All I'm getting from this is frustration that the mats can't be outright purchased yet. Because that's the only fundamental difference between the new mod mats and the existing ones. Both are farmed (though at different rates obviously) and used in hopes of getting good rolls that rely on the available secondary stats and chance.
But to the OPs point, this new mod meta can take a mod decent mod and turn it into a trash mod if you don't get the right rolls.
Only if you risk your hard gained resources on decent mods to begin with. If you try to make your good mods great, at worst, they stay good. I'm actually at 0 speed increase on my best x4 speed mods (sad, but whatyougonnado ?) but they're still on my arena team, because they were my best mods to begin with. I'm just waiting for next week to spin the wheel of fortune again. I hope GAC, that gives slicing material to begin with, will update the rewards to give us more tickets for the wheel.
I think it's a "rich guy" problem. If you already have 25 speed mods on your speedy guys, then you have only room to improve another secondary, so in this case yes, it's a new rng fest with less chances to roll the dice. But if you still have place to improve your modding, then it's a chance to obtain those specialized mods (x5 speed, x5 offense..) that you're looking for.
The GOP's original post is a bit hyperbolic. He is saying out of 8 rolls that some ef have rolled speed 8 times and some have rolled it zero. They way he says it makes it sound like he's rolled zero and everyone else has rolled 8
That is just not how rng work. Assuming everyone is trying to roll speed that has rolled 4 times to a 5th roll the odds of rolling it each time is 25%. The odds of getting the one you want 8 times in a row is .001 %. So very few players if any have rolled speed 8 times out of 8 times.
It is likely that many players have rolled speed once or twice. As time goes on more people will get 5 rolls of speed. But so will the op.
I also have not had any mods suddenly becom eff trash from trying and failing to slice speed one more time. My +21 speed mod that failed is still +21 speed with another stat slightly higher. It may eventually be replaced by one that does roll 5 times (I haven't gotten any to 6A yet) if it doesn't roll speed enough. But it'll still replace a mod on another character that only has a +15 speed right now. And even that will take awhile to get to the point where that mod doesn't have a place on my arena team. Stating that if it doesn't roll speed a 5th time, it is suddenly trash is just not true. That's like saying that every mod that only rolled to 15 speed was trash. Are they arena grade? No. But they have a place in other areas unless you just have a ton of +20 speed mods.
I didn’t mean to over complicate my stance. I have sliced 8 mods that are 6e or higher with the new mats. Speed has hit 0 times in those 8 slices. Of course this doesn’t make those mods trash. But this provides a disadvantage to me that is uncontrollable. I also admitted that if I had roled speed (even once tbh) I would have never made this post. Even people on this thread are trying to argue that in fact they might not even choose speed to hit which I find laughable. Clearly not everyone agrees. I was naive to think we could all get behind the idea of removing slice rng from a competitive mobile game. But the differing opinions on this thread actually make effective change to favor all players basically impossible so in the end I shouldn’t blame cg. It’s the player base.
In other words, my grey T5 mod with 5 speed showing now has 8 chances to be 20+ as opposed to only 4.
If that's not helping reduce RNG, I don't know what is.....
You're not taking into account the actual probability of rolling speed 4 of the 8 times. You can still roll speed 0 times.
Again check the previous posts, you're probability for additional speed rolls will only increase significantly if there's another stat that's already maxed.
So ****... math, probability of independent events occurring X times in Y trials.....
If I did it right....
Back when we had 4 rolls, the probability of all 4 hitting speed was roughly .3%.
Now that we get 8 rolls, the probability of 4 of them hitting speed is roughly 8.6% (and that's not taking into account another stat that can max, cause quite frankly that math would make my head hurt.)
So long story short..... More rolls, higher odds of maxing your speed rolls. (Of course 4 speed rolls hitting could result in anything from 15 to 30 speed, and I have no clue as to what the odds of a 3 role vs a 6 role are.....).
