I think there may be an actual solution to this that doesn't break matchmaking. And since the op doesn't seem to understand how the system works let alone how to make it better, I'll throw out the possible solution for Discussion.
Basically we just need to redo the division placement to also be based on effective go with matchmaking rather than total gp. This would likely result in people who have vastly different rosters at the top being in different divisions.
It's a bit more complicated unfortunately since what determines effective gp varies based on your division. But it is something to consider since there are calls to rework the divisions anyway due to division 1 filling up.
That sounds like it would be more fair than it is now. Being that the only thing currently dividing the teams by division is GP, I think that is all that should really determine matchmaking - GP. Everyone at the same GP has had the same opportunity to develop their roster in whatever way they want - basically GP says that you have applied. If a player hasn't done that in a way that is effective for GAC, then so be it. Keep in mind that the players developing only very few characters at a very high level could also find themselves in a bad position when they need more defensive slots in higher divisions, so then that is something they should have to deal with.
Maybe a good solution would be to have a "B" league within at least the lower divisions for players without well developed characters. They could have easier competition, but would have a smaller prize pool as well. And if they wanted to, then they could opt into the "A" league, but then they would get randomized into the competition
Like someone pointed out early in this thread, if you are just matched up against teams that they feel are of equal competition, then what is the point of having a division at all? It really doesn't make sense.
The Division one problem seems like a really easy solution - add another division tier at the top. I'm to far away to even care what it is, but if it is "over 3M GP", then I'm sure that was fine when they made it and the top players had maybe 4 or 5M. But as the top players get more powerful, then there is more separation of GP.
I agree with you that matchmaking on total gp is fine. And it may solve the issue you have (at least in some cases those at the low end of a division would still face those at the low end).
But they actually started gac that way when it first launched and they changed it because of complaining of unfair matchmaking. So it is really unlikely they will change it back.
They actually started GA that way, before it evolved into GAC.
The problem with matching on total GP is that it encourages complete suppression of unnecessary roster development, far more so than anything we are seeing today, and it punishes those who star, level and gear the low end of their roster even though those toons are of absolutely no use in GA.
The general consensus on the forums after the shift to top {x} GP was that match quality improved.
I think there may be an actual solution to this that doesn't break matchmaking. And since the op doesn't seem to understand how the system works let alone how to make it better, I'll throw out the possible solution for Discussion.
Basically we just need to redo the division placement to also be based on effective go with matchmaking rather than total gp. This would likely result in people who have vastly different rosters at the top being in different divisions.
It's a bit more complicated unfortunately since what determines effective gp varies based on your division. But it is something to consider since there are calls to rework the divisions anyway due to division 1 filling up.
That sounds like it would be more fair than it is now. Being that the only thing currently dividing the teams by division is GP, I think that is all that should really determine matchmaking - GP. Everyone at the same GP has had the same opportunity to develop their roster in whatever way they want - basically GP says that you have applied. If a player hasn't done that in a way that is effective for GAC, then so be it. Keep in mind that the players developing only very few characters at a very high level could also find themselves in a bad position when they need more defensive slots in higher divisions, so then that is something they should have to deal with.
Maybe a good solution would be to have a "B" league within at least the lower divisions for players without well developed characters. They could have easier competition, but would have a smaller prize pool as well. And if they wanted to, then they could opt into the "A" league, but then they would get randomized into the competition
Like someone pointed out early in this thread, if you are just matched up against teams that they feel are of equal competition, then what is the point of having a division at all? It really doesn't make sense.
The Division one problem seems like a really easy solution - add another division tier at the top. I'm to far away to even care what it is, but if it is "over 3M GP", then I'm sure that was fine when they made it and the top players had maybe 4 or 5M. But as the top players get more powerful, then there is more separation of GP.
I agree with you that matchmaking on total gp is fine. And it may solve the issue you have (at least in some cases those at the low end of a division would still face those at the low end).
But they actually started gac that way when it first launched and they changed it because of complaining of unfair matchmaking. So it is really unlikely they will change it back.
So maybe that is where each division could have a "B league" with a smaller prize pool on a different leader board. And if a player didn't want to be in B league, then they could opt up to A, but then would have to face all competition.
I think that would be overly complicated and likely lead to complaining that they accidentally joined the wrong league and it's CGs fault.
I was ok with pure gp matchmaking since everyone had the opportunity to build good teams as someone with the same gp as them. But they decided to go with gp of top teams only.
At this point it is what it is. There are benefits to the new system and there are drawbacks. Your issue is simply one of the drawbacks. It isn't even a very large one really.
The real irony is that the change from gp to effective gp did very little to stop the complaining from those that build bad rosters. They still want it to account fo rgb someone else getting a GL when they didn't. I personally am of the mind of making matchmaking roughly equal as l (go or effective gp) and leaving the rest up to me.
I think there may be an actual solution to this that doesn't break matchmaking. And since the op doesn't seem to understand how the system works let alone how to make it better, I'll throw out the possible solution for Discussion.
Basically we just need to redo the division placement to also be based on effective go with matchmaking rather than total gp. This would likely result in people who have vastly different rosters at the top being in different divisions.
It's a bit more complicated unfortunately since what determines effective gp varies based on your division. But it is something to consider since there are calls to rework the divisions anyway due to division 1 filling up.
That sounds like it would be more fair than it is now. Being that the only thing currently dividing the teams by division is GP, I think that is all that should really determine matchmaking - GP. Everyone at the same GP has had the same opportunity to develop their roster in whatever way they want - basically GP says that you have applied. If a player hasn't done that in a way that is effective for GAC, then so be it. Keep in mind that the players developing only very few characters at a very high level could also find themselves in a bad position when they need more defensive slots in higher divisions, so then that is something they should have to deal with.
Maybe a good solution would be to have a "B" league within at least the lower divisions for players without well developed characters. They could have easier competition, but would have a smaller prize pool as well. And if they wanted to, then they could opt into the "A" league, but then they would get randomized into the competition
Like someone pointed out early in this thread, if you are just matched up against teams that they feel are of equal competition, then what is the point of having a division at all? It really doesn't make sense.
