Squad Arena is not a 1v1 mode. You're facing player defined teams that are still controlled by AI. Your True Skill 2 rating system would simply be rating against the AI. I question its validity in that model. And really, a 68% predictive accuracy doesn't really seem all that impressive.
It's not really broken. I wouldn't fix anything. I've been in three shard chats. They're more about keeping peace than keeping people out and generally speaking, the people that complain about them are people that can't find a working relationship with others. Just my experience.
This whole thread is predicated on the idea that this is a “problem” that needs to be solved.
CG has made it clear that they don’t see it as one. Much of the player base does not see it as one. And of the players who do see it as a problem, no one can agree on a better way that would actually work or be acceptable to CG.
You’re trying to solve a problem that doesn’t really (officially) exist.
+1. There's no problem here so there's no need to suggest a "solution".
This. It's not a problem from the players' perspective - it's only a minor problem from CG/EA's perspective. Why? Because shard chats allow players to:
1) Get maximum crystal payouts with less threat of being sniped.
2) Be able to not have to refresh to lock-in or fight back and forth with the same people who share a time slot.
3) Not have to be on their phone continuously or at specific times.
The only reason CG/EA has some beef with it, is that they probably give away more "top arena finish" crystals when players cooperate to maximize everyone's rewards.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
The whole concept of shard chats is a bunch of **** and completely goes against the spirit of arena. I refuse to join mine and am attacked so many times in a day when I get close to top 50 it’s insane. The people who want this to continue are the people who are colluding. A fix is long past due for this issue. Share reshuffle and take out personal user names completely
You’re getting attacked so many times by the shard chat when you “get close to top 50”? Most shard chats I hear about wouldn’t even notice you when you’re outside the top 50.
The idea that increasing rewards the more time you spend in a higher rank will decrease the desire for people to wish to cooperate is rather laughable.
This fix only increases the benefit that one gains by cooperating with others and will only increase the need for shard chats.
Besides which, the idea that someone must regularly check on their arena all day to get decent rewards would really increase the amount of time someone has to spend on this game without even adding larger quantities of enticing gameplay.
This idea to remove the need for an outside chat for people to cooperate with is a horrible idea in my opinion.
There is really only one way to remove the need/desire to join a shard chat: put everyone in a shard in an in game chat. Even then the chats that are already set up are likely to just continue.
One way or another, you aren't going to get rid of cooperation between players. And that cooperation is not only not "wrong" or "against the spirit of arena", it is actually unofficially condoned by the makers of this game as evidenced by the section of the forum where people contact each other to find their shards.
The only "real" problem evidenced by shard chats is that they didn't provide any in-game methods of communication between competitors. What fighting tournaments forbid communication between contestants? None that I know of.
The real "need" for these shard chats is the fact that people are combined from all over the globe into 1 shard where they don't even share a payout. So I may be the best player in my payout, but I don't get 1st because Joe Schmoe is still in 1st from his payout 2 hours ago. In what world does it seem just to make someone earn less due to someone who isn't even in the running?
The fact of the matter is that shard chats are there to combat poor arena design. The devs are aware their design has some failings, and that's why they allow the chats to continue.
So any solution that you have for "shard chats" isn't a solution if it just targets the chats. Instead it must target the problems that lead to the need for them to begin with. Making people less likely to be able to get top ranks since everyone wants to now sit in the top 10 all day is going in the opposite direction.
The whole concept of shard chats is a bunch of **** and completely goes against the spirit of arena. I refuse to join mine and am attacked so many times in a day when I get close to top 50 it’s insane. The people who want this to continue are the people who are colluding. A fix is long past due for this issue. Share reshuffle and take out personal user names completely
You’re getting attacked so many times by the shard chat when you “get close to top 50”? Most shard chats I hear about wouldn’t even notice you when you’re outside the top 50.
So much this. Generally you get attacked when you get close to the top 50 more because there's a broader range of players that can hit you. For example, if I'm sitting at 7, there are only four other players that can hit me (8,9,10,11). If I'm sitting at 50, there are, I believe, 10.
