Grand Arena Megathread

Replies

  • Ultra
    4440 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Please fix the broken matchup algorithm.

    This GA there is one of the 8 of us who has 7*, g12+ Revan AND HMF. The other 7 have neither. He also has 7* g12+ Mission, Z, etc - none of the other 7 have ANY of those at 7* How is that even possible?

    I'll report back to let you know which of the 8 of us wins. lolol.

    He can’t even use HMF in this GA so how is that even relevant?

    Way to completely miss the larger point.

    There are certain characters/ships/gear levels that should be weighted in the match up algorithm - Revan, g12+ gear, 6 star mods, HMF all being examples - as all tend to be extremely powerful when matched up 1 on 1 with someone whose roster lacks them.

    A roster that has Revan, will automatically, just by virtue of having him, will require one more strong offensive team.
    I disagree. Some toons are stronger but the algorithm shouldn't change over it. Complaining this guy has a 7 star mission and zaalbar while others don't isn't fair to the guy who farmed those two. Giving each toon a weight and asking for an exact pairing is silly. The worth of every toon is very subjective, and they might be poor on paper but strong in a certain team, so I guess the algorithm should adjust weight of each toon by looking at each player's gear levels and stars for each possible combination of team too? I think comparing Gear Levels and blaming the algorithm is silly. Everyone is capable of gearing toons to g12 without a credit card. You should be able to gear up your mission and zaalbar too. I mean, at this point, its the 7 people to be blamed for not prioritizing those two instead of blaming the game for pitting you against someone that does have them.

    I've seen people facing Revan teams in Grand Arena without having a Revan of their own and still win
  • Gorem wrote: »
    Just because a handful amount of small people who have actually gotten good matchmaking happened, it doesn't mean its a flawless system. It doesn't suddenly make it "good". Every single time you see a post of 100k GP differences in crew power, it means its not working. Matchmaking is Objectively not working, not based on peoples bias.

    The better idea would be to always include ships in every GA, so if they count that towards GP matchmaking, everyone is happy not just the usual white knights who defend everything.

    If you read my earlier post, I had two matches that were against players with more g12. Almost double. I still won. So it is possible. The fact remains that you can't possibly match every possible factor.

    And straight gp is as fair as anything to go by. It rewards those who develop their rosters with slightlt better rewards and encourages those that don't to do so with the chance of better rewards next time.

    Same crap over and over. I have been gearing my teams as hard as I can. I have over 3.5 mil gp and i get matchups that i can't even come close to competing against due to a handful of toons that i have no answer for or the power to defend against. It's not a focus problem by far. I have a lot of gear 12, 7* toons but fully geared legendaries that if your extremely lucky to beat are the biggest reason for all my losses due to not being able to acquire them yet. My guild is growing and farming but takes time. So focus isn't the problem, it's a gp factor problem. Tired of Grand Arena myself and pretty much just throw garbage on defense just to try to scrap a win but most of the time it's a wipeout. BORING!
  • I love getting put up against people with all the God Toons and God mods. All I can say is I understand the people who hit join and just collect rewards. I've gotten to the point where if I see Revan, I just take the loss
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    Zyppah wrote: »
    Gorem wrote: »
    Just because a handful amount of small people who have actually gotten good matchmaking happened, it doesn't mean its a flawless system. It doesn't suddenly make it "good". Every single time you see a post of 100k GP differences in crew power, it means its not working. Matchmaking is Objectively not working, not based on peoples bias.

    The better idea would be to always include ships in every GA, so if they count that towards GP matchmaking, everyone is happy not just the usual white knights who defend everything.

    If you read my earlier post, I had two matches that were against players with more g12. Almost double. I still won. So it is possible. The fact remains that you can't possibly match every possible factor.

    And straight gp is as fair as anything to go by. It rewards those who develop their rosters with slightlt better rewards and encourages those that don't to do so with the chance of better rewards next time.

    Same crap over and over. I have been gearing my teams as hard as I can. I have over 3.5 mil gp and i get matchups that i can't even come close to competing against due to a handful of toons that i have no answer for or the power to defend against. It's not a focus problem by far. I have a lot of gear 12, 7* toons but fully geared legendaries that if your extremely lucky to beat are the biggest reason for all my losses due to not being able to acquire them yet. My guild is growing and farming but takes time. So focus isn't the problem, it's a gp factor problem. Tired of Grand Arena myself and pretty much just throw garbage on defense just to try to scrap a win but most of the time it's a wipeout. BORING!

    What toons are those?
  • Nikoms565
    11927 posts Member
    edited January 23
    Ultra wrote: »

    I've seen people facing Revan teams in Grand Arena without having a Revan of their own and still win
    Post a legit pic of the rosters and final standings and I'll apoligize to CG and admit that the match up algorithm is working splendidly.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • No_Try
    4005 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »

    I've seen people facing Revan teams in Grand Arena without having a Revan of their own and still win
    Post a legit pic of the rosters AFF final standings and I'll apoligize to CG and admit that the match up algorithm is working splendidly.

    Hope this does it as an absolute proof

  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »

    I've seen people facing Revan teams in Grand Arena without having a Revan of their own and still win
    Post a legit pic of the rosters and final standings and I'll apoligize to CG and admit that the match up algorithm is working splendidly.

    I've faced two 😂 it's not that difficult
  • Rename the game mode. There is nothing grand about beating people who do not even defend themselves.
  • Dk_rek
    3224 posts Member
    Gannon wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »

    I've seen people facing Revan teams in Grand Arena without having a Revan of their own and still win
    Post a legit pic of the rosters and final standings and I'll apoligize to CG and admit that the match up algorithm is working splendidly.