The Division one problem seems like a really easy solution - add another division tier at the top. I'm to far away to even care what it is, but if it is "over 3M GP", then I'm sure that was fine when they made it and the top players had maybe 4 or 5M. But as the top players get more powerful, then there is more separation of GP.
I agree with you that matchmaking on total gp is fine. And it may solve the issue you have (at least in some cases those at the low end of a division would still face those at the low end).
But they actually started gac that way when it first launched and they changed it because of complaining of unfair matchmaking. So it is really unlikely they will change it back.
They actually started GA that way, before it evolved into GAC.
The problem with matching on total GP is that it encourages complete suppression of unnecessary roster development, far more so than anything we are seeing today, and it punishes those who star, level and gear the low end of their roster even though those toons are of absolutely no use in GA.
The general consensus on the forums after the shift to top {x} GP was that match quality improved.
But shouldn't that be right? Using your limited resources on "toons with toons are of absolutely no use" seems like it should be good strategy. This is a strategy game. I'd like to have a good Jawa team just to deal with bugs, but at this point in my progress that just isn't a good use of my resources. Shouldn't good use of resources be rewarded? Why would anyone want to level and gear toons that are of no use in GA? If they are not of use in GA, then they are of no use in squad Arena or TW/TB, so it seems that you wouldn't be playing very well from a strategy standpoint.
Just look at the current matchmaking as a compromise between those like yourself that want it off of gp, and those that want it to hold their hand and correct all of their mistakes
It may not be what you think is ideal but it isn't that bad either.
And I highly doubt that the person with g11 has gone as broad as to gear up jawas. But you never know. It may just be that you have played longer and you only gear one team at a time and hoard gear instead of putting it on other characters.
There are also other reasons to gear toons other than gac. Events, tb, legendary requirements, ect...
If I favorite all of the characters that are required for just GLs, you get far more than are needed at div 9 and not that many great teams. But in the long run, you will need to gear them eventually. Some people just take a different path to do so.
new season, sos. Now I'm at the bottom of the division GP. 1-2 last round. Way over matched against one, way under matched against another and pretty close with the 3rd but just got out played. But the guy I had outmatched would crush anyone in the top 10.
This is the feedback section, so I'm just leaving feedback, not looking for answers. I am about to walk from the game - not because I'm losing to players better than me, but because I'm losing to players not as good as me that don't have to compete with me. I guess they are doing what they think makes the most people happy, but it sucks when you have tried to get better and finish behind those that don't try or are very bad at it.
new season, sos. Now I'm at the bottom of the division GP. 1-2 last round. Way over matched against one, way under matched against another and pretty close with the 3rd but just got out played. But the guy I had outmatched would crush anyone in the top 10.
This is the feedback section, so I'm just leaving feedback, not looking for answers. I am about to walk from the game - not because I'm losing to players better than me, but because I'm losing to players not as good as me that don't have to compete with me. I guess they are doing what they think makes the most people happy, but it sucks when you have tried to get better and finish behind those that don't try or are very bad at it.
If your opponents are not as good as you why do you lose, then? Apparently they played a better GA than you - either by developing a roster more suitable for GA than yours, by using better tactics than you or by executing their tactics better than you.
Regarding over/under matching:
It was still just the first GA of four. As you progress through the championship the effect of leagues will grow and matches will be more even in the final GA.
new season, sos. Now I'm at the bottom of the division GP. 1-2 last round. Way over matched against one, way under matched against another and pretty close with the 3rd but just got out played. But the guy I had outmatched would crush anyone in the top 10.
This is the feedback section, so I'm just leaving feedback, not looking for answers. I am about to walk from the game - not because I'm losing to players better than me, but because I'm losing to players not as good as me that don't have to compete with me. I guess they are doing what they think makes the most people happy, but it sucks when you have tried to get better and finish behind those that don't try or are very bad at it.
If your opponents are not as good as you why do you lose, then? Apparently they played a better GA than you - either by developing a roster more suitable for GA than yours, by using better tactics than you or by executing their tactics better than you.
Regarding over/under matching:
It was still just the first GA of four. As you progress through the championship the effect of leagues will grow and matches will be more even in the final GA.
I'm not talking about my opponents - that is exactly the point. You are exactly right about my opponents and I have no problem with that. It's the players at the top of the leader board that continue to reap the most rewards out of GAC while obviously being set up to Not play good teams.
new season, sos. Now I'm at the bottom of the division GP. 1-2 last round. Way over matched against one, way under matched against another and pretty close with the 3rd but just got out played. But the guy I had outmatched would crush anyone in the top 10.
This is the feedback section, so I'm just leaving feedback, not looking for answers. I am about to walk from the game - not because I'm losing to players better than me, but because I'm losing to players not as good as me that don't have to compete with me. I guess they are doing what they think makes the most people happy, but it sucks when you have tried to get better and finish behind those that don't try or are very bad at it.
If your opponents are not as good as you why do you lose, then? Apparently they played a better GA than you - either by developing a roster more suitable for GA than yours, by using better tactics than you or by executing their tactics better than you.
Regarding over/under matching:
It was still just the first GA of four. As you progress through the championship the effect of leagues will grow and matches will be more even in the final GA.
I'm not talking about my opponents - that is exactly the point. You are exactly right about my opponents and I have no problem with that. It's the players at the top of the leader board that continue to reap the most rewards out of GAC while obviously being set up to Not play good teams.
[...]
This is the feedback section, so I'm just leaving feedback, not looking for answers. I am about to walk from the game - not because I'm losing to players better than me, but because I'm losing to players not as good as me that don't have to compete with me. [...]
What he’s referring to is that he is further down the leaderboard than the “weak” rosters, not that they are actually defeating him in GAC (at least I think that’s what he means!)
I’m not sure why people care so much about this. It seems clear to me that GAC absolutely does not identify the very best PvP players, more the very best roster managers.
There is a rewards gap, of course, with those in the top ranks of Kyber earning a chunk more GAC currency than the scrubs like me who just qualify for Kyber, but even then I personally have long accepted that the sort of people I’m being matched with make it nigh on impossible for me to compete with the scores the roster managers can achieve against their opposition.
Me, and this guy, can’t control who other people are matched with and how many points they earn. I just try to win every match and qualify for Kyber. That’s all that I can influence so it’s all I choose to worry about.
