Something needs to be done about matchmaking!

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Engage
176 posts Member
We should not be matched up against guilds that are 60M+ GP more than us!
They have almost 1M average GP more per player than us.
They have 18 GLs. Over half of those were used on their defences. We could not break through their front lines, while they had an easy win taking our side of the map. At the time we only had 1 valid GL at our disposal.

Our active guild gp was 120-130M. In order for them to even match up with us they would have had to have 19 inactive players on their side so they could drop 80M+ GP. This was not the case as they had near full participation from their side! Which means that we were paired against a guild fighting way outside of their active gp tier.

My guild
https://swgoh.gg/g/Sm79K5bCR6mOUXYdzkmimA/

Their guild
https://swgoh.gg/g/e5Az4kmsQdGfiXBLzTOcMw/

Replies

  • MindPlayer
    6 posts Member
    edited March 20
    19urolck27u2.jpg
    So match making doesn't consider how much difference in gl's,at least keep it close my guild flipside has a little over 30 gl's,are opponent ghost of morits has over 61 gl's,explain how this is fair match making,at least make it close, 30 more gl's is not close can cg do better than this we spend are money too,what gives you give us this kinda match up I don't want to play have the time,when cg doesn't try sometimes.30 gl difference not cool!!!


    [CM - Edited for ALL CAPS]
    Post edited by EA_Mako on
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    @Engage Guilds are no longer matched by active GP.
  • Engage
    176 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »
    @Engage Guilds are no longer matched by active GP.

    Then what are they matched on? Them having 60M more points than us is completely unacceptable. Them having 18 GLs while we don't have any viable counters is even worse.
    Why are entire guilds being punished just for trying to play the game? Do the devs have any idea how much this upsets all of us who have to deal with this? There have been walls of complaint posts falling on deaf ears and they just don't care. (Mind you some people will complain when it's only a 10M difference.)
    I'm still waiting for a response back from a dev or representative.
  • Engage wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    @Engage Guilds are no longer matched by active GP.

    Then what are they matched on? Them having 60M more points than us is completely unacceptable. Them having 18 GLs while we don't have any viable counters is even worse.
    Why are entire guilds being punished just for trying to play the game? Do the devs have any idea how much this upsets all of us who have to deal with this? There have been walls of complaint posts falling on deaf ears and they just don't care. (Mind you some people will complain when it's only a 10M difference.)
    I'm still waiting for a response back from a dev or representative.
    And you’ll be waiting forever for that. As far as they are concerned, matchmaking is WAI because they will eventually throw a guild on a poor losing streak a bone and match them with a much weaker guild.

    The devs seem to think that one-sided annihilation that leads to everyone winning a few TWs is enjoyable.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Engage wrote: »
    Waqui wrote: »
    @Engage Guilds are no longer matched by active GP.

    Then what are they matched on?

    If you find out please let me know.

    The old system had its one flaw but at least it was easy to understand.
    Engage wrote: »
    Them having 60M more points than us is completely unacceptable. Them having 18 GLs while we don't have any viable counters is even worse.
    Why are entire guilds being punished just for trying to play the game? Do the devs have any idea how much this upsets all of us who have to deal with this? There have been walls of complaint posts falling on deaf ears and they just don't care. (Mind you some people will complain when it's only a 10M difference.)
    I'm still waiting for a response back from a dev or representative.

    Don't hold your breath.

  • Mostly agreed OP, although I'm in a 300 mil + guild and GP really isn't an issue. The issue is GL count.

    Most of our matchups are completely lopsided in this department. The current guild we're facing has roughly 120 GLs while we have roughly 80. We had no chance from the start.

    I don't believe it would matter if the guild had 100 mil+ GP more than us (which they don't, GP is roughly even). The only thing that matters anymore is how many GLs a guild has at their disposal, which CG isn't taking into account. It's not fun. It's demoralizing.

    TW is very broken.
  • StarSon
    6194 posts Member
    Mostly agreed OP, although I'm in a 300 mil + guild and GP really isn't an issue. The issue is GL count.

    Most of our matchups are completely lopsided in this department. The current guild we're facing has roughly 120 GLs while we have roughly 80. We had no chance from the start.

    I don't believe it would matter if the guild had 100 mil+ GP more than us (which they don't, GP is roughly even). The only thing that matters anymore is how many GLs a guild has at their disposal, which CG isn't taking into account. It's not fun. It's demoralizing.

    TW is very broken.

    To paraphrase the great Kozispoon: Have you tried simply recruiting players with GL's?
  • BadunkAdunk
    87 posts Member
    edited April 1
    No one has left our guild in many moons. In order to recruit players with GLs, we'd have to kick out the few players who still haven't unlocked any. Rather than do that, we've been encouraging them to get with the times.