    I've faced two 😂 it's not that difficult

    Well if everyone was just as awesome and best and got gud as you.... you would win a lot less so you should be thankful about all the top rewards your getting and realize your just the awesome minority...

    Im jelly

    I have 350k more ship GP my guy has 400k more squad GP than me so he get 10 free attacks before it evens out.... 10 team handicap on “fair matchup”




  • Kilo_Ren wrote: »
    My first match is against a player with a GP **** near 1 million more than mine. How is this matching me with a player at or around the same GP as mine? I don't even care that he has Revan and I don't. I can beat Revan. BUT, **** almost 1 million more GP? That is an outrageous advantage.

    Is this comparison from looking at his roster in game (in GA, hit the button under rewards, then click on your opponent, this will show you their roster).

    If this is from looking at SWGOH.gg, its possible there are more than one person with that name and you have the wrong one

    Dang, yeah you're right. Dude had such a unique looking name. But, I take back my statement saying my opponent heavily out GP'd my team. Match making seems to be at or around everyone's GP and is working as advertised. Such a noob mistake not looking at the roster directly.
  • Gannon wrote: »
    Zyppah wrote: »
    Gorem wrote: »
    Just because a handful amount of small people who have actually gotten good matchmaking happened, it doesn't mean its a flawless system. It doesn't suddenly make it "good". Every single time you see a post of 100k GP differences in crew power, it means its not working. Matchmaking is Objectively not working, not based on peoples bias.

    The better idea would be to always include ships in every GA, so if they count that towards GP matchmaking, everyone is happy not just the usual white knights who defend everything.

    If you read my earlier post, I had two matches that were against players with more g12. Almost double. I still won. So it is possible. The fact remains that you can't possibly match every possible factor.

    And straight gp is as fair as anything to go by. It rewards those who develop their rosters with slightlt better rewards and encourages those that don't to do so with the chance of better rewards next time.

    Same crap over and over. I have been gearing my teams as hard as I can. I have over 3.5 mil gp and i get matchups that i can't even come close to competing against due to a handful of toons that i have no answer for or the power to defend against. It's not a focus problem by far. I have a lot of gear 12, 7* toons but fully geared legendaries that if your extremely lucky to beat are the biggest reason for all my losses due to not being able to acquire them yet. My guild is growing and farming but takes time. So focus isn't the problem, it's a gp factor problem. Tired of Grand Arena myself and pretty much just throw garbage on defense just to try to scrap a win but most of the time it's a wipeout. BORING!

    What toons are those?

    Wampa and treya alone can pretty much wipe me out when fully geared and mods. I hate grabs arena for this point. Smaller guilds like mine trying to grow cant fight in wars due to not enough people anymore due to drop outs and lack of participation lockouts therefore cant get wampa unlocked or farm as fast for toons needed, let alone take on heroic sith. Long story short we have power and good players with high gp yet are punished by dev requirements on wars so we farm slower. People from larger guilds get the advantage hands down. We are the punching bag.
  • Ultra
    4440 posts Member
    Sounds like you need to switch guilds
  • Axxel
    7 posts Member
    edited January 23
    i like GA .. but i miss 2 things ..
    a) just count on the wins/losses ... and try to combine against players with almost same GM and win/loss ratio (may with different prices top tier - medium tier - low tier)

    b) i hate players who dont set up defence - i would say no defence no reward (how the hell i should finish my quests if everyone dont set defence)

    just my 2 cent ...

  • I don't care much about Trayas and Revans, people who got them deserve to use them. I have neither Traya nor Revan, but it is my own 'fault'.

    But matchmaking by total GP while there are no ship battles at all is a different thing.
    Even when it was 5 vs 5 with one ship territory, having a bit more GP in characters can be an advantage.
    But in 5 vs 5 you can somewhat compensate with a good team composition and some strategy, and you have that ships territory. In 3 vs 3 with no ships, when an individual characters gear and stars weigh a bit more in general - it just sucks.
    Right now my opponents have 85k to 300k more character GP. And now I really want to ignore the next rounds. I am not going to, and I'll try to fight, but it seems pointless.

  • Member5973
    127 posts Member
    edited January 23
    I don't care much about Trayas and Revans, people who got them deserve to use them. I have neither Traya nor Revan, but it is my own 'fault'.

    But matchmaking by total GP while there are no ship battles at all is a different thing.
    Even when it was 5 vs 5 with one ship territory, having a bit more GP in characters can be an advantage.
    But in 5 vs 5 you can somewhat compensate with a good team composition and some strategy, and you have that ships territory. In 3 vs 3 with no ships, when an individual characters gear and stars weigh a bit more in general - it just sucks.
    Right now my opponents have 85k to 300k more character GP. And now I really want to ignore the next rounds. I am not going to, and I'll try to fight, but it seems pointless.

    It´s not only GP. My current opponent has 80k more GP. But only 35 G12 compared to my 71. And only 30 zetas compared to my 49. This matchup is pointless, even more so in a 3vs3 setup. I can put 30 G12 toons and lots of zetas on defense and have enough for offense. My opponent cant do this. Basically he has no chance to beat me. In 5vs5 he might try to lure me into a trap. In 3vs3 giving up is the only rational and efficient action. Why waste time and energy on a lost cause?

    I really wonder why the devs do not care about these aspects. It´s all about competition all the time and the environment is insufficient. Imagine you want to attend an athletics competition and you get grouped by height. And then you ask yourself why you, at age 12 and 5.7 ft, should go against someone else at at 5.7 ft but age 27.

