I applaud the effort, but you know he stopped reading once he saw you were using full words and proper sentences. It's too hard for millennials to understand
You don't have to make things personal. I am not a millennial, I am almost 40.
It's not about P2P or FTP. It's about one thing. You have achieved Elite status in this game, it doesn't matter how, some FTP players are top 5 arena teams too. But once you become elite, things are different. You are complaining about how GW is too hard for the reward.
You are currently at the End Game stage of this game. Until they extend that, it's just where you are. GW is for people to get credits to upgrade toons. It's economics. If they flood the game with a ton of credits, then it will be really really easy for everyone to max out a team for the arena, meta or not that can easily contend with your team. So now everyone can quickly catch you while you just upgrade more of your depth.
It's about balance. You want them to just print more money. Well, that isn't always the answer. You are an elite team so you have to deal with the fact that all of the teams ranked up near you are well, extreme meta teams like yourself. The game is easy when you can just smoke through the little guys. But when you have to compete against your own levels you get upset and complain you aren't getting enough credits.
It's funny, you want to call me a millennial, yet wanting more credits because you feel entitled to better rewards because you have to work harder(Now that you are so elite being top 5 arena) is millennial thinking is it not?
GW is not and was never designed to be endgame content. Months ago, during another GW debate John Salera and I got into a conversation about the role of GW in this game. For some reason players think GW is endgame content and should play as such. It's not and John agreed it's not. The evidence is also everywhere indicating it's not. It unlocks at level 40 and scales to player "power". It is also the primary source for free credits in the game. It's specifically designed as mid level content as a means of obtaining a necessary currency for progression in levels, gear, and abilities (all of which require credits).
The problem is that the rewards don't scale to level or power. There is also an exponential increase in "difficulty" at around the 37-38k power range. This difficulty isn't something that stops most from completing GW, but it does drastically increase the length of time it takes to complete it. It takes an unreasonable length of time to complete for the same rewards that someone with a team only a few thousand less in power is able to largely auto and fully complete in 20-30 minutes, which is half the time it takes above the cut off.
It's ridiculous, boring, tedious, and unrewarding. The closest thing GW translates to in the MMO world are daily dungeons. With that in mind it makes no sense for something that becomes less rewarding the better you are to also become more difficult in the sense that it's much more time consuming.
And this is how they want it. They want the credit crunch. They want you frustrated into buying credit packs. I would not expect a reward increase. You have to look at everything through the lense of money grabbing with ea
The so called credit crunch is frustrating, I agree. However, while one can partially blame EA as it being a money grab. But there is a lot of truth into the economics of the game. Infusing mass amounts of credits will cause other problems. Because then you can upgrade everyone to level 80, and everyone will be complaining that there is a massive gear crunch because they will need top gear for all their toons. Then the whiners are going to be complaining about needing to be getting full crafted raid gear from GW too because they don't need credits anymore because they will have tons.
Like it or not, you aren't getting massive credits anytime soon or it will just ruin the game.
I am level 78 and I have been FTP. I haven't had to even send in a suicide squad since in weeks. I hover about 50 in arena. Serisouly though, GW is about depth and strategy. I switch my team many times throughout the 12 nodes. I run different characters depending on opponents. IE Dooke gets the call against teams made of mostly Jedi. But GW has been easy and I haven't had trouble completing in in a month now.
If you can't beat GW it's because of 2 reasons. Either 1) You have no depth beyond your arena team, or 2) you stink at strategy.
lmao I was like lmao
when are these sub 80 kids gonna stop talking like they know the game most of us have been 80 for weeks.
Come back when you are at 38k arena power
GW is not hard - it is a chore
GW underpays exponentially.
+100 it is tiring as they seem to know it better than us....even had a level 67 tell me to get good at gw.. was interesting lol.
Can you please stop with the "I'm so great because I am level 80 and blah blah blah." and the "they won't understand".
That's the problem. We get it. You got to the top of the game and it isn't just a cakewalk when you have to go against your equals. So you like to whine about how hard it is to be soooo good.
Please... We all feel sorry for you that you can't level all 86 of your toons to level 80 right now... and that you have to earn it.
