What we mean by new content

Prev1
Rckclimber
3 posts Member
edited August 2020
I, like many of the long term players on here, have grown restless with the current state of affairs of the game. I have been eager for new content and have been among those that have been disappointed by the apparent disconnect between what we want and what is being delivered.

I was struck by something recently when someone commented that this is essentially a toon collecting game and thus the introduction of new characters is by definition new content. I agree with that intuitively but my dissatisfaction still remains.

The new galactic challenges are new as well. They meet the need for a new use of our toons yet obviously needs work. But the most common complaint is currently the rewards offered. Particularly the absence of stun guns. Which made me ponder what is it that we are actually asking for when we ask for new content. Is it really just stun guns?

Yes and no. The need for stun guns is absurd in the game. It has always been the biggest grind of the game and continues to grow in demand as more toons become necessary for better and better toons.(Anyone (not a whale/kracken) really investing 100 stun guns into rose tico if GL Rey wasn’t a thing?). The issue is that no matter what content is introduced we are still trying to farm stun guns.

So no matter what content is released it always feels like everything is the same... because it is... we are still farming stun guns.

Now I get that the game creators need to make it difficult to power up characters. But imagine what would happen if newer characters relied less on stun guns and more on a different hard to acquire gear like Kyros. Then CG could actually provide stun guns consistently as a reward. This helps new players get up to speed faster and helps older players finish up some characters that are still lingering in their rosters essentially ungeared.

I’m not saying to eliminate a gear choke point entirely but make it a different one as new toons are released. I’m tired of farming stun guns for generally useless toons.

TLDR version: we actually want stun guns. So make new toons rely on something other than stun guns Then gradually introduce something that actually provides stun guns consistently like galactic challenges. So that newer players can power up some of the older toons faster (and loyal F2P players). CG keeps their gear choke point (read money-making device) in place.
Post edited by Kyno on

Replies

  • This is not a toon collecting game. That is just 1 cog in its mechanics. Your assessment of what we mean by content is accurate
  • Larx
    336 posts Member
    This is not a toon collecting game. That is just 1 cog in its mechanics. Your assessment of what we mean by content is accurate

    not true. it is a toon collecting game.
  • Jkane wrote: »
    This seems like a valid approach. Nor would the implied increase in stun guns magically make the stun gun crunch disappear: it would simply alleviate it to some extent, so CG would likely still make money from stun guns, and perhaps more than they currently do from carbantis.

    Regarding this being a "toon collection" game, that is certainly true to a large extent. However, many of us would like something to actually DO with our collections. Something engaging and not just another version of something that already exists, but with cosmetic changes. Especially when those changes are side by side with gear requirements that tend to intensify the gear crunch. Hopefully the GC's turn into that. We will see.

    Great point about actually USING our collection of toons. GA lets' us use a good portion of our roster, but other than that, rarely do we use more than a 5-10 toons/daily unless an event calls for it, which is certainly not daily. We auto-sim Galactic War, LS/DS & Mod Battles, use pretty much the same 5 toons in 5 SA battles, same 5 ships in Fleet Arena.

    When I activated Darth Revan, I had no clue how to use him: sure I could watch some vids on this, but there is nothing like using a toon to really figure out synergies, mods, etc. And CG has given us ZERO ways to work on things like the above.

    We keep playing, spending our money, getting ZERO input/feedback from CG. Diff day, same thing.
  • Your point about gear crunch is valid for PvE. I do believe however that a large amount of players (including F2P) are looking for a diverse way to use the roster regardless of rewards:

    > Live PvP for instance is an interesting game mode where the rewards comes from the live interaction with another player. It has to be diverse enough so that it's not just a live squad arena, but if they got it right, it could be a valid game mode that keeps players engaged even if there were little to no rewards.

    > Galactic Challenge were presented as a new way to use a diverse roster. If they became a real puzzle-type of game with random modifiers, varied opponent squads and game modes (eg. 1v1, 3v3, get a win using at least 2 droids,...), those could get players engaged and help swallow the small rewards. A lot of our furstration seems to be focused around the fact that, despite this being advertised as a way to use a diverse portfolio, it was the same battle with increasing difficulty and there was only faction favoured. It was very close to the Assault Battle mechanics.

