Its funny how many people hate on the prequels but they did do a few things right with them. The light saber duels were awesome the one with Darth Maul being the best out of the prequels. Also they brought star wars back to the theater and into more revalence i think if there had been no prequels we would not have this game or new star wars movies. Or other star wars stuff maybe more books but as some people said here they dont want to read books to understand some things. But people ate them up for the EU when they were published cause people craved more star wars. I am thankful the prequels were a box office sucess and made more star wars come into my life and everyone elses.
I will say the prequels arent great movies at all and only Revenge of the Sith was decent. Also Ewan Mcgregor was a spot light in all the prequels.
These are just thoughts of someone who didnt get to see any star wars till i was a teenager in the 90's so i didnt get the whole rose colored glasses view as when i saw the prequels.
I think the lightsaber duels are one of the worst aspects of the prequels. Theres no emotion or passion. Everyone just performs their highly choreographed moves until somebody is supposed to die. If you were to watch any of the battles without any context, you couldnt learn anything from them. Look at Luke v Vader in Empire. No, they aren't flipping around and acting like fools, but their feelings and emotions are reflected in how they fight. You can tell how nervous Luke is by his super "try-hard" technique while Vader is calm and clearly toying with him.
In ROTJ, you can see Luke using more and more anger in his fighting against Vader. Eventually he isn't using any technique, he's just hacking away and its awesome. You can feel the raw emotion in the scene and the fighting serves a purpose.
Never in the prequels does something like this happen. The fighting is ONLY for spectacle and there's no substance. The closest they get is obi-wan v Anakin and even with all of the emotion we're supposed to feel, its just more over-choreographed, emotionless, boring garbage.
Phantom Menace is the worst offender. Neither Obi-Wan, Maul, or Qui-Gon ever show any emotion with their fighting. At one point, obi-wan gets really ****. His master has just been killed and all he wants is to get at maul. You think "finally, he's going to use some anger in his fighting. He's going to have some emotion in his fighting." But the ray shields go down, and they resume the same monotonous, clearly-rehearsed movements.
For all of its faults, TFA's lightsaber duel was one of the best in the saga. The scene doesn't rely on some extravagant set piece, or use super complicated emotionless choreography. Its raw, its emotional, its real. They're fighting, but their conflict transcends the sabers. Both Kylo's and Rey's fighting styles are brutal and emotional. They aren't using technique or flipping around, they're trying to kill the other person without getting killed themselves.
You lost me at no passion or emotion in the prequel duels. You don't think Obi-Wan seeing some he was close to emotional? You don't see Obi-Wan heartbroken and trying to look away when Anakin was suffering? Tbh, ANH was the worst out of the saga regardless of technology's capabilites at that time.
Then I gave it a shot to endure the whole reading through. I literally burst out laughing when you called TFA duels one of the best in the saga. It was so dull, Rey was again a Mary Sue and beat one of Luke's students with absolutely zero training, it should've been pitch black outside since they were sucking out the entire sun, and it was just made to appeal nostalgia fanboys.
Also, I noticed you showed the Anakin VS Obi-Wan thing and like other prequel haters, you're absolutely ignorant on that subject. Obi-Wan and Anakin has similar lightsaber fighting styles with Anakin's being slightly more offensive and Obi-Wan's being slightly more defensive.
Anakin used form 5 which is what form 3 users used if they perfered a more offensive style of combat but gave up some protection form 3 had to offer. Obi-Wan used form 3 which is what he obviously taught Anakin. If someone's dueling styles are the same, the spinning will eventually end up happening.
The Phantom Menace had emotions in its duel. Obi-Wan saw the only person he was close be slaughtered right in front of him and fed off the dark side to finish Maul off like Anakin did when seeing Obi-Wan be knocked out by Dooku.
And last but not least I'll address yhe flipping thing. Some of the Jedi used form 4 which was an acrobatic form of lightsaber combat such as Yoda and Ashoka. Palpatine flipped around alot because he was a master of all 7 forms and used all 7 to counter the form his opponent was using (ex. Form 2 is Form 3's weakness, Form 3 is Form 7's weakness, ect.).
Emotional things certainly happen to the characters (and ewan mcgregor was the only actor decent enough to show it on his face), but its not reflected in any of their fighting. The fighting itself is dull and repetitive. Sure, i guess they use different techniques but its not spontaneous. Its obvious how rehearsed and planned out all of their movements are.
You mentioned that I'm absolutely ignorant on the subject of lightsaber duels, and you're right. I don't know anything about the "forms" or what particular styles characters use. All I know is how the scene makes me feel, and how I think the characters are feeling. Earlier I mentioned how its difficult to appreciate any aspect of the prequels without any sort of prior knowledge or research and this is a good example. Most people know nothing about the "forms" and know nothing except how a scene makes them feel.
I fail to see how the duel in TFA panders to nostalgia. Yes, rey pulls the saber from the snow like luke, but the duel itself involves two completely new characters whose conflict isn't directly related to any of the preceding films. I also fail to see your logic about the sun being **** into the base (not that it matters). If something as simple and arbitrary as "oh, its not dark enough" is enough to question the practicality of the scene I'd like to defer your attention to the entire prequel trilogy where scenes take place in the most impractical, illogical settings ever animated on a computer.
Its funny how many people hate on the prequels but they did do a few things right with them. The light saber duels were awesome the one with Darth Maul being the best out of the prequels. Also they brought star wars back to the theater and into more revalence i think if there had been no prequels we would not have this game or new star wars movies. Or other star wars stuff maybe more books but as some people said here they dont want to read books to understand some things. But people ate them up for the EU when they were published cause people craved more star wars. I am thankful the prequels were a box office sucess and made more star wars come into my life and everyone elses.
I will say the prequels arent great movies at all and only Revenge of the Sith was decent. Also Ewan Mcgregor was a spot light in all the prequels.
These are just thoughts of someone who didnt get to see any star wars till i was a teenager in the 90's so i didnt get the whole rose colored glasses view as when i saw the prequels.
I think the lightsaber duels are one of the worst aspects of the prequels. Theres no emotion or passion. Everyone just performs their highly choreographed moves until somebody is supposed to die. If you were to watch any of the battles without any context, you couldnt learn anything from them. Look at Luke v Vader in Empire. No, they aren't flipping around and acting like fools, but their feelings and emotions are reflected in how they fight. You can tell how nervous Luke is by his super "try-hard" technique while Vader is calm and clearly toying with him.
In ROTJ, you can see Luke using more and more anger in his fighting against Vader. Eventually he isn't using any technique, he's just hacking away and its awesome. You can feel the raw emotion in the scene and the fighting serves a purpose.
Never in the prequels does something like this happen. The fighting is ONLY for spectacle and there's no substance. The closest they get is obi-wan v Anakin and even with all of the emotion we're supposed to feel, its just more over-choreographed, emotionless, boring garbage.
Phantom Menace is the worst offender. Neither Obi-Wan, Maul, or Qui-Gon ever show any emotion with their fighting. At one point, obi-wan gets really ****. His master has just been killed and all he wants is to get at maul. You think "finally, he's going to use some anger in his fighting. He's going to have some emotion in his fighting." But the ray shields go down, and they resume the same monotonous, clearly-rehearsed movements.
For all of its faults, TFA's lightsaber duel was one of the best in the saga. The scene doesn't rely on some extravagant set piece, or use super complicated emotionless choreography. Its raw, its emotional, its real. They're fighting, but their conflict transcends the sabers. Both Kylo's and Rey's fighting styles are brutal and emotional. They aren't using technique or flipping around, they're trying to kill the other person without getting killed themselves.
You lost me at no passion or emotion in the prequel duels. You don't think Obi-Wan seeing some he was close to emotional? You don't see Obi-Wan heartbroken and trying to look away when Anakin was suffering? Tbh, ANH was the worst out of the saga regardless of technology's capabilites at that time.
Then I gave it a shot to endure the whole reading through. I literally burst out laughing when you called TFA duels one of the best in the saga. It was so dull, Rey was again a Mary Sue and beat one of Luke's students with absolutely zero training, it should've been pitch black outside since they were sucking out the entire sun, and it was just made to appeal nostalgia fanboys.
Also, I noticed you showed the Anakin VS Obi-Wan thing and like other prequel haters, you're absolutely ignorant on that subject. Obi-Wan and Anakin has similar lightsaber fighting styles with Anakin's being slightly more offensive and Obi-Wan's being slightly more defensive.
Anakin used form 5 which is what form 3 users used if they perfered a more offensive style of combat but gave up some protection form 3 had to offer. Obi-Wan used form 3 which is what he obviously taught Anakin. If someone's dueling styles are the same, the spinning will eventually end up happening.
The Phantom Menace had emotions in its duel. Obi-Wan saw the only person he was close be slaughtered right in front of him and fed off the dark side to finish Maul off like Anakin did when seeing Obi-Wan be knocked out by Dooku.
And last but not least I'll address yhe flipping thing. Some of the Jedi used form 4 which was an acrobatic form of lightsaber combat such as Yoda and Ashoka. Palpatine flipped around alot because he was a master of all 7 forms and used all 7 to counter the form his opponent was using (ex. Form 2 is Form 3's weakness, Form 3 is Form 7's weakness, ect.).
Emotional things certainly happen to the characters (and ewan mcgregor was the only actor decent enough to show it on his face), but its not reflected in any of their fighting. The fighting itself is dull and repetitive. Sure, i guess they use different techniques but its not spontaneous. Its obvious how rehearsed and planned out all of their movements are.
