They have counters!

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Replies

  • Gavstar
    214 posts Member
    Looks like all the Chaze and Wiggs complaining got them toons nerfed in the latest bug fix list. Tomorrow is D-day.

  • And people were saying that this threads are useless :wink:

    But seriously fixing this bugs, not nerfing them, should had happened for a long time, and I doubt that they will cause even one user of Wiggs, Chaze or Krooper (if they exist at all) to renounce using them.
  • tRRRey
    2782 posts Member
    And people were saying that this threads are useless :wink:

    But seriously fixing this bugs, not nerfing them, should had happened for a long time, and I doubt that they will cause even one user of Wiggs, Chaze or Krooper (if they exist at all) to renounce using them.

    I can assure you it won't stop the whining and complaining
    https://swgoh.gg/u/trey 66/
    Make Zader Great Again!
  • Gavstar
    214 posts Member
    And people were saying that this threads are useless :wink:

    But seriously fixing this bugs, not nerfing them, should had happened for a long time, and I doubt that they will cause even one user of Wiggs, Chaze or Krooper (if they exist at all) to renounce using them.

    It's a nerf in my eyes. The ability description was never clear and no clarification until now, plus there was no consistency on how it was applied between Chaze and Wiggs. Anyway, makes (my) battles easier now. Take one of them out and their syngery dies with it.
  • NicWester
    6733 posts Member
    How much more clearer can it be? If one is dead, you don't have them any more, so they shouldn't have the benefit. That's a bug.

    Bugs aren't nerfs.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • Gavstar wrote: »
    And people were saying that this threads are useless :wink:

    But seriously fixing this bugs, not nerfing them, should had happened for a long time, and I doubt that they will cause even one user of Wiggs, Chaze or Krooper (if they exist at all) to renounce using them.

    It's a nerf in my eyes. The ability description was never clear and no clarification until now, plus there was no consistency on how it was applied between Chaze and Wiggs. Anyway, makes (my) battles easier now. Take one of them out and their syngery dies with it.

    Since taking one of them out was usually the problem in the first place it won't change the battles to much.
  • It's a little like this. America has one of the largest armies in the world, if not best (lets not get into it). But because people have found ways to maneuver around it now and again and counter it then it's okay to live in an impoverished third world country with access to nothing.

    That is a lot of hyperbole, I know. But has @Nikoms565 is pointing out, and others, Chaze impoverishes the arena. DN has definitely taken on a solid role in the Arena, but he can basically be slotted in too. I've seen a few Chaze, DN, GK teams. That's A LOT OF ABILITIES and you still can slot in another toon.

    These comps have the abilities of three teams built into them. Meanwhile, Pheonix squadron? Crickets. And this Trooper pass? Nah. Krennic AND Dt are where?

    And, lets be honest, Chaze was released with the ridiculous tournaments -- impossible to get by 99.5% of us for months and Baze is still a Beach to get.... The entire R1 team has bad gamer juju attached to them and little has been done to address it.

    gosh.
    Chirrut is available readily- just farm on fleet shipments. I'm at 85/100 without spending anything except r1 ultimate bundle a long time ago.
    Baze is readily obtainable, i vault got me 90 shards of Baze from chromiums. Or you can just farm him from LS 9-C, he's viable at 3*.
  • Gavstar
    214 posts Member
    NicWester wrote: »
    How much more clearer can it be? If one is dead, you don't have them any more, so they shouldn't have the benefit. That's a bug.

    Bugs aren't nerfs.

    Then technically all leadership abilities are bugs.
  • It's a little like this. America has one of the largest armies in the world, if not best (lets not get into it). But because people have found ways to maneuver around it now and again and counter it then it's okay to live in an impoverished third world country with access to nothing.

    That is a lot of hyperbole, I know. But has @Nikoms565 is pointing out, and others, Chaze impoverishes the arena. DN has definitely taken on a solid role in the Arena, but he can basically be slotted in too. I've seen a few Chaze, DN, GK teams. That's A LOT OF ABILITIES and you still can slot in another toon.

