Hero TM upon revive
Attempt #2. Let's keep the personal attacks/arguments and trolling out.
@BentWookiee mind keeping an eye out? I appreciate it.
Anyways, on topic. So, should heroes have TM upon being revived? Should they have the same TM they had when they died? Should they have 100% or 0% TM instead?
My opinion: I feel like heroes should have 0% TM upon revival and have to fill their TM bar up before going. I mean, they died. If they are brought back, it should be as if they just had their turn. Sure, they are revived with low health. But that's okay, they were killed and BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE. They shouldn't even be around anymore, so if you want them healed up, bring another healer to do it.
Revival is already a bonus for the team. You lost the hero, use an ability, and there they are again. That's already awesome. So I feel like the hero should have to restart their turn and fill their TM. So, what are your thoughts?
@BentWookiee mind keeping an eye out? I appreciate it.
Anyways, on topic. So, should heroes have TM upon being revived? Should they have the same TM they had when they died? Should they have 100% or 0% TM instead?
My opinion: I feel like heroes should have 0% TM upon revival and have to fill their TM bar up before going. I mean, they died. If they are brought back, it should be as if they just had their turn. Sure, they are revived with low health. But that's okay, they were killed and BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE. They shouldn't even be around anymore, so if you want them healed up, bring another healer to do it.
Revival is already a bonus for the team. You lost the hero, use an ability, and there they are again. That's already awesome. So I feel like the hero should have to restart their turn and fill their TM. So, what are your thoughts?
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I agree
Reviving with 0% TM and low health is useless.
But, I also think there should be characters who have revive abilities that will revive with turn meter. Just like some revive with health, having a character revive a fallen unit and giving them 100% turn meter seems within the realm of the game rules.
Revival is not a bonus. You need to take a character with revival (generally should be balanced for less healing or less damage or whatever), and usually you need to spend a turn doing something, and in some cases it may not even work.
The real bonus (IMO) is that some characters can 1-shot any character before you (or the AI) are able to heal or taunt.
Edit: In short, while I don't really care either way, I think it is 100% defensible to maintain the turn meter at the time of death. I think it would also be defensible to reset the turn meter, but in that case I think that revival characters should be re-balanced around that.
It's a matter of utility. If they lost all meter, all any character becomes is a single hit punching bag to draw an attack from another character. The TM lets them be useful still. The part I don't like is the offence/defence up I keep seeing from Daka. It does make sense after watching The Clone Wars though.
Also, to be fair they don't get 100% either, just a boost from wherever they were.
I essentially lose an action because of your rez.
If you still get to perform the action I was preventing by killing you, it makes the death irrelevant.
You can't bring real world logic to a game where getting hit by a teddy bear with a stick hurts more than a beam of concentrated energy that could melt metal. (Teebo v barriss)
If I have to spend an action to rez, such as the heal from Daka/Elder then what would be the point? Might as well give foresight with a low level heal. Daka's 10% passive is the only thing that bends this, but still has a very low proc rate and makes complete sense with the character.
Sounds reasonable. Low health, high TM or high health low TM. Some abilities could be added that revive with 1hp but full TM, gaurunteed move.
I like that. I feel like the game should work like that. The hero died. No buffs, no debuffs.
Well, the combat changes coming will.balance damage and one shotting, so I'm not too worried about that.
And yes, revival is a bonus in my opinion. Old Daka still heals, with a chance of revival. If I kill a hero, an she heals her party AND revives, she still healed. She didn't waste a turn because she still healed the remainder of her party, and I still have to use more turns to kill the revived hero. My opinion of course.
I can see that. A hero revived with no health and no TM is a punching bag to die. But she revives with health, current TM, and a slight boost (or maybe the TM bar just fills as if they hadn't died). That's a lot of utility.
I think if the hero is revived with 0 health, give them a full TM bar. If they are revived with health, I still have to attack them a few turns (depending on who with, though the massive damage is being reduced soon). So I use my TM and they don't lose any. That's why I think they should have 0% (opinion).
Agreed. And it's not like the hero who revived wasted a turn. They still healed their party as well, or Old Daka just revived out of turn thanks to her passive.
