GP Matchmaking & “Fluff”

Replies

  • Liath wrote: »
    Rebel_yell wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    BeralCator wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »

    Meh. Calling people sandbaggers for not activating their trash is a red herring. It's not accurate and arguing about it is irrelevant to the actual problem of GA matchmaking.

    I think you are misreading or half reading the topic. It's the system he brings into the question. Anyway I'll make my argument leading from there:

    So are we all going to start sandbagging starting from here? I sure am as long as the current matchmaking system stays in place. That will in turn hurt my enjoyment of the game and encourage me to do less than I can easily can with my current resources.

    Are you gonna sandbag as well?

    This is on point. We have a game where the developers are releasing all these new characters and ships, but there is disincentive to activate and use them unless they are meta-breaking or essential for meta-breaking legendary characters. Is it really a fun experience if we all have the same core characters, and the person who wins is one the who has spent the most money on gear or has gotten the best RNG for speed mods? Whatever happened to experimenting with team composition and synergy? Every new meta team is single-faction now, and the power creep is so bad that you can't even realistically use old Jedi with new Jedi.

    I know it's not good for their bottom line, but taking the 40-50 characters that are currently trash and reworking them would go a long way to solving some of these issues. It would make the players with roster bloat immediately more competitive, and it would add a lot more in the way of fun theory-crafting and variance in arena/TW/GA, etc. Or add some events with good rewards where you need a pimped out Gamorrean Guard or Mob Enforcer to play.

    Resulting in dozens of posts from other people complaining that they are being “forced” to work on useless characters. Just look at the posts immediately after Ewoks were confirmed for C3.

    danged if you do, danged if you don't.

    A bet a bunch of people are going to be happily surprised with ewok performance in guild events. I've wanted to work on them forever, but was never "forced". I'm actually stoked they're required.

    side note - did you take time off from the game? you used to post a lot a long time ago and then went dark. Always a reasonable voice even if you disagreed with someone else. Good to see you back.

    I didn’t take time off from the game, just the forum. It had become a toxic place for me and was affecting me on a personal level so I needed to walk away from it for a while.

    I feel you.
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »

    Meh. Calling people sandbaggers for not activating their trash is a red herring. It's not accurate and arguing about it is irrelevant to the actual problem of GA matchmaking.

    I think you are misreading or half reading the topic. It's the system he brings into the question. Anyway I'll make my argument leading from there:

    So are we all going to start sandbagging starting from here? I sure am as long as the current matchmaking system stays in place. That will in turn hurt my enjoyment of the game and encourage me to do less than I can easily can with my current resources.

    Are you gonna sandbag as well?

    It's a resource and squad management game.... Since when does gearing up the right toons the right way for your preferred game mode equate to sandbagging?

    Since when the definition of sandbagging was made. Read about it ;).

    Lmao..... So you are saying these people intentionally built their rosters from day one knowing that some day grand arena would be here and the matchmaking would be like this?....

    Nope, it's going from the time GA is introduced this action became sandbagging as it entails "to lower one's competetive rating to have a better chance to win". It's the matchmaking design's fault players started to and will sandbag.

    Except as hats not the definition of as sandbagging.....

    Huh? You still didn't use that **** google, did you?

    The definition of sandbagging according to google (which I apparently don't use)

    "To deliberately underperform in a race or competition to gain a better position"

    It's a resource management game..... If you are dilligentjy managing your resources to give yourself a competitive advantage, then you certainly aren't underperforming.......

    Sandbagging is not limited to your quotation, that's just one way it happens, there are many avenues. My quotation in the previous post is also sandbagging according to wiki. It makes sense being considered so, no?

    I will knowingly go through a process of keeping my competetive rating(GP is what CG decided to base it on) as low as possible to have a better chance to win.

    I already was managing my resources as well as you while fluffing as made evident throughout the topic.
  • No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »

    Meh. Calling people sandbaggers for not activating their trash is a red herring. It's not accurate and arguing about it is irrelevant to the actual problem of GA matchmaking.

    I think you are misreading or half reading the topic. It's the system he brings into the question. Anyway I'll make my argument leading from there:

    So are we all going to start sandbagging starting from here? I sure am as long as the current matchmaking system stays in place. That will in turn hurt my enjoyment of the game and encourage me to do less than I can easily can with my current resources.

    Are you gonna sandbag as well?

    It's a resource and squad management game.... Since when does gearing up the right toons the right way for your preferred game mode equate to sandbagging?

    Since when the definition of sandbagging was made. Read about it ;).

    Lmao..... So you are saying these people intentionally built their rosters from day one knowing that some day grand arena would be here and the matchmaking would be like this?....

    Nope, it's going from the time GA is introduced this action became sandbagging as it entails "to lower one's competetive rating to have a better chance to win". It's the matchmaking design's fault players started to and will sandbag.

    Except as hats not the definition of as sandbagging.....

    Huh? You still didn't use that **** google, did you?

    The definition of sandbagging according to google (which I apparently don't use)

    "To deliberately underperform in a race or competition to gain a better position"

    It's a resource management game..... If you are dilligentjy managing your resources to give yourself a competitive advantage, then you certainly aren't underperforming.......

    Sandbagging is not limited to your quotation, that's just one way it happens, there are many avenues. My quotation in the previous post is also sandbagging according to wiki. It makes sense being considered so, no?

    I will knowingly go through a process of keeping my competetive rating(GP is what CG decided to base it on) as low as possible to have a better chance to win.

    I already was managing my resources as well as you while fluffing as made evident throughout the topic.

