They never said his lead is OP. The problem with his lead is that it significantly limits what they can incorporate into new droids' kits, because under his lead there's easily the potential to create 'game-breaking' infinite loops with, for example, a Lando-type AoE.
This. What everyone complaining about how changing his lead will ruin droids doesn’t understand is that HK’s lead is precisely what has been holding droids back for so long. He gives so much turn meter that there’s too fine a line between mediocre and invincible for droids to get any truly powerful toons without them specifically being designed to not work with HK (like B1). This will open up opportunities to make droid teams much more useful in many aspects of the game.
All droids were either built around with HK in mind (86, 88 getting crit synergy) or like B1 and droideka, which were built around not getting crits because of HK. Changing HK’s leader ruins a lot of the droid faction built around crits while not fixing any of the droids that were built to not get crits. I will bet my life savings that B1 will never get reworked to not be able to crit even though the reason why they did that is gone.
Changing the lead doesn't mean it won't care about crits in other ways. And honestly, I will be glad if crits aren't the only thing it cares about, they are too easy to shut down now.
Yup, this is ****. Ive made a droid Team with intention of playing them under HK. Zeta on IG, L3, T3 and IPD.now all of those zetas will be useless - especially L3 and T3 zetas. And i'll get refund for omegas of HK. ****!
If they kept droid synergy with his lead could see removing the tm gain but add 30 speed 15 or 20% cd and apply target lock on a crit then give him a 2nd unique that does something with target lock like gain 15% tm on crits against target locked enemies or something like that
There are lot's of sensible reactions in this thread. Mine was a knee **** reaction to the news. I accept that. After the Sep Droid rework I just fear what CG will consider to be good for the faction. Hopefully his leadership is not just removed, but changed for the better,
HK lead is ridiculous and is one step away from an infinite loop unless you have GK on your team. Its kinda like Finn lead, where future toons of a specific faction have to be re-developed due to how easily it can break things. I think its a good move to change or get rid of the lead and rework it to be more closely aligned with his character
Yup, this is ****. Ive made a droid Team with intention of playing them under HK. Zeta on IG, L3, T3 and IPD.now all of those zetas will be useless - especially L3 and T3 zetas. And i'll get refund for omegas of HK. ****!
Why would you expect an omega refund?
Because he is literate? They already said they're refunding the mats involved with his leadership
HK lead is ridiculous and is one step away from an infinite loop unless you have GK on your team.
...or you use Rex lead...or Zarris...or Shoretrooper with his crit immunity buff...or you use one of several leads with crit avoidance...or you start using the crit avoidance mods...or you use teams like CLS/Rebels that counter attack to kill any toon that AoEs too many times...or you AoE daze the droids like you can with Maul, Nest, Wampa, or Holdo. But besides that you're helpless. It's a shame there isn't anything to counter HK lead, and it's a shame that nothing could be added to counter such a team.
One could argue revans lead is op with jedi him leading anything else is useless. Hk leadership applies to anything. And if cg creates highly advanced kits it could skew potency of whoever he leads a lot over revan. So i may be in the minority but i tend to believe cg in this case.
What you on about? Clearly applies only to droids.
Yup, this is ****. Ive made a droid Team with intention of playing them under HK. Zeta on IG, L3, T3 and IPD.now all of those zetas will be useless - especially L3 and T3 zetas. And i'll get refund for omegas of HK. ****!
Why would you expect an omega refund?
Because he is literate? They already said they're refunding the mats involved with his leadership
Forgive my ignorance then but at what level does his leader ability currently end? If at 8, then 3 omegas are due. If at 7, then no omegas were used.
"Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen...mostly"
While I don’t run droids, there is nothing that will make me ditch a game faster than undoing the work I’ve put in via nerf reworks. It’s not just mats. Our time has value. To render months of work null and void with a keystroke is disrespectful and demoralizing.
I know others will tell me how wrong I am, but people need to realize real people invest real time in the way they want to play the game as it is presented. To undo all of someone’s effort is taking a poop on QOL.
