Heroes that need some stat balancing (note, I said balancing, not nerf):
FOTP (which is also bugged)
Geo Soldier
Both have too much HP to actually be considered a Glass Cannon, yet consistently dish out the most damage in the current meta. QGJ and Rey are both "up there", but they're both significantly squishier compared to those 2.
Poe is actually ok. Sure, he's the cornerstone for any 1st round nuke-heavy team with the current meta, but when you take a look at everything, he's not exactly OP. His damage is poor, with an inconsistent rate to apply his debuff on his own. His health is relatively sub-par, and goes down quite easily to focus-fire so long as he's not constantly resisting any attached debuffs.
Basically, the issue is Geo Soldier and FOTP dishing out damage values that are relatively insane in addition to having enough HP not to be squishy. It gets compounded when they're in a group with Poe since they're both in the high-speed spectrum and are capable of taking out even the most tank-oriented characters in a single action. Balance them, and you'll lose focus on the consideration of Poe being the OP'd unit.
What I'm saying is that if the 2 main culprits for 1st round multiple kills no longer instantly drop characters, you'll notice Poe isn't the one to ultimately determine victory.
As for the whole Dooku being OP situation: folks get over Dooku the moment they start reaching keystone gear levels (namely, those with speed) for their characters in addition to better understanding how best to handle him since he certainly did come with a very high speed value at low gear levels (which is when he dominated). You'll still see people complaining about Dooku, though, coming from newer servers.
@JohnnySteelAlpha because everyone would have too high of hp to one turn kill more than one if them, barriss would then full heal everyone.
A team with barriss lead, and some aoe characters would easily wipe poe team. You basically lose one character max, then aoe and turtle to turn 3, you then probably win because everyone behind poe has no hp, Because they are glass cannons that you have been aoeing.
Barriss was hiding the fact that dps was king because she was improving hp so much and she was healing so well.
@JohnnySteelAlpha dooku actually was OP, because of a bug that they fixed. Fixing that big bright him back in line.
There are 71 characters in this game, there are probably OP threads on about 6 of them. You have 65 characters to choose from. You don't have to make a team of the weakest characters, but you also don't have to make a team of the ridiculous characters. I end up somewhere in the top 50 every day, depending on how much I try. I never do the refresh, I end up in the top 20/10 about half the week. I don't use ridiculous characters.
Anyways, I'm about done with this. You are into your conspiracy theory, you are just ignoring things. There are probably more people like you who fight the nerf than people calling for it, judging by the sheer number of Poe teams I see, but I'm sure devs only read the posts asking for nerf and none of the ones defending the character.
Agree with Darivon - you're still trying to challenge the status quo thinking and not just defend your previous position. We'd all be better off digging in and trying different stuff first rather than saying it's broke. This could be a broke build with no counter, but after seeing this Vent result on video..I'm even less certain that we really know for sure this build isn't counterable. Imagine if all your toons were 7* like the guy you're fighting.
However...based on the reddit link posted that got a Dev's attention and going by the Dev's response, I think the topic of Poe is going to come to an end with a nerf before we can build long enough to go through the trial and error process of raising a counter. It will be really sad though if Poe ends up getting FOTP nerfed as well. He really will drop in value if he's nerfed in damage at all AND Poe is also nerfed. I promise on everything, FOTP is seen as he is because of Poe. When I had that speed build that killed Poe before he moved, FOTP was just another slow guy that got off one shot - even a 7* version. GS, Dooku, Sid, Rey, and Jinn ran circles around him. Once he's reduced back to being slow because of no Poe and he's hitting in his proper relative round...he will not be used nearly as much as he is today even if he's left untouched (including leaving bugs in place). You have higher speed options that do nearly as much damage.
I think the nerf crowd seems to have won another one. We will just wait and see. Maybe it's the right move...but I'd have preferred we get to 70 and sit there for a few weeks trying to build counters before throwing in the towel.
FOTP should not ne nerfed. Just fox his 3x so it's 2x, and fix the typo in the code that switches him tontanker at 7* graduation.
@JohnnySteelAlpha do you not remember everyone complained about dooku just as much as barriss? I didn't see dooku nerfed. I also never saw a dev say "we have crumbled to community pressure and nerfed barriss. We didn't think the nerf was necessary, but we are trying to make a buck."
Blaming the Barris nerf on anything but her data is ridiculous. You might as well blame the illuminati.
The Barris nerf outcry had more to do with selling her up to teo days before the nerf. Like imagine a Pilot Bundle for $50 running until today, and on Saturday a nerf in Pilot to 50% of his damage and switching his Special to do 1/3....
That escalated quickly
In my view Barriss also didn't need a nerf. That full hp heal every 4 turns wouldn't fit in the current meta. I was against the Barriss nerf and voiced this out as well. I really think that we also wouldn't see Barriss anymore in Arena pre-nerf because of the current speed/dmg meta.
