Help me understand why opposing Revan goes before my CLS
Hi experts,
So I am trying to figure out why the opponent Revan still takes his turn before my CLS.
I am running the following:
CLS(L) - Speed = 264(+106), skillset only missing Z on Learn Control
Han - maxed skillset
Chewie - skillset only missing Z on Raging Wookiee
C-3po - 6 star, all omega-ed but no Zeta at all
Thrawn - pretty decent
My opponent team:
Revan(L) - speed = 278(+118), skillset maxed
GMY
zJolee
GK
****
So at the beginning of the fight, Han shot zJolee, followed by chewie and then Han shot him again. During this time, I noticed "resist" tag popped twice and noticed my CLS TM increased twice (which I assume is 50 TM each time). So if my calculation and understandings are correct (which probably isn't otherwise I won't be here lol), after the triple attack from han and chewie, my CLS should have a final starting TM of 364, and his Revan should have 318 (278 + 40 from leadership), but why did his Revan still goes before my CLS?
So I am trying to figure out why the opponent Revan still takes his turn before my CLS.
I am running the following:
CLS(L) - Speed = 264(+106), skillset only missing Z on Learn Control
Han - maxed skillset
Chewie - skillset only missing Z on Raging Wookiee
C-3po - 6 star, all omega-ed but no Zeta at all
Thrawn - pretty decent
My opponent team:
Revan(L) - speed = 278(+118), skillset maxed
GMY
zJolee
GK
****
So at the beginning of the fight, Han shot zJolee, followed by chewie and then Han shot him again. During this time, I noticed "resist" tag popped twice and noticed my CLS TM increased twice (which I assume is 50 TM each time). So if my calculation and understandings are correct (which probably isn't otherwise I won't be here lol), after the triple attack from han and chewie, my CLS should have a final starting TM of 364, and his Revan should have 318 (278 + 40 from leadership), but why did his Revan still goes before my CLS?
0
Replies
2 resists is 5% TM each, total 10%. Therefore the speed is 264/0.9 (cause 10% is already filled, you fill the rest 90% in 264 speed rate) which is 295 speed. That's why his 318 revan go before.
I didn't understand how you got to 100+ speed from 10% TM.
You need to fill 100% of TM to get a turn. The speed is the "rate" of how fast you do that. The example will be, toon with 300 speed, that start with 20% TM. He now need to fill 80% of TM, and the rate he does it is still 300. So 300/0.80 = 375. That mean that for this turn, he behave like 375 speed toon.
Something like that.
Cls 264 + 2 times resist = 264 + 2x50 =364 tm after first 'round', Revan at 318.
After 2nd round = cls 364+264=628,Revan 318+318=636.
After 3rd round = cls 628 + 264 = 892,Revan 636 + 318 =954.
At this point iz looks clear that Revan wull get to 1000 faster.
i dont understand why you try to mislead. the TM is between 0-100%. as i already said, and its not some incorrect info, but ACCURATE, LEGIT, and PROVEN info :
his cls start with 264 speed. get 10% TM - his speed act like 264/0.90 = 293 speed. revan speed is 318.
there's no "i think op is right". his calculations are incorrect, and the TM Speed are described like i said here ^.
Now I just need to find some team that can handle these 310+ 320+
Revan at the top of the arena without requiring similar godly speed mod set. These guys have insane 150+ mod set...
Sub Thrawn for R2...
Han’s first attack should be targeted at Jolee... or if no Jolee than Revan
Now you move next... smokescreen on CLS (he’s the one you want to be marked if Revan gets a turn), then CLS puts buff block on GK, Chewie goes and dispels their buffs, 3P0 calls mass assist on Yoda and ideally kills him, then Han goes again and kills Jolee with help from Chewie...
Then just click auto....
It works very time for me now...
I haven’t lost to Revan in ages when attacking since I figured out the turn of attacks....
Even with bad RNG resists or someone on their team moving ahead of the ideal initial turn of action you can still crush the Revan teams pretty easily...
Mods and gear do unfortunately pull a lot of weight when facing high end opponents....
Just because youre writing with capital letters, doesnt make you right. Do you just start shouting if someone has a different oppinion irl too?
You've explained/described nothing. You've merely added a formula to find a variant, which may be used, but doesnt make you actually understand whats happening. Youre the perfect example for that.
