1.)The Clone Wars
2.)The Phantom Menace
3.)Attack of the Clones
4.)Revenge of the Sith
5.)Rebels
6.)Rogue One
7.)A New Hope
8.)Empire Strikes back
9.)Return of the Jedi
10.)The Force Awakens
11.)The Last Jedi
If you haven't binge watched them all in order your missing important plot points.
1.)The Clone Wars
2.)The Phantom Menace
3.)Attack of the Clones
4.)Revenge of the Sith
5.)Rebels
6.)Rogue One
7.)A New Hope
8.)Empire Strikes back
9.)Return of the Jedi
10.)The Force Awakens
11.)The Last Jedi
If you haven't binge watched them all in order your missing important plot points.
The list changes with everyone - but what if consistent is that TPM is always bottom or second to the bottom.
In the case where TPM is second to the bottom - there is no consistency as to what the bottom one is between posts/players - so therefore unanimously the worst star wars movie is: dah, dah DAH -
The list changes with everyone - but what if consistent is that TPM is always bottom or second to the bottom.
In the case where TPM is second to the bottom - there is no consistency as to what the bottom one is between posts/players - so therefore unanimously the worst star wars movie is: dah, dah DAH -
The Phantom Menace!!!
Why? It would be interesting to hear thoughts.
No main character. Confusing, boring plot. Characters have no discernible personalities and are inconsistently written. Contributes nothing to the saga. Vague/nonexistent villains. Dull visuals. Poorly edited. Lazily shot. Terrible directing. Boring choreography. Toilet humor. Bad child actors. Midichlorians. Another Death Star ending. "Destroy the mothership/queen/leader and whole army fails" trope. Bad set design (both real and animated). No tension whatsoever. And often borderline rascist.
The list changes with everyone - but what if consistent is that TPM is always bottom or second to the bottom.
In the case where TPM is second to the bottom - there is no consistency as to what the bottom one is between posts/players - so therefore unanimously the worst star wars movie is: dah, dah DAH -
The Phantom Menace!!!
Why? It would be interesting to hear thoughts.
No main character. Confusing, boring plot. Characters have no discernible personalities and are inconsistently written. Contributes nothing to the saga. Vague/nonexistent villains. Dull visuals. Poorly edited. Lazily shot. Terrible directing. Boring choreography. Toilet humor. Bad child actors. Midichlorians. Another Death Star ending. "Destroy the mothership/queen/leader and whole army fails" trope. Bad set design (both real and animated). No tension whatsoever.
Other than that it ain't bad
There are main characters.
Boring yes. How is it confusing? It is pretty straight forward.
No personalities - agree.
Contributes nothing to the saga - what is that even supposed to mean?
I'm fairly certain that the Emperor and his ex apprentice Maul are not "Vague" and what does "nonexistent" mean?
Dull visuals, much better than the OT.
Poorly edited - lmao what?
Lazily shot - again what?
Terrible directing - agreed.
Boring choreography - because one of the most powerful Sith lords and one of the strongest Jedi, hitting each other's lightsaber as if they were 3 years old is the best choreography in the world.
Toilet humor - there was humor?
Bad child actors - there's literally no child actor that is good.
Midichlorians - one of the best things. It finally gave some sort of explanation as to why some force users are more powerful than others.
Another Death Star - Uhm Return of the Jedi? It's literally Death Star 2.0.
Bad set design - again when it comes to visuals it is good.
No tension whatsoever - what?
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Rogue One
3. Return of the Jedi
4. A New Hope
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Force Awakens
7. The Phantom Menace
8. Attack of the Clones (which was my favorite movie of all time less than 5 years ago).
How was it your favorite movie of all time 5 years ago, yet meow it's the worst Star Wars movie on your list? Was it the only one you saw 5 years ago?
Nah I had seen all of them, but 5 years ago I was 15. Episode II is easily the coolest visually with Geonosis, and the Dooku/Yoda fight, and I absolutely LOVE Clones. I thought the Original Trilogy paled in comparison to the prequels, since I was all about graphics at the time. But my tastes have changed/improved? over the years, and while I still love Episode II (Even more so since I've discovered prequel memes), I've come to appreciate the quality of the original trilogy.
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
The list changes with everyone - but what if consistent is that TPM is always bottom or second to the bottom.
In the case where TPM is second to the bottom - there is no consistency as to what the bottom one is between posts/players - so therefore unanimously the worst star wars movie is: dah, dah DAH -
The Phantom Menace!!!
Why? It would be interesting to hear thoughts.
No main character. Confusing, boring plot. Characters have no discernible personalities and are inconsistently written. Contributes nothing to the saga. Vague/nonexistent villains. Dull visuals. Poorly edited. Lazily shot. Terrible directing. Boring choreography. Toilet humor. Bad child actors. Midichlorians. Another Death Star ending. "Destroy the mothership/queen/leader and whole army fails" trope. Bad set design (both real and animated). No tension whatsoever.
Other than that it ain't bad
Bad child actors - there's literally no child actor that is good.
Think again
(Though you do have a point, most child actors are pretty painful to watch).
#CloneHelmets4Life...VICTORY!!!! "I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." The more you tighten your grip, CG/EA, the more whales will slip through your fingers (and go F2P or quit).
The list changes with everyone - but what if consistent is that TPM is always bottom or second to the bottom.
In the case where TPM is second to the bottom - there is no consistency as to what the bottom one is between posts/players - so therefore unanimously the worst star wars movie is: dah, dah DAH -
The Phantom Menace!!!