You mentioned that I'm absolutely ignorant on the subject of lightsaber duels, and you're right. I don't know anything about the "forms" or what particular styles characters use. All I know is how the scene makes me feel, and how I think the characters are feeling. Earlier I mentioned how its difficult to appreciate any aspect of the prequels without any sort of prior knowledge or research and this is a good example. Most people know nothing about the "forms" and know nothing except how a scene makes them feel.
I fail to see how the duel in TFA panders to nostalgia. Yes, rey pulls the saber from the snow like luke, but the duel itself involves two completely new characters whose conflict isn't directly related to any of the preceding films. I also fail to see your logic about the sun being **** into the base (not that it matters). If something as simple and arbitrary as "oh, its not dark enough" is enough to question the practicality of the scene I'd like to defer your attention to the entire prequel trilogy where scenes take place in the most impractical, illogical settings ever animated on a computer.
I won't lie, prequel duels aren't that interesting if you don't know much about lightsaber combat and what-not. I'll agree with you that Originals had alot more emotion than the prequels did.
TFA is playing with nostalgia because it's not fast paced, very basic lightsaber movements, and in a way identical to the duel in ANH (not the talking or reasoning behind it, just how it's basic).
Its funny how many people hate on the prequels but they did do a few things right with them. The light saber duels were awesome the one with Darth Maul being the best out of the prequels. Also they brought star wars back to the theater and into more revalence i think if there had been no prequels we would not have this game or new star wars movies. Or other star wars stuff maybe more books but as some people said here they dont want to read books to understand some things. But people ate them up for the EU when they were published cause people craved more star wars. I am thankful the prequels were a box office sucess and made more star wars come into my life and everyone elses.
I will say the prequels arent great movies at all and only Revenge of the Sith was decent. Also Ewan Mcgregor was a spot light in all the prequels.
These are just thoughts of someone who didnt get to see any star wars till i was a teenager in the 90's so i didnt get the whole rose colored glasses view as when i saw the prequels.
I think the lightsaber duels are one of the worst aspects of the prequels. Theres no emotion or passion. Everyone just performs their highly choreographed moves until somebody is supposed to die. If you were to watch any of the battles without any context, you couldnt learn anything from them. Look at Luke v Vader in Empire. No, they aren't flipping around and acting like fools, but their feelings and emotions are reflected in how they fight. You can tell how nervous Luke is by his super "try-hard" technique while Vader is calm and clearly toying with him.
In ROTJ, you can see Luke using more and more anger in his fighting against Vader. Eventually he isn't using any technique, he's just hacking away and its awesome. You can feel the raw emotion in the scene and the fighting serves a purpose.
Never in the prequels does something like this happen. The fighting is ONLY for spectacle and there's no substance. The closest they get is obi-wan v Anakin and even with all of the emotion we're supposed to feel, its just more over-choreographed, emotionless, boring garbage.
Phantom Menace is the worst offender. Neither Obi-Wan, Maul, or Qui-Gon ever show any emotion with their fighting. At one point, obi-wan gets really ****. His master has just been killed and all he wants is to get at maul. You think "finally, he's going to use some anger in his fighting. He's going to have some emotion in his fighting." But the ray shields go down, and they resume the same monotonous, clearly-rehearsed movements.
For all of its faults, TFA's lightsaber duel was one of the best in the saga. The scene doesn't rely on some extravagant set piece, or use super complicated emotionless choreography. Its raw, its emotional, its real. They're fighting, but their conflict transcends the sabers. Both Kylo's and Rey's fighting styles are brutal and emotional. They aren't using technique or flipping around, they're trying to kill the other person without getting killed themselves.
You lost me at no passion or emotion in the prequel duels. You don't think Obi-Wan seeing some he was close to emotional? You don't see Obi-Wan heartbroken and trying to look away when Anakin was suffering? Tbh, ANH was the worst out of the saga regardless of technology's capabilites at that time.
Then I gave it a shot to endure the whole reading through. I literally burst out laughing when you called TFA duels one of the best in the saga. It was so dull, Rey was again a Mary Sue and beat one of Luke's students with absolutely zero training, it should've been pitch black outside since they were sucking out the entire sun, and it was just made to appeal nostalgia fanboys.
Also, I noticed you showed the Anakin VS Obi-Wan thing and like other prequel haters, you're absolutely ignorant on that subject. Obi-Wan and Anakin has similar lightsaber fighting styles with Anakin's being slightly more offensive and Obi-Wan's being slightly more defensive.
Anakin used form 5 which is what form 3 users used if they perfered a more offensive style of combat but gave up some protection form 3 had to offer. Obi-Wan used form 3 which is what he obviously taught Anakin. If someone's dueling styles are the same, the spinning will eventually end up happening.
The Phantom Menace had emotions in its duel. Obi-Wan saw the only person he was close be slaughtered right in front of him and fed off the dark side to finish Maul off like Anakin did when seeing Obi-Wan be knocked out by Dooku.
And last but not least I'll address yhe flipping thing. Some of the Jedi used form 4 which was an acrobatic form of lightsaber combat such as Yoda and Ashoka. Palpatine flipped around alot because he was a master of all 7 forms and used all 7 to counter the form his opponent was using (ex. Form 2 is Form 3's weakness, Form 3 is Form 7's weakness, ect.).
Emotional things certainly happen to the characters (and ewan mcgregor was the only actor decent enough to show it on his face), but its not reflected in any of their fighting. The fighting itself is dull and repetitive. Sure, i guess they use different techniques but its not spontaneous. Its obvious how rehearsed and planned out all of their movements are.
You mentioned that I'm absolutely ignorant on the subject of lightsaber duels, and you're right. I don't know anything about the "forms" or what particular styles characters use. All I know is how the scene makes me feel, and how I think the characters are feeling. Earlier I mentioned how its difficult to appreciate any aspect of the prequels without any sort of prior knowledge or research and this is a good example. Most people know nothing about the "forms" and know nothing except how a scene makes them feel.
I fail to see how the duel in TFA panders to nostalgia. Yes, rey pulls the saber from the snow like luke, but the duel itself involves two completely new characters whose conflict isn't directly related to any of the preceding films. I also fail to see your logic about the sun being **** into the base (not that it matters). If something as simple and arbitrary as "oh, its not dark enough" is enough to question the practicality of the scene I'd like to defer your attention to the entire prequel trilogy where scenes take place in the most impractical, illogical settings ever animated on a computer.
I won't lie, prequel duels aren't that interesting if you don't know much about lightsaber combat and what-not. I'll agree with you that Originals had alot more emotion than the prequels did.
TFA is playing with nostalgia because it's not fast paced, very basic lightsaber movements, and in a way identical to the duel in ANH (not the talking or reasoning behind it, just how it's basic).
If the duel in TFA was nostalgic for me, it wasn't because it was "basic" or slow. If anything, Rey reminded me of Luke in ROTJ when he's just hacking away at Vader and using his anger to fuel his power. (BTW, I think that whole scene is my favorite part of any star wars movie)
Its funny how many people hate on the prequels but they did do a few things right with them. The light saber duels were awesome the one with Darth Maul being the best out of the prequels. Also they brought star wars back to the theater and into more revalence i think if there had been no prequels we would not have this game or new star wars movies. Or other star wars stuff maybe more books but as some people said here they dont want to read books to understand some things. But people ate them up for the EU when they were published cause people craved more star wars. I am thankful the prequels were a box office sucess and made more star wars come into my life and everyone elses.
I will say the prequels arent great movies at all and only Revenge of the Sith was decent. Also Ewan Mcgregor was a spot light in all the prequels.
These are just thoughts of someone who didnt get to see any star wars till i was a teenager in the 90's so i didnt get the whole rose colored glasses view as when i saw the prequels.
I think the lightsaber duels are one of the worst aspects of the prequels. Theres no emotion or passion. Everyone just performs their highly choreographed moves until somebody is supposed to die. If you were to watch any of the battles without any context, you couldnt learn anything from them. Look at Luke v Vader in Empire. No, they aren't flipping around and acting like fools, but their feelings and emotions are reflected in how they fight. You can tell how nervous Luke is by his super "try-hard" technique while Vader is calm and clearly toying with him.
In ROTJ, you can see Luke using more and more anger in his fighting against Vader. Eventually he isn't using any technique, he's just hacking away and its awesome. You can feel the raw emotion in the scene and the fighting serves a purpose.
Never in the prequels does something like this happen. The fighting is ONLY for spectacle and there's no substance. The closest they get is obi-wan v Anakin and even with all of the emotion we're supposed to feel, its just more over-choreographed, emotionless, boring garbage.
Phantom Menace is the worst offender. Neither Obi-Wan, Maul, or Qui-Gon ever show any emotion with their fighting. At one point, obi-wan gets really ****. His master has just been killed and all he wants is to get at maul. You think "finally, he's going to use some anger in his fighting. He's going to have some emotion in his fighting." But the ray shields go down, and they resume the same monotonous, clearly-rehearsed movements.
For all of its faults, TFA's lightsaber duel was one of the best in the saga. The scene doesn't rely on some extravagant set piece, or use super complicated emotionless choreography. Its raw, its emotional, its real. They're fighting, but their conflict transcends the sabers. Both Kylo's and Rey's fighting styles are brutal and emotional. They aren't using technique or flipping around, they're trying to kill the other person without getting killed themselves.
