Clarifying Recent Dev Statement

Fatal
44 posts Member
"Characters and ships CAN have multiple of the same buff but it won’t display multiple stacks in cases where it won't increase the effect of the buff"

So does this mean that most universal buffs and debuffs can stack? Or is it still a limited list?

IE, crit chance up and crit chance down should stack, right? What about Ability Block?

Replies

  • If I’m reading it right, it means that, in the case of GK’s taunt or Savage unique, although the buffs “will stack” in the code, only one will activate at a time, and all others will be considered nonexistent.
  • You’ll notice it in places like conquest with the Massively Overpowered disk. My sith empire trooper would get an overpowered attack each of his turns despite only have 3 buffs. Each time another sith would use a special, he would stack those buffs and quickly get to 10 buffs.
  • Ultra
    7701 posts Moderator
    I think what its saying is that if you call Shaak Ti to assist, and then again, and again, while a unit still hasn't taken a turn, he will have 4 stacks of offense up, but it will only display one since its not additive and doesn't really matter

    I'm curious if Spy will hit 4x harder on that toon as oppose to how we were previously assuming that the unit has one offense up buff
  • I’m pretty sure Spy does hit that much harder. This is just the first time (or first that I can remember, and I have a good memory for semi-useless video game details) that it’s confirmed that it’s supposed to work that way and officially explained why.
  • Ultra wrote: »
    I think what its saying is that if you call Shaak Ti to assist, and then again, and again, while a unit still hasn't taken a turn, he will have 4 stacks of offense up, but it will only display one since its not additive and doesn't really matter

    I'm curious if Spy will hit 4x harder on that toon as oppose to how we were previously assuming that the unit has one offense up buff
    I feel like that would explain how sometimes with 8 status effects I hit for fifty thousand and with 7 I hit for over 300 thousand
  • Nihion
    3211 posts Member
    The way I see it, only one buff is applied and counted, but there are extras hidden away. I think that only taunt and a few other buffs and debuffs work this way: As opposed to increased stats (like Offense Up) taunt changes the way that you interact with the character. As CG puts it, more of these buffs doesn’t increase the effect of the buff. There is no need for more taunts, so they are not shown and do not activate when this taunt leaves the character, but they exist for the sake of counting buffs.
  • Ultra wrote: »
    I think what its saying is that if you call Shaak Ti to assist, and then again, and again, while a unit still hasn't taken a turn, he will have 4 stacks of offense up, but it will only display one since its not additive and doesn't really matter

    I'm curious if Spy will hit 4x harder on that toon as oppose to how we were previously assuming that the unit has one offense up buff

    That particular one doesn’t work (although I agree with your general premise), since Shaak’s basic specifically says it only gives offense up to allies that didn’t already have it.
  • th3evo
    172 posts Member
    edited June 11
    To me it sounds like we don't actually 'refresh' buff duration unless it's specifically stated in the ability description. Every time you get a buff it creates a new instance of the buff that we don't always see and that doesn't always directly affect the character.

    BB-8 uses Covert Data Transfer every turn: Secret Intel for 3 turns -> Secret Intel (2 turns) + Secret Intel (3 turns) -> Secret Intel (1 turn) + Secret Intel (2 turns) + Secret Intel (3 turns) -> Secret Intel (1 turn) + Secret Intel (2 turns) + Secret Intel (3 turns) -> etc.

    At least that's how I understand it. And a really good question was brought up by Ultra - how does it affect characters/ships whose abilities somehow work with the number of buffs - Geonosian Spy, Asajj Ventress, Sith Assassin, Ahsoka Tano's Jedi Starfighter etc.?
  • Kyno
    29948 posts Moderator
    th3evo wrote: »
    To me it sounds like we don't actually 'refresh' buff duration unless it's specifically stated in the ability description. Every time you get a buff it creates a new instance of the buff that we don't always see and that doesn't always directly affect the character.

    BB-8 uses Covert Data Transfer every turn: Secret Intel for 3 turns -> Secret Intel (2 turns) + Secret Intel (3 turns) -> Secret Intel (1 turn) + Secret Intel (2 turns) + Secret Intel (3 turns) -> Secret Intel (1 turn) + Secret Intel (2 turns) + Secret Intel (3 turns) -> etc.

    At least that's how I understand it. And a really good question was brought up by Ultra - how does it affect characters/ships whose abilities somehow work with the number of buffs - Geonosian Spy, Asajj Ventress, Sith Assassin, Ahsoka Tano's Jedi Starfighter etc.?

