The difference with HSTR was that lower guilds had access to lower Tiers of the Sith Raid and had something to practice on and could work towards the next Tier.
With Geonoses, they can't do anything with it at all. An entirely new section of the game is completely denied them regardless of their personal GP just because they are in a guild which the Devs have decided can't play. At all. Not "play lower difficulty" or even "play this difficulty and lose badly"; just can't play. End of.
I guess that's true, but I still think the anger is unwarranted. Not every game mode needs to be easily accessible.
My guild has been looking for a big guildwide challenge. HSTR was our previous goal and we all have Trayas now. TW is fun and all but monotonous. So we're thrilled that Geonosis TB will be a challenge, even if we fail miserably for a few months and barely get 1 star. It'll be something to work towards which makes the game fun.
That's YOUR guild..... There are a lot of people just starting. A lot of people who had played for a long time and started their own guilds trying to build them up. You are only speaking for your guild. I am guessing the number of lower tier guilds that are casual outnumber guilds like yours.
And as they build up they grow. They may not be 80m when GeoTB hits but in a few weeks to months they'll get there and in that time they will hear from others what teams to target for victory and be better prepared than the 120M guilds who started GeoTB and stalled.
Just take this into consideration because, it's inevitable.
Player has Malak. Needs currency to get to 7 stars. Has 4.4 million GP roster. In a guild with 69 million GP with 41 members. Now, 4.4 Mill Roster GP multiplied by 41 is a 164 mil gp guild. SO what's going on here, is that there's a few big GP members but the rest are around 1.5-2. Those high GP members arent going to want to sit around for months while other gear up to 80 and even then it won't be enough to do much.
They'll leave. People come and go from guilds like changing socks as it is. Not a lot of people stick things out.
So that 4.4m GP guy has already had a lot of significant incentives to leave the 69m GP guild and go elsewhere. The 69m GP guild probably isn't doing HSith, which in addition to Traya is the main source of g12+ gear and extremely important for roster development. The 69m GP guild is getting fewer zetas due to TW brackets. The 69m GP guild is getting far fewer stars in the existing TBs, which translates into a lot of GET that player could have already used to get his Malak to 7*, as well as crystals and other goodies. So he has been making the decision to stick with a guild far far below his weight class for a long time, and to suffer the consequences of it. Maybe the new incentive with the new TB will be enough to push him over the edge, but do you really think that it's the fact that his guild can't enter the Geo TB that will be the deciding factor rather than the fact that even if they could enter it they would be getting much lower rewards than a guild that matches his weight class?
What am I missing out on? a 7* malak? So what. With the mods that I can't spin to 20+ speed, I would still only be top 20. I could have zetas on phoenix??? Who cares. There is nothing that I want, that I can't get. There is nothing I don't do very well in. I have fun with my guild mates. What am I missing out on? The only edge I am likely to be pusehed over is playing a game that dis-incentivizes me from playing. And that is what is happening with me on this decision by CG. I can't finish higher than #1 in ships, I have 1500 prestige mats waiting for the new cap ship, over 20M credits, several k crystals, 7 g12 pieces waiting to be placed.
You may think I am missing something, but there is nothing I miss, except not being able to make an attempt. I didn't like the 17.5k limit on malak, even though I met it. There is a lot going on in this game, now, that I don't like. It is pushing me to quit, not incentivizing me to play. Not allowing me to fail is not giving me a goal. It is keeping me from seeing how I can improve. You may not see it this way, but I do. I am not the only one. Friends feel the same way.
Well I wasn't talking about you, but serious question: If you don't feel like you have missed out on anything important so far, then why are you so sure you will be missing out on something important now? You haven't been getting g12+ gear since you haven't been doing HSith, and apparently you're fine with that. So why are you worried about missing out on g12 finishers now? You don't care about 7* Malak or Traya, so why do you care about whatever character will be dropped into Geo TB? What is it that is suddenly making you prioritize progress over your guild when you never did before?
The difference with HSTR was that lower guilds had access to lower Tiers of the Sith Raid and had something to practice on and could work towards the next Tier.
With Geonoses, they can't do anything with it at all. An entirely new section of the game is completely denied them regardless of their personal GP just because they are in a guild which the Devs have decided can't play. At all. Not "play lower difficulty" or even "play this difficulty and lose badly"; just can't play. End of.