This game is going in a very bad direction, and the devs need leadership that can see beyond coding.
I am the jedi dog battle droid C-3PO could not kill.
HK lead is ridiculous and is one step away from an infinite loop unless you have GK on your team.
...or you use Rex lead...or Zarris...or Shoretrooper with his crit immunity buff...or you use one of several leads with crit avoidance...or you start using the crit avoidance mods...or you use teams like CLS/Rebels that counter attack to kill any toon that AoEs too many times...or you AoE daze the droids like you can with Maul, Nest, Wampa, or Holdo. But besides that you're helpless. It's a shame there isn't anything to counter HK lead, and it's a shame that nothing could be added to counter such a team.
You know what, I'm completely wrong.
You are correct w.r.t. his lead. There's way too many counters to it and i feel so stupid not realizing all of that
Yup, this is ****. Ive made a droid Team with intention of playing them under HK. Zeta on IG, L3, T3 and IPD.now all of those zetas will be useless - especially L3 and T3 zetas. And i'll get refund for omegas of HK. ****!
Why would you expect an omega refund?
Because he is literate? They already said they're refunding the mats involved with his leadership
Forgive my ignorance then but at what level does his leader ability currently end? If at 8, then 3 omegas are due. If at 7, then no omegas were used.
I like how they said at first that they have no intention to refund the Finn zeta, but now they offer 3 omegas back for HK.
Seems like they are trolling us.
I can understand why people who invested in characters based on their current loadouts would be frustrated, but the simple fact is that HK never should have had a leader ability in the first place. The only reason he did is because without it he served no purpose in the game, given that they brought him in years before adding any of the characters he actually *should* synergize with.
While I don’t run droids, there is nothing that will make me ditch a game faster than undoing the work I’ve put in via nerf reworks. It’s not just mats. Our time has value. To render months of work null and void with a keystroke is disrespectful and demoralizing.
I know others will tell me how wrong I am, but people need to realize real people invest real time in the way they want to play the game as it is presented. To undo all of someone’s effort is taking a poop on QOL.
This game is going in a very bad direction, and the devs need leadership that can see beyond coding.
What do you expect them to do? Never change any character? Somehow make every character balanced on release with characters that are coming out years later that they haven't even thought of yet?
There is simply no way to keep everything balanced without occasionally changing old characters.
As someone who focuses on using droids in this game, despite their non-meta and sub-optimal status, this HK update is the worst possible news for droid users.
CG you feel HK breaks the game? I've run HK lead for nearly 2 years now and never got higher than 50. I've got decent mod sets, g12+ and all the droids. Even with the Sep rework I only know a handful of other droid enthusiasts that stay top 10 with droids, most in part staying that high due to shard chats.
Can you seriously say that HK lead, one of the only actual droid specific leads apart from GG and CN, needs removing from the game? Do you really not want people to use anything other than the current meta? Revan's lead and ability set gives him access to nearly every power in the game, and yet HK is what you decide needs a complete rework?
I don't get or aim for top 50 in squad arena. I stay 50 to 100 and am happy there. CG you've refused to tweak the Sep rework (specifically B1) against Revan which we have accepted and now you look like you are nerfing the only other viable droid lead. Can you see why some people in the swgoh community have lost all faith in you? What happened to "This will not make or break the Droid meta" Carrie? His lead is Droid specific, how is this possibly going to affect the incoming Revan meta?
It's been no easy task to balance a HK Team with the right amount of damage and other abilities to control/finish the fight since newer Teams are more durable.
I mean: a) droids with HK wasnt Meta, even after GG Rework
b) L3 missed a Leader ability
c) C3PO offers nothing for droids
d) 4-LOM wasnt in BH pass so we expect he won't come
e) Grievous Rework doesn't break with HK lead, is specifically designed to synergise with othe sep droids, and still can't make the meta.
f) HK crit lead was already countered in many ways GK, Zarris, Rex, even Biggs at old days and even CLS is a nightmare now
g) that leaves JTR as best droid lead which is mostly for LS Droids and is an unintentional design oddity anyway
i) leaving us with Poggle and Nebit... Some of the most outdated characters in the game...
