Can we get a new ship meta?

Prev13
It’s long over due, the negotiator and malevolence are getting extremely old.

Replies

  • Twi
    205 posts Member
    It would be nice!!
  • Nauros
    3791 posts Member
    Has anyone tested 7* Raddus or Finalizer in the wild? I have some success against weaker Negos with my 6* Raddus with Res + leftovers fleet, 7* and better fleet could push it to competitive level.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • I enjoy the free crystals as well but I’d much rather diversity. It gets old quick and quite boring when day in day out it’s the same thing over and over. Guys in my fleet shard have tried the finalizer and don’t give it much praise.
  • StarSon wrote: »
    Instead of a new meta, how about Ship Mods. At least allow for more variance in matchups. Something to add more strategy than a coin flip.

    Please don't do this.

    I agree that the current mod system would be poorly implemented if applied to ships in similar fashion. But having something optimized for ships that function similarly to mods would make the meta more than a series of Nego vs Mal and the occasional mirror match.
  • Nauros
    3791 posts Member
    StarSon wrote: »
    Instead of a new meta, how about Ship Mods. At least allow for more variance in matchups. Something to add more strategy than a coin flip.

    Please don't do this.

    I agree that the current mod system would be poorly implemented if applied to ships in similar fashion. But having something optimized for ships that function similarly to mods would make the meta more than a series of Nego vs Mal and the occasional mirror match.

    In another thread, I suggested an overhaul of the pilot system that would achieve something close to the effect of mods. The idea was that any ship could be piloted by any pilot, maybe with added bonuses for faction or "original" pilots (If Mil F is piloted by Han, it gets bonus XY). Besides unlocking the pilot ability, each pilot (or a group of pilots, to make balancing easier) could affect the ship stats slightly differently, achieving the mod-like effect. And they could add ships freely without worrying about flooding the game with otherwise useless pilots.
    Revive the stores, the game needs it.
  • I hate all these ship system ideas. But yes, new fleet meta.

    Remember Palpmobile in that first Galactic Chase, and all the Sith ships? Ravager maybe? Final Order star destroyer?
  • Anything really just something to spark new life into fleets. Even if it is things as mods for ships or enhancements that you have to unlock for each ship just something at this point.
  • TVF
    26682 posts Member
    I was worried about how stale this meta was becoming, however my shard is so bad/lazy/indifferent that I still only fall into the high teens with Mal so it's fine.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Lowest I fallen is 24, with the Mal as well since I unlocked it however long ago (I did the Mal first).
  • My shard is super active. If I don't pay attention during the day I can fall into the 70s or 80s.
  • What’s wrong with having more of an equal field on ships? I personally like it that way. In fact i enjoy ship battles more than arena. Hard to believe.
  • TVF
    26682 posts Member
    What’s wrong with having more of an equal field on ships? I personally like it that way. In fact i enjoy ship battles more than arena. Hard to believe.

    Speaking to arena, I don't want an equal field because i work on getting the meta so i don't have to spend all day climbing for payout.

    I'd do the same for ships if it were (1) possible and (2) necessary.
    The CGDF is recruiting. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • @Nerfherder7563 i totally agree with TVF no way do I want an equal playing field.

    An equal playing field is for people that can’t compete and get the participation medals. I put time and effort into my rosters and crew I don’t want someone coming in because they over time got the meta ship on participation only and can now beat all fleets
  • All you really need is to finish the Resistance & FO fleets with some decent ships. FO needs a great Tank, a secondary tank with support abilities and/or a ship that can give Taunt to any ship of their choosing + some other support abilities, and then one more. I'm thinking a sacrifice attacker for the last one. Something that isn't too bad as an attacker, but that also sacrifices itself to save another ship. This would work a lot like Fives's sacrifice, but it doesn't give a bonus to the whole fleet/faction. It just gives some bonuses to the ship it saves, then brings it back to full health/protection. The bonuses don't even have to be big:An increase in defense, max health, speed, or offense could all be justified, but I might not want to do all of them, and I definitely wouldn't want to make the bonuses as large as adding the sacrifice ship's stats to the ship that got saved. But one thing that's certain: I would take the Turn Meter of the sacrifice ship & add it to the ship that got saved, then give the saved ship Advantage. That would create some interesting strategy in trying to kill a ship when the Sacrifice Ship's TM is low, but not prioritizing that so much that you kill the wrong ship (like the Silencer, obviously) and give full health/protection to what was already the strongest ship on the field. Actually this sounds like an interesting idea. I'll write it up.


    Resistance needs a good-to-great tank (it can get away with a little less because of the foresight Resistance spreads around) + a couple more ships. I spent a great deal of time working up an A-Wing, a Starfortress bomber (the ship that destroyed the dreadnaught) and that needed tank, which I assigned to the Hammerhead Corvette, but the kit could be given to a smaller ship (it's nothing near as big as a Capital Ship, but it is pretty big to be included in a fighter fleet, which makes it just a bit awkward no matter what you do with it).