I guess that's true, but I still think the anger is unwarranted. Not every game mode needs to be easily accessible.
My guild has been looking for a big guildwide challenge. HSTR was our previous goal and we all have Trayas now. TW is fun and all but monotonous. So we're thrilled that Geonosis TB will be a challenge, even if we fail miserably for a few months and barely get 1 star. It'll be something to work towards which makes the game fun.
That's YOUR guild..... There are a lot of people just starting. A lot of people who had played for a long time and started their own guilds trying to build them up. You are only speaking for your guild. I am guessing the number of lower tier guilds that are casual outnumber guilds like yours.
And as they build up they grow. They may not be 80m when GeoTB hits but in a few weeks to months they'll get there and in that time they will hear from others what teams to target for victory and be better prepared than the 120M guilds who started GeoTB and stalled.
Just take this into consideration because, it's inevitable.
Player has Malak. Needs currency to get to 7 stars. Has 4.4 million GP roster. In a guild with 69 million GP with 41 members. Now, 4.4 Mill Roster GP multiplied by 41 is a 164 mil gp guild. SO what's going on here, is that there's a few big GP members but the rest are around 1.5-2. Those high GP members arent going to want to sit around for months while other gear up to 80 and even then it won't be enough to do much.
They'll leave. People come and go from guilds like changing socks as it is. Not a lot of people stick things out.
So that 4.4m GP guy has already had a lot of significant incentives to leave the 69m GP guild and go elsewhere. The 69m GP guild probably isn't doing HSith, which in addition to Traya is the main source of g12+ gear and extremely important for roster development. The 69m GP guild is getting fewer zetas due to TW brackets. The 69m GP guild is getting far fewer stars in the existing TBs, which translates into a lot of GET that player could have already used to get his Malak to 7*, as well as crystals and other goodies. So he has been making the decision to stick with a guild far far below his weight class for a long time, and to suffer the consequences of it. Maybe the new incentive with the new TB will be enough to push him over the edge, but do you really think that it's the fact that his guild can't enter the Geo TB that will be the deciding factor rather than the fact that even if they could enter it they would be getting much lower rewards than a guild that matches his weight class?
How long have you been playing?
Not in a **** style am I asking but, were you playing for the release of HAAT? That destroyed guilds. Sith Triumphant was similar at first.
I was a few months into the game when HAAT was released. I am well aware that it and Sith both destroyed guilds. In other words, this is nothing new. But there's a big difference in the state of the game now than then, which is that right before tank raid was released there was nothing else in the game that made it relevant what size your guild was, as long as they were finishing HPit. Guilds were willing to take anybody that could get 600 tickets and didn't give a hoot about your roster -- that's why I got into the guild I did early on, even though I was so new I didn't even have a 7* character to be able to join the pit raids for a week or two after. But that's not true now. Now there are tons of incentives in the game to be in a better guild, and to care about having a full contingent of people that can carry their weight. So if somebody hasn't left the tiny guild with all the other incentives to do so that already exist, there's a reasonable chance he won't leave because of this either.
I agree, we are at a different point in the game. Very fair argument.
I also agree, that NOW, there are a lot of incentives to be in a high level guild.
But here is where I feel you are leaving out an important piece. A lot of guilds have team requirements and GP requirements. Many people would like to join such guilds but can't make the requirements as it is. There are new players coming into this Galaxy everyday. Some are FTP some are whales. Some move faster than others in their guild and outgrow it. Some stay for loyalty. Some are casual. It's a mix bag. It will be even harder after the launch as guilds will adjust requirements to complete geo.
I think you're right in some ways for some people about not leaving if they haven't left yet. But I think for many, it might be the camel that breaks the the straws back Perhaps, I'm overacting. I am not in a guild that is below the requirements. But if we dont fare well and people leave, that could hurt us in all sorts of ways. I don't have much skin in the game as far as not meeting the GP level, but for others I can see how this would be a cause for worry. And like I said, should a guild not fare well, once, or twice, I wonder how long it will stick it out.
U're right, as soon as the new TB launches the forums will fill with grief posts. Then will be the time those currently annoyed by the entry barrier at that GP level to grab their popcorn. Because they have no beef in it. Most of them barely have a few g12s. And even if they were able to enter, it wouldn't net them a gain.