What he’s referring to is that he is further down the leaderboard than the “weak” rosters, not that they are actually defeating him in GAC (at least I think that’s what he means!)
So, by "losing" he means "ranking lower on the leader boards"? Hrmm..... OK.
What he’s referring to is that he is further down the leaderboard than the “weak” rosters, not that they are actually defeating him in GAC (at least I think that’s what he means!)
So, by "losing" he means "ranking lower on the leader boards"? Hrmm..... OK.
I am pretty sure that's what he means.
I mean, if you look at the very top of Div1 right now, I'm sure you or I would salivate at the prospect of being matched against them https://swgoh.gg/p/764236429/ !
If we remove the ego and envy from his point, there is of course some validity to it. Any Championship structure that allows players as disparate as those two to be in positions 1 and 2 is clearly in need of a tune up. Those two rosters are by definition not in the same league!
I’m not sure why people care so much about this. It seems clear to me that GAC absolutely does not identify the very best PvP players, more the very best roster managers.
Roster management is certainly part of it but by no means all. Mod management, match strategy and battle tactics are also important.
I mean, if you look at the very top of Div1 right now, I'm sure you or I would salivate at the prospect of being matched against them https://swgoh.gg/p/764236429/ !
You cannot possibly tell me that roster is among the best managed!
Any Championship structure that allows players as disparate as those two to be in positions 1 and 2 is clearly in need of a tune up. Those two rosters are by definition not in the same league!
The GP spread in division 1 currently is ridiculous, yes: 4.5m GP to 9m+ GP is far too much.
But you cannot eliminate the fact that the top ranked players in a division cannot necessarily be matched against each other unless you remove GP from matchmaking and simply say that higher GP = better player and therefore deserves the top ranks, which is a steaming pile of Bantha pudu.
What he’s referring to is that he is further down the leaderboard than the “weak” rosters, not that they are actually defeating him in GAC (at least I think that’s what he means!)
So, by "losing" he means "ranking lower on the leader boards"? Hrmm..... OK.
What he’s referring to is that he is further down the leaderboard than the “weak” rosters, not that they are actually defeating him in GAC (at least I think that’s what he means!)
So, by "losing" he means "ranking lower on the leader boards"? Hrmm..... OK.
Yes. Losing the overall competition. That is why they keep the leader board, right? If you start at the beginning of the thread I think you can see that.
If we remove the ego and envy from his point, there is of course some validity to it. Any Championship structure that allows players as disparate as those two to be in positions 1 and 2 is clearly in need of a tune up. Those two rosters are by definition not in the same league!
Not sure why you see envy or ego here. I just think that if you look at the people ahead of you in the division, then you should, in general, be able to see how they are better than you or what you can do to improve. For example, I noticed early on that when someone had a good bugs team I had very little chance against them and that alone put me at a disadvantage. So I'll soon have that. A couple seasons ago I tried looking at the leader boards in order to see what those people were doing so I could try and get better and I saw that half the top ten I think I would have a pretty easy time against. So how do you improve at that point? That's my frustration here. And it isn't just GP. I think most of my opponents from last season in Div 9 were better than what I see on the leader board now in Div 8.
What he’s referring to is that he is further down the leaderboard than the “weak” rosters, not that they are actually defeating him in GAC (at least I think that’s what he means!)
So, by "losing" he means "ranking lower on the leader boards"? Hrmm..... OK.
Yes. Losing the overall competition. That is why they keep the leader board, right? If you start at the beginning of the thread I think you can see that.
If we remove the ego and envy from his point, there is of course some validity to it. Any Championship structure that allows players as disparate as those two to be in positions 1 and 2 is clearly in need of a tune up. Those two rosters are by definition not in the same league!
Not sure why you see envy or ego here. I just think that if you look at the people ahead of you in the division, then you should, in general, be able to see how they are better than you or what you can do to improve. For example, I noticed early on that when someone had a good bugs team I had very little chance against them and that alone put me at a disadvantage. So I'll soon have that. A couple seasons ago I tried looking at the leader boards in order to see what those people were doing so I could try and get better and I saw that half the top ten I think I would have a pretty easy time against. So how do you improve at that point? That's my frustration here. And it isn't just GP. I think most of my opponents from last season in Div 9 were better than what I see on the leader board now in Div 8.
Please correct your quotations. Those are not my words.
If we remove the ego and envy from his point, there is of course some validity to it. Any Championship structure that allows players as disparate as those two to be in positions 1 and 2 is clearly in need of a tune up. Those two rosters are by definition not in the same league!
Not sure why you see envy or ego here. I just think that if you look at the people ahead of you in the division, then you should, in general, be able to see how they are better than you or what you can do to improve.
If by "how they are better than you" you mean "how they win more rounds (or score higher) than you" you already can see that. Check their rosters and GAC histories on swgoh.gg.
For example, I noticed early on that when someone had a good bugs team I had very little chance against them and that alone put me at a disadvantage. So I'll soon have that.
Did you learn this from the leader boards or from your own matches/rounds?
A couple seasons ago I tried looking at the leader boards in order to see what those people were doing so I could try and get better and I saw that half the top ten I think I would have a pretty easy time against. So how do you improve at that point? That's my frustration here.
I assume you would become less frustrated if you learned how matchmaking works and how to improve your roster without putting yourself at a disadvantage MM wise.
You would probably also become less frustrated if you accepted the fact that the leaderboard ranks players by championship score and not by overall roster strength. Don't expect to see "the best player" or "the strongest roster overall" at the top of the leaderboard.
If you want advice on how to improve your performance in GAC you could post a link to your profile on swgoh.gg and ask for help.
If we remove the ego and envy from his point, there is of course some validity to it. Any Championship structure that allows players as disparate as those two to be in positions 1 and 2 is clearly in need of a tune up. Those two rosters are by definition not in the same league!
Not sure why you see envy or ego here. I just think that if you look at the people ahead of you in the division, then you should, in general, be able to see how they are better than you or what you can do to improve.
If by "how they are better than you" you mean "how they win more rounds (or score higher) than you" you already can see that. Check their rosters and GAC histories on swgoh.gg.
