Droids Vs Sion after new mod updates

Woodroward
3308 posts Member
edited August 2018
So with the changes to mods I envision a very powerful droid raiding team on P2 or P4 of the Sith raid vs Nihilus. I started to hijack someone else's thread with this accidentally but instead made my own thread. Here is the basic gist of it:


I came up with an idea for droids under poggle once 6E mods come out that could have 88 critting for 250k+ on basic with cycle of suffering.

Poggle lead, 88, R2, T3, bb8.
Going 3 offense primaries. 3% offense secondaries on the other 3 mods, 6 flat secondaries and 88's unique that gives him 20% offense for each debuffed enemy along with the 30% offense from poggle lead and 50% offense from offense up

So IG-88 has 2913 physical damage, 270 of which is unaffected by mods, so We can get his panel physical damage up to 2643 * 1.585 (3 offense primaries, 3 % offense secondaries at 6%) + (165 * 6 for flat offense secondaries) +270 damage from current gear for 5450 physical damage in panel. With his unique, presuming 4 debuffed enemies, he will have 1.8 * 5450 physical damage = 9810 physical damage. Counting the poggle lead and offense up will raise that up to 9810 * 1.3 *1.5 = 19,129 physical damage.

His basic attack has a multiplier of 1.9 which will make his unmitigated basic attack hit for somewhere in the neighborhood of 36,343 damage on a non-crit. With the stacking potency from t3 debuffs should be able to be landed quite easily after a bit which could lead to somewhere in the neighborhood of 400% crit damage making his basic crit for around 145k damage before mitigaion, and about 290k damage with cycle of suffering.

The calculations actually involve a very modest amount of debuffs too. They are based around him having a crit damage set and triangle. Along with his +45% crit damage from his unique that puts him at 257% crit damage already, leaving only 143 crit damage to be gained from other sources. T3-M4 gives out 8% crit damage per debuff per character, so that would be 8 debuffs across 4 enemies, well short of what this team should be capable of.

He also gets 50% stacking crit damage every time an enemy dies thanks to being a bounty hunter and can get a crit damage buff from t3 as well. To be fair, you could see numbers far larger than what I have estimated by the end of the run.

Because of the multiplicative effect offense and crit damage have on each other, it may actually be a much larger number going with an offense set and triangle over crit damage as well.

The debuffs this team is capable of dealing out are:
Ability block
defense down
offense down
crit chance down
tenacity down
burning
daze
stun
healing immunity
target lock
expose

Sion is immune to Stun, Ability Block and Daze, These debuffs would only land on the side mobs. Of the single target debuffs, I'd say it's likely that at most 1 healing immunity would be up when 88 takes his turn. So 7 of the 11 can be on all 4 enemies for 28 debuffs, 3 can only be on 3 of them for 37, and 1 can only be on 1 for 38 potential debuffs granting 304% crit damage.

Assuming one entered the match with mobs spawned and the cooldown to call mobs ready to be used, one could potentially see 4 sets of mobs throughout the attempt. 3 out of 4 of these will be killed, and should be prioritized as being killed by 88 if possible. Assuming he does kill them, he will get an extra 50 * 9 = 450 crit damage resulting in a grand total of 257 + 450 + 304 = 1011% crit damage.

If we take that 36,343 damage from earlier and muliply it by 10.11 we get 367427 damage. With cycle of suffering to double that attack, that would be 734855.46 damage on a crit with his basic from IG-88 before damage mitigation.

So... I know what I'm trying once new mods come out!!

Replies

  • I don’t really understand how things stack and if all the math is correct, but wouldn’t you be better off using 88 as the lead. You only lose 5% offense, but you gain more debuffs with DOTs and once you hit his payout you get 25% offense and ignore 50% defense and decrease Sions tenacity. T3 can still supply the offense up.