I generally find being around the payout fringes anywhere OUTSIDE of the top 20 is the wild wild west. It's just so uncivilized beyond the 20s.
The idea that increasing rewards the more time you spend in a higher rank will decrease the desire for people to wish to cooperate is rather laughable.
This fix only increases the benefit that one gains by cooperating with others and will only increase the need for shard chats.
Besides which, the idea that someone must regularly check on their arena all day to get decent rewards would really increase the amount of time someone has to spend on this game without even adding larger quantities of enticing gameplay.
This idea to remove the need for an outside chat for people to cooperate with is a horrible idea in my opinion.
There is really only one way to remove the need/desire to join a shard chat: put everyone in a shard in an in game chat. Even then the chats that are already set up are likely to just continue.
One way or another, you aren't going to get rid of cooperation between players. And that cooperation is not only not "wrong" or "against the spirit of arena", it is actually unofficially condoned by the makers of this game as evidenced by the section of the forum where people contact each other to find their shards.
The only "real" problem evidenced by shard chats is that they didn't provide any in-game methods of communication between competitors. What fighting tournaments forbid communication between contestants? None that I know of.
The real "need" for these shard chats is the fact that people are combined from all over the globe into 1 shard where they don't even share a payout. So I may be the best player in my payout, but I don't get 1st because Joe Schmoe is still in 1st from his payout 2 hours ago. In what world does it seem just to make someone earn less due to someone who isn't even in the running?
The fact of the matter is that shard chats are there to combat poor arena design. The devs are aware their design has some failings, and that's why they allow the chats to continue.
So any solution that you have for "shard chats" isn't a solution if it just targets the chats. Instead it must target the problems that lead to the need for them to begin with. Making people less likely to be able to get top ranks since everyone wants to now sit in the top 10 all day is going in the opposite direction.
I see that you didn't see my revised idea further down. Which addresses literally everything you said and would once again eliminate shard chats which are directly in violation of the spirit of a 1v1 mode. Shard chats promote collusion against players that don't want to follow some arbitrary rules set my who ever created this group in the first place. Some shard chats have outlandish rules while some are laid back. Should someone be punished because they happen to be in a shard with the Shard chat of stalin rules wise? Or should someone be punished because they don't want to take the time to check in a chat if they are allowed to attack bob the builder when they have time to get on?
People say oh no don't climb at certain times if it isn't your pay out. Why should you climb when you want to? Why should you be put at a disadvantage in a 1v1 game mode because 40 people got together and labeled you a hostile?
Third why should joe schmoe even give up his number 1 position if he enjoys staying at number one just so every tom **** and sally can get a certain pay out? Life isn't fair this is competition. Welcome to the real world.
The whole concept of shard chats is a bunch of **** and completely goes against the spirit of arena. I refuse to join mine and am attacked so many times in a day when I get close to top 50 it’s insane. The people who want this to continue are the people who are colluding. A fix is long past due for this issue. Share reshuffle and take out personal user names completely
You’re getting attacked so many times by the shard chat when you “get close to top 50”? Most shard chats I hear about wouldn’t even notice you when you’re outside the top 50.
So much this. Generally you get attacked when you get close to the top 50 more because there's a broader range of players that can hit you. For example, if I'm sitting at 7, there are only four other players that can hit me (8,9,10,11). If I'm sitting at 50, there are, I believe, 10.
I generally find being around the payout fringes anywhere OUTSIDE of the top 20 is the wild wild west. It's just so uncivilized beyond the 20s.
Yep I agree. Our chat only worries about people who are regularly in the top 20. If you can't easily climb out of the top 100 to the top 50 then you aren't running a top team. Most likely the reason a player is hit a lot in the top 50 is because they have a sub par team that can win on offense but is an easy target on defense.