For example, I noticed early on that when someone had a good bugs team I had very little chance against them and that alone put me at a disadvantage. So I'll soon have that.
Did you learn this from the leader boards or from your own matches/rounds?
A couple seasons ago I tried looking at the leader boards in order to see what those people were doing so I could try and get better and I saw that half the top ten I think I would have a pretty easy time against. So how do you improve at that point? That's my frustration here.
I assume you would become less frustrated if you learned how matchmaking works and how to improve your roster without putting yourself at a disadvantage MM wise.
You would probably also become less frustrated if you accepted the fact that the leaderboard ranks players by championship score and not by overall roster strength. Don't expect to see "the best player" or "the strongest roster overall" at the top of the leaderboard.
If you want advice on how to improve your performance in GAC you could post a link to your profile on swgoh.gg and ask for help.
Are you a developer? Because you seem to be pretty determined to make an argument that it is done the way it should be but you don't use any logic. Like your boss made the rules and you don't have a say but have to justify it. No offense and I understand if that is the case, but otherwise I don't understand.
I don't need to "Check their rosters and GAC histories on swgoh.gg" to see how some of these leaders are the leaders - it is obvious it is because they don't compete against good competition. Which was the point of my original post - I think that is wrong. My opinion, my "feedback" for the feedback.
"I assume you would become less frustrated if you learned how matchmaking works " - again, I do understand. My "feedback" is that it is a stupid way to do things.
"You would probably also become less frustrated if you accepted the fact that the leaderboard ranks players by championship score and not by overall roster strength. Don't expect to see "the best player" or "the strongest roster overall" at the top of the leaderboard." I never said it should rank by roster strength. If that was all that ranking entailed, then playing the game would not be necessary. But yes, the best player (determined by how they spend their resources combined with how they then use those resources) should be at the top of the leader board.
The current system is comparable to ranking the best professional baseball teams by their win / loss records, paying them based on their rank, and ranking some AA teams and A teams ahead of major league teams because they have more wins. Nobody would think that made sense.
If we remove the ego and envy from his point, there is of course some validity to it. Any Championship structure that allows players as disparate as those two to be in positions 1 and 2 is clearly in need of a tune up. Those two rosters are by definition not in the same league!
Not sure why you see envy or ego here. I just think that if you look at the people ahead of you in the division, then you should, in general, be able to see how they are better than you or what you can do to improve.
If by "how they are better than you" you mean "how they win more rounds (or score higher) than you" you already can see that. Check their rosters and GAC histories on swgoh.gg.
For example, I noticed early on that when someone had a good bugs team I had very little chance against them and that alone put me at a disadvantage. So I'll soon have that.
Did you learn this from the leader boards or from your own matches/rounds?
A couple seasons ago I tried looking at the leader boards in order to see what those people were doing so I could try and get better and I saw that half the top ten I think I would have a pretty easy time against. So how do you improve at that point? That's my frustration here.
I assume you would become less frustrated if you learned how matchmaking works and how to improve your roster without putting yourself at a disadvantage MM wise.
You would probably also become less frustrated if you accepted the fact that the leaderboard ranks players by championship score and not by overall roster strength. Don't expect to see "the best player" or "the strongest roster overall" at the top of the leaderboard.
If you want advice on how to improve your performance in GAC you could post a link to your profile on swgoh.gg and ask for help.
Are you a developer? Because you seem to be pretty determined to make an argument that it is done the way it should be but you don't use any logic. Like your boss made the rules and you don't have a say but have to justify it. No offense and I understand if that is the case, but otherwise I don't understand.
I don't need to "Check their rosters and GAC histories on swgoh.gg" to see how some of these leaders are the leaders - it is obvious it is because they don't compete against good competition. Which was the point of my original post - I think that is wrong. My opinion, my "feedback" for the feedback.
You requested to be able to see how higher ranking players are better than you and how you can improve. You're already able to see that. You already have what you requested. I gave you advice on how to see it. Take it or leave it - your choice.
"I assume you would become less frustrated if you learned how matchmaking works " - again, I do understand. My "feedback" is that it is a stupid way to do things.
You comments in this discussion gave me the impression that you didn't quite understand it - but ok, you say you do. Yet you chose to develop your roster the way you did knowing that it would hurt your GA match making. Ok. Your choice. It's all good.
"You would probably also become less frustrated if you accepted the fact that the leaderboard ranks players by championship score and not by overall roster strength. Don't expect to see "the best player" or "the strongest roster overall" at the top of the leaderboard." I never said it should rank by roster strength. If that was all that ranking entailed, then playing the game would not be necessary. But yes, the best player (determined by how they spend their resources combined with how they then use those resources) should be at the top of the leader board.
The current system is comparable to ranking the best professional baseball teams by their win / loss records, paying them based on their rank, and ranking some AA teams and A teams ahead of major league teams because they have more wins. Nobody would think that made sense.
It wouldn't make sense in a baseball league. Agreed. This is not baseball. It's GAC. Ranking by championship score makes sense.
If we remove the ego and envy from his point, there is of course some validity to it. Any Championship structure that allows players as disparate as those two to be in positions 1 and 2 is clearly in need of a tune up. Those two rosters are by definition not in the same league!
Not sure why you see envy or ego here. I just think that if you look at the people ahead of you in the division, then you should, in general, be able to see how they are better than you or what you can do to improve.
If by "how they are better than you" you mean "how they win more rounds (or score higher) than you" you already can see that. Check their rosters and GAC histories on swgoh.gg.
For example, I noticed early on that when someone had a good bugs team I had very little chance against them and that alone put me at a disadvantage. So I'll soon have that.
Did you learn this from the leader boards or from your own matches/rounds?
A couple seasons ago I tried looking at the leader boards in order to see what those people were doing so I could try and get better and I saw that half the top ten I think I would have a pretty easy time against. So how do you improve at that point? That's my frustration here.
I assume you would become less frustrated if you learned how matchmaking works and how to improve your roster without putting yourself at a disadvantage MM wise.
You would probably also become less frustrated if you accepted the fact that the leaderboard ranks players by championship score and not by overall roster strength. Don't expect to see "the best player" or "the strongest roster overall" at the top of the leaderboard.
If you want advice on how to improve your performance in GAC you could post a link to your profile on swgoh.gg and ask for help.