    That's your choice...... Wiki?.... Really?
  • Liath
    3452 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    Rebel_yell wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    BeralCator wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »

    Meh. Calling people sandbaggers for not activating their trash is a red herring. It's not accurate and arguing about it is irrelevant to the actual problem of GA matchmaking.

    I think you are misreading or half reading the topic. It's the system he brings into the question. Anyway I'll make my argument leading from there:

    So are we all going to start sandbagging starting from here? I sure am as long as the current matchmaking system stays in place. That will in turn hurt my enjoyment of the game and encourage me to do less than I can easily can with my current resources.

    Are you gonna sandbag as well?

    This is on point. We have a game where the developers are releasing all these new characters and ships, but there is disincentive to activate and use them unless they are meta-breaking or essential for meta-breaking legendary characters. Is it really a fun experience if we all have the same core characters, and the person who wins is one the who has spent the most money on gear or has gotten the best RNG for speed mods? Whatever happened to experimenting with team composition and synergy? Every new meta team is single-faction now, and the power creep is so bad that you can't even realistically use old Jedi with new Jedi.

    I know it's not good for their bottom line, but taking the 40-50 characters that are currently trash and reworking them would go a long way to solving some of these issues. It would make the players with roster bloat immediately more competitive, and it would add a lot more in the way of fun theory-crafting and variance in arena/TW/GA, etc. Or add some events with good rewards where you need a pimped out Gamorrean Guard or Mob Enforcer to play.

    Resulting in dozens of posts from other people complaining that they are being “forced” to work on useless characters. Just look at the posts immediately after Ewoks were confirmed for C3.

    danged if you do, danged if you don't.

    A bet a bunch of people are going to be happily surprised with ewok performance in guild events. I've wanted to work on them forever, but was never "forced". I'm actually stoked they're required.

    side note - did you take time off from the game? you used to post a lot a long time ago and then went dark. Always a reasonable voice even if you disagreed with someone else. Good to see you back.

    I didn’t take time off from the game, just the forum. It had become a toxic place for me and was affecting me on a personal level so I needed to walk away from it for a while.

    But you came back expecting something different? ;)

    Lol. I got bored and figured I’d see if I could keep my distance from the toxicity a little better. If not I will disappear again. :blush:
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »

    Meh. Calling people sandbaggers for not activating their trash is a red herring. It's not accurate and arguing about it is irrelevant to the actual problem of GA matchmaking.

    I think you are misreading or half reading the topic. It's the system he brings into the question. Anyway I'll make my argument leading from there:

    So are we all going to start sandbagging starting from here? I sure am as long as the current matchmaking system stays in place. That will in turn hurt my enjoyment of the game and encourage me to do less than I can easily can with my current resources.

    Are you gonna sandbag as well?

    It's a resource and squad management game.... Since when does gearing up the right toons the right way for your preferred game mode equate to sandbagging?

    Since when the definition of sandbagging was made. Read about it ;).

    Lmao..... So you are saying these people intentionally built their rosters from day one knowing that some day grand arena would be here and the matchmaking would be like this?....

    Nope, it's going from the time GA is introduced this action became sandbagging as it entails "to lower one's competetive rating to have a better chance to win". It's the matchmaking design's fault players started to and will sandbag.

    Except as hats not the definition of as sandbagging.....

    Huh? You still didn't use that **** google, did you?

    The definition of sandbagging according to google (which I apparently don't use)

    "To deliberately underperform in a race or competition to gain a better position"

    It's a resource management game..... If you are dilligentjy managing your resources to give yourself a competitive advantage, then you certainly aren't underperforming.......

    Sandbagging is not limited to your quotation, that's just one way it happens, there are many avenues. My quotation in the previous post is also sandbagging according to wiki. It makes sense being considered so, no?

    I will knowingly go through a process of keeping my competetive rating(GP is what CG decided to base it on) as low as possible to have a better chance to win.

    I already was managing my resources as well as you while fluffing as made evident throughout the topic.

    That's your choice...... Wiki?.... Really?

    Heh, why don't you cut to the chase and try to make a point why wouldn't that be called or considered sandbagging? Than we'd have something to talk about at least.
  • No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »

    Meh. Calling people sandbaggers for not activating their trash is a red herring. It's not accurate and arguing about it is irrelevant to the actual problem of GA matchmaking.

    I think you are misreading or half reading the topic. It's the system he brings into the question. Anyway I'll make my argument leading from there:

    So are we all going to start sandbagging starting from here? I sure am as long as the current matchmaking system stays in place. That will in turn hurt my enjoyment of the game and encourage me to do less than I can easily can with my current resources.

    Are you gonna sandbag as well?

    It's a resource and squad management game.... Since when does gearing up the right toons the right way for your preferred game mode equate to sandbagging?

    Since when the definition of sandbagging was made. Read about it ;).

    Lmao..... So you are saying these people intentionally built their rosters from day one knowing that some day grand arena would be here and the matchmaking would be like this?....

    Nope, it's going from the time GA is introduced this action became sandbagging as it entails "to lower one's competetive rating to have a better chance to win". It's the matchmaking design's fault players started to and will sandbag.

    Except as hats not the definition of as sandbagging.....

    Huh? You still didn't use that **** google, did you?

    The definition of sandbagging according to google (which I apparently don't use)

    "To deliberately underperform in a race or competition to gain a better position"

    It's a resource management game..... If you are dilligentjy managing your resources to give yourself a competitive advantage, then you certainly aren't underperforming.......

    Sandbagging is not limited to your quotation, that's just one way it happens, there are many avenues. My quotation in the previous post is also sandbagging according to wiki. It makes sense being considered so, no?

    I will knowingly go through a process of keeping my competetive rating(GP is what CG decided to base it on) as low as possible to have a better chance to win.

