Perhaps a bit off topic, but for my hard node farms I only ever pay for one refresh on the node. That may be why during double drop events I only stay with that one refresh. To refresh more than that, the price doubles which effectively negates the double drops. Or am I missing something?
Your math is correct to your situation. But another way of looking at it is, your first refresh during 2x is effectively half price and the second is regular price. So if you felt that “x possible shards for y crystals” was a good deal yesterday, then today during double drops you can double your nose refreshes for the same “cost per attempt”.
Also many others do more than 1 node refresh daily, so for them the same math applies and they can further increase their number of node refreshes for the same “value”.
Give CG a break. They are working from home, giving the coronavirus situation.
Just be happy that we got something for once.
So, because they're working from home, legit criticism and questions should be censored? I've been working from home due to the current climate but that doesn't mean that I would not be held accountable to a clear oversight and answer questions as a result. Given that 5/4 comes by every year and CG plans ahead, even just a whisper of communication would have been ideal.
Also considering the Malak fiasco and other like issues, I don't understand teh line of thought that we should "just be happy" with a solution that drives away from the intent of fair gameplay for all. Just my 2 cents.
Food for thought...
Yup. Working from home also and held to account for every line of code. Also it's not day one. It's however many weeks we've been on lockdown. Even those who have never worked like this before are passed the hump now and working at close to full capacity again.
I was personally effected by this, and tbh I don't really care because my current farms aren't that important. But that's not everyone's position and some people got the wrong end of the pooh stick.
It's a legitimate point to raise. But I think we're well past the point now where "Cut them slack, they're working from home" is a legitimate defence.
Final Thought: This rollout, quality wise, has been smooth. Some advance communication about the node change would have been ideal. But if that's the only f* up, does that mean remote working is actually improving CG's work/delivery?
Perhaps a bit off topic, but for my hard node farms I only ever pay for one refresh on the node. That may be why during double drop events I only stay with that one refresh. To refresh more than that, the price doubles which effectively negates the double drops. Or am I missing something?
When we are on the 5 sim cap, 10 attempts cost you the energy and 25 crystals. With the 33% drop rate, you’re likely to earn 3 shards for those 25 crystals, or roughly 8 crystals per shard. For most Desirable toons, you’re looking at a store price of 80 crystals per shard.
If you refresh again, that’s 75 crystals for 15 attempts (5 shards), so now we’re at 15 crystals per shard. Which is not as good value as 10 attempts, but still vastly better value than the store.
With double drops, you’re getting even better value on 10 attempts (4 crystals per shard), and better value on 15 attempts (7.5 crystals per shard).
The maths is similar on 8 attempts.
But it’s not just about value: restricting to one refresh a day means you might take longer than others to finish a toon. And that might have an opportunity cost that totally outweighs the value in the first place.
But in all seriousness, a few extra dbl drop attempts doesnt really put a player at an "advantage" given it's all rng and were just talking character shards or lesser gear pieces. If it was cantina nodes and dbl drops on relic mats were a thing then I'd agree itd be a disadvantage (again I feel odd using that as every player is at a unique spot but at least relic mats have stronger impact that can be applied more readily), but to those in north America you at least got doubles on the increased nodes for half the day
I still don't see how that is the companies problem. They spent their money on something they found value in. That value is somehow diminished because a deal dropped afterward? Sounds like whining for whining sake to me
Wait you mean a game developed in one of the most self centered nations on the planet didn't reward its playerbase equally? Gotta love US capitalism
This was meant as more of a joke, of course the US's political leaning have no bearing on this game. Its kind of ludicrous to believe.
Like believing the dev's did this purposely to disresepect you. This is just as a result of when they applied the rewards. Imo it should have been earlier. But it feels more like they didn't really consider the impact as opposed to purposely blatantly hurting a large portion of their consumer base.
And I know, its CG and they have not been great; but they're not going to purposely mess up like stated above being generous on the biggest star wars day of the year.
If a company had a deal on 5/4/20 where you get certain perks or whatever and people spend their money on it, only to be told “oh hey the last hour of the day, you can get even more for your money, but no refunds and if you already spent then you’re out of luck”, you’d be mad wouldn’t you?