HK-lead is the reason that B1 can't score critical hits. It's just one example of how HK's leadership was limiting their design space. Otherwise B1 would just spam his "0-cooldown" AoE attack non-stop. Infinite loops are bad.
It's spelled out pretty clearly in Crumb's post.
And as for Finn's zeta refund - they still haven't settled on what the rework will be, and they haven't decided on his refund status. So...no need to get agitated about it.
They never said his lead is OP. The problem with his lead is that it significantly limits what they can incorporate into new droids' kits, because under his lead there's easily the potential to create 'game-breaking' infinite loops with, for example, a Lando-type AoE.
This. What everyone complaining about how changing his lead will ruin droids doesn’t understand is that HK’s lead is precisely what has been holding droids back for so long. He gives so much turn meter that there’s too fine a line between mediocre and invincible for droids to get any truly powerful toons without them specifically being designed to not work with HK (like B1). This will open up opportunities to make droid teams much more useful in many aspects of the game.
Not to mention that his lead is getting reworked, not scrapped. I, for one, am looking forward to seeing what they come up with and what it will mean for Droids as a faction.
They already said his rework will not make droids meta-competitive.
Basically if you read between the lines this means his rework wont do squat for droids as a faction.
The character itself and its synergy with another dumb revan will be improved but they have a problem with LITERALLY the only halfway useable droid leader in the game right now.
Allow me to repeat that for those people too stupid to do anything but fanboi over revan 2.0
HK47 IS LITERALLY THE
->ONLY <-
HALFWAY USEABLE DROID LEADER IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW.
PERIOD.
Every single other droid leader is trash and hk47 still cant beat revan. At all.
But its overpowered? And revan isnt?
CG has completely lost touch with its player base. Hk gets nerfed like finn but revan and jolee? Working as intended... hold my beer while i introduce revan 2.0.. because thats what people want right? MORE REVAN?!?
When T3 came out we were promised they'd be meta. Not yet, but eventually. So I put them to g12 and put zetas on them all. And I've waited. Steps came and despite false claims they are crap. We've been told they're good for GA but my droids already dominated anything not Revan, traya or CLS. Now apparently they won't be able to do that. So when exactly are we getting this droid meta.
Yup, this is ****. Ive made a droid Team with intention of playing them under HK. Zeta on IG, L3, T3 and IPD.now all of those zetas will be useless - especially L3 and T3 zetas. And i'll get refund for omegas of HK. ****!
Why would you expect an omega refund?
Because he is literate? They already said they're refunding the mats involved with his leadership
Then why would he builds droid team based on hk when they've said he won't make droids meta?
They never said his lead is OP. The problem with his lead is that it significantly limits what they can incorporate into new droids' kits, because under his lead there's easily the potential to create 'game-breaking' infinite loops with, for example, a Lando-type AoE.
This. What everyone complaining about how changing his lead will ruin droids doesn’t understand is that HK’s lead is precisely what has been holding droids back for so long. He gives so much turn meter that there’s too fine a line between mediocre and invincible for droids to get any truly powerful toons without them specifically being designed to not work with HK (like B1). This will open up opportunities to make droid teams much more useful in many aspects of the game.
Not to mention that his lead is getting reworked, not scrapped. I, for one, am looking forward to seeing what they come up with and what it will mean for Droids as a faction.
They already said his rework will not make droids meta-competitive.
Basically if you read between the lines this means his rework wont do squat for droids as a faction.
The character itself and its synergy with another dumb revan will be improved but they have a problem with LITERALLY the only halfway useable droid leader in the game right now.
Allow me to repeat that for those people too stupid to do anything but fanboi over revan 2.0
HK47 IS LITERALLY THE
->ONLY <-
HALFWAY USEABLE DROID LEADER IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW.
PERIOD.
Every single other droid leader is trash and hk47 still cant beat revan. At all.
But its overpowered? And revan isnt?