GW is a challenge for many people for many different reasons. Some people have a hard time because they don't have enough characters to plow through it, and you guys complain because because it's too hard because you have to beat your peers. If you want to be the best you have to beat the best. Man up and own it. Champions don't complain because they have to beat the next best contender.
That's the problem. We get it. You got to the top of the game and it isn't just a cakewalk when you have to go against your equals. So you like to whine about how hard it is to be soooo good.
Everyone goes against their equals. That's the point of GW. The problem is that at the level 80 37-38k power range the length of time it takes to complete GW increases exponentially while the rewards stay the same.
I absolutely guarantee you that you would also be on here "whining" if it took you 45 minutes to an hour to complete the same content you are now for a fraction of the rewards.
I am level 78 and I have been FTP. I haven't had to even send in a suicide squad since in weeks. I hover about 50 in arena. Serisouly though, GW is about depth and strategy. I switch my team many times throughout the 12 nodes. I run different characters depending on opponents. IE Dooke gets the call against teams made of mostly Jedi. But GW has been easy and I haven't had trouble completing in in a month now.
If you can't beat GW it's because of 2 reasons. Either 1) You have no depth beyond your arena team, or 2) you stink at strategy.
lmao I was like lmao
when are these sub 80 kids gonna stop talking like they know the game most of us have been 80 for weeks.
Come back when you are at 38k arena power
GW is not hard - it is a chore
GW underpays exponentially.
The time it takes to get through the GW has definitely gone up. I think I've only failed one GW in the last few weeks, and maybe a handful in the last few months, but the time to complete it has gone up considerably (protection, prevalence of high evasion teams, etc). The demands of our resources have also gone up considerably, but the rewards we receive have not changed.
I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for rewards that are worthy of the extra time/challenge that many players seem to be facing (based on experiences chatting in guild/with friends and reading these forums).
Just because 'you' or I or any one player still plow through it in half an hour or less, let's not overlook that our experiences are not the only ones present. I'm not claiming that even a majority of players are struggling, but I don't think it should be contentious to say that, on average, the difficulty and time to complete has likely gone up to some degree, and yet we're still earning the same rewards (well, a few more shards in the later chests, but I don't think an extra shard or two nearly justifies the increased time to complete).
Add in the fact that with the increased costs to level and the stagnation in rewards is a net decrease in our ability to catch up to the backlog of characters in need of levels. It's a conflicting demand of our resources to need to pile everything we can into Rancor teams and the PVP squad and various Event based teams; all of which can have the side benefit of broadening ones GW bench strength, but also spreads those efforts thinner.
Bluntly, we can't both broadly specialize and tightly focus at the same time, but these threads seem to waffle back and forth as though doing both is somehow achievable for the average player.
To be clear, I'm fine with the difficulty. I don't mind adjusting my tactics, swapping in characters, throwing a suicide squad at an occasional group to eat up their alpha strike before the real team beats them down. But it'd be nice to be able to justify putting some credits/levels into other characters, to experiment, diversify. I don't think many of us will have a full account of 80's overnight even if they doubled the GW rewards, nobody is asking to be handed a 'finished' set of 85 level 80's tomorrow.
Just that the rewards scale up the way the challenge/time commitment has.
I think it's pretty dumb the difficulty is tied to your arena power. I'm at 36.7k and I stopped adding gear to my arena team because I'm affraid GW will get harder. That's just silly
GW difficulty is just fine and I'm at level 80 with an Arena team at 36K power and ranking around 20. However, I'm definitely for an upscaling in the rewards system not just in GW but at all levels.
Just that the rewards scale up the way the challenge/time commitment has.
This is exactly right. One other reason to increase the rewards is because the cost of EVERYTHING that uses credits in the game increased greatly from level 60-80. Why didn't the rewards for GW?. Also, I think a single omega at the last node is not asking too much, considering these are now required to advance your characters.
Its funny that something that isn't supposed to be end game takes more time and thought than a T7 Heroic "end game" raid that gives roughly the same or arguably much better rewards. Think about that for a second.
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
Its funny that something that isn't supposed to be end game takes more time and thought than a T7 Heroic "end game" raid that gives roughly the same or arguably much better rewards. Think about that for a second.