  • The thing really holding ships back is the pilot mechanic. The ships should never have had pilots. Maybe gear levels but the pilot thing really holds fleets back. Theres dozens of imperial rebel ships ships alone. So many variations that could have been done. If they simply must have had nonship toons involved it should have been limited to capital ships. I personally would like to see a complete overhaul of the whole thing.
  • Dagonsith wrote: »
    The thing really holding ships back is the pilot mechanic. The ships should never have had pilots. Maybe gear levels but the pilot thing really holds fleets back. Theres dozens of imperial rebel ships ships alone. So many variations that could have been done. If they simply must have had nonship toons involved it should have been limited to capital ships. I personally would like to see a complete overhaul of the whole thing.

    They've already started moving away from pilots. Pilots are an issue - but not the most glaring.

    IMHO, there are 3 things that make fleet extremely uninteresting:

    1) New ships/capital ships are released at glacial speeds. There were 3 capital ships when ships started. Since then, there has been approximately 1 capital ship released/year. Basically, ships have basically been left to rot on the proverbial vine by the development team.

    2) Lack of variability - even within the meta (partially as a result of point 1 - but also because of 3). 8 capital ships is similar to only having 8 "leader abilities" in squads. And in GAC, you have to field at least 4 of your 8. There are 4 times as many characters - and you only need 5 in a squad, whereas a fleet can have 8 ships.

    3) Dropping down to only 3 starting ships from 5. This not only limits options, it limits strategy, lessens the player's ability to effect outcome, increases effect of RNG, etc.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Whatelse73
    1015 posts Member
    edited November 2020
    Maybe they'll bring out the razorcrest so they can make more money from fleets? They haven't cared about fleets since before 2.0 happened.

    By the way, what's up with han's millenium falcon having 100% dodge rate if it's the last ship? I had one literally dodge 8 attacks in a row (Yes, I counted), even while it was HUNTED. Please fix this kind of rubbish while you're fixing fleets, please and thank you. It is ridiculous how neglected fleets are at this point.

    I'd also like to add, I wish I had even half the "50% chance to assist" rate as the AI's falcon when I'm doing a mirror match. I didn't even have that much. I saw about 5 assists in one volley and I got ONE assist. Yay!

    Hopefully Moff Gideon doesn't have a capital ship show up this season of Mando, or CG will give us another capital ship we can't put ships with since we don't have enough ships to fill all the ones we have currently.
  • @Whatelse73

    What you're seeing is that the other squad probably only has 2 rebels out + Hound's tooth or maybe you've just killed one & they have 2 rebels left.

    Falcon has a 50% chance to assist a toon that uses an ability ON ITS OWN TURN. So on Falcon's turn, it calls one assist & that's it.

    But if another rebel goes, the n Falcon has a 50% shot at assisting. But once Falcon goes, Falcon calls a random rebel ally. If you have 3 rebels besides Falcon on the field, there's only a 1-in-3 chance of calling the ship whose turn it actually is, and then there's only a 50% chance of calling the falcon again. That means only a 1-in-6 chance of keeping the cycle going.

    But if your only rebels are Falcon + 1, then when the other ship goes, it has a 50% chance of calling the falcon, which has a 100% chance of calling the original ship whose turn it is. That's 3 attacks. But then you have a 50% chance of calling the falcon again, which will automatically call that same original ship. That's 5 attacks, and that happens one time in 4 that Falcon is part of an active fleet with only 2 rebels - assuming it's the other rebel's turn.

    So in a 2 ship fleet, you chance of 3 attacks is 1-in-2, but 5 attacks is still 1-in-4. But in a 4 ship fleet you chance is still 50% for three attacks, but it's 50% of 1-in-6, or one in **twelve** total, to get 5 attacks. With a two ship fleet you have a better chance of getting 7 attacks (1 in 8) than a 4 ship fleet has of getting 5 attacks (1 in 12).

    And, as I said, if it's Falcon's turn it will automatically call one assist if it uses its basic, but since it's Falcon's turn, it has a 0% chance of calling the Falcon again & continuing the cycle.

    So on Falcon's turn, 1 assist max. (0 if using a special ability)
    On another rebel's turn, infinite assists are possible, but your chance for the assist train to keep running is higher the fewer ships you have.

    Since you're a better strategist than the AI, you're going to kill off the enemy ships faster than they kill off yours -- at least on average. So you get them down to only 2 ships more often than they get you down to only 2 ships. And, of course, if they spend more turns with only 2 ships, then they'll have more long, multi-assist chains than you will.

    So when they burst out a multi assist that kills one of your ships out of nowhere, remember:
    1. That happens more often for them because you're more skilled than the AI,

    and
    2. The AI just increased you chance to get a long multi-assist chain on your next non-Falcon rebel attack. So they did you a favor.
  • I'd like to see First Order and Resistance get more than 4 and 3 ships, respectively, first.
    u58t4vkrvnrz.png



  • @Whatelse73

    What you're seeing is that the other squad probably only has 2 rebels out + Hound's tooth or maybe you've just killed one & they have 2 rebels left.

