this, 3x refreshes cost 300 crystals and netted 360 energy. 36 attempts. Assume a 40% drop rate - I don't know the exact rate but I believe they cut it to the normal 20% when they doubled the energy rate, so 40% seems reasonable. 36 x .4 = 14.4. Let's give benefit of the doubt and say 15. 50/15 = 3.33 x 300 crystals = 1000 crystals. It costs a little less than 1300 for 50 in the store. So yes, it's a little harder now. But just a little.
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  • Lio
    546 posts Member
    Angelloyd wrote: »
    Omega isn’t an issue unless you like using those on every character in your roster and every useless skill. And gear crunch will always happen. That’s the way this game is supposed to be. It’s a grind game
    You obviously don't understand the game very well???

    1) That sentence is a statement, not a question. It doesn't need multiple question marks

    2) You can disagree all you want. It's good because it leads to discussion. But just because somebody has a different opinion/experience than you doesn't mean they don't understand the game. Let's stop using that attack, shall we? (<-- appropriate use of question marks)
  • TVF
    14356 posts Member
    Lio wrote: »
    Angelloyd wrote: »
    Omega isn’t an issue unless you like using those on every character in your roster and every useless skill. And gear crunch will always happen. That’s the way this game is supposed to be. It’s a grind game
    You obviously don't understand the game very well???

    1) That sentence is a statement, not a question. It doesn't need multiple question marks

    2) You can disagree all you want. It's good because it leads to discussion. But just because somebody has a different opinion/experience than you doesn't mean they don't understand the game. Let's stop using that attack, shall we? (<-- appropriate use of question marks)

    Stun guns?
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  • Lio
    546 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Lio wrote: »
    Angelloyd wrote: »
    Omega isn’t an issue unless you like using those on every character in your roster and every useless skill. And gear crunch will always happen. That’s the way this game is supposed to be. It’s a grind game
    You obviously don't understand the game very well???

    1) That sentence is a statement, not a question. It doesn't need multiple question marks

    2) You can disagree all you want. It's good because it leads to discussion. But just because somebody has a different opinion/experience than you doesn't mean they don't understand the game. Let's stop using that attack, shall we? (<-- appropriate use of question marks)

    Stun guns?

    Stun guns!
  • Stun Guns ><
    Officer of recruiting for Ewoks Fit In Blenders. Traya & Negotiator on farm. 4 spots open, ask me for an invite.
  • Bring back the fun... give us cheaper gear, 100% drop rates, and more guaranteed omegas.

    Many folks are retiring because it's no fun anymore. If you can't get gear, it's no fun. All these great teams that nobody will get to use because all the characters are gear level 7 & 8 that requires stun guns and carbanti gear.

    Now let's add the gear on new characters that require Crystal's to purchase them, because the rewards are pitiful on the newly cheatable grand arena.

    Thanks for the gear reward of 30 pieces I already have 9072 of and ZERO pieces of the carbanti that I need 5890 of.

    Or maybe it'll will be fun when you get yoda's walking stick...

    My allies are dropping out of the game, I have 24 out of my 50 who have left the game. All for the same reason: Lack of gear rewards in raids, to expensive to buy with crystals. Seriously, what child came up with 2541 crystals for a stun gun? If it was 1,000 or less, it would be doable.

    It will never change-- they don't care... "we know"
  • Hammerhed wrote: »
    Many folks are retiring because it's no fun anymore.

    Many folks are retiring because they've played over 3 years, which is a helluva retention rate for a mobile game, and nothing you can do will keep the game fresh enough for them without also ruining it for new players.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • I think they really haven't quite thought through the effort needed to reach end-game content.

    Don't think of Stun Guns or Omegas in terms of how many you need to be competitive PvP (as some people are talking about, suggesting that it's always just as bad, even if access is doubled or whatever, because your opponents get whatever you get).

    Show your friend who's not involved in the game how cool SWGOH is. Show them the wild-@$$ Acklay battle - which I have to admit is SUPER cool. Or show them how you can solo HAAT and get 30M on HSTR on the same account you used to qualify for the Acklay battle. Now explain it's a resource management game and it will take a while before they can play that end-game content.
    "Sure." Your friend says. "I get that. How long will it take me before I get to play that end game content? I just want to do the kinds of cool things you're doing, the things you're arguing now make the game great."

    "Well, I've been playing 3 years to be able to get 4M GP so that I'm well rounded enough to get good results in vastly different areas of the game like fleet, arena, GeoTB, and two very different raids."

    "Oh, 3 years sounds like a long time. How long before I can play that stuff at all, even if I can't do it as well as you?"

    "Well, there are more ways to earn things than we I started in August 2016, so you'll be able to log in to HAAT in a couple months using a single 7* character, but you won't be able to get a single topple until you put together a more complete team. So "playing" HAAT instead of just logging in? Maybe 8 months."

    "Will I be able to play the GEO TB by then, too?"

    "What? No. They blow you out of the water. Nah, just to win the first encounter in a single battle is going to take just as long as HAAT, and that will be with Palp. No, you can't have a full squad able to win a first encounter in all 4-5 battles on the same GeoTB stage for about 16-18 months."

    "What about the Acklay?"

    "Well, you can get ready for the Acklay in about 16 months as well, but you'll have to sacrifice a bunch of other things to get the 5 x g12 Geonosians together, and drop their zetas on them too."

    "Wait, so, you're saying that I could maybe play this cool battle, not even win it every time, but at least play the content in about a year and a half?"

    "Yeah, but it's hard to get toons to g12 until you reach a bunch of other thresholds, and you have to gear up a bunch of other characters to pilot ships which you also have to farm so that ou can get the zetas or your squad won't even have a chance. So, y'know, maybe 15 months if you're pushing just for Geos, but then you've sabotaged the account for all sorts of other things, and all the other end-game content will take longer."