.....well there's several things wrong with this post. Maybe the most massive being "speed is most important" "Speed is all that matters" Maybe to those of you with loads of +25 speed mods this is true, but for us lowly beings without the good rng to even get a +25 (rolled my first one in 3 1/2 years of playing a month and a half ago; my first +20 was about a year ago) we have to learn to make use of other aspects of our mods to beat faster opponents.
Throw all the speed you want on GG. It won't make him better. Throw all the speed you want on JKL. It won't make him better. During the Dralak meta I was definitely not the fastest one in my shard. I was barely breaking 320 speed on DRevs while the others had 340+ DRevan and 310+ Badsty. But I had a much harder to kill Malak with high protection and health and a very tanky SET and fantastic offense mods on HK that got me to 1st place regularly.
You know, you don't even bother to explain how the new mod slicing 'breaks the game even more'. Just wanted a clickbaity title?
.....well there's several things wrong with this post. Maybe the most massive being "speed is most important" "Speed is all that matters" Maybe to those of you with loads of +25 speed mods this is true, but for us lowly beings without the good rng to even get a +25 (rolled my first one in 3 1/2 years of playing a month and a half ago; my first +20 was about a year ago) we have to learn to make use of other aspects of our mods to beat faster opponents.
Throw all the speed you want on GG. It won't make him better. Throw all the speed you want on JKL. It won't make him better. During the Dralak meta I was definitely not the fastest one in my shard. I was barely breaking 320 speed on DRevs while the others had 340+ DRevan and 310+ Badsty. But I had a much harder to kill Malak with high protection and health and a very tanky SET and fantastic offense mods on HK that got me to 1st place regularly.
You know, you don't even bother to explain how the new mod slicing 'breaks the game even more'. Just wanted a clickbaity title?
I've been playing less than a year, and I have 4+20 mods and one +25(got lucky with one of the new slices). But I've spent a lot of time, credits, and store currency for slicing mats. As much as I hate to go @TVF on you, that sounds like a resource management issue. Speed helps me stay near the top of my arena and helps me underman in Gac(which leads to more slicing mats)
I agree, but there is almost nothing in this game that cant be overcome with the players skill.
Which is why, if you're an average player, you're taking 1st place in Arena every day. Just get a little skill, and POW! 1st in Arena. That's how it works.
Why is the mod "trashed" if it doesn't upgrade speed? Yes, that may be the attribute you (everyone) favours but a mod with plus 20 speed is still that even if it doesn't slice. A good mod doesn't become a bad one, surely?
Mods are good or bad only in relation to other mods.
If you have a +17 mod that can take 2 more improvements to speed, it could become a god mod with +26 or +27 speed. Or it could gain no speed at all. The mod itself doesn't get worse, but ...
...If you spend your efforts on mods with great potential and they do not improve, statistics say that you're an outlier. Most people who start with +17 are going to end up with something over +20.
If you have 5x +17 speed secondary mods on your character and face other people in Arena & GAC who are using, on average 5x +17 mods, then you're in an even fight.
If your mods stay the same while the other player's average increases to +25, then you're now at a -40 speed disadvantage. The mods didn't get worse, but your character is in a much worse situation with respect to other characters than it was before.
For existing PvE events, the mod is exactly the same. But for new PvE events, CG will start scaling up the difficulty to match the expectation of "average" mods under the new system. If your mods aren't average or better, then new PvE content (such as a raid) is harder for you than it is for your guild mates and competitors.
It's not that your mods get worse, it's that everyone else's got better ... and so did the PvE opponents.
So in the new normal, what was a good (but not god-like) mod can become below average, which is the OPPOSITE of good.
It's easiest to see in exaggeration - if CG suddenly handed out 50 or 100 mods to each of your opponents that had +100 speed secondaries, would you be content with your current mods because they didn't get worse?
Of course not. The new normal won't be that extreme, but you can easily imaging RNG varying enough so that a few months down the road, the average speed of your arena opponents has increased by +30 or +40 per character for 4 out of the 5 characters, while a few lucky people gain +30 or +40 per character for all 5 characters and some unlucky people gain +30 or +40 per character for only 3 characters because not as many mods hit on the speed secondaries.