Are you a developer? Because you seem to be pretty determined to make an argument that it is done the way it should be but you don't use any logic. Like your boss made the rules and you don't have a say but have to justify it. No offense and I understand if that is the case, but otherwise I don't understand.
I don't need to "Check their rosters and GAC histories on swgoh.gg" to see how some of these leaders are the leaders - it is obvious it is because they don't compete against good competition. Which was the point of my original post - I think that is wrong. My opinion, my "feedback" for the feedback.
You requested to be able to see how higher ranking players are better than you and how you can improve. You're already able to see that. You already have what you requested. I gave you advice on how to see it. Take it or leave it - your choice.
"I assume you would become less frustrated if you learned how matchmaking works " - again, I do understand. My "feedback" is that it is a stupid way to do things.
You comments in this discussion gave me the impression that you didn't quite understand it - but ok, you say you do. Yet you chose to develop your roster the way you did knowing that it would hurt your GA match making. Ok. Your choice. It's all good.
"You would probably also become less frustrated if you accepted the fact that the leaderboard ranks players by championship score and not by overall roster strength. Don't expect to see "the best player" or "the strongest roster overall" at the top of the leaderboard." I never said it should rank by roster strength. If that was all that ranking entailed, then playing the game would not be necessary. But yes, the best player (determined by how they spend their resources combined with how they then use those resources) should be at the top of the leader board.
The current system is comparable to ranking the best professional baseball teams by their win / loss records, paying them based on their rank, and ranking some AA teams and A teams ahead of major league teams because they have more wins. Nobody would think that made sense.
It wouldn't make sense in a baseball league. Agreed. This is not baseball. It's GAC. Ranking by championship score makes sense.
Sounds like a very long winded "yes". So one last time, just my feedback, your matchmaking system of dividing players by GP and then matching good players against good players and bad players against bad players sucks.
If we remove the ego and envy from his point, there is of course some validity to it. Any Championship structure that allows players as disparate as those two to be in positions 1 and 2 is clearly in need of a tune up. Those two rosters are by definition not in the same league!
Not sure why you see envy or ego here. I just think that if you look at the people ahead of you in the division, then you should, in general, be able to see how they are better than you or what you can do to improve.
If by "how they are better than you" you mean "how they win more rounds (or score higher) than you" you already can see that. Check their rosters and GAC histories on swgoh.gg.
For example, I noticed early on that when someone had a good bugs team I had very little chance against them and that alone put me at a disadvantage. So I'll soon have that.
Did you learn this from the leader boards or from your own matches/rounds?
A couple seasons ago I tried looking at the leader boards in order to see what those people were doing so I could try and get better and I saw that half the top ten I think I would have a pretty easy time against. So how do you improve at that point? That's my frustration here.
I assume you would become less frustrated if you learned how matchmaking works and how to improve your roster without putting yourself at a disadvantage MM wise.
You would probably also become less frustrated if you accepted the fact that the leaderboard ranks players by championship score and not by overall roster strength. Don't expect to see "the best player" or "the strongest roster overall" at the top of the leaderboard.
If you want advice on how to improve your performance in GAC you could post a link to your profile on swgoh.gg and ask for help.
Are you a developer? Because you seem to be pretty determined to make an argument that it is done the way it should be but you don't use any logic. Like your boss made the rules and you don't have a say but have to justify it. No offense and I understand if that is the case, but otherwise I don't understand.
I don't need to "Check their rosters and GAC histories on swgoh.gg" to see how some of these leaders are the leaders - it is obvious it is because they don't compete against good competition. Which was the point of my original post - I think that is wrong. My opinion, my "feedback" for the feedback.
You requested to be able to see how higher ranking players are better than you and how you can improve. You're already able to see that. You already have what you requested. I gave you advice on how to see it. Take it or leave it - your choice.
"I assume you would become less frustrated if you learned how matchmaking works " - again, I do understand. My "feedback" is that it is a stupid way to do things.
You comments in this discussion gave me the impression that you didn't quite understand it - but ok, you say you do. Yet you chose to develop your roster the way you did knowing that it would hurt your GA match making. Ok. Your choice. It's all good.
"You would probably also become less frustrated if you accepted the fact that the leaderboard ranks players by championship score and not by overall roster strength. Don't expect to see "the best player" or "the strongest roster overall" at the top of the leaderboard." I never said it should rank by roster strength. If that was all that ranking entailed, then playing the game would not be necessary. But yes, the best player (determined by how they spend their resources combined with how they then use those resources) should be at the top of the leader board.
The current system is comparable to ranking the best professional baseball teams by their win / loss records, paying them based on their rank, and ranking some AA teams and A teams ahead of major league teams because they have more wins. Nobody would think that made sense.
It wouldn't make sense in a baseball league. Agreed. This is not baseball. It's GAC. Ranking by championship score makes sense.
Sounds like a very long winded "yes". So one last time, just my feedback, your matchmaking system of dividing players by GP and then matching good players against good players and bad players against bad players sucks.
Your opinion is as valid as mine. If you manage to get your arguments straight you might even be able to convince the game designers that they should change it.
If we remove the ego and envy from his point, there is of course some validity to it. Any Championship structure that allows players as disparate as those two to be in positions 1 and 2 is clearly in need of a tune up. Those two rosters are by definition not in the same league!
Not sure why you see envy or ego here. I just think that if you look at the people ahead of you in the division, then you should, in general, be able to see how they are better than you or what you can do to improve.
If by "how they are better than you" you mean "how they win more rounds (or score higher) than you" you already can see that. Check their rosters and GAC histories on swgoh.gg.
For example, I noticed early on that when someone had a good bugs team I had very little chance against them and that alone put me at a disadvantage. So I'll soon have that.
Did you learn this from the leader boards or from your own matches/rounds?
A couple seasons ago I tried looking at the leader boards in order to see what those people were doing so I could try and get better and I saw that half the top ten I think I would have a pretty easy time against. So how do you improve at that point? That's my frustration here.
I assume you would become less frustrated if you learned how matchmaking works and how to improve your roster without putting yourself at a disadvantage MM wise.