On those occasions I fall that far, I notice that the teams in the 50-100 range are poorly modded and easy to beat compared to those in the top 20 or top 10. So if you have one of those teams, you'll be an easy target if you get into the top 50 or top 20.
The idea that increasing rewards the more time you spend in a higher rank will decrease the desire for people to wish to cooperate is rather laughable.
This fix only increases the benefit that one gains by cooperating with others and will only increase the need for shard chats.
Besides which, the idea that someone must regularly check on their arena all day to get decent rewards would really increase the amount of time someone has to spend on this game without even adding larger quantities of enticing gameplay.
This idea to remove the need for an outside chat for people to cooperate with is a horrible idea in my opinion.
There is really only one way to remove the need/desire to join a shard chat: put everyone in a shard in an in game chat. Even then the chats that are already set up are likely to just continue.
One way or another, you aren't going to get rid of cooperation between players. And that cooperation is not only not "wrong" or "against the spirit of arena", it is actually unofficially condoned by the makers of this game as evidenced by the section of the forum where people contact each other to find their shards.
The only "real" problem evidenced by shard chats is that they didn't provide any in-game methods of communication between competitors. What fighting tournaments forbid communication between contestants? None that I know of.
The real "need" for these shard chats is the fact that people are combined from all over the globe into 1 shard where they don't even share a payout. So I may be the best player in my payout, but I don't get 1st because Joe Schmoe is still in 1st from his payout 2 hours ago. In what world does it seem just to make someone earn less due to someone who isn't even in the running?
The fact of the matter is that shard chats are there to combat poor arena design. The devs are aware their design has some failings, and that's why they allow the chats to continue.
So any solution that you have for "shard chats" isn't a solution if it just targets the chats. Instead it must target the problems that lead to the need for them to begin with. Making people less likely to be able to get top ranks since everyone wants to now sit in the top 10 all day is going in the opposite direction.
I see that you didn't see my revised idea further down. Which addresses literally everything you said and would once again eliminate shard chats which are directly in violation of the spirit of a 1v1 mode. Shard chats promote collusion against players that don't want to follow some arbitrary rules set my who ever created this group in the first place. Some shard chats have outlandish rules while some are laid back. Should someone be punished because they happen to be in a shard with the Shard chat of stalin rules wise? Or should someone be punished because they don't want to take the time to check in a chat if they are allowed to attack bob the builder when they have time to get on?
People say oh no don't climb at certain times if it isn't your pay out. Why should you climb when you want to? Why should you be put at a disadvantage in a 1v1 game mode because 40 people got together and labeled you a hostile?
Third why should joe schmoe even give up his number 1 position if he enjoys staying at number one just so every tom **** and sally can get a certain pay out? Life isn't fair this is competition. Welcome to the real world.
Shard chats are not in direct violation of a 1v1 mode, that is an invalid point. Firstly, what competitions forbid communication between the combatants? None, that's how many. This is the actual point of a shard chat: communication. You don't want to talk to the people in your shard? That's your right, but saying that communication is against the spirit is not a true statement.
As for cooperation, it MAY be against the spirit of a bracket style competition like this, but if the people you are cooperating with are not actually competing against you (have a different payout), then it is rather disengenuous to think of it is malicious at all, let alone collusion.
Your other idea involves constant shard shuffling, and basically a whole redesign of the squad arena system, something that isn't likely to ever happen. You want to get rid of shard chats? The way to do so is to only put people in a shard that share a payout and stick them all in a chat together to begin with. Now this comes with a number of drawbacks: Can't really play with players around the globe anymore. Shards will take longer to fill up (though the size would be decreased obviously), so the levels of progression between the first members of a shard and the final members will be farther apart as well.
I think you may be able to find an answer to your dilemma, but first you must recognize that shard chats are not the problem, but rather a symptom of the problem.
Life isn't fair this is competition. Welcome to the real world.
