LV/Maul [MERGE]

Replies

  • Kyno wrote: »
    Jmk- always uses hello there on cat to start a match- so she can nuke an enemy right out of the gate.

    Why does maul not target Cat with his cooldown reduction on the first turn ?

    It's a good idea, and we have seen targeting moves like that.

    Will it actually make this stick on d?

    probably not, because JMK can just wait an extra turn to use it and still get it off
  • WattoisSnoke
    206 posts Member
    edited October 2021
    Vader straight up needs more damage or to ramp it up way quicker, simple as that, he’s tanky enough
    Post edited by WattoisSnoke on
  • I’d like Lord Vader lead to have the Darth-Vader DoT-returning capability. I’m not entirely sure if it would make a difference, but LV inflicts so many irresistable DoTs that last all of 5 seconds against JMK.
  • Saada
    614 posts Member
    It may not help a huge amount but the dark side characters used with lv need their ai tweaked. Piett doesn't mark lord vader and darth vader doesn't use mm on their first turns, maul doesn't target cat. If all these happened then it would atleast make it harder to counter on defence then what it is atm.
  • Saada wrote: »
    It may not help a huge amount but the dark side characters used with lv need their ai tweaked. Piett doesn't mark lord vader and darth vader doesn't use mm on their first turns, maul doesn't target cat. If all these happened then it would atleast make it harder to counter on defence then what it is atm.

    Don't get me wrong I definitely think the AI needs tweaked on this, Piett should always mark LV so it calls him to assist, he can take the taunt he's beefy enough. DV not using MM is from the EP days, where using AoE first would fill his TM and then he would MM and use all of them, which makes sense on that team but not anymore. His AI should know which leader he has and adjust accordingly. Maul targeting CAT won't change much though because JMK can simply wait a turn to use his CD reduction and she can still get it off. But changing just the AI isn't gonna be enough here, LV needs kit tweaks as well because as I see it, you use his ult at 100% and you get an ability block immediately, then do nothing for 5 turns while you can't build more ult. 5 turns is a long time to do nothing
  • LV's initial damage is so poor because they don't have a system that would add a damage constant on top of an otherwise final value. Now they have to start from very low or otherwise it ramps up to unnaturally high numbers. The current LV damage ramp up style is not very satisfying (the initial low dmg numbers), and they should have noticed and solved this problem early in the design.
    The AI is somewhat understandable. Darth Vader uses AOE before MM so that he could not be slotted in an SLKR team (at the time) for too much profit. Maul plays like a fool to give a view of a lax opponent. This is nothing new, the issue lies with the overall power level of LV.
    A little bit more could be said about the dysfunctional nature of the team. For example, if LV was the only tank (like JML), and Royal Guard hid himself the team's act would look a lot more coherent. Maybe we are still missing a piece of the puzzle because this cannot be the final product, can it?
  • Saada
    614 posts Member
    edited October 2021
    Saada wrote: »
    It may not help a huge amount but the dark side characters used with lv need their ai tweaked. Piett doesn't mark lord vader and darth vader doesn't use mm on their first turns, maul doesn't target cat. If all these happened then it would atleast make it harder to counter on defence then what it is atm.

    Don't get me wrong I definitely think the AI needs tweaked on this, Piett should always mark LV so it calls him to assist, he can take the taunt he's beefy enough. DV not using MM is from the EP days, where using AoE first would fill his TM and then he would MM and use all of them, which makes sense on that team but not anymore. His AI should know which leader he has and adjust accordingly. Maul targeting CAT won't change much though because JMK can simply wait a turn to use his CD reduction and she can still get it off. But changing just the AI isn't gonna be enough here, LV needs kit tweaks as well because as I see it, you use his ult at 100% and you get an ability block immediately, then do nothing for 5 turns while you can't build more ult. 5 turns is a long time to do nothing

    I agree lv kit does need tweaking mainly around his damage and ult. I'm just not a fan of how bad the ai is. Those 3 should be adjusted to fit in line with lv.