You would probably also become less frustrated if you accepted the fact that the leaderboard ranks players by championship score and not by overall roster strength. Don't expect to see "the best player" or "the strongest roster overall" at the top of the leaderboard.
If you want advice on how to improve your performance in GAC you could post a link to your profile on swgoh.gg and ask for help.
Are you a developer? Because you seem to be pretty determined to make an argument that it is done the way it should be but you don't use any logic. Like your boss made the rules and you don't have a say but have to justify it. No offense and I understand if that is the case, but otherwise I don't understand.
I don't need to "Check their rosters and GAC histories on swgoh.gg" to see how some of these leaders are the leaders - it is obvious it is because they don't compete against good competition. Which was the point of my original post - I think that is wrong. My opinion, my "feedback" for the feedback.
You requested to be able to see how higher ranking players are better than you and how you can improve. You're already able to see that. You already have what you requested. I gave you advice on how to see it. Take it or leave it - your choice.
"I assume you would become less frustrated if you learned how matchmaking works " - again, I do understand. My "feedback" is that it is a stupid way to do things.
You comments in this discussion gave me the impression that you didn't quite understand it - but ok, you say you do. Yet you chose to develop your roster the way you did knowing that it would hurt your GA match making. Ok. Your choice. It's all good.
"You would probably also become less frustrated if you accepted the fact that the leaderboard ranks players by championship score and not by overall roster strength. Don't expect to see "the best player" or "the strongest roster overall" at the top of the leaderboard." I never said it should rank by roster strength. If that was all that ranking entailed, then playing the game would not be necessary. But yes, the best player (determined by how they spend their resources combined with how they then use those resources) should be at the top of the leader board.
The current system is comparable to ranking the best professional baseball teams by their win / loss records, paying them based on their rank, and ranking some AA teams and A teams ahead of major league teams because they have more wins. Nobody would think that made sense.
It wouldn't make sense in a baseball league. Agreed. This is not baseball. It's GAC. Ranking by championship score makes sense.
Sounds like a very long winded "yes". So one last time, just my feedback, your matchmaking system of dividing players by GP and then matching good players against good players and bad players against bad players sucks.
Your opinion is as valid as mine. If you manage to get your arguments straight you might even be able to convince the game designers that they should change it.
They could address this issue when they eventually address divisions (which is needed. The gap in division 1 is huge).
All they would have to do is make divisions based on matchmaking gp rather than total gp and the people with lower matchmaking gp but a high total gp would be in a lower division and not on the same leader boards.
The current situation is more a result of a quick fix to prevent uneven matchmaking rather than a planned approach. The current division structure was designed around full gp matchmaking.
If we remove the ego and envy from his point, there is of course some validity to it. Any Championship structure that allows players as disparate as those two to be in positions 1 and 2 is clearly in need of a tune up. Those two rosters are by definition not in the same league!
Not sure why you see envy or ego here. I just think that if you look at the people ahead of you in the division, then you should, in general, be able to see how they are better than you or what you can do to improve.
If by "how they are better than you" you mean "how they win more rounds (or score higher) than you" you already can see that. Check their rosters and GAC histories on swgoh.gg.
For example, I noticed early on that when someone had a good bugs team I had very little chance against them and that alone put me at a disadvantage. So I'll soon have that.
Did you learn this from the leader boards or from your own matches/rounds?
A couple seasons ago I tried looking at the leader boards in order to see what those people were doing so I could try and get better and I saw that half the top ten I think I would have a pretty easy time against. So how do you improve at that point? That's my frustration here.
I assume you would become less frustrated if you learned how matchmaking works and how to improve your roster without putting yourself at a disadvantage MM wise.
You would probably also become less frustrated if you accepted the fact that the leaderboard ranks players by championship score and not by overall roster strength. Don't expect to see "the best player" or "the strongest roster overall" at the top of the leaderboard.
If you want advice on how to improve your performance in GAC you could post a link to your profile on swgoh.gg and ask for help.
Are you a developer? Because you seem to be pretty determined to make an argument that it is done the way it should be but you don't use any logic. Like your boss made the rules and you don't have a say but have to justify it. No offense and I understand if that is the case, but otherwise I don't understand.
I don't need to "Check their rosters and GAC histories on swgoh.gg" to see how some of these leaders are the leaders - it is obvious it is because they don't compete against good competition. Which was the point of my original post - I think that is wrong. My opinion, my "feedback" for the feedback.
You requested to be able to see how higher ranking players are better than you and how you can improve. You're already able to see that. You already have what you requested. I gave you advice on how to see it. Take it or leave it - your choice.
"I assume you would become less frustrated if you learned how matchmaking works " - again, I do understand. My "feedback" is that it is a stupid way to do things.
You comments in this discussion gave me the impression that you didn't quite understand it - but ok, you say you do. Yet you chose to develop your roster the way you did knowing that it would hurt your GA match making. Ok. Your choice. It's all good.
"You would probably also become less frustrated if you accepted the fact that the leaderboard ranks players by championship score and not by overall roster strength. Don't expect to see "the best player" or "the strongest roster overall" at the top of the leaderboard." I never said it should rank by roster strength. If that was all that ranking entailed, then playing the game would not be necessary. But yes, the best player (determined by how they spend their resources combined with how they then use those resources) should be at the top of the leader board.
The current system is comparable to ranking the best professional baseball teams by their win / loss records, paying them based on their rank, and ranking some AA teams and A teams ahead of major league teams because they have more wins. Nobody would think that made sense.
It wouldn't make sense in a baseball league. Agreed. This is not baseball. It's GAC. Ranking by championship score makes sense.
Sounds like a very long winded "yes". So one last time, just my feedback, your matchmaking system of dividing players by GP and then matching good players against good players and bad players against bad players sucks.
Your opinion is as valid as mine. If you manage to get your arguments straight you might even be able to convince the game designers that they should change it.
They could address this issue when they eventually address divisions (which is needed. The gap in division 1 is huge).
All they would have to do is make divisions based on matchmaking gp rather than total gp and the people with lower matchmaking gp but a high total gp would be in a lower division and not on the same leader boards.
The current situation is more a result of a quick fix to prevent uneven matchmaking rather than a planned approach. The current division structure was designed around full gp matchmaking.