    I already was managing my resources as well as you while fluffing as made evident throughout the topic.

    That's your choice...... Wiki?.... Really?

    Heh, why don't you cut to the chase and try to make a point why wouldn't that be called or considered sandbagging? Than we'd have something to talk about at least.

    I made my point..... You are grasping at straws...

    If the definition of sandbagging is to underperform to get better placement, then I certainly don't think the following is underperforming in a resource management game....

    1- not gearing up characters you don't intend to use
    2- removing mods from unused characters to lower GP

    There are examples of where people sandbag in this game related to TW, thankfully, cg seems to be addressing them....
  • No_Try
    2095 posts Member
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »

    Meh. Calling people sandbaggers for not activating their trash is a red herring. It's not accurate and arguing about it is irrelevant to the actual problem of GA matchmaking.

    I think you are misreading or half reading the topic. It's the system he brings into the question. Anyway I'll make my argument leading from there:

    So are we all going to start sandbagging starting from here? I sure am as long as the current matchmaking system stays in place. That will in turn hurt my enjoyment of the game and encourage me to do less than I can easily can with my current resources.

    Are you gonna sandbag as well?

    It's a resource and squad management game.... Since when does gearing up the right toons the right way for your preferred game mode equate to sandbagging?

    Since when the definition of sandbagging was made. Read about it ;).

    Lmao..... So you are saying these people intentionally built their rosters from day one knowing that some day grand arena would be here and the matchmaking would be like this?....

    Nope, it's going from the time GA is introduced this action became sandbagging as it entails "to lower one's competetive rating to have a better chance to win". It's the matchmaking design's fault players started to and will sandbag.

    Except as hats not the definition of as sandbagging.....

    Huh? You still didn't use that **** google, did you?

    The definition of sandbagging according to google (which I apparently don't use)

    "To deliberately underperform in a race or competition to gain a better position"

    It's a resource management game..... If you are dilligentjy managing your resources to give yourself a competitive advantage, then you certainly aren't underperforming.......

    Sandbagging is not limited to your quotation, that's just one way it happens, there are many avenues. My quotation in the previous post is also sandbagging according to wiki. It makes sense being considered so, no?

    I will knowingly go through a process of keeping my competetive rating(GP is what CG decided to base it on) as low as possible to have a better chance to win.

    I already was managing my resources as well as you while fluffing as made evident throughout the topic.

    That's your choice...... Wiki?.... Really?

    Heh, why don't you cut to the chase and try to make a point why wouldn't that be called or considered sandbagging? Than we'd have something to talk about at least.

    I made my point..... You are grasping at straws...

    If the definition of sandbagging is to underperform to get better placement, then I certainly don't think the following is underperforming in a resource management game....

    1- not gearing up characters you don't intend to use
    2- removing mods from unused characters to lower GP

    There are examples of where people sandbag in this game related to TW, thankfully, cg seems to be addressing them....

    Thanks for the direct answer. For the same reasons I call it sandbagging. Many people will start doing it for the exact reason to get matched with people that doesn't do it or at least keep in the same plane of people doing it. Not because it's a resource management game which can be managed as well with upto 10k of items which they can't use anyway.
  • Vicarious
    169 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    People like to call it “resource management” to make it sound like they have been playing smart or something. Lol. New players who started when TW was launched sure. Anyone who started way before that and has no “fluff” are just full of it plain and simple.

    They act like they have a crystal ball and can see into the future. They knew TW and GA were coming. They were just playing smart, bwahahaha!!

    Saving all that g1-g7 gear huh. How’s that going for you?!?
  • You so called “smart” players, you managers of resources. Do you really think the vast majority of players with “fluff” have a g12 Ugnaught or g12 CUP? You really think that the majority of players with “fluff” also don’t have the meta characters at g12?? That those with “fluff” have absolutely no resources to use on future meta characters???

    Give me a break.
  • No_Try
    2095 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    @Kyno you have an admirable roster. You were able to gear majority of toons to a semi-functional state. This is what is left of it. Besides your admitted credits shortage to fluff further, I don't see many of these toons in the state they are due to wise resource management or intent to use the way you describe it.

    dumaghi69ff3.png
    erozl4rmnha8.png
    n8ou1a0xjbgz.png


  • @BubbaFett Please post your swgoh.gg link. Trolling from a 1.5m gp account is hilarious...I hope I'm wrong
  • No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »

    Meh. Calling people sandbaggers for not activating their trash is a red herring. It's not accurate and arguing about it is irrelevant to the actual problem of GA matchmaking.

    I think you are misreading or half reading the topic. It's the system he brings into the question. Anyway I'll make my argument leading from there:

    So are we all going to start sandbagging starting from here? I sure am as long as the current matchmaking system stays in place. That will in turn hurt my enjoyment of the game and encourage me to do less than I can easily can with my current resources.

    Are you gonna sandbag as well?

    It's a resource and squad management game.... Since when does gearing up the right toons the right way for your preferred game mode equate to sandbagging?

    Since when the definition of sandbagging was made. Read about it ;).

    Lmao..... So you are saying these people intentionally built their rosters from day one knowing that some day grand arena would be here and the matchmaking would be like this?....

    Nope, it's going from the time GA is introduced this action became sandbagging as it entails "to lower one's competetive rating to have a better chance to win". It's the matchmaking design's fault players started to and will sandbag.

    Except as hats not the definition of as sandbagging.....

    Huh? You still didn't use that **** google, did you?

    The definition of sandbagging according to google (which I apparently don't use)

    "To deliberately underperform in a race or competition to gain a better position"

    It's a resource management game..... If you are dilligentjy managing your resources to give yourself a competitive advantage, then you certainly aren't underperforming.......