    I know it's said it won't matter too much if maul increase cats cooldowns but if vader ability blocks jmk as well, it'll slow down the jmk squad and lv is all about lasting as long as possible. Id like to see the difference this makes before changing lv kit.

    Edit: just read "legend91" post and he's summarised everything pretty well.
  • The thing is his ultimate, besides gaining mastery, is meant to make his move set better whereas Kenobi outright buffs himself with more offence, counters etc and he even reduces his speed which you’re happy for because you want him to stay in high ground for longer. It’s a fine alternate but the gain to his move set is pathetic, the basic hits for a third damage, woohoo 3x trash damage. His first special also hits for true damage, woohoo some more trash damage (I think this move should ramp up and hit really hard but oh well). The second special makes you ability blocked for 1 turn, woohoo, Nihilus does it better with his force drain via cooldown increase. His moves need to do more in ultimate instead of the snoozefest joke additions they do now. Why doesn’t one special increase LV’s stats and another buffs the team whilst the basic does something else unique.

    Vindictive Strike in ult: no idea honestly

    Dark Harbinger in ult: This attack also deals true damage, Buff Immunity and Healing Immunity cannot be cleansed and Lord Vader gains 1% Mastery (stacking) for each stack of Underestimated.

    Unshackled Emotions in ult: Inflict Ability Block for 1 turn which can't be dispelled or resisted, increase target enemy's cooldowns by 2 and Dark Side ally Mastery gain is doubled.

    - helps ramp up both Vader and his team a lot quicker while in ult which, in turn, makes each ult activation afterwards stronger with greater mastery gain. Simply takes it from a slow gain to a fast one.
  • jessica_secura
    9 posts Member
    edited October 2021
    It seems no matter what the comp is either for Lord Vader teams or JMK teams that Maul does not consistently increase CAT's cooldowns. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. On the flip side, JMK always resets CAT's cooldowns to start the fight.

    Is the LV/Maul AI working as intended? Or is something wrong?ttqnqnmzz910.jpg
    Post edited by Kyno on
  • 1- he needs 5 stacks of anguish to activate the cooldown increase, 2 - it doesn't say anything about being unresistable. I suggest you stack potency.
  • Aluxtu wrote: »
    1- he needs 5 stacks of anguish to activate the cooldown increase, 2 - it doesn't say anything about being unresistable. I suggest you stack potency.

    I think hes refering to the fact that Maul doesnt consistently target CAT with the ability when he has 5 stacks. The CD increase is unresistable even though it doesnt say so in the kit (Nute is currently the only one with a resistable CD increase) and the resists are because of the buff immunity.
  • Aluxtu wrote: »
    1- he needs 5 stacks of anguish to activate the cooldown increase, 2 - it doesn't say anything about being unresistable. I suggest you stack potency.
    Each image Maul had 5 stacks of anguish, if its showing 4 thats bc I screenshotted from the video mid ability to show who was being targeted. sithlords already addressed the unresistable aspect of it.
  • Kyno
    32071 posts Moderator
    It seems no matter what the comp is either for Lord Vader teams or JMK teams that Maul does not consistently increase CAT's cooldowns. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. On the flip side, JMK always resets CAT's cooldowns to start the fight.

    Is the LV/Maul AI working as intended? Or is something wrong?ttqnqnmzz910.jpg

    As it stand right now, yes this is WAI. There is no hard coding for him to do that.
  • Still the worst GL to date. Huge investment, and easily countered. Now that kyno is confirming WAI, makes it that much worse. Spend your resources elsewhere unless you have nothing else to do.
  • Kyno
    32071 posts Moderator
    zatchy wrote: »
    Still the worst GL to date. Huge investment, and easily countered. Now that kyno is confirming WAI, makes it that much worse. Spend your resources elsewhere unless you have nothing else to do.

    I am confirming that the AI is not hard coded to target CAT. It's not, and that doesnt seem to be a solution to anyone's problems.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    zatchy wrote: »
    Still the worst GL to date. Huge investment, and easily countered. Now that kyno is confirming WAI, makes it that much worse. Spend your resources elsewhere unless you have nothing else to do.

