The real problem is when a player gets to haat levels, they usually just join an already sustaining haat guild. The first clear for a guild means very little, and as such when a player gains the ability to do haat there's no reason for them but to jump ship.
I personally invested in zylo to give my guild a chance, and if they nerf it, refund or not, I could very easily zeta Cody and do just that.
Sad really, it actually counteracts the teamwork and esprit de corps they're looking for...
The real problem is when a player gets to haat levels, they usually just join an already sustaining haat guild. The first clear for a guild means very little, and as such when a player gains the ability to do haat there's no reason for them but to jump ship.
I personally invested in zylo to give my guild a chance, and if they nerf it, refund or not, I could very easily zeta Cody and do just that.
Sad really, it actually counteracts the teamwork and esprit de corps they're looking for...
I kind of agree, you can't expect someone who is HAAT ready to wait 3 months for 49 other members to get their rosters up, ideally you want a guild progressing at generally the same pace.
That's where leaders come in to make spreadsheets and give direction etc
And if some don't keep up and are progressing very very slowly you gotta cut them out they're gonna be holding you all back. Can't have sentiment if you wanna kill the HAAT.
Our guild was able to finish t7 rancor 6 months ago. We are no where close to being able to finish HAAT. Now with the upcoming Zylo nerf. We are set back further yet.
If your members had all started farming the teams/toons 'needed' for the raid 6 months ago, you would have had it on farm by now.
Turnover of members in most 'relatively' casual guilds is too high for this to have worked, if kenobi wasn't so good then this wouldn't have been a problem.. nerf kenobi
22% of teams in the top 100 use GK, who knows how many other players have him but don't have him geared and/or levelled enough to be arena ready.
the ingame leaderboard shows that at least 200 guilds are finishing heroic. that's a lot more than there where 3 months ago.
you may not be in a guild that can clear heroic tank raid. but don't assume that means not many guilds can.
Top teams have an abundance of him because the toon is super good. No justification required-its easy to see how GK is good for almost any team.
200 50 man guilds is a small number in this game with millions of players.
The swgoh.gh data you're using reports 33,000+ accounts used for the top 1-100 calculations. That's 33k for just the top 100 in each shard and only for people using the site...
22% of teams in the top 100 use GK, who knows how many other players have him but don't have him geared and/or levelled enough to be arena ready.
the ingame leaderboard shows that at least 200 guilds are finishing heroic. that's a lot more than there where 3 months ago.
you may not be in a guild that can clear heroic tank raid. but don't assume that means not many guilds can.
Top teams have an abundance of him because the toon is super good. No justification required-its easy to see how GK is good for almost any team.
200 50 man guilds is a small number in this game with millions of players.
The swgoh.gh data you're using reports 33,000+ accounts used for the top 1-100 calculations. That's 33k for just the top 100 in each shard and only for people using the site...
You've also got a significant amount more with GK who don't use him in arena
22% of teams in the top 100 use GK, who knows how many other players have him but don't have him geared and/or levelled enough to be arena ready.
the ingame leaderboard shows that at least 200 guilds are finishing heroic. that's a lot more than there where 3 months ago.
you may not be in a guild that can clear heroic tank raid. but don't assume that means not many guilds can.
Top teams have an abundance of him because the toon is super good. No justification required-its easy to see how GK is good for almost any team.
200 50 man guilds is a small number in this game with millions of players.
The swgoh.gh data you're using reports 33,000+ accounts used for the top 1-100 calculations. That's 33k for just the top 100 in each shard and only for people using the site...
I'm not claiming that 22% of players have him.
my main point was that the above poster pulled the 6% number out of his/her.....
its like any poll, you can estimate that if 22% of polled players have him then assuming 22% of player give or take a few percent have him is probably pretty close
as for the 200 guilds, we have no data telling us how many are finishing, but I can say that at least 200 are because that's as high as the leaderboard goes
My humble little guild has been completing the HAAT raid successfully since the week before Easter. We aren't that strong, but we have a couple of skilled players (certainly not whales), who made a massive difference. We rank 503 in overall guilds currently, and many more guilds have started completing HAAT since we did, so I suspect that the number is getting closer to 1000 by now (although I really have no idea).