Or is that just whining
Just whining.
The part that isn't whining, the part that's a serious issue, is that people a couple thousand miles east of me didn't have any part of this happen on double drop day.
Yes, it's a game. But it's also a competition. We compete in TW, in GAC, in the arenas... And giving an advantage to part of the player base but not the whole player base isn't fair.
Now, I spent some on refreshes before the change to 8 attempts. If I had done all my refreshes later in the day, I could have gotten more out of things. But... I still had a chance, and I still was able to take advantage for some of my refreshes. I am able to see the unfairness in the difference.
So you think it’s whining but also think that it’s a problem that many people did not get to utilize the extra attempts on the double drop day and missed out on a whole day of extra attempts because of their time zones....
So you agree but think it’s whining...hmmm ok?
You obviously didn't read what I wrote in context. The comment to which I had replied didn't mention the actual unfairness at all - the difference in opportunity between geographic regions. Here, I'll quote it again:
If a company had a deal on 5/4/20 where you get certain perks or whatever and people spend their money on it, only to be told “oh hey the last hour of the day, you can get even more for your money, but no refunds and if you already spent then you’re out of luck”, you’d be mad wouldn’t you?
Or is that just whining
That part is just whining. Just because a company lowers the price on something after you bought, there's no unfairness. Airplanes do this all the time in weird ways. As you get closer to take off time, they raise the price, and then in the last 24 hours if the plane is too empty, they'll do a flash sale. But you can't know whether or not a plane will be full. So most people buy their seats in advance to make sure they get where they're going on time ... but the airline would rather you pay 50 or 100 bucks each way, even if that's really cheap, than leave the seat empty. So people who wait around until the last minute get the same flight for less money.
That's life and that's not unfair. It makes sense for the passengers to buy in advance and it makes sense for the airline to sell unused seats at a discount at the very last minute.
The part that's unfair, the part about CG making it possible for some people to get the extra attempts during double drops while other people didn't get even the opportunity if they just delayed on doing their sims til the last minute. There wasn't even that chance. But the quoted complaint didn't mention that. So the quoted complaint IS just whining, even though there are other complaints that are NOT just whining.
This isn't rocket science. If someone wanted to complain that all their crystals are purple when they wanted rainbow crystals, they're just whining. If CG started selling crystals at an 80% discount to women players, then a player complaining about that would not be whining.
Whether a complaint is whining or not depends on the complaint. The complaint you wrote and I quoted was just whining. That doesn't mean that there are zero issues with the game, however.
You obviously didn't read what I wrote in context. The comment to which I had replied didn't mention the actual unfairness at all - the difference in opportunity between geographic regions. Here, I'll quote it again:
If a company had a deal on 5/4/20 where you get certain perks or whatever and people spend their money on it, only to be told “oh hey the last hour of the day, you can get even more for your money, but no refunds and if you already spent then you’re out of luck”, you’d be mad wouldn’t you?
Or is that just whining
That part is just whining. Just because a company lowers the price on something after you bought, there's no unfairness. Airplanes do this all the time in weird ways. As you get closer to take off time, they raise the price, and then in the last 24 hours if the plane is too empty, they'll do a flash sale. But you can't know whether or not a plane will be full. So most people buy their seats in advance to make sure they get where they're going on time ... but the airline would rather you pay 50 or 100 bucks each way, even if that's really cheap, than leave the seat empty. So people who wait around until the last minute get the same flight for less money.
That's life and that's not unfair. It makes sense for the passengers to buy in advance and it makes sense for the airline to sell unused seats at a discount at the very last minute.
The part that's unfair, the part about CG making it possible for some people to get the extra attempts during double drops while other people didn't get even the opportunity if they just delayed on doing their sims til the last minute. There wasn't even that chance. But the quoted complaint didn't mention that. So the quoted complaint IS just whining, even though there are other complaints that are NOT just whining.
This isn't rocket science. If someone wanted to complain that all their crystals are purple when they wanted rainbow crystals, they're just whining. If CG started selling crystals at an 80% discount to women players, then a player complaining about that would not be whining.