Why? It would be interesting to hear thoughts.
No main character. Confusing, boring plot. Characters have no discernible personalities and are inconsistently written. Contributes nothing to the saga. Vague/nonexistent villains. Dull visuals. Poorly edited. Lazily shot. Terrible directing. Boring choreography. Toilet humor. Bad child actors. Midichlorians. Another Death Star ending. "Destroy the mothership/queen/leader and whole army fails" trope. Bad set design (both real and animated). No tension whatsoever.
Other than that it ain't bad
Bad child actors - there's literally no child actor that is good.
Think again
(Though you do have a point, most child actors are pretty painful to watch).
Ok, there's a small amount of child actors that are good, but the majority are not. The actors in the prequels didn't s*** because they are bad, they s****d because Lucas didn't know how to direct.
The list changes with everyone - but what if consistent is that TPM is always bottom or second to the bottom.
In the case where TPM is second to the bottom - there is no consistency as to what the bottom one is between posts/players - so therefore unanimously the worst star wars movie is: dah, dah DAH -
The Phantom Menace!!!
Why? It would be interesting to hear thoughts.
No main character. Confusing, boring plot. Characters have no discernible personalities and are inconsistently written. Contributes nothing to the saga. Vague/nonexistent villains. Dull visuals. Poorly edited. Lazily shot. Terrible directing. Boring choreography. Toilet humor. Bad child actors. Midichlorians. Another Death Star ending. "Destroy the mothership/queen/leader and whole army fails" trope. Bad set design (both real and animated). No tension whatsoever. And often borderline rascist.
Other than that it ain't bad
@DatBoi I agree that TPM is by far the worst star wars movie EVER, but here are my points to add:
There are main characters - Qui Gon, Obi Wan, Anakin, Padme, Gunray etc etc.
Boring yes.
Confusing no. But the plot line was pretty poor. There could have been a better way for Sidious to get himself nominated as chancellor, as the whole federation blockade was pretty poor and certainly would not work.
No personalities - 100% agree.
Contributes nothing to the saga - I know what you mean and I agree or at least a small percentage of it contributes to the saga.
I do feel there should have been more scenes involving the villains - particularly Maul. He said 2 lines in the entire movie. But their mystery in the movie was not all bad either.
Dull visuals, much better than the OT.
Poorly edited - I disagree?
Lazily shot - I disagree?
Terrible directing - agreed.
Boring choreography - No, the end lightsaber battle was one of the best ever.
Toilet humour - I agree, Jar Jar stepping on poo and getting farted in his face by that animal - childish and stupid.
Bad child actors - 100% agree, not just Ani, but his little friend too! Who strangely has more lines than Maul!
Midichlorians - This was pretty poor, I am not gonna lie, but I do agree that it gives some sort of explanation as to why some force users are more powerful than others. But Ultimately was it needed - not at all.
Another Death Star - Yep, I agree here. ROTJ death star was a believable return of the dreaded planet killer and obviously so was Rogue 1, but TPM Droid COntrol Ship and TFA Starkiller Base were rubbish!
Bad set design - I disagree.
No tension whatsoever - I believe the only tension in the movie was the end lightsaber battle. There should have been more tension in regard to Naboo's urgency throughout the movie.
Some additional points I will add as to why I hate TPM:
It created the chosen one or jesus of the force plot line, which was silly.
It never explains how Darth Maul found them on Tatooine (apparently someone does respond to the message that Obi Wan warned not to respond to, but they should have shown that - because it does not make sense).
Another issue that does not make sense is why Qui Gon and Anakin are running back to the ship through a hot desert, especially when Jedi are patient people - it was explained in a deleted scene that they encountered one of Maul's probe droids, but this should have been left in the movie - because this too does not make sense.
The whole Podrace - waste of time and added nothing to the story - it was rubbish. Qui Gon could have come up with other ways to get the job done, but this was terrible.
I was confused when Padme revealed herself as the Queen, because I always thought she was the same person, even though she said she was a hand maiden - I just thought that whole "deception" was very poorly executed.
I also disliked how Padme (as the Queen) spoke - she sounded like a robot.
Anakin "spinning" while travelling in the same direction still would have been hit, even by a droid.
The list changes with everyone - but what if consistent is that TPM is always bottom or second to the bottom.
In the case where TPM is second to the bottom - there is no consistency as to what the bottom one is between posts/players - so therefore unanimously the worst star wars movie is: dah, dah DAH -
The Phantom Menace!!!
Why? It would be interesting to hear thoughts.
No main character. Confusing, boring plot. Characters have no discernible personalities and are inconsistently written. Contributes nothing to the saga. Vague/nonexistent villains. Dull visuals. Poorly edited. Lazily shot. Terrible directing. Boring choreography. Toilet humor. Bad child actors. Midichlorians. Another Death Star ending. "Destroy the mothership/queen/leader and whole army fails" trope. Bad set design (both real and animated). No tension whatsoever.
Other than that it ain't bad
There are main characters.
Boring yes. How is it confusing? It is pretty straight forward.
No personalities - agree.
Contributes nothing to the saga - what is that even supposed to mean?
I'm fairly certain that the Emperor and his ex apprentice Maul are not "Vague" and what does "nonexistent" mean?
Dull visuals, much better than the OT.
Poorly edited - lmao what?
Lazily shot - again what?
Terrible directing - agreed.
Boring choreography - because one of the most powerful Sith lords and one of the strongest Jedi, hitting each other's lightsaber as if they were 3 years old is the best choreography in the world.