    In place of Poggle you can then have someone else more useful. Maybe another Bounty Hunter to help hit that payout much quicker. Maybe someone like Jolee you can call IG88 to assist every other turn. Hermit Yoda for more offense and assists.
  • Woodroward
    3308 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    I don’t really understand how things stack and if all the math is correct, but wouldn’t you be better off using 88 as the lead. You only lose 5% offense, but you gain more debuffs with DOTs and once you hit his payout you get 25% offense and ignore 50% defense and decrease Sions tenacity. T3 can still supply the offense up.

    In place of Poggle you can then have someone else more useful. Maybe another Bounty Hunter to help hit that payout much quicker. Maybe someone like Jolee you can call IG88 to assist every other turn. Hermit Yoda for more offense and assists.

    Poggle lead gives 30% offense, and he also gives out offense up which also boosts offense by another 50%. From examining the mechanics on swgoh.gg for all the buffs and abilities involved the offense ones appear to stack multiplicatively in match (although mod % goes off of base offense not counting offense from currently equipped gear pieces) and the crit damage ones are only additive, so offense boosts are more effective than crit damage boosts in general.


    Poggle also gives out speed up, which will roughly increase damage by another 25% but he does this for all droids, not just 88.

    It's also why this would hit even harder with an offense set and triangle over a crit damage set and triangle, but I'm a little too lazy to do that math right now.
    EDIT:
    It's possible that an 88 lead would work if the difference is only 5% on one of the offense multipliers as far as 88's damage alone is concerned, but 88 isn't the only one that stacking all the offense for the multiplying effect will be worth doing on. It's just going to be the most noticeable because he gives himself an extra 80% multiplier and gets the stacking bounty hunter crit damage bonus.

    I don't think subbing in another damage dealer would equal the loss in damage that you'd have on your other droids.
  • Woodroward wrote: »
    I don’t really understand how things stack and if all the math is correct, but wouldn’t you be better off using 88 as the lead. You only lose 5% offense, but you gain more debuffs with DOTs and once you hit his payout you get 25% offense and ignore 50% defense and decrease Sions tenacity. T3 can still supply the offense up.

    In place of Poggle you can then have someone else more useful. Maybe another Bounty Hunter to help hit that payout much quicker. Maybe someone like Jolee you can call IG88 to assist every other turn. Hermit Yoda for more offense and assists.

    Poggle lead gives 30% offense, and he also gives out offense up which also boosts offense by another 50%. From examining the mechanics on swgoh.gg for all the buffs and abilities involved the offense ones appear to stack multiplicatively in match (although mod % goes off of base offense not counting offense from currently equipped gear pieces) and the crit damage ones are only additive, so offense boosts are more effective than crit damage boosts in general.


    Poggle also gives out speed up, which will roughly increase damage by another 25% but he does this for all droids, not just 88.

    It's also why this would hit even harder with an offense set and triangle over a crit damage set and triangle, but I'm a little too lazy to do that math right now.
    EDIT:
    It's possible that an 88 lead would work if the difference is only 5% on one of the offense multipliers as far as 88's damage alone is concerned, but 88 isn't the only one that stacking all the offense for the multiplying effect will be worth doing on. It's just going to be the most noticeable because he gives himself an extra 80% multiplier and gets the stacking bounty hunter crit damage bonus.

    I don't think subbing in another damage dealer would equal the loss in damage that you'd have on your other droids.

    You are right that the other droids wouldn’t hit as hard, but it will be offset some by the extra DoTs. Offense up and speed up from poggle should be irrelevant though because BB-8 will already provide that. I would expect that the extra damage from 88 would well surpass anything lost from the other droids. He’s the one whose going to be doing the massive damage.

    I kind of like Dengar in there instead of Poggle. His AOE can provide more debuffs and help 88 hit His payout quickly. He also has a stun to help subdue one of the minions
  • HK666
    1125 posts Member
    I was thinking of trying an IG lead with T3 myself. Put a thread out about it but didn't get much feedback. Didn't consider Poggle, but I also didn't do all the math you did.