    These comps have the abilities of three teams built into them. Meanwhile, Pheonix squadron? Crickets. And this Trooper pass? Nah. Krennic AND Dt are where?

    And, lets be honest, Chaze was released with the ridiculous tournaments -- impossible to get by 99.5% of us for months and Baze is still a Beach to get.... The entire R1 team has bad gamer juju attached to them and little has been done to address it.

    gosh.
    Chirrut is available readily- just farm on fleet shipments. I'm at 85/100 without spending anything except r1 ultimate bundle a long time ago.
    Baze is readily obtainable, i vault got me 90 shards of Baze from chromiums. Or you can just farm him from LS 9-C, he's viable at 3*.

    But instead of everybody farming ( from fleet, bundles, store whatever) and using them wouldn't be better if they had alternatives as good as them and not counters, so other people besides the long term players actually had the choice of using them or not?
  • CUFCfan616
    279 posts Member
    GA_Phoenix wrote: »
    Waez wrote: »
    The only counter to Chaze is... Chaze.

    I'dont think so!

    An good moddet zKrooper Duo has good cards to deal with Chase in an 2 vs 2 Match because of the bad KI the anti-rebel-synergies and Krennics Leadskill. :wink:

    After Chirut first Turm, DT debuffs and inflicts Healing immunity, then DK uses his AOE calling DT to assist inflicting Daze and Stun on Chirrut. Next Baze maybe is doing minor Damage before Chirrut loses his stun. He is then abbillity blocked or stunned (or both) again by DT. Krennic will inflict buffblock on Baze and from this point on it's game Over for the Rebels

    The main problem ... its all theory, there are no 2 vs 2 Matches and RNG sucks. ^^

    The main problem is speed mods. If they have better speed mods than me (highly probable) I lose. I don't mind that certain toons have an edge. I'd rather it be toons that make sense in the Star Wars universe instead of minor characters from a spinoff film , but that's neither here nor there. The fact that speed in the game is still the overruling stat in the game and they made it worse with mods so that someone with better RNG luck has a serious advantage...
  • Boreas
    508 posts Member
    Jimbob wrote: »
    Boreas wrote: »
    I think people are missing the real problem when they try to address op toons and their counters. Imho, the real problem is people using every character available together in the same team. Boba was redesigned/reworked to counter rebels, but rebel teams started to use Boba too, same with EP, which was designed as anti-rebel. was used by rebel teams. Same goes with Darth Nihilus, under Rex lead, really? or GK with Zaul. The problem stays that some op toons are also used by their counters in the same team, which blocks "counter" status. If faction tags and alignments played a role, counters would work. I guess the devs have seen this and the game is heading towards that direction, R2 zeta which favors only light-side characters is a step towards it. I guess the system in Places of Power event is a perfect solution for it. teams in tune with leaders tags should have high morale ( + 25% to all stats, mixed teams built with the same alignment (light/dark) should go neutral (whatever their stats are) and teams formed by characters from opposite alignment (light/dark) should have low morale (-25% to all stats). That way no one could use (they may if they want, but with a sacrifice) Nihilus with Chaze or Zaul with GK. So there will be balance and counters will be counters. Otherwise people will try to exploit the abilities of characters and no matter what the devs design, counters won't work.

    This sounds sensible in principle but think it would actually make arena less diverse. People would only run whole factions and whichever faction came up trumps at a given time, everyone would use.

    I was thinking quite the opposite in fact, right now there is no diversity at all. What I was saying would give many more opportunities for diversity. Many characters have more than one tag, they could be used in different teams. When I was saying "teams in tune with leaders tags" I was referring to that. If a person used a leader with more than one faction tag, like for ex EP, who has both empire and sith, or QGJ, who has both Jedi and and galactic republic, or Rex who has both Clone trooper and galactic republic, the combinations seem limitless. Even Cup (since he has Galactic Republic tag) can be useful under a Rex lead with Jedi and Clones. Or Lobot leading R2, K2 and Chooper (with another random rebel, possibly Lando if Lobot has a rework and gains some synergy with Lando) can have an advantage against a mixed alignment team. The way it is now is killing the diversity imo.