Anyway this is very different from Dooku. Dooku was OP in the view of much lower level players around mid 40/50.
Just as Sid got his hate at the start. People didn't notice the extra evasion vs Jedi, same with Dooku and his extra chance vs Jedi (stun / ability block). I'm against nerfing and I hate the word in general but maybe it's another scaling issue.
439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
So I just dinged 65 and thought I should give another go vs a Poe team
Switched lumi back because she is being a power house again at lvl 65 with a new gear level. Unfortunately Asajj still rank 6 (96/100, like seriously). This is an asian guy which runs the same team. I´m sure if my Asajj was 7* I would have won. Fun to show perhaps. It's definately doable if it's not over in 20 seconds. Still would like to see a team with Geo instead of Leia to see how it works out.
edit for ps: perhaps I should have used Lumi's heal instead of force blast (wanted to push in dmg cause lost FotP that early). At the end I was still hoping to win by taking out the biggest turn meter and let Sid get more turn meter instead. There was a minor chance near the end if I had a bit more luck.
@CronozNL I would have thrown the heal, but I think this just illustrates the fact that an anti poe team does not actually counter poe as much as give you a chance of possibly countering poe. I run a very similar team ( phasma (L), FOO, Kylo, Lumi, Asajj), and I get very similar results.
Some days all the poe teams fall at my feet, some days the same poe teams will wreck me. It really turns it into a coin flip.
Well as long as it's not a 20 second battle I'm sort of fine with it. I don't mind losing, part of the game but those 20 second matches are not fun. Level 65 and the new gear does increase the win chance again. His team was 64 I believe.
439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
Barriss could very well end up in the "meta" again. She is still good and will get better.
I agree she should never been nerf so hard. Without her nerf, she will be in today's meta. But with her nerf, she is good for Galatic War (and a superstar at GW). Will she come back? My answer is Yes. Why? My answer is that health will improve defense and only Tanks can stop turn meters from hurting them. But Barriss hits so low. It is such a shame. it was her weakness, but the nerf really hurt too much.
I agree with everything said above. But I agree that her nerf is unnecesary for the meta of the game. It was desperation move. But it is ok. I am grinding Dooku and Rey and many are talking GS and Ig86. Be aware of future complaining of these heroes. Assist and speed. right?
Not all are PvP able, but so good in GW. And in missions. GW have better rewards, yes? So why not get and build many characters and do well in GW? PvP is nice. But GW has Lumi, Ig 86, Poggle, Teebo, Initiate (oh my power and high high health!!), Phasma (oh my great leader), Tusken Raider (oh my very under-rated), Resistance Pilot (the next FOTP??????), and Biggs (meh, but he is rebel, and u never know!!)
People say Mace stink. I buy Jedi pack and build Mace. I use him in PvP and work ok. Not best, but I try. and it work ok (to dispel). But others not like Mace. He is bad, I can see his potential. I wait. I wait. And Mace in Galatic War? hehe. Some may know...you win 5 battles before mace dies. Teebo win 5 more battles before he die. Hehe. and Poe and Han taunting? win 2 or 3 more. Secret? Yes!
Many secret no one say on Forum. But all good secret are farm-able. All good secret are right in front of player's eyes! Just farm and faith. But is good secret.
Heroes that need some stat balancing (note, I said balancing, not nerf):
FOTP (which is also bugged)
Geo Soldier
Both have too much HP to actually be considered a Glass Cannon, yet consistently dish out the most damage in the current meta. QGJ and Rey are both "up there", but they're both significantly squishier compared to those 2.
Poe is actually ok. Sure, he's the cornerstone for any 1st round nuke-heavy team with the current meta, but when you take a look at everything, he's not exactly OP. His damage is poor, with an inconsistent rate to apply his debuff on his own. His health is relatively sub-par, and goes down quite easily to focus-fire so long as he's not constantly resisting any attached debuffs.
I disagree. Poe's brokeness is not exclusive of current meta. Yes, one shot chars mske it mire clear, but in a meta around, say, stun and control, having your Dooku-Daka-Ben go before your enemy's is just as powerful. If characters could not oneround people, but two-round them, then Poe's team will wound the other team in the first round, the other team will wound Poe's team (because he won't have chars able to one-round people either), and then Poe's team would clean up.
The problem with Poe is more basic than that. It's that you get s turn 7 turn meter manipularle, which means you get 5+ actions before the enemy can move. That's too big of an adventage.
Turn manipulators should have Han/Phasma kind of speed. It should not go in the first turn.
If you have played Magic The Gathering, they had a card called Time Walk, which sllowed you an extra turn. Together with other options, it allowed for first turn kills. They restricted/banned it. Time later, they got another card, Time WARP, which gave you sn extra turn as well. But with a cost so high, that you couldn't play it in the first turn, so you could have counter to it.