CG has completely lost touch with its player base. Hk gets nerfed like finn but revan and jolee? Working as intended... hold my beer while i introduce revan 2.0.. because thats what people want right? MORE REVAN?!?
A few things.
1. Not meta doesn't mean not useful. Think JTR - she's not meta anymore and still very valuable addition to any roster. And before you point out that she dominated meta at one point, so did HK.
2. Have you stopped to think that maybe the droids aren't that good because they had to be designed with HK lead in mind? It simply has too much potential to go off the rails in both PvP and PvE. Cooldown reductions? Double tap on basic? Spammable AoE? Those things are off limits for droids just because of HK lead. Changing the lead opens up design space.
3. HK not beating Revan is precisely because of the lead. Crits are too easy to counter now, just add GK. And while this is a good safety valve for arena, the stuff I mentioned in 2. still applies for GA and TW, an undergeared HK team with any of those mechanics would simply walk over any defese team without anti-crit mechanic because of infinite turns. So a rework can make the lead less prone to unhealthy gameplay while also making it harder to completely shut down.
Imagine if they released a droid with a similar kit to let's day GMY that gains turn meter on his basic. Then let's say he crits. Boom, 100% turn meter. Loop initiated. Other situation, let's say that a character like original kylo exists that could aoe back to back if certain conditions are met, and then all of a sudden infinite loop initiated. I love HK's lead, but as the dev post suggests, they have had to design droids around hk's kit so that they didn't become broken. What they need to do is release new droid leaderships that are on the level of revan's where it is powerful, but at the same time has a way to be beaten, like Revan's. Teams that are only determined by "who's Poe is faster" and the like are dumb.
- 50% TM gain on crits is insane
- makes the devs be very careful when granting droids kits with AoE / multi-hit attacks
- easily could lead into "infinite" stuff
- they HAVE to change it in some way to get back some freedom and not include "this attack cannot critically hit" on all the new kits
They never said HK's lead is currently OP. Reading is fundamental. They said very clearly that his lead creates such a risk of infinite TM loops with new characters that they'll have to limit future droid kits so those infinite loops don't get created. We already have B1 who can't crit and Droideka who has a lot of damage based around non-crits because they were afraid of them creating TM loops under HK's lead. It has nothing to do with a team being OP or hard to beat. Everyone playing this game should be aware of all the issues caused by the Finn/3PO TM loop....they are trying to avoid those problems coming up again in the future. Nobody was talking about HK's lead and their supposedly great HK-led droid teams until the change was announced and now suddenly everybody's entire roster is built around their HK droid team, lmfao.
When T3 came out we were promised they'd be meta. Not yet, but eventually. So I put them to g12 and put zetas on them all. And I've waited. Steps came and despite false claims they are crap. We've been told they're good for GA but my droids already dominated anything not Revan, traya or CLS. Now apparently they won't be able to do that. So when exactly are we getting this droid meta.
Actually...they didn't. They specifically said "T3-M4 synergizes very well with other droids, but although we expect them to rise in utility, we don't expect them to be meta dominant...at least for now." That does not equal "droids will become meta dominant" or "we promise that droids will become meta dominant".
My dudes I was lazy when originally posting this thread. I wrote a shorter version of a title I wrote in a reddit post. It's my bad. I have amended it and written a note above.
Its not about being overpowered now but cause of how hk lead is it limits droids or future droid reworks to avoid hk from being a leader while revans lead is good but its not limiting character kits or being able to go infinite loop from it if it wasn't for hk im sure b1 would have been able to crit so hk isnt broken cause nothing works well with it but if that changed it would become broken so the future
Eh Droids are really OP. There is one thing limiting them under HK and that is Crit hit immunity. DN directly countered it and so many toons have it now its pretty much impossible to run droids.
Only "buff" droids could get would be to make then ignore crit immunity, but if you do that they are literally unstoppable...a better version of ZFinn.
Replies
Changing the lead doesn't mean it won't care about crits in other ways. And honestly, I will be glad if crits aren't the only thing it cares about, they are too easy to shut down now.