Toilet humor - there was humor?
Bad child actors - there's literally no child actor that is good.
Midichlorians - one of the best things. It finally gave some sort of explanation as to why some force users are more powerful than others.
Another Death Star - Uhm Return of the Jedi? It's literally Death Star 2.0.
Bad set design - again when it comes to visuals it is good.
No tension whatsoever - what?
I mean a main character. The OT was about Luke. Yes there were supporting characters who all play their role (except for ROTJ where Han is useless) but it was still Luke's story. When you're writing a fantasy story with bizarre creatures and settings, you need a central, relatable character who grows with the audience. Qui-Gon isn't the main character. He's dull, emotionless, and has no arc. He doesn't need to learn anything because he's at the end of his story. It isnt anakin. He doesn't even show up until 30-40 minutes in the movie and when he does, he's just a bystander to the main "plot". And it isn't Obi-Wan because he just follows qui-gon around (when he isn't waiting out the movie on the ship a la tatooine) without doing anything.
The plot is confusing and full of plot holes. Why is the Trade Federation putting a blockade on trade? Why are they threatening to secede from the republic (or whatever their plan is)? Why are they following orders from a guy in a hood? What could Palpatine promise them that wouldn't compromise his position in the senate? Why would palpatine want qui gon and obi wan killed when they board the TF ship? Why did they send (useless) battle droids? Why didn't they use a clear gas to kill the jedi? How did Qui Gon know what gas they used unless he smelled it? How are the Gungans and Naboo citizens at all dependent on each other? Why is the population of Naboo, an apparent paradise lush with vegetation suddenly at risk of starving because of a few days of blocked intergalactic trade? And this is barely twenty minutes into the movie.
If Phantom Menace never existed and Lucas just released AOTC, would there be any difference? All of the returning characters have completely different personalities so we aren't following any character arcs. There's no story arc since there was nothing to set up the Clone Wars. Maul was killed so there isn't a returning villain. I can't think of anything of importance that was established in Phantom so I have to ask, why was Phantom made? What was it's purpose?
Phantom has no central antagonist. The closest thing to villains in Phantom Menace are the Trade Federation (the neimodian characters), their droids, Palpatine, and Darth Maul. Well we can cross Palp out cause he doesn't do anything and the protagonists(?) dont even know he exists. Technically the Trade Federation is the primary antagonist because they cause the conflict of the story, but the Neimoidians are cowardly, irrational, confusing, have no connection to the protagonists, and have no apparent motivations (not to mention are borderline racist). The Trade Federation's droids are quite possibly the most comically designed, boring, un-intimidating, useless, plot driven army I've ever seen in any story. They pose absolutely no threat to anyone (unless the script reeeeeaaally needs them to) and are often reduced to comic relief. So we're left with Maul, who is possibly the worst antagonist in cinema. He has two scenes where he confronts the protagonists(?) and they are both boring fight scenes where he has 0 characterization, 0 motivation, 0 connection to the protagonists(?), and 0 dialogue. If I asked you to name a single personality trait possessed by Maul, you might say, "evil". Well prove it. Until he kills Qui Gon, he does nothing "evil" or even moderately intimidating.
Maybe its called "Phantom" Menace because the menace doesn't actually exist.
The visuals are no more than cheap cartoons, and when Lucas doesn't use terrible CGI, he's using hilariously worse puppets (yoda and neimodians) that are miles behind legendary characters like OT Jabba and Ackbar.
To say that this...
Is anywhere close to this...
...Is absurd
The editing and cinematography are lazy and boring. Any 16 year old with an iphone and Windows Movie Maker can shoot over-the-shoulder, shot-reverse-shot dialogue. The OT used visuals to tell a story instead of boring, expositional dialogue. Just look at that opening shot from ANH. Even without the opening crawl, you can literally see the long reach of the Empire and you automatically know that the Rebels are the underdogs.
In the OT (especially Empire and Jedi), the choreography services the characters and the story in addition to looking cool. If QG and Maul were just two guys in black, you wouldn't be able to discern anything about their personalities or where they are in their arcs. Compare the following:
can you tell the difference? In Empire, you can see with your eyes how calm and confident Vader is while Luke is exerting much more effort, which reflects their characters. In Phantom, its just three dudes swinging swords around. This is another example of the power of actual filmmaking. That shot in Empire is gorgeous. There are bright contrasting colors, the lighting is dramatic, and Vader bathed in darkness and smoke gives me chills. The shot from Phantom is flat and boring (like the choreography).
Ok. Midichlorians. The introduction of Midichlorians completely and utterly undermines Luke's training in Empire, and everything the OT established about the Force. The whole point of the Force is that you have to have faith in both it and yourself in order to be strong with it. Most people in the OT didn't even believe in it because it wasn't some tangible thing that you can see and touch. It flows through you and everybody. Thats why the idea of the Force resonated with so many people, because it is in you. You just have to believe and submit to it. Turning something as mystical and intangible as the Force into f***ing blood mites or whatever sucks the magic out of it.
I know there's a Death Star in ROTJ. Believe it or not I've seen it.
I mentioned this when I was discussing the Battle Droids. There is not a single scene in all of Phantom where I feel like the characters are in any danger. When you've established that your "bad guys" are comic relief for babies that can be destroyed by accident, its hard to ever feel nervous.