  • dough
    641 posts Member
    Gavstar wrote: »
    My shard is December 2015, it's competitive. But yeah you go ahead and make up stuff. whatever makes you comfortable.

    Been beating Rex + Chaze team since tournament everyday. Without Zader even. Yeah I drop to top50 time to time. Every team can be beaten.

    My personal persepctive is whats real. Ive dealt with it. You haven't. Try harder. At the moment your just quoting a sad statistic.

    You haven't seen OP yet. Zmaul + SA can wipe out your team within a minute without your input. Chaze doesn't do that on their own.

    December '15 shard yet you describe OP as zMaul + SA? lol my sides are aching.
  • Gavstar
    214 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    dough wrote: »

    December '15 shard yet you describe OP as zMaul + SA? lol my sides are aching.

    Yeah dec '15 shard, ZMaul and SA are problems. Your point? Oh, you have no points to make.

    No worries, but, go ahead, laugh in your little corner, whatever makes you comfortable!
    Have fun solving your Chaze problem.
  • People arguing who between Chaze or Zaul are OP while most of my adversaries in top 10 use both in the same team :)
  • Boreas
    508 posts Member
    People arguing who between Chaze or Zaul are OP while most of my adversaries in top 10 use both in the same team :)

    That's what I was trying to say in fact, the real problem is people using together all the op characters and their counters in the same team to exploit their power. The devs should find a way to avoid this, or else no matter what they do, the counters won't be counters and there will be just one meta squad.

  • Boreas wrote: »
    People arguing who between Chaze or Zaul are OP while most of my adversaries in top 10 use both in the same team :)

    That's what I was trying to say in fact, the real problem is people using together all the op characters and their counters in the same team to exploit their power. The devs should find a way to avoid this, or else no matter what they do, the counters won't be counters and there will be just one meta squad.

    The way they can avoid this is by keeping the power differential between the weaker characters and stronger ones as small as feasible. I understand that some character will always be better than others, but before Palpatine the best characters who could stun were old Daka and dooku. They were both good, but neither of them were THAT much better than CUP, hence CUP could have been useable in certain squads. Right now, there's absolutely no use for CUP since his utility AND base stats are outshined by almost all the recent releases.

    We need the power differential is grow smaller again. This needs to happen either by nerfing characters like chaze/kenobi and zetas like zMaul and zQGJ, or we need to see other characters brought up to the current threshold
  • Boreas
    508 posts Member
    Boreas wrote: »
    People arguing who between Chaze or Zaul are OP while most of my adversaries in top 10 use both in the same team :)

    That's what I was trying to say in fact, the real problem is people using together all the op characters and their counters in the same team to exploit their power. The devs should find a way to avoid this, or else no matter what they do, the counters won't be counters and there will be just one meta squad.

    The way they can avoid this is by keeping the power differential between the weaker characters and stronger ones as small as feasible. I understand that some character will always be better than others, but before Palpatine the best characters who could stun were old Daka and dooku. They were both good, but neither of them were THAT much better than CUP, hence CUP could have been useable in certain squads. Right now, there's absolutely no use for CUP since his utility AND base stats are outshined by almost all the recent releases.

    We need the power differential is grow smaller again. This needs to happen either by nerfing characters like chaze/kenobi and zetas like zMaul and zQGJ, or we need to see other characters brought up to the current threshold

    I definitely do not agree with this, the real problem is people using the counters of op characters in the same team to block the opponents counter value. They should be forced to make choices, not be able to throw in all the op characters in a team, because there will always be better, stronger characters as it is in the SW universe.
  • Jedi_Reach_
    1337 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    Boreas wrote: »
    People arguing who between Chaze or Zaul are OP while most of my adversaries in top 10 use both in the same team :)

    That's what I was trying to say in fact, the real problem is people using together all the op characters and their counters in the same team to exploit their power. The devs should find a way to avoid this, or else no matter what they do, the counters won't be counters and there will be just one meta squad.