    Sandbagging is not limited to your quotation, that's just one way it happens, there are many avenues. My quotation in the previous post is also sandbagging according to wiki. It makes sense being considered so, no?

    I will knowingly go through a process of keeping my competetive rating(GP is what CG decided to base it on) as low as possible to have a better chance to win.

    I already was managing my resources as well as you while fluffing as made evident throughout the topic.

    That's your choice...... Wiki?.... Really?

    Heh, why don't you cut to the chase and try to make a point why wouldn't that be called or considered sandbagging? Than we'd have something to talk about at least.

    I made my point..... You are grasping at straws...

    If the definition of sandbagging is to underperform to get better placement, then I certainly don't think the following is underperforming in a resource management game....

    1- not gearing up characters you don't intend to use
    2- removing mods from unused characters to lower GP

    There are examples of where people sandbag in this game related to TW, thankfully, cg seems to be addressing them....

    Thanks for the direct answer. For the same reasons I call it sandbagging. Many people will start doing it for the exact reason to get matched with people that doesn't do it or at least keep in the same plane of people doing it. Not because it's a resource management game which can be managed as well with upto 10k of items which they can't use anyway.

    You can call it sandbagging, I call it resource management, it's two different points of view I guess..... If a player manages their resources so they do better in the game then I don't consider that "sandbagging"..... I don't see the point in levelling up sub par characters that stay on the bench and never get used and I never will.....

  • Austin9370 wrote: »
    @BubbaFett Please post your swgoh.gg link. Trolling from a 1.5m gp account is hilarious...I hope I'm wrong

    You can stop asking me to post .my GG because I don't have one .... My GP is completely irrelevant to the topic, you don't need to have 4 mil GP to have an opinion.....

    You are the same person that came in here during the Chewbacca event spouting off about how easy it was when tons of other veteran players were unhappy that it was the first legendary with that level of difficulty yet here you are when an event doesn't match how you have built your roster complaining about it..... I'm certainly not the trioll here...
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »

    Meh. Calling people sandbaggers for not activating their trash is a red herring. It's not accurate and arguing about it is irrelevant to the actual problem of GA matchmaking.

    I think you are misreading or half reading the topic. It's the system he brings into the question. Anyway I'll make my argument leading from there:

    So are we all going to start sandbagging starting from here? I sure am as long as the current matchmaking system stays in place. That will in turn hurt my enjoyment of the game and encourage me to do less than I can easily can with my current resources.

    Are you gonna sandbag as well?

    It's a resource and squad management game.... Since when does gearing up the right toons the right way for your preferred game mode equate to sandbagging?

    Since when the definition of sandbagging was made. Read about it ;).

    Lmao..... So you are saying these people intentionally built their rosters from day one knowing that some day grand arena would be here and the matchmaking would be like this?....

    Nope, it's going from the time GA is introduced this action became sandbagging as it entails "to lower one's competetive rating to have a better chance to win". It's the matchmaking design's fault players started to and will sandbag.

    Except as hats not the definition of as sandbagging.....

    Huh? You still didn't use that **** google, did you?

    The definition of sandbagging according to google (which I apparently don't use)

    "To deliberately underperform in a race or competition to gain a better position"

    It's a resource management game..... If you are dilligentjy managing your resources to give yourself a competitive advantage, then you certainly aren't underperforming.......

    Sandbagging is not limited to your quotation, that's just one way it happens, there are many avenues. My quotation in the previous post is also sandbagging according to wiki. It makes sense being considered so, no?

    I will knowingly go through a process of keeping my competetive rating(GP is what CG decided to base it on) as low as possible to have a better chance to win.

    I already was managing my resources as well as you while fluffing as made evident throughout the topic.

    That's your choice...... Wiki?.... Really?

    Heh, why don't you cut to the chase and try to make a point why wouldn't that be called or considered sandbagging? Than we'd have something to talk about at least.

    I made my point..... You are grasping at straws...

    If the definition of sandbagging is to underperform to get better placement, then I certainly don't think the following is underperforming in a resource management game....

    1- not gearing up characters you don't intend to use
    2- removing mods from unused characters to lower GP

    There are examples of where people sandbag in this game related to TW, thankfully, cg seems to be addressing them....

    Thanks for the direct answer. For the same reasons I call it sandbagging. Many people will start doing it for the exact reason to get matched with people that doesn't do it or at least keep in the same plane of people doing it. Not because it's a resource management game which can be managed as well with upto 10k of items which they can't use anyway.

    You can call it sandbagging, I call it resource management, it's two different points of view I guess..... If a player manages their resources so they do better in the game then I don't consider that "sandbagging"..... I don't see the point in levelling up sub par characters that stay on the bench and never get used and I never will.....

    I don't see the point of not doing it when you can do so without any resource redirection/additional farming/bottleneck or diminishing piles.

    I do see the point though, now that CG made an arbitrary decision to make it a disadvantage...probably not even thinking of the outcomes of their choice.
  • Kyno
    20124 posts Moderator
    No_Try wrote: »
    @Kyno you have an admirable roster. You were able to gear majority of toons to a semi-functional state. This is what is left of it. Besides your admitted credits shortage to fluff further, I don't see many of these toons in the state they are due to wise resource management or intent to use the way you describe it.

    dumaghi69ff3.png
    erozl4rmnha8.png
    n8ou1a0xjbgz.png


    Yes as a 3 year veteran I have done a lot to manage my resources and get to the place where I am, but i still make use of a small hoard of materials to make sure I am flexible as new things roll out.

    I also would not expect a newer player to invest the same way I have. Nor would I consider my roster as combat effective as rosters I have seen. I consider myself more of a collector than a combatant.