TLDR:
I know I went pretty hard on this, but Phantom Menace is an objectively poorly made movie. I don't care if you like it because it did something new with Star Wars, because it did. But as someone who loves critiquing star wars and film as a medium, I can't not argue my point (often to a fault).
My intent is not to insult you or anyone else who likes the prequels, but merely to indicate that if you do, dont ignore the things they did wrong.
The list changes with everyone - but what if consistent is that TPM is always bottom or second to the bottom.
In the case where TPM is second to the bottom - there is no consistency as to what the bottom one is between posts/players - so therefore unanimously the worst star wars movie is: dah, dah DAH -
The Phantom Menace!!!
Why? It would be interesting to hear thoughts.
No main character. Confusing, boring plot. Characters have no discernible personalities and are inconsistently written. Contributes nothing to the saga. Vague/nonexistent villains. Dull visuals. Poorly edited. Lazily shot. Terrible directing. Boring choreography. Toilet humor. Bad child actors. Midichlorians. Another Death Star ending. "Destroy the mothership/queen/leader and whole army fails" trope. Bad set design (both real and animated). No tension whatsoever.
Other than that it ain't bad
There are main characters.
Boring yes. How is it confusing? It is pretty straight forward.
No personalities - agree.
Contributes nothing to the saga - what is that even supposed to mean?
I'm fairly certain that the Emperor and his ex apprentice Maul are not "Vague" and what does "nonexistent" mean?
Dull visuals, much better than the OT.
Poorly edited - lmao what?
Lazily shot - again what?
Terrible directing - agreed.
Boring choreography - because one of the most powerful Sith lords and one of the strongest Jedi, hitting each other's lightsaber as if they were 3 years old is the best choreography in the world.
Toilet humor - there was humor?
Bad child actors - there's literally no child actor that is good.
Midichlorians - one of the best things. It finally gave some sort of explanation as to why some force users are more powerful than others.
Another Death Star - Uhm Return of the Jedi? It's literally Death Star 2.0.
Bad set design - again when it comes to visuals it is good.
No tension whatsoever - what?
I mean a main character. The OT was about Luke. Yes there were supporting characters who all play their role (except for ROTJ where Han is useless) but it was still Luke's story. When you're writing a fantasy story with bizarre creatures and settings, you need a central, relatable character who grows with the audience. Qui-Gon isn't the main character. He's dull, emotionless, and has no arc. He doesn't need to learn anything because he's at the end of his story. It isnt anakin. He doesn't even show up until 30-40 minutes in the movie and when he does, he's just a bystander to the main "plot". And it isn't Obi-Wan because he just follows qui-gon around (when he isn't waiting out the movie on the ship a la tatooine) without doing anything.
The plot is confusing and full of plot holes. Why is the Trade Federation putting a blockade on trade? Why are they threatening to secede from the republic (or whatever their plan is)? Why are they following orders from a guy in a hood? What could Palpatine promise them that wouldn't compromise his position in the senate? Why would palpatine want qui gon and obi wan killed when they board the TF ship? Why did they send (useless) battle droids? Why didn't they use a clear gas to kill the jedi? How did Qui Gon know what gas they used unless he smelled it? How are the Gungans and Naboo citizens at all dependent on each other? Why is the population of Naboo, an apparent paradise lush with vegetation suddenly at risk of starving because of a few days of blocked intergalactic trade? And this is barely twenty minutes into the movie.
If Phantom Menace never existed and Lucas just released AOTC, would there be any difference? All of the returning characters have completely different personalities so we aren't following any character arcs. There's no story arc since there was nothing to set up the Clone Wars. Maul was killed so there isn't a returning villain. I can't think of anything of importance that was established in Phantom so I have to ask, why was Phantom made? What was it's purpose?
Phantom has no central antagonist. The closest thing to villains in Phantom Menace are the Trade Federation (the neimodian characters), their droids, Palpatine, and Darth Maul. Well we can cross Palp out cause he doesn't do anything and the protagonists(?) dont even know he exists. Technically the Trade Federation is the primary antagonist because they cause the conflict of the story, but the Neimoidians are cowardly, irrational, confusing, have no connection to the protagonists, and have no apparent motivations (not to mention are borderline racist). The Trade Federation's droids are quite possibly the most comically designed, boring, un-intimidating, useless, plot driven army I've ever seen in any story. They pose absolutely no threat to anyone (unless the script reeeeeaaally needs them to) and are often reduced to comic relief. So we're left with Maul, who is possibly the worst antagonist in cinema. He has two scenes where he confronts the protagonists(?) and they are both boring fight scenes where he has 0 characterization, 0 motivation, 0 connection to the protagonists(?), and 0 dialogue. If I asked you to name a single personality trait possessed by Maul, you might say, "evil". Well prove it. Until he kills Qui Gon, he does nothing "evil" or even moderately intimidating.
Maybe its called "Phantom" Menace because the menace doesn't actually exist.
The visuals are no more than cheap cartoons, and when Lucas doesn't use terrible CGI, he's using hilariously worse puppets (yoda and neimodians) that are miles behind legendary characters like OT Jabba and Ackbar.
To say that this...
Is anywhere close to this...
...Is absurd
The editing and cinematography are lazy and boring. Any 16 year old with an iphone and Windows Movie Maker can shoot over-the-shoulder, shot-reverse-shot dialogue. The OT used visuals to tell a story instead of boring, expositional dialogue. Just look at that opening shot from ANH. Even without the opening crawl, you can literally see the long reach of the Empire and you automatically know that the Rebels are the underdogs.