And then we would see even more complaints that "My opponent has way more GP than I do!!!"
If we remove the ego and envy from his point, there is of course some validity to it. Any Championship structure that allows players as disparate as those two to be in positions 1 and 2 is clearly in need of a tune up. Those two rosters are by definition not in the same league!
Not sure why you see envy or ego here. I just think that if you look at the people ahead of you in the division, then you should, in general, be able to see how they are better than you or what you can do to improve.
If by "how they are better than you" you mean "how they win more rounds (or score higher) than you" you already can see that. Check their rosters and GAC histories on swgoh.gg.
For example, I noticed early on that when someone had a good bugs team I had very little chance against them and that alone put me at a disadvantage. So I'll soon have that.
Did you learn this from the leader boards or from your own matches/rounds?
A couple seasons ago I tried looking at the leader boards in order to see what those people were doing so I could try and get better and I saw that half the top ten I think I would have a pretty easy time against. So how do you improve at that point? That's my frustration here.
I assume you would become less frustrated if you learned how matchmaking works and how to improve your roster without putting yourself at a disadvantage MM wise.
You would probably also become less frustrated if you accepted the fact that the leaderboard ranks players by championship score and not by overall roster strength. Don't expect to see "the best player" or "the strongest roster overall" at the top of the leaderboard.
If you want advice on how to improve your performance in GAC you could post a link to your profile on swgoh.gg and ask for help.
Are you a developer? Because you seem to be pretty determined to make an argument that it is done the way it should be but you don't use any logic. Like your boss made the rules and you don't have a say but have to justify it. No offense and I understand if that is the case, but otherwise I don't understand.
I don't need to "Check their rosters and GAC histories on swgoh.gg" to see how some of these leaders are the leaders - it is obvious it is because they don't compete against good competition. Which was the point of my original post - I think that is wrong. My opinion, my "feedback" for the feedback.
You requested to be able to see how higher ranking players are better than you and how you can improve. You're already able to see that. You already have what you requested. I gave you advice on how to see it. Take it or leave it - your choice.
"I assume you would become less frustrated if you learned how matchmaking works " - again, I do understand. My "feedback" is that it is a stupid way to do things.
You comments in this discussion gave me the impression that you didn't quite understand it - but ok, you say you do. Yet you chose to develop your roster the way you did knowing that it would hurt your GA match making. Ok. Your choice. It's all good.
"You would probably also become less frustrated if you accepted the fact that the leaderboard ranks players by championship score and not by overall roster strength. Don't expect to see "the best player" or "the strongest roster overall" at the top of the leaderboard." I never said it should rank by roster strength. If that was all that ranking entailed, then playing the game would not be necessary. But yes, the best player (determined by how they spend their resources combined with how they then use those resources) should be at the top of the leader board.
The current system is comparable to ranking the best professional baseball teams by their win / loss records, paying them based on their rank, and ranking some AA teams and A teams ahead of major league teams because they have more wins. Nobody would think that made sense.
It wouldn't make sense in a baseball league. Agreed. This is not baseball. It's GAC. Ranking by championship score makes sense.
Sounds like a very long winded "yes". So one last time, just my feedback, your matchmaking system of dividing players by GP and then matching good players against good players and bad players against bad players sucks.
Your opinion is as valid as mine. If you manage to get your arguments straight you might even be able to convince the game designers that they should change it.
They could address this issue when they eventually address divisions (which is needed. The gap in division 1 is huge).
All they would have to do is make divisions based on matchmaking gp rather than total gp and the people with lower matchmaking gp but a high total gp would be in a lower division and not on the same leader boards.
The current situation is more a result of a quick fix to prevent uneven matchmaking rather than a planned approach. The current division structure was designed around full gp matchmaking.
And then we would see even more complaints that "My opponent has way more GP than I do!!!"
You can't stop complaining. But if gp means nothing below the top 80 or whatever number they use for matchmaking, then the divisions should reflect that.
It would probably help if they displayed that number somewhere in game though so you could answer those complaints with your matchmaking gp matches more easily.
The top account in division 1 right now has zero GLs and less than 20 relic'ed toons.
It's silly to group an account like that with all the top accounts in the game. They don't have that "#1 account" fight good accounts, so they shouldn't have them compete against each other for GA ranking either. Better to do away with divisions altogether, or flatten somehow.
Why would anyone care about ranking high on the leaderboard? You don't get extra rewards for it. All you have to worry about is the battles in front of you. Win those, you get max rewards. Worrying about the leaderboard is simple vanity.
Why would anyone care about ranking high on the leaderboard? You don't get extra rewards for it. All you have to worry about is the battles in front of you. Win those, you get max rewards. Worrying about the leaderboard is simple vanity.
Ehhh....
If you win Kyber you get 5500 GAC currency, whilst you get 3200 GAC if you’re outside top 200.
Replies
I was fine with it before and fine with it now.
I think that would be overly complicated and likely lead to complaining that they accidentally joined the wrong league and it's CGs fault.
I was ok with pure gp matchmaking since everyone had the opportunity to build good teams as someone with the same gp as them. But they decided to go with gp of top teams only.
At this point it is what it is. There are benefits to the new system and there are drawbacks. Your issue is simply one of the drawbacks. It isn't even a very large one really.
The real irony is that the change from gp to effective gp did very little to stop the complaining from those that build bad rosters. They still want it to account fo rgb someone else getting a GL when they didn't. I personally am of the mind of making matchmaking roughly equal as l (go or effective gp) and leaving the rest up to me.
Just look at the current matchmaking as a compromise between those like yourself that want it off of gp, and those that want it to hold their hand and correct all of their mistakes
It may not be what you think is ideal but it isn't that bad either.
And I highly doubt that the person with g11 has gone as broad as to gear up jawas. But you never know. It may just be that you have played longer and you only gear one team at a time and hoard gear instead of putting it on other characters.
There are also other reasons to gear toons other than gac. Events, tb, legendary requirements, ect...
If I favorite all of the characters that are required for just GLs, you get far more than are needed at div 9 and not that many great teams. But in the long run, you will need to gear them eventually. Some people just take a different path to do so.