Our top guy unlocked GK today, which is very exciting and he will be joined by the rest of us in the coming weeks.
Zylo and Zavage were very helpful the first couple of times, but now I'm not concerned. However, you have to stay focused on farming the right squad combinations for each phase.
It can be done, but it takes a lot of effort and won't be given to you on a platter.
22% of teams in the top 100 use GK, who knows how many other players have him but don't have him geared and/or levelled enough to be arena ready.
the ingame leaderboard shows that at least 200 guilds are finishing heroic. that's a lot more than there where 3 months ago.
you may not be in a guild that can clear heroic tank raid. but don't assume that means not many guilds can.
Top teams have an abundance of him because the toon is super good. No justification required-its easy to see how GK is good for almost any team.
200 50 man guilds is a small number in this game with millions of players.
The swgoh.gh data you're using reports 33,000+ accounts used for the top 1-100 calculations. That's 33k for just the top 100 in each shard and only for people using the site...
I'm not claiming that 22% of players have him.
my main point was that the above poster pulled the 6% number out of his/her.....
its like any poll, you can estimate that if 22% of polled players have him then assuming 22% of player give or take a few percent have him is probably pretty close
as for the 200 guilds, we have no data telling us how many are finishing, but I can say that at least 200 are because that's as high as the leaderboard goes
I understand that. My point is that if only 200 guilds are completing haat, even if they all have GK 6% is VERY generous.,.
My humble little guild has been completing the HAAT raid successfully since the week before Easter. We aren't that strong, but we have a couple of skilled players (certainly not whales), who made a massive difference. We rank 503 in overall guilds currently, and many more guilds have started completing HAAT since we did, so I suspect that the number is getting closer to 1000 by now (although I really have no idea).
Our top guy unlocked GK today, which is very exciting and he will be joined by the rest of us in the coming weeks.
Zylo and Zavage were very helpful the first couple of times, but now I'm not concerned. However, you have to stay focused on farming the right squad combinations for each phase.
It can be done, but it takes a lot of effort and won't be given to you on a platter.
No chance it's as high as 1000. We're consistently ranked in the 800s and we're not there yet.
So basically the number of players with potential to have GK is only slightly higher (40k just over 33k) than the number of players in the top 100 in their shard AND on swgoh.gg.
My humble little guild has been completing the HAAT raid successfully since the week before Easter. We aren't that strong, but we have a couple of skilled players (certainly not whales), who made a massive difference. We rank 503 in overall guilds currently, and many more guilds have started completing HAAT since we did, so I suspect that the number is getting closer to 1000 by now (although I really have no idea).
Our top guy unlocked GK today, which is very exciting and he will be joined by the rest of us in the coming weeks.
Zylo and Zavage were very helpful the first couple of times, but now I'm not concerned. However, you have to stay focused on farming the right squad combinations for each phase.
It can be done, but it takes a lot of effort and won't be given to you on a platter.
No chance it's as high as 1000. We're consistently ranked in the 800s and we're not there yet.
Our guild has been completing haat since beginning of March. Currently ranked 485 in Haat...I would guess minimum 500 guilds completing heroic probably closer too 700.
Please don't nerf the hAAT. If you want Kenobi jump ship, and if you want to stay with weak players then don't expect GK.
That's exactly the problem this thread is trying to address. Anyone that's not yet hAAT ready gets absolutely shafted by all players jumping ship to guilds that can run right through a hAAT raid.
Please don't nerf the hAAT. If you want Kenobi jump ship, and if you want to stay with weak players then don't expect GK.
That's exactly the problem this thread is trying to address. Anyone that's not yet hAAT ready gets absolutely shafted by all players jumping ship to guilds that can run right through a hAAT raid.
Issue is that if hAAT was needed we would need damage mitigation again. And THAT would be ugly. My guild completes hAAT in 1 day or
more.