    Also after starting to get my Ewoks ready, I am lower on credits than I would like, if something else comes up.

    I am not going to be winning the top spot in many GA but I do ok in TW. That doesnt mean I cant see how I would have planned better and what choices I could have made, nor would I ever think that anyone should cater to my choices.
  • Kyno
    20124 posts Moderator
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    BubbaFett wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »

    Meh. Calling people sandbaggers for not activating their trash is a red herring. It's not accurate and arguing about it is irrelevant to the actual problem of GA matchmaking.

    I think you are misreading or half reading the topic. It's the system he brings into the question. Anyway I'll make my argument leading from there:

    So are we all going to start sandbagging starting from here? I sure am as long as the current matchmaking system stays in place. That will in turn hurt my enjoyment of the game and encourage me to do less than I can easily can with my current resources.

    Are you gonna sandbag as well?

    It's a resource and squad management game.... Since when does gearing up the right toons the right way for your preferred game mode equate to sandbagging?

    Since when the definition of sandbagging was made. Read about it ;).

    Lmao..... So you are saying these people intentionally built their rosters from day one knowing that some day grand arena would be here and the matchmaking would be like this?....

    Nope, it's going from the time GA is introduced this action became sandbagging as it entails "to lower one's competetive rating to have a better chance to win". It's the matchmaking design's fault players started to and will sandbag.

    Except as hats not the definition of as sandbagging.....

    Huh? You still didn't use that **** google, did you?

    The definition of sandbagging according to google (which I apparently don't use)

    "To deliberately underperform in a race or competition to gain a better position"

    It's a resource management game..... If you are dilligentjy managing your resources to give yourself a competitive advantage, then you certainly aren't underperforming.......

    Sandbagging is not limited to your quotation, that's just one way it happens, there are many avenues. My quotation in the previous post is also sandbagging according to wiki. It makes sense being considered so, no?

    I will knowingly go through a process of keeping my competetive rating(GP is what CG decided to base it on) as low as possible to have a better chance to win.

    I already was managing my resources as well as you while fluffing as made evident throughout the topic.

    That's your choice...... Wiki?.... Really?

    Heh, why don't you cut to the chase and try to make a point why wouldn't that be called or considered sandbagging? Than we'd have something to talk about at least.

    I made my point..... You are grasping at straws...

    If the definition of sandbagging is to underperform to get better placement, then I certainly don't think the following is underperforming in a resource management game....

    1- not gearing up characters you don't intend to use
    2- removing mods from unused characters to lower GP

    There are examples of where people sandbag in this game related to TW, thankfully, cg seems to be addressing them....

    Thanks for the direct answer. For the same reasons I call it sandbagging. Many people will start doing it for the exact reason to get matched with people that doesn't do it or at least keep in the same plane of people doing it. Not because it's a resource management game which can be managed as well with upto 10k of items which they can't use anyway.

    You can call it sandbagging, I call it resource management, it's two different points of view I guess..... If a player manages their resources so they do better in the game then I don't consider that "sandbagging"..... I don't see the point in levelling up sub par characters that stay on the bench and never get used and I never will.....

    I don't see the point of not doing it when you can do so without any resource redirection/additional farming/bottleneck or diminishing piles.

    I do see the point though, now that CG made an arbitrary decision to make it a disadvantage...probably not even thinking of the outcomes of their choice.

    The main reason to not just do anything blind or without intent, is due to the fact that many players see this as a resource management game. Managing your resources doesnt lend itself to saying I should spend because I have X or X number of X.

    It means you look at the tool you are investing in and measure it's worth, its usefulness, and it's long term path. If you dont need it you move on. Of you feel it will help you and you are ok with the investment to get there, you take that path.
  • No_Try
    2095 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    @Kyno you have an admirable roster. You were able to gear majority of toons to a semi-functional state. This is what is left of it. Besides your admitted credits shortage to fluff further, I don't see many of these toons in the state they are due to wise resource management or intent to use the way you describe it.

    dumaghi69ff3.png
    erozl4rmnha8.png
    n8ou1a0xjbgz.png


    Yes as a 3 year veteran I have done a lot to manage my resources and get to the place where I am, but i still make use of a small hoard of materials to make sure I am flexible as new things roll out.

    I also would not expect a newer player to invest the same way I have. Nor would I consider my roster as combat effective as rosters I have seen. I consider myself more of a collector than a combatant.

    Also after starting to get my Ewoks ready, I am lower on credits than I would like, if something else comes up.

    I am not going to be winning the top spot in many GA but I do ok in TW. That doesnt mean I cant see how I would have planned better and what choices I could have made, nor would I ever think that anyone should cater to my choices.

    Which choices you have made (talking specifically about g8 and -) you would have made better, how so? What is the exact reason you weren't able to be smart/wise about these choices?

    Would you also not have made them if current GA matchmaking didn't happen? Or are you reframing them as bad choices because of the matchmaking?
  • Kyno
    20124 posts Moderator
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno you have an admirable roster. You were able to gear majority of toons to a semi-functional state. This is what is left of it. Besides your admitted credits shortage to fluff further, I don't see many of these toons in the state they are due to wise resource management or intent to use the way you describe it.

    dumaghi69ff3.png
    erozl4rmnha8.png
    n8ou1a0xjbgz.png


    Yes as a 3 year veteran I have done a lot to manage my resources and get to the place where I am, but i still make use of a small hoard of materials to make sure I am flexible as new things roll out.

    I also would not expect a newer player to invest the same way I have. Nor would I consider my roster as combat effective as rosters I have seen. I consider myself more of a collector than a combatant.