I, on the other hand, actually explained what happena and why.
If you knew anything about Math, you had realised that we're advising the exact same thing.
If you still dont get it, feel free to prove me wrong, but with an example case where your shiny formula comes to a different result than mine, instead of shouting.
You are not advising the same thing as me and its not an opinon, its a fact.
The fact is that your formula is completely wrong and misleading, and what i wrote is right. Not because its my opinion, but because of how it works. Just like what happen when you add 10% speed set to toon with 160 speed ? yea, he get 16 speed. there's no "other" stuff. there's just facts.
Go vs Revan with 333 speed. with your method, after 3 rounds, he get to (999), so 1000, yea ?
now use zCLS with 302 speed. 2 resists will give him speed of 335. by your method, he'll have 335+302+302=939 speed. so by your forumla Revan will go first. by my method, Cls will go first, cause 335 speed beat 333 speed.
try it and see that CLS will go first. and then come back here to apologize and say you were wrong and made up stuff from nothing.
good luck and thank you.
[EA_Lanna: removed ALL CAPS SPAM and bait]
I used round numbers for sake of simplicity. Obviously decimals exist.
264 speed reaches 1000 at 'round' (notice the signg around 'round') 3.78 (=1000/264).
265 speed reaches 1000 at 'round' 3.77 (=1000/265).
Therefore the 265 goes first.
{EA_Lanna: removed bait}
Could you please provide a source for this speed/TM calculation? I want to read this myself.
Challenge accepted.
Cls 302 speed, 2 resists.
Revan 333 speed.
Revan requires 1000/333=3 rounds.
Cls:
(1st rnd) 302+100=402. (5% tm gain is 50 'distance' and there are 2 times 5% tm gains here)
(2nd rnd) 402+302=704.
(3rd rnd) 704+302=1006.
1006 (of cls) is slightly higher than 1000 (of Revan), therefore cls goes first.
Alternatively, moving away from whole numbers, revan needs 3.003 rounds (1000/333), while cls needs 2.9801 rounds (1+((1000-402)/302))).
[EA_Lanna: removed bait].
As posted by the Devs on 23rd Jan 2016 (I was mistaken, it's almost 3 years now since it's now 2019)
https://www.reddit.com/r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes/comments/42003y/detailed_analysis_of_poes_bravado/cz8hvc1
Speed does not function in "tiers", nor is there such a thing as a speed "tick"--it's actually a continuous rate of fill; all other things being equal, a unit with 144 Speed will always get the first turn before a unit with 143 Speed. A Speed value of X means that a unit gains X% of their Turn Meter per unit time. So, when comparing two very fast units (say, Unit A with 167 Speed and Unit B with 143 Speed), when Unit A reaches 100% Turn Meter, Unit B would be at 85.6% Turn Meter. How this is relevant to Poe is, while he is quite fast, he is still going to go after anyone with higher Speed than him on the first turn--there isn't a Speed "threshold". The only time a coin toss determines turn order is when two units hit 100% Turn Meter at precisely the same time, which mostly happens with two of the exact same unit at the exact same gear.
@Roopehunter If you're going to start using decimels, you might as well actually start using the actual formula which uses %. TM could fill to 100 or 1000 or 10,000 and it wouldn't matter if you use % instead. So stop misleading people, or I could claim some bull kaka like TM fills to an arbitrarily decided number of 10,000 and still achieve the same results as you.
The thing I like most about this is that three years ago 167 was considered "very fast" lol.
im done with this discussion. you are wrong, continue to be wrong please. you are keep making up stuff.
good luck to you and everyone who believe you.
@Smapty I have R2 at G12 and pretty good mod, can invest in more speed for sure, but is R2's smoke screen better than Thrawn?
I recently lowered my chewie and han's potency to ensure 15% TM gain to ensure my CLS goes first against well modded Revan (< 290 speed), the initial opening few round usually have my CLS buff immune Revan to remove his TM, and my thrawn fracture GK, the rest of the battle is usually trying to trigger Revan's unique on Yoda immediately and then take out Jolee asap. It doesn't always work since it depends on how fast the rest of his team is. usually if Bastilla can go early enough, it makes it extremely difficult because GMY and Jolee has a habit of going from 5% health to 100% health with some extra protection in just one sequence of actions. Unfortunately, my best mod sets is +133 speed, after that I am mostly running speed set in the range of 100 ~ 110.