    I am confirming that the AI is not hard coded to target CAT. It's not, and that doesnt seem to be a solution to anyone's problems.

    Everyone knows it’s not coded that way. But you said WAI. Meaning it’s working as intended….walking that back?
  • Kyno
    32071 posts Moderator
    zatchy wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    zatchy wrote: »
    Still the worst GL to date. Huge investment, and easily countered. Now that kyno is confirming WAI, makes it that much worse. Spend your resources elsewhere unless you have nothing else to do.

    I am confirming that the AI is not hard coded to target CAT. It's not, and that doesnt seem to be a solution to anyone's problems.

    Everyone knows it’s not coded that way. But you said WAI. Meaning it’s working as intended….walking that back?

    Sorry, I misread what they were asking for WAI. Thought the discussion was targeting, not CD increase. Would need more than screen shots to being this up, but I can ask. The CD increase should be always there if Maul has 5 stacks
  • So youtube is blowing up with people beating LV + Maul with R7 and 8 JML, some even without GAS and JKL. Guess R9 JML was the real next meta all along.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    zatchy wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    zatchy wrote: »
    Still the worst GL to date. Huge investment, and easily countered. Now that kyno is confirming WAI, makes it that much worse. Spend your resources elsewhere unless you have nothing else to do.

    I am confirming that the AI is not hard coded to target CAT. It's not, and that doesnt seem to be a solution to anyone's problems.

    Everyone knows it’s not coded that way. But you said WAI. Meaning it’s working as intended….walking that back?

    Sorry, I misread what they were asking for WAI. Thought the discussion was targeting, not CD increase. Would need more than screen shots to being this up, but I can ask. The CD increase should be always there if Maul has 5 stacks

    So the developers do not want maul targeting cat every time? Even though mk targets cat every time?
  • Kyno
    32071 posts Moderator
    Clphenom wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    zatchy wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    zatchy wrote: »
    Still the worst GL to date. Huge investment, and easily countered. Now that kyno is confirming WAI, makes it that much worse. Spend your resources elsewhere unless you have nothing else to do.

    I am confirming that the AI is not hard coded to target CAT. It's not, and that doesnt seem to be a solution to anyone's problems.

    Everyone knows it’s not coded that way. But you said WAI. Meaning it’s working as intended….walking that back?

    Sorry, I misread what they were asking for WAI. Thought the discussion was targeting, not CD increase. Would need more than screen shots to being this up, but I can ask. The CD increase should be always there if Maul has 5 stacks

    So the developers do not want maul targeting cat every time? Even though mk targets cat every time?

    Not that I am aware of.
  • Clphenom wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    zatchy wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    zatchy wrote: »
    Still the worst GL to date. Huge investment, and easily countered. Now that kyno is confirming WAI, makes it that much worse. Spend your resources elsewhere unless you have nothing else to do.

    I am confirming that the AI is not hard coded to target CAT. It's not, and that doesnt seem to be a solution to anyone's problems.

    Everyone knows it’s not coded that way. But you said WAI. Meaning it’s working as intended….walking that back?

    Sorry, I misread what they were asking for WAI. Thought the discussion was targeting, not CD increase. Would need more than screen shots to being this up, but I can ask. The CD increase should be always there if Maul has 5 stacks

    So the developers do not want maul targeting cat every time? Even though mk targets cat every time?

    It would make autoing LV too hard
  • When it works, by God it works:
    h2ohh68zsny4.png
    • Lord Vader opens with his aoe
    • Maul uses his 5 attack once on CAT, once on GK, then Fervent Rush GK (36% charge)
    • LV's next turn is Harbinger to gain around 30% charge (66% charge)
    • Maul's next turn, you can use the 5 attack on CAT x1, GK x1 again, and another Fervent Rush (100% charge)

    This puts buff immunity on GK and removes his taunt completely, allowing you to go after Snips who has the lowest H+P by far to trip the savior early. Darth Vader's second/third turn (I forget which, have only ran this strat twice tonight) is a Culling Blade that kills GK (should have 20+ debuffs) BEFORE JMK has the chance to ult.