    We are also a very diverse player base where some players like very different types of game modes (eg. 5v5 or 3v3 GAC, some players love TB while others love TW,...).

    There are more game modes that could be raised and give players that little boost of engagement. I agree that the gear crunch is sometimes crazy, and also understand why CG does it. I just also believe that there is a lack of fun and genuinely engaging game modes to use the collection on a regular basis and who will engage enough of the player base.
  • TVF
    31111 posts Member
    Larx wrote: »
    This is not a toon collecting game. That is just 1 cog in its mechanics. Your assessment of what we mean by content is accurate

    not true. it is a toon collecting game.

    I agree with Mephisto. That is just one component of the game.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • TVF wrote: »
    Larx wrote: »
    This is not a toon collecting game. That is just 1 cog in its mechanics. Your assessment of what we mean by content is accurate

    not true. it is a toon collecting game.

    I agree with Mephisto. That is just one component of the game.

    Considering collect is the first word in the about this game in the Play Store, calling it a character collection game is objectively true. Obviously there are other aspects to the game and it has morphed over time into more and more of a resource management game..

    As a long time player I'm tired of investing in stun guns and feeling the depth of my roster is a detriment. I'm really hoping the gc when complete will reduce the time it takes to get characters from gear 7 to 12 and give me reason to utilize more characters I've already invested in.

  • TVF
    31111 posts Member
    Vi1teran_ wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Larx wrote: »
    This is not a toon collecting game. That is just 1 cog in its mechanics. Your assessment of what we mean by content is accurate

    not true. it is a toon collecting game.

    I agree with Mephisto. That is just one component of the game.

    Considering collect is the first word in the about this game in the Play Store, calling it a character collection game is objectively true. Obviously there are other aspects to the game and it has morphed over time into more and more of a resource management game..

    Ok.

    Context matters.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • My point isn’t that this is a toon collecting game. It is both a toon collecting game and a game that should require uses for our toons. My point is that no matter what content is released we won’t be satisfied until stun guns are easier to acquire. Case in point Biggest complaint of galactic challenges is the rewards which suck. The event itself will use a very broad range of toons as it continues.
  • Stun guns, and lack of meaningful rewards in general, is the least of my worries when it comes to galactic challenges. The whole game mode is dull, top to bottom. Gear can be increased easily; making the gameplay closer to what was advertised is a lot more difficult.
  • So ... sounds like maybe you want a new Mark 8 Kyrotech to join the grind! lol do not tempt them.
  • So ... sounds like maybe you want a new Mark 8 Kyrotech to join the grind! lol do not tempt them.

    Made up of mk9 kyro and mk5 stun guns, needed on all new toons starting at gear level 5.
  • BeralCator
    731 posts Member
    edited August 2020
    Kyno wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Larx wrote: »
    This is not a toon collecting game. That is just 1 cog in its mechanics. Your assessment of what we mean by content is accurate

    not true. it is a toon collecting game.

    I agree with Mephisto. That is just one component of the game.

    Agree. Yes this is a toon collection game. And this post also touches on the other parts of the game as well, which is bringing toons you want to a useable place to use them.

    Stun guns appear to be the one piece that is just not paced correctly, its not unmanageable to an extent, but there should not be "one lynch pin" to progression that doesnt have a good source of income. That is what stun guns feel like.

    If they made a public announcement that there will be no more characters placed in the GET1 store, it would go a long way to alleviating the stun gun crunch. If they don't want to overpromise, they could say something like "for the remainder of 2020" or "for the next 12 months".

    Stun guns are available and reasonably priced there, but after GAS I think most players are trigger shy to use this currency.