    To present a solution: if you would combine GP with a concept of the type GINI-Coefficient/Lorentz curve you had measure for distribution of GP. With this method you could match people more adequately. And there is more potential to improve the matching.
  • Liath
    4942 posts Member

    In other news, they need to match people with those who have Traya and those who do not. I simply don't care what the GP is because it doesn't matter when you stick OP toons in the game. It really comes down Traya and maybe three other toons. If you have them you can compete. If you don't have them, you can have 500K more GP and it absolutely does not matter.

    Capital Games has emasculated that much of our rosters.

    People need to give up this idea. The folks that pay to get the premium characters often do so in order to get an advantage in PvP areas over those that don’t. Taking away that advantage by only matching them against each other is a bad idea for the game and never going to happen. It’s the same reason the requests that whales be split off from regular arena have never gone anywhere and never will.
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »
    Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Please fix the broken matchup algorithm.

    This GA there is one of the 8 of us who has 7*, g12+ Revan AND HMF. The other 7 have neither. He also has 7* g12+ Mission, Z, etc - none of the other 7 have ANY of those at 7* How is that even possible?

    I'll report back to let you know which of the 8 of us wins. lolol.

    He can’t even use HMF in this GA so how is that even relevant?

    Way to completely miss the larger point.

    There are certain characters/ships/gear levels that should be weighted in the match up algorithm - Revan, g12+ gear, 6 star mods, HMF all being examples - as all tend to be extremely powerful when matched up 1 on 1 with someone whose roster lacks them.

    A roster that has Revan, will automatically, just by virtue of having him, will require one more strong offensive team.

    As noted above, I disagree with the “larger point,” but I further find it ridiculous that you are complaining about your opponent having an advantage due to having a ship that he can’t use and that is, if anything, a *disadvantage* in this GA since it represents about 50k GP that is affecting his matching and giving him zero benefit.
  • Zyppah wrote: »
    Gorem wrote: »
    Just because a handful amount of small people who have actually gotten good matchmaking happened, it doesn't mean its a flawless system. It doesn't suddenly make it "good". Every single time you see a post of 100k GP differences in crew power, it means its not working. Matchmaking is Objectively not working, not based on peoples bias.

    The better idea would be to always include ships in every GA, so if they count that towards GP matchmaking, everyone is happy not just the usual white knights who defend everything.

    If you read my earlier post, I had two matches that were against players with more g12. Almost double. I still won. So it is possible. The fact remains that you can't possibly match every possible factor.

    And straight gp is as fair as anything to go by. It rewards those who develop their rosters with slightlt better rewards and encourages those that don't to do so with the chance of better rewards next time.

    Same crap over and over. I have been gearing my teams as hard as I can. I have over 3.5 mil gp and i get matchups that i can't even come close to competing against due to a handful of toons that i have no answer for or the power to defend against. It's not a focus problem by far. I have a lot of gear 12, 7* toons but fully geared legendaries that if your extremely lucky to beat are the biggest reason for all my losses due to not being able to acquire them yet. My guild is growing and farming but takes time. So focus isn't the problem, it's a gp factor problem. Tired of Grand Arena myself and pretty much just throw garbage on defense just to try to scrap a win but most of the time it's a wipeout. BORING!

    I'm at 3.2 mil gp and have all the legendaries except revan (and my traya is only 6 stars). I'll have revan when he returns since I'm just waiting on the event. If my farming goes right, I'll have the next op character ftp the first time. (Though that requirires a lot of my assumptions to be correct which may or may not be the case.)

    But the point is that you can get all the legendaries at or below your gp. The fact that you didn't is on you. The fact that many of your opponents did shows you are behind the curve on that part of the game. It isn't a match making issue. It's a focus issue that causes you to lose.
  • Dk_rek wrote: »
    There is 0 argument for having ship GP count when there are no ships... its indefensible. Those who do are just protecting their outrageous advantage and sucking up free gear...

    Its trash

    If they decided to exclude ship gp as you say, I wouldn't complain. However, I don't believe it is that big of an issue. I have a fairly high ship gp for my total gp (high enough to take 1st with a ds fleet, get the falcoln, and switch to a rebel fleet and still take first). But even in the matches where my ship gp is higher, when I compare my stats to my opponent, I usually have a goid chance of winning on paper. Most of the time that pans out. Sometimes I hit a defense I can't break because I didn't save enough. Usually when that haooens my opponent also has trouble on offense so it's pretty fair.

    There have been a few matchups where I was outclassed on paper and some where my opponent was an easy win. That's the law of averages when you use one factor to match.

    So, I'm not saying your idea is bad. But the devs may have their reasons for how they coded the matchmaking. Most likely just because it is easier to leave the matchmaking the same for all ga rather than change it everytime based on what is req for that event.

    And at this point they would have to spend a fair amount of development time to change the matchmaking. That time would be better spent on qol updates or more content in my opinion.

    Just a difference in priorities really. Having beaten most all the pve content and having it on farm, I think we need more challenging content. And time spent in fixing an issue that is a minor one would keep us from getting more content.
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    Zyppah wrote: »
    Gorem wrote: »
    Just because a handful amount of small people who have actually gotten good matchmaking happened, it doesn't mean its a flawless system. It doesn't suddenly make it "good". Every single time you see a post of 100k GP differences in crew power, it means its not working. Matchmaking is Objectively not working, not based on peoples bias.

    The better idea would be to always include ships in every GA, so if they count that towards GP matchmaking, everyone is happy not just the usual white knights who defend everything.

