- His dispell lands very often
- his offence down on average lands on 3 out of 5 targets
- Defence up for 4 turns is by no means bad
- his surviavbility is very good
Cons
- his dispell as many others is a bit bugged - eg you attack get def up and no "resisted" pop up yet buff still remains (doesnt happen with taunt, most often is defence up, eva up)
- dispells only one effect - which is really annoying considering that there are usually 2+ buffs on opponent taunt
- worst part is enemy QGJ: you attack - get def up from basic attack and serve as free offence up for entire enemy team.
With that being said i still love him and as a matter of fact my next omegas will go on basic of daka and then on Plo.
His basic gets chance to dispell everything and his defence up gets 25% TM for all allies
And yes he is fantastic back up for QGJ especially considering that latter is either stunned or ability blocked, or his dispel is on cd, or is evaded.
And as for Mace i will take plo over him any day it is not even close.
There is just something amusing about Dooku, Fives and such, criting for 900 damage
I stated above that my PK is gear 8. At this level he dispels nothing 75% of the time. If you almost double his potency he goes from worthless as a taunt breaker to just unreliable. Other toons who currently have potency in the 80-100% range get resisted with some regularity. Not as bad as PK, but again he is getting a huge boost at the next gear level so he can go from being lousy in every way to being mediocre at one thing.
And it's still not guaranteed to break the taunt if it succeeds since nearly every team has some kind of buffing going on in the first round. It's just too many coin flips to depend on. Not to mention that other toons will get increases in tenacity as they gear up also. My understanding of the math is that to be reliable you want taunt breakers to have potency that is equal to the opponent's tenacity plus 100%. (see QGJ at 240%) anything below that is so RNG based that it's not worth counting on.
Lastly there is the cost. He (and tanks in general) are SUPER hard to gear. If he was easy to get to max, and it was raining gear and credits in this game, I'd say go for it. But he is going to be a HUGE black hole for LOTS of gear that is PAINFULLY hard to get. And he does nothing else of note. If his dispel misses once in an arena battle when that was his whole reason for being in there, he will cost you the match. There are just so many other ways of dealing with Han and RG and combinations of them, that sinking huge amounts of resources into one toon that only does one thing poorly is not worth it.
We get so few precious resources in this game, and there are so many traps laid out to take them away from us so we feel tempted to pour in money to catch up. (Anybody spend cantina currency on low level ability mats they now have a thousand of. That's a crooked way of taking advantage of people's ignorance when they start out.) I'm just trying to do you a solid, and keep you from wasting months of farming shards, and gear for a busted toon like I did. But do what you want.
Also, Mace Windu, Ima Gun-Di, and Teebo are all better dispeller than Plo Koon. Asajj Ventress has a mass dispel (even though she is too slow to be of any use). And if you are willing to pay thru the nose Sun Fac dispels with his basic reliably, and taunts, and counters, and heals too I think. Plo Koon is probably the worst dispeller in the game. It's the only thing he does that's useful and he is garbage at it.
I actually really like Asajj - the fact she's slow means that you can target a toon, trigger RG's taunt, and then Asajj can dispell it, then finish off the targeted toon.
Plus she hits very hard, and has passive stun on her basic.
That being said, she's horrible for arena because her AI is dumber than a box of rocks. There's a thread about that over in General Discussion.
RGs tenacity is actually one of the highest if not the highest in the game. I would only be using plo in the same team as qgj to use both their dispels
Last Jedi - thats actually a really good point about ben/st han teams. Without plo, you could easily be stuck attacking st han with basics, and handing out TM to their 3 DPS. I'm pretty sure qui-gon's tenacity is low, too. What level are you and are those teams common?
Malpka thank you for all that. really helpful. When you say maxed plo, have you geared him to g10 or g9? So 50% potency or 90%? Getting through G9 and then giving him the +40% potency is quite a big step now - 50,000 guild currency (150 items) and 100 cuffs, which i can't really be giving to him over others.
JRA just saw your comment as i was writing. You make several good points. I still think it could be fairly reliable - given 2 or 3 chances to dispel RG over the battle, if he does it even once at a crucial time so you can KO a DPS that could, i reckon that could often be the difference. His omega basic makes it slightly more. And I always think these games aren't just coin flips - it will take into account when you have failed to dispel and make it more likely next time. It would screw you sometimes though, I'm sure. Like I said, he would be in a team with QGJ, so that the main focus is dispelling and being able to KO the people you have got under 50%. If you think about it, qgj can dispel 1 in 3 turns, Plo can probably do 1 in 3 too, pretty reliably, and i suspect it could be more frequent than that. If you just use QGJ, Once you've used QGJ's dispel, you can take 1 guy out, but any time you get anyone else under 50%, for the next 3 turns they will survive and keep hurting you. There are ways I can deal with RG right now, and i am always battling him and it's fine. But, and I don't know because I haven't got there, but when you have a max RG with 26K health and protection, as I'm sure people are building on my shard, my worry is that could make it so that you simply have to dispel at least two of his taunts during the battle. Otherwise, he could just keep soaking while they demolish your team. Its difficult to know.
Also as a side point, everyone at the top loves leia i don't know if AI leia is tough to go against at high levels, but his leader ability would get rid of stealth.
But I guess overall I do think you're right and I don't think ill farm, he is probably just too unreliable to take a DPS spot. Especially at 50% potency, and as i said I most likely would never be getting him past that. Also who knows sun fac could be available at some point and he makes RG his ****. Thanks for that solid
Last Jedi - thats actually a really good point about ben/st han teams. Without plo, you could easily be stuck attacking st han with basics, and handing out TM to their 3 DPS. I'm pretty sure qui-gon's tenacity is low, too. What level are you and are those teams common?