You lost me at no passion or emotion in the prequel duels. You don't think Obi-Wan seeing some he was close to emotional? You don't see Obi-Wan heartbroken and trying to look away when Anakin was suffering? Tbh, ANH was the worst out of the saga regardless of technology's capabilites at that time.
Then I gave it a shot to endure the whole reading through. I literally burst out laughing when you called TFA duels one of the best in the saga. It was so dull, Rey was again a Mary Sue and beat one of Luke's students with absolutely zero training, it should've been pitch black outside since they were sucking out the entire sun, and it was just made to appeal nostalgia fanboys.
Also, I noticed you showed the Anakin VS Obi-Wan thing and like other prequel haters, you're absolutely ignorant on that subject. Obi-Wan and Anakin has similar lightsaber fighting styles with Anakin's being slightly more offensive and Obi-Wan's being slightly more defensive.
Anakin used form 5 which is what form 3 users used if they perfered a more offensive style of combat but gave up some protection form 3 had to offer. Obi-Wan used form 3 which is what he obviously taught Anakin. If someone's dueling styles are the same, the spinning will eventually end up happening.
The Phantom Menace had emotions in its duel. Obi-Wan saw the only person he was close be slaughtered right in front of him and fed off the dark side to finish Maul off like Anakin did when seeing Obi-Wan be knocked out by Dooku.
And last but not least I'll address yhe flipping thing. Some of the Jedi used form 4 which was an acrobatic form of lightsaber combat such as Yoda and Ashoka. Palpatine flipped around alot because he was a master of all 7 forms and used all 7 to counter the form his opponent was using (ex. Form 2 is Form 3's weakness, Form 3 is Form 7's weakness, ect.).
Emotional things certainly happen to the characters (and ewan mcgregor was the only actor decent enough to show it on his face), but its not reflected in any of their fighting. The fighting itself is dull and repetitive. Sure, i guess they use different techniques but its not spontaneous. Its obvious how rehearsed and planned out all of their movements are.
You mentioned that I'm absolutely ignorant on the subject of lightsaber duels, and you're right. I don't know anything about the "forms" or what particular styles characters use. All I know is how the scene makes me feel, and how I think the characters are feeling. Earlier I mentioned how its difficult to appreciate any aspect of the prequels without any sort of prior knowledge or research and this is a good example. Most people know nothing about the "forms" and know nothing except how a scene makes them feel.
I fail to see how the duel in TFA panders to nostalgia. Yes, rey pulls the saber from the snow like luke, but the duel itself involves two completely new characters whose conflict isn't directly related to any of the preceding films. I also fail to see your logic about the sun being **** into the base (not that it matters). If something as simple and arbitrary as "oh, its not dark enough" is enough to question the practicality of the scene I'd like to defer your attention to the entire prequel trilogy where scenes take place in the most impractical, illogical settings ever animated on a computer.
I won't lie, prequel duels aren't that interesting if you don't know much about lightsaber combat and what-not. I'll agree with you that Originals had alot more emotion than the prequels did.
TFA is playing with nostalgia because it's not fast paced, very basic lightsaber movements, and in a way identical to the duel in ANH (not the talking or reasoning behind it, just how it's basic).
If the duel in TFA was nostalgic for me, it wasn't because it was "basic" or slow. If anything, Rey reminded me of Luke in ROTJ when he's just hacking away at Vader and using his anger to fuel his power. (BTW, I think that whole scene is my favorite part of any star wars movie)
Its funny how many people hate on the prequels but they did do a few things right with them. The light saber duels were awesome the one with Darth Maul being the best out of the prequels. Also they brought star wars back to the theater and into more revalence i think if there had been no prequels we would not have this game or new star wars movies. Or other star wars stuff maybe more books but as some people said here they dont want to read books to understand some things. But people ate them up for the EU when they were published cause people craved more star wars. I am thankful the prequels were a box office sucess and made more star wars come into my life and everyone elses.
I will say the prequels arent great movies at all and only Revenge of the Sith was decent. Also Ewan Mcgregor was a spot light in all the prequels.
These are just thoughts of someone who didnt get to see any star wars till i was a teenager in the 90's so i didnt get the whole rose colored glasses view as when i saw the prequels.
I think the lightsaber duels are one of the worst aspects of the prequels. Theres no emotion or passion. Everyone just performs their highly choreographed moves until somebody is supposed to die. If you were to watch any of the battles without any context, you couldnt learn anything from them. Look at Luke v Vader in Empire. No, they aren't flipping around and acting like fools, but their feelings and emotions are reflected in how they fight. You can tell how nervous Luke is by his super "try-hard" technique while Vader is calm and clearly toying with him.
In ROTJ, you can see Luke using more and more anger in his fighting against Vader. Eventually he isn't using any technique, he's just hacking away and its awesome. You can feel the raw emotion in the scene and the fighting serves a purpose.
Never in the prequels does something like this happen. The fighting is ONLY for spectacle and there's no substance. The closest they get is obi-wan v Anakin and even with all of the emotion we're supposed to feel, its just more over-choreographed, emotionless, boring garbage.
Phantom Menace is the worst offender. Neither Obi-Wan, Maul, or Qui-Gon ever show any emotion with their fighting. At one point, obi-wan gets really ****. His master has just been killed and all he wants is to get at maul. You think "finally, he's going to use some anger in his fighting. He's going to have some emotion in his fighting." But the ray shields go down, and they resume the same monotonous, clearly-rehearsed movements.
For all of its faults, TFA's lightsaber duel was one of the best in the saga. The scene doesn't rely on some extravagant set piece, or use super complicated emotionless choreography. Its raw, its emotional, its real. They're fighting, but their conflict transcends the sabers. Both Kylo's and Rey's fighting styles are brutal and emotional. They aren't using technique or flipping around, they're trying to kill the other person without getting killed themselves.
You lost me at no passion or emotion in the prequel duels. You don't think Obi-Wan seeing some he was close to emotional? You don't see Obi-Wan heartbroken and trying to look away when Anakin was suffering? Tbh, ANH was the worst out of the saga regardless of technology's capabilites at that time.
Then I gave it a shot to endure the whole reading through. I literally burst out laughing when you called TFA duels one of the best in the saga. It was so dull, Rey was again a Mary Sue and beat one of Luke's students with absolutely zero training, it should've been pitch black outside since they were sucking out the entire sun, and it was just made to appeal nostalgia fanboys.
Also, I noticed you showed the Anakin VS Obi-Wan thing and like other prequel haters, you're absolutely ignorant on that subject. Obi-Wan and Anakin has similar lightsaber fighting styles with Anakin's being slightly more offensive and Obi-Wan's being slightly more defensive.
Anakin used form 5 which is what form 3 users used if they perfered a more offensive style of combat but gave up some protection form 3 had to offer. Obi-Wan used form 3 which is what he obviously taught Anakin. If someone's dueling styles are the same, the spinning will eventually end up happening.
The Phantom Menace had emotions in its duel. Obi-Wan saw the only person he was close be slaughtered right in front of him and fed off the dark side to finish Maul off like Anakin did when seeing Obi-Wan be knocked out by Dooku.
And last but not least I'll address yhe flipping thing. Some of the Jedi used form 4 which was an acrobatic form of lightsaber combat such as Yoda and Ashoka. Palpatine flipped around alot because he was a master of all 7 forms and used all 7 to counter the form his opponent was using (ex. Form 2 is Form 3's weakness, Form 3 is Form 7's weakness, ect.).
Emotional things certainly happen to the characters (and ewan mcgregor was the only actor decent enough to show it on his face), but its not reflected in any of their fighting. The fighting itself is dull and repetitive. Sure, i guess they use different techniques but its not spontaneous. Its obvious how rehearsed and planned out all of their movements are.
You mentioned that I'm absolutely ignorant on the subject of lightsaber duels, and you're right. I don't know anything about the "forms" or what particular styles characters use. All I know is how the scene makes me feel, and how I think the characters are feeling. Earlier I mentioned how its difficult to appreciate any aspect of the prequels without any sort of prior knowledge or research and this is a good example. Most people know nothing about the "forms" and know nothing except how a scene makes them feel.
I fail to see how the duel in TFA panders to nostalgia. Yes, rey pulls the saber from the snow like luke, but the duel itself involves two completely new characters whose conflict isn't directly related to any of the preceding films. I also fail to see your logic about the sun being **** into the base (not that it matters). If something as simple and arbitrary as "oh, its not dark enough" is enough to question the practicality of the scene I'd like to defer your attention to the entire prequel trilogy where scenes take place in the most impractical, illogical settings ever animated on a computer.
I won't lie, prequel duels aren't that interesting if you don't know much about lightsaber combat and what-not. I'll agree with you that Originals had alot more emotion than the prequels did.
TFA is playing with nostalgia because it's not fast paced, very basic lightsaber movements, and in a way identical to the duel in ANH (not the talking or reasoning behind it, just how it's basic).
If the duel in TFA was nostalgic for me, it wasn't because it was "basic" or slow. If anything, Rey reminded me of Luke in ROTJ when he's just hacking away at Vader and using his anger to fuel his power. (BTW, I think that whole scene is my favorite part of any star wars movie)
Please don't compare Luke to Mary Sue
Well if I can't compare her to Luke, then there's no nostalgia employed at all and its quality is based on its own merit.