For folks in 3M-5M gp range though...it will be -haves- and -have nots- kind of seperation (like GK and Traya was). Mine is at 183M gp and I'm worried we may not be able to control the migration (which will surely happen, may be a few, may be a lot).
I agree with you. I looked over our roster, and honestly, there aren't a lot of people with maxed out Separtists. And some of our memebers with 50+ G12's have them maxed. How long are they going to wait for the rest of the guild?
We have been downing Trea for about a month now. 60+ shards in... If our big guys leave, we're not going to have a fun time.
It's a wait and see. I hope they reconsider the GP limit. Or perhaps lower it?
You're right about hstr viability, that may present a problem.
Though it's not true that lifting off the GP entry limit for this TB will do anything for your situation. I bet that number is calculated at the point where it's debatable if a guild can attain a single star. You know this is a definitive limitation in TBs.
i.e. we calculate when my guild is able to achieve our next star. The absolute limit of that is full participation and full mission runs+our avaliable GP. Ofc that's not the point we end up getting to the next star. It comes much later due to failed missions(no optimal teams avaliable, didn't bother, autod etc) and not full attendance.
Your peeps won't be leaving because the event is locked for you, they will be leaving because you are not able to get stars and they found one that does.
Same for us, say mine gets 20 stars when it's released, they will leave for those that gets 25-30 stars.
People play a game to try new things and have fun. You basically removed both of those reasons to play when you integrate GP requirements. You remove their ability to try it, which is not fun.
This is basically another way to keep the pay to win players at the top and to hell with the F2P or occasional payees. They don't care if you can't get in an event or a war as long as you break the bank to do so. It's easy to be a dev, sit there and answer only questions about their intentions from only the top 1%, boast about their 4m+ GP's after they just grant it all to themselves! I've been playing almost 1.5 years, same guild, still haven't gotten a single Traya shard, events are unattainable to lower players despite a 6 month+ grind. Let's face is, they will add new **** for the tops and we will sit here and be left out as usual
I’ve also been playing for 1.5 years in the same guild that started at the same time. We were very intentional about farming for the sith raid, and even though the first time we beat the heroic version was 10 months after it was released, we did it and practically the whole guild has Traya unlocked now. My guild also is over the GP limit for Geonosis territory battles, and we only have 2 guild members over 4 million GP.
As for events, free players and low spenders are not going to be able to get every legendary or journey character the first or even second time they come out. But you can get some. I just got C-3PO at 7*, but I’m nowhere near ready for Darth Revan next week. It’s a matter of priorities and focus.
The developers do focus a lot of effort on paying players and long-time players who already have a lot of the characters and are looking for something new. That is how they make money. But you can choose your own focus. The devs want the new TB to be something we strive for that starts off incredibly difficult, but gets easier as they release new characters and power creep continues. You can choose to work toward that goal or work toward something else instead. It’s up to you.
So a guild needs 80 million GP to participate in the Geonosis Territory Battle.
This is claimed to be to give the smaller guilds something to aim for. But it won't work like that.
You honestly think that if a guild is on 70 million, all the members will happily sit there and think to themselves "oh, we have something to strive for"? And not "oh, I need to find another guild"?
They then leave making it even harder for the remaining players to qualify. Suddenly the guild drops to 65 million and more players start wondering about whether they'd be better in another guild.
All that happens is that smaller guilds are punished.
But there's no need for that.
It's claimed that the participation requirement is to give smaller guilds something to aim for but excluding players doesn't achieve that. Before my current guild could defeat the Heroic Tank, we had something to aim for but we could still TRY. We could start the Heroic Tank every so often, see how well we would, and then go back to the normal Tank for a few more weeks. And now we have reached the point where we kill the Tank in less than 2 hours.
But all those failed attempts weren't wasted. They didn't put us off. Nobody thought "I can't access this game content because I've thrown my lot in with this guild so I better now leave". We tried, we failed, we picked ourselves up, we tried again.
Why not allow us to try the Geonosis Territory War and fail? What's wrong with that?
That would be far more encouraging as it would at least show guilds what they are missing, where they are failing and show people what is needed. But by not allowing that, it remains a closed door. It's like saying to people that you can't even watch the Olympics if you didn't qualify.