Will the person who gains +35/character for only 3 toons be at a disadvantage compared to someone with +35 per character for all 5 toons?
Of course.
And did the player with only 3 improved toons show less skill or commitment? Nope.
And did the player with 5 improved toons show extra skill? Extra commitment? Nope.
Sure, on average mods will get better, and against existing PvE content that means you'll have a somewhat easier time. But the average person won't have an easier time in PvP, because their experience is average - meaning their opponents got better by the same amount. But some will have a harder time and some will have an easier time because of their bad or good luck.
And those players with bad luck will get disappointed in mods that used to be above average and are now below average not because their speed scores were reduced but because the average passed them by.
All of which is to say, if all you care about is TB, then the new mods are good. If you care about all the other game modes, then the new mods require more work but won't make the vast majority of people any better in those other game modes. And for some, their current mods, in those PvP modes, will become worse.
And so it's to be expected that a lot of people are going to hate this new level of busywork.
Anyone talking about being on the bad side of rng after a few events (any type of rolls, not only this mod thread) is safe to ignore.
0 speed hits from 7 attempts so far.
Ignore away.
Yes, and meaningless in long term as we'll even out (assuming we are both completing all tiers). It's just a temporary scarcity. The practical implication isn't world shattering either. Someone else get 3-4/7 compared to your 0. Not a big deal.
The real deal is the previous investment towards mods; say I have 200 15+s and you have 100 15+s to play with. While upgrading all of us will end up missing the last speed bump on gold 6s.
Replies
Only if you risk your hard gained resources on decent mods to begin with. If you try to make your good mods great, at worst, they stay good. I'm actually at 0 speed increase on my best x4 speed mods (sad, but whatyougonnado ?) but they're still on my arena team, because they were my best mods to begin with. I'm just waiting for next week to spin the wheel of fortune again. I hope GAC, that gives slicing material to begin with, will update the rewards to give us more tickets for the wheel.
I think it's a "rich guy" problem. If you already have 25 speed mods on your speedy guys, then you have only room to improve another secondary, so in this case yes, it's a new rng fest with less chances to roll the dice. But if you still have place to improve your modding, then it's a chance to obtain those specialized mods (x5 speed, x5 offense..) that you're looking for.
That is just not how rng work. Assuming everyone is trying to roll speed that has rolled 4 times to a 5th roll the odds of rolling it each time is 25%. The odds of getting the one you want 8 times in a row is .001 %. So very few players if any have rolled speed 8 times out of 8 times.
It is likely that many players have rolled speed once or twice. As time goes on more people will get 5 rolls of speed. But so will the op.
I also have not had any mods suddenly becom eff trash from trying and failing to slice speed one more time. My +21 speed mod that failed is still +21 speed with another stat slightly higher. It may eventually be replaced by one that does roll 5 times (I haven't gotten any to 6A yet) if it doesn't roll speed enough. But it'll still replace a mod on another character that only has a +15 speed right now. And even that will take awhile to get to the point where that mod doesn't have a place on my arena team. Stating that if it doesn't roll speed a 5th time, it is suddenly trash is just not true. That's like saying that every mod that only rolled to 15 speed was trash. Are they arena grade? No. But they have a place in other areas unless you just have a ton of +20 speed mods.
Tier 5a mods have plus 4 buffs to secondaries
Tier 6a mods have plus 8 buffs to secondaries
Tier 7a mods will have plus 12 buffs to secondaries
Tier 8a mods have plus 16 buffs to secondaries
By the time we get to 8a mods all the speed will be + (5) and so will all other 3 secondary stats. We are just inching our way there.
So ****... math, probability of independent events occurring X times in Y trials.....
If I did it right....
Back when we had 4 rolls, the probability of all 4 hitting speed was roughly .3%.
Now that we get 8 rolls, the probability of 4 of them hitting speed is roughly 8.6% (and that's not taking into account another stat that can max, cause quite frankly that math would make my head hurt.)
