One word springs to mind.. "ooops". I wonder how much longer they can justify blaming whatever hero skill etc, instead of shutting down the Sith Raid. I think with each issue (And they are starting to pile up) they get perilously close to reaching the inevitable question of "Is the raid worth this constant barage of upset, and endless hero reworking?" Survey says: "No".
Constant barrage of hero reworking?
So far, we've had...
Zombie. And paper zombie was a problem in her own right independent of the raid.
Acolyte. A rework purely for the Sith raid.
Finn. Not landed yet, but I'll count it. But zFinn is a problem in his own right independent of the raid.
ST Han/Bonds interaction was not a rework. Reducing expose damage was not a rework. Fixing this glitch will not be a rework.
So unless I'm missing anything, that's three in a year. Only one of them purely because of the Sith raid.
Paper zombie opened the door for intelligent theory crafting and multiple different ways to use nightsisters. Coming up with creative ways to use characters should not be an issue because it makes the game more fun
zFinn was out forever before this raid and there was no issue with him until C3P0 came out and allowed players to solo phase 3 of the raid
None of the long term mechanics should be considered issues. The real issue is that they dont properly test characters and then nerf them because of some "loop" in the sith raid
The real continuous loop here is our characters getting nerfed.
Feels line this raid is a purposefully made nerf mill.
Scale back out characters so the power creep can be tamed a little.
Hell even the raids own rewards had a turn in the mill.
No as usual the whales who whales will get to abuse thebug and keep their top HSTR spots since revan is out and finn being nerfed nothing to protect whales top 10
Scores
You say they stink at testing but have not realized yet these “bugs” show up any time anyone but the whales can top 10 the raid due to progression toons becoming ftp etc..... stuff is planned
The way raid rewardsset up only for whales u think they wont protect those whales uthink whale gonn keep spendingif he is getting 11 in HSTR hahahhahahahahahah
All by design bras
Of course im mildly kidding.... but the timing is always seems to lineup wink
All the “on damage” effects were nerfed in the raid. Baze had some mechanic that fed a loop. Fives too. Who else?
Zero of those characters were reworked. They all work exactly the same as they always have. It's just the interaction between Bonds of Weakness and on-damage effects changed.
Paper zombie opened the door for intelligent theory crafting and multiple different ways to use nightsisters. Coming up with creative ways to use characters should not be an issue because it makes the game more fun
zFinn was out forever before this raid and there was no issue with him until C3P0 came out and allowed players to solo phase 3 of the raid
None of the long term mechanics should be considered issues. The real issue is that they dont properly test characters and then nerf them because of some "loop" in the sith raid
They weren't changed because of "loops." They were changed because of loops. And those loops were a problem.
Paper zombie was not clever or creative, and the exploits weren't even particularly interesting. Run a standard Nightsister team. Let zombie die a lot. Generate TM and stack Asajj and Daka's zetas. Go as long as you can. Not a lot to it, but it punished people who invested in the character in some key contexts.
The zombie rework was a buff for the faction in most respects, brought the sisters back into strong arena viability, and still works with pretty much the same lineups they had before the rework. Just now, a buff zombie is not punished like it used to be.
Guys, it's not great news that they don't test stuff before releasing it, as soon as it's not a meta destroyer. They're too busy testing darth Revan to see how can he remove the Jedi Revan meta without making an ad hoc character or ruining the game.
With all the money CG is making you would think they could afford to hire some actual testers. But it is 100% evident that they aren't hiring any testers. But I think they need new management instead first. You all are looking pretty pathetic right now.
Even with larger studios and testers, unintended interactions happen. Even in games that have a singular final product, there will be unintended interactions. In games that are continuously updated, you cannot have that same single testing battery for the entire product, and more slips through. For small studios, you can't afford the same amount of testing, so more slips through.