In the OT (especially Empire and Jedi), the choreography services the characters and the story in addition to looking cool. If QG and Maul were just two guys in black, you wouldn't be able to discern anything about their personalities or where they are in their arcs. Compare the following:
can you tell the difference? In Empire, you can see with your eyes how calm and confident Vader is while Luke is exerting much more effort, which reflects their characters. In Phantom, its just three dudes swinging swords around. This is another example of the power of actual filmmaking. That shot in Empire is gorgeous. There are bright contrasting colors, the lighting is dramatic, and Vader bathed in darkness and smoke gives me chills. The shot from Phantom is flat and boring (like the choreography).
Ok. Midichlorians. The introduction of Midichlorians completely and utterly undermines Luke's training in Empire, and everything the OT established about the Force. The whole point of the Force is that you have to have faith in both it and yourself in order to be strong with it. Most people in the OT didn't even believe in it because it wasn't some tangible thing that you can see and touch. It flows through you and everybody. Thats why the idea of the Force resonated with so many people, because it is in you. You just have to believe and submit to it. Turning something as mystical and intangible as the Force into f***ing blood mites or whatever sucks the magic out of it.
I know there's a Death Star in ROTJ. Believe it or not I've seen it.
I mentioned this when I was discussing the Battle Droids. There is not a single scene in all of Phantom where I feel like the characters are in any danger. When you've established that your "bad guys" are comic relief for babies that can be destroyed by accident, its hard to ever feel nervous.
TLDR:
I know I went pretty hard on this, but Phantom Menace is an objectively poorly made movie. I don't care if you like it because it did something new with Star Wars, because it did. But as someone who loves critiquing star wars and film as a medium, I can't not argue my point (often to a fault).
My intent is not to insult you or anyone else who likes the prequels, but merely to indicate that if you do, dont ignore the things they did wrong.
I agree with you 100%; you have made me look at the fight scene at Bespin with a new pair of eyes. I never noticed the contrasting styles before. I also strongly agree that the characters in TPM had no personality or arcs, though I disagree on the subject of midichlorians: I feel that while the series needs some mystery, there was already enough and I was glad to get a scientific explanation. Yoda was a mystery. The force ghosts were a mystery. Boba Fett was a mystery. Obi-Wan was a mystery. I was glad that the prequels clarified these things, and I do believe that the choreography in TPM was great as well, though you did make a very convincing argument. I especially agree on your assessment of the first 20 minutes: why was the blockade started in the first place? Why invite the jedi for negotiations only to kill them? Why partake in a podrace, surely the queen had money? If not on her, then on a data card or electronic account, surely?
I'm one the the"old guys" that have seen every release at the theater. It was ESB for a very long time, however RO moved me so much, I have to say it's at the top of my list. I know that those who are into expanded universe hate RO because of character arcs, but it still is one of the cleanest and purest story-telling movies!
@DatBoi I have to hand it to you that last post of yours was brilliant!
I will add these points:
Plot: Federation were schemed by Palp to blockade Naboo in order for him to use the corruption and greed within the senate to manipulate his election to office as Chancellor. However, you are right. What are the trade federation getting out of it, if discovered they have lost. Sidious obviously promised them a war where their battle droids would be commissioned to a point where the Federation were rich beyond measure - but who would believe this scheme and actually carry it out for a stranger while risking everything?
Maul: I wouldn't say he is evil as such, but I would call him a mute.
The choreography was good, I am not saying that I enjoy it more than ESB, but Vader knew he was battling his son and had no thought of killing Luke - he was confident and was only testing Luke's abilities. The scene in TPM was fast paced because it was 2 experienced Jedi against 1 sith - so it was fast and dramatic - perhaps not as cinematic as TESB.
Battle Droids - totally agree. But I think for the most part it worked.
As for TPM as a whole I agree that it added little to the saga and what it did add, could easily have been the first part of AOTC, rather than its love story dragging on so poorly through most of the movie.
The Phantom Menace title I believe is a jok because the movie itself is the Menace and it takes a post like yours to route it out - therefore it has phantom qualities, lol
If y'all liked my post, check out RedLetterMedia's reviews of the prequels on youtube. I consider them required viewing for any star wars fan and they have had a huge impact on how i watch star wars (and all movies). They're pretty long, but they're incredibly well written and edited, and a much better use of time than actually watching the horrible movies they're eviscerating.
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Rogue One
3. Return of the Jedi
4. A New Hope
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Force Awakens
7. The Phantom Menace
8. Attack of the Clones (which was my favorite movie of all time less than 5 years ago).
How was it your favorite movie of all time 5 years ago, yet meow it's the worst Star Wars movie on your list? Was it the only one you saw 5 years ago?
Nah I had seen all of them, but 5 years ago I was 15. Episode II is easily the coolest visually with Geonosis, and the Dooku/Yoda fight, and I absolutely LOVE Clones. I thought the Original Trilogy paled in comparison to the prequels, since I was all about graphics at the time. But my tastes have changed/improved? over the years, and while I still love Episode II (Even more so since I've discovered prequel memes), I've come to appreciate the quality of the original trilogy.
I remember waaaaay back in the mid to late 80's going to the mall and loitering in the sears electronic section watching the ESB & ROTJ lightsaber scenes play on the Bigsceen projection TVs...
I can vividly remember myself & my other nerdy childhood friends drawn to the electronics section floor like bugs drawn to bug zapper by the lightsaber sounds... then getting run off by the sears salesmen with the same intensity as micheal douglas in "falling down" and retreating to arcade only to do it again and again until we finally got caught... and then playing D&D afterwards.