YOU are at the current end game. Until they extend the endgame(level Cap etc) You are living endgame life. When you reach the endgame things slow down, and take much much longer to do. Leveling a character grows exponentially. To cost from 80 to 90 will probably double yet again what it is from 70-80. If they make it easy for everyone to reach a deep max-level squad of guys then everyone would do it.
Raiding is part of the end game, and you aren't even doing the last raid unless you are at end game status. But that doesn't mean that the raid is the only part of it. The GW should NEVER give the same or even close to the same rewards as a T7 raid. Otherwise what's the point of raiding at T7? It's not about time it's about skill and ability.
Those not in your spot can't do T7 raids where they get 30-40 pieces of raid gear salvage. They get 5 pieces of raid gear salvage in T5. You are still leveling waaaaay faster than anyone else. You get the most gear, the most crystals from the arena, you can craft a furnace after 2-3 raids at most. Everyone else it will take 15-20 raids just to get one furnace.
The GW isn't meant for you to get unlimited credits to powerlevel your team because you can't wait or spend more than 5 minutes a day playing. You already get 300-400 crystals more than everyone else. Use your extra crystals to buy credit packs. Sure they aren't the best deal, but you can still get more credits a day without spending money than anyone else. While everyone else is capped at like 600K a day, you can use your extra arena crystals and buy 500K credits every other day. I would gladly buy those packs if I got enough crystals to do refreshes and purchase credits daily.
You already have the ability to earn waaaay more credits than anyone else, but you want them handed to you, for less time invested.
Are you trolling me? Or are you just not understanding? It's hard to tell with the good trolls. Listen, it doesn't make sense that T7 raids are easier and take less play time than GW. Nor does it make sense that it only requires one team from each of my guild to win T7. If you can't do T7, it's only because you perceive it to be hard because it isn't, at all. It also doesn't make sense that rewards for GW haven't changed and have been the same since level 60 was the cap, everything that requires currency has scaled, why doesn't the mechanism for getting that currency? It's just a simple logic question. Not a haves vs. have nots that you are making this into (even though you claim you aren't).
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
GW definitely needs a revamp. It is outdated relative to the games progression. Maybe make it tiered like the challenges. So level 80 would be the hardest but with the best rewards.
The game isn't designed for Level 80 top 5 ranked players to progress through the game at the same speed as you did when you were level 60 or 70 even even if you want it to be so.
GW is meant to allow players to get credits. How you spend them is up to you. This game is designed to have longevity. If they pour credits into the game, you can max everyone and not have a reason to play. I am trying to explain the game economics of it. It's meant to be a grind, these kinds of games are. The farther you get into the game the longer and hard the grind becomes.
This allows the general population of players to somewhat catch up a little(they will never catch you) so that they at lease have a fighting chance at new content so that they will continue to play and not give up, but at the same time give you a reasonable challenge for at least a short period of time before you plow through it and get back to where you are now. The slow grind farming part. The only difference is that while the average player has 5-10 max level 80 toons at gear 10 in 6 months, you will have 20-30 of them and you will surely dominate whatever the current game state is.
So they made leveling toons and exponential process, they kept the credit infusion linear. They have put a decent credit number on raid rewards, which is an uptick in credit earning, and they just rolled out the empire event, where you had the ability to earn an extra 2 million credits that at least 90% of the player base was not able to complete.
So they are adding credits. Just not at the rate you want. But seriously, you probably don't need chromium packs as much these days. I mean I roll between 50 and 100 on my server and I get 100 crystals daily. You are earning 300-500 daily. if you took 1/2 of those crystals you could by 1/2 million credits every 2 days, which is something you can do without spending a cent that everyone else can't without spending cash.
so my overall point is, don't complain about not getting enough credits when you can already get twice as many as anyone else without spending just because you are a top roster. So GW is hard. You are one of the best, it should be and for the same reward.
I think of it as a whale bump. We all hit credit wall. If u want to whale your way ahead, u can only go so far before it becomes prohibitively expensive to do so.
Im all for whale bumps.
Exponential time to get higher lvls. Working as intended. Buy all the toons u want whale. U will have to spend ridixulous to get them all to level 80.
It will take us a week and a half to lvl a new toon. You can speed that up by paying like the whales. or wait like the rest of us.