I'm level 75. I'm slightly above the curve on my server. I have not yet seen other toons above 79, but any day now. So my server is pretty young, probably started in Feb or March. And on my server, this is rare. So I've only had a chance to fight it a couple times. It took me a minute to figure out how 121 speed Han was going before all my speed toons except the first one! I don't have a large sample size, so I don't know how common it might be to be able to beat down and/or stun Han without being tripped up by that first dodge, but from other people's posts, the Han bomb seems to be have a pretty sensitive trigger. Because of the instant TM boost when he taunts, and the variability of when it will happen, it seems pretty futile to have just one debuffer and hope that he ends up in a position to debuff Han, quickly.
But Ben's leader ability was only fixed recently. And the change to counter attacks going to the taunter is also brand new. So this combo just recently gained a huge buff. It's people who already happened to have these toons that have found this out. I have heard that on other servers this combo could be in half of the top 20 on any given day.
So this is just something I keep in mind and hope to have an answer to, eventually. As well as my own Ben and Han, of course. Assaj might work, but I don't know. I only have a QGJ.
Maybe I'm amped up over nothing. Perhaps a QGJ non lead might be the way to go, then poke Han with a couple of faster toons. If I ever see that team again, I will try some new things.
G9 PK and i dispel taunt everytime.. im sure some RNG was in my favor but nonetheless viable and playable.
the problem with this thread is that we are attempting to box in a toon... clearly there are power level differences but whos to say that a high leveled toon isnt usable? use them if you like them. im in the top 10 of my shard and my team is vastly different that the surrounding meta, mainly because i dont close off potential of a toon until i make my own assumption. so far so good with ole PK.
Also, Mace Windu, Ima Gun-Di, and Teebo are all better dispeller than Plo Koon. Asajj Ventress has a mass dispel (even though she is too slow to be of any use). And if you are willing to pay thru the nose Sun Fac dispels with his basic reliably, and taunts, and counters, and heals too I think. Plo Koon is probably the worst dispeller in the game. It's the only thing he does that's useful and he is garbage at it.
How does Ima gun di dispel? I have him at g8, but all of his abilities are still at 7. Is it on his omega basic or special, or what?
Also, Mace Windu, Ima Gun-Di, and Teebo are all better dispeller than Plo Koon. Asajj Ventress has a mass dispel (even though she is too slow to be of any use). And if you are willing to pay thru the nose Sun Fac dispels with his basic reliably, and taunts, and counters, and heals too I think. Plo Koon is probably the worst dispeller in the game. It's the only thing he does that's useful and he is garbage at it.
How does Ima gun di dispel? I have him at g8, but all of his abilities are still at 7. Is it on his omega basic or special, or what?
He does not dispel. I noticed that after I posted it, but forgot to edit it out.
Last Jedi - thats actually a really good point about ben/st han teams. Without plo, you could easily be stuck attacking st han with basics, and handing out TM to their 3 DPS. I'm pretty sure qui-gon's tenacity is low, too. What level are you and are those teams common?
I'm level 75. I'm slightly above the curve on my server. I have not yet seen other toons above 79, but any day now. So my server is pretty young, probably started in Feb or March. And on my server, this is rare. So I've only had a chance to fight it a couple times. It took me a minute to figure out how 121 speed Han was going before all my speed toons except the first one! I don't have a large sample size, so I don't know how common it might be to be able to beat down and/or stun Han without being tripped up by that first dodge, but from other people's posts, the Han bomb seems to be have a pretty sensitive trigger. Because of the instant TM boost when he taunts, and the variability of when it will happen, it seems pretty futile to have just one debuffer and hope that he ends up in a position to debuff Han, quickly.
But Ben's leader ability was only fixed recently. And the change to counter attacks going to the taunter is also brand new. So this combo just recently gained a huge buff. It's people who already happened to have these toons that have found this out. I have heard that on other servers this combo could be in half of the top 20 on any given day.
So this is just something I keep in mind and hope to have an answer to, eventually. As well as my own Ben and Han, of course. Assaj might work, but I don't know. I only have a QGJ.
Maybe I'm amped up over nothing. Perhaps a QGJ non lead might be the way to go, then poke Han with a couple of faster toons. If I ever see that team again, I will try some new things.
I do think it's nothing to get amped over. I'm not telling everyone in the world how, because F2P guys like me have to keep a bit of mystery, but I've stayed top ten in arena in my server for weeks, and snagged #1 a few times beating teams with both RG and ST Han on the same team with only QGJ as a dispeller. Ben led teams are more common, but beatable. I've also beaten teams with Ben, RG, and Sun Fac. QGJ's dispel has such a short cool down, plus he's super fast in the lead, plus he gives himself tm with his basic. I've rarely needed another taunt buster. I'm slowly getting pushed out as whales are buying the obnoxiously expensive gear, but the taunts are not an issue. I tried Plo Koon, but immediately sank like a stone in rank. I finally figured how to solve the puzzle with other toons who are just better at everything.
Rg plus han is not a problem, in particular.
Han, solo, with Ben L is what is on my radar.
I am thinking dooku stun ben. (Probably dodged and now ur blocked)
GS hit han. If he dodges, now qgj will be next to act on my team, at least. But he is probably blocked.
So maybe dooku hits han, and gs hits han. Setting off han taunt, but now ben goes next and does his mind trick.
So it seems like qgj L, beat on han and hope he doesnt dodge is still viable.... in that all the alternatives arent very good. I like plo bc he dispells on his basic.
Sure theres a chance u can stun ben. And theres a chance rg or daka get pulled on an assist and stun han. But the probability of a win without two debuffers seems pretty low. All else equal.
Most other winnable matches seem to be >80% sureness of winning. Im sure therebare multiple tools to do that to ben and han, im just trying to find the best buy for my situation.