But on the subject of Rey. Yes, she is too good at everything. After I first saw the movie, that was the first criticism I had. I didn't like that Finn was a red herring and that she was able to free herself from Kylo Ren and the First Order so easily. However, I can't relate to the blistering hatred you and many other people seem to have for her. It seems like every character in Star Wars possesses incredible talents that are rarely developed. In Phantom Menace, Anakin blows up the command ship without ever flying a ship (no, its not like pod-racing), in Empire, Luke uses telekinesis on Hoth without that ability ever being established, and Rey holds her own against Kylo Ren even though she only had experience with a staff.
Its funny how many people hate on the prequels but they did do a few things right with them. The light saber duels were awesome the one with Darth Maul being the best out of the prequels. Also they brought star wars back to the theater and into more revalence i think if there had been no prequels we would not have this game or new star wars movies. Or other star wars stuff maybe more books but as some people said here they dont want to read books to understand some things. But people ate them up for the EU when they were published cause people craved more star wars. I am thankful the prequels were a box office sucess and made more star wars come into my life and everyone elses.
I will say the prequels arent great movies at all and only Revenge of the Sith was decent. Also Ewan Mcgregor was a spot light in all the prequels.
These are just thoughts of someone who didnt get to see any star wars till i was a teenager in the 90's so i didnt get the whole rose colored glasses view as when i saw the prequels.
I think the lightsaber duels are one of the worst aspects of the prequels. Theres no emotion or passion. Everyone just performs their highly choreographed moves until somebody is supposed to die. If you were to watch any of the battles without any context, you couldnt learn anything from them. Look at Luke v Vader in Empire. No, they aren't flipping around and acting like fools, but their feelings and emotions are reflected in how they fight. You can tell how nervous Luke is by his super "try-hard" technique while Vader is calm and clearly toying with him.
In ROTJ, you can see Luke using more and more anger in his fighting against Vader. Eventually he isn't using any technique, he's just hacking away and its awesome. You can feel the raw emotion in the scene and the fighting serves a purpose.
Never in the prequels does something like this happen. The fighting is ONLY for spectacle and there's no substance. The closest they get is obi-wan v Anakin and even with all of the emotion we're supposed to feel, its just more over-choreographed, emotionless, boring garbage.
Phantom Menace is the worst offender. Neither Obi-Wan, Maul, or Qui-Gon ever show any emotion with their fighting. At one point, obi-wan gets really ****. His master has just been killed and all he wants is to get at maul. You think "finally, he's going to use some anger in his fighting. He's going to have some emotion in his fighting." But the ray shields go down, and they resume the same monotonous, clearly-rehearsed movements.
For all of its faults, TFA's lightsaber duel was one of the best in the saga. The scene doesn't rely on some extravagant set piece, or use super complicated emotionless choreography. Its raw, its emotional, its real. They're fighting, but their conflict transcends the sabers. Both Kylo's and Rey's fighting styles are brutal and emotional. They aren't using technique or flipping around, they're trying to kill the other person without getting killed themselves.
You lost me at no passion or emotion in the prequel duels. You don't think Obi-Wan seeing some he was close to emotional? You don't see Obi-Wan heartbroken and trying to look away when Anakin was suffering? Tbh, ANH was the worst out of the saga regardless of technology's capabilites at that time.
Then I gave it a shot to endure the whole reading through. I literally burst out laughing when you called TFA duels one of the best in the saga. It was so dull, Rey was again a Mary Sue and beat one of Luke's students with absolutely zero training, it should've been pitch black outside since they were sucking out the entire sun, and it was just made to appeal nostalgia fanboys.
Also, I noticed you showed the Anakin VS Obi-Wan thing and like other prequel haters, you're absolutely ignorant on that subject. Obi-Wan and Anakin has similar lightsaber fighting styles with Anakin's being slightly more offensive and Obi-Wan's being slightly more defensive.
Anakin used form 5 which is what form 3 users used if they perfered a more offensive style of combat but gave up some protection form 3 had to offer. Obi-Wan used form 3 which is what he obviously taught Anakin. If someone's dueling styles are the same, the spinning will eventually end up happening.
The Phantom Menace had emotions in its duel. Obi-Wan saw the only person he was close be slaughtered right in front of him and fed off the dark side to finish Maul off like Anakin did when seeing Obi-Wan be knocked out by Dooku.
And last but not least I'll address yhe flipping thing. Some of the Jedi used form 4 which was an acrobatic form of lightsaber combat such as Yoda and Ashoka. Palpatine flipped around alot because he was a master of all 7 forms and used all 7 to counter the form his opponent was using (ex. Form 2 is Form 3's weakness, Form 3 is Form 7's weakness, ect.).
Emotional things certainly happen to the characters (and ewan mcgregor was the only actor decent enough to show it on his face), but its not reflected in any of their fighting. The fighting itself is dull and repetitive. Sure, i guess they use different techniques but its not spontaneous. Its obvious how rehearsed and planned out all of their movements are.
You mentioned that I'm absolutely ignorant on the subject of lightsaber duels, and you're right. I don't know anything about the "forms" or what particular styles characters use. All I know is how the scene makes me feel, and how I think the characters are feeling. Earlier I mentioned how its difficult to appreciate any aspect of the prequels without any sort of prior knowledge or research and this is a good example. Most people know nothing about the "forms" and know nothing except how a scene makes them feel.
I fail to see how the duel in TFA panders to nostalgia. Yes, rey pulls the saber from the snow like luke, but the duel itself involves two completely new characters whose conflict isn't directly related to any of the preceding films. I also fail to see your logic about the sun being **** into the base (not that it matters). If something as simple and arbitrary as "oh, its not dark enough" is enough to question the practicality of the scene I'd like to defer your attention to the entire prequel trilogy where scenes take place in the most impractical, illogical settings ever animated on a computer.
I won't lie, prequel duels aren't that interesting if you don't know much about lightsaber combat and what-not. I'll agree with you that Originals had alot more emotion than the prequels did.
TFA is playing with nostalgia because it's not fast paced, very basic lightsaber movements, and in a way identical to the duel in ANH (not the talking or reasoning behind it, just how it's basic).
If the duel in TFA was nostalgic for me, it wasn't because it was "basic" or slow. If anything, Rey reminded me of Luke in ROTJ when he's just hacking away at Vader and using his anger to fuel his power. (BTW, I think that whole scene is my favorite part of any star wars movie)
Please don't compare Luke to Mary Sue
Well if I can't compare her to Luke, then there's no nostalgia employed at all and its quality is based on its own merit.
But on the subject of Rey. Yes, she is too good at everything. After I first saw the movie, that was the first criticism I had. I didn't like that Finn was a red herring and that she was able to free herself from Kylo Ren and the First Order so easily. However, I can't relate to the blistering hatred you and many other people seem to have for her. It seems like every character in Star Wars possesses incredible talents that are rarely developed. In Phantom Menace, Anakin blows up the command ship without ever flying a ship (no, its not like pod-racing), in Empire, Luke uses telekinesis on Hoth without that ability ever being established, and Rey holds her own against Kylo Ren even though she only had experience with a staff.
Glad we agree on something. But by not comparing those two I meant Luke is superior to Rey when it comes to chatacter.
Its funny how many people hate on the prequels but they did do a few things right with them. The light saber duels were awesome the one with Darth Maul being the best out of the prequels. Also they brought star wars back to the theater and into more revalence i think if there had been no prequels we would not have this game or new star wars movies. Or other star wars stuff maybe more books but as some people said here they dont want to read books to understand some things. But people ate them up for the EU when they were published cause people craved more star wars. I am thankful the prequels were a box office sucess and made more star wars come into my life and everyone elses.
I will say the prequels arent great movies at all and only Revenge of the Sith was decent. Also Ewan Mcgregor was a spot light in all the prequels.
These are just thoughts of someone who didnt get to see any star wars till i was a teenager in the 90's so i didnt get the whole rose colored glasses view as when i saw the prequels.
I think the lightsaber duels are one of the worst aspects of the prequels. Theres no emotion or passion. Everyone just performs their highly choreographed moves until somebody is supposed to die. If you were to watch any of the battles without any context, you couldnt learn anything from them. Look at Luke v Vader in Empire. No, they aren't flipping around and acting like fools, but their feelings and emotions are reflected in how they fight. You can tell how nervous Luke is by his super "try-hard" technique while Vader is calm and clearly toying with him.
In ROTJ, you can see Luke using more and more anger in his fighting against Vader. Eventually he isn't using any technique, he's just hacking away and its awesome. You can feel the raw emotion in the scene and the fighting serves a purpose.
Never in the prequels does something like this happen. The fighting is ONLY for spectacle and there's no substance. The closest they get is obi-wan v Anakin and even with all of the emotion we're supposed to feel, its just more over-choreographed, emotionless, boring garbage.
Phantom Menace is the worst offender. Neither Obi-Wan, Maul, or Qui-Gon ever show any emotion with their fighting. At one point, obi-wan gets really ****. His master has just been killed and all he wants is to get at maul. You think "finally, he's going to use some anger in his fighting. He's going to have some emotion in his fighting." But the ray shields go down, and they resume the same monotonous, clearly-rehearsed movements.
For all of its faults, TFA's lightsaber duel was one of the best in the saga. The scene doesn't rely on some extravagant set piece, or use super complicated emotionless choreography. Its raw, its emotional, its real. They're fighting, but their conflict transcends the sabers. Both Kylo's and Rey's fighting styles are brutal and emotional. They aren't using technique or flipping around, they're trying to kill the other person without getting killed themselves.
You lost me at no passion or emotion in the prequel duels. You don't think Obi-Wan seeing some he was close to emotional? You don't see Obi-Wan heartbroken and trying to look away when Anakin was suffering? Tbh, ANH was the worst out of the saga regardless of technology's capabilites at that time.