Or, maybe it's because 80M gp guilds will get 1* 2* max. And then complain about the new TB being, "ToO dIfFiCuLt"
So a guild needs 80 million GP to participate in the Geonosis Territory Battle.
This is claimed to be to give the smaller guilds something to aim for. But it won't work like that.
You honestly think that if a guild is on 70 million, all the members will happily sit there and think to themselves "oh, we have something to strive for"? And not "oh, I need to find another guild"?
They then leave making it even harder for the remaining players to qualify. Suddenly the guild drops to 65 million and more players start wondering about whether they'd be better in another guild.
All that happens is that smaller guilds are punished.
But there's no need for that.
It's claimed that the participation requirement is to give smaller guilds something to aim for but excluding players doesn't achieve that. Before my current guild could defeat the Heroic Tank, we had something to aim for but we could still TRY. We could start the Heroic Tank every so often, see how well we would, and then go back to the normal Tank for a few more weeks. And now we have reached the point where we kill the Tank in less than 2 hours.
But all those failed attempts weren't wasted. They didn't put us off. Nobody thought "I can't access this game content because I've thrown my lot in with this guild so I better now leave". We tried, we failed, we picked ourselves up, we tried again.
Why not allow us to try the Geonosis Territory War and fail? What's wrong with that?
That would be far more encouraging as it would at least show guilds what they are missing, where they are failing and show people what is needed. But by not allowing that, it remains a closed door. It's like saying to people that you can't even watch the Olympics if you didn't qualify.
Or, maybe it's because 80M gp guilds will get 1* 2* max. And then complain about the new TB being, "ToO dIfFiCuLt"
New Geos TB is end-game content. That's means something, right? When devs released quests system to help new players grow faster, old players didn't complain that entry level features is useless for them. Now, while everybody agree that this game became too boring for veterans and most guilds that beated HSTR have nothing to do exept chasing TB stars and focusing on TW, when new end-game content announced, its suddenly discouraged weak guilds and entry level players.
If your guild is weak, its your guild leader fault. That's all. If your guild weak and unorganized, ask your leader and officers, why this happens. If they cannot drive guild forward end-game content successfully, find another guild. Or create your own and show your leader skill.
There is many guilds with GP around 150m that still cannot farm HSTR, while others start farm it around 100-120m GP.
If your guild cannot beat HSTR, why you want to be able to participate in game mode, that intended to be more hard and advanced than HSTR? Just curious.
There is a simple answer to this. Accelerate the early and mid game. The content added to this game has made it so tha a player with 1m gp has over a 2 year wait to get to 4m. Of course people will move. Adjust drop rates to allow older toons and gear to be collected faster, so people can actually be encouraged that they might someday be able to reach these end game goals.
New Geos TB is end-game content. That's means something, right? When devs released quests system to help new players grow faster, old players didn't complain that entry level features is useless for them. Now, while everybody agree that this game became too boring for veterans and most guilds that beated HSTR have nothing to do exept chasing TB stars and focusing on TW, when new end-game content announced, its suddenly discouraged weak guilds and entry level players.
If your guild is weak, its your guild leader fault. That's all. If your guild weak and unorganized, ask your leader and officers, why this happens. If they cannot drive guild forward end-game content successfully, find another guild. Or create your own and show your leader skill.
There is many guilds with GP around 150m that still cannot farm HSTR, while others start farm it around 100-120m GP.
If your guild cannot beat HSTR, why you want to be able to participate in game mode, that intended to be more hard and advanced than HSTR? Just curious.
The problem with a thread when it starts getting to 4 or more pages is that often people new to the thread don't bother reading everything. I'm afraid this is evident here as every point you've raised has already been addressed.
The main point to bring to your attention is that nobody is complaining about "end game content". Nobody is complaining about it being very hard. What we're complaining about is that we're not allowed to try it.
Why can't it be open to everyone with a warning that it's intended to be hard? That way, guilds with lower GP can still try it and they will get 0 rewards. BUT THEY CAN STILL TRY IT. They can still play. They are not locked out of a new part of the game.
THAT is the complaint. Not the existence of new "end game content". Bring on MORE "end game content" but LET US PLAY!
I’ll be honest I’d imagine a 160m GP guild will still struggle but you’re right it’s a game, you should be able to play new content, not everyone plays the game for rewards they’re and added bonus and when something new comes out you want to try it. I hate the Hoth battles I wouldn’t care if they scrapped them all together.