Zylo/Kenobi Sink can kill p1 in less than a hour. Zody kills p2, viva la resistance kills p4 and Chirpatine/R1/Jedi Counter Teams can make short work of p3.
Please don't nerf the hAAT. If you want Kenobi jump ship, and if you want to stay with weak players then don't expect GK.
That's exactly the problem this thread is trying to address. Anyone that's not yet hAAT ready gets absolutely shafted by all players jumping ship to guilds that can run right through a hAAT raid.
Issue is that if hAAT was needed we would need damage mitigation again. And THAT would be ugly. My guild completes hAAT in 1 day or
more.
Zylo/Kenobi Sink can kill p1 in less than a hour. Zody kills p2, viva la resistance kills p4 and Chirpatine/R1/Jedi Counter Teams can make short work of p3.
I think you meant nerfed where you wrote needed? Either way I wasn't saying it should be nerfed. There just should really be some incentive to actually working through the hAAT with your guild rather than ditching them to find a new one that can already beat it. It's just not a good system and that should really be addressed. That doesn't mean they need to nerf/change either of the raids, they should leave them be (except maybe also address the crap gear rewards from the tank) and find some way to reward loyalty and teamwork. Currently the raids only reward ditching your old guild to find one that can do most of the work for you.
Please don't nerf the hAAT. If you want Kenobi jump ship, and if you want to stay with weak players then don't expect GK.
That's exactly the problem this thread is trying to address. Anyone that's not yet hAAT ready gets absolutely shafted by all players jumping ship to guilds that can run right through a hAAT raid.
Issue is that if hAAT was needed we would need damage mitigation again. And THAT would be ugly. My guild completes hAAT in 1 day or
more.
Zylo/Kenobi Sink can kill p1 in less than a hour. Zody kills p2, viva la resistance kills p4 and Chirpatine/R1/Jedi Counter Teams can make short work of p3.
I think you meant nerfed where you wrote needed? Either way I wasn't saying it should be nerfed. There just should really be some incentive to actually working through the hAAT with your guild rather than ditching them to find a new one that can already beat it. It's just not a good system and that should really be addressed. That doesn't mean they need to nerf/change either of the raids, they should leave them be (except maybe also address the **** gear rewards from the tank) and find some way to reward loyalty and teamwork. Currently the raids only reward ditching your old guild to find one that can do most of the work for you.
Yep my bad typo. Silly autocorrect.
I see your point, but it's impossible to appease everyone. Whales want a challenge, f2p want doable content. IMO, remember Rancor when it was launched? All the top players formed the famous Team Instinct, TeamSkunk etc. megaguilds while the f2p had to make do with t5/6.
Actually it's kinda fun us narrowing this down - our guild recently started to clear HAAT (about 11 days ago was our first, we'll finish off our 4th tomorrow) and we're ranked 633.
I think the point of my opening post is: its really hard to know what the right approach is without the data. Which none of us have.
Some guils will have been demolishing the Rancor raid for months, and have Normal AAT on a fast farm, but be nowhere near beating Heroic. We don't know how many fall into that category, but my point is: if it is too high, that's very bad for the game as a whole.
Likewise, there are some guilds that have managed to use some of the solutions to the raid that the community has discovered to beat Heroic in the last two months. We also don't know how many fall into this category: and it's also bad for the game if that number is too high.
Most posts I see from players are arguing cross purposes because they either fall into one or the other of the two camps. None of us have the data to say who is right. It's very hard for the community to constructively debate this problem. But all of us should be agreed that the desired state is for there to be a steady progression of guilds into Heroic - not flatlined, but not too high either. We can only use our logic to infer which of those two problems is occurring.
From my perspective: there is almost certainly a problem with this part of the game. Hence the significant backlash around the Nute combo being "taken away" despite none of us having had the time to really invest in it. My reasoning inters that we're facing a problem of the first category - not enough guilds are progressing into Heroic.
Does anyone agree with me?