With hans team getting so much TM, even a blind squirrel AI will find some nuts.... like stunning qgj half the time when he isnt blocked.
Like I said, Ben led ST Han couldn't be any worse than Ben led Sun Fac and RG. Still only one dispeller needed, but I'd go with Mace if I wanted a second over PK. At least he can do some measurable damage, and heal himself too. Yoda on the team also makes you immune to debuffs, so no ability blocking/turn meter manipulation from Ben. The ai wastes Bens ability anyhow, and by the time he can use it again you've crippled his team badly enough that it doesn't matter. That is if you have some DPS in the few remaining spots. If you have a coin flip taunt breaker like PK wasting space, then you're probably still looking at all his heavy hitters still standing, and your screwed.
Ben led ST Han couldn't be any worse than Ben led Sun Fac and RG
The way I see it, RG is a welcome addition to the mix.
When you have no one else to hit but Han, there's your problem. RG takes Hans thunder.
Yeah, you have to wait out a full RG taunt, still. But you only have to hit Han once. With a debuff. Because RG is a bro and will take your hits until your debuffer is up to bat. All you need is enough speed and DPS to trigger RG taunt before speed 121.
So what am I missing? I suppose if the other 3 toons are all tanks and/or Leia, maybe.
Ben L, ST Han, 5555, Savage/leia/Sun Fac, RG. Hmmm... that could be good.
Ben led ST Han couldn't be any worse than Ben led Sun Fac and RG
The way I see it, RG is a welcome addition to the mix.
When you have no one else to hit but Han, there's your problem. RG takes Hans thunder.
Yeah, you have to wait out a full RG taunt, still. But you only have to hit Han once. With a debuff. Because RG is a bro and will take your hits until your debuffer is up to bat. All you need is enough speed and DPS to trigger RG taunt before speed 121.
So what am I missing? I suppose if the other 3 toons are all tanks and/or Leia, maybe.
Ben L, ST Han, 5555, Savage/leia/Sun Fac, RG. Hmmm... that could be good.
What you're missing is that ST Han can usually be killed before he even taunts. He has the least health of any taunt tank. I've run with him on my team, and one shot from Rey took all his protection, and put his health in the red. He's nothing to deal with if you have enough DPS. RG makes it a bit harder because he saves Han before I knock him out. If you don't time it right you get bounced between two taunters while their DPS rips you apart. But you can still deal with that with just QGJ if you time it right, and if you have the DPS on your side. PK wastes space for another toon who could kill ST Han in round one. Also you cut your own throat by spending a month plus to farm a toon just to have an unreliable backup taunt buster who is lousy otherwise. And as I said, Yoda makes Ben's ability a wasted round. You know your dispel won't be blocked.
Plo is great if you're struggling against buffed and taunted teams, especially with his omega basic. He's also got pretty solid turn meter boosting ability for clone squads. I stopped using him when RG was nerfed because I don't really care about dispelling taunt anymore. But I used to run Rex/Leia/Plo/RG/Fives (now Aayla and Han instead of RG and Plo).
Also, Mace Windu, Ima Gun-Di, and Teebo are all better dispeller than Plo Koon. Asajj Ventress has a mass dispel (even though she is too slow to be of any use). And if you are willing to pay thru the nose Sun Fac dispels with his basic reliably, and taunts, and counters, and heals too I think. Plo Koon is probably the worst dispeller in the game. It's the only thing he does that's useful and he is garbage at it.
This is just not true. Plo dispels on basic, and with Omega, can dispel all buffs regularly, rather than just 1. Plo is a better choice than Mace and Teebo and QGJ who have long cool downs before they can dispel again. If you're just looking for dispel that is.
Also, Mace Windu, Ima Gun-Di, and Teebo are all better dispeller than Plo Koon. Asajj Ventress has a mass dispel (even though she is too slow to be of any use). And if you are willing to pay thru the nose Sun Fac dispels with his basic reliably, and taunts, and counters, and heals too I think. Plo Koon is probably the worst dispeller in the game. It's the only thing he does that's useful and he is garbage at it.
This is just not true. Plo dispels on basic, and with Omega, can dispel all buffs regularly, rather than just 1. Plo is a better choice than Mace and Teebo and QGJ who have long cool downs before they can dispel again. If you're just looking for dispel that is.
The discussion was about a backup dispeller for arena, which I believe is a waste of space on a 5 man squad. Plo Koon's omega ability is still only a CHANCE to dispel all. It's not a sure thing, and even after a big boost to potency at VERY expensive higher gear levels, his potency is still about a third of QGJ. It can and will be resisted. And with a 2 turn cool down, extremely high speed, and a chance a big turn meter gains on his basic QGJ's dispell is almost always ready to go. Plus it gives you offence up. Plus he has an assist attack that gives +75% offence to whoever he calls. I've never needed another taunt buster beyond him. But for a second one, I'd definitely go for Mace over PK, because he can actually do some damage. That's if I did needed a second. Staying top 5 arena has been pretty easy without one. In fact, I think they are both kind of busted toons, and I wouldnt waste time on either, but I used Mace as an example that there is nothing that PK does that someone else doesn't do better. Better damage, better potency, self healing, all buffs dispelled. Yes it has a cool down since it's not his basic, but the discussion was having 2 dispeller. I'd rather have to sure dispels on toons that have other uses, than a guy with a coin flip dispel on his basic, very little DPS, and a bunch of abilities that others do better.
Also, Mace Windu, Ima Gun-Di, and Teebo are all better dispeller than Plo Koon. Asajj Ventress has a mass dispel (even though she is too slow to be of any use). And if you are willing to pay thru the nose Sun Fac dispels with his basic reliably, and taunts, and counters, and heals too I think. Plo Koon is probably the worst dispeller in the game. It's the only thing he does that's useful and he is garbage at it.