Poe's ability to Play your full squad before your oponent does is too powerful, regardless of meta. He needs to get rid of turn meter steal, or he needs to go in a lower speed, with Phasma and Han anst other turn meter controllers.
And then, as a separated issue, we have the excesive damage and useless Defensive stats, which also have to be addressed. But "I play 5 chars before you Play 1" is OP, regardless of meta
So I just dinged 65 and thought I should give another go vs a Poe team
Switched lumi back because she is being a power house again at lvl 65 with a new gear level. Unfortunately Asajj still rank 6 (96/100, like seriously). This is an asian guy which runs the same team. I´m sure if my Asajj was 7* I would have won. Fun to show perhaps. It's definately doable if it's not over in 20 seconds. Still would like to see a team with Geo instead of Leia to see how it works out.
edit for ps: perhaps I should have used Lumi's heal instead of force blast (wanted to push in dmg cause lost FotP that early). At the end I was still hoping to win by taking out the biggest turn meter and let Sid get more turn meter instead. There was a minor chance near the end if I had a bit more luck.
You're killing me - I was wanting to hoard arena shipments for a bit - but these Asaaj vids are too compelling. If she was maxed she would have killed Leia, Jinn, FOTP, and Poe all in that one shot. That passive offense up AOE is an impressive skill. Seriously though, thanks for posting.
She is 7* today @JohnnySteelAlpha
Ohw and best thing is if she would have killed anything with that AoE, it would reset cd for the turn after to use it again (as she was last girl standing).
Getting Poggle and Nightsister Initiate as well for some GW clearance.
439-259-888 I have a bad habit of editing my typo's after posting
She is 7* today @JohnnySteelAlpha
Ohw and best thing is if she would have killed anything with that AoE, it would reset cd for the turn after to use it again (as she was last girl standing).
Getting Poggle and Nightsister Initiate as well for some GW clearance.
Nice. I sense some AOE skull crushing videos in the near future
Replies
FOTP (which is also bugged)
Geo Soldier
Both have too much HP to actually be considered a Glass Cannon, yet consistently dish out the most damage in the current meta. QGJ and Rey are both "up there", but they're both significantly squishier compared to those 2.
Poe is actually ok. Sure, he's the cornerstone for any 1st round nuke-heavy team with the current meta, but when you take a look at everything, he's not exactly OP. His damage is poor, with an inconsistent rate to apply his debuff on his own. His health is relatively sub-par, and goes down quite easily to focus-fire so long as he's not constantly resisting any attached debuffs.
Basically, the issue is Geo Soldier and FOTP dishing out damage values that are relatively insane in addition to having enough HP not to be squishy. It gets compounded when they're in a group with Poe since they're both in the high-speed spectrum and are capable of taking out even the most tank-oriented characters in a single action. Balance them, and you'll lose focus on the consideration of Poe being the OP'd unit.
What I'm saying is that if the 2 main culprits for 1st round multiple kills no longer instantly drop characters, you'll notice Poe isn't the one to ultimately determine victory.
As for the whole Dooku being OP situation: folks get over Dooku the moment they start reaching keystone gear levels (namely, those with speed) for their characters in addition to better understanding how best to handle him since he certainly did come with a very high speed value at low gear levels (which is when he dominated). You'll still see people complaining about Dooku, though, coming from newer servers.
A team with barriss lead, and some aoe characters would easily wipe poe team. You basically lose one character max, then aoe and turtle to turn 3, you then probably win because everyone behind poe has no hp, Because they are glass cannons that you have been aoeing.
Barriss was hiding the fact that dps was king because she was improving hp so much and she was healing so well.
There are 71 characters in this game, there are probably OP threads on about 6 of them. You have 65 characters to choose from. You don't have to make a team of the weakest characters, but you also don't have to make a team of the ridiculous characters. I end up somewhere in the top 50 every day, depending on how much I try. I never do the refresh, I end up in the top 20/10 about half the week. I don't use ridiculous characters.
Anyways, I'm about done with this. You are into your conspiracy theory, you are just ignoring things. There are probably more people like you who fight the nerf than people calling for it, judging by the sheer number of Poe teams I see, but I'm sure devs only read the posts asking for nerf and none of the ones defending the character.
FOTP should not ne nerfed. Just fox his 3x so it's 2x, and fix the typo in the code that switches him tontanker at 7* graduation.
The Barris nerf outcry had more to do with selling her up to teo days before the nerf. Like imagine a Pilot Bundle for $50 running until today, and on Saturday a nerf in Pilot to 50% of his damage and switching his Special to do 1/3....
In my view Barriss also didn't need a nerf. That full hp heal every 4 turns wouldn't fit in the current meta. I was against the Barriss nerf and voiced this out as well. I really think that we also wouldn't see Barriss anymore in Arena pre-nerf because of the current speed/dmg meta.