What is concerning is that the recent behavior of the developers is what I would expect to see if the second problem was occurring - too many guilds are progressing into Heroic. But is there anyone who seriously thinks that it's the case?
Actually it's kinda fun us narrowing this down - our guild recently started to clear HAAT (about 11 days ago was our first, we'll finish off our 4th tomorrow) and we're ranked 633.
Ah you're right!
Any higher bidders on rank 633?
633 x 50 = 31,650 players
If we assume there are 1 million active players, that's 3% of all players. Think that's pretty close to my guess in the first post.
These nerfs are quite nice, i have zylo, he is good, but still think it was used to get good eams to greatness. I think they should make heroic way harder so the gap between good and great guild wont get too great.
We have a great guild, just dont have players to throw in reSources trying to make it in areena and haat. And im ok with doing normal, give some chance for others to excel.
And finally we come to the point. If haat is the endgame it shouldnt be pushed further and further out of reach. When someone gets a good team, it is nerfrd, unless it is pain in the a.... who has gunray unless there is a great roster already?
Maybe should nerf all top teams on arena as clearly it aint working, if the same guys keep getting number 1.
This is getting to a point that next raid should be behind a paywall, make it cost real money to even play it, but jedi look to prize, make him op, for haat specially and arena too, and watch the cookie crumble.
Just saying
These nerfs are quite nice, i have zylo, he is good, but still think it was used to get good eams to greatness. I think they should make heroic way harder so the gap between good and great guild wont get too great.
We have a great guild, just dont have players to throw in reSources trying to make it in areena and haat. And im ok with doing normal, give some chance for others to excel.
And finally we come to the point. If haat is the endgame it shouldnt be pushed further and further out of reach. When someone gets a good team, it is nerfrd, unless it is pain in the a.... who has gunray unless there is a great roster already?
Maybe should nerf all top teams on arena as clearly it aint working, if the same guys keep getting number 1.
This is getting to a point that next raid should be behind a paywall, make it cost real money to even play it, but jedi look to prize, make him op, for haat specially and arena too, and watch the cookie crumble.
Just saying
Being able to beat the Rancor raid has nothing to do with being able to beat the HAAT. The Rancor raid was created before the level 85 cap, gear 11 and before a lot of the toons were accessible to FTP players. HAAT is a team effort. The guild needs to realize what is needed to get through which stage. If the members don't get on the same page there is no way for them to complete the HAAT. It takes time and effort. Meaning casual guilds either need to step up their game play or don't get the rewards.
If your members had all started farming the teams/toons 'needed' for the raid 6 months ago, you would have had it on farm by now.
I'm not the person you responded to but the horribly tuned nAAT caused lots of long time players to leave the game. It was just horribad.
Fast track to this date and we have had people come and go, with new players who have "recently" started. I guess this game has no room for them.
Also no heavy hitters will join a guild that's doing normal AAT, so we are in a situation where a handful of old timers try to build rosters that allow us to pass the raid.
Let me say that again: The plan is not to do 2% per player per phase, but with just a few players clear P2, P3 and P4. This the whole guild effort then..?
We don't need to see the data because there is nothing we can do about it. The only people who do need the data are the devs. And they will use it and make adjustments if necessary
Whether you agree with their timescale for fixing things, I think most people who review the forums will agree that the devs will generally change things based on analysis of the data rather than forum sentiment. It took approximately 3 months to adjust the nAAT raid to make it easier despite many forum complaints about its difficulty from day 1 of release.
I'm not sure what people expect with regards to the hAAT. The original META teams for each phase have been known since it was released (pre ZETA's). And these characters need to roughly g10 and equipped with good mods in order to be truly effective.Players should consider researching the best mods for each specific phase and be prepared to switch mods between their characters if needed. Working as a full guild, each member should aim to take out 2% of each phase.
Finally, phase 1 is only 4m HP. Guilds that are ready to complete hAAT should be able to clear phase 1 using other roster characters if necessary, leaving the phase 2-4 teams intact. If not, then your guild is probably not ready.