    Also after starting to get my Ewoks ready, I am lower on credits than I would like, if something else comes up.

    I am not going to be winning the top spot in many GA but I do ok in TW. That doesnt mean I cant see how I would have planned better and what choices I could have made, nor would I ever think that anyone should cater to my choices.

    Which choices you have made (talking specifically about g8 and -) you would have made better, how so? Would you also not have made them if current GA matchmaking didn't happen? Or are you reframing them as bad choices because of the matchmaking?

    No as I said, I dont blame anyone for my choices. There are several toons that I thought I would use or continue to gear that I didnt for ships or raids or other plans that only got half realized. I feel those hurt me in TW (and now GA but that's too early to tell). I dont mean they hurt me because of my GP, I mean they were a miss allocation of needed resources or energy(in reference to the cantina table) that could have help me get toons to a better state or give me better mods.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno you have an admirable roster. You were able to gear majority of toons to a semi-functional state. This is what is left of it. Besides your admitted credits shortage to fluff further, I don't see many of these toons in the state they are due to wise resource management or intent to use the way you describe it.

    dumaghi69ff3.png
    erozl4rmnha8.png
    n8ou1a0xjbgz.png


    Yes as a 3 year veteran I have done a lot to manage my resources and get to the place where I am, but i still make use of a small hoard of materials to make sure I am flexible as new things roll out.

    I also would not expect a newer player to invest the same way I have. Nor would I consider my roster as combat effective as rosters I have seen. I consider myself more of a collector than a combatant.

    Also after starting to get my Ewoks ready, I am lower on credits than I would like, if something else comes up.

    I am not going to be winning the top spot in many GA but I do ok in TW. That doesnt mean I cant see how I would have planned better and what choices I could have made, nor would I ever think that anyone should cater to my choices.

    Which choices you have made (talking specifically about g8 and -) you would have made better, how so? Would you also not have made them if current GA matchmaking didn't happen? Or are you reframing them as bad choices because of the matchmaking?

    No as I said, I dont blame anyone for my choices. There are several toons that I thought I would use or continue to gear that I didnt for ships or raids or other plans that only got half realized. I feel those hurt me in TW (and now GA but that's too early to tell). I dont mean they hurt me because of my GP, I mean they were a miss allocation of needed resources or energy(in reference to the cantina table) that could have help me get toons to a better state or give me better mods.

    That's quite a twist there you pulled with bringing up cantina. What about the gear you wasted on them, do they have a better place they would have gone to? Is it your continuously growing pile of unspendable resources?
  • This game mode is entirely imbalanced. Period. Total waste of time. Again, faced with an unbeatable opponent, literally nothing I have can take on this opponent.
  • Kyno
    20124 posts Moderator
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno you have an admirable roster. You were able to gear majority of toons to a semi-functional state. This is what is left of it. Besides your admitted credits shortage to fluff further, I don't see many of these toons in the state they are due to wise resource management or intent to use the way you describe it.

    dumaghi69ff3.png
    erozl4rmnha8.png
    n8ou1a0xjbgz.png


    Yes as a 3 year veteran I have done a lot to manage my resources and get to the place where I am, but i still make use of a small hoard of materials to make sure I am flexible as new things roll out.

    I also would not expect a newer player to invest the same way I have. Nor would I consider my roster as combat effective as rosters I have seen. I consider myself more of a collector than a combatant.

    Also after starting to get my Ewoks ready, I am lower on credits than I would like, if something else comes up.

    I am not going to be winning the top spot in many GA but I do ok in TW. That doesnt mean I cant see how I would have planned better and what choices I could have made, nor would I ever think that anyone should cater to my choices.

    Which choices you have made (talking specifically about g8 and -) you would have made better, how so? Would you also not have made them if current GA matchmaking didn't happen? Or are you reframing them as bad choices because of the matchmaking?

    No as I said, I dont blame anyone for my choices. There are several toons that I thought I would use or continue to gear that I didnt for ships or raids or other plans that only got half realized. I feel those hurt me in TW (and now GA but that's too early to tell). I dont mean they hurt me because of my GP, I mean they were a miss allocation of needed resources or energy(in reference to the cantina table) that could have help me get toons to a better state or give me better mods.

    That's quite a twist there you pulled with bringing up cantina. What about the gear you wasted on them, do they have a better place they would have gone to? Is it your continuously growing pile of unspendable resources?

    Again resource management is about more than just one thing.

    I love how credits and crystals the 2 most important currencies are thrown to the side when it comes to gear we have 1000s of.

    When I look at the lower end of my roster I see credits wasted about 2-3M per toon to get 7* level 52, and abilities, with mods. I see wasted crystals for energy refreshes that could have been used to get more high end gear or mods, or slicing.

    My goal was never to make a place for me to put my gear I have 1000s of, it doesnt matter, I have 1000s of it, and when I'm done I will have 1000s of it. There is more that goes into every choice than just the last thing you put on a toon. The whole path has to be considered.

    And yes there are select pieces of low end gear we all have to farm randomly as we gear up toons, mk2 gel I think are one, along with a few others, the mk3 holdo projector is a great example. I also feel like I am missing another low end that shows up a lot in 9-11 but I could be wrong.

    This guy
    https://swgoh.gg/db/gear/102/mk-3-sienar-holo-projector/

    Just as much of a gate for 5-7 as it is for 9-11.

    And this
    https://swgoh.gg/db/gear/103/mk-2-zaltin-bacta-gel/

    Use at lvl 7, but then need to farm it for 8 and 9.

    Anything below g10 is useless, and anything that slows you progress to get toons through g7- g9 can be seen as a bad choice IMO.