This is just not true. Plo dispels on basic, and with Omega, can dispel all buffs regularly, rather than just 1. Plo is a better choice than Mace and Teebo and QGJ who have long cool downs before they can dispel again. If you're just looking for dispel that is.
The discussion was about a backup dispeller for arena, which I believe is a waste of space on a 5 man squad. Plo Koon's omega ability is still only a CHANCE to dispel all. It's not a sure thing, and even after a big boost to potency at VERY expensive higher gear levels, his potency is still about a third of QGJ. It can and will be resisted. And with a 2 turn cool down, extremely high speed, and a chance a big turn meter gains on his basic QGJ's dispell is almost always ready to go. Plus it gives you offence up. Plus he has an assist attack that gives +75% offence to whoever he calls. I've never needed another taunt buster beyond him. But for a second one, I'd definitely go for Mace over PK, because he can actually do some damage. That's if I did needed a second. Staying top 5 arena has been pretty easy without one. In fact, I think they are both kind of busted toons, and I wouldnt waste time on either, but I used Mace as an example that there is nothing that PK does that someone else doesn't do better. Better damage, better potency, self healing, all buffs dispelled. Yes it has a cool down since it's not his basic, but the discussion was having 2 dispeller. I'd rather have to sure dispels on toons that have other uses, than a guy with a coin flip dispel on his basic, very little DPS, and a bunch of abilities that others do better.
Plo is underrated. He has much more survivability than QGJ. If you're looking for someone who can dispel frequently, and stay alive, he's your man. Especially if you use clones. QGJ is a stud, no doubt, but he's also fragile.
Also, Mace Windu, Ima Gun-Di, and Teebo are all better dispeller than Plo Koon. Asajj Ventress has a mass dispel (even though she is too slow to be of any use). And if you are willing to pay thru the nose Sun Fac dispels with his basic reliably, and taunts, and counters, and heals too I think. Plo Koon is probably the worst dispeller in the game. It's the only thing he does that's useful and he is garbage at it.
This is just not true. Plo dispels on basic, and with Omega, can dispel all buffs regularly, rather than just 1. Plo is a better choice than Mace and Teebo and QGJ who have long cool downs before they can dispel again. If you're just looking for dispel that is.
The discussion was about a backup dispeller for arena, which I believe is a waste of space on a 5 man squad. Plo Koon's omega ability is still only a CHANCE to dispel all. It's not a sure thing, and even after a big boost to potency at VERY expensive higher gear levels, his potency is still about a third of QGJ. It can and will be resisted. And with a 2 turn cool down, extremely high speed, and a chance a big turn meter gains on his basic QGJ's dispell is almost always ready to go. Plus it gives you offence up. Plus he has an assist attack that gives +75% offence to whoever he calls. I've never needed another taunt buster beyond him. But for a second one, I'd definitely go for Mace over PK, because he can actually do some damage. That's if I did needed a second. Staying top 5 arena has been pretty easy without one. In fact, I think they are both kind of busted toons, and I wouldnt waste time on either, but I used Mace as an example that there is nothing that PK does that someone else doesn't do better. Better damage, better potency, self healing, all buffs dispelled. Yes it has a cool down since it's not his basic, but the discussion was having 2 dispeller. I'd rather have to sure dispels on toons that have other uses, than a guy with a coin flip dispel on his basic, very little DPS, and a bunch of abilities that others do better.
Plo is underrated. He has much more survivability than QGJ. If you're looking for someone who can dispel frequently, and stay alive, he's your man. Especially if you use clones. QGJ is a stud, no doubt, but he's also fragile.
Survivability has never been an issue since I always run some kind of taunt tank to protect him, and I know how to work the ai so they waste their dispel early. And I can see PK being useful in a clone team, but that's really a P2P team since I'll never get a Rex. The original question I believe was about F2P options. Also I tapped on the link you provided and the team didn't have Plo Koon in it. LOL
If I had a max Leia, and Rex, and Aayla, and some other money toons then I wouldn't be worrying about PK's damage. As it is F2P guys have to get the most bang for their buck with every toon they bring, and without paying hundreds for a Rex, that is not Plo Koon.
JRA. Han is a lowly speed 120s. This is the only reason he is easy to kill fast. But you have to target him first so his taunt is not as effective.
With ben L, he gains 25% turn meter on a dodge. So you beat on han, but he has a high chance of dodging one of your first two or three attacks...That skyrockets him to next. His taunt puts old ben before any of your toons act. So now u have a han taunt with good health left, your team is debuffed and blocked, and evertime youbare forced to hit him, his team gets tm. So his lumi is johnny on the spot with her heal, and he can potentially receive the primary heal and the two followup heals, since your team is debuffed, he has high dodge, and his turn meter ticks on every weak hit and each dodge. And everyr turn he also has a chance to passively reduce your tm. You can't stun or block any of his other team, and stunning Han after he taunted is useless. He still gives his team TM on every attack you are forced to make; he can still dodge, even, which gives only Han TM, but this gets him closer to his next heal and/or TM reduction chance against your team.
You wonder why han needs a 3 turn taunt when he isndead long before that? Well in this case he can actually pull off a 3 turn taunt. And live. And your entire team in the dirt. It is quite possible. Han has low health for a tank, but the timing of Ben's special and the speed of his team's heals make this possible. If you find it easy to take out enemy DPS without triggering RG, now try to take out Han without triggering a heal. When you have no choice to select different targets or even different attacks, because you're blocked and/or with offense down. Lumi doesn't auto-heal like RG, but she gets her turn all too quickly while your are giving his team TM. And low health for a tank is not really low health. It all depends on how fast does Han get his dodge and pull off his taunt, and does your debuffer get blocked by Ben. This might be the new RNG defense. Once Han gets off his taunt, all decisions are taken out of your hands. All you can do is go along for the ride.