These nerfs are quite nice, i have zylo, he is good, but still think it was used to get good eams to greatness. I think they should make heroic way harder so the gap between good and great guild wont get too great.
We have a great guild, just dont have players to throw in reSources trying to make it in areena and haat. And im ok with doing normal, give some chance for others to excel.
And finally we come to the point. If haat is the endgame it shouldnt be pushed further and further out of reach. When someone gets a good team, it is nerfrd, unless it is pain in the a.... who has gunray unless there is a great roster already?
Maybe should nerf all top teams on arena as clearly it aint working, if the same guys keep getting number 1.
This is getting to a point that next raid should be behind a paywall, make it cost real money to even play it, but jedi look to prize, make him op, for haat specially and arena too, and watch the cookie crumble.
Just saying
If your members had all started farming the teams/toons 'needed' for the raid 6 months ago, you would have had it on farm by now.
I'm not the person you responded to but the horribly tuned nAAT caused lots of long time players to leave the game. It was just horribad.
Fast track to this date and we have had people come and go, with new players who have "recently" started. I guess this game has no room for them.
Also no heavy hitters will join a guild that's doing normal AAT, so we are in a situation where a handful of old timers try to build rosters that allow us to pass the raid.
Let me say that again: The plan is not to do 2% per player per phase, but with just a few players clear P2, P3 and P4. This the whole guild effort then..?
Replies
I personally invested in zylo to give my guild a chance, and if they nerf it, refund or not, I could very easily zeta Cody and do just that.
Sad really, it actually counteracts the teamwork and esprit de corps they're looking for...
I kind of agree, you can't expect someone who is HAAT ready to wait 3 months for 49 other members to get their rosters up, ideally you want a guild progressing at generally the same pace.
That's where leaders come in to make spreadsheets and give direction etc
And if some don't keep up and are progressing very very slowly you gotta cut them out they're gonna be holding you all back. Can't have sentiment if you wanna kill the HAAT.
Turnover of members in most 'relatively' casual guilds is too high for this to have worked, if kenobi wasn't so good then this wouldn't have been a problem.. nerf kenobi
200 50 man guilds is a small number in this game with millions of players.
The swgoh.gh data you're using reports 33,000+ accounts used for the top 1-100 calculations. That's 33k for just the top 100 in each shard and only for people using the site...
You've also got a significant amount more with GK who don't use him in arena
I'm not claiming that 22% of players have him.
my main point was that the above poster pulled the 6% number out of his/her.....
its like any poll, you can estimate that if 22% of polled players have him then assuming 22% of player give or take a few percent have him is probably pretty close
as for the 200 guilds, we have no data telling us how many are finishing, but I can say that at least 200 are because that's as high as the leaderboard goes
Our top guy unlocked GK today, which is very exciting and he will be joined by the rest of us in the coming weeks.
Zylo and Zavage were very helpful the first couple of times, but now I'm not concerned. However, you have to stay focused on farming the right squad combinations for each phase.
It can be done, but it takes a lot of effort and won't be given to you on a platter.
I understand that. My point is that if only 200 guilds are completing haat, even if they all have GK 6% is VERY generous.,.
No chance it's as high as 1000. We're consistently ranked in the 800s and we're not there yet.
Our guild has been completing haat since beginning of March. Currently ranked 485 in Haat...I would guess minimum 500 guilds completing heroic probably closer too 700.
Issue is that if hAAT was needed we would need damage mitigation again. And THAT would be ugly. My guild completes hAAT in 1 day or
more.
Zylo/Kenobi Sink can kill p1 in less than a hour. Zody kills p2, viva la resistance kills p4 and Chirpatine/R1/Jedi Counter Teams can make short work of p3.
I think you meant nerfed where you wrote needed? Either way I wasn't saying it should be nerfed. There just should really be some incentive to actually working through the hAAT with your guild rather than ditching them to find a new one that can already beat it. It's just not a good system and that should really be addressed. That doesn't mean they need to nerf/change either of the raids, they should leave them be (except maybe also address the crap gear rewards from the tank) and find some way to reward loyalty and teamwork. Currently the raids only reward ditching your old guild to find one that can do most of the work for you.