I'd have to agree with the original poster, I don't think this is a good decision.
Firstly it seem to fly in the face of the Q&A when they were commenting on a padawan system for guilds. This is going to seriously effect those guilds that already do this, no longer can you afford to nurture and grow new players in a guild.
Secondly I thought the whole point of TB was a sliding scale of rewards? Surely all the Genosian TB needs is a steeper curve for stars and rewards. You just make the rewards equivalent for most guilds across the 2, so 20 stars in Hoth gives the same rewards as 5 stars in Geonosis. And so 48 stars in Hoth is say 30 stars in Geonosis, this gives plenty of room for guilds that have totally conquered Hoth. Heck you could go even simpler and just give the Genosian TB 100 stars in total and match like for like from Hoth. Then simply add Geonosis to the current cycle of TBs.
It's already hurting guilds. My tertiary account's guild essentially melted away in the span of a day. Going from 51M to 32M as people leave to find a guild that's big enough to be of help to them.
“This you have to understand. There's only one way to hurt a man who's lost everything. Give him back something broken..” -Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever
I'd have to agree with the original poster, I don't think this is a good decision.
Firstly it seem to fly in the face of the Q&A when they were commenting on a padawan system for guilds. This is going to seriously effect those guilds that already do this, no longer can you afford to nurture and grow new players in a guild.
Secondly I thought the whole point of TB was a sliding scale of rewards? Surely all the Genosian TB needs is a steeper curve for stars and rewards. You just make the rewards equivalent for most guilds across the 2, so 20 stars in Hoth gives the same rewards as 5 stars in Geonosis. And so 48 stars in Hoth is say 30 stars in Geonosis, this gives plenty of room for guilds that have totally conquered Hoth. Heck you could go even simpler and just give the Genosian TB 100 stars in total and match like for like from Hoth. Then simply add Geonosis to the current cycle of TBs.
They dont want to make content that will be easily beat by everyone in a short time. They are making this the next tier in difficulty, I'm imagining tier 1 will be more of a tier 5 currently and we will go up from there.
They cant just make it easier so everyone can participate, and then beat it "in no time". New content like this needs to have some lasting effect to then allow them to work on other projects.
They cant just make it easier so everyone can participate, and then beat it "in no time". New content like this needs to have some lasting effect to then allow them to work on other projects.
But most people aren't asking for that. At least, I'm not and I wasn't in my original post.
By all means keep it hard. By all means bring in more hard PvE "end game content". But allow us to play it. Don't decide "it's too tough for you therefore we're not going to let you even try"; let US make that decision for ourselves.
They cant just make it easier so everyone can participate, and then beat it "in no time". New content like this needs to have some lasting effect to then allow them to work on other projects.
But most people aren't asking for that. At least, I'm not and I wasn't in my original post.
By all means keep it hard. By all means bring in more hard PvE "end game content". But allow us to play it. Don't decide "it's too tough for you therefore we're not going to let you even try"; let US make that decision for ourselves.
You are giving star equivalents that make it almost on par with the current TB. How is that not making it easier if the star counts have relatively low equivalents?
They cant just make it easier so everyone can participate, and then beat it "in no time". New content like this needs to have some lasting effect to then allow them to work on other projects.
But most people aren't asking for that. At least, I'm not and I wasn't in my original post.
By all means keep it hard. By all means bring in more hard PvE "end game content". But allow us to play it. Don't decide "it's too tough for you therefore we're not going to let you even try"; let US make that decision for ourselves.
You are giving star equivalents that make it almost on par with the current TB. How is that not making it easier if the star counts have relatively low equivalents?
*I'M* not, no. You are confusing me with someone else.
They cant just make it easier so everyone can participate, and then beat it "in no time". New content like this needs to have some lasting effect to then allow them to work on other projects.
But most people aren't asking for that. At least, I'm not and I wasn't in my original post.
By all means keep it hard. By all means bring in more hard PvE "end game content". But allow us to play it. Don't decide "it's too tough for you therefore we're not going to let you even try"; let US make that decision for ourselves.
You are giving star equivalents that make it almost on par with the current TB. How is that not making it easier if the star counts have relatively low equivalents?
*I'M* not, no. You are confusing me with someone else.