Then I gave it a shot to endure the whole reading through. I literally burst out laughing when you called TFA duels one of the best in the saga. It was so dull, Rey was again a Mary Sue and beat one of Luke's students with absolutely zero training, it should've been pitch black outside since they were sucking out the entire sun, and it was just made to appeal nostalgia fanboys.
Also, I noticed you showed the Anakin VS Obi-Wan thing and like other prequel haters, you're absolutely ignorant on that subject. Obi-Wan and Anakin has similar lightsaber fighting styles with Anakin's being slightly more offensive and Obi-Wan's being slightly more defensive.
Anakin used form 5 which is what form 3 users used if they perfered a more offensive style of combat but gave up some protection form 3 had to offer. Obi-Wan used form 3 which is what he obviously taught Anakin. If someone's dueling styles are the same, the spinning will eventually end up happening.
The Phantom Menace had emotions in its duel. Obi-Wan saw the only person he was close be slaughtered right in front of him and fed off the dark side to finish Maul off like Anakin did when seeing Obi-Wan be knocked out by Dooku.
And last but not least I'll address yhe flipping thing. Some of the Jedi used form 4 which was an acrobatic form of lightsaber combat such as Yoda and Ashoka. Palpatine flipped around alot because he was a master of all 7 forms and used all 7 to counter the form his opponent was using (ex. Form 2 is Form 3's weakness, Form 3 is Form 7's weakness, ect.).
Emotional things certainly happen to the characters (and ewan mcgregor was the only actor decent enough to show it on his face), but its not reflected in any of their fighting. The fighting itself is dull and repetitive. Sure, i guess they use different techniques but its not spontaneous. Its obvious how rehearsed and planned out all of their movements are.
You mentioned that I'm absolutely ignorant on the subject of lightsaber duels, and you're right. I don't know anything about the "forms" or what particular styles characters use. All I know is how the scene makes me feel, and how I think the characters are feeling. Earlier I mentioned how its difficult to appreciate any aspect of the prequels without any sort of prior knowledge or research and this is a good example. Most people know nothing about the "forms" and know nothing except how a scene makes them feel.
I fail to see how the duel in TFA panders to nostalgia. Yes, rey pulls the saber from the snow like luke, but the duel itself involves two completely new characters whose conflict isn't directly related to any of the preceding films. I also fail to see your logic about the sun being **** into the base (not that it matters). If something as simple and arbitrary as "oh, its not dark enough" is enough to question the practicality of the scene I'd like to defer your attention to the entire prequel trilogy where scenes take place in the most impractical, illogical settings ever animated on a computer.
I won't lie, prequel duels aren't that interesting if you don't know much about lightsaber combat and what-not. I'll agree with you that Originals had alot more emotion than the prequels did.
TFA is playing with nostalgia because it's not fast paced, very basic lightsaber movements, and in a way identical to the duel in ANH (not the talking or reasoning behind it, just how it's basic).
If the duel in TFA was nostalgic for me, it wasn't because it was "basic" or slow. If anything, Rey reminded me of Luke in ROTJ when he's just hacking away at Vader and using his anger to fuel his power. (BTW, I think that whole scene is my favorite part of any star wars movie)
Please don't compare Luke to Mary Sue
Well if I can't compare her to Luke, then there's no nostalgia employed at all and its quality is based on its own merit.
But on the subject of Rey. Yes, she is too good at everything. After I first saw the movie, that was the first criticism I had. I didn't like that Finn was a red herring and that she was able to free herself from Kylo Ren and the First Order so easily. However, I can't relate to the blistering hatred you and many other people seem to have for her. It seems like every character in Star Wars possesses incredible talents that are rarely developed. In Phantom Menace, Anakin blows up the command ship without ever flying a ship (no, its not like pod-racing), in Empire, Luke uses telekinesis on Hoth without that ability ever being established, and Rey holds her own against Kylo Ren even though she only had experience with a staff.
Glad we agree on something. But by not comparing those two I meant Luke is superior to Rey when it comes to chatacter.
I think so to. In a new hope, Luke was a very generic protagonist but it works for the story. He had dreams of becoming his own person and even though he didnt have plans, he wanted to explore which is very easy to relate to. He wasn't destined for greatness like Rey is, he became great through adversity and hard work.
That being said, i do still really like Rey. Kasden and Ridley developed a very passionate, honest, and true character who has lots of potential to grow and change in the next two movies. My only concern is that Lawrence Kasden did not write The Last Jedi and in my mind, he is the only one completely qualified to write Star Wars.
Kenobi didn't go anger on maul because he uses a defensive style..
i seriously dont know how to respond to that. Thats probably the worst excuse for a boring scene ive ever heard. His mentor and teacher was just killed in front of him. Shouldn't he be affected by that? Its hard to relate to a character who isn't affected by the death of a close friend/father figure.
Kenobi didn't go anger on maul because he uses a defensive style..
i seriously dont know how to respond to that. Thats probably the worst excuse for a boring scene ive ever heard. His mentor and teacher was just killed in front of him. Shouldn't he be affected by that? Its hard to relate to a character who isn't affected by the death of a close friend/father figure.
I would assume he is affected by it seeing as he charges at maul and then fights him to the death.
Think about this, has obi-wan ever been one to let his emotions overcome him? From the maul fight, Anakin fight, Vader fight. In all of those fights he doesn't resort to anger or fear. Kenobi is a true jedi and acts in manner. You are comparing Kenobi's Jedi ways (acting calm in his fights) to luke struggling with the dark side (hacking away at vader in Rotj, acting nervous in ESB)
Kenobi didn't go anger on maul because he uses a defensive style..
i seriously dont know how to respond to that. Thats probably the worst excuse for a boring scene ive ever heard. His mentor and teacher was just killed in front of him. Shouldn't he be affected by that? Its hard to relate to a character who isn't affected by the death of a close friend/father figure.
I would assume he is affected by it seeing as he charges at maul and then fights him to the death.
Think about this, has obi-wan ever been one to let his emotions overcome him? From the maul fight, Anakin fight, Vader fight. In all of those fights he doesn't resort to anger or fear. Kenobi is a true jedi and acts in manner. You are comparing Kenobi's Jedi ways (acting calm in his fights) to luke struggling with the dark side (hacking away at vader in Rotj, acting nervous in ESB)
As i've mentioned before, ewan mcgregor is probably the only one in the prequels to effectively show any emotion, and i think that not reflecting any of that emotion in the battles is a poor choice and it alienates me from relating to obi-wan. Obi-wan is definitely a great character (at least in the TV show when he's consistently written) but the person who's most like a father to him was just murdered in front of his eyes and there was nothing he could do. McGregor is clearly really angry before he can battle maul, hes seething. But when they continue their duel, its a little faster paced, but the emotion immediately goes away.
I think theres some validity to your argument about obi-wan being a true jedi who never resorts to anger. But that aspect of his character is NEVER explored until later movies and the TV show. Please point me to any scene in Phantom Menace where obi-wan makes a conscious effort to resist acting out of anger.
Easily the best scene from the Clone Wars (idk if youve seen it) is the scene on Mandalore where maul kills the woman obi-wan is in love with. Hes tempted by the dark side and any other person would give in. Even though hes very close, he doesnt succumb to anger or fear. The difference between that scene and phantom is that we see the conflict in obi-wan. We think about what anakin would do, what luke would do, what we would do and obi-wan proves himself by visibly resisting. This type of internal conflict is NEVER shown in any of the prequels but especially phantom.
Kenobi didn't go anger on maul because he uses a defensive style..
i seriously dont know how to respond to that. Thats probably the worst excuse for a boring scene ive ever heard. His mentor and teacher was just killed in front of him. Shouldn't he be affected by that? Its hard to relate to a character who isn't affected by the death of a close friend/father figure.
I would assume he is affected by it seeing as he charges at maul and then fights him to the death.
Think about this, has obi-wan ever been one to let his emotions overcome him? From the maul fight, Anakin fight, Vader fight. In all of those fights he doesn't resort to anger or fear. Kenobi is a true jedi and acts in manner. You are comparing Kenobi's Jedi ways (acting calm in his fights) to luke struggling with the dark side (hacking away at vader in Rotj, acting nervous in ESB)
As i've mentioned before, ewan mcgregor is probably the only one in the prequels to effectively show any emotion, and i think that not reflecting any of that emotion in the battles is a poor choice and it alienates me from relating to obi-wan. Obi-wan is definitely a great character (at least in the TV show when he's consistently written) but the person who's most like a father to him was just murdered in front of his eyes and there was nothing he could do. McGregor is clearly really angry before he can battle maul, hes seething. But when they continue their duel, its a little faster paced, but the emotion immediately goes away.
I think theres some validity to your argument about obi-wan being a true jedi who never resorts to anger. But that aspect of his character is NEVER explored until later movies and the TV show. Please point me to any scene in Phantom Menace where obi-wan makes a conscious effort to resist acting out of anger.
Easily the best scene from the Clone Wars (idk if youve seen it) is the scene on Mandalore where maul kills the woman obi-wan is in love with. Hes tempted by the dark side and any other person would give in. Even though hes very close, he doesnt succumb to anger or fear. The difference between that scene and phantom is that we see the conflict in obi-wan. We think about what anakin would do, what luke would do, what we would do and obi-wan proves himself by visibly resisting. This type of internal conflict is NEVER shown in any of the prequels but especially phantom.