    Our average GL count per player is 1.75 (just tallied again, we have 87 active GLs. So we're closer to 90 than 80). We have many F2P players in the guild, so I'd say that GL average is pretty close to the standard, if not a wee bit low. We're not going to kick anyone out because everyone has been very dedicated. Short of that, all we can do is keep talking about how we need all the GLs we can get.

    This basically feels like one of two scenarios: CG is not paying attention to what's happening in their game, or they're punishing guilds with F2P members.

    That said I'm (mostly) F2P myself and I have close to 3 GLs and an Executor (playing the ticket game with Kenobi now). I win a lot of GACs and stay at the top of fleet arena though. Not every player is going to do that.

    So our options are to be ruthless ***holes to people we've been with forever, or constantly harangue the guild about unlocking more GLs (we've gone with option 2).

    I also should point out that the lopsided issue works both ways. Sometimes we are the ones with more GLs. That isn't fun either, as we steamroll the opponents. It's not challenging.

    I don't see why CG can't match by GLs, as again, that's the only thing that matters in TW in 2022.
  • StarSon
    6194 posts Member
    No one has left our guild in many moons. In order to recruit players with GLs, we'd have to kick out the few players who still haven't unlocked any. Rather than do that, we've been encouraging them to get with the times.

    Our average GL count per player is 1.75 (just tallied again, we have 87 active GLs. So we're closer to 90 than 80). We have many F2P players in the guild, so I'd say that GL average is pretty close to the standard, if not a wee bit low. We're not going to kick anyone out because everyone has been very dedicated. Short of that, all we can do is keep talking about how we need all the GLs we can get.

    This basically feels like one of two scenarios: CG is not paying attention to what's happening in their game, or they're punishing guilds with F2P members.

    That said I'm (mostly) F2P myself and I have close to 3 GLs and an Executor (playing the ticket game with Kenobi now). I win a lot of GACs and stay at the top of fleet arena though. Not every player is going to do that.

    So our options are to be ruthless ***holes to people we've been with forever, or constantly harangue the guild about unlocking more GLs (we've gone with option 2).

    I also should point out that the lopsided issue works both ways. Sometimes we are the ones with more GLs. That isn't fun either, as we steamroll the opponents. It's not challenging.

    I don't see why CG can't match by GLs, as again, that's the only thing that matters in TW in 2022.

    lhf04rb8h4ov.gif
  • Ah. Guess I missed that one because I had no idea who Kozispoon is.

    I do now.
  • nottenst
    516 posts Member
    edited April 1
    And you’ll be waiting forever for that. As far as they are concerned, matchmaking is WAI because they will eventually throw a guild on a poor losing streak a bone and match them with a much weaker guild.

    The devs seem to think that one-sided annihilation that leads to everyone winning a few TWs is enjoyable.

    And that seems to be just what happened to us in the last match.

    ===========Matches===========
    Match 1 :: ❌ 10042-20298, 224.6M vs ✅ 20298-10042, 275.8M --- the TW that finished today
    Match 2 :: ❌ 11081-15426, 246.7M vs ❌ 16824-22990, 284.0M
    Match 3 :: ✅ 13083-7427, 206.2M vs ❌ 14120-22277, 271.8M
    Match 4 :: ❌ 7465-9171, 223.3M vs ❌ 27335-27399, 266.1M
    Match 5 :: ✅ 14567-8568, 213.8M vs ✅ 22614-11239, 281.4M
    Match 6 :: ❌ 11757-17956, 181.6M vs ❌ 17517-18621, 274.3M
    Match 7 :: ❌ 10023-18535, 194.6M vs ❌ 16383-30058, 282.4M
    Match 8 :: ✅ 14234-10021, 198.3M vs ✅ 21622-19940, 283.9M

    I did this guild comparison just now again after the TW. Our opponents were on a 3 game losing streak and so they got matched up against us, throwing some 50M extra active GP into the TW. It seems hard to believe this is what is intended, but the evidence is right there.
  • CCyrilS
    6669 posts Member
    Mostly agreed OP, although I'm in a 300 mil + guild and GP really isn't an issue. The issue is GL count.

    Most of our matchups are completely lopsided in this department. The current guild we're facing has roughly 120 GLs while we have roughly 80. We had no chance from the start.

    I don't believe it would matter if the guild had 100 mil+ GP more than us (which they don't, GP is roughly even). The only thing that matters anymore is how many GLs a guild has at their disposal, which CG isn't taking into account. It's not fun. It's demoralizing.

    TW is very broken.

    So the other guild has spent 50% more time/resources into getting GLs and they should not have an advantage for that?

    What, then, would be the point of a GL?
  • BadunkAdunk
    87 posts Member
    edited April 1
    From CG:

    "Today’s Update brings a whole host of changes to Territory Wars. The main objective is to provide a better and more competitive experience in Territory Wars."

    It's not competitive. It rarely is competitive. As I said, sometimes we are on the winning end of the discrepancy. Either way, it's not fun.

    Also, your math is off.
  • BadunkAdunk
    87 posts Member
    edited April 1
    What, then, would be the point of a GL?