    The way they can avoid this is by keeping the power differential between the weaker characters and stronger ones as small as feasible. I understand that some character will always be better than others, but before Palpatine the best characters who could stun were old Daka and dooku. They were both good, but neither of them were THAT much better than CUP, hence CUP could have been useable in certain squads. Right now, there's absolutely no use for CUP since his utility AND base stats are outshined by almost all the recent releases.

    We need the power differential is grow smaller again. This needs to happen either by nerfing characters like chaze/kenobi and zetas like zMaul and zQGJ, or we need to see other characters brought up to the current threshold
    Power creep is the #1 thing working to bring this game down.
  • DarthSalsa
    171 posts Member
    Boreas wrote: »
    People arguing who between Chaze or Zaul are OP while most of my adversaries in top 10 use both in the same team :)

    That's what I was trying to say in fact, the real problem is people using together all the op characters and their counters in the same team to exploit their power. The devs should find a way to avoid this, or else no matter what they do, the counters won't be counters and there will be just one meta squad.

    They should only have synergy with his faction and punish them when they are in other team
  • Boreas wrote: »
    People arguing who between Chaze or Zaul are OP while most of my adversaries in top 10 use both in the same team :)

    That's what I was trying to say in fact, the real problem is people using together all the op characters and their counters in the same team to exploit their power. The devs should find a way to avoid this, or else no matter what they do, the counters won't be counters and there will be just one meta squad.

    The way they can avoid this is by keeping the power differential between the weaker characters and stronger ones as small as feasible. I understand that some character will always be better than others, but before Palpatine the best characters who could stun were old Daka and dooku. They were both good, but neither of them were THAT much better than CUP, hence CUP could have been useable in certain squads. Right now, there's absolutely no use for CUP since his utility AND base stats are outshined by almost all the recent releases.

    We need the power differential is grow smaller again. This needs to happen either by nerfing characters like chaze/kenobi and zetas like zMaul and zQGJ, or we need to see other characters brought up to the current threshold
    Power creep is the #1 thing working to bring this game down.

    Haven't you seen the reactions just for a bug fix that won't impact them as much? Do you realize what would happen if that ever happened?

    Like I said, even if today I finished on 1st place using Zaul, I would be OK if they would remove him completely from the game tomorrow together with Chaze because I honestly think it would make the game better. Yet countless posters who love to use words like "Adapt ", "Tactics","Deep roosters" etc. just thrown a hissy fit just for the perceived slight decrease in performance of some already over the top toons that they use. Apparently this was a to severe blow that even the most adaptable tactician cannot recover even with their deep rosters.
  • Nikoms565
    11784 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    Gavstar wrote: »
    dough wrote: »

    December '15 shard yet you describe OP as zMaul + SA? lol my sides are aching.

    Yeah dec '15 shard, ZMaul and SA are problems.
    Just to weigh in on this. zMaul + SA are easy for a Rex lead team - especially with a maxed GK + Nihilus + R2 + Zylo. However, that same team can't touch a team with maxed Chaze on it. And I know, because I just spent 10 battles running it against both. The Zaul teams get destroyed. The teams with Chaze win - even on defense.

    Sad really - a "legendary" event character and a Heroic AAT character (both 7* G11) can't compete with two unzeta'd Rebels. *sigh*


    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • leef
    13045 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Gavstar wrote: »
    dough wrote: »

    December '15 shard yet you describe OP as zMaul + SA? lol my sides are aching.

    Yeah dec '15 shard, ZMaul and SA are problems.
    Just to weigh in on this. zMaul + SA are easy for a Rex lead team - especially with a maxed GK + Nihilus + R2 + Zylo. However, that same team can't touch a team with maxed Chaze on it. And I know, because I just spent 10 battles running it against both. The Zaul teams get destroyed. The teams with Chaze win - even on defense.

