Is SWGOH a turn-based tactical or Rogue-lite RNG Fest?

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Replies

  • ZAP
    2627 posts Member
    Gifafi wrote: »
    KirKanos82 wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    have you tried gitting gud?

    that pretty much sums up the entire thread doesn't it? getting good doesn't help, because at the current gear levels, you still have a high chance of failure with maxed mods and gear, and perfect strategy

    it's probably your mods, strat and/or team comp.

    Ur fase needs mods and strat

    LSTB is this way because:

    A. They were tired of people beating their content so quickly
    B. They knew they wouldn’t be delivering content for a year, so they tuned this one up to a ridiculous level

  • MaruMaru
    456 posts Member
    Swgoh is a gacha game and follows suite with all the gacha frustration spending mechanics.
  • It's the most f2p game I've found
  • Kyno
    23504 posts Moderator
    ZAP wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    KirKanos82 wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    have you tried gitting gud?

    that pretty much sums up the entire thread doesn't it? getting good doesn't help, because at the current gear levels, you still have a high chance of failure with maxed mods and gear, and perfect strategy

    it's probably your mods, strat and/or team comp.

    Ur fase needs mods and strat

    LSTB is this way because:

    A. They were tired of people beating their content so quickly
    B. They knew they wouldn’t be delivering content for a year, so they tuned this one up to a ridiculous level

    c. they have plans to release relic abilities and didn't' want the last new content to become trivial once those are released.
  • Disagree 100% that this is a "gotcha game"
    If it was, I'd have quit a long time ago
  • ZAP
    2627 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    ZAP wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    KirKanos82 wrote: »
    Gifafi wrote: »
    have you tried gitting gud?

    that pretty much sums up the entire thread doesn't it? getting good doesn't help, because at the current gear levels, you still have a high chance of failure with maxed mods and gear, and perfect strategy

    it's probably your mods, strat and/or team comp.

    Ur fase needs mods and strat

    LSTB is this way because:

    A. They were tired of people beating their content so quickly
    B. They knew they wouldn’t be delivering content for a year, so they tuned this one up to a ridiculous level

    c. they have plans to release relic abilities and didn't' want the last new content to become trivial once those are released.

    Oh yeah I forgot C, which is the first thing I thought about when playing it, so yeah def C as well.
  • MaruMaru
    456 posts Member
    Disagree 100% that this is a "gotcha game"
    If it was, I'd have quit a long time ago

    In what way it's not a gacha game? All the mechanics are pure gacha. Gacha doesn't mean p2w or f2p unfriendly. It's a game mechanics and monetization template.
  • ZAP
    2627 posts Member
    It's the most f2p game I've found


    Completely agree, it’s always been super FTP friendly.

  • TVF
    22441 posts Member
    Disagree 100% that this is a "gotcha game"
    If it was, I'd have quit a long time ago

    @chpMINIsolo_77 not "Gotcha" but "Gacha."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gacha_game
    TVF's guild is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Disagree 100% that this is a "gotcha game"
    If it was, I'd have quit a long time ago

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gacha_game
  • TVF wrote: »
    Disagree 100% that this is a "gotcha game"
    If it was, I'd have quit a long time ago

    @chpMINIsolo_77 not "Gotcha" but "Gacha."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gacha_game
    Disagree 100% that this is a "gotcha game"
    If it was, I'd have quit a long time ago

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gacha_game

    Oops
  • Now I'm thinking of playing Rogue again. It's been decades since last time. :P
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    Disagree 100% that this is a "gotcha game"
    If it was, I'd have quit a long time ago

    In what way it's not a gacha game? All the mechanics are pure gacha. Gacha doesn't mean p2w or f2p unfriendly. It's a game mechanics and monetization template.

    My apologies, I was not aware of what a "gacha" game was, I thought it was a misspelling
  • After reading the definition, it still doesn't change my mind that this is the most f2p game I've been involved with
  • MaruMaru
    456 posts Member
    After reading the definition, it still doesn't change my mind that this is the most f2p game I've been involved with

    And that has nothing to do with it not being a gacha game. I'm f2p as well.
  • MaruMaru wrote: »
    After reading the definition, it still doesn't change my mind that this is the most f2p game I've been involved with

    And that has nothing to do with it not being a gacha game. I'm f2p as well.

    "monetization" sounded like it involved spending, my mistake. Thanks for clearing that up
  • littleMAC77
    2121 posts Member
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    After reading the definition, it still doesn't change my mind that this is the most f2p game I've been involved with

    And that has nothing to do with it not being a gacha game. I'm f2p as well.

    Maybe i am not being nuanced enough about what a "gacha" game is, but it reads like the definition is a game where you acquire characters for your collection through random packs (awarding random number of shards from random characters), meaning you have no true control over what you get.

    If that means a game like this, where the core farming method is using energy to target a specific character, then that is fine, but it seems like a very distinctive difference in terms of control the player has over their roster (plus a reduction in predatory nature).

    Either way, I agree with the sentiment that this game is very F2P friendly.
    Looking for a new guild? Come check out the Underworld Alliance on Discord:https://discord.gg/wvrYb4Q
  • AntiHeld
    219 posts Member

    KirKanos82 wrote: »
    JacenRoe wrote: »

    He probably meant Rogue-like.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roguelike

    Ironic he accused you of not understanding English. However, I understand and agree with the point that the degree to which RNG determines outcomes as opposed to tactics with end game content (like the KAM mission) is not fun.