1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Rogue One
3. Return of the Jedi
4. A New Hope
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. Force Awakens
7. The Phantom Menace
8. Attack of the Clones (which was my favorite movie of all time less than 5 years ago).
How was it your favorite movie of all time 5 years ago, yet meow it's the worst Star Wars movie on your list? Was it the only one you saw 5 years ago?
Nah I had seen all of them, but 5 years ago I was 15. Episode II is easily the coolest visually with Geonosis, and the Dooku/Yoda fight, and I absolutely LOVE Clones. I thought the Original Trilogy paled in comparison to the prequels, since I was all about graphics at the time. But my tastes have changed/improved? over the years, and while I still love Episode II (Even more so since I've discovered prequel memes), I've come to appreciate the quality of the original trilogy.
1. The Phantom Menace
2. Return of the Jedi
3. Attack of the Clones
4. The Empire Strikes Back
5. Rogue One
6. A New Hope
7. The Force Awakens
8. Revenge of the Sith
Before anyone asks I grew up on the original trilogy, but feel the Prequels (minus Episode 3) were as good if not better films
1. The Phantom Menace
2. Return of the Jedi
3. Attack of the Clones
4. The Empire Strikes Back
5. Rogue One
6. A New Hope
7. The Force Awakens
8. Revenge of the Sith
Before anyone asks I grew up on the original trilogy, but feel the Prequels (minus Episode 3) were as good if not better films
1. The Phantom Menace
2. Return of the Jedi
3. Attack of the Clones
4. The Empire Strikes Back
5. Rogue One
6. A New Hope
7. The Force Awakens
8. Revenge of the Sith
Before anyone asks I grew up on the original trilogy, but feel the Prequels (minus Episode 3) were as good if not better films
What do you think makes phantom menace a good movie let alone better than any of the other ones?
1. The Phantom Menace
2. Return of the Jedi
3. Attack of the Clones
4. The Empire Strikes Back
5. Rogue One
6. A New Hope
7. The Force Awakens
8. Revenge of the Sith
Before anyone asks I grew up on the original trilogy, but feel the Prequels (minus Episode 3) were as good if not better films
Your third favorite movie has the most famous quote of the prequels. SAAAAANNNNDDD
Replies
2.)The Phantom Menace
3.)Attack of the Clones
4.)Revenge of the Sith
5.)Rebels
6.)Rogue One
7.)A New Hope
8.)Empire Strikes back
9.)Return of the Jedi
10.)The Force Awakens
11.)The Last Jedi
If you haven't binge watched them all in order your missing important plot points.
Lol, at first i thought your list was upside down
2. ESB
3. RO
4. ROTJ
5. ROTS
6. AOTC
7. PM
8. TFA
I despise TFA all the characters have dumb morals and don't even get me started on Rey's force powers.
2. Star Wars
3. RotJ
4. TFA
5. R1
6. The Holiday Special
7. RotS
8. TPM
9. AotC
The OT in Harmy's Despecialized Editions please.
-Sun Tzu
1. Empire
2. Rogue
3. Hope
4. Jedi
5. Sith
6. Force
7. Menace
8. Clones
In the case where TPM is second to the bottom - there is no consistency as to what the bottom one is between posts/players - so therefore unanimously the worst star wars movie is: dah, dah DAH -
The Phantom Menace!!!
Why? It would be interesting to hear thoughts.
No main character. Confusing, boring plot. Characters have no discernible personalities and are inconsistently written. Contributes nothing to the saga. Vague/nonexistent villains. Dull visuals. Poorly edited. Lazily shot. Terrible directing. Boring choreography. Toilet humor. Bad child actors. Midichlorians. Another Death Star ending. "Destroy the mothership/queen/leader and whole army fails" trope. Bad set design (both real and animated). No tension whatsoever. And often borderline rascist.
Other than that it ain't bad
There are main characters.
Boring yes. How is it confusing? It is pretty straight forward.
No personalities - agree.
Contributes nothing to the saga - what is that even supposed to mean?
I'm fairly certain that the Emperor and his ex apprentice Maul are not "Vague" and what does "nonexistent" mean?
Dull visuals, much better than the OT.
Poorly edited - lmao what?
Lazily shot - again what?
Terrible directing - agreed.
Boring choreography - because one of the most powerful Sith lords and one of the strongest Jedi, hitting each other's lightsaber as if they were 3 years old is the best choreography in the world.
Toilet humor - there was humor?
Bad child actors - there's literally no child actor that is good.
Midichlorians - one of the best things. It finally gave some sort of explanation as to why some force users are more powerful than others.
Another Death Star - Uhm Return of the Jedi? It's literally Death Star 2.0.
Bad set design - again when it comes to visuals it is good.
No tension whatsoever - what?
Nah I had seen all of them, but 5 years ago I was 15. Episode II is easily the coolest visually with Geonosis, and the Dooku/Yoda fight, and I absolutely LOVE Clones. I thought the Original Trilogy paled in comparison to the prequels, since I was all about graphics at the time. But my tastes have changed/improved? over the years, and while I still love Episode II (Even more so since I've discovered prequel memes), I've come to appreciate the quality of the original trilogy.
(Though you do have a point, most child actors are pretty painful to watch).
Ok, there's a small amount of child actors that are good, but the majority are not. The actors in the prequels didn't s*** because they are bad, they s****d because Lucas didn't know how to direct.