Sorry, you responded to my response to them as though I was talking to you.
They cant just make it easier so everyone can participate, and then beat it "in no time". New content like this needs to have some lasting effect to then allow them to work on other projects.
But most people aren't asking for that. At least, I'm not and I wasn't in my original post.
By all means keep it hard. By all means bring in more hard PvE "end game content". But allow us to play it. Don't decide "it's too tough for you therefore we're not going to let you even try"; let US make that decision for ourselves.
This doesn't work well for many reasons, 1- the amount of complaining that will follow and requests for the change in difficulty.
They are avoiding most of that in 1 simple move.
They also want to add an extra layer for developed players to get the new materials and give a goal to newer players to build up to.
In the background they could also be doing this (pure speculation) to draw out the big players who swim in the small pond for better rewards.
As they stated, this is not like a raid where you can quit and move on. The guild would be locked in for 4 days on an event where they cant make it work. You and yours may be "strong enough" to endure, but in the end that could really hurt the player base to allow everyone to out themselves in that situation, and no the "but you were warned" suggestions floating around dont really help that in any way.
They cant just make it easier so everyone can participate, and then beat it "in no time". New content like this needs to have some lasting effect to then allow them to work on other projects.
But most people aren't asking for that. At least, I'm not and I wasn't in my original post.
By all means keep it hard. By all means bring in more hard PvE "end game content". But allow us to play it. Don't decide "it's too tough for you therefore we're not going to let you even try"; let US make that decision for ourselves.
This doesn't work well for many reasons, 1- the amount of complaining that will follow and requests for the change in difficulty.
They are avoiding most of that in 1 simple move.
They also want to add an extra layer for developed players to get the new materials and give a goal to newer players to build up to.
In the background they could also be doing this (pure speculation) to draw out the big players who swim in the small pond for better rewards.
As they stated, this is not like a raid where you can quit and move on. The guild would be locked in for 4 days on an event where they cant make it work. You and yours may be "strong enough" to endure, but in the end that could really hurt the player base to allow everyone to out themselves in that situation, and no the "but you were warned" suggestions floating around dont really help that in any way.
Warning don't work? Not even if they get implemented in game where you have to override them to take the action?
They cant just make it easier so everyone can participate, and then beat it "in no time". New content like this needs to have some lasting effect to then allow them to work on other projects.
But most people aren't asking for that. At least, I'm not and I wasn't in my original post.
By all means keep it hard. By all means bring in more hard PvE "end game content". But allow us to play it. Don't decide "it's too tough for you therefore we're not going to let you even try"; let US make that decision for ourselves.
This doesn't work well for many reasons, 1- the amount of complaining that will follow and requests for the change in difficulty.
They are avoiding most of that in 1 simple move.
They also want to add an extra layer for developed players to get the new materials and give a goal to newer players to build up to.
In the background they could also be doing this (pure speculation) to draw out the big players who swim in the small pond for better rewards.
As they stated, this is not like a raid where you can quit and move on. The guild would be locked in for 4 days on an event where they cant make it work. You and yours may be "strong enough" to endure, but in the end that could really hurt the player base to allow everyone to out themselves in that situation, and no the "but you were warned" suggestions floating around dont really help that in any way.
If warnings in game don't work, why are there warnings on various Event Tiers and then very little complaining on the forums afterwards?
People ask for help, sure. But how many people really say "I can't complete the last Tier of this Event so despite it saying it's supposed to be hard I insist you lower the difficulty"?
How many people have asked for Enfys Nest's Bounty mission to be made easier? I'm not asking how many people have said "this is really tough, I can't do it, what do I need to do"; I'm asking how many people have specifically - as you say - requested a change in difficulty?
How many people have complained that the current C-3PO event is too hard and the difficulty must therefore change? I'm not asking how many people have said "this is really tough, I can't do it, what do I need to do"; I'm asking how many people have specifically - as you say - requested a change in difficulty?
Warn people that this is a very hard Territory Battle that they can't cancel and they will miss a Hoth Territory Battle if they do it.
People will try and fail and lots of people will ask for help.
But do you really think that's not going to happen anyway?
And if you really think people are going to demand a decrease in difficulty if there is no 80 million limit ... do you really think people aren't going to demand it even with the 80 million limit? If, as you say, people are going to moan about the difficulty and some are going to ask for the difficulty to be reduced; it's going to happen anyway.