They fixed bens lead just recently. They changed counterattack to hitnthe taunter just recently. This buffs ben plus han combo. Ifbhan dodges the first attack and you dont have two debuffers (or one reliable debuffer that debuffs on his basic), i think you will lose.
Being forced to hit a healthier-than-expected Han with pool noodles while his team is unloading their specials on you at a 2 to 1 rate is an eye opener. If you are not familiar with the new Han Bomb, you might be impressed.
I don't know how reliable Plo is at dispel, but I hear only good things from those who have him at gear 9, so far.
JRA. Han is a lowly speed 120s. This is the only reason he is easy to kill fast. But you have to target him first so his taunt is not as effective.
With ben L, he gains 25% turn meter on a dodge. So you beat on han, but he has a high chance of dodging one of your first two or three attacks...That skyrockets him to next. His taunt puts old ben before any of your toons act. So now u have a han taunt with good health left, your team is debuffed and blocked, and evertime youbare forced to hit him, his team gets tm. So his lumi is johnny on the spot with her heal, and he can potentially receive the primary heal and the two followup heals, since your team is debuffed, he has high dodge, and his turn meter ticks on every weak hit and each dodge. And everyr turn he also has a chance to passively reduce your tm. You can't stun or block any of his other team, and stunning Han after he taunted is useless. He still gives his team TM on every attack you are forced to make; he can still dodge, even, which gives only Han TM, but this gets him closer to his next heal and/or TM reduction chance against your team.
You wonder why han needs a 3 turn taunt when he isndead long before that? Well in this case he can actually pull off a 3 turn taunt. And live. And your entire team in the dirt. It is quite possible. Han has low health for a tank, but the timing of Ben's special and the speed of his team's heals make this possible. If you find it easy to take out enemy DPS without triggering RG, now try to take out Han without triggering a heal. When you have no choice to select different targets or even different attacks, because you're blocked and/or with offense down. Lumi doesn't auto-heal like RG, but she gets her turn all too quickly while your are giving his team TM. And low health for a tank is not really low health. It all depends on how fast does Han get his dodge and pull off his taunt, and does your debuffer get blocked by Ben. This might be the new RNG defense. Once Han gets off his taunt, all decisions are taken out of your hands. All you can do is go along for the ride.
They fixed bens lead just recently. They changed counterattack to hitnthe taunter just recently. This buffs ben plus han combo. Ifbhan dodges the first attack and you dont have two debuffers (or one reliable debuffer that debuffs on his basic), i think you will lose.
Being forced to hit a healthier-than-expected Han with pool noodles while his team is unloading their specials on you at a 2 to 1 rate is an eye opener. If you are not familiar with the new Han Bomb, you might be impressed.
I don't know how reliable Plo is at dispel, but I hear only good things from those who have him at gear 9, so far.
Well I'm sitting on #1 in arena right now with my one dispeller, and doing just fine. Nobody up here uses healers other than an occasional Daka, so I'm not worried about a long lived Han. Even if they did his low health for a tank is NOT still high overall. It's glass cannon level. My Geonosian Soldier has over 2000 more health and protection than my Han. And I have plenty of experience fighting exactly the combos you are describing. Almost everyone on my server uses dodge leaders (Dooku or Ben) and a taunter (RG, Han, Sun Fac). They are super easy to work around as long as you have toons with lots of bang for your buck. Plo Koon isn't one of them. He's swinging a pool noodle as you describe it. If I get tired of fighting for a top spot, and want to drop 50 spots tonight I'll put him back in.
But pretend for a minute that someone else out there doesn't have as good an offensive team as you.
And they want to add a new toon to give them the OFFENSIVE ability to beat certain teams. Like this particular team. And not with a 50/50 chance. With a 80% chance of winning when it's sniping time.
And they have other defensive teams for arena. And they don't plan to use Plo Koon on all of their teams.
But pretend for a minute that someone else out there doesn't have as good an offensive team as you.
And they want to add a new toon to give them the OFFENSIVE ability to beat certain teams. Like this particular team. And not with a 50/50 chance. With a 80% chance of winning when it's sniping time.
And they have other defensive teams for arena. And they don't plan to use Plo Koon on all of their teams.
If you want an offensive team then the first player to cut is Plo Koon. He is a defensive tank that is mediocre on defense, and no good at attacking. Run with a taunt tank, QGJ, a buffer/stunner/support toon, a fast DPS toon, and another fast DPS toon. Nearly anybody is better than him. I'm sure people who are gearing him up now, and fighting players who are a lower gear level say he's working. Especially if the paid for a clone team. Once gear 9/10 toons are common you'll be sorry you wasted so much effort on him. I really regret wasting my time on him. He just doesn't do anything well. It's not worth the space for an unnecessary backup dispeller.
Just take a look at the top teams. You'll notice a lot of repeats. Daka is great. She is fast, she heals, resurrects (some times automatically), stuns (some times 2 at a time), and has high potency. Dooku is good. He is fast, he gives evasion and offence up if he leads, counters, stuns, ability blocks, gives himself turn meter. Geo Soldier is good. He is fast, he hits like a truck, he self buffs, he gets big turn meter on a crit, he's cheap to gear, and easy farm. Fives is good. He has an assist attack, he counters, he debuffs on his basic, he has huge health, gets extra attacks on his basic. These are just a few of the common meta toons, but they keep popping up because they do 4-5 things very well that have proven to be very effective.
Nothing Plo Koon does is very useful. Offence down and dispelling would be except that his potency is low, and the very expensive boost to 90% is still very low comparatively (it needs to be doubled). Defense up does nearly nothing except waste his turn until omega unless you paid for Rex. The buff doesn't prevent enough damage to really matter. He is slow, and doesn't do much damage, and doesn't have huge health. He is just blah at everything. There are toons I dread seeing in arena, and there are toons I love to see because I can auto battle and still win. PK is the second kind.