    "Huh. So I can't even try the cool new stuff for over a year? And then I won't have a chance to win for at least 3 months and that's only if I focus on one thing and make all the other cool stuff take even longer? ... Why would I spend 18 months just waiting for a chance to play the cool bits?"

    And that's the argument for making it easier to get toons from g7 => g10. That's also the argument for not making g12 gear depend on bottleneck gear from g8/g9. Because then if you finally realize that you've got to ease the g8/g9 bottleneck to keep new people interested enough to spend the time slogging before they even get to try the cool stuff, you can't actually ease that bottleneck without easing the g12 bottleneck... which you don't want to do.

    G12 gear shouldn't depend on stun guns or stun cuffs or Mk5 droid callers or anything that you're scrambling to feed your g8/g9 toons. You also need to make sure that people joining the game today have a chance to play (and at least a chance to win!) the battles that are end-game content today before the game is no longer supported.

    If you don't ease old bottlenecks when you add new gear requirements - and thus new gear bottlenecks - at higher tiers, then you're trapping new players into a situation where eventually it will take so long to get to the place where you can play what was end-game content when you started that there's no guarantee that new players will EVER get the chance to play that content successfully.

    And then what do we do:
    Join this game! It's cool! Look at the cool things I can do! Of course, you'll never do them, you'll be stuck playing other events that everyone else looks down on and that no longer gives you what you need to succeed in the game, but play anyway! Why not doom yourself to playing a game that will die before you ever have a decent shot to play all the cool things?

    That advertising just isn't going to work.

    Nope. It's not about the gear crunch for people with over 3M gp right now. It's about whether your game is inviting to people with 0 gp right now.

    From that perspective, the gear crunch at g8/g9 is too hard, and it is a terrible mistake by EA/CG to have made g12+ gear incorporate the same g8/g9 gear currently bottlenecked.

    This is a bad plan. The gear crunch needs to be eased, but EA/CG doesn't have any idea how to do it without messing up g12 requirements, because they designed things badly in the first place.
  • TVF wrote: »
    Bottlenecks and crunches benefit spenders and strategic players. Be either one and enjoy your advantage.

    I have a bottleneck on mk 7 nubian scanners, as they are not farmable anywhere and only show up in the stores irregularly at best can you please explain how that is a boon to strategic players?
  • ottomaddux
    461 posts Member
    edited August 15
    TVF wrote: »
    Stun gun appearance are RNG just like any other gear piece (although the frequency is certainly lower than some other gear). I will go through periods when I can't get a single gun from either GEC or shard stores, then suddenly they show up in droves. It's all RNG. There's been no reduction in the rate.

    I'd like to see your data on this. Just like people who make a claim that rates have dropped have to show their data, people who make the claim that there has been no reduction in rate and that it falls within RNG have to be able to back that up with data.
    Otherwise they are just spouting nonsense.
  • TVF wrote: »
    VonZant wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Stun gun appearance are RNG just like any other gear piece (although the frequency is certainly lower than some other gear). I will go through periods when I can't get a single gun from either GEC or shard stores, then suddenly they show up in droves. It's all RNG. There's been no reduction in the rate.

    When is the last time you got one from Rancor? I can't recall one in 6 months. Also they severely nerfed the ability to farm them by removing the from fleet store.

    Coupled with the fact that many are needed for g8-11 and their availability has been reduced while the character pool and need has been increased.

    Also RNG, it has been several weeks for us, but we had a stretch where we got a bunch of salvage. It comes and goes.

    again need to see the data or you are just making it up.
  • Moonlight0911
    12 posts Member
    edited August 15
    QOP raises a legit concern for many players, especially those following sub-meta, and doesn't need to be stonewalled. Additional gear would not give anyone an unfair advantage, but simply provide similar or the same relative increase in parallel with the increased demand (more required Zetas, more Zetas per character, etc).

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  • Liath
    4171 posts Member
    ottomaddux wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Stun gun appearance are RNG just like any other gear piece (although the frequency is certainly lower than some other gear). I will go through periods when I can't get a single gun from either GEC or shard stores, then suddenly they show up in droves. It's all RNG. There's been no reduction in the rate.

    I'd like to see your data on this. Just like people who make a claim that rates have dropped have to show their data, people who make the claim that there has been no reduction in rate and that it falls within RNG have to be able to back that up with data.
    Otherwise they are just spouting nonsense.

    The burden of proof is on those claiming that something has changed.
  • TVF
    14356 posts Member
    ottomaddux wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Bottlenecks and crunches benefit spenders and strategic players. Be either one and enjoy your advantage.

    I have a bottleneck on mk 7 nubian scanners, as they are not farmable anywhere and only show up in the stores irregularly at best can you please explain how that is a boon to strategic players?

    Mk7 nubian scanners show up very frequently in the guild store.
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  • TVF
    14356 posts Member
    edited August 15
    ottomaddux wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Stun gun appearance are RNG just like any other gear piece (although the frequency is certainly lower than some other gear). I will go through periods when I can't get a single gun from either GEC or shard stores, then suddenly they show up in droves. It's all RNG. There's been no reduction in the rate.

    I'd like to see your data on this. Just like people who make a claim that rates have dropped have to show their data, people who make the claim that there has been no reduction in rate and that it falls within RNG have to be able to back that up with data.
    Otherwise they are just spouting nonsense.

    As stated above, I didn't make the claim.

    If you prefer, I will change my statement from "there's been no reduction in the rate" to "there's no data to prove there's been a reduction in the rate."
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