So long story short..... More rolls, higher odds of maxing your speed rolls. (Of course 4 speed rolls hitting could result in anything from 15 to 30 speed, and I have no clue as to what the odds of a 3 role vs a 6 role are.....).
Throw all the speed you want on GG. It won't make him better. Throw all the speed you want on JKL. It won't make him better. During the Dralak meta I was definitely not the fastest one in my shard. I was barely breaking 320 speed on DRevs while the others had 340+ DRevan and 310+ Badsty. But I had a much harder to kill Malak with high protection and health and a very tanky SET and fantastic offense mods on HK that got me to 1st place regularly.
You know, you don't even bother to explain how the new mod slicing 'breaks the game even more'. Just wanted a clickbaity title?
I've been playing less than a year, and I have 4+20 mods and one +25(got lucky with one of the new slices). But I've spent a lot of time, credits, and store currency for slicing mats. As much as I hate to go @TVF on you, that sounds like a resource management issue. Speed helps me stay near the top of my arena and helps me underman in Gac(which leads to more slicing mats)
Ignore away.
Which is why, if you're an average player, you're taking 1st place in Arena every day. Just get a little skill, and POW! 1st in Arena. That's how it works.
Mods are good or bad only in relation to other mods.
...If you spend your efforts on mods with great potential and they do not improve, statistics say that you're an outlier. Most people who start with +17 are going to end up with something over +20.
If you have 5x +17 speed secondary mods on your character and face other people in Arena & GAC who are using, on average 5x +17 mods, then you're in an even fight.
If your mods stay the same while the other player's average increases to +25, then you're now at a -40 speed disadvantage. The mods didn't get worse, but your character is in a much worse situation with respect to other characters than it was before.
For existing PvE events, the mod is exactly the same. But for new PvE events, CG will start scaling up the difficulty to match the expectation of "average" mods under the new system. If your mods aren't average or better, then new PvE content (such as a raid) is harder for you than it is for your guild mates and competitors.
It's not that your mods get worse, it's that everyone else's got better ... and so did the PvE opponents.
So in the new normal, what was a good (but not god-like) mod can become below average, which is the OPPOSITE of good.
It's easiest to see in exaggeration - if CG suddenly handed out 50 or 100 mods to each of your opponents that had +100 speed secondaries, would you be content with your current mods because they didn't get worse?
Of course not. The new normal won't be that extreme, but you can easily imaging RNG varying enough so that a few months down the road, the average speed of your arena opponents has increased by +30 or +40 per character for 4 out of the 5 characters, while a few lucky people gain +30 or +40 per character for all 5 characters and some unlucky people gain +30 or +40 per character for only 3 characters because not as many mods hit on the speed secondaries.
Will the person who gains +35/character for only 3 toons be at a disadvantage compared to someone with +35 per character for all 5 toons?
Of course.
And did the player with only 3 improved toons show less skill or commitment? Nope.
And did the player with 5 improved toons show extra skill? Extra commitment? Nope.
Sure, on average mods will get better, and against existing PvE content that means you'll have a somewhat easier time. But the average person won't have an easier time in PvP, because their experience is average - meaning their opponents got better by the same amount. But some will have a harder time and some will have an easier time because of their bad or good luck.
And those players with bad luck will get disappointed in mods that used to be above average and are now below average not because their speed scores were reduced but because the average passed them by.
All of which is to say, if all you care about is TB, then the new mods are good. If you care about all the other game modes, then the new mods require more work but won't make the vast majority of people any better in those other game modes. And for some, their current mods, in those PvP modes, will become worse.
And so it's to be expected that a lot of people are going to hate this new level of busywork.
Yes, and meaningless in long term as we'll even out (assuming we are both completing all tiers). It's just a temporary scarcity. The practical implication isn't world shattering either. Someone else get 3-4/7 compared to your 0. Not a big deal.
The real deal is the previous investment towards mods; say I have 200 15+s and you have 100 15+s to play with. While upgrading all of us will end up missing the last speed bump on gold 6s.