There are a lot more toons and teams that are useful now since the update. A few are a bit more valuable than the rest, but a lot of toons are useful especially when player controlled. But there are still some who've been left out, and are in bad need of being reworked. PK is number 3 on my list of busted toons that need to be fixed. Bump his potency up into the 150s, give him a generous health increase or damage increase (not both. Don't want to get greedy), and make his turn meter boost affect Jedi the same as it does clones from the lowest level, and he might be worth a look. Until then, there are at least 10 toons I'd farm out of cantina before I'd even look at him. F2P guys have to look out for each other since going down a wrong path can take weeks or months to recover from. I wish I had known what I know now before I spent over a month on stupid Plo Koon.
I'm amazed people are spending this much time analyzing plo koon's abilities and viability, he's only one step up above ugnaught in my opinion.
Somebody asked about using him, I have one that has been every bit as useless as the Ugnaut, so I was trying to be helpful so nobody else wastes time on him until they balance him. I've analyzed him to death because I farmed him to 7*, and didn't want to believe I'd wasted that much time. But nobody believes me.
I respect your points about plo, and thank you for commenting because i was always looking for someone who had levelled him up and had experience with him to comment and tell me what he's like. But what lastjedi said about teams with ben lead, ST han, 3 DPS seems to me to be true. If Han dodges one of your first attacks you are definitely in trouble from being ability blocked, and their DPS tearing through you. But if you can get rid of his taunt, you have won.
None of us are suggesting we put plo koon in our starting arena team, and certainly not that we leave him in for defense. As you said that is a pretty surefire way to drop 50 spots overnight. We're considering if his utility could be a good counter to certain teams that we would have to beat to stay at the top.
Replies
seems legit
- His dispell lands very often
- his offence down on average lands on 3 out of 5 targets
- Defence up for 4 turns is by no means bad
- his surviavbility is very good
Cons
- his dispell as many others is a bit bugged - eg you attack get def up and no "resisted" pop up yet buff still remains (doesnt happen with taunt, most often is defence up, eva up)
- dispells only one effect - which is really annoying considering that there are usually 2+ buffs on opponent taunt
- worst part is enemy QGJ: you attack - get def up from basic attack and serve as free offence up for entire enemy team.
With that being said i still love him and as a matter of fact my next omegas will go on basic of daka and then on Plo.
His basic gets chance to dispell everything and his defence up gets 25% TM for all allies
And yes he is fantastic back up for QGJ especially considering that latter is either stunned or ability blocked, or his dispel is on cd, or is evaded.
And as for Mace i will take plo over him any day it is not even close.
There is just something amusing about Dooku, Fives and such, criting for 900 damage
And it's still not guaranteed to break the taunt if it succeeds since nearly every team has some kind of buffing going on in the first round. It's just too many coin flips to depend on. Not to mention that other toons will get increases in tenacity as they gear up also. My understanding of the math is that to be reliable you want taunt breakers to have potency that is equal to the opponent's tenacity plus 100%. (see QGJ at 240%) anything below that is so RNG based that it's not worth counting on.
Lastly there is the cost. He (and tanks in general) are SUPER hard to gear. If he was easy to get to max, and it was raining gear and credits in this game, I'd say go for it. But he is going to be a HUGE black hole for LOTS of gear that is PAINFULLY hard to get. And he does nothing else of note. If his dispel misses once in an arena battle when that was his whole reason for being in there, he will cost you the match. There are just so many other ways of dealing with Han and RG and combinations of them, that sinking huge amounts of resources into one toon that only does one thing poorly is not worth it.
We get so few precious resources in this game, and there are so many traps laid out to take them away from us so we feel tempted to pour in money to catch up. (Anybody spend cantina currency on low level ability mats they now have a thousand of. That's a crooked way of taking advantage of people's ignorance when they start out.) I'm just trying to do you a solid, and keep you from wasting months of farming shards, and gear for a busted toon like I did. But do what you want.
I actually really like Asajj - the fact she's slow means that you can target a toon, trigger RG's taunt, and then Asajj can dispell it, then finish off the targeted toon.
Plus she hits very hard, and has passive stun on her basic.
That being said, she's horrible for arena because her AI is dumber than a box of rocks. There's a thread about that over in General Discussion.
Last Jedi - thats actually a really good point about ben/st han teams. Without plo, you could easily be stuck attacking st han with basics, and handing out TM to their 3 DPS. I'm pretty sure qui-gon's tenacity is low, too. What level are you and are those teams common?
Malpka thank you for all that. really helpful. When you say maxed plo, have you geared him to g10 or g9? So 50% potency or 90%? Getting through G9 and then giving him the +40% potency is quite a big step now - 50,000 guild currency (150 items) and 100 cuffs, which i can't really be giving to him over others.
JRA just saw your comment as i was writing. You make several good points. I still think it could be fairly reliable - given 2 or 3 chances to dispel RG over the battle, if he does it even once at a crucial time so you can KO a DPS that could, i reckon that could often be the difference. His omega basic makes it slightly more. And I always think these games aren't just coin flips - it will take into account when you have failed to dispel and make it more likely next time. It would screw you sometimes though, I'm sure. Like I said, he would be in a team with QGJ, so that the main focus is dispelling and being able to KO the people you have got under 50%. If you think about it, qgj can dispel 1 in 3 turns, Plo can probably do 1 in 3 too, pretty reliably, and i suspect it could be more frequent than that. If you just use QGJ, Once you've used QGJ's dispel, you can take 1 guy out, but any time you get anyone else under 50%, for the next 3 turns they will survive and keep hurting you. There are ways I can deal with RG right now, and i am always battling him and it's fine. But, and I don't know because I haven't got there, but when you have a max RG with 26K health and protection, as I'm sure people are building on my shard, my worry is that could make it so that you simply have to dispel at least two of his taunts during the battle. Otherwise, he could just keep soaking while they demolish your team. Its difficult to know.