Wait, what? hahah
It's a 1v1 competition. People that cry about oh its pay to win ok that makes sense you cant beat a whale however that's part of the advantage of pay to win. IF you beat said person well then even more bragging rights or under the systems I purposed that would give you more "points" towards your rating. Vs oh no this guy keeps beating me its not fair lets go get 10 other people and collude to beat this guy so I'm guaranteed to hit my pay out.
I see the usually suspects defending their position on cooperating I mean collusion l mean shard chat cooperative can’t we all agree it is sad but a necessary evil. Sign a non colluder
I see the usually suspects defending their position on cooperating I mean collusion l mean shard chat cooperative can’t we all agree it is sad but a necessary evil. Sign a non colluder
I mean I don't think it is a necessary evil. I think a couple changes could entirely eliminate the issue.
4 seconds....just 4 seconds. That is the prescise amount of time it took to tap the screen at the end of a battle, pick my next opponent, and enter into the next fight. Should have been a simple and smooth transition but no sorry we need to play the "you're not in our chat so we can't allow you into the top 10 even though there are only 5 players with your payout time" game. Nevermind that I have a gentleman's agreement with those 5 to not snipe them and have held to that for several months. It is this sort of mentality and approach that ruins the initial spirit of chats and why I believe EA/CG should seriously consider shuffling shards every so often
4 seconds....just 4 seconds. That is the prescise amount of time it took to tap the screen at the end of a battle, pick my next opponent, and enter into the next fight. Should have been a simple and smooth transition but no sorry we need to play the "you're not in our chat so we can't allow you into the top 10 even though there are only 5 players with your payout time" game. Nevermind that I have a gentleman's agreement with those 5 to not snipe them and have held to that for several months. It is this sort of mentality and approach that ruins the initial spirit of chats and why I believe EA/CG should seriously consider shuffling shards every so often
This x1000 shard chats are cancer
Shard chats are mostly beneficial. Some people have this problem with talking to others. That's their issue. The shard chat isn't the issue and never has been.
No communication issues here. As stated there is an agreement in place that my payout mates are cool with. It's the chat leadership that doesn't like it so they chain attack to ensure those outside the chat stay out of the top 10. In this instance, yes it is the chat that is the problem as they are attempting to dictate payouts.
Which is exactly my point. If there's one group doing this statistically there's likely 100 groups doing that. Which is a major problem
No communication issues here. As stated there is an agreement in place that my payout mates are cool with. It's the chat leadership that doesn't like it so they chain attack to ensure those outside the chat stay out of the top 10. In this instance, yes it is the chat that is the problem as they are attempting to dictate payouts.
Which is exactly my point. If there's one group doing this statistically there's likely 100 groups doing that. Which is a major problem
100 out of how many, statistically speaking?
More to the point, what's your statistically verified percentage of shards that do this which leads you to 100 groups doing it if one is, statistically speaking?
No communication issues here. As stated there is an agreement in place that my payout mates are cool with. It's the chat leadership that doesn't like it so they chain attack to ensure those outside the chat stay out of the top 10. In this instance, yes it is the chat that is the problem as they are attempting to dictate payouts.
Which is exactly my point. If there's one group doing this statistically there's likely 100 groups doing that. Which is a major problem
100 out of how many, statistically speaking?
More to the point, what's your statistically verified percentage of shards that do this which leads you to 100 groups doing it if one is, statistically speaking?
No communication issues here. As stated there is an agreement in place that my payout mates are cool with. It's the chat leadership that doesn't like it so they chain attack to ensure those outside the chat stay out of the top 10. In this instance, yes it is the chat that is the problem as they are attempting to dictate payouts.
Sounds like a communication issue to me. People don't want to trust anyone they can't communicate with. You're talking to your payout mates, but you aren't talking to the guys causing you problems.