Whether a complaint is whining or not depends on the complaint. The complaint you wrote and I quoted was just whining. That doesn't mean that there are zero issues with the game, however.
Then clearly you weren’t reading the whole discussion. It was a comparative comment to get someone to see the main point at hand.
Whether it was a new day, or an hour left in the day, those players did not get to utilize the extra attempts in all their refreshes and double drop day. We agree on that, so arguing whether or not a comparative situation is whining is just detracting from the main point that, again, CG dropped the ball and alienated a massive chunk of their playerbase
Its not about value of crystal spending or whatever. This is a competitive game, and CG just handed us an uneven playing field.
Bingo. It's one thing to make a "galactic legend" nearly unbeatable to feed the whales. We knew about this months in advance. Heck, we could even almost forgive the almost blasphemous need to r5 Rose. But at least that was level set for a while and it was the same for all.
Imagine that she was required to be r7 and zeta'd then a week after launch it was changed to r5. That's more comparable to this, IMO. This is not a matter of them not delivering on what was promised but rather creating an uneven playing field after the fact.
CG's biggest problem is communication. And oftentimes oversight. Just my 2 cents.
Having said that, I am happy, overall, with the extra rewards and events
Then clearly you weren’t reading the whole discussion. It was a comparative comment to get someone to see the main point at hand.
In fact, I had read the whole discussion, and actually understood it. The complaint that has merit isn't that the price changed. The complaint that had merit was something else, which required comparing differential opportunity. In your complaint, every hypothetical person had the same hypothetical opportunity, but some bought before a change in price and some bought after. That's entirely on those individuals for their choices, and thus the complaint is just whining.
If you had understood where the fundamental unfairness lies, you would never have written your metaphor the way you did. But you did write it that way, and I had every reason to believe that you'd entirely missed the point of the one true and valid complaint. If you wanted to make a "comparative comment to get someone to see the main point at hand", then you would have written a comment that focussed not on changing the price for a single customer, but changing the price for different customers in different time zones, since the only legitimate complaint is found there. "The main point at hand" was actually nowhere in your analogy.
Saying now that you totes understood it and that you just wrote a complaint that didn't address the real point because everyone else had already done that and asking why shouldn't you have written a completely misguided, non-analogous complaint and get mad at people for taking it as if it was your actual complaint ... well, that's just blaming other people for something that's actually your fault: your choice to write a bad analogy.
Then clearly you weren’t reading the whole discussion. It was a comparative comment to get someone to see the main point at hand.
In fact, I had read the whole discussion, and actually understood it. The complaint that has merit isn't that the price changed. The complaint that had merit was something else, which required comparing differential opportunity. In your complaint, every hypothetical person had the same hypothetical opportunity, but some bought before a change in price and some bought after. That's entirely on those individuals for their choices, and thus the complaint is just whining.
If you had understood where the fundamental unfairness lies, you would never have written your metaphor the way you did. But you did write it that way, and I had every reason to believe that you'd entirely missed the point of the one true and valid complaint. If you wanted to make a "comparative comment to get someone to see the main point at hand", then you would have written a comment that focussed not on changing the price for a single customer, but changing the price for different customers in different time zones, since the only legitimate complaint is found there. "The main point at hand" was actually nowhere in your analogy.
Saying now that you totes understood it and that you just wrote a complaint that didn't address the real point because everyone else had already done that and asking why shouldn't you have written a completely misguided, non-analogous complaint and get mad at people for taking it as if it was your actual complaint ... well, that's just blaming other people for something that's actually your fault: your choice to write a bad analogy.
Which, come to think of it, is just whining.
Sigh, another topic, another back and forth with Speedy...here we go again.
My analogy wasn’t about a differing of price. I didn’t talk about someone buying something for $5 only for another person to get it for $1. The airlines, and everything else you mentioned, that’s different, when the quality or the availability also deteriorates with the value but that’s another topic.