    If you read my earlier post, I had two matches that were against players with more g12. Almost double. I still won. So it is possible. The fact remains that you can't possibly match every possible factor.

    And straight gp is as fair as anything to go by. It rewards those who develop their rosters with slightlt better rewards and encourages those that don't to do so with the chance of better rewards next time.

    Same crap over and over. I have been gearing my teams as hard as I can. I have over 3.5 mil gp and i get matchups that i can't even come close to competing against due to a handful of toons that i have no answer for or the power to defend against. It's not a focus problem by far. I have a lot of gear 12, 7* toons but fully geared legendaries that if your extremely lucky to beat are the biggest reason for all my losses due to not being able to acquire them yet. My guild is growing and farming but takes time. So focus isn't the problem, it's a gp factor problem. Tired of Grand Arena myself and pretty much just throw garbage on defense just to try to scrap a win but most of the time it's a wipeout. BORING!

    I'm at 3.2 mil gp and have all the legendaries except revan (and my traya is only 6 stars). I'll have revan when he returns since I'm just waiting on the event. If my farming goes right, I'll have the next op character ftp the first time. (Though that requirires a lot of my assumptions to be correct which may or may not be the case.)

    But the point is that you can get all the legendaries at or below your gp. The fact that you didn't is on you. The fact that many of your opponents did shows you are behind the curve on that part of the game. It isn't a match making issue. It's a focus issue that causes you to lose.

    Exactly! Also, I wanted to point out that I only recently got traya, she's not geared yet. In all that time, I wasn't just sitting on my hands waiting to get her and revan, I was finding the best counter teams so I could kill those teams easily long before I got them myself. You don't need to mirror match to beat those teams.
  • Gannon wrote: »
    Zyppah wrote: »
    Gorem wrote: »
    Just because a handful amount of small people who have actually gotten good matchmaking happened, it doesn't mean its a flawless system. It doesn't suddenly make it "good". Every single time you see a post of 100k GP differences in crew power, it means its not working. Matchmaking is Objectively not working, not based on peoples bias.

    The better idea would be to always include ships in every GA, so if they count that towards GP matchmaking, everyone is happy not just the usual white knights who defend everything.

    If you read my earlier post, I had two matches that were against players with more g12. Almost double. I still won. So it is possible. The fact remains that you can't possibly match every possible factor.

    And straight gp is as fair as anything to go by. It rewards those who develop their rosters with slightlt better rewards and encourages those that don't to do so with the chance of better rewards next time.

    Same crap over and over. I have been gearing my teams as hard as I can. I have over 3.5 mil gp and i get matchups that i can't even come close to competing against due to a handful of toons that i have no answer for or the power to defend against. It's not a focus problem by far. I have a lot of gear 12, 7* toons but fully geared legendaries that if your extremely lucky to beat are the biggest reason for all my losses due to not being able to acquire them yet. My guild is growing and farming but takes time. So focus isn't the problem, it's a gp factor problem. Tired of Grand Arena myself and pretty much just throw garbage on defense just to try to scrap a win but most of the time it's a wipeout. BORING!

    I'm at 3.2 mil gp and have all the legendaries except revan (and my traya is only 6 stars). I'll have revan when he returns since I'm just waiting on the event. If my farming goes right, I'll have the next op character ftp the first time. (Though that requirires a lot of my assumptions to be correct which may or may not be the case.)

    But the point is that you can get all the legendaries at or below your gp. The fact that you didn't is on you. The fact that many of your opponents did shows you are behind the curve on that part of the game. It isn't a match making issue. It's a focus issue that causes you to lose.

    Exactly! Also, I wanted to point out that I only recently got traya, she's not geared yet. In all that time, I wasn't just sitting on my hands waiting to get her and revan, I was finding the best counter teams so I could kill those teams easily long before I got them myself. You don't need to mirror match to beat those teams.

    No you don't. I got quite adept at beating traya with ep lead without traya before I got her.

    And I am quite good at beating revan with traya.

    Though it is mod dependent. If they have revan and god mods you're pretty well screwed. But it's only one team. You can still focus and clear the other side. Then your defense may hold better. Very few players have enough god mods to cover more than a few teams.
  • No_Try
    4005 posts Member
    Dk_rek wrote: »
    There is 0 argument for having ship GP count when there are no ships... its indefensible. Those who do are just protecting their outrageous advantage and sucking up free gear...

    Its trash

    If they decided to exclude ship gp as you say, I wouldn't complain. However, I don't believe it is that big of an issue. I have a fairly high ship gp for my total gp (high enough to take 1st with a ds fleet, get the falcoln, and switch to a rebel fleet and still take first). But even in the matches where my ship gp is higher, when I compare my stats to my opponent, I usually have a goid chance of winning on paper. Most of the time that pans out. Sometimes I hit a defense I can't break because I didn't save enough. Usually when that haooens my opponent also has trouble on offense so it's pretty fair.

    There have been a few matchups where I was outclassed on paper and some where my opponent was an easy win. That's the law of averages when you use one factor to match.

    So, I'm not saying your idea is bad. But the devs may have their reasons for how they coded the matchmaking. Most likely just because it is easier to leave the matchmaking the same for all ga rather than change it everytime based on what is req for that event.

    And at this point they would have to spend a fair amount of development time to change the matchmaking. That time would be better spent on qol updates or more content in my opinion.

    Just a difference in priorities really. Having beaten most all the pve content and having it on farm, I think we need more challenging content. And time spent in fixing an issue that is a minor one would keep us from getting more content.

    What development time exactly? People are not even asking for a new matchmaking method in this instance, just that ship gp not to be counted if they aren't involved in the event.