    Considering even endgame players like myself (6M+ GP) need about 200 of them between Mk 5, Mk 6, Mk 12 and a few other combo pieces, allowing us to use GET1 would ease the crunch. It would still take years to clear the backlog.
  • Monomer wrote: »
    Stun guns, and lack of meaningful rewards in general, is the least of my worries when it comes to galactic challenges. The whole game mode is dull, top to bottom. Gear can be increased easily; making the gameplay closer to what was advertised is a lot more difficult.

    Completely agree here. This seems to be getting lost in the discussions about rewards for GC, but I don’t see an easy way for them to change its current state into something that’s more fun.
  • I agree it is mostly a collection game. New characters qualify as content because you must use them according to their kit, which brings a new experience to the game. That is content.

    At it's core, there are only so many ways to re-skin this cat. For combat you mostly get to use 5 characters to attack the enemy. The innovation to these encounters comes in the thematic elements. WHY am I attacking the opposition? WHAT did my team gain by winning the encounter (the answer should be more than just game loot)?

    PVP: Arena-style combat has an obvious theme: battle other players and guilds, gladiator-style. Strongest squad wins. New heroes change this experience to some extent, which does equate to new content. The only compelling element here is to beat the other guy.

    PVE TLDR: I want a story.
    I think PVE is where we are looking for something more interesting. Something engaging.
    • Most of the events in the Journey Guide did a good job capturing a thematic element; some did a great job. All of them pose a challenge. My favorite part, really.
    • The TB territories are arranged to tell a small story, but none of that really comes across in the game play. It's just waves of randomly-generated enemies. I am leading an Imperial invasion of Hoth to destroy the planetary shield generator ... I don't even get to give the MAXIMUM FIREPOWER command to take it down? Where are my AT-ATs at? Lame. Platoon missions are ultra lame. Still there is an engaging puzzle element to the missions in determining attack order and how to proceed in each wave that gives the mode replay value.
    • Most of the assault battles have no thematic elements at all ... WHY are there 8 waves? There does not seem to be any point at all to progressing through the waves other than beat this wave, move on to the next ... yawn. Some are not too bad though, I rather like the Nightsisters progression and beating up the sacred altar at the end is an interesting twist. Using Bounty Hunters to rack up Termination totals is also a fun goal ... but WHY are the Bounty Hunters invading the Rebels? That's not really what BH do.
    • Marquee events attempt to showcase the new character's ability and they do that to some degree. No thematic elements at all though, not really engaging.
    • I find raids to be incredibly dull, punching-bag events. See how much damage you can do ... Look, it's Darth Nihilus with 10 jillion hit points, it will take your whole guild to beat him! Ridiculous.
    • NEW Galactic Challenges ... only one so far, but no coherent theme. WHY are the Sith battling the Separatists in a sandstorm on Tattoine? Love the idea of environmental effects and special event abilities, but why are we here ...

    Anyway that's what I would like: a story, any story.

    Collecting only goes so far when the story goes stale. I used to collect die cast race cars until the actual racing turned into a snore-fest, I do not do collect them anymore either.
    How about bring reinforcements into new games modes? Maybe limit available reinforcements to characters queued up in the squad selection screen (like Fleet Arena), or a specific faction, or several factions, or prerequisite groups, whatever. Reinforcements might have to wait for your turn, or maybe they auto-generate when an ally is defeated. Let your imagination run.
  • BeralCator wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    Larx wrote: »
    This is not a toon collecting game. That is just 1 cog in its mechanics. Your assessment of what we mean by content is accurate

    not true. it is a toon collecting game.

    I agree with Mephisto. That is just one component of the game.

    Agree. Yes this is a toon collection game. And this post also touches on the other parts of the game as well, which is bringing toons you want to a useable place to use them.

    Stun guns appear to be the one piece that is just not paced correctly, its not unmanageable to an extent, but there should not be "one lynch pin" to progression that doesnt have a good source of income. That is what stun guns feel like.

    If they made a public announcement that there will be no more characters placed in the GET1 store, it would go a long way to alleviating the stun gun crunch. If they don't want to overpromise, they could say something like "for the remainder of 2020" or "for the next 12 months".