LinkedIn lists Capital Games as 51-200 employees. Let's assume 200 employees. Now, let's assume they are adding a new feature, and every one of those 200 employees spent nine to five non-stop testing a new feature for an entire five day work week. Not developing. Not doing other stuff. Just testing the finalized version. That's 8000 man-hours.
And that's not just trying to break the raid or topple the arena meta. That's full testing, including base functionality (does this basic that applies tenacity up to a random ally with a 50% chance to attack again once per round actually do what it says), and using the team against a selection of relevant non-meta teams like hunters or first order, which diverts some portion of those 8000 hours from things like toppling the meta or breaking the raid.
If they hired out one thousand testers to test a single game element forty hours a week for two weeks, that's 80,000 man-hours of testing, and not remotely a reasonable standard to expect from a studio that size.
r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes has 55,000 subscribers, and is a small portion of the active user base. Let's say just 20% of them actively engage the new content, whether directly or indirectly. That outstrips the man-hours of the thousand testers in an afternoon. It's not that the playerbase is consistently smarter than the devs. It's that the playerbase can cloud source breaking things.
A blanket "test more" is not the answer, especially for a small studio and can never match the man-hours the player base will pour into breaking things. The perfect is the enemy of the good, and the done. Things getting released in an imperfect state then fixed means we get more quality content in a timely manner, with some speed bumps along the way, and that's a worthwhile tradeoff.
Testing on this game has been alright by any reasonable standard. This Droideka splat is one of the first truly questionable ones in a while.
Honestly, at this point, leave everything as it is and just release Mythic raids. Make the old raids simable (rancor/tank), don’t touch Finn or anyone else, and make your mythic raids. Then you can do what ever you want from the beginning and the community will have to find new ways to beat it.
This is going to keep happening and it’s only going to get worse, creating more frustration. There is nothing you are going to release now and in the future that the community will not figure out how to use in your raids to dominate it, unless you take the suggestion above to heart. Which based on your recent actions, I guarantee you won’t.
do you guys even hire testers? your gettin paid for this ya know??
WOW. i will never buy anything from this game lol.
Wow. How many combinations of toons and different game play strategies do you suppose itnwould take to make sure each toon had no way of exploiting a glitch. Lol
do you guys even hire testers? your gettin paid for this ya know??
WOW. i will never buy anything from this game lol.
Wow. How many combinations of toons and different game play strategies do you suppose itnwould take to make sure each toon had no way of exploiting a glitch. Lol
Relax francis
Automated test scripts exist. Every toon combination can be tested at a general auto ai control, revealing anything that comes up normally, except for any specific combination of ability uses.
Or, perhaps, you know, common sense to be used. Something that is damage immune for 2 rounds may break things..
do you guys even hire testers? your gettin paid for this ya know??
WOW. i will never buy anything from this game lol.
Wow. How many combinations of toons and different game play strategies do you suppose itnwould take to make sure each toon had no way of exploiting a glitch. Lol
Relax francis
Automated test scripts exist. Every toon combination can be tested at a general auto ai control, revealing anything that comes up normally, except for any specific combination of ability uses.
Or, perhaps, you know, common sense to be used. Something that is damage immune for 2 rounds may break things..
The damage immunity is not what is causing the problem in any way. It is Droideka assisting while suppressed.
do you guys even hire testers? your gettin paid for this ya know??
WOW. i will never buy anything from this game lol.
Wow. How many combinations of toons and different game play strategies do you suppose itnwould take to make sure each toon had no way of exploiting a glitch. Lol
Relax francis
So you mean they couldn’t even test droideka in ANY phase 3 team and see this happening?
I mean seriously, stick him by himself and give him stand alone. Put him in a grevious team, cls team, I could care less what team. It’s not like they needed infinite combinations here. We are talking about 5 toons and 1 specifically no matter what team you place him in, he would have had this effect. The fact that a blatantly easy glitch like this got thru proves they don’t test anything period.
do you guys even hire testers? your gettin paid for this ya know??
WOW. i will never buy anything from this game lol.