    Your case is hardly universal, the lesser GP you go, the more glaring this problem can become as has been illustrated by many folks in real cases.

    Btw thought I had you in my league for a moment xD

    doha24dyjz92.png
  • Gannon
    1473 posts Member
    Gannon wrote: »
    Zyppah wrote: »
    Gorem wrote: »
    Just because a handful amount of small people who have actually gotten good matchmaking happened, it doesn't mean its a flawless system. It doesn't suddenly make it "good". Every single time you see a post of 100k GP differences in crew power, it means its not working. Matchmaking is Objectively not working, not based on peoples bias.

    The better idea would be to always include ships in every GA, so if they count that towards GP matchmaking, everyone is happy not just the usual white knights who defend everything.

    If you read my earlier post, I had two matches that were against players with more g12. Almost double. I still won. So it is possible. The fact remains that you can't possibly match every possible factor.

    And straight gp is as fair as anything to go by. It rewards those who develop their rosters with slightlt better rewards and encourages those that don't to do so with the chance of better rewards next time.

    Same crap over and over. I have been gearing my teams as hard as I can. I have over 3.5 mil gp and i get matchups that i can't even come close to competing against due to a handful of toons that i have no answer for or the power to defend against. It's not a focus problem by far. I have a lot of gear 12, 7* toons but fully geared legendaries that if your extremely lucky to beat are the biggest reason for all my losses due to not being able to acquire them yet. My guild is growing and farming but takes time. So focus isn't the problem, it's a gp factor problem. Tired of Grand Arena myself and pretty much just throw garbage on defense just to try to scrap a win but most of the time it's a wipeout. BORING!

    I'm at 3.2 mil gp and have all the legendaries except revan (and my traya is only 6 stars). I'll have revan when he returns since I'm just waiting on the event. If my farming goes right, I'll have the next op character ftp the first time. (Though that requirires a lot of my assumptions to be correct which may or may not be the case.)

    But the point is that you can get all the legendaries at or below your gp. The fact that you didn't is on you. The fact that many of your opponents did shows you are behind the curve on that part of the game. It isn't a match making issue. It's a focus issue that causes you to lose.

    Exactly! Also, I wanted to point out that I only recently got traya, she's not geared yet. In all that time, I wasn't just sitting on my hands waiting to get her and revan, I was finding the best counter teams so I could kill those teams easily long before I got them myself. You don't need to mirror match to beat those teams.

    No you don't. I got quite adept at beating traya with ep lead without traya before I got her.

    And I am quite good at beating revan with traya.

    Though it is mod dependent. If they have revan and god mods you're pretty well screwed. But it's only one team. You can still focus and clear the other side. Then your defense may hold better. Very few players have enough god mods to cover more than a few teams.

    Yea traya has gotten pretty easy now, thanks to palp, magma thrawn, and Phoenix all easy counters.
    Revan is another story tho, I'll be honest. I never get to fight them much tho, so bast is my go to. Been lucky so far cuz it's always worked, but I'm sure there's harder counters
  • No_Try wrote: »
    Dk_rek wrote: »
    There is 0 argument for having ship GP count when there are no ships... its indefensible. Those who do are just protecting their outrageous advantage and sucking up free gear...

    Its trash

    If they decided to exclude ship gp as you say, I wouldn't complain. However, I don't believe it is that big of an issue. I have a fairly high ship gp for my total gp (high enough to take 1st with a ds fleet, get the falcoln, and switch to a rebel fleet and still take first). But even in the matches where my ship gp is higher, when I compare my stats to my opponent, I usually have a goid chance of winning on paper. Most of the time that pans out. Sometimes I hit a defense I can't break because I didn't save enough. Usually when that haooens my opponent also has trouble on offense so it's pretty fair.

    There have been a few matchups where I was outclassed on paper and some where my opponent was an easy win. That's the law of averages when you use one factor to match.

    So, I'm not saying your idea is bad. But the devs may have their reasons for how they coded the matchmaking. Most likely just because it is easier to leave the matchmaking the same for all ga rather than change it everytime based on what is req for that event.

    And at this point they would have to spend a fair amount of development time to change the matchmaking. That time would be better spent on qol updates or more content in my opinion.

    Just a difference in priorities really. Having beaten most all the pve content and having it on farm, I think we need more challenging content. And time spent in fixing an issue that is a minor one would keep us from getting more content.

    What development time exactly? People are not even asking for a new matchmaking method in this instance, just that ship gp not to be counted if they aren't involved in the event.

    Your case is hardly universal, the lesser GP you go, the more glaring this problem can become as has been illustrated by many folks in real cases.

    Btw thought I had you in my league for a moment xD

    doha24dyjz92.png

    Nope my picture is different.

    And I'm not sure how much coding is involved in switching the algorithm based on what they put in the ga.

    But I doubt they already have that coded in. Likely they decided that total gp was good enough. So at this point they would have to do more coding and more testing. And that takes time. I would rather have that time spent on other things. Especially considering that if the pattern holds, the ships are only excluded from very 3rd ga and the ga is only run once a month.

    So we're talking about a mode that is run once every 3 months going forward.

    And as far as matchmaking issues, there will always be extreme cases on the fringes. Assuming an even distribution of ga effectivness in a gp matching range, you could look at it as a bell curve. 90 percent or more fall in the middle range with somewhat effective but not stellar squads. 5 percent fall in the super good squad range, and 5 percent fall in the bad squads range.