    GAC, Conquest, TB, CPit, Challenges, Assault Battles, Squad Arena
  • CCyrilS
    6669 posts Member
    What, then, would be the point of a GL?

    GAC, Conquest, TB, CPit, Challenges, Assault Battles, Squad Arena

    Well, rule out GAC becausethe same ppl who want them factored into tw MM think they should be factored into GAC as well.

    So we're left using our best and strongest (most expensive) toons for PvE only? No thanks.
  • I don't think they should be factored into GAC. I love the new system.
  • CCyrilS
    6669 posts Member
    I don't think they should be factored into GAC. I love the new system.

    So you agree a MM system can exist and work without factoring in GLs?
  • BadunkAdunk
    87 posts Member
    edited April 1
    Depends on if you're talking about GAC or TW.

    I think if matchmaking in TW were structured exactly like GAC, then that could actually work. But it's not.
  • CCyrilS
    6669 posts Member
    Depends on if you're talking about GAC or TW.

    I think if matchmaking in TW were structured exactly like GAC, then that could actually work. But it's not.

    Fair enough. The point being GLs don't need to be (and in fact shouldn't be) part of MM.

    I think it's generally agreed that something does need done about TW MM.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Depends on if you're talking about GAC or TW.

    I think if matchmaking in TW were structured exactly like GAC, then that could actually work. But it's not.

    Guild composition/strength is very dynamic with players leaving and joining. If the TW structure was changed to a structure like in GAC it could easily be exploited
  • nottenst
    516 posts Member
    Waqui wrote: »

    Guild composition/strength is very dynamic with players leaving and joining. If the TW structure was changed to a structure like in GAC it could easily be exploited

    And this is the excuse which prevents them from explaining how the matchmaking is done in the first place.
  • Guild composition/strength is very dynamic with players leaving and joining. If the TW structure was changed to a structure like in GAC it could easily be exploited

    That's a good point.

    I guess the only solution is to factor in the GL count then.
  • CCyrilS
    6669 posts Member
    Guild composition/strength is very dynamic with players leaving and joining. If the TW structure was changed to a structure like in GAC it could easily be exploited

    That's a good point.

    I guess the only solution is to factor in the GL count then.

    No.
  • Matchmaking by win / loss does factor in GLs.

    If they have that many more GLs, and know how to use them, they will win and move up in the rankings. Then you will fight guilds with less GLs.
  • ... Yes?

    I don't see what the issue with that is. Right now it's just constant blowouts. If they really wanted to make TW more competitive, they failed.

    I know you think that would negate the point of having GLs, but it wouldn't. TW would come down to which team can use their GLs more efficiently.

    Not to mention (although I already did) their importance in GAC and literally every PvE mode.

    Or we could just stick with the repetitive lopsided blowouts.
  • CCyrilS
    6669 posts Member
    ... Yes?

    I don't see what the issue with that is. Right now it's just constant blowouts. If they really wanted to make TW more competitive, they failed.

    I know you think that would negate the point of having GLs, but it wouldn't. TW would come down to which team can use their GLs more efficiently.

    Not to mention (although I already did) their importance in GAC and literally every PvE mode.

    Or we could just stick with the repetitive lopsided blowouts.

    Did you ever consider that guilds regularly getting blown out just aren't that good?
  • I've already made this point, but the blowouts work both ways. Sometimes we win, sometimes lose, but it's never close.

    That isn't fun nor is it competitive.
  • nottenst
    516 posts Member
    edited April 2
    I've already made this point, but the blowouts work both ways. Sometimes we win, sometimes lose, but it's never close.

    That isn't fun nor is it competitive.

    The previous matchmaking goal appeared to be so that there would be relatively even matches based on active GP. It failed.

    So, they appear to have decided to not even seriously try to have even matches every time. Out of a certain number of matches, 6 for purposes of this example, their goal is to have 2 in which your guild is the overwhelming favorite, 2 in which your guild is an overwhelmed underdog, and then 2 which could go either way. How they do this, they are not revealing. What the actual numbers are, they aren't revealing. It would be a little work, but if you go back through the past 8 TW matches, you might be able to see the pattern.
  • Waqui
    8802 posts Member
    Guild composition/strength is very dynamic with players leaving and joining. If the TW structure was changed to a structure like in GAC it could easily be exploited

    That's a good point.

    I guess the only solution is to factor in the GL count then.

    That's not a solution.
  • So, they appear to have decided to not even seriously try to have even matches every time. Out of a certain number of matches, 6 for purposes of this example, their goal is to have 2 in which your guild is the overwhelming favorite, 2 in which your guild is an overwhelmed underdog, and then 2 which could go either way. How they do this, they are not revealing. What the actual numbers are, they aren't revealing. It would be a little work, but if you go back through the past 8 TW matches, you might be able to see the pattern.

    That's interesting indeed. Thanks for the input. I'll definitely check that out.
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