Wow. How many combinations of toons and different game play strategies do you suppose itnwould take to make sure each toon had no way of exploiting a glitch. Lol
Relax francis
Automated test scripts exist. Every toon combination can be tested at a general auto ai control, revealing anything that comes up normally, except for any specific combination of ability uses.
Or, perhaps, you know, common sense to be used. Something that is damage immune for 2 rounds may break things..
Ive never seen an infinite probability script written let alone implemented.... Ever...
do you guys even hire testers? your gettin paid for this ya know??
WOW. i will never buy anything from this game lol.
Wow. How many combinations of toons and different game play strategies do you suppose it would take to make sure each toon had no way of exploiting a glitch. Lol
Relax francis
Automated test scripts exist. Every toon combination can be tested at a general auto ai control, revealing anything that comes up normally, except for any specific combination of ability uses.
Or, perhaps, you know, common sense to be used. Something that is damage immune for 2 rounds may break things..
Ive never seen an infinite probability script written let alone implemented.... Ever...
It's not the damage immunity that breaks things, it's the "true damage" when his speed is set to 0 but he assists before the stand-alone cuts off assists so then his damage just goes insane and traya gets wrecked. They just need to write the stand-alone script to cut off assists from B1 and Droideka earlier in the order of operations. Either that or make the speed set to 0 happen after the assist happens if they want to still allow the singular assist when an ally uses the Stand-alone ability.
do you guys even hire testers? your gettin paid for this ya know??
WOW. i will never buy anything from this game lol.
Wow. How many combinations of toons and different game play strategies do you suppose it would take to make sure each toon had no way of exploiting a glitch. Lol
Relax francis
Automated test scripts exist. Every toon combination can be tested at a general auto ai control, revealing anything that comes up normally, except for any specific combination of ability uses.
Or, perhaps, you know, common sense to be used. Something that is damage immune for 2 rounds may break things..
Ive never seen an infinite probability script written let alone implemented.... Ever...
It's not the damage immunity that breaks things, it's the "true damage" when his speed is set to 0 but he assists before the stand-alone cuts off assists so then his damage just goes insane and traya gets wrecked. They just need to write the stand-alone script to cut off assists from B1 and Droideka earlier in the order of operations. Either that or make the speed set to 0 happen after the assist happens if they want to still allow the singular assist when an ally uses the Stand-alone ability.
Actually, the assist shouldn't happen at all, and that's the bug here.
But, we also have an undergeared Droideka that allows RJT teams to wreck Revan in arena, so there's that.
They will simply change it from 0 speed to 1 speed. Problem solved. Or simply not allow assists during p3 when someone has stand alone.
Again, this is the bug. Stand Alone is supposed to stop the assists. That's why Chewie doesn't assist Han/Greedo during Stand Alone, or during the action of entering Stand Alone.
Replies
Paper zombie opened the door for intelligent theory crafting and multiple different ways to use nightsisters. Coming up with creative ways to use characters should not be an issue because it makes the game more fun
zFinn was out forever before this raid and there was no issue with him until C3P0 came out and allowed players to solo phase 3 of the raid
None of the long term mechanics should be considered issues. The real issue is that they dont properly test characters and then nerf them because of some "loop" in the sith raid
Easy, just hard-nerf Grievous ...
There is no such thing for CG.
Feels line this raid is a purposefully made nerf mill.
Scale back out characters so the power creep can be tamed a little.
Hell even the raids own rewards had a turn in the mill.
Ding
We love the game
Ding
It is fun and enjoyable
again..
We love the game
Ding
It is fun and enjoyable
And then reality set in. Lol
Scores
You say they stink at testing but have not realized yet these “bugs” show up any time anyone but the whales can top 10 the raid due to progression toons becoming ftp etc..... stuff is planned
The way raid rewardsset up only for whales u think they wont protect those whales uthink whale gonn keep spendingif he is getting 11 in HSTR hahahhahahahahahah
All by design bras
Of course im mildly kidding.... but the timing is always seems to lineup wink
Paper zombie was not clever or creative, and the exploits weren't even particularly interesting. Run a standard Nightsister team. Let zombie die a lot. Generate TM and stack Asajj and Daka's zetas. Go as long as you can. Not a lot to it, but it punished people who invested in the character in some key contexts.