The game isn't designed for Level 80 top 5 ranked players to progress through the game at the same speed as you did when you were level 60 or 70 even even if you want it to be so.
GW is meant to allow players to get credits. How you spend them is up to you. This game is designed to have longevity. If they pour credits into the game, you can max everyone and not have a reason to play. I am trying to explain the game economics of it. It's meant to be a grind, these kinds of games are. The farther you get into the game the longer and hard the grind becomes.
This allows the general population of players to somewhat catch up a little(they will never catch you) so that they at lease have a fighting chance at new content so that they will continue to play and not give up, but at the same time give you a reasonable challenge for at least a short period of time before you plow through it and get back to where you are now. The slow grind farming part. The only difference is that while the average player has 5-10 max level 80 toons at gear 10 in 6 months, you will have 20-30 of them and you will surely dominate whatever the current game state is.
So they made leveling toons and exponential process, they kept the credit infusion linear. They have put a decent credit number on raid rewards, which is an uptick in credit earning, and they just rolled out the empire event, where you had the ability to earn an extra 2 million credits that at least 90% of the player base was not able to complete.
So they are adding credits. Just not at the rate you want. But seriously, you probably don't need chromium packs as much these days. I mean I roll between 50 and 100 on my server and I get 100 crystals daily. You are earning 300-500 daily. if you took 1/2 of those crystals you could by 1/2 million credits every 2 days, which is something you can do without spending a cent that everyone else can't without spending cash.
so my overall point is, don't complain about not getting enough credits when you can already get twice as many as anyone else without spending just because you are a top roster. So GW is hard. You are one of the best, it should be and for the same reward.
Ok, I get what you are saying. They certainly are adding credits though raids and events. Honestly, I haven't spent money in a while because I don't feel the desire to but I do get plenty of credits because of raiding and the events. Before the empire event I was at less than 100k credits and now I am over 4M without spending any money. (and going into a hoarding phase) That being said, this is a game and GW is boring, tedious and a chore. It needs to be made faster and the rewards need to increase, even if I don't need the credits, there are other things that should increase to make it seem like I am getting something substantial from the time, effort and tediousness of the task. It would be ideal if they had multiple levels of difficulty. Or they can shorten it to 6 nodes (the last 6) and keep the rewards the same.
☮ Consular ☮American Rebel Rebel Force (Endor)JedhaYavin IV
EA/CG has been looking unto it but i really don't know what they are suppose to see why aren't we being heard? almost every thread is complaining about GW.
It's getting pretty tedious and time consuming but i try to see the light, it can still be enjoyable you just have to look past it all
What I find funny is how lvl 80's apparently face gear 8-10 teams while I already face lvl 70+ teams with full gear lvl 8 6-7 star teams. And I am level 64.... Yeah..
The game isn't designed for Level 80 top 5 ranked players to progress through the game at the same speed as you did when you were level 60 or 70 even even if you want it to be so.
GW is meant to allow players to get credits. How you spend them is up to you. This game is designed to have longevity. If they pour credits into the game, you can max everyone and not have a reason to play. I am trying to explain the game economics of it. It's meant to be a grind, these kinds of games are. The farther you get into the game the longer and hard the grind becomes.
This allows the general population of players to somewhat catch up a little(they will never catch you) so that they at lease have a fighting chance at new content so that they will continue to play and not give up, but at the same time give you a reasonable challenge for at least a short period of time before you plow through it and get back to where you are now. The slow grind farming part. The only difference is that while the average player has 5-10 max level 80 toons at gear 10 in 6 months, you will have 20-30 of them and you will surely dominate whatever the current game state is.
So they made leveling toons and exponential process, they kept the credit infusion linear. They have put a decent credit number on raid rewards, which is an uptick in credit earning, and they just rolled out the empire event, where you had the ability to earn an extra 2 million credits that at least 90% of the player base was not able to complete.
So they are adding credits. Just not at the rate you want. But seriously, you probably don't need chromium packs as much these days. I mean I roll between 50 and 100 on my server and I get 100 crystals daily. You are earning 300-500 daily. if you took 1/2 of those crystals you could by 1/2 million credits every 2 days, which is something you can do without spending a cent that everyone else can't without spending cash.
so my overall point is, don't complain about not getting enough credits when you can already get twice as many as anyone else without spending just because you are a top roster. So GW is hard. You are one of the best, it should be and for the same reward.