    Just a question, are you thinking this will be worth pulling BB8 from JTR? I haven't really looked into HSTR cuz my guild is far from beating it, but I've heard her team is pretty much the best
  • Woodroward
    3308 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    HK666 wrote: »
    I was thinking of trying an IG lead with T3 myself. Put a thread out about it but didn't get much feedback. Didn't consider Poggle, but I also didn't do all the math you did.

    Just a question, are you thinking this will be worth pulling BB8 from JTR? I haven't really looked into HSTR cuz my guild is far from beating it, but I've heard her team is pretty much the best

    The main reason I included 88 was for the tm gain and the protection regen. I did include the debuffs he can dish out as well. Jawa Engineer could potentially be as useful. There may be more than enough healing from health steal for the team not to need a healer, I'm not sure without actually trying it. If that's the case, then pretty much anyone else who can lay down some debuffs would be a great asset.


    What I do know is that 750k damage is 1.4% of Sion's health. I expect damage mitigation to make it lower, and not to have that many crit damage mutliplers from debuffs in actual play, but half of that seems reasonable, and getting .7% on 1 basic attack in the Sith raid, is very, very good,

    Actually, bearing the damage mitigation in mind, someone that gives armor pen might be a better idea than another debuffer.
  • HK666
    1125 posts Member
    T3 gives 100% def pen with another zeta on his unique
  • HK666 wrote: »
    T3 gives 100% def pen with another zeta on his unique
    100% of his defense penetration, not 100% in general unfortunately.
  • These kinds of multipliers make me want to examine 88 as a character for stand alone in p3 vs. Traya as well.
  • Platzman
    283 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    https://swgoh.gg/db/raids/the-sith-triumvirate/
    The BH bonus CD from killing enemy is 20%, you wrote 50%.

    If he kills add, debuff disappears which means he loses bonus CD from their debuffs. cannot eat cake and have cake at the same time.

    Sion's armor is very important, decreases damage by a very large amount. It is his main mechanic.
    Without Sabine/GMY or similar armor avoiding mechanic you will end up with MUCH lower damage. It is no coincidence that teams without Sabine/GMY struggle to get one million in HSTR.
  • HK666
    1125 posts Member
    @Woodroward

    the zeta reads- t3 has +100% def pen and droid allies gain 100% of t3's def pen

    Now, I don't know if t3 doubles his def pen w/ the zeta or has is own def pen + 100. Probably the former, unless he over penetrates defense
  • Woodroward
    3308 posts Member
    edited August 2018
    HK666 wrote: »
    @Woodroward

    the zeta reads- t3 has +100% def pen and droid allies gain 100% of t3's def pen

    Now, I don't know if t3 doubles his def pen w/ the zeta or has is own def pen + 100. Probably the former, unless he over penetrates defense
    He doubles his defense pen when he gives it out to others. I checked the mechanics.
    Platzman wrote: »
    https://swgoh.gg/db/raids/the-sith-triumvirate/
    The BH bonus CD from killing enemy is 20%, you wrote 50%.

    If he kills add, debuff disappears which means he loses bonus CD from their debuffs. cannot eat cake and have cake at the same time.

    Sion's armor is very important, decreases damage by a very large amount. It is his main mechanic.
    Without Sabine/GMY or similar armor avoiding mechanic you will end up with MUCH lower damage. It is no coincidence that teams without Sabine/GMY struggle to get one million in HSTR.

    Thanks for correcting bounty hunter bonus damage.

    As for debuffs or kills... you need to re-read this thread.


    As for whether or not armor decreasing would be better... well that's the question I asked. You didn't really answer it though. Would some defense pen or decreased armor outweigh 96% crit damage? That's the question. Only way to answer it without testing is to know how much armor Sion has.
    Post edited by Woodroward on
  • Platzman wrote: »

    1080 armor at level 100 is 59.02% damage reduction

    734855.46 * .4098 = 301143.767508

    So somewhere in the neighborhood of 300k before you take the stacking armor into account.
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