    Stun guns are available and reasonably priced there, but after GAS I think most players are trigger shy to use this currency.

    Considering even endgame players like myself (6M+ GP) need about 200 of them between Mk 5, Mk 6, Mk 12 and a few other combo pieces, allowing us to use GET1 would ease the crunch. It would still take years to clear the backlog.


    I desperately want to spend my get (both I and II), but I’m too scared to. I do however spend all my gac currency on kyro as soon as I get it, so I’m sure that will come back to haunt me
  • I said it before and I'll say it again they could double the amount of Stun Guns given out and there would still be a crunch. I've spent the last 5 or 6 days to go from 95 to 100 stun guns. And I've been stuck at 99 since yesterday. Mods should ultimately be the real crunch since that is really what makes or breaks your character.
  • Lio
    1003 posts Member
    twstdbydsn wrote: »
    I said it before and I'll say it again they could double the amount of Stun Guns given out and there would still be a crunch. I've spent the last 5 or 6 days to go from 95 to 100 stun guns. And I've been stuck at 99 since yesterday. Mods should ultimately be the real crunch since that is really what makes or breaks your character.

    You got 5 stun guns in about a week? We're you actively farming them or just passively waiting for them to come to you?
  • Lio wrote: »
    twstdbydsn wrote: »
    I said it before and I'll say it again they could double the amount of Stun Guns given out and there would still be a crunch. I've spent the last 5 or 6 days to go from 95 to 100 stun guns. And I've been stuck at 99 since yesterday. Mods should ultimately be the real crunch since that is really what makes or breaks your character.

    You got 5 stun guns in about a week? We're you actively farming them or just passively waiting for them to come to you?

    It's impossible to get 5 complete stun guns passively in a week.
  • TVF
    31111 posts Member
    Lio wrote: »
    twstdbydsn wrote: »
    I said it before and I'll say it again they could double the amount of Stun Guns given out and there would still be a crunch. I've spent the last 5 or 6 days to go from 95 to 100 stun guns. And I've been stuck at 99 since yesterday. Mods should ultimately be the real crunch since that is really what makes or breaks your character.

    You got 5 stun guns in about a week? We're you actively farming them or just passively waiting for them to come to you?

    It's impossible to get 5 complete stun guns passively in a week.

    No one said 5 complete.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • How did (again) a post that started asking for content end up only discussed how we need stun guns? There are plenty ways getting gear.

    This is a toon collecting game yes, but as it’s a game we need good play elements to use those characters. It shocks me how this GC game mode was announced a year ago and basicly is only one battle with 3 feats that you have to repeat 7 times. I don’t why a new raid was cancelled for this plain event that you have to do repeat minimum 14 times to complete all feats. Who can actually enjoy this?

    Only way i can imagine a fun GC event if it was more like a GW 2.0 where battles are based on your roster, you can choose different paths, have to use different teams, get different bonusses/penalties. Something challenging where you have to earn your rewards. Not that one battle where you get rewards just because you have a full team of relic 5 toons, dont call it galactice challenge, this is no challenge.
  • Starslayer
    1346 posts Member
    edited August 2020
    I agree it is mostly a collection game. New characters qualify as content because you must use them according to their kit, which brings a new experience to the game. That is content.

    At it's core, there are only so many ways to re-skin this cat. For combat you mostly get to use 5 characters to attack the enemy. The innovation to these encounters comes in the thematic elements. WHY am I attacking the opposition? WHAT did my team gain by winning the encounter (the answer should be more than just game loot)?

    PVP: Arena-style combat has an obvious theme: battle other players and guilds, gladiator-style. Strongest squad wins. New heroes change this experience to some extent, which does equate to new content. The only compelling element here is to beat the other guy.