The zombie rework was a buff for the faction in most respects, brought the sisters back into strong arena viability, and still works with pretty much the same lineups they had before the rework. Just now, a buff zombie is not punished like it used to be.
shiiiiiii
LinkedIn lists Capital Games as 51-200 employees. Let's assume 200 employees. Now, let's assume they are adding a new feature, and every one of those 200 employees spent nine to five non-stop testing a new feature for an entire five day work week. Not developing. Not doing other stuff. Just testing the finalized version. That's 8000 man-hours.
And that's not just trying to break the raid or topple the arena meta. That's full testing, including base functionality (does this basic that applies tenacity up to a random ally with a 50% chance to attack again once per round actually do what it says), and using the team against a selection of relevant non-meta teams like hunters or first order, which diverts some portion of those 8000 hours from things like toppling the meta or breaking the raid.
If they hired out one thousand testers to test a single game element forty hours a week for two weeks, that's 80,000 man-hours of testing, and not remotely a reasonable standard to expect from a studio that size.
r/SWGalaxyOfHeroes has 55,000 subscribers, and is a small portion of the active user base. Let's say just 20% of them actively engage the new content, whether directly or indirectly. That outstrips the man-hours of the thousand testers in an afternoon. It's not that the playerbase is consistently smarter than the devs. It's that the playerbase can cloud source breaking things.
A blanket "test more" is not the answer, especially for a small studio and can never match the man-hours the player base will pour into breaking things. The perfect is the enemy of the good, and the done. Things getting released in an imperfect state then fixed means we get more quality content in a timely manner, with some speed bumps along the way, and that's a worthwhile tradeoff.
Testing on this game has been alright by any reasonable standard. This Droideka splat is one of the first truly questionable ones in a while.
This is going to keep happening and it’s only going to get worse, creating more frustration. There is nothing you are going to release now and in the future that the community will not figure out how to use in your raids to dominate it, unless you take the suggestion above to heart. Which based on your recent actions, I guarantee you won’t.
@CG_SBCrumb @CG_Carrie
Wow. How many combinations of toons and different game play strategies do you suppose itnwould take to make sure each toon had no way of exploiting a glitch. Lol
Relax francis
Automated test scripts exist. Every toon combination can be tested at a general auto ai control, revealing anything that comes up normally, except for any specific combination of ability uses.
Or, perhaps, you know, common sense to be used. Something that is damage immune for 2 rounds may break things..
So you mean they couldn’t even test droideka in ANY phase 3 team and see this happening?
I mean seriously, stick him by himself and give him stand alone. Put him in a grevious team, cls team, I could care less what team. It’s not like they needed infinite combinations here. We are talking about 5 toons and 1 specifically no matter what team you place him in, he would have had this effect. The fact that a blatantly easy glitch like this got thru proves they don’t test anything period.
That is best news out of all this!
Ive never seen an infinite probability script written let alone implemented.... Ever...
It's not the damage immunity that breaks things, it's the "true damage" when his speed is set to 0 but he assists before the stand-alone cuts off assists so then his damage just goes insane and traya gets wrecked. They just need to write the stand-alone script to cut off assists from B1 and Droideka earlier in the order of operations. Either that or make the speed set to 0 happen after the assist happens if they want to still allow the singular assist when an ally uses the Stand-alone ability.
Actually, the assist shouldn't happen at all, and that's the bug here.
But, we also have an undergeared Droideka that allows RJT teams to wreck Revan in arena, so there's that.
Again, this is the bug. Stand Alone is supposed to stop the assists. That's why Chewie doesn't assist Han/Greedo during Stand Alone, or during the action of entering Stand Alone.