@DatBoi I agree that TPM is by far the worst star wars movie EVER, but here are my points to add:
There are main characters - Qui Gon, Obi Wan, Anakin, Padme, Gunray etc etc.
Boring yes.
Confusing no. But the plot line was pretty poor. There could have been a better way for Sidious to get himself nominated as chancellor, as the whole federation blockade was pretty poor and certainly would not work.
No personalities - 100% agree.
Contributes nothing to the saga - I know what you mean and I agree or at least a small percentage of it contributes to the saga.
I do feel there should have been more scenes involving the villains - particularly Maul. He said 2 lines in the entire movie. But their mystery in the movie was not all bad either.
Dull visuals, much better than the OT.
Poorly edited - I disagree?
Lazily shot - I disagree?
Terrible directing - agreed.
Boring choreography - No, the end lightsaber battle was one of the best ever.
Toilet humour - I agree, Jar Jar stepping on poo and getting farted in his face by that animal - childish and stupid.
Bad child actors - 100% agree, not just Ani, but his little friend too! Who strangely has more lines than Maul!
Midichlorians - This was pretty poor, I am not gonna lie, but I do agree that it gives some sort of explanation as to why some force users are more powerful than others. But Ultimately was it needed - not at all.
Another Death Star - Yep, I agree here. ROTJ death star was a believable return of the dreaded planet killer and obviously so was Rogue 1, but TPM Droid COntrol Ship and TFA Starkiller Base were rubbish!
Bad set design - I disagree.
No tension whatsoever - I believe the only tension in the movie was the end lightsaber battle. There should have been more tension in regard to Naboo's urgency throughout the movie.
Some additional points I will add as to why I hate TPM:
It created the chosen one or jesus of the force plot line, which was silly.
It never explains how Darth Maul found them on Tatooine (apparently someone does respond to the message that Obi Wan warned not to respond to, but they should have shown that - because it does not make sense).
Another issue that does not make sense is why Qui Gon and Anakin are running back to the ship through a hot desert, especially when Jedi are patient people - it was explained in a deleted scene that they encountered one of Maul's probe droids, but this should have been left in the movie - because this too does not make sense.
The whole Podrace - waste of time and added nothing to the story - it was rubbish. Qui Gon could have come up with other ways to get the job done, but this was terrible.
I was confused when Padme revealed herself as the Queen, because I always thought she was the same person, even though she said she was a hand maiden - I just thought that whole "deception" was very poorly executed.
I also disliked how Padme (as the Queen) spoke - she sounded like a robot.
Anakin "spinning" while travelling in the same direction still would have been hit, even by a droid.
Jar Jar - need I say more.
I mean a main character. The OT was about Luke. Yes there were supporting characters who all play their role (except for ROTJ where Han is useless) but it was still Luke's story. When you're writing a fantasy story with bizarre creatures and settings, you need a central, relatable character who grows with the audience. Qui-Gon isn't the main character. He's dull, emotionless, and has no arc. He doesn't need to learn anything because he's at the end of his story. It isnt anakin. He doesn't even show up until 30-40 minutes in the movie and when he does, he's just a bystander to the main "plot". And it isn't Obi-Wan because he just follows qui-gon around (when he isn't waiting out the movie on the ship a la tatooine) without doing anything.
The plot is confusing and full of plot holes. Why is the Trade Federation putting a blockade on trade? Why are they threatening to secede from the republic (or whatever their plan is)? Why are they following orders from a guy in a hood? What could Palpatine promise them that wouldn't compromise his position in the senate? Why would palpatine want qui gon and obi wan killed when they board the TF ship? Why did they send (useless) battle droids? Why didn't they use a clear gas to kill the jedi? How did Qui Gon know what gas they used unless he smelled it? How are the Gungans and Naboo citizens at all dependent on each other? Why is the population of Naboo, an apparent paradise lush with vegetation suddenly at risk of starving because of a few days of blocked intergalactic trade? And this is barely twenty minutes into the movie.
If Phantom Menace never existed and Lucas just released AOTC, would there be any difference? All of the returning characters have completely different personalities so we aren't following any character arcs. There's no story arc since there was nothing to set up the Clone Wars. Maul was killed so there isn't a returning villain. I can't think of anything of importance that was established in Phantom so I have to ask, why was Phantom made? What was it's purpose?
Phantom has no central antagonist. The closest thing to villains in Phantom Menace are the Trade Federation (the neimodian characters), their droids, Palpatine, and Darth Maul. Well we can cross Palp out cause he doesn't do anything and the protagonists(?) dont even know he exists. Technically the Trade Federation is the primary antagonist because they cause the conflict of the story, but the Neimoidians are cowardly, irrational, confusing, have no connection to the protagonists, and have no apparent motivations (not to mention are borderline racist). The Trade Federation's droids are quite possibly the most comically designed, boring, un-intimidating, useless, plot driven army I've ever seen in any story. They pose absolutely no threat to anyone (unless the script reeeeeaaally needs them to) and are often reduced to comic relief. So we're left with Maul, who is possibly the worst antagonist in cinema. He has two scenes where he confronts the protagonists(?) and they are both boring fight scenes where he has 0 characterization, 0 motivation, 0 connection to the protagonists(?), and 0 dialogue. If I asked you to name a single personality trait possessed by Maul, you might say, "evil". Well prove it. Until he kills Qui Gon, he does nothing "evil" or even moderately intimidating.
Maybe its called "Phantom" Menace because the menace doesn't actually exist.