They cant just make it easier so everyone can participate, and then beat it "in no time". New content like this needs to have some lasting effect to then allow them to work on other projects.
But most people aren't asking for that. At least, I'm not and I wasn't in my original post.
By all means keep it hard. By all means bring in more hard PvE "end game content". But allow us to play it. Don't decide "it's too tough for you therefore we're not going to let you even try"; let US make that decision for ourselves.
This doesn't work well for many reasons, 1- the amount of complaining that will follow and requests for the change in difficulty.
They are avoiding most of that in 1 simple move.
They also want to add an extra layer for developed players to get the new materials and give a goal to newer players to build up to.
In the background they could also be doing this (pure speculation) to draw out the big players who swim in the small pond for better rewards.
As they stated, this is not like a raid where you can quit and move on. The guild would be locked in for 4 days on an event where they cant make it work. You and yours may be "strong enough" to endure, but in the end that could really hurt the player base to allow everyone to out themselves in that situation, and no the "but you were warned" suggestions floating around dont really help that in any way.
If warnings in game don't work, why are there warnings on various Event Tiers and then very little complaining on the forums afterwards?
People ask for help, sure. But how many people really say "I can't complete the last Tier of this Event so despite it saying it's supposed to be hard I insist you lower the difficulty"?
How many people have asked for Enfys Nest's Bounty mission to be made easier? I'm not asking how many people have said "this is really tough, I can't do it, what do I need to do"; I'm asking how many people have specifically - as you say - requested a change in difficulty?
How many people have complained that the current C-3PO event is too hard and the difficulty must therefore change? I'm not asking how many people have said "this is really tough, I can't do it, what do I need to do"; I'm asking how many people have specifically - as you say - requested a change in difficulty?
They cant just make it easier so everyone can participate, and then beat it "in no time". New content like this needs to have some lasting effect to then allow them to work on other projects.
But most people aren't asking for that. At least, I'm not and I wasn't in my original post.
By all means keep it hard. By all means bring in more hard PvE "end game content". But allow us to play it. Don't decide "it's too tough for you therefore we're not going to let you even try"; let US make that decision for ourselves.
This doesn't work well for many reasons, 1- the amount of complaining that will follow and requests for the change in difficulty.
They are avoiding most of that in 1 simple move.
They also want to add an extra layer for developed players to get the new materials and give a goal to newer players to build up to.
In the background they could also be doing this (pure speculation) to draw out the big players who swim in the small pond for better rewards.
As they stated, this is not like a raid where you can quit and move on. The guild would be locked in for 4 days on an event where they cant make it work. You and yours may be "strong enough" to endure, but in the end that could really hurt the player base to allow everyone to out themselves in that situation, and no the "but you were warned" suggestions floating around dont really help that in any way.
If warnings in game don't work, why are there warnings on various Event Tiers and then very little complaining on the forums afterwards?
People ask for help, sure. But how many people really say "I can't complete the last Tier of this Event so despite it saying it's supposed to be hard I insist you lower the difficulty"?
How many people have asked for Enfys Nest's Bounty mission to be made easier? I'm not asking how many people have said "this is really tough, I can't do it, what do I need to do"; I'm asking how many people have specifically - as you say - requested a change in difficulty?
How many people have complained that the current C-3PO event is too hard and the difficulty must therefore change? I'm not asking how many people have said "this is really tough, I can't do it, what do I need to do"; I'm asking how many people have specifically - as you say - requested a change in difficulty?
You must be on a different forum than I am.
I didn't say there wasn't any. Let me stress that point.
I quite appreciate some people do try to insist the difficulty is reduced.
What I'm saying is, more people ask for help then try and get the event changed.
And do the Devs REALLY think that an 80 million requirement is going to stop all the moaning?
I can see this is going to become a Thing if I don't stress it again - actually, it probably will even then but I might as well try to **** it in the bud.
Yes, people complain about the difficulty.
But Kyno specifically referred to the "requests for the change in difficulty". There's a difference between saying "this is too hard, it must change" and "this is too hard, what do I need to do it". It's the first one I'm saying doesn't happen often.
Yes, it happens some. But if the reason for the 80 million requirement is to stop it from happening at all; it won't work.