    Now if someone from the top 5 percent is matched with someone from the bottom 5 percent, then the matchmaking sucks for that particular match. But the odds of that happening is rare. And it is the exception not the rule. Most are matched with those that have similar rosters.

    Ship gp vs character gp is just another factor. When averaged with all the other factors, 95 percent of the matches or more are probably fine. Obviously, we don't have the data to see this but I'm pretty sure cg does. And if it's only a small percentage of players getting uneven matchups then it is not worth the time or cost to change it.

    Now the bottom 5 percent will likely have uneven matchups more often just by being on the fringe of the bell curve as will the top 5 percent. But the vast majority of the player base fall in the middle and have even matchups. If you are on the stronger side, you get weaker opponents just by the fact that there are more weaker opponents than stronger ones.

    Now, I know this is an over simplification and there are assumptions made but I believe that is accurate representation of a single factor matchmaking.

    Now they could add several factors to get it almost perfect but I don't think that's desirable. It removed all incentive to improve your roster if you face an identical one each time.
  • No_Try
    4005 posts Member
    No_Try wrote: »
    Dk_rek wrote: »
    There is 0 argument for having ship GP count when there are no ships... its indefensible. Those who do are just protecting their outrageous advantage and sucking up free gear...

    Its trash

    If they decided to exclude ship gp as you say, I wouldn't complain. However, I don't believe it is that big of an issue. I have a fairly high ship gp for my total gp (high enough to take 1st with a ds fleet, get the falcoln, and switch to a rebel fleet and still take first). But even in the matches where my ship gp is higher, when I compare my stats to my opponent, I usually have a goid chance of winning on paper. Most of the time that pans out. Sometimes I hit a defense I can't break because I didn't save enough. Usually when that haooens my opponent also has trouble on offense so it's pretty fair.

    There have been a few matchups where I was outclassed on paper and some where my opponent was an easy win. That's the law of averages when you use one factor to match.

    So, I'm not saying your idea is bad. But the devs may have their reasons for how they coded the matchmaking. Most likely just because it is easier to leave the matchmaking the same for all ga rather than change it everytime based on what is req for that event.

    And at this point they would have to spend a fair amount of development time to change the matchmaking. That time would be better spent on qol updates or more content in my opinion.

    Just a difference in priorities really. Having beaten most all the pve content and having it on farm, I think we need more challenging content. And time spent in fixing an issue that is a minor one would keep us from getting more content.

    What development time exactly? People are not even asking for a new matchmaking method in this instance, just that ship gp not to be counted if they aren't involved in the event.

    Your case is hardly universal, the lesser GP you go, the more glaring this problem can become as has been illustrated by many folks in real cases.

    Btw thought I had you in my league for a moment xD

    doha24dyjz92.png

    Nope my picture is different.

    And I'm not sure how much coding is involved in switching the algorithm based on what they put in the ga.

    But I doubt they already have that coded in. Likely they decided that total gp was good enough. So at this point they would have to do more coding and more testing. And that takes time. I would rather have that time spent on other things. Especially considering that if the pattern holds, the ships are only excluded from very 3rd ga and the ga is only run once a month.

    So we're talking about a mode that is run once every 3 months going forward.

    And as far as matchmaking issues, there will always be extreme cases on the fringes. Assuming an even distribution of ga effectivness in a gp matching range, you could look at it as a bell curve. 90 percent or more fall in the middle range with somewhat effective but not stellar squads. 5 percent fall in the super good squad range, and 5 percent fall in the bad squads range.

    Now if someone from the top 5 percent is matched with someone from the bottom 5 percent, then the matchmaking sucks for that particular match. But the odds of that happening is rare. And it is the exception not the rule. Most are matched with those that have similar rosters.

    Ship gp vs character gp is just another factor. When averaged with all the other factors, 95 percent of the matches or more are probably fine. Obviously, we don't have the data to see this but I'm pretty sure cg does. And if it's only a small percentage of players getting uneven matchups then it is not worth the time or cost to change it.

    Now the bottom 5 percent will likely have uneven matchups more often just by being on the fringe of the bell curve as will the top 5 percent. But the vast majority of the player base fall in the middle and have even matchups. If you are on the stronger side, you get weaker opponents just by the fact that there are more weaker opponents than stronger ones.

    Now, I know this is an over simplification and there are assumptions made but I believe that is accurate representation of a single factor matchmaking.

    Now they could add several factors to get it almost perfect but I don't think that's desirable. It removed all incentive to improve your roster if you face an identical one each time.

    I think your representation of the subject is weird. You are assuming there is a curve where the middle is getting the desirable match-ups and there will be outliers...which is true for any distribution or any method of matchmaking. However what I meant by skewed matchups (due to ship GP) as you go to lesser GPs have nothing to do with that. It's only due to a few 100ks of GP makes much more difference in their GP range than mine. Say my roster is %60 complete and I get matched by a %70 complete one, this won't be the same as the match between a %10 vs %20 one. I've yet to see a veteran who simply doesn't touch ships and develops none.

    In an event where both squads and ships are used you can simply say it's the player's choice where they put the emphasis. In this event it's like some random value is added to the active GP used in the event and you are being matched based on that.

    Your assumption in the event frequency is random. We don't know how often a similar situation will present itself. The sooner the problem is ailed, the better. They can design a ships only GA, who knows...

    Only work heavy thing on the resolution is the implementation stage. The system already actively calculates every bit of things that contribute to the 1 number that's your GP. Now it will have to store 2 numbers instead. There is zero amount of development and only a few lines of code to be added.