    If you must know, rogue-lite is a subset of roguelike, a less brutal version, hence the use of "lite". Your link actually does explain it if you care to read it.

    Still both versions have nothing to do with this game or your argumentation!? Just the usage of rng in the game mechanics has always been there. Permadeath and random level generation are the descriptors of those game modes. And the Levels here are not randomly constucted. Just some set variations🤷‍♂️
  • KirKanos82 wrote: »
    Good example of great content would be the Assault battle challenge tiers. Practically impossible to complete with G12, but G13 and the right strategy makes it possible, while full R7 tends to make it a cake walk. People grumble about how tough the challenge tiers are, but it doesn't illicit as much frustration because we know that higher gear levels will solve the issue

    Yeah, usually takes 3 tries for my R7 CLS team to clear tier 2 of Military Might.
    I only did 2 LSTB I think and it ****. .y CLS arena team got 2 encounters I think. I imagine my Padme team would do better. iDK
  • gufu21
    310 posts Member
    edited May 22
    Piddling contests aside, genre is tricky to define. I don't think I'd actually call this a "turn-based tactical" per se because though the combat is turn based, it's missing so many other elements that I associate with the tactics genre, such as movement, LoS, elevation, cover, etc. I honestly think we're looking a relatively new genre of hero collector:
    • Progression definitely has gacha elements. (Every kind of progression in the game is basically a lever pull with a randomized output, and this was especially true back when chromium cards were pretty the only way to get premium content.)
    • Combat is turn-based with tactical elements.
    • There are a lot of light RPG elements throughout: character attributes, leveling, active and passive abilities, variable damage, critical hits, resist checks, turn initiative, "gearing" (though this is deceptive), party formation, etc.
    • There are also some CCG-esque aspects, such as the collection (which in CCGs often happened via randomized packs), meta shifts, and ever-present power creep (that has to be kept in check for the health of the game).

    It's the RPG elements that really bring so much of the RNG into the game, since, after all, RPGs used dice rolls to determine hits, damage, effects, etc.

    But on a basic level, I do agree with the OP that the impact of RNG in this game feels out of balance, in my opinion. Like, even in traditional RPGs/CRPGs, I don't think I often felt like whole battles were won and lost on a dice roll or two. In KOTOR, for example, I never had the feeling that I lost a big fight because of RNG. In SWGOH, that happens frequently, especially in fleet battles. There's just something about the game design here in which one bad dice roll often leads to a cascade of irrecoverable consequences, such that the entire outcome of the battle can hinge on luck.

    And I really agree with what the OP said about Rogue-lite feel, especially of PvE content. Rogue-lite is actually a great way to describe the Assault Battle challenge tiers, which I find so frustrating and unsatisfying. It smacks of kind of lazy game design that to ramp up the "difficulty," all CG did was introduce something in a particular phase that would instantly fail your run based largely on RNG.

    You can pick the perfect comp, gear them fine (relics and all), and never strictly misplay, and the whole run comes down to "Oh, so you didn't happen guess correctly which tiny blue bar would fill first so you could have X character at full to start the next phase? You lose." Then you have to start the entire run over from the beginning, slog through 30 minutes (not kidding) of unsatisfying, mind-numbing gameplay only to see if you pass the RNG instakill check this time. You didn't? Start the run over.

    That can feel a lot like a rogue-lite. Yes, there are ways to try to minimize its impact and increase your odds of getting through. But there are also times when made all the right moves and you still can't get the right character to get the first turn before your run is failed. And that's not fun because it feels unfair. Of course RNG will always play a role in an RPG, but it should never feel to the player like it was the sole deciding factor. And I think good game design should avoid that as much as possible rather than use it as a go-to for everything.
  • MaruMaru
    456 posts Member
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    After reading the definition, it still doesn't change my mind that this is the most f2p game I've been involved with

    And that has nothing to do with it not being a gacha game. I'm f2p as well.

    Maybe i am not being nuanced enough about what a "gacha" game is, but it reads like the definition is a game where you acquire characters for your collection through random packs (awarding random number of shards from random characters), meaning you have no true control over what you get.

    If that means a game like this, where the core farming method is using energy to target a specific character, then that is fine, but it seems like a very distinctive difference in terms of control the player has over their roster (plus a reduction in predatory nature).

    Either way, I agree with the sentiment that this game is very F2P friendly.

    That was how gacha games came into being originally. CGs previous game exactly worked like that. In time the gacha mechanics drew huge amount of backlash and gachas started to bury/distribute those elements and the manner this is done got defined as sub genres. Also law enforcement of money pack probabilities are coming around slowly. Gacha doesn't necessarily define the gameplay genre, just the monetization model.

    A game being heavily monetised doesn't mean it can't be played and enjoyed without spending. The entire micro transaction market works like this to much greater profits then if they were to be played with fixed rates for all players.
  • Nihion
    2648 posts Member
    MaruMaru wrote: »
    Nihion wrote: »
    Ah. Another day in the life of a toxic community member.

    On topic response:
    Um, yes?

    ?

    Exactly.
  • MaruMaru
    456 posts Member
    edited May 23
    *
    Post edited by MaruMaru on
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