It’s a never ending debate. It’s easily fixable if CG wanted to do it. The fact is they don’t. I have a hard time believing that anyone who has directly seen the toxicity of shard chats would support their existance. I’ve literally seen it drive people from the game. I’ve seen it drive people to cheat to be able to get past it and get banned. It’s terrible game design, but it’s not going anywhere
No communication issues here. As stated there is an agreement in place that my payout mates are cool with. It's the chat leadership that doesn't like it so they chain attack to ensure those outside the chat stay out of the top 10. In this instance, yes it is the chat that is the problem as they are attempting to dictate payouts.
Sounds like a communication issue to me. People don't want to trust anyone they can't communicate with. You're talking to your payout mates, but you aren't talking to the guys causing you problems.
It's not the chat that's the issue.
The chat leadership told the group that I was in contact with that it was not alright. The chat is the issue.....
So someone other than the people you are in contact with is the problem... because you can't/don't talk to them. Sounds like a communication problem to me, not an issue with there being a chat.
Not joining the chat is saying: "I don't want to talk to you". Why should you expect people to respect you if you are telling them you don't want to talk to them?
So I reiterate: Some people don't like to communicate, and that's their issue. It isn't the chat that's the issue.
Replies
It's not really broken. I wouldn't fix anything. I've been in three shard chats. They're more about keeping peace than keeping people out and generally speaking, the people that complain about them are people that can't find a working relationship with others. Just my experience.
This. It's not a problem from the players' perspective - it's only a minor problem from CG/EA's perspective. Why? Because shard chats allow players to:
1) Get maximum crystal payouts with less threat of being sniped.
2) Be able to not have to refresh to lock-in or fight back and forth with the same people who share a time slot.
3) Not have to be on their phone continuously or at specific times.
The only reason CG/EA has some beef with it, is that they probably give away more "top arena finish" crystals when players cooperate to maximize everyone's rewards.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
You’re getting attacked so many times by the shard chat when you “get close to top 50”? Most shard chats I hear about wouldn’t even notice you when you’re outside the top 50.
This fix only increases the benefit that one gains by cooperating with others and will only increase the need for shard chats.
Besides which, the idea that someone must regularly check on their arena all day to get decent rewards would really increase the amount of time someone has to spend on this game without even adding larger quantities of enticing gameplay.
This idea to remove the need for an outside chat for people to cooperate with is a horrible idea in my opinion.
There is really only one way to remove the need/desire to join a shard chat: put everyone in a shard in an in game chat. Even then the chats that are already set up are likely to just continue.
One way or another, you aren't going to get rid of cooperation between players. And that cooperation is not only not "wrong" or "against the spirit of arena", it is actually unofficially condoned by the makers of this game as evidenced by the section of the forum where people contact each other to find their shards.
The only "real" problem evidenced by shard chats is that they didn't provide any in-game methods of communication between competitors. What fighting tournaments forbid communication between contestants? None that I know of.
The real "need" for these shard chats is the fact that people are combined from all over the globe into 1 shard where they don't even share a payout. So I may be the best player in my payout, but I don't get 1st because Joe Schmoe is still in 1st from his payout 2 hours ago. In what world does it seem just to make someone earn less due to someone who isn't even in the running?
The fact of the matter is that shard chats are there to combat poor arena design. The devs are aware their design has some failings, and that's why they allow the chats to continue.
So any solution that you have for "shard chats" isn't a solution if it just targets the chats. Instead it must target the problems that lead to the need for them to begin with. Making people less likely to be able to get top ranks since everyone wants to now sit in the top 10 all day is going in the opposite direction.
So much this. Generally you get attacked when you get close to the top 50 more because there's a broader range of players that can hit you. For example, if I'm sitting at 7, there are only four other players that can hit me (8,9,10,11). If I'm sitting at 50, there are, I believe, 10.
I generally find being around the payout fringes anywhere OUTSIDE of the top 20 is the wild wild west. It's just so uncivilized beyond the 20s.