The visuals are no more than cheap cartoons, and when Lucas doesn't use terrible CGI, he's using hilariously worse puppets (yoda and neimodians) that are miles behind legendary characters like OT Jabba and Ackbar.
To say that this...
Is anywhere close to this...
...Is absurd
The editing and cinematography are lazy and boring. Any 16 year old with an iphone and Windows Movie Maker can shoot over-the-shoulder, shot-reverse-shot dialogue. The OT used visuals to tell a story instead of boring, expositional dialogue. Just look at that opening shot from ANH. Even without the opening crawl, you can literally see the long reach of the Empire and you automatically know that the Rebels are the underdogs.
In the OT (especially Empire and Jedi), the choreography services the characters and the story in addition to looking cool. If QG and Maul were just two guys in black, you wouldn't be able to discern anything about their personalities or where they are in their arcs. Compare the following:
can you tell the difference? In Empire, you can see with your eyes how calm and confident Vader is while Luke is exerting much more effort, which reflects their characters. In Phantom, its just three dudes swinging swords around. This is another example of the power of actual filmmaking. That shot in Empire is gorgeous. There are bright contrasting colors, the lighting is dramatic, and Vader bathed in darkness and smoke gives me chills. The shot from Phantom is flat and boring (like the choreography).
Ok. Midichlorians. The introduction of Midichlorians completely and utterly undermines Luke's training in Empire, and everything the OT established about the Force. The whole point of the Force is that you have to have faith in both it and yourself in order to be strong with it. Most people in the OT didn't even believe in it because it wasn't some tangible thing that you can see and touch. It flows through you and everybody. Thats why the idea of the Force resonated with so many people, because it is in you. You just have to believe and submit to it. Turning something as mystical and intangible as the Force into f***ing blood mites or whatever sucks the magic out of it.
I know there's a Death Star in ROTJ. Believe it or not I've seen it.
I mentioned this when I was discussing the Battle Droids. There is not a single scene in all of Phantom where I feel like the characters are in any danger. When you've established that your "bad guys" are comic relief for babies that can be destroyed by accident, its hard to ever feel nervous.
TLDR:
I know I went pretty hard on this, but Phantom Menace is an objectively poorly made movie. I don't care if you like it because it did something new with Star Wars, because it did. But as someone who loves critiquing star wars and film as a medium, I can't not argue my point (often to a fault).
My intent is not to insult you or anyone else who likes the prequels, but merely to indicate that if you do, dont ignore the things they did wrong.
I agree with you 100%; you have made me look at the fight scene at Bespin with a new pair of eyes. I never noticed the contrasting styles before. I also strongly agree that the characters in TPM had no personality or arcs, though I disagree on the subject of midichlorians: I feel that while the series needs some mystery, there was already enough and I was glad to get a scientific explanation. Yoda was a mystery. The force ghosts were a mystery. Boba Fett was a mystery. Obi-Wan was a mystery. I was glad that the prequels clarified these things, and I do believe that the choreography in TPM was great as well, though you did make a very convincing argument. I especially agree on your assessment of the first 20 minutes: why was the blockade started in the first place? Why invite the jedi for negotiations only to kill them? Why partake in a podrace, surely the queen had money? If not on her, then on a data card or electronic account, surely?
Sorry for my English :]
RO
ESB
ANH
ROTJ
TFA
ROTS
AOTC
TPM
I will add these points:
Plot: Federation were schemed by Palp to blockade Naboo in order for him to use the corruption and greed within the senate to manipulate his election to office as Chancellor. However, you are right. What are the trade federation getting out of it, if discovered they have lost. Sidious obviously promised them a war where their battle droids would be commissioned to a point where the Federation were rich beyond measure - but who would believe this scheme and actually carry it out for a stranger while risking everything?
Maul: I wouldn't say he is evil as such, but I would call him a mute.
The choreography was good, I am not saying that I enjoy it more than ESB, but Vader knew he was battling his son and had no thought of killing Luke - he was confident and was only testing Luke's abilities. The scene in TPM was fast paced because it was 2 experienced Jedi against 1 sith - so it was fast and dramatic - perhaps not as cinematic as TESB.
Battle Droids - totally agree. But I think for the most part it worked.
As for TPM as a whole I agree that it added little to the saga and what it did add, could easily have been the first part of AOTC, rather than its love story dragging on so poorly through most of the movie.
The Phantom Menace title I believe is a jok because the movie itself is the Menace and it takes a post like yours to route it out - therefore it has phantom qualities, lol
Amen bro!
I can vividly remember myself & my other nerdy childhood friends drawn to the electronics section floor like bugs drawn to bug zapper by the lightsaber sounds... then getting run off by the sears salesmen with the same intensity as micheal douglas in "falling down" and retreating to arcade only to do it again and again until we finally got caught... and then playing D&D afterwards.
The least favourite- TFA.
Love all the others, except holiday special, ooh and I love SWTCW too, I think its better than rebels.
Gotcha. Thanks.
It's superior to Rebels. Just like how superior your favorite is to your least.
2. Return of the Jedi
3. Attack of the Clones
4. The Empire Strikes Back
5. Rogue One
6. A New Hope
7. The Force Awakens
8. Revenge of the Sith
Before anyone asks I grew up on the original trilogy, but feel the Prequels (minus Episode 3) were as good if not better films
Why don't you like episode 3?
What do you think makes phantom menace a good movie let alone better than any of the other ones?
Your third favorite movie has the most famous quote of the prequels. SAAAAANNNNDDD