Why would you expect an omega refund?
Because he is literate? They already said they're refunding the mats involved with his leadership
...or you use Rex lead...or Zarris...or Shoretrooper with his crit immunity buff...or you use one of several leads with crit avoidance...or you start using the crit avoidance mods...or you use teams like CLS/Rebels that counter attack to kill any toon that AoEs too many times...or you AoE daze the droids like you can with Maul, Nest, Wampa, or Holdo. But besides that you're helpless. It's a shame there isn't anything to counter HK lead, and it's a shame that nothing could be added to counter such a team.
What you on about? Clearly applies only to droids.
Forgive my ignorance then but at what level does his leader ability currently end? If at 8, then 3 omegas are due. If at 7, then no omegas were used.
I know others will tell me how wrong I am, but people need to realize real people invest real time in the way they want to play the game as it is presented. To undo all of someone’s effort is taking a poop on QOL.
This game is going in a very bad direction, and the devs need leadership that can see beyond coding.
You are correct w.r.t. his lead. There's way too many counters to it and i feel so stupid not realizing all of that
Seems like they are trolling us.
What do you expect them to do? Never change any character? Somehow make every character balanced on release with characters that are coming out years later that they haven't even thought of yet?
There is simply no way to keep everything balanced without occasionally changing old characters.
Keep in mind too they can't really rework Revan's leadership after people have dropped hundreds of quid into him. Imagine the uproar lol
It's spelled out pretty clearly in Crumb's post.
And as for Finn's zeta refund - they still haven't settled on what the rework will be, and they haven't decided on his refund status. So...no need to get agitated about it.
*pure speculation
They already said his rework will not make droids meta-competitive.
Basically if you read between the lines this means his rework wont do squat for droids as a faction.
The character itself and its synergy with another dumb revan will be improved but they have a problem with LITERALLY the only halfway useable droid leader in the game right now.
Allow me to repeat that for those people too stupid to do anything but fanboi over revan 2.0
HK47 IS LITERALLY THE
->ONLY <-
HALFWAY USEABLE DROID LEADER IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW.
PERIOD.
Every single other droid leader is trash and hk47 still cant beat revan. At all.
But its overpowered? And revan isnt?
CG has completely lost touch with its player base. Hk gets nerfed like finn but revan and jolee? Working as intended... hold my beer while i introduce revan 2.0.. because thats what people want right? MORE REVAN?!?
Yes.
...well...that and his droid by his side.
Bet you won't do that again
Then why would he builds droid team based on hk when they've said he won't make droids meta?
A few things.
1. Not meta doesn't mean not useful. Think JTR - she's not meta anymore and still very valuable addition to any roster. And before you point out that she dominated meta at one point, so did HK.
2. Have you stopped to think that maybe the droids aren't that good because they had to be designed with HK lead in mind? It simply has too much potential to go off the rails in both PvP and PvE. Cooldown reductions? Double tap on basic? Spammable AoE? Those things are off limits for droids just because of HK lead. Changing the lead opens up design space.
3. HK not beating Revan is precisely because of the lead. Crits are too easy to counter now, just add GK. And while this is a good safety valve for arena, the stuff I mentioned in 2. still applies for GA and TW, an undergeared HK team with any of those mechanics would simply walk over any defese team without anti-crit mechanic because of infinite turns. So a rework can make the lead less prone to unhealthy gameplay while also making it harder to completely shut down.
- makes the devs be very careful when granting droids kits with AoE / multi-hit attacks
- easily could lead into "infinite" stuff
- they HAVE to change it in some way to get back some freedom and not include "this attack cannot critically hit" on all the new kits
Actually...they didn't. They specifically said "T3-M4 synergizes very well with other droids, but although we expect them to rise in utility, we don't expect them to be meta dominant...at least for now." That does not equal "droids will become meta dominant" or "we promise that droids will become meta dominant".
Only "buff" droids could get would be to make then ignore crit immunity, but if you do that they are literally unstoppable...a better version of ZFinn.