I see that you didn't see my revised idea further down. Which addresses literally everything you said and would once again eliminate shard chats which are directly in violation of the spirit of a 1v1 mode. Shard chats promote collusion against players that don't want to follow some arbitrary rules set my who ever created this group in the first place. Some shard chats have outlandish rules while some are laid back. Should someone be punished because they happen to be in a shard with the Shard chat of stalin rules wise? Or should someone be punished because they don't want to take the time to check in a chat if they are allowed to attack bob the builder when they have time to get on?
People say oh no don't climb at certain times if it isn't your pay out. Why should you climb when you want to? Why should you be put at a disadvantage in a 1v1 game mode because 40 people got together and labeled you a hostile?
Third why should joe schmoe even give up his number 1 position if he enjoys staying at number one just so every tom **** and sally can get a certain pay out? Life isn't fair this is competition. Welcome to the real world.
Yep I agree. Our chat only worries about people who are regularly in the top 20. If you can't easily climb out of the top 100 to the top 50 then you aren't running a top team. Most likely the reason a player is hit a lot in the top 50 is because they have a sub par team that can win on offense but is an easy target on defense.
On those occasions I fall that far, I notice that the teams in the 50-100 range are poorly modded and easy to beat compared to those in the top 20 or top 10. So if you have one of those teams, you'll be an easy target if you get into the top 50 or top 20.
Shard chats are not in direct violation of a 1v1 mode, that is an invalid point. Firstly, what competitions forbid communication between the combatants? None, that's how many. This is the actual point of a shard chat: communication. You don't want to talk to the people in your shard? That's your right, but saying that communication is against the spirit is not a true statement.
As for cooperation, it MAY be against the spirit of a bracket style competition like this, but if the people you are cooperating with are not actually competing against you (have a different payout), then it is rather disengenuous to think of it is malicious at all, let alone collusion.
Your other idea involves constant shard shuffling, and basically a whole redesign of the squad arena system, something that isn't likely to ever happen. You want to get rid of shard chats? The way to do so is to only put people in a shard that share a payout and stick them all in a chat together to begin with. Now this comes with a number of drawbacks: Can't really play with players around the globe anymore. Shards will take longer to fill up (though the size would be decreased obviously), so the levels of progression between the first members of a shard and the final members will be farther apart as well.
I think you may be able to find an answer to your dilemma, but first you must recognize that shard chats are not the problem, but rather a symptom of the problem.
Wait, what? hahah
LOL! Should fix that to Life isn't fair, this is collusion. Welcome to the real world.
It's a 1v1 competition. People that cry about oh its pay to win ok that makes sense you cant beat a whale however that's part of the advantage of pay to win. IF you beat said person well then even more bragging rights or under the systems I purposed that would give you more "points" towards your rating. Vs oh no this guy keeps beating me its not fair lets go get 10 other people and collude to beat this guy so I'm guaranteed to hit my pay out.
I mean collusion in a 1v1 game mode is basically cheating. That's an unfair advantage that the real world doesn't look favorably on.
As opposed to oh no he has better people than me that's unfair boo hoo I suck.
I mean I don't think it is a necessary evil. I think a couple changes could entirely eliminate the issue.
This x1000 shard chats are cancer
Shard chats are mostly beneficial. Some people have this problem with talking to others. That's their issue. The shard chat isn't the issue and never has been.
Which is exactly my point. If there's one group doing this statistically there's likely 100 groups doing that. Which is a major problem
100 out of how many, statistically speaking?
More to the point, what's your statistically verified percentage of shards that do this which leads you to 100 groups doing it if one is, statistically speaking?
Better?
Sounds like a communication issue to me. People don't want to trust anyone they can't communicate with. You're talking to your payout mates, but you aren't talking to the guys causing you problems.
It's not the chat that's the issue.
So someone other than the people you are in contact with is the problem... because you can't/don't talk to them. Sounds like a communication problem to me, not an issue with there being a chat.
Not joining the chat is saying: "I don't want to talk to you". Why should you expect people to respect you if you are telling them you don't want to talk to them?
So I reiterate: Some people don't like to communicate, and that's their issue. It isn't the chat that's the issue.