The point you say holds merit actually is the same to what I said. Here’s the breakdown:
Let’s say 90% of the player base spent 2500 crystals on refreshes for node attempts and energy during double drops. They got x amount of node attempts because of the available maximum attempts. They were not told nor had any reason to believe that there would be maximum attempts at a later time, or even got the chance to do so. Quite the contrary in previous Q&A’s the devs explicitly said node attempts would not be increasing again. Still with me?
Now after 90% of the player base either maxed out their crystal cache’s spent money or whatever, or even after 5/4/20 even passed, CG increased the nodes and claimed it was to be done starting on 5/4, when not only a large chunk of the player base were already a day after the double drops, but those in later time zones were either asleep, maxed out, used their daily energy, or whatever. They got hosed: which ties into the analogy of “hey in the last hour of the day, only a small percentage even get the chance to get this extra bit for the same money” as well as “others get more bang for their crystals.
So it all ties in together. Your failure of perception, again, doesn’t deter from the main point we agree on that CG dropped the ball and gave an unfair advantage to people comparative to its overall player base. So if you want to keep making a mountain out of a mole hill, then by all means continue
Replies
Your math is correct to your situation. But another way of looking at it is, your first refresh during 2x is effectively half price and the second is regular price. So if you felt that “x possible shards for y crystals” was a good deal yesterday, then today during double drops you can double your nose refreshes for the same “cost per attempt”.
Also many others do more than 1 node refresh daily, so for them the same math applies and they can further increase their number of node refreshes for the same “value”.
Yup. Working from home also and held to account for every line of code. Also it's not day one. It's however many weeks we've been on lockdown. Even those who have never worked like this before are passed the hump now and working at close to full capacity again.
I was personally effected by this, and tbh I don't really care because my current farms aren't that important. But that's not everyone's position and some people got the wrong end of the pooh stick.
It's a legitimate point to raise. But I think we're well past the point now where "Cut them slack, they're working from home" is a legitimate defence.
Final Thought: This rollout, quality wise, has been smooth. Some advance communication about the node change would have been ideal. But if that's the only f* up, does that mean remote working is actually improving CG's work/delivery?
If you refresh again, that’s 75 crystals for 15 attempts (5 shards), so now we’re at 15 crystals per shard. Which is not as good value as 10 attempts, but still vastly better value than the store.
With double drops, you’re getting even better value on 10 attempts (4 crystals per shard), and better value on 15 attempts (7.5 crystals per shard).
The maths is similar on 8 attempts.
But it’s not just about value: restricting to one refresh a day means you might take longer than others to finish a toon. And that might have an opportunity cost that totally outweighs the value in the first place.
Give with one hand. Slap with the other.
lick those boots. So tasty. mmmm.
This was meant as more of a joke, of course the US's political leaning have no bearing on this game. Its kind of ludicrous to believe.
Like believing the dev's did this purposely to disresepect you. This is just as a result of when they applied the rewards. Imo it should have been earlier. But it feels more like they didn't really consider the impact as opposed to purposely blatantly hurting a large portion of their consumer base.
And I know, its CG and they have not been great; but they're not going to purposely mess up like stated above being generous on the biggest star wars day of the year.
So you think it’s whining but also think that it’s a problem that many people did not get to utilize the extra attempts on the double drop day and missed out on a whole day of extra attempts because of their time zones....
So you agree but think it’s whining...hmmm ok?
You obviously didn't read what I wrote in context. The comment to which I had replied didn't mention the actual unfairness at all - the difference in opportunity between geographic regions. Here, I'll quote it again:
That part is just whining. Just because a company lowers the price on something after you bought, there's no unfairness. Airplanes do this all the time in weird ways. As you get closer to take off time, they raise the price, and then in the last 24 hours if the plane is too empty, they'll do a flash sale. But you can't know whether or not a plane will be full. So most people buy their seats in advance to make sure they get where they're going on time ... but the airline would rather you pay 50 or 100 bucks each way, even if that's really cheap, than leave the seat empty. So people who wait around until the last minute get the same flight for less money.
That's life and that's not unfair. It makes sense for the passengers to buy in advance and it makes sense for the airline to sell unused seats at a discount at the very last minute.