What is your R2's stats?
So, you were proven wrong by the challenge you've made up yourself, and your comment is that youre done and youre right?
As Ive said from the beginning, both calculations are the exact same thing, but while youre only giving a fancy formula, Ive actually explained what the variants mean.
Yours isnt wrong either, its the same. As proven by the challenge.
[EA_Lanna: removed bait].
100% of what, butterflies?
I mean you do realize that the have 100%, you actually have to have a hard number there. Right?
What they changed was previously when both toons hit 100% in the same time it was a tie and the rng decided who went first, now the fastest toon goes first- as they should. They also messed with the excess tm over 100%(whatever the hard number is) to whether it rolls into the next round or not.
But yall are sitting here arguing about whether the coin is heads or tails.
You have to have a hard number in order to have a % of that number. Lol.
Cls 302 speed, 2 resists.
Revan 333 speed.
Revan requires 150,000/333=450.45045045 rounds!
Cls:
(1st rnd) 302+15,000=15,302. (5% tm gain is 7500 'distance', as we all know and i didnt just invented it now, and there are 2 times 5% tm gains here)
(2nd rnd) 15,302+302=15,604
and on and on...
so 150,000-15,604=134,396. 134,396/302 = 445.019 ! lets add 2 for the first 2 rounds, 447.019
so CLS is going after 447 rounds of speed, while Revan is going after 450 rounds of speed.
believe me guys!
You are right, 1000 can be replaced by 150000 too. It doesnt break the logic.
Remember why we started discussing? Op didnt understand how tm gain and speed matters. Explaining it with a distance of 1000 is elementary level. Everyone can easily see what happens in 3-4 rounds. Its a very simplified demonstration attempt of how things work. If I started explaining with a bar between 0 and 64368 (which is btw a realistic scale, as its around the maximum capacity an integer variant can hold), pointing out that it would take cls 468.724 rounds to reach it (making up 468.724 here), obviously I would have lost op, hindering my effort of teaching something.
Again, I never said you were wrong. But "302/0.9" albeit true, is not an answer to how turn meter gain and speed works in this game, so I still claim my explanation is better of the same thing.
Note, it doesnt matter who's explanation is better. Why I keep going is because you accused me of misleading this guy intentionally with my wrong calculation. Thats uncalled and untrue.
The 302/0.9 explanation is way simpler.
@ZenJoe Here you can look at how I have them modded...
https://swgoh.gg/p/298548193/
You should get enough of a Tm boost from Han’s “shoot first” to allow your team to move first... then it’s just follow the pattern and crush them...
Smoke screen is kind of irrelevant because Han will move so many times before Revan gets a turn that he typically winds up losing stealth and getting marked instead of CLS... you can use improvise first instead but it winds up putting everyone at full TM and can throw off how you would ideally like them to move...
I think the stat boosts from R2 are probably his biggest benefit and help with taking out their characters more efficiently....
https://swgoh.gg/p/279847465/
Rather than R2 I prefer Thrawn's fracture, which I can use on Revan before he marks anyone most of the time. He doesn't mark anyone and I waste savior on him while he's fracture so no bonus turn.
Until I can gather enough speed to put my CLS at the 290+ range, I won't be able to out speed Revan teams in the top 10 rank. and Thrawn does seem as a better alternative to shut down GMY rather than Revan.
The blue bar is a distance, speed is the rate. Let's change that to something we do everyday.
The blue bar is a mile, speed is mph.
Revan goes at 300mph, Cluke goes at 260mph. Who gets there first? Revan everytime.
Now let's talk about Turn Meter gain.
Think of it like a warp jump or wormhole.
Cluke gains 5% turn meter basically means Cluke used his warp drive to teleport 5% of a mile ahead.
It does not change his speed, he's still going 260mph. Revan is still going 300mph. Revan will still get there because even with Clue taking a shortcut, Revan is still getting to the finish line first.
Turn Meter = distance
Speed = rate of travel
Turn Meter Gain = shortcut of distance
I don't understand how this is in any way simpler than 302/0.9 but to each their own.