You basically just danced around the facts. Obi-wan is a Jedi it's implied that he puts effort into resisting acts of anger. That's what the entire Jedi training is about. That's what the entire prequel trilogy is about. It shows Anakin giving in to his emotions and obi-wan doing the opposite.
Also in the clone wars when maul kills dutchess satine, obi-wan is very hurt by this, but he doesn't try and do anything because he's out-numbered, out-matched, and that's not the Jedi way.
In phantom menace obi-wan sees his master get murked and acts out, charging at maul even though he knows he's outmatched. The only reason at that point to 1v1 maul and not try to retreat and get help or alert the council was because he was angry at seeing maul kill qui-gon. So obi-wan gets into a fight and almost gets himself killed, he only won by some last minute thinking and the fact that maul was over confident. This is because obi-wan was still a Padawan at this point. We never see him act this way again.
Luke on the other hand hacking away at Vader OF COURSE we are going to see emotions from that fight. It's a barely trained Jedi vs his own father who just told him he was going to abduct his sister. Luke snapped, but quickly came to realization when he threw his saber to the side.
Rey vs Kylo has these emotions because rey is not a Jedi. Rey even has a voice in her head telling her to "finish him". But she overcomes this and walks away.
Kenobi didn't go anger on maul because he uses a defensive style..
i seriously dont know how to respond to that. Thats probably the worst excuse for a boring scene ive ever heard. His mentor and teacher was just killed in front of him. Shouldn't he be affected by that? Its hard to relate to a character who isn't affected by the death of a close friend/father figure.
I would assume he is affected by it seeing as he charges at maul and then fights him to the death.
Think about this, has obi-wan ever been one to let his emotions overcome him? From the maul fight, Anakin fight, Vader fight. In all of those fights he doesn't resort to anger or fear. Kenobi is a true jedi and acts in manner. You are comparing Kenobi's Jedi ways (acting calm in his fights) to luke struggling with the dark side (hacking away at vader in Rotj, acting nervous in ESB)
As i've mentioned before, ewan mcgregor is probably the only one in the prequels to effectively show any emotion, and i think that not reflecting any of that emotion in the battles is a poor choice and it alienates me from relating to obi-wan. Obi-wan is definitely a great character (at least in the TV show when he's consistently written) but the person who's most like a father to him was just murdered in front of his eyes and there was nothing he could do. McGregor is clearly really angry before he can battle maul, hes seething. But when they continue their duel, its a little faster paced, but the emotion immediately goes away.
I think theres some validity to your argument about obi-wan being a true jedi who never resorts to anger. But that aspect of his character is NEVER explored until later movies and the TV show. Please point me to any scene in Phantom Menace where obi-wan makes a conscious effort to resist acting out of anger.
Easily the best scene from the Clone Wars (idk if youve seen it) is the scene on Mandalore where maul kills the woman obi-wan is in love with. Hes tempted by the dark side and any other person would give in. Even though hes very close, he doesnt succumb to anger or fear. The difference between that scene and phantom is that we see the conflict in obi-wan. We think about what anakin would do, what luke would do, what we would do and obi-wan proves himself by visibly resisting. This type of internal conflict is NEVER shown in any of the prequels but especially phantom.
You basically just danced around the facts. Obi-wan is a Jedi it's implied that he puts effort into resisting acts of anger. That's what the entire Jedi training is about. That's what the entire prequel trilogy is about. It shows Anakin giving in to his emotions and obi-wan doing the opposite.
Also in the clone wars when maul kills dutchess satine, obi-wan is very hurt by this, but he doesn't try and do anything because he's out-numbered, out-matched, and that's not the Jedi way.
In phantom menace obi-wan sees his master get murked and acts out, charging at maul even though he knows he's outmatched. The only reason at that point to 1v1 maul and not try to retreat and get help or alert the council was because he was angry at seeing maul kill qui-gon. So obi-wan gets into a fight and almost gets himself killed, he only won by some last minute thinking and the fact that maul was over confident. This is because obi-wan was still a Padawan at this point. We never see him act this way again.
Luke on the other hand hacking away at Vader OF COURSE we are going to see emotions from that fight. It's a barely trained Jedi vs his own father who just told him he was going to abduct his sister. Luke snapped, but quickly came to realization when he threw his saber to the side.
Rey vs Kylo has these emotions because rey is not a Jedi. Rey even has a voice in her head telling her to "finish him". But she overcomes this and walks away.
Except in the prequels, obi-wan gives into his emotions ALL THE TIME. In episode 2, he impulsively jumps out of Padme's window without knowing if the droid had flown away, if it would blow up on command, or if it would even return to the assassin. In episode 3, he jumps down in front of Grievous and the middle of an entire droid army without considering that Grievous might not be stupid enough to challenge him one-on-one. And he's constantly making snide and taunting remarks. I dont have a problem with him having a personality, but all this doesn't align with the whole "emotionless, boring monk" shtick.
Kenobi didn't go anger on maul because he uses a defensive style..
i seriously dont know how to respond to that. Thats probably the worst excuse for a boring scene ive ever heard. His mentor and teacher was just killed in front of him. Shouldn't he be affected by that? Its hard to relate to a character who isn't affected by the death of a close friend/father figure.
I would assume he is affected by it seeing as he charges at maul and then fights him to the death.
Think about this, has obi-wan ever been one to let his emotions overcome him? From the maul fight, Anakin fight, Vader fight. In all of those fights he doesn't resort to anger or fear. Kenobi is a true jedi and acts in manner. You are comparing Kenobi's Jedi ways (acting calm in his fights) to luke struggling with the dark side (hacking away at vader in Rotj, acting nervous in ESB)
As i've mentioned before, ewan mcgregor is probably the only one in the prequels to effectively show any emotion, and i think that not reflecting any of that emotion in the battles is a poor choice and it alienates me from relating to obi-wan. Obi-wan is definitely a great character (at least in the TV show when he's consistently written) but the person who's most like a father to him was just murdered in front of his eyes and there was nothing he could do. McGregor is clearly really angry before he can battle maul, hes seething. But when they continue their duel, its a little faster paced, but the emotion immediately goes away.
I think theres some validity to your argument about obi-wan being a true jedi who never resorts to anger. But that aspect of his character is NEVER explored until later movies and the TV show. Please point me to any scene in Phantom Menace where obi-wan makes a conscious effort to resist acting out of anger.
Easily the best scene from the Clone Wars (idk if youve seen it) is the scene on Mandalore where maul kills the woman obi-wan is in love with. Hes tempted by the dark side and any other person would give in. Even though hes very close, he doesnt succumb to anger or fear. The difference between that scene and phantom is that we see the conflict in obi-wan. We think about what anakin would do, what luke would do, what we would do and obi-wan proves himself by visibly resisting. This type of internal conflict is NEVER shown in any of the prequels but especially phantom.
You basically just danced around the facts. Obi-wan is a Jedi it's implied that he puts effort into resisting acts of anger. That's what the entire Jedi training is about. That's what the entire prequel trilogy is about. It shows Anakin giving in to his emotions and obi-wan doing the opposite.
Also in the clone wars when maul kills dutchess satine, obi-wan is very hurt by this, but he doesn't try and do anything because he's out-numbered, out-matched, and that's not the Jedi way.
In phantom menace obi-wan sees his master get murked and acts out, charging at maul even though he knows he's outmatched. The only reason at that point to 1v1 maul and not try to retreat and get help or alert the council was because he was angry at seeing maul kill qui-gon. So obi-wan gets into a fight and almost gets himself killed, he only won by some last minute thinking and the fact that maul was over confident. This is because obi-wan was still a Padawan at this point. We never see him act this way again.
Luke on the other hand hacking away at Vader OF COURSE we are going to see emotions from that fight. It's a barely trained Jedi vs his own father who just told him he was going to abduct his sister. Luke snapped, but quickly came to realization when he threw his saber to the side.
Rey vs Kylo has these emotions because rey is not a Jedi. Rey even has a voice in her head telling her to "finish him". But she overcomes this and walks away.
Except in the prequels, obi-wan gives into his emotions ALL THE TIME. In episode 2, he impulsively jumps out of Padme's window without knowing if the droid had flown away, if it would blow up on command, or if it would even return to the assassin. In episode 3, he jumps down in front of Grievous and the middle of an entire droid army without considering that Grievous might not be **** enough to challenge him one-on-one. And he's constantly making snide and taunting remarks. I dont have a problem with him having a personality, but all this doesn't align with the whole "emotionless, boring monk" shtick.
That's Obi-wan's personality, not his emotions. He jumps down on grevious because he knew he could beat him (confidence). And that's exactly what happens. He jumps out the window onto the droid because he knew it was the best way to go about finding who did it (confidence). Obi-wan comes off as confident, cocky, but also humble and loyal. These are his traits not him giving into emotions. We also see this in the OT. When obi-wan tells Luke and han to "leave it to me" while he goes off in 1-man army mode sneaking around the death Star. But it worked. He also says a snarky remark 2 seconds before he dies. That's obi-wan Kenobi.
Kenobi didn't go anger on maul because he uses a defensive style..
i seriously dont know how to respond to that. Thats probably the worst excuse for a boring scene ive ever heard. His mentor and teacher was just killed in front of him. Shouldn't he be affected by that? Its hard to relate to a character who isn't affected by the death of a close friend/father figure.
I would assume he is affected by it seeing as he charges at maul and then fights him to the death.