    Sad really - a "legendary" event character and a Heroic AAT character (both 7* G11) can't compete with two unzeta'd Rebels. *sigh*


    i have to disagree. For the last couple of days i've been beating chaze teams with that exact same team. r2 without zeta's.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • Nikoms565
    11784 posts Member
    leef wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Gavstar wrote: »
    dough wrote: »

    December '15 shard yet you describe OP as zMaul + SA? lol my sides are aching.

    Yeah dec '15 shard, ZMaul and SA are problems.
    Just to weigh in on this. zMaul + SA are easy for a Rex lead team - especially with a maxed GK + Nihilus + R2 + Zylo. However, that same team can't touch a team with maxed Chaze on it. And I know, because I just spent 10 battles running it against both. The Zaul teams get destroyed. The teams with Chaze win - even on defense.

    Sad really - a "legendary" event character and a Heroic AAT character (both 7* G11) can't compete with two unzeta'd Rebels. *sigh*


    i have to disagree. For the last couple of days i've been beating chaze teams with that exact same team. r2 without zeta's.

    Lol, well alright then. My experience versus yours I guess. Are you fighting full 7* Chaze teams? Because I haven't been able to beat a single one (fought 4 times and lost every single time).
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • leef
    13045 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    leef wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Gavstar wrote: »
    dough wrote: »

    December '15 shard yet you describe OP as zMaul + SA? lol my sides are aching.

    Yeah dec '15 shard, ZMaul and SA are problems.
    Just to weigh in on this. zMaul + SA are easy for a Rex lead team - especially with a maxed GK + Nihilus + R2 + Zylo. However, that same team can't touch a team with maxed Chaze on it. And I know, because I just spent 10 battles running it against both. The Zaul teams get destroyed. The teams with Chaze win - even on defense.

    Sad really - a "legendary" event character and a Heroic AAT character (both 7* G11) can't compete with two unzeta'd Rebels. *sigh*


    i have to disagree. For the last couple of days i've been beating chaze teams with that exact same team. r2 without zeta's.

    Lol, well alright then. My experience versus yours I guess. Are you fighting full 7* Chaze teams? Because I haven't been able to beat a single one (fought 4 times and lost every single time).

    yes and no, just 1 full 7* line-up, the others aren't quite there yet.
    Save water, drink champagne!
  • AndrewIss
    171 posts Member
    Ok guys, the time for you to convince me chaze is balanced has come.
    As someone pointed out they need "counters".
    As someone else did, toons are good against some and bad against other ones.
    Cool
    So let's consider a standard meta team like rex/chaze/nihilus/gk (or r2, your pick). What toons are they bad against? Not bad as "if you attack them with this and that you may probably win over 50% of the times" but really bad as: if you use that meta team against the supposed counter, the meta team can't win more than 50% of the times.

    That's a real counter
  • AndrewIss
    171 posts Member
    Boreas wrote: »
    People arguing who between Chaze or Zaul are OP while most of my adversaries in top 10 use both in the same team :)

    That's what I was trying to say in fact, the real problem is people using together all the op characters and their counters in the same team to exploit their power. The devs should find a way to avoid this, or else no matter what they do, the counters won't be counters and there will be just one meta squad.

    The way they can avoid this is by keeping the power differential between the weaker characters and stronger ones as small as feasible. I understand that some character will always be better than others, but before Palpatine the best characters who could stun were old Daka and dooku. They were both good, but neither of them were THAT much better than CUP, hence CUP could have been useable in certain squads. Right now, there's absolutely no use for CUP since his utility AND base stats are outshined by almost all the recent releases.

    We need the power differential is grow smaller again. This needs to happen either by nerfing characters like chaze/kenobi and zetas like zMaul and zQGJ, or we need to see other characters brought up to the current threshold
    Power creep is the #1 thing working to bring this game down.

    +2
  • J0K3R
    2286 posts Member
    Closing because thread causing controversy and not sure what the point of this is anyway. Please see forum guidelines for the kinds of topics that are welcome on these foruns
    May the force be with you. It shall free you.
This discussion has been closed.