You know, I can live with this train of thought about GW and maybe not be so bitter playing it. Great post Brad.
Replies
GW is not and was never designed to be endgame content. Months ago, during another GW debate John Salera and I got into a conversation about the role of GW in this game. For some reason players think GW is endgame content and should play as such. It's not and John agreed it's not. The evidence is also everywhere indicating it's not. It unlocks at level 40 and scales to player "power". It is also the primary source for free credits in the game. It's specifically designed as mid level content as a means of obtaining a necessary currency for progression in levels, gear, and abilities (all of which require credits).
The problem is that the rewards don't scale to level or power. There is also an exponential increase in "difficulty" at around the 37-38k power range. This difficulty isn't something that stops most from completing GW, but it does drastically increase the length of time it takes to complete it. It takes an unreasonable length of time to complete for the same rewards that someone with a team only a few thousand less in power is able to largely auto and fully complete in 20-30 minutes, which is half the time it takes above the cut off.
It's ridiculous, boring, tedious, and unrewarding. The closest thing GW translates to in the MMO world are daily dungeons. With that in mind it makes no sense for something that becomes less rewarding the better you are to also become more difficult in the sense that it's much more time consuming.
The so called credit crunch is frustrating, I agree. However, while one can partially blame EA as it being a money grab. But there is a lot of truth into the economics of the game. Infusing mass amounts of credits will cause other problems. Because then you can upgrade everyone to level 80, and everyone will be complaining that there is a massive gear crunch because they will need top gear for all their toons. Then the whiners are going to be complaining about needing to be getting full crafted raid gear from GW too because they don't need credits anymore because they will have tons.
Like it or not, you aren't getting massive credits anytime soon or it will just ruin the game.
@InternetSwag
+100 it is tiring as they seem to know it better than us....even had a level 67 tell me to get good at gw.. was interesting lol.
Can you please stop with the "I'm so great because I am level 80 and blah blah blah." and the "they won't understand".
That's the problem. We get it. You got to the top of the game and it isn't just a cakewalk when you have to go against your equals. So you like to whine about how hard it is to be soooo good.
Please... We all feel sorry for you that you can't level all 86 of your toons to level 80 right now... and that you have to earn it.
GW is a challenge for many people for many different reasons. Some people have a hard time because they don't have enough characters to plow through it, and you guys complain because because it's too hard because you have to beat your peers. If you want to be the best you have to beat the best. Man up and own it. Champions don't complain because they have to beat the next best contender.
Everyone goes against their equals. That's the point of GW. The problem is that at the level 80 37-38k power range the length of time it takes to complete GW increases exponentially while the rewards stay the same.
I absolutely guarantee you that you would also be on here "whining" if it took you 45 minutes to an hour to complete the same content you are now for a fraction of the rewards.
Shrug, they will learn with time. Until then all we can do is keep educating those who don't know any better.
I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for rewards that are worthy of the extra time/challenge that many players seem to be facing (based on experiences chatting in guild/with friends and reading these forums).
Just because 'you' or I or any one player still plow through it in half an hour or less, let's not overlook that our experiences are not the only ones present. I'm not claiming that even a majority of players are struggling, but I don't think it should be contentious to say that, on average, the difficulty and time to complete has likely gone up to some degree, and yet we're still earning the same rewards (well, a few more shards in the later chests, but I don't think an extra shard or two nearly justifies the increased time to complete).
Add in the fact that with the increased costs to level and the stagnation in rewards is a net decrease in our ability to catch up to the backlog of characters in need of levels. It's a conflicting demand of our resources to need to pile everything we can into Rancor teams and the PVP squad and various Event based teams; all of which can have the side benefit of broadening ones GW bench strength, but also spreads those efforts thinner.
Bluntly, we can't both broadly specialize and tightly focus at the same time, but these threads seem to waffle back and forth as though doing both is somehow achievable for the average player.