    The downside to this is that LV enters ult with only Harbinger off of cooldown - Unshackled still needs 1 more turn.
  • I don’t think Vader winning on offense is the issue.

    Right now you have a mediocre to poor defensive team. A character who has little value in raids.

    So effectively for the steepest requirements for a GL, and 2+ month wait for Maul, you have maybe the worst or 2nd worst GL?

    Basically the investment does not equal the reward. I’m not saying this team shouldn’t lose to JMK, but I’m saying that the poor AI decision making, making it even easier for JMK to win, is dumb.

    Thus if players have a choice as to which GL they want to farm too, I’m saying 100% avoid Lord Vader. Highest resource allocation for a tune that is basically great in TB’s and offense.

    He can’t really under dog teams in GAC. He’s not great in raids. He’s not amazing on defense….

  • Gale_Toral wrote: »
    When it works, by God it works:
    h2ohh68zsny4.png
    • Lord Vader opens with his aoe
    • Maul uses his 5 attack once on CAT, once on GK, then Fervent Rush GK (36% charge)
    • LV's next turn is Harbinger to gain around 30% charge (66% charge)
    • Maul's next turn, you can use the 5 attack on CAT x1, GK x1 again, and another Fervent Rush (100% charge)

    This puts buff immunity on GK and removes his taunt completely, allowing you to go after Snips who has the lowest H+P by far to trip the savior early. Darth Vader's second/third turn (I forget which, have only ran this strat twice tonight) is a Culling Blade that kills GK (should have 20+ debuffs) BEFORE JMK has the chance to ult.

    The downside to this is that LV enters ult with only Harbinger off of cooldown - Unshackled still needs 1 more turn.

    Yeah LV has his moments, but I think the issue is that Kenobi can just turn his brain off and still beat LV easily, whereas Vader needs specific strategies + a little bit of RNG to beat Kenobi before the timer runs out. If anything LV + Maul feels like a slightly better JML team. Hell, swap LVs ultimate for a slightly adjusted JML ult and hed be 10 times better.
  • Yeah LV has his moments, but I think the issue is that Kenobi can just turn his brain off and still beat LV easily, whereas Vader needs specific strategies + a little bit of RNG to beat Kenobi before the timer runs out. If anything LV + Maul feels like a slightly better JML team. Hell, swap LVs ultimate for a slightly adjusted JML ult and hed be 10 times better.

    That would certainly be one improvement. What I would love to see is Ashes of the Republic turning all LV's debuffs into locked versions. Ulting first and popping off a mega Unshackled is amazing until JMK ults and just cleanses everyone.

  • Gale_Toral wrote: »
    Yeah LV has his moments, but I think the issue is that Kenobi can just turn his brain off and still beat LV easily, whereas Vader needs specific strategies + a little bit of RNG to beat Kenobi before the timer runs out. If anything LV + Maul feels like a slightly better JML team. Hell, swap LVs ultimate for a slightly adjusted JML ult and hed be 10 times better.

    That would certainly be one improvement. What I would love to see is Ashes of the Republic turning all LV's debuffs into locked versions. Ulting first and popping off a mega Unshackled is amazing until JMK ults and just cleanses everyone.

    Absolutely. Seeing that sea of dots just disappear hurts your soul
  • SemiGod wrote: »
    @CG_Doja_Fett_MINI are the devs aware of how LV Is heavily underperforming?

    Sadly I think they will give us the SEE-treatment.
  • SemiGod
    2467 posts Member
    edited October 2021
    SemiGod wrote: »
    @CG_Doja_Fett_MINI are the devs aware of how LV Is heavily underperforming?

    Sadly I think they will give us the SEE-treatment.

    It’s 50/50 tbh

    CG made SEE garbage but made SLKR op in their respective times
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