    Again wanting others to be the bad guy or blaming a system that doesnt suit your play style doesnt make it true. Being an impartial matchmaker seems to be the goal of the GA system, I much prefer that to the dev team being heavy handed on it.
  • BubbaFett wrote: »
    Austin9370 wrote: »
    @BubbaFett Please post your swgoh.gg link. Trolling from a 1.5m gp account is hilarious...I hope I'm wrong

    You can stop asking me to post .my GG because I don't have one .... My GP is completely irrelevant to the topic, you don't need to have 4 mil GP to have an opinion.....

    You are the same person that came in here during the Chewbacca event spouting off about how easy it was when tons of other veteran players were unhappy that it was the first legendary with that level of difficulty yet here you are when an event doesn't match how you have built your roster complaining about it..... I'm certainly not the trioll here...

    It would give you some credibility....you're a newb who thinks they have a clue. Not having a SWGOH.GG account says a lot. How about an ally code? I think you're embarrased of your progress in the game and that 500 arena ranking....
  • Liath
    3452 posts Member
    Vicarious wrote: »

    Saving all that g1-g7 gear huh. How’s that going for you?!?

    Pretty well, from my perspective. To each his own!
  • No_Try
    2095 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Kyno you have an admirable roster. You were able to gear majority of toons to a semi-functional state. This is what is left of it. Besides your admitted credits shortage to fluff further, I don't see many of these toons in the state they are due to wise resource management or intent to use the way you describe it.

    dumaghi69ff3.png
    erozl4rmnha8.png
    n8ou1a0xjbgz.png


    Yes as a 3 year veteran I have done a lot to manage my resources and get to the place where I am, but i still make use of a small hoard of materials to make sure I am flexible as new things roll out.

    I also would not expect a newer player to invest the same way I have. Nor would I consider my roster as combat effective as rosters I have seen. I consider myself more of a collector than a combatant.

    Also after starting to get my Ewoks ready, I am lower on credits than I would like, if something else comes up.

    I am not going to be winning the top spot in many GA but I do ok in TW. That doesnt mean I cant see how I would have planned better and what choices I could have made, nor would I ever think that anyone should cater to my choices.

    Which choices you have made (talking specifically about g8 and -) you would have made better, how so? Would you also not have made them if current GA matchmaking didn't happen? Or are you reframing them as bad choices because of the matchmaking?

    No as I said, I dont blame anyone for my choices. There are several toons that I thought I would use or continue to gear that I didnt for ships or raids or other plans that only got half realized. I feel those hurt me in TW (and now GA but that's too early to tell). I dont mean they hurt me because of my GP, I mean they were a miss allocation of needed resources or energy(in reference to the cantina table) that could have help me get toons to a better state or give me better mods.

    That's quite a twist there you pulled with bringing up cantina. What about the gear you wasted on them, do they have a better place they would have gone to? Is it your continuously growing pile of unspendable resources?

    Again resource management is about more than just one thing.

    I love how credits and crystals the 2 most important currencies are thrown to the side when it comes to gear we have 1000s of.

    When I look at the lower end of my roster I see credits wasted about 2-3M per toon to get 7* level 52, and abilities, with mods. I see wasted crystals for energy refreshes that could have been used to get more high end gear or mods, or slicing.

    My goal was never to make a place for me to put my gear I have 1000s of, it doesnt matter, I have 1000s of it, and when I'm done I will have 1000s of it. There is more that goes into every choice than just the last thing you put on a toon. The whole path has to be considered.

    And yes there are select pieces of low end gear we all have to farm randomly as we gear up toons, mk2 gel I think are one, along with a few others, the mk3 holdo projector is a great example. I also feel like I am missing another low end that shows up a lot in 9-11 but I could be wrong.

    This guy
    https://swgoh.gg/db/gear/102/mk-3-sienar-holo-projector/

    Just as much of a gate for 5-7 as it is for 9-11.

    And this
    https://swgoh.gg/db/gear/103/mk-2-zaltin-bacta-gel/

    Use at lvl 7, but then need to farm it for 8 and 9.

    Anything below g10 is useless, and anything that slows you progress to get toons through g7- g9 can be seen as a bad choice IMO.

    Again wanting others to be the bad guy or blaming a system that doesnt suit your play style doesnt make it true. Being an impartial matchmaker seems to be the goal of the GA system, I much prefer that to the dev team being heavy handed on it.

    I'm tired of this discussion since all important points were made eaons ago and numerous times. So forgive me for not addressing it point by point. This will be my last time posting here.

    Here's a reflection on your last paragraph. I didn't call any player the bad guy for their playing styles...ever throughout these 2 topics. I just pointed out my way of doing it and why the matchmaking won't/can't match me fairly. I do %100 fault the system CG designed for matchmaking.

    Any matchmaker would be impartial by definition as it applies to all players the same. They could have gone by pixel width of toons some value and match us based on our total pixel widths. No more or less impartial than GP matchmaking.


    GP is arbitrarily thought out in terms of assessing a factor's contribution in gameplay terms. I don't think discarding GP and weighting in other factors is the way to go as that would a defeatist approach.

    I rather think the GP has to be redesigned and brought in line with it's original intent.

    Firstly a good approach would be to use exponential functions calculating each factors incremental GP contribution instead of a linear function (i.e. level 1-2 upgrade gives same gp as a level 84-85 upgrade).

    If coming up with exponentials are too much work(clue: it isn't) CG could have gone with their already established resource metrics.