    PVE TLDR: I want a story.
    I think PVE is where we are looking for something more interesting. Something engaging.
    • Most of the events in the Journey Guide did a good job capturing a thematic element; some did a great job. All of them pose a challenge. My favorite part, really.
    • The TB territories are arranged to tell a small story, but none of that really comes across in the game play. It's just waves of randomly-generated enemies. I am leading an Imperial invasion of Hoth to destroy the planetary shield generator ... I don't even get to give the MAXIMUM FIREPOWER command to take it down? Where are my AT-ATs at? Lame. Platoon missions are ultra lame. Still there is an engaging puzzle element to the missions in determining attack order and how to proceed in each wave that gives the mode replay value.
    • Most of the assault battles have no thematic elements at all ... WHY are there 8 waves? There does not seem to be any point at all to progressing through the waves other than beat this wave, move on to the next ... yawn. Some are not too bad though, I rather like the Nightsisters progression and beating up the sacred altar at the end is an interesting twist. Using Bounty Hunters to rack up Termination totals is also a fun goal ... but WHY are the Bounty Hunters invading the Rebels? That's not really what BH do.
    • Marquee events attempt to showcase the new character's ability and they do that to some degree. No thematic elements at all though, not really engaging.
    • I find raids to be incredibly dull, punching-bag events. See how much damage you can do ... Look, it's Darth Nihilus with 10 jillion hit points, it will take your whole guild to beat him! Ridiculous.
    • NEW Galactic Challenges ... only one so far, but no coherent theme. WHY are the Sith battling the Separatists in a sandstorm on Tattoine? Love the idea of environmental effects and special event abilities, but why are we here ...

    Anyway that's what I would like: a story, any story.

    Collecting only goes so far when the story goes stale. I used to collect die cast race cars until the actual racing turned into a snore-fest, I do not do collect them anymore either.
    How about bring reinforcements into new games modes? Maybe limit available reinforcements to characters queued up in the squad selection screen (like Fleet Arena), or a specific faction, or several factions, or prerequisite groups, whatever. Reinforcements might have to wait for your turn, or maybe they auto-generate when an ally is defeated. Let your imagination run.

    I completely agree with the importance of story.
    For instance, tanks as Platoon bonus are a nice touch. A animation where we see the tank firing (like it was implemented with ultimate abilities), as a summon in a final fantasy game, could be a lot of fun imo.
    At the end of the last wave of a combat/special mission, a small animation showing what we achieve in this mission (destroy a building, capture a prisoner..), as we see at the end of a raid phase, could be nice too.
    Same for GC: it could be fun to actually see the global effect in a way or another.
    Maybe it's too much work for some details, i don't know. But maybe details matter.
  • I'm losing interest in the glacial rate of progression. ...

    TL;DR: This kind of game has to balance scarcity, which keeps the lights on at CG, with frequent enough progression to keep a player's interest. And right now I'm bored with feeling stagnant because I hardly ever get stun guns.

    Completely agree with the first statement. 33 new r3 plus toons required for end game content since late winter/early spring - just 6 months or so. What's the increase in availability of g12 gear in that time? Assault battles adds a little bit of availability but because they're faction specific it's only for people who already have that faction built up. If you gear even one toon to r5 to complete the team you need for those challenge tiers, the amount of time it takes you to get a return on that investment, given that particular assault battle will recur only 1/month could easily be a year. You're better off putting your scarce gear on your actual priorities rather than investing in something that might get you a net positive in gear 13 months from now.

    And... almost completely agree with the next paragraph. If it was easier to complete g12, I wouldn't mind the stun gun crunch so much because once you get through it, you can breeze through everything else. But if it stays hard to complete g12, then yeah, the stun gun crunch has to go away.

    When we talked about how long it takes to gear up toons to the requirements for today's endgame content and how there's no point for new players to start the game anymore unless they intend on being krakens, they gave us ... the hyperdrive bundle.

    but that doesn't cut it. It jumps you ahead several months in leveling your account, but from the perspective of someone who was an old hand at this game before it was released, it honestly doesn't seem like it boosts progress on other priorities by more than a few weeks, 2 months at most.

    Without a significant reduction in the amount of time it takes to gear a single toon from g1 to r7, the game is still a bad deal for new players.