Think about this, has obi-wan ever been one to let his emotions overcome him? From the maul fight, Anakin fight, Vader fight. In all of those fights he doesn't resort to anger or fear. Kenobi is a true jedi and acts in manner. You are comparing Kenobi's Jedi ways (acting calm in his fights) to luke struggling with the dark side (hacking away at vader in Rotj, acting nervous in ESB)
As i've mentioned before, ewan mcgregor is probably the only one in the prequels to effectively show any emotion, and i think that not reflecting any of that emotion in the battles is a poor choice and it alienates me from relating to obi-wan. Obi-wan is definitely a great character (at least in the TV show when he's consistently written) but the person who's most like a father to him was just murdered in front of his eyes and there was nothing he could do. McGregor is clearly really angry before he can battle maul, hes seething. But when they continue their duel, its a little faster paced, but the emotion immediately goes away.
I think theres some validity to your argument about obi-wan being a true jedi who never resorts to anger. But that aspect of his character is NEVER explored until later movies and the TV show. Please point me to any scene in Phantom Menace where obi-wan makes a conscious effort to resist acting out of anger.
Easily the best scene from the Clone Wars (idk if youve seen it) is the scene on Mandalore where maul kills the woman obi-wan is in love with. Hes tempted by the dark side and any other person would give in. Even though hes very close, he doesnt succumb to anger or fear. The difference between that scene and phantom is that we see the conflict in obi-wan. We think about what anakin would do, what luke would do, what we would do and obi-wan proves himself by visibly resisting. This type of internal conflict is NEVER shown in any of the prequels but especially phantom.
You basically just danced around the facts. Obi-wan is a Jedi it's implied that he puts effort into resisting acts of anger. That's what the entire Jedi training is about. That's what the entire prequel trilogy is about. It shows Anakin giving in to his emotions and obi-wan doing the opposite.
Also in the clone wars when maul kills dutchess satine, obi-wan is very hurt by this, but he doesn't try and do anything because he's out-numbered, out-matched, and that's not the Jedi way.
In phantom menace obi-wan sees his master get murked and acts out, charging at maul even though he knows he's outmatched. The only reason at that point to 1v1 maul and not try to retreat and get help or alert the council was because he was angry at seeing maul kill qui-gon. So obi-wan gets into a fight and almost gets himself killed, he only won by some last minute thinking and the fact that maul was over confident. This is because obi-wan was still a Padawan at this point. We never see him act this way again.
Luke on the other hand hacking away at Vader OF COURSE we are going to see emotions from that fight. It's a barely trained Jedi vs his own father who just told him he was going to abduct his sister. Luke snapped, but quickly came to realization when he threw his saber to the side.
Rey vs Kylo has these emotions because rey is not a Jedi. Rey even has a voice in her head telling her to "finish him". But she overcomes this and walks away.
Except in the prequels, obi-wan gives into his emotions ALL THE TIME. In episode 2, he impulsively jumps out of Padme's window without knowing if the droid had flown away, if it would blow up on command, or if it would even return to the assassin. In episode 3, he jumps down in front of Grievous and the middle of an entire droid army without considering that Grievous might not be **** enough to challenge him one-on-one. And he's constantly making snide and taunting remarks. I dont have a problem with him having a personality, but all this doesn't align with the whole "emotionless, boring monk" shtick.
That's Obi-wan's personality, not his emotions. He jumps down on grevious because he knew he could beat him (confidence). And that's exactly what happens. He jumps out the window onto the droid because he knew it was the best way to go about finding who did it (confidence). Obi-wan comes off as confident, ****, but also humble and loyal. These are his traits not him giving into emotions. We also see this in the OT. When obi-wan tells Luke and han to "leave it to me" while he goes off in 1-man army mode sneaking around the death Star. But it worked. He also says a snarky remark 2 seconds before he dies. That's obi-wan Kenobi.
Look, I think Obi-Wan is a terrific character. But its not until the TV show that he's consistently written. In the show, he makes plans and he thinks things through. Yes, he's ambitious and confident, but it never clouds his judgement. He doesn't attack maul on mandalore because he thought through the consequences of his decision.
There's a difference between confidence and impulsive recklessness. Its not in Obi-Wan's character to not think things through. Thats what Anakin is supposed to do. Wouldn't it make more sense for Anakin to jump through that window, or jump down to confront Grievous without thinking about the consequences? Throughout the entire prequel trilogy, Obi-Wan constantly tells Anakin how reckless he his and how his confidence is going to get him killed.
Kenobi didn't go anger on maul because he uses a defensive style..
i seriously dont know how to respond to that. Thats probably the worst excuse for a boring scene ive ever heard. His mentor and teacher was just killed in front of him. Shouldn't he be affected by that? Its hard to relate to a character who isn't affected by the death of a close friend/father figure.
I would assume he is affected by it seeing as he charges at maul and then fights him to the death.
Think about this, has obi-wan ever been one to let his emotions overcome him? From the maul fight, Anakin fight, Vader fight. In all of those fights he doesn't resort to anger or fear. Kenobi is a true jedi and acts in manner. You are comparing Kenobi's Jedi ways (acting calm in his fights) to luke struggling with the dark side (hacking away at vader in Rotj, acting nervous in ESB)
As i've mentioned before, ewan mcgregor is probably the only one in the prequels to effectively show any emotion, and i think that not reflecting any of that emotion in the battles is a poor choice and it alienates me from relating to obi-wan. Obi-wan is definitely a great character (at least in the TV show when he's consistently written) but the person who's most like a father to him was just murdered in front of his eyes and there was nothing he could do. McGregor is clearly really angry before he can battle maul, hes seething. But when they continue their duel, its a little faster paced, but the emotion immediately goes away.
I think theres some validity to your argument about obi-wan being a true jedi who never resorts to anger. But that aspect of his character is NEVER explored until later movies and the TV show. Please point me to any scene in Phantom Menace where obi-wan makes a conscious effort to resist acting out of anger.
Easily the best scene from the Clone Wars (idk if youve seen it) is the scene on Mandalore where maul kills the woman obi-wan is in love with. Hes tempted by the dark side and any other person would give in. Even though hes very close, he doesnt succumb to anger or fear. The difference between that scene and phantom is that we see the conflict in obi-wan. We think about what anakin would do, what luke would do, what we would do and obi-wan proves himself by visibly resisting. This type of internal conflict is NEVER shown in any of the prequels but especially phantom.
You basically just danced around the facts. Obi-wan is a Jedi it's implied that he puts effort into resisting acts of anger. That's what the entire Jedi training is about. That's what the entire prequel trilogy is about. It shows Anakin giving in to his emotions and obi-wan doing the opposite.
Also in the clone wars when maul kills dutchess satine, obi-wan is very hurt by this, but he doesn't try and do anything because he's out-numbered, out-matched, and that's not the Jedi way.
In phantom menace obi-wan sees his master get murked and acts out, charging at maul even though he knows he's outmatched. The only reason at that point to 1v1 maul and not try to retreat and get help or alert the council was because he was angry at seeing maul kill qui-gon. So obi-wan gets into a fight and almost gets himself killed, he only won by some last minute thinking and the fact that maul was over confident. This is because obi-wan was still a Padawan at this point. We never see him act this way again.
Luke on the other hand hacking away at Vader OF COURSE we are going to see emotions from that fight. It's a barely trained Jedi vs his own father who just told him he was going to abduct his sister. Luke snapped, but quickly came to realization when he threw his saber to the side.
Rey vs Kylo has these emotions because rey is not a Jedi. Rey even has a voice in her head telling her to "finish him". But she overcomes this and walks away.
Except in the prequels, obi-wan gives into his emotions ALL THE TIME. In episode 2, he impulsively jumps out of Padme's window without knowing if the droid had flown away, if it would blow up on command, or if it would even return to the assassin. In episode 3, he jumps down in front of Grievous and the middle of an entire droid army without considering that Grievous might not be **** enough to challenge him one-on-one. And he's constantly making snide and taunting remarks. I dont have a problem with him having a personality, but all this doesn't align with the whole "emotionless, boring monk" shtick.
That's Obi-wan's personality, not his emotions. He jumps down on grevious because he knew he could beat him (confidence). And that's exactly what happens. He jumps out the window onto the droid because he knew it was the best way to go about finding who did it (confidence). Obi-wan comes off as confident, ****, but also humble and loyal. These are his traits not him giving into emotions. We also see this in the OT. When obi-wan tells Luke and han to "leave it to me" while he goes off in 1-man army mode sneaking around the death Star. But it worked. He also says a snarky remark 2 seconds before he dies. That's obi-wan Kenobi.
Look, I think Obi-Wan is a terrific character. But its not until the TV show that he's consistently written. In the show, he makes plans and he thinks things through. Yes, he's ambitious and confident, but it never clouds his judgement. He doesn't attack maul on mandalore because he thought through the consequences of his decision.
There's a difference between confidence and impulsive recklessness. Its not in Obi-Wan's character to not think things through. Thats what Anakin is supposed to do. Wouldn't it make more sense for Anakin to jump through that window, or jump down to confront Grievous without thinking about the consequences? Throughout the entire prequel trilogy, Obi-Wan constantly tells Anakin how reckless he his and how his confidence is going to get him killed.