Anyway this is very different from Dooku. Dooku was OP in the view of much lower level players around mid 40/50.
Just as Sid got his hate at the start. People didn't notice the extra evasion vs Jedi, same with Dooku and his extra chance vs Jedi (stun / ability block). I'm against nerfing and I hate the word in general but maybe it's another scaling issue.
Switched lumi back because she is being a power house again at lvl 65 with a new gear level. Unfortunately Asajj still rank 6 (96/100, like seriously). This is an asian guy which runs the same team. I´m sure if my Asajj was 7* I would have won. Fun to show perhaps. It's definately doable if it's not over in 20 seconds. Still would like to see a team with Geo instead of Leia to see how it works out.
edit for ps: perhaps I should have used Lumi's heal instead of force blast (wanted to push in dmg cause lost FotP that early). At the end I was still hoping to win by taking out the biggest turn meter and let Sid get more turn meter instead. There was a minor chance near the end if I had a bit more luck.
@d3gauss @Darivon @BentWookie @Tak @JohnnySteelAlpha @Preemo_Magin
Some days all the poe teams fall at my feet, some days the same poe teams will wreck me. It really turns it into a coin flip.
Yeah that 7th Star on Asajj could have maybe made a difference there
i fought the same guy 30 minutes ago and got crushed by his leia
edit: nevermind, just saw the second vid. that's the guy i fought and got beat by
I agree she should never been nerf so hard. Without her nerf, she will be in today's meta. But with her nerf, she is good for Galatic War (and a superstar at GW). Will she come back? My answer is Yes. Why? My answer is that health will improve defense and only Tanks can stop turn meters from hurting them. But Barriss hits so low. It is such a shame. it was her weakness, but the nerf really hurt too much.
I agree with everything said above. But I agree that her nerf is unnecesary for the meta of the game. It was desperation move. But it is ok. I am grinding Dooku and Rey and many are talking GS and Ig86. Be aware of future complaining of these heroes. Assist and speed. right?
HP and counter.
5's time will be now.
So true!
Not all are PvP able, but so good in GW. And in missions. GW have better rewards, yes? So why not get and build many characters and do well in GW? PvP is nice. But GW has Lumi, Ig 86, Poggle, Teebo, Initiate (oh my power and high high health!!), Phasma (oh my great leader), Tusken Raider (oh my very under-rated), Resistance Pilot (the next FOTP??????), and Biggs (meh, but he is rebel, and u never know!!)
People say Mace stink. I buy Jedi pack and build Mace. I use him in PvP and work ok. Not best, but I try. and it work ok (to dispel). But others not like Mace. He is bad, I can see his potential. I wait. I wait. And Mace in Galatic War? hehe. Some may know...you win 5 battles before mace dies. Teebo win 5 more battles before he die. Hehe. and Poe and Han taunting? win 2 or 3 more. Secret? Yes!
Many secret no one say on Forum. But all good secret are farm-able. All good secret are right in front of player's eyes! Just farm and faith. But is good secret.
I disagree. Poe's brokeness is not exclusive of current meta. Yes, one shot chars mske it mire clear, but in a meta around, say, stun and control, having your Dooku-Daka-Ben go before your enemy's is just as powerful. If characters could not oneround people, but two-round them, then Poe's team will wound the other team in the first round, the other team will wound Poe's team (because he won't have chars able to one-round people either), and then Poe's team would clean up.
The problem with Poe is more basic than that. It's that you get s turn 7 turn meter manipularle, which means you get 5+ actions before the enemy can move. That's too big of an adventage.
Turn manipulators should have Han/Phasma kind of speed. It should not go in the first turn.
If you have played Magic The Gathering, they had a card called Time Walk, which sllowed you an extra turn. Together with other options, it allowed for first turn kills. They restricted/banned it. Time later, they got another card, Time WARP, which gave you sn extra turn as well. But with a cost so high, that you couldn't play it in the first turn, so you could have counter to it.
Poe's ability to Play your full squad before your oponent does is too powerful, regardless of meta. He needs to get rid of turn meter steal, or he needs to go in a lower speed, with Phasma and Han anst other turn meter controllers.
And then, as a separated issue, we have the excesive damage and useless Defensive stats, which also have to be addressed. But "I play 5 chars before you Play 1" is OP, regardless of meta
You're killing me - I was wanting to hoard arena shipments for a bit - but these Asaaj vids are too compelling. If she was maxed she would have killed Leia, Jinn, FOTP, and Poe all in that one shot. That passive offense up AOE is an impressive skill. Seriously though, thanks for posting.
Ohw and best thing is if she would have killed anything with that AoE, it would reset cd for the turn after to use it again (as she was last girl standing).
Getting Poggle and Nightsister Initiate as well for some GW clearance.
Nice. I sense some AOE skull crushing videos in the near future