The part that's unfair, the part about CG making it possible for some people to get the extra attempts during double drops while other people didn't get even the opportunity if they just delayed on doing their sims til the last minute. There wasn't even that chance. But the quoted complaint didn't mention that. So the quoted complaint IS just whining, even though there are other complaints that are NOT just whining.
This isn't rocket science. If someone wanted to complain that all their crystals are purple when they wanted rainbow crystals, they're just whining. If CG started selling crystals at an 80% discount to women players, then a player complaining about that would not be whining.
Whether a complaint is whining or not depends on the complaint. The complaint you wrote and I quoted was just whining. That doesn't mean that there are zero issues with the game, however.
Then clearly you weren’t reading the whole discussion. It was a comparative comment to get someone to see the main point at hand.
Whether it was a new day, or an hour left in the day, those players did not get to utilize the extra attempts in all their refreshes and double drop day. We agree on that, so arguing whether or not a comparative situation is whining is just detracting from the main point that, again, CG dropped the ball and alienated a massive chunk of their playerbase
Bingo. It's one thing to make a "galactic legend" nearly unbeatable to feed the whales. We knew about this months in advance. Heck, we could even almost forgive the almost blasphemous need to r5 Rose. But at least that was level set for a while and it was the same for all.
Imagine that she was required to be r7 and zeta'd then a week after launch it was changed to r5. That's more comparable to this, IMO. This is not a matter of them not delivering on what was promised but rather creating an uneven playing field after the fact.
CG's biggest problem is communication. And oftentimes oversight. Just my 2 cents.
Having said that, I am happy, overall, with the extra rewards and events
In fact, I had read the whole discussion, and actually understood it. The complaint that has merit isn't that the price changed. The complaint that had merit was something else, which required comparing differential opportunity. In your complaint, every hypothetical person had the same hypothetical opportunity, but some bought before a change in price and some bought after. That's entirely on those individuals for their choices, and thus the complaint is just whining.
If you had understood where the fundamental unfairness lies, you would never have written your metaphor the way you did. But you did write it that way, and I had every reason to believe that you'd entirely missed the point of the one true and valid complaint. If you wanted to make a "comparative comment to get someone to see the main point at hand", then you would have written a comment that focussed not on changing the price for a single customer, but changing the price for different customers in different time zones, since the only legitimate complaint is found there. "The main point at hand" was actually nowhere in your analogy.
Saying now that you totes understood it and that you just wrote a complaint that didn't address the real point because everyone else had already done that and asking why shouldn't you have written a completely misguided, non-analogous complaint and get mad at people for taking it as if it was your actual complaint ... well, that's just blaming other people for something that's actually your fault: your choice to write a bad analogy.
Which, come to think of it, is just whining.
Sigh, another topic, another back and forth with Speedy...here we go again.
My analogy wasn’t about a differing of price. I didn’t talk about someone buying something for $5 only for another person to get it for $1. The airlines, and everything else you mentioned, that’s different, when the quality or the availability also deteriorates with the value but that’s another topic.
The point you say holds merit actually is the same to what I said. Here’s the breakdown:
Let’s say 90% of the player base spent 2500 crystals on refreshes for node attempts and energy during double drops. They got x amount of node attempts because of the available maximum attempts. They were not told nor had any reason to believe that there would be maximum attempts at a later time, or even got the chance to do so. Quite the contrary in previous Q&A’s the devs explicitly said node attempts would not be increasing again. Still with me?
Now after 90% of the player base either maxed out their crystal cache’s spent money or whatever, or even after 5/4/20 even passed, CG increased the nodes and claimed it was to be done starting on 5/4, when not only a large chunk of the player base were already a day after the double drops, but those in later time zones were either asleep, maxed out, used their daily energy, or whatever. They got hosed: which ties into the analogy of “hey in the last hour of the day, only a small percentage even get the chance to get this extra bit for the same money” as well as “others get more bang for their crystals.
So it all ties in together. Your failure of perception, again, doesn’t deter from the main point we agree on that CG dropped the ball and gave an unfair advantage to people comparative to its overall player base. So if you want to keep making a mountain out of a mole hill, then by all means continue