This is the feedback section, so I'm just leaving feedback, not looking for answers. I am about to walk from the game - not because I'm losing to players better than me, but because I'm losing to players not as good as me that don't have to compete with me. I guess they are doing what they think makes the most people happy, but it sucks when you have tried to get better and finish behind those that don't try or are very bad at it.
If your opponents are not as good as you why do you lose, then? Apparently they played a better GA than you - either by developing a roster more suitable for GA than yours, by using better tactics than you or by executing their tactics better than you.
Regarding over/under matching:
It was still just the first GA of four. As you progress through the championship the effect of leagues will grow and matches will be more even in the final GA.
I'm not talking about my opponents - that is exactly the point. You are exactly right about my opponents and I have no problem with that. It's the players at the top of the leader board that continue to reap the most rewards out of GAC while obviously being set up to Not play good teams.
Really?
I’m not sure why people care so much about this. It seems clear to me that GAC absolutely does not identify the very best PvP players, more the very best roster managers.
There is a rewards gap, of course, with those in the top ranks of Kyber earning a chunk more GAC currency than the scrubs like me who just qualify for Kyber, but even then I personally have long accepted that the sort of people I’m being matched with make it nigh on impossible for me to compete with the scores the roster managers can achieve against their opposition.
Me, and this guy, can’t control who other people are matched with and how many points they earn. I just try to win every match and qualify for Kyber. That’s all that I can influence so it’s all I choose to worry about.
So, by "losing" he means "ranking lower on the leader boards"? Hrmm..... OK.
I am pretty sure that's what he means.
I mean, if you look at the very top of Div1 right now, I'm sure you or I would salivate at the prospect of being matched against them https://swgoh.gg/p/764236429/ !
Not sure I fancy taking on the guy currently in second though... https://swgoh.gg/p/427513365/
If we remove the ego and envy from his point, there is of course some validity to it. Any Championship structure that allows players as disparate as those two to be in positions 1 and 2 is clearly in need of a tune up. Those two rosters are by definition not in the same league!
You cannot possibly tell me that roster is among the best managed!
And this roster is simply maxed to the extent that is relevant. Not so much a measure of good management as of excess resources.
The GP spread in division 1 currently is ridiculous, yes: 4.5m GP to 9m+ GP is far too much.
But you cannot eliminate the fact that the top ranked players in a division cannot necessarily be matched against each other unless you remove GP from matchmaking and simply say that higher GP = better player and therefore deserves the top ranks, which is a steaming pile of Bantha pudu.
It probably is, yes.
Yes. Losing the overall competition. That is why they keep the leader board, right? If you start at the beginning of the thread I think you can see that.
*sigh*
Please correct your quotations. Those are not my words.
If by "how they are better than you" you mean "how they win more rounds (or score higher) than you" you already can see that. Check their rosters and GAC histories on swgoh.gg.
Did you learn this from the leader boards or from your own matches/rounds?
I assume you would become less frustrated if you learned how matchmaking works and how to improve your roster without putting yourself at a disadvantage MM wise.
You would probably also become less frustrated if you accepted the fact that the leaderboard ranks players by championship score and not by overall roster strength. Don't expect to see "the best player" or "the strongest roster overall" at the top of the leaderboard.
If you want advice on how to improve your performance in GAC you could post a link to your profile on swgoh.gg and ask for help.
Are you a developer? Because you seem to be pretty determined to make an argument that it is done the way it should be but you don't use any logic. Like your boss made the rules and you don't have a say but have to justify it. No offense and I understand if that is the case, but otherwise I don't understand.
I don't need to "Check their rosters and GAC histories on swgoh.gg" to see how some of these leaders are the leaders - it is obvious it is because they don't compete against good competition. Which was the point of my original post - I think that is wrong. My opinion, my "feedback" for the feedback.
"I assume you would become less frustrated if you learned how matchmaking works " - again, I do understand. My "feedback" is that it is a stupid way to do things.
"You would probably also become less frustrated if you accepted the fact that the leaderboard ranks players by championship score and not by overall roster strength. Don't expect to see "the best player" or "the strongest roster overall" at the top of the leaderboard." I never said it should rank by roster strength. If that was all that ranking entailed, then playing the game would not be necessary. But yes, the best player (determined by how they spend their resources combined with how they then use those resources) should be at the top of the leader board.
The current system is comparable to ranking the best professional baseball teams by their win / loss records, paying them based on their rank, and ranking some AA teams and A teams ahead of major league teams because they have more wins. Nobody would think that made sense.
You requested to be able to see how higher ranking players are better than you and how you can improve. You're already able to see that. You already have what you requested. I gave you advice on how to see it. Take it or leave it - your choice.
You comments in this discussion gave me the impression that you didn't quite understand it - but ok, you say you do. Yet you chose to develop your roster the way you did knowing that it would hurt your GA match making. Ok. Your choice. It's all good.
They are.
It wouldn't make sense in a baseball league. Agreed. This is not baseball. It's GAC. Ranking by championship score makes sense.
Sounds like a very long winded "yes". So one last time, just my feedback, your matchmaking system of dividing players by GP and then matching good players against good players and bad players against bad players sucks.
Your opinion is as valid as mine. If you manage to get your arguments straight you might even be able to convince the game designers that they should change it.
They could address this issue when they eventually address divisions (which is needed. The gap in division 1 is huge).
All they would have to do is make divisions based on matchmaking gp rather than total gp and the people with lower matchmaking gp but a high total gp would be in a lower division and not on the same leader boards.
The current situation is more a result of a quick fix to prevent uneven matchmaking rather than a planned approach. The current division structure was designed around full gp matchmaking.
You can't stop complaining. But if gp means nothing below the top 80 or whatever number they use for matchmaking, then the divisions should reflect that.
It would probably help if they displayed that number somewhere in game though so you could answer those complaints with your matchmaking gp matches more easily.
It's silly to group an account like that with all the top accounts in the game. They don't have that "#1 account" fight good accounts, so they shouldn't have them compete against each other for GA ranking either. Better to do away with divisions altogether, or flatten somehow.
Check top of chromium, where the real leaders are.
If you win Kyber you get 5500 GAC currency, whilst you get 3200 GAC if you’re outside top 200.
Doesn’t sound like vanity to me?
Sounds like someone that has never paid attention to the rewards.