Once again let me point you to the OG obi-wan from the OT. He solely sneaks around the death Star and confronts Vader knowing the result. He asks luke to come on a journey (deathtrap) with him, etc. That's how Obi-wan's character is written. Also I think you have it backwards. Obi-wan calls Anakin reckless for comedic relief, you see actually obi-wan is contradicting himself. Obi-wan has always been the reckless one in every situation. Anakin even confirms this when he says how many times he has saved obi-wan in rots. And then obi-wan corrects him by subtracting one and saying it doesn't count. Obi-wan sees himself in Anakin, that's why he always telling him not to be so reckless. Basically "don't be like me, like your big brother, learn from my mistakes"
I'm glad the prequels exist because they introduce so many ideas into the star wars universe.
However, I hate watching them. They feel cold and soulless. And not because it's an inherently dark story. Episode 2 especially.
I'm not going to judge TFA yet because it was clearly written with two sequels in mind. I see many possible ways to explain rey's power, and will wait to see whatever is chosen.
Replies
Emotional things certainly happen to the characters (and ewan mcgregor was the only actor decent enough to show it on his face), but its not reflected in any of their fighting. The fighting itself is dull and repetitive. Sure, i guess they use different techniques but its not spontaneous. Its obvious how rehearsed and planned out all of their movements are.
You mentioned that I'm absolutely ignorant on the subject of lightsaber duels, and you're right. I don't know anything about the "forms" or what particular styles characters use. All I know is how the scene makes me feel, and how I think the characters are feeling. Earlier I mentioned how its difficult to appreciate any aspect of the prequels without any sort of prior knowledge or research and this is a good example. Most people know nothing about the "forms" and know nothing except how a scene makes them feel.
I fail to see how the duel in TFA panders to nostalgia. Yes, rey pulls the saber from the snow like luke, but the duel itself involves two completely new characters whose conflict isn't directly related to any of the preceding films. I also fail to see your logic about the sun being **** into the base (not that it matters). If something as simple and arbitrary as "oh, its not dark enough" is enough to question the practicality of the scene I'd like to defer your attention to the entire prequel trilogy where scenes take place in the most impractical, illogical settings ever animated on a computer.
I won't lie, prequel duels aren't that interesting if you don't know much about lightsaber combat and what-not. I'll agree with you that Originals had alot more emotion than the prequels did.
TFA is playing with nostalgia because it's not fast paced, very basic lightsaber movements, and in a way identical to the duel in ANH (not the talking or reasoning behind it, just how it's basic).
If the duel in TFA was nostalgic for me, it wasn't because it was "basic" or slow. If anything, Rey reminded me of Luke in ROTJ when he's just hacking away at Vader and using his anger to fuel his power. (BTW, I think that whole scene is my favorite part of any star wars movie)
Please don't compare Luke to Mary Sue
Well if I can't compare her to Luke, then there's no nostalgia employed at all and its quality is based on its own merit.
But on the subject of Rey. Yes, she is too good at everything. After I first saw the movie, that was the first criticism I had. I didn't like that Finn was a red herring and that she was able to free herself from Kylo Ren and the First Order so easily. However, I can't relate to the blistering hatred you and many other people seem to have for her. It seems like every character in Star Wars possesses incredible talents that are rarely developed. In Phantom Menace, Anakin blows up the command ship without ever flying a ship (no, its not like pod-racing), in Empire, Luke uses telekinesis on Hoth without that ability ever being established, and Rey holds her own against Kylo Ren even though she only had experience with a staff.
Glad we agree on something. But by not comparing those two I meant Luke is superior to Rey when it comes to chatacter.
I think so to. In a new hope, Luke was a very generic protagonist but it works for the story. He had dreams of becoming his own person and even though he didnt have plans, he wanted to explore which is very easy to relate to. He wasn't destined for greatness like Rey is, he became great through adversity and hard work.
That being said, i do still really like Rey. Kasden and Ridley developed a very passionate, honest, and true character who has lots of potential to grow and change in the next two movies. My only concern is that Lawrence Kasden did not write The Last Jedi and in my mind, he is the only one completely qualified to write Star Wars.
i seriously dont know how to respond to that. Thats probably the worst excuse for a boring scene ive ever heard. His mentor and teacher was just killed in front of him. Shouldn't he be affected by that? Its hard to relate to a character who isn't affected by the death of a close friend/father figure.
I would assume he is affected by it seeing as he charges at maul and then fights him to the death.
Think about this, has obi-wan ever been one to let his emotions overcome him? From the maul fight, Anakin fight, Vader fight. In all of those fights he doesn't resort to anger or fear. Kenobi is a true jedi and acts in manner. You are comparing Kenobi's Jedi ways (acting calm in his fights) to luke struggling with the dark side (hacking away at vader in Rotj, acting nervous in ESB)
As i've mentioned before, ewan mcgregor is probably the only one in the prequels to effectively show any emotion, and i think that not reflecting any of that emotion in the battles is a poor choice and it alienates me from relating to obi-wan. Obi-wan is definitely a great character (at least in the TV show when he's consistently written) but the person who's most like a father to him was just murdered in front of his eyes and there was nothing he could do. McGregor is clearly really angry before he can battle maul, hes seething. But when they continue their duel, its a little faster paced, but the emotion immediately goes away.
I think theres some validity to your argument about obi-wan being a true jedi who never resorts to anger. But that aspect of his character is NEVER explored until later movies and the TV show. Please point me to any scene in Phantom Menace where obi-wan makes a conscious effort to resist acting out of anger.
Easily the best scene from the Clone Wars (idk if youve seen it) is the scene on Mandalore where maul kills the woman obi-wan is in love with. Hes tempted by the dark side and any other person would give in. Even though hes very close, he doesnt succumb to anger or fear. The difference between that scene and phantom is that we see the conflict in obi-wan. We think about what anakin would do, what luke would do, what we would do and obi-wan proves himself by visibly resisting. This type of internal conflict is NEVER shown in any of the prequels but especially phantom.
You basically just danced around the facts. Obi-wan is a Jedi it's implied that he puts effort into resisting acts of anger. That's what the entire Jedi training is about. That's what the entire prequel trilogy is about. It shows Anakin giving in to his emotions and obi-wan doing the opposite.
Also in the clone wars when maul kills dutchess satine, obi-wan is very hurt by this, but he doesn't try and do anything because he's out-numbered, out-matched, and that's not the Jedi way.
In phantom menace obi-wan sees his master get murked and acts out, charging at maul even though he knows he's outmatched. The only reason at that point to 1v1 maul and not try to retreat and get help or alert the council was because he was angry at seeing maul kill qui-gon. So obi-wan gets into a fight and almost gets himself killed, he only won by some last minute thinking and the fact that maul was over confident. This is because obi-wan was still a Padawan at this point. We never see him act this way again.
Luke on the other hand hacking away at Vader OF COURSE we are going to see emotions from that fight. It's a barely trained Jedi vs his own father who just told him he was going to abduct his sister. Luke snapped, but quickly came to realization when he threw his saber to the side.
Rey vs Kylo has these emotions because rey is not a Jedi. Rey even has a voice in her head telling her to "finish him". But she overcomes this and walks away.
Except in the prequels, obi-wan gives into his emotions ALL THE TIME. In episode 2, he impulsively jumps out of Padme's window without knowing if the droid had flown away, if it would blow up on command, or if it would even return to the assassin. In episode 3, he jumps down in front of Grievous and the middle of an entire droid army without considering that Grievous might not be stupid enough to challenge him one-on-one. And he's constantly making snide and taunting remarks. I dont have a problem with him having a personality, but all this doesn't align with the whole "emotionless, boring monk" shtick.
That's Obi-wan's personality, not his emotions. He jumps down on grevious because he knew he could beat him (confidence). And that's exactly what happens. He jumps out the window onto the droid because he knew it was the best way to go about finding who did it (confidence). Obi-wan comes off as confident, cocky, but also humble and loyal. These are his traits not him giving into emotions. We also see this in the OT. When obi-wan tells Luke and han to "leave it to me" while he goes off in 1-man army mode sneaking around the death Star. But it worked. He also says a snarky remark 2 seconds before he dies. That's obi-wan Kenobi.
Look, I think Obi-Wan is a terrific character. But its not until the TV show that he's consistently written. In the show, he makes plans and he thinks things through. Yes, he's ambitious and confident, but it never clouds his judgement. He doesn't attack maul on mandalore because he thought through the consequences of his decision.
There's a difference between confidence and impulsive recklessness. Its not in Obi-Wan's character to not think things through. Thats what Anakin is supposed to do. Wouldn't it make more sense for Anakin to jump through that window, or jump down to confront Grievous without thinking about the consequences? Throughout the entire prequel trilogy, Obi-Wan constantly tells Anakin how reckless he his and how his confidence is going to get him killed.
Once again let me point you to the OG obi-wan from the OT. He solely sneaks around the death Star and confronts Vader knowing the result. He asks luke to come on a journey (deathtrap) with him, etc. That's how Obi-wan's character is written. Also I think you have it backwards. Obi-wan calls Anakin reckless for comedic relief, you see actually obi-wan is contradicting himself. Obi-wan has always been the reckless one in every situation. Anakin even confirms this when he says how many times he has saved obi-wan in rots. And then obi-wan corrects him by subtracting one and saying it doesn't count. Obi-wan sees himself in Anakin, that's why he always telling him not to be so reckless. Basically "don't be like me, like your big brother, learn from my mistakes"
However, I hate watching them. They feel cold and soulless. And not because it's an inherently dark story. Episode 2 especially.
I'm not going to judge TFA yet because it was clearly written with two sequels in mind. I see many possible ways to explain rey's power, and will wait to see whatever is chosen.