    Anyway I'm rather sure this will be the first ever change we see in GA along with the auto deployment issue that keeps going back and forth. It's such a glaring error.
  • No_Try wrote: »
    No_Try wrote: »
    Dk_rek wrote: »
    There is 0 argument for having ship GP count when there are no ships... its indefensible. Those who do are just protecting their outrageous advantage and sucking up free gear...

    Its trash

    If they decided to exclude ship gp as you say, I wouldn't complain. However, I don't believe it is that big of an issue. I have a fairly high ship gp for my total gp (high enough to take 1st with a ds fleet, get the falcoln, and switch to a rebel fleet and still take first). But even in the matches where my ship gp is higher, when I compare my stats to my opponent, I usually have a goid chance of winning on paper. Most of the time that pans out. Sometimes I hit a defense I can't break because I didn't save enough. Usually when that haooens my opponent also has trouble on offense so it's pretty fair.

    There have been a few matchups where I was outclassed on paper and some where my opponent was an easy win. That's the law of averages when you use one factor to match.

    So, I'm not saying your idea is bad. But the devs may have their reasons for how they coded the matchmaking. Most likely just because it is easier to leave the matchmaking the same for all ga rather than change it everytime based on what is req for that event.

    And at this point they would have to spend a fair amount of development time to change the matchmaking. That time would be better spent on qol updates or more content in my opinion.

    Just a difference in priorities really. Having beaten most all the pve content and having it on farm, I think we need more challenging content. And time spent in fixing an issue that is a minor one would keep us from getting more content.

    What development time exactly? People are not even asking for a new matchmaking method in this instance, just that ship gp not to be counted if they aren't involved in the event.

    Your case is hardly universal, the lesser GP you go, the more glaring this problem can become as has been illustrated by many folks in real cases.

    Btw thought I had you in my league for a moment xD

    doha24dyjz92.png

    Nope my picture is different.

    And I'm not sure how much coding is involved in switching the algorithm based on what they put in the ga.

    But I doubt they already have that coded in. Likely they decided that total gp was good enough. So at this point they would have to do more coding and more testing. And that takes time. I would rather have that time spent on other things. Especially considering that if the pattern holds, the ships are only excluded from very 3rd ga and the ga is only run once a month.

    So we're talking about a mode that is run once every 3 months going forward.

    And as far as matchmaking issues, there will always be extreme cases on the fringes. Assuming an even distribution of ga effectivness in a gp matching range, you could look at it as a bell curve. 90 percent or more fall in the middle range with somewhat effective but not stellar squads. 5 percent fall in the super good squad range, and 5 percent fall in the bad squads range.

    Now if someone from the top 5 percent is matched with someone from the bottom 5 percent, then the matchmaking sucks for that particular match. But the odds of that happening is rare. And it is the exception not the rule. Most are matched with those that have similar rosters.

    Ship gp vs character gp is just another factor. When averaged with all the other factors, 95 percent of the matches or more are probably fine. Obviously, we don't have the data to see this but I'm pretty sure cg does. And if it's only a small percentage of players getting uneven matchups then it is not worth the time or cost to change it.

    Now the bottom 5 percent will likely have uneven matchups more often just by being on the fringe of the bell curve as will the top 5 percent. But the vast majority of the player base fall in the middle and have even matchups. If you are on the stronger side, you get weaker opponents just by the fact that there are more weaker opponents than stronger ones.

    Now, I know this is an over simplification and there are assumptions made but I believe that is accurate representation of a single factor matchmaking.

    Now they could add several factors to get it almost perfect but I don't think that's desirable. It removed all incentive to improve your roster if you face an identical one each time.

    I think your representation of the subject is weird. You are assuming there is a curve where the middle is getting the desirable match-ups and there will be outliers...which is true for any distribution or any method of matchmaking. However what I meant by skewed matchups (due to ship GP) as you go to lesser GPs have nothing to do with that. It's only due to a few 100ks of GP makes much more difference in their GP range than mine. Say my roster is %60 complete and I get matched by a %70 complete one, this won't be the same as the match between a %10 vs %20 one. I've yet to see a veteran who simply doesn't touch ships and develops none.

    In an event where both squads and ships are used you can simply say it's the player's choice where they put the emphasis. In this event it's like some random value is added to the active GP used in the event and you are being matched based on that.

    Your assumption in the event frequency is random. We don't know how often a similar situation will present itself. The sooner the problem is ailed, the better. They can design a ships only GA, who knows...

    Only work heavy thing on the resolution is the implementation stage. The system already actively calculates every bit of things that contribute to the 1 number that's your GP. Now it will have to store 2 numbers instead. There is zero amount of development and only a few lines of code to be added.

    Anyway I'm rather sure this will be the first ever change we see in GA along with the auto deployment issue that keeps going back and forth. It's such a glaring error.

    I agree that the difference seems to be more apparent at low gp. But you can't play ga until level 85 so there shouldn't be any players that have no ships by level 85. And I still believe that the ones that have almost no ships or a crap ton of ships even at a liw gp are outliers.

    90 percent or more of the player base likely work on both ships and characters so most will have comparable ship to character gp ratios.

    There may be some that focus on ships more because they see ship arena as a good crystal source and that may temporarily hurt them in ga. But that's no different than focusing on your arena team exclusively hurting you in tw, tb,or raids temporarily.

    In the end it comes down to choosing your focus. All players have the same opportunity to choose their path and there is no one right answer.

    And as your roster grows, if done right you can florish in all aspects of the game.
  • Liath wrote: »

    In other news, they need to match people with those who have Traya and those who do not. I simply don't care what the GP is because it doesn't matter when you stick OP toons in the game. It really comes down Traya and maybe three other toons. If you have them you can compete. If you don't have them, you can have 500K more GP and it absolutely does not matter.