I don't think resurrected characters should have 100% TM because coming back to the battle after being defeated is already an advantage. But if they don't even get to act after coming back then they are just punching bag.
With the tuning update coming later this week, maybe we could give resurrected characters certain amount of Protection in addition to HP to help them stay a live a little longer.
Actively rezzing a toon thats been dead several turns is where I have problems with them having TM.
Logic should be allowed everywhere. And so should balance. I'm not saying Daka or E Elder or OP, I just don't agree with the way revival and TM work is all.
Oh, and Bariss should hit harder. Poor girl. Got nerfed so hard...
Daka's heal is one of the weakest in the game. The rez IS the ability. It's even called "Chant of Resurrection". The weak heal is a minor side benefit. It also has a ridiculously long cool down for a heal.
Also, because of that, as widgetgadget pointed out in the above quote, unless you have another healer on your team, a Daka rez is useless if they rez with no TM, precisely because Daka has the two tied into one ability - and wouold then have to take two turns to counter your one, making it actually an even stronger negative action.
I disagree. I think the rez/TM system works fine as is. If you change it as you suggest, Daka's second ability becomes worthless.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
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I like that. Health and protection when being revived. Maybe a new hero will have that type of ability. As it stands though, revived heroes gain health upon revival, keep their TM, and gain some TM (either a boost or its as if they never died and the bar is filled regularly). Health plus + 0% TM just seems right. Or no health and a full TM bar for a gaurunteed move seems fitting.
What about E Elder? He comes with a revive AND a heal w/ revive. He brings someone back, then gets to heal them next go (if they live). Daka could easily be adjusted to revive with MORE health to compensate for the 0% TM, or revive with less health but give the hero 100% TM filled. The fact that her heal is low for the party currently isn't a big deal. Lumi has a heal with a long cooldown, and the heal over time part can now be dispelled.
Of course, bring logic as it relates to game mechanics, as I said.
Look at it from a balance perspective. Daka is probably the best character in the game that has a revive capability. She also has a great stun. And a heal. But you said yourself she is not op, and I don't think most people would say she is either. She is good. I would argue she is balanced well.
So if the best rez character in the game is well balanced, why change the ability?
The problem people seem to have is a when a character gets rezzed, they have a chance of attacking before you kill them again. Well, qgj hits you really hard and calls someone else to attack for 75 percent more damage 100 percent of the time with his ability. No one calls that illogical.
That's why I say don't bring real world logic to it. You get hung up on 'coming back from the dead'. It's just a game mechanic, one that is very well balanced currently.
In my opinion, the game is already fairly balanced as far as resurrection goes. First of all, most resurrecting abilities is only a chance to resurrect, so it cannot be relied upon (no matter how high or low the chance is). Second, there are some resurrecting abilities that don't heal the team, such as with the Ewok Elder (guaranteed res, but that is all it does that turn). And most that can resurrect can be taken out without too much difficulty anyways, so there is a good chance that you wont be able to even use that resurrection ability.
If resurrection characters are dwarfed, people will simply switch them out for something else that you don't want to have to fight. Personally, I like fighting them, because resurrected foes make great fodder for Ventress's area-attack, giving her one more boost without wasting a turn.
Yes, resurrection can be annoying, but so can someone getting lucky and landing several criticals in a row right at the beginning wiping out one or two of your characters before you have a chance to do anything about it.
Sorry - but your argument is not consistent. Lumi's heal is 45% of her health (which is much higher than Daka's health). Lumi, as you noted also allows heal over time for 2 rounds...for a total of 85% of her max health - which again, is higher than Daka's. 85%>30% - especially when the 85% is of a higher health pool. Secondly, you point out that Lumi's HoT can be dispelled. But that takes an action on the part of the opponent. The two are not even close to being comparable.
Having heroes rez with 0% TM and no health (the way Daka's "Chant of Resurrection" ability does now) would make the ability useless. Yes, if you change Daka's ability around, you could make it playable - but that's not what your original point was.
The rez abilities as they exist in the game in it's current state work well. They are balanced and are something to be concerned about. If they were easily overcome, they would be under powered.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
10% passive rez = 100% nobody stayed dead ever
Rng is rng. Hopefully that is not the the point of this topic.