    Yes I believe this is correct.
  • Konju
    995 posts Member
    Ultra wrote: »
    I think what its saying is that if you call Shaak Ti to assist, and then again, and again, while a unit still hasn't taken a turn, he will have 4 stacks of offense up, but it will only display one since its not additive and doesn't really matter

    I'm curious if Spy will hit 4x harder on that toon as oppose to how we were previously assuming that the unit has one offense up buff

    Shaak Ti has in her kit that Offense Up only applies to allies who don’t already have it. If this Offense Up is stacking in the code, then that’s not exactly WAI IMO.

    cx5mhnncg9k7.png
  • Ultra
    7701 posts Moderator
    Konju wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    I think what its saying is that if you call Shaak Ti to assist, and then again, and again, while a unit still hasn't taken a turn, he will have 4 stacks of offense up, but it will only display one since its not additive and doesn't really matter

    I'm curious if Spy will hit 4x harder on that toon as oppose to how we were previously assuming that the unit has one offense up buff

    Shaak Ti has in her kit that Offense Up only applies to allies who don’t already have it. If this Offense Up is stacking in the code, then that’s not exactly WAI IMO.

    cx5mhnncg9k7.png

    Yeah Shaak Ti was a bad example to use, but you get my point
  • You’ll notice it in places like conquest with the Massively Overpowered disk. My sith empire trooper would get an overpowered attack each of his turns despite only have 3 buffs. Each time another sith would use a special, he would stack those buffs and quickly get to 10 buffs.

    That may be why Cooling Systems were so 'broken', stacking buffs somehow. The certainly were far more effective that advertised in descriptions .
  • Ultra
    7701 posts Moderator
    You’ll notice it in places like conquest with the Massively Overpowered disk. My sith empire trooper would get an overpowered attack each of his turns despite only have 3 buffs. Each time another sith would use a special, he would stack those buffs and quickly get to 10 buffs.

    That may be why Cooling Systems were so 'broken', stacking buffs somehow. The certainly were far more effective that advertised in descriptions .

    Those data disks would grant a buff for 1 turn, so they would expire and not give an invisible stack

    Things like having Vader and Kylo Ren (Unmasked) in the same team means, that everytime KRU counters and applies tenacity down on the same target before they take a turn, Vader can cull for higher damage
  • th3evo
    172 posts Member
    You’ll notice it in places like conquest with the Massively Overpowered disk. My sith empire trooper would get an overpowered attack each of his turns despite only have 3 buffs. Each time another sith would use a special, he would stack those buffs and quickly get to 10 buffs.

    That may be why Cooling Systems were so 'broken', stacking buffs somehow. The certainly were far more effective that advertised in descriptions .

    Deployable Cooling Systems triggered only when gaining a buff. SET gets a buff every time Sith ally uses a Special Ability. Since the buffs don't 'refresh' but create a 'new' buff every time then it counts towards Massively Overpowered.
    Ultra wrote: »
    You’ll notice it in places like conquest with the Massively Overpowered disk. My sith empire trooper would get an overpowered attack each of his turns despite only have 3 buffs. Each time another sith would use a special, he would stack those buffs and quickly get to 10 buffs.

    That may be why Cooling Systems were so 'broken', stacking buffs somehow. The certainly were far more effective that advertised in descriptions .

    Those data disks would grant a buff for 1 turn, so they would expire and not give an invisible stack

    Things like having Vader and Kylo Ren (Unmasked) in the same team means, that everytime KRU counters and applies tenacity down on the same target before they take a turn, Vader can cull for higher damage

    Deployable Cooling Systems did not grant buffs. If you are talking about Offensive/Defensive Buffs then those do grant buffs for only 1 turn.
    The dev comment only mentions buffs - not debuffs.
  • scuba
    12678 posts Member
    This was the teebo fix.
    They don't stack in that having 4 x offense up doesn't equal 200% offense, however each of instance will be there.
    If you gain offense up for 1 turn and then gain it again for 2 turns and then again for 3 turns
    Each of instance will expire seperately and will essentially have it for 3 turns, however things that count # of buffs or buff expiration will count each in individually.
    Spy way harder than the debuffs you can count because there is probably a ton of tenacity downs.
  • NicWester
    7920 posts Member
    th3evo wrote: »
    To me it sounds like we don't actually 'refresh' buff duration unless it's specifically stated in the ability description. Every time you get a buff it creates a new instance of the buff that we don't always see and that doesn't always directly affect the character.

    BB-8 uses Covert Data Transfer every turn: Secret Intel for 3 turns -> Secret Intel (2 turns) + Secret Intel (3 turns) -> Secret Intel (1 turn) + Secret Intel (2 turns) + Secret Intel (3 turns) -> Secret Intel (1 turn) + Secret Intel (2 turns) + Secret Intel (3 turns) -> etc.

    At least that's how I understand it. And a really good question was brought up by Ultra - how does it affect characters/ships whose abilities somehow work with the number of buffs - Geonosian Spy, Asajj Ventress, Sith Assassin, Ahsoka Tano's Jedi Starfighter etc.?

    The example you put up is correct, but there's a weird quirk that needs to be added--if BB-8 uses his basic attack when he's at SI (3 turns) + SI (2 turns) + SI (1 turn), at the end of the turn he still has 3 stacks of Secret Intel, not 2.

    Never mind, I think I'm overthinking this. I bet the Secret Intelligence buff has a hidden effect that gaining Secret Intelligence refreshes the duration of all SI buffs, like how Translation refreshes all stacks of Translation.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • E3P0
    21 posts Member
    TargetEadu wrote: »
    I’m pretty sure Spy does hit that much harder. This is just the first time (or first that I can remember, and I have a good memory for semi-useless video game details) that it’s confirmed that it’s supposed to work that way and officially explained why.

    We knew that's the way Spy works since the days of the Teebo bug being fixed.
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