    Levels have these steps in terms of credit use. There you already have the multipliers needed for GP calculation. i.e. level 1-60 gives some amount, 61-70 gives 2x that amount (don't remember the credit costs)

    With gears you either go with gear tiers same across all toons, or you go with the amount of gear pieces based on map energy costs (2nd one would differentiate GP bumps for gear between toons). If you go with the first one you need an exponential function. A single g11-12 upgrades efficacy trumps 20 g1-g2 upgrades as you know. The function has to reflect that.

    With ability mats you either go with ability tier exponentiating or work with assessing the value of green/blue/purple/omega/zeta ability mats.

    Stars, use the existing stat multiplier.

    Now the hardest part is when you have to assess GP contribution multipliers in between resource types. How much is a gear tier compared to levels? CG has already done this part, a bit lopsided but at least existing consideration.


    I'm strictly against assessing the value of toons. A toon is a toon regardless of how much power creep has happened or if one is excelling and the other one is faulty by design. This is where the player choice steps in. I'm not faulting anyone for starting later to have better toons geared or having bought toons ahead of others. However their differences in this part should absolutely be crucial for their PvP modes success just as arena is from day 1.

    I put down my current amount of fluff in the other topic, I think it was 1.28M GP compared to my 4M total. That's a whooping %32 for you. If CG based GP on one of above considerations that would be much much less, something like %5 would be right for their contribution to my fighting potential and brings it in line with the actual experience I have while using my roster. I have no problems to be matched with a player with %0 fluff in their roster if my fluff was accordingly valued.

    Then there would be no grounds to fault the system as it doesn't even need to think about or take into consideration playing styles, player mindsets, playing lengths, or spending grades. That's what I call fair.

    While you admitted the system could be better, your broad strokes, euphemisms, teachings over various topics has little to do with the problems people illustrated and comes out as gentle but condescending nevertheless.

    See you on another topic folks. Remember to hit the subscri....meh.
  • Darknesswon
    578 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    I agree with everything stated above, plus ships. Facepalm, worth 20% of the points but can be up to 50% of your GP. Seems like a good % , doesnt it.
  • As the OP of the sandbagging thread, I would like to highlight an irony (or hypocrisy) that is lost in these replies:
    The people who are arguing they are not sandbagging because GA just started are the same people who claim I wasted resources on fluff 2 years ago.
    As I realize that neither of us can predict the future, my post was obviously forward looking. Additionally, as @CG_TopHat has stated, I can never unlevel toons.
  • Liath
    3452 posts Member
    As the OP of the sandbagging thread, I would like to highlight an irony (or hypocrisy) that is lost in these replies:
    The people who are arguing they are not sandbagging because GA just started are the same people who claim I wasted resources on fluff 2 years ago.
    As I realize that neither of us can predict the future, my post was obviously forward looking. Additionally, as @CG_TopHat has stated, I can never unlevel toons.

    The posts arguing that you wasted resources aren’t based on GA. They are saying that even based on the state of the game then it was a waste. You disagree. It doesn’t really matter, except for those who are saying they ought to get easier matchups now because of their choices.

    Your post called out your opponent for what’s he’s been doing for years. That’s not forward looking.
  • The pro-GP set is very big on the idea that if you're not getting good matchups, well it's your own fault because of your own choices and your own poor roster building. However it's extremely easy to argue that prior to GA (or at least prior to TW), the optimal way to play was to use excess resources to give your lower level toons some love, increase your GP, farm even currently useless toons to 7* to help with platoons and prepare for possible reworks, etc. There was very little downside to most of these actions and regardless of what you may say, not much opportunity cost either.

    The issue is that they have all of a sudden changed the game, creating a whole new set of incentives if you want to succeed in every facet of the game (which most of us posting here do). Those with "leaner" rosters are coming off very holier-than-thou as if they predicted these changes were coming, or they're just so much better at roster building.

    Most of us are also not saying to do away with GP altogether, just that pure GP is not the best way of matchmaking. If we could actually use our whole rosters in GA, then GP would be a fine way to do it. Open it up to double or triple the number of squads you can place, and then depth of roster would matter. However we're in a game mode now where the matchmaking is based on your whole roster but success is based on the top 20% of your roster. There was no way to know this change was coming, and many people are basically stuck losing the majority of their battles for the foreseeable future because of reasonable decisions they made in the past.

    Obviously our rosters are of our own making, and it's easy to label those of us who don't like the matchmaking as "whiners". We are just trying to make the game better. Just seems obvious to me that there are better ways of making matches than GP (even Kyno admitted this), and we should advocate for that change. Both because pure GP is not a good way of creating even matchups, and because it creates bad incentives moving forward in the game (the optimal way to play now is to hoard a ton of gear/mats/credits/shards, and only use them when you're ready to make a useable toon or team...I doubt that's what CG wants, and I think it's a somewhat silly set of incentives). A change to the GP formula could also work, as mentioned above. So could incorporating number of g11/g12 toons, or zetas (though not specific toons). I'm also totally fine with a tiered reward system where people with stronger rosters get better rewards.

    By the way I have a strong roster, won my GA matchup fairly easily, and expect to finish first in my group of 8, in case you think I'm whining. It's not really on my behalf that I'm arguing.
  • The more you read this topic the more you’re wondering what’s happening. 5min of reading here will make you think that cg made a matchmaking algorithm so horrible half the players will finish 8th.
    Apparently the algorithm not only mismatches people, it actively tries to find the most unbalanced matchups possible. It even creates players with insane lean rosters to match them with collectors to punish them because it’s **** that way.
    You then believe that around 99.99% of the matchups were unwinnable for one player, and even heard of brackets where all 8 players lost the round.
    Based on your readings, everything is doomed and the game should self destruct in 12 days.

    Then you wake up and realise the first GA hasn’t even been played through.
Sign In or Register to comment.