    Capital Games has emasculated that much of our rosters.

    People need to give up this idea. The folks that pay to get the premium characters often do so in order to get an advantage in PvP areas over those that don’t. Taking away that advantage by only matching them against each other is a bad idea for the game and never going to happen. It’s the same reason the requests that whales be split off from regular arena have never gone anywhere and never will.

    It's not at all the same request. If someone has a 7* full geared Revan and, as a result, several thousand GP higher, how are they being matched up with players of lower GP? The problem is the way GP is calculated and matched up - especially in regards to some of the newer, stronger characters. A zeta on Revan counts the same in GP as a zeta on Clone Wars Chewie - but in GA the two are not nearly the same. That's the flaw in the algorithm.

    Especially in a game mode that was introduced years after launch. Older players geared up characters that were needed at different points in the game for different metas, different events - some of which no longer exist. But since you can't "ungear" or "unlevel" players that have "wider" rosters are being matched up against stronger rostered players.

    If GA is simply another game mode to reward whales over f2p, and it's WAI, then fine. As I said, it's CG's game to mess with as they see fit. But if that's the case, then CG, please give us more crappy TW in GA's place then.

    If GA is simply going to be a game mode that hands out good gear to those that have Revan, then it's simply a different iteration of the poor top-heavy HSith reward structure. Cool.

    Another reason I will be making my account "available" soon.





    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • But what it really boils down to is a time vs benefit analysis of wheter it's worth it to change the matchmaking process.

    Now I agree it probably is on the lower side of the time if they just do the ship gp issue. But other options like revamping how gp is calculated is likely further up there.

    And on the benefit side you really need raw data to know how many are effected. The real argument on here is some think it's a big issue while others don't.

    Then finally we also don't knowvwhat else there is for alternatives for the time and effort spent changing matchmaking would be. I have a long list of things I'd like to see more than this. Mostly, new and harder comtent since I'm at end game and run out of challenges. Newer players likely feel differently since they have plenty of stuff to do.

    It's a balancing act on what helps the most and none of us have the information to say definitively what they need to do. So if they change the matchmaking, fine. If they don't fine.
  • But what it really boils down to is a time vs benefit analysis of wheter it's worth it to change the matchmaking process.

    Now I agree it probably is on the lower side of the time if they just do the ship gp issue. But other options like revamping how gp is calculated is likely further up there.

    And on the benefit side you really need raw data to know how many are effected. The real argument on here is some think it's a big issue while others don't.

    Then finally we also don't knowvwhat else there is for alternatives for the time and effort spent changing matchmaking would be. I have a long list of things I'd like to see more than this. Mostly, new and harder comtent since I'm at end game and run out of challenges. Newer players likely feel differently since they have plenty of stuff to do.

    It's a balancing act on what helps the most and none of us have the information to say definitively what they need to do. So if they change the matchmaking, fine. If they don't fine.

    I agree. But simply adding a "Revan check" or a "number of g12+ toons" check or, if ships are involved, a HT and HMF check, wouldn't be that difficult. And it certainly wouldn't "unbalance" things any more than they already are.

    As I said, if it's WAI and simply intended as another game mode (like HSith) to hand out better gear/rewards to whales, then it's working perfectly. If it's designed to be a fun, competitive game mode for similarly rostered players, then it might need a tweak or two.
    In game name: Lucas Gregory - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie

    In game guild: TNR Uprising
    I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
    *This space left intentionally blank*
  • Nikoms565 wrote: »
    Liath wrote: »

    In other news, they need to match people with those who have Traya and those who do not. I simply don't care what the GP is because it doesn't matter when you stick OP toons in the game. It really comes down Traya and maybe three other toons. If you have them you can compete. If you don't have them, you can have 500K more GP and it absolutely does not matter.

    Capital Games has emasculated that much of our rosters.

    People need to give up this idea. The folks that pay to get the premium characters often do so in order to get an advantage in PvP areas over those that don’t. Taking away that advantage by only matching them against each other is a bad idea for the game and never going to happen. It’s the same reason the requests that whales be split off from regular arena have never gone anywhere and never will.

    It's not at all the same request. If someone has a 7* full geared Revan and, as a result, several thousand GP higher, how are they being matched up with players of lower GP? The problem is the way GP is calculated and matched up - especially in regards to some of the newer, stronger characters. A zeta on Revan counts the same in GP as a zeta on Clone Wars Chewie - but in GA the two are not nearly the same. That's the flaw in the algorithm.

    Especially in a game mode that was introduced years after launch. Older players geared up characters that were needed at different points in the game for different metas, different events - some of which no longer exist. But since you can't "ungear" or "unlevel" players that have "wider" rosters are being matched up against stronger rostered players.

    If GA is simply another game mode to reward whales over f2p, and it's WAI, then fine. As I said, it's CG's game to mess with as they see fit. But if that's the case, then CG, please give us more crappy TW in GA's place then.

    If GA is simply going to be a game mode that hands out good gear to those that have Revan, then it's simply a different iteration of the poor top-heavy HSith reward structure. Cool.

    Another reason I will be making my account "available" soon.





    But if you have an old account, you are also getting the new content and have multiple raids on farm, high stars in tb, and most events on farm. So there's no reason you shouldn't have recently good toons to counter revan. Your clones to revan comparison isn't really an accurate depiction of the situation.

    Most long term players are more likely to be in hstr guilds so it's more of a traya vs revan.

    If you are an older player and don't have currently good toons that's no one's fault but yours.
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