Yep my bad typo. Silly autocorrect.
I see your point, but it's impossible to appease everyone. Whales want a challenge, f2p want doable content. IMO, remember Rancor when it was launched? All the top players formed the famous Team Instinct, TeamSkunk etc. megaguilds while the f2p had to make do with t5/6.
Some guils will have been demolishing the Rancor raid for months, and have Normal AAT on a fast farm, but be nowhere near beating Heroic. We don't know how many fall into that category, but my point is: if it is too high, that's very bad for the game as a whole.
Likewise, there are some guilds that have managed to use some of the solutions to the raid that the community has discovered to beat Heroic in the last two months. We also don't know how many fall into this category: and it's also bad for the game if that number is too high.
Most posts I see from players are arguing cross purposes because they either fall into one or the other of the two camps. None of us have the data to say who is right. It's very hard for the community to constructively debate this problem. But all of us should be agreed that the desired state is for there to be a steady progression of guilds into Heroic - not flatlined, but not too high either. We can only use our logic to infer which of those two problems is occurring.
From my perspective: there is almost certainly a problem with this part of the game. Hence the significant backlash around the Nute combo being "taken away" despite none of us having had the time to really invest in it. My reasoning inters that we're facing a problem of the first category - not enough guilds are progressing into Heroic.
Does anyone agree with me?
What is concerning is that the recent behavior of the developers is what I would expect to see if the second problem was occurring - too many guilds are progressing into Heroic. But is there anyone who seriously thinks that it's the case?
Ah you're right!
Any higher bidders on rank 633?
633 x 50 = 31,650 players
If we assume there are 1 million active players, that's 3% of all players. Think that's pretty close to my guess in the first post.
How many active players are there? Anyone know?
We have a great guild, just dont have players to throw in reSources trying to make it in areena and haat. And im ok with doing normal, give some chance for others to excel.
And finally we come to the point. If haat is the endgame it shouldnt be pushed further and further out of reach. When someone gets a good team, it is nerfrd, unless it is pain in the a.... who has gunray unless there is a great roster already?
Maybe should nerf all top teams on arena as clearly it aint working, if the same guys keep getting number 1.
This is getting to a point that next raid should be behind a paywall, make it cost real money to even play it, but jedi look to prize, make him op, for haat specially and arena too, and watch the cookie crumble.
Just saying
I'm not the person you responded to but the horribly tuned nAAT caused lots of long time players to leave the game. It was just horribad.
Fast track to this date and we have had people come and go, with new players who have "recently" started. I guess this game has no room for them.
Also no heavy hitters will join a guild that's doing normal AAT, so we are in a situation where a handful of old timers try to build rosters that allow us to pass the raid.
Let me say that again: The plan is not to do 2% per player per phase, but with just a few players clear P2, P3 and P4. This the whole guild effort then..?
Is this really the intent of the developers?
Waaaaaaaah it's too hard!!!! WAAAAAAAAAAAH ... Nerf it.
Or you could just ... Git gud.
Whether you agree with their timescale for fixing things, I think most people who review the forums will agree that the devs will generally change things based on analysis of the data rather than forum sentiment. It took approximately 3 months to adjust the nAAT raid to make it easier despite many forum complaints about its difficulty from day 1 of release.
I'm not sure what people expect with regards to the hAAT. The original META teams for each phase have been known since it was released (pre ZETA's). And these characters need to roughly g10 and equipped with good mods in order to be truly effective.Players should consider researching the best mods for each specific phase and be prepared to switch mods between their characters if needed. Working as a full guild, each member should aim to take out 2% of each phase.
Finally, phase 1 is only 4m HP. Guilds that are ready to complete hAAT should be able to clear phase 1 using other roster characters if necessary, leaving the phase 2-4 teams intact. If not, then your guild is probably not ready.
Go on ... Click it
Hello? Once again JUST DITCH YOUR GUILD.