Also as a side point, everyone at the top loves leia i don't know if AI leia is tough to go against at high levels, but his leader ability would get rid of stealth.
But I guess overall I do think you're right and I don't think ill farm, he is probably just too unreliable to take a DPS spot. Especially at 50% potency, and as i said I most likely would never be getting him past that. Also who knows sun fac could be available at some point and he makes RG his ****. Thanks for that solid
But Ben's leader ability was only fixed recently. And the change to counter attacks going to the taunter is also brand new. So this combo just recently gained a huge buff. It's people who already happened to have these toons that have found this out. I have heard that on other servers this combo could be in half of the top 20 on any given day.
So this is just something I keep in mind and hope to have an answer to, eventually. As well as my own Ben and Han, of course.
Maybe I'm amped up over nothing. Perhaps a QGJ non lead might be the way to go, then poke Han with a couple of faster toons. If I ever see that team again, I will try some new things.
the problem with this thread is that we are attempting to box in a toon... clearly there are power level differences but whos to say that a high leveled toon isnt usable? use them if you like them. im in the top 10 of my shard and my team is vastly different that the surrounding meta, mainly because i dont close off potential of a toon until i make my own assumption. so far so good with ole PK.
How does Ima gun di dispel? I have him at g8, but all of his abilities are still at 7. Is it on his omega basic or special, or what?
I do think it's nothing to get amped over. I'm not telling everyone in the world how, because F2P guys like me have to keep a bit of mystery, but I've stayed top ten in arena in my server for weeks, and snagged #1 a few times beating teams with both RG and ST Han on the same team with only QGJ as a dispeller. Ben led teams are more common, but beatable. I've also beaten teams with Ben, RG, and Sun Fac. QGJ's dispel has such a short cool down, plus he's super fast in the lead, plus he gives himself tm with his basic. I've rarely needed another taunt buster. I'm slowly getting pushed out as whales are buying the obnoxiously expensive gear, but the taunts are not an issue. I tried Plo Koon, but immediately sank like a stone in rank. I finally figured how to solve the puzzle with other toons who are just better at everything.
Han, solo, with Ben L is what is on my radar.
I am thinking dooku stun ben. (Probably dodged and now ur blocked)
GS hit han. If he dodges, now qgj will be next to act on my team, at least. But he is probably blocked.
So maybe dooku hits han, and gs hits han. Setting off han taunt, but now ben goes next and does his mind trick.
So it seems like qgj L, beat on han and hope he doesnt dodge is still viable.... in that all the alternatives arent very good. I like plo bc he dispells on his basic.
Sure theres a chance u can stun ben. And theres a chance rg or daka get pulled on an assist and stun han. But the probability of a win without two debuffers seems pretty low. All else equal.
Most other winnable matches seem to be >80% sureness of winning. Im sure therebare multiple tools to do that to ben and han, im just trying to find the best buy for my situation.
With hans team getting so much TM, even a blind squirrel AI will find some nuts.... like stunning qgj half the time when he isnt blocked.
When you have no one else to hit but Han, there's your problem. RG takes Hans thunder.
Yeah, you have to wait out a full RG taunt, still. But you only have to hit Han once. With a debuff. Because RG is a bro and will take your hits until your debuffer is up to bat. All you need is enough speed and DPS to trigger RG taunt before speed 121.
So what am I missing? I suppose if the other 3 toons are all tanks and/or Leia, maybe.
Ben L, ST Han, 5555, Savage/leia/Sun Fac, RG. Hmmm... that could be good.
This is just not true. Plo dispels on basic, and with Omega, can dispel all buffs regularly, rather than just 1. Plo is a better choice than Mace and Teebo and QGJ who have long cool downs before they can dispel again. If you're just looking for dispel that is.
The discussion was about a backup dispeller for arena, which I believe is a waste of space on a 5 man squad. Plo Koon's omega ability is still only a CHANCE to dispel all. It's not a sure thing, and even after a big boost to potency at VERY expensive higher gear levels, his potency is still about a third of QGJ. It can and will be resisted. And with a 2 turn cool down, extremely high speed, and a chance a big turn meter gains on his basic QGJ's dispell is almost always ready to go. Plus it gives you offence up. Plus he has an assist attack that gives +75% offence to whoever he calls. I've never needed another taunt buster beyond him. But for a second one, I'd definitely go for Mace over PK, because he can actually do some damage. That's if I did needed a second. Staying top 5 arena has been pretty easy without one. In fact, I think they are both kind of busted toons, and I wouldnt waste time on either, but I used Mace as an example that there is nothing that PK does that someone else doesn't do better. Better damage, better potency, self healing, all buffs dispelled. Yes it has a cool down since it's not his basic, but the discussion was having 2 dispeller. I'd rather have to sure dispels on toons that have other uses, than a guy with a coin flip dispel on his basic, very little DPS, and a bunch of abilities that others do better.
I'm top arena now, and was with Plo and before Plo. https://swgoh.gg/u/predian/
Plo is underrated. He has much more survivability than QGJ. If you're looking for someone who can dispel frequently, and stay alive, he's your man. Especially if you use clones. QGJ is a stud, no doubt, but he's also fragile.