    Falcon has a 50% chance to assist a toon that uses an ability ON ITS OWN TURN. So on Falcon's turn, it calls one assist & that's it.

    But if another rebel goes, the n Falcon has a 50% shot at assisting. But once Falcon goes, Falcon calls a random rebel ally. If you have 3 rebels besides Falcon on the field, there's only a 1-in-3 chance of calling the ship whose turn it actually is, and then there's only a 50% chance of calling the falcon again. That means only a 1-in-6 chance of keeping the cycle going.

    But if your only rebels are Falcon + 1, then when the other ship goes, it has a 50% chance of calling the falcon, which has a 100% chance of calling the original ship whose turn it is. That's 3 attacks. But then you have a 50% chance of calling the falcon again, which will automatically call that same original ship. That's 5 attacks, and that happens one time in 4 that Falcon is part of an active fleet with only 2 rebels - assuming it's the other rebel's turn.

    So in a 2 ship fleet, you chance of 3 attacks is 1-in-2, but 5 attacks is still 1-in-4. But in a 4 ship fleet you chance is still 50% for three attacks, but it's 50% of 1-in-6, or one in **twelve** total, to get 5 attacks. With a two ship fleet you have a better chance of getting 7 attacks (1 in 8) than a 4 ship fleet has of getting 5 attacks (1 in 12).

    And, as I said, if it's Falcon's turn it will automatically call one assist if it uses its basic, but since it's Falcon's turn, it has a 0% chance of calling the Falcon again & continuing the cycle.

    So on Falcon's turn, 1 assist max. (0 if using a special ability)
    On another rebel's turn, infinite assists are possible, but your chance for the assist train to keep running is higher the fewer ships you have.

    Since you're a better strategist than the AI, you're going to kill off the enemy ships faster than they kill off yours -- at least on average. So you get them down to only 2 ships more often than they get you down to only 2 ships. And, of course, if they spend more turns with only 2 ships, then they'll have more long, multi-assist chains than you will.

    So when they burst out a multi assist that kills one of your ships out of nowhere, remember:
    1. That happens more often for them because you're more skilled than the AI,

    and
    2. The AI just increased you chance to get a long multi-assist chain on your next non-Falcon rebel attack. So they did you a favor.

    The AI did me a favor by having the Falcon dodge 8 times in a row after doing all that assisting? Along with that, destroy 4 ships by itself (full of RELIC'D PILOTS) because it was doing me a favor?

    I do not think it means what you think it means...
  • Yes its way to boring ... And Razor Crest is not enough... CG should bring FO and Res Tanks too to get a real use of both fleets etc. And yes a Sith and BH Capital would be Welcome too
  • Instead of a new meta, how about Ship Mods. At least allow for more variance in matchups. Something to add more strategy than a coin flip.

    tenor.gif?itemid=17279833


  • Whatelse73 wrote: »
    I don't mind a little RNG added in. But when RNG is the sole deciding factor, again and again, it should be reconsidered and fixed. Not left to fester like a bald uncle...

    4ml7f6.jpg




  • Nauros wrote: »
    Has anyone tested 7* Raddus or Finalizer in the wild? I have some success against weaker Negos with my 6* Raddus with Res + leftovers fleet, 7* and better fleet could push it to competitive level.

    I run a 7* finalizer. I have more success against Malevolence than Kenobi. but if either is full strength its certainly a challenge. Its interesting to run because its all about stunning with KRU and protecting his ship. If no one resists, I can stun all 3 opponent ships before they move... Its a constant "look over your shoulder" match to see who is going to move next and what you can do about it.

    Handles all the rest pretty well tho... Have never seen a raddus.

    Interestingly, Ive found a real good use for Jedi consular! As a reinforcement he can call KRU AND give him back protection taken by kylo's ship. I think hes been recruited by FO.

    I run KRU, kylo, FOSFTFP, boskk, anakin, consular and , well, the 7th almost never gets called.. but I usually put falcon or ahsoka there

    not great on defense tho :-P
  • YourFace
    28 posts Member
    edited December 2020
    Let’s get back to the original post though because it’s an extremely valid request. At this point, the fleet meta is so stale it feels like you bought a product from a company that quietly went out of business and stopped supporting it.

    I mean, I think ships came out at the very end of 2016 or Jan 2017 so ships is about 4 years old. If Negotiator came out in June 2019 then I’ll just round up and say Nego has been meta for almost 1/2 the time ships has been out.

    That is just plain wrong and players should view this as a clear message from CG that ships are not worth the allocation of regular development resources.

    Don’t even get me started on the new cap ships that have no place in arena (where players need the most variety right now) or the Sith ships that still aren’t viable 2+ years after their release.
    Post edited by YourFace on
Sign In or Register to comment.