    • About story:


    I completely agree that even if NOTHING else changed about the game, the farms weren't any quicker, no new sources of stun guns, NOTHING changed, if there were more of a story, I'd be having more fun and be more invested in the game.

    Imagine intros to assault battles encounters that said, "Episode 1," "Episode 2," etc. Cut scenes would help, as well. Actually blowing up the shield generator and showing the AT-AT scene from Empire when it happens (either as a movie or recreated as an animation) would definitely add something.

    But what I'd really like to see is what we accomplish combined with what we need to accomplish.

    We're supposed to be gamers in a holotable gambling joint, right?

    Well, rope that into the story. You can even make in-jokes about it. Create a new currency that doesn't buy anything, but is supposed to be currency outside the holotable game that we're donating to a new rebellion. As you donate more and more, you get new cutscenes where you learn more about how people are using the credits you've donated to accomplish cool things in striking a blow against actual tyranny, not holotable characters. And, yes, obviously it's still a game, but you've created that distinction between "player" and characters where the "player" still is character in the cantina. Why not use it?

    When people win a bunch of GAC or Arena matches in a row, there can be a short scene, almost easter egg-like although not quite that obscure, where someone comes up to you in Cantina view and says that you remind them of Han Solo (or Lando, I suppose).

    When you reach a new personal best ever rank in Arena or Fleet Arena or one of the TBs, one of the drink servers in Cantina view can congratulate you. If you actually take 1st in one of the arenas or get max stars in one of the TBs, there can be a more specific cut scene where they make a bigger deal out of it.

    There are so many ways to add story elements. Honestly when I first picked up the game I thought there was going to be some level of story because it was described as a "Collectible RPG". But there's no role-playing at all, and no story to role play within.

    As free mobile games go, it's a "good enough" game, but it could be so much better, and as much as I don't really want to ditch my time investment in this to seek out something new, it really has lost its ability to hold me.

    Add a story line for the Cantina character and you'll hold interest a lot better than you will with GalChallenges.


  • Some are not too bad though, I rather like the Nightsisters progression and beating up the sacred altar at the end is an interesting twist. Using Bounty Hunters to rack up Termination totals is also a fun goal ... but WHY are the Bounty Hunters invading the Rebels? That's not really what BH do.

    Separately, I just thought I'd add this: imagine a scene at the beginning with Darth Vader commissioning your BHs to go capture a Bothan spy that was wanted by the empire. You fight through all the rebels you do now, but at the end there's another cut scene of capturing the Bothan, telling it that you'll be delivering it to Lord Vader, and then the Bothan quivers and there's an ominous swallowing of the scene in darkness.

    See, that's the thing that takes these from something to do to something cool

    Also, set up the programming so that the cut scene plays when ever you beat a tier you've never beaten before (you had 0 stars on it) OR whenever you beat the hardest tier that exists, even if you've done it before.

    Now you don't have it playing so often that watching becomes a chore and happens when you don't feel you've accomplished anything. (Imagine it playing after you've auto'd t1 with your r5+ BHs; it would be ridiculous and tedious both.)

    I've criticized the cut scene at the beginning of the Chewbacca event b/c it was heavily RNG dependent and required restarting over and over. In that context, a cut scene becomes repetitive, boring and bad.

    But it's not that hard to use them well and to give the game more story.
  • I am really diggin' what @Starslayer and @MasterSeedy were saying with the details.

    When I first started this game, I had a rivalry with the Hutt dude that is the top player in the cantina. The owner of the cantina used to tell me I was getting better and how that used to make the Hutt dude jealous. Those were neat little details. I haven't seen anything like that in months now. I guess Hutt dude got tired of my progress.

    I realize something like that should go away after a bit.... Like MasterSeedy said, some of those cut scenes can get real tedious after some time.

    I certainly agree CG could do a little more with the details that would make it more fun to login several times a day and less like work. Although, I would like to see some of those QoL updates first! Fleet squads and mod management, just off the top of my head.

    My two pennies...details matter.

    Have a great day y'all!
Sign In or Register to comment.