To be clear, I'm fine with the difficulty. I don't mind adjusting my tactics, swapping in characters, throwing a suicide squad at an occasional group to eat up their alpha strike before the real team beats them down. But it'd be nice to be able to justify putting some credits/levels into other characters, to experiment, diversify. I don't think many of us will have a full account of 80's overnight even if they doubled the GW rewards, nobody is asking to be handed a 'finished' set of 85 level 80's tomorrow.
Just that the rewards scale up the way the challenge/time commitment has.
Agree, decrease the tediousness (facing different types of team, please) and increase the reward ...
This is exactly right. One other reason to increase the rewards is because the cost of EVERYTHING that uses credits in the game increased greatly from level 60-80. Why didn't the rewards for GW?. Also, I think a single omega at the last node is not asking too much, considering these are now required to advance your characters.
Its funny that something that isn't supposed to be end game takes more time and thought than a T7 Heroic "end game" raid that gives roughly the same or arguably much better rewards. Think about that for a second.
Are you trolling me? Or are you just not understanding? It's hard to tell with the good trolls. Listen, it doesn't make sense that T7 raids are easier and take less play time than GW. Nor does it make sense that it only requires one team from each of my guild to win T7. If you can't do T7, it's only because you perceive it to be hard because it isn't, at all. It also doesn't make sense that rewards for GW haven't changed and have been the same since level 60 was the cap, everything that requires currency has scaled, why doesn't the mechanism for getting that currency? It's just a simple logic question. Not a haves vs. have nots that you are making this into (even though you claim you aren't).
The game isn't designed for Level 80 top 5 ranked players to progress through the game at the same speed as you did when you were level 60 or 70 even even if you want it to be so.
GW is meant to allow players to get credits. How you spend them is up to you. This game is designed to have longevity. If they pour credits into the game, you can max everyone and not have a reason to play. I am trying to explain the game economics of it. It's meant to be a grind, these kinds of games are. The farther you get into the game the longer and hard the grind becomes.
This allows the general population of players to somewhat catch up a little(they will never catch you) so that they at lease have a fighting chance at new content so that they will continue to play and not give up, but at the same time give you a reasonable challenge for at least a short period of time before you plow through it and get back to where you are now. The slow grind farming part. The only difference is that while the average player has 5-10 max level 80 toons at gear 10 in 6 months, you will have 20-30 of them and you will surely dominate whatever the current game state is.
So they made leveling toons and exponential process, they kept the credit infusion linear. They have put a decent credit number on raid rewards, which is an uptick in credit earning, and they just rolled out the empire event, where you had the ability to earn an extra 2 million credits that at least 90% of the player base was not able to complete.
So they are adding credits. Just not at the rate you want. But seriously, you probably don't need chromium packs as much these days. I mean I roll between 50 and 100 on my server and I get 100 crystals daily. You are earning 300-500 daily. if you took 1/2 of those crystals you could by 1/2 million credits every 2 days, which is something you can do without spending a cent that everyone else can't without spending cash.
so my overall point is, don't complain about not getting enough credits when you can already get twice as many as anyone else without spending just because you are a top roster. So GW is hard. You are one of the best, it should be and for the same reward.
Im all for whale bumps.
Exponential time to get higher lvls. Working as intended. Buy all the toons u want whale. U will have to spend ridixulous to get them all to level 80.
It will take us a week and a half to lvl a new toon. You can speed that up by paying like the whales. or wait like the rest of us.
Ok, I get what you are saying. They certainly are adding credits though raids and events. Honestly, I haven't spent money in a while because I don't feel the desire to but I do get plenty of credits because of raiding and the events. Before the empire event I was at less than 100k credits and now I am over 4M without spending any money. (and going into a hoarding phase) That being said, this is a game and GW is boring, tedious and a chore. It needs to be made faster and the rewards need to increase, even if I don't need the credits, there are other things that should increase to make it seem like I am getting something substantial from the time, effort and tediousness of the task. It would be ideal if they had multiple levels of difficulty. Or they can shorten it to 6 nodes (the last 6) and keep the rewards the same.
It's getting pretty tedious and time consuming but i try to see the light, it can still be enjoyable you just have to look past it all
You know, I can live with this train of thought about GW and maybe not be so bitter playing it. Great post Brad.