Survivability has never been an issue since I always run some kind of taunt tank to protect him, and I know how to work the ai so they waste their dispel early. And I can see PK being useful in a clone team, but that's really a P2P team since I'll never get a Rex. The original question I believe was about F2P options. Also I tapped on the link you provided and the team didn't have Plo Koon in it. LOL
If I had a max Leia, and Rex, and Aayla, and some other money toons then I wouldn't be worrying about PK's damage. As it is F2P guys have to get the most bang for their buck with every toon they bring, and without paying hundreds for a Rex, that is not Plo Koon.
if i run into dual tank team (STHan and RG) i will put him in. but i just made the conversion to:
Rex, 5s, Rey, Leia, Aayla
With ben L, he gains 25% turn meter on a dodge. So you beat on han, but he has a high chance of dodging one of your first two or three attacks...That skyrockets him to next. His taunt puts old ben before any of your toons act. So now u have a han taunt with good health left, your team is debuffed and blocked, and evertime youbare forced to hit him, his team gets tm. So his lumi is johnny on the spot with her heal, and he can potentially receive the primary heal and the two followup heals, since your team is debuffed, he has high dodge, and his turn meter ticks on every weak hit and each dodge. And everyr turn he also has a chance to passively reduce your tm. You can't stun or block any of his other team, and stunning Han after he taunted is useless. He still gives his team TM on every attack you are forced to make; he can still dodge, even, which gives only Han TM, but this gets him closer to his next heal and/or TM reduction chance against your team.
You wonder why han needs a 3 turn taunt when he isndead long before that? Well in this case he can actually pull off a 3 turn taunt. And live. And your entire team in the dirt. It is quite possible. Han has low health for a tank, but the timing of Ben's special and the speed of his team's heals make this possible. If you find it easy to take out enemy DPS without triggering RG, now try to take out Han without triggering a heal. When you have no choice to select different targets or even different attacks, because you're blocked and/or with offense down. Lumi doesn't auto-heal like RG, but she gets her turn all too quickly while your are giving his team TM. And low health for a tank is not really low health. It all depends on how fast does Han get his dodge and pull off his taunt, and does your debuffer get blocked by Ben. This might be the new RNG defense. Once Han gets off his taunt, all decisions are taken out of your hands. All you can do is go along for the ride.
They fixed bens lead just recently. They changed counterattack to hitnthe taunter just recently. This buffs ben plus han combo. Ifbhan dodges the first attack and you dont have two debuffers (or one reliable debuffer that debuffs on his basic), i think you will lose.
Being forced to hit a healthier-than-expected Han with pool noodles while his team is unloading their specials on you at a 2 to 1 rate is an eye opener. If you are not familiar with the new Han Bomb, you might be impressed.
I don't know how reliable Plo is at dispel, but I hear only good things from those who have him at gear 9, so far.
Well I'm sitting on #1 in arena right now with my one dispeller, and doing just fine. Nobody up here uses healers other than an occasional Daka, so I'm not worried about a long lived Han. Even if they did his low health for a tank is NOT still high overall. It's glass cannon level. My Geonosian Soldier has over 2000 more health and protection than my Han. And I have plenty of experience fighting exactly the combos you are describing. Almost everyone on my server uses dodge leaders (Dooku or Ben) and a taunter (RG, Han, Sun Fac). They are super easy to work around as long as you have toons with lots of bang for your buck. Plo Koon isn't one of them. He's swinging a pool noodle as you describe it. If I get tired of fighting for a top spot, and want to drop 50 spots tonight I'll put him back in.
But pretend for a minute that someone else out there doesn't have as good an offensive team as you.
And they want to add a new toon to give them the OFFENSIVE ability to beat certain teams. Like this particular team. And not with a 50/50 chance. With a 80% chance of winning when it's sniping time.
And they have other defensive teams for arena. And they don't plan to use Plo Koon on all of their teams.
Just take a look at the top teams. You'll notice a lot of repeats. Daka is great. She is fast, she heals, resurrects (some times automatically), stuns (some times 2 at a time), and has high potency. Dooku is good. He is fast, he gives evasion and offence up if he leads, counters, stuns, ability blocks, gives himself turn meter. Geo Soldier is good. He is fast, he hits like a truck, he self buffs, he gets big turn meter on a crit, he's cheap to gear, and easy farm. Fives is good. He has an assist attack, he counters, he debuffs on his basic, he has huge health, gets extra attacks on his basic. These are just a few of the common meta toons, but they keep popping up because they do 4-5 things very well that have proven to be very effective.
Nothing Plo Koon does is very useful. Offence down and dispelling would be except that his potency is low, and the very expensive boost to 90% is still very low comparatively (it needs to be doubled). Defense up does nearly nothing except waste his turn until omega unless you paid for Rex. The buff doesn't prevent enough damage to really matter. He is slow, and doesn't do much damage, and doesn't have huge health. He is just blah at everything. There are toons I dread seeing in arena, and there are toons I love to see because I can auto battle and still win. PK is the second kind.
There are a lot more toons and teams that are useful now since the update. A few are a bit more valuable than the rest, but a lot of toons are useful especially when player controlled. But there are still some who've been left out, and are in bad need of being reworked. PK is number 3 on my list of busted toons that need to be fixed. Bump his potency up into the 150s, give him a generous health increase or damage increase (not both. Don't want to get greedy), and make his turn meter boost affect Jedi the same as it does clones from the lowest level, and he might be worth a look. Until then, there are at least 10 toons I'd farm out of cantina before I'd even look at him. F2P guys have to look out for each other since going down a wrong path can take weeks or months to recover from. I wish I had known what I know now before I spent over a month on stupid Plo Koon.
Somebody asked about using him, I have one that has been every bit as useless as the Ugnaut, so I was trying to be helpful so nobody else wastes time on him until they balance him. I've analyzed him to death because I farmed him to 7*, and didn't want to believe I'd wasted that much time. But nobody believes me.
None of us are suggesting we put plo koon in our starting arena team, and certainly not that we leave him in for defense. As you said that is a pretty surefire way to drop 50 spots overnight. We're considering if his utility could be a good counter to certain teams that we would have to beat to stay at the top.