I guess you're saying you don't want me to post the bunch of screenshots I just went and captured of people complaining rudely about the difficulty and threatening to quit over it without asking for help.
I guess you're saying you don't want me to post the bunch of screenshots I just went and captured of people complaining rudely about the difficulty and threatening to quit over it without asking for help.
I guess you're saying you don't want me to post the bunch of screenshots I just went and captured of people complaining rudely about the difficulty and threatening to quit over it without asking for help.
If you were to do that, I'd have to spend hours getting a load of screen shots of people asking for help. And I'd only stop when I had more than you.
I repeat: I know it does happen, but it's not as common as people asking for help.
Why don't we let this one alone and instead discuss my point of ow this 80 million requirement won't stop the complaining or the "requests" to lower the difficulty.
So a guild needs 80 million GP to participate in the Geonosis Territory Battle.
This is claimed to be to give the smaller guilds something to aim for. But it won't work like that.
You honestly think that if a guild is on 70 million, all the members will happily sit there and think to themselves "oh, we have something to strive for"? And not "oh, I need to find another guild"?
They then leave making it even harder for the remaining players to qualify. Suddenly the guild drops to 65 million and more players start wondering about whether they'd be better in another guild.
All that happens is that smaller guilds are punished.
But there's no need for that.
It's claimed that the participation requirement is to give smaller guilds something to aim for but excluding players doesn't achieve that. Before my current guild could defeat the Heroic Tank, we had something to aim for but we could still TRY. We could start the Heroic Tank every so often, see how well we would, and then go back to the normal Tank for a few more weeks. And now we have reached the point where we kill the Tank in less than 2 hours.
But all those failed attempts weren't wasted. They didn't put us off. Nobody thought "I can't access this game content because I've thrown my lot in with this guild so I better now leave". We tried, we failed, we picked ourselves up, we tried again.
Why not allow us to try the Geonosis Territory War and fail? What's wrong with that?
That would be far more encouraging as it would at least show guilds what they are missing, where they are failing and show people what is needed. But by not allowing that, it remains a closed door. It's like saying to people that you can't even watch the Olympics if you didn't qualify.
Or, maybe it's because 80M gp guilds will get 1* 2* max. And then complain about the new TB being, "ToO dIfFiCuLt"
I guess you're saying you don't want me to post the bunch of screenshots I just went and captured of people complaining rudely about the difficulty and threatening to quit over it without asking for help.
I guess you're saying you don't want me to post the bunch of screenshots I just went and captured of people complaining rudely about the difficulty and threatening to quit over it without asking for help.
If you were to do that, I'd have to spend hours getting a load of screen shots of people asking for help. And I'd only stop when I had more than you.
I repeat: I know it does happen, but it's not as common as people asking for help.
Why don't we let this one alone and instead discuss my point of ow this 80 million requirement won't stop the complaining or the "requests" to lower the difficulty.
I don't see how the number of posts that can be construed as asking for help or asking for a difficulty change is really relevant to anything. My point is simply that there are A LOT of people who do the latter, regardless of the fact that there are also people who do the former. It's not about which is more frequent. It's about the fact that putting a message in game warning people that it's super difficult is not going to stop a huge amount of complaining that it's super difficult.
The 80m requirement won't stop complaining that it's too difficult among, say, the 80-100m guilds for whom it is actually still too difficult, I agree with that. It will presumably stop complaining from <80m guilds that they shouldn't even have been able to enter the event, since they can't actually enter the event.
Really, this all comes back to the point that while you personally might enjoy the opportunity to bring your neighborhood weekend team to fight Manchester United, a lot of other people would not actually enjoy that and would hate that the game allows them to attempt content at which they have zero chance of success. Just look at all the complaint threads about GA and the number of people who have posted that they don't even try when they see that their opponent's roster looks a lot stronger, and the game is terrible for even giving them that matchup.
I guess you're saying you don't want me to post the bunch of screenshots I just went and captured of people complaining rudely about the difficulty and threatening to quit over it without asking for help.
I guess you're saying you don't want me to post the bunch of screenshots I just went and captured of people complaining rudely about the difficulty and threatening to quit over it without asking for help.
If you were to do that, I'd have to spend hours getting a load of screen shots of people asking for help. And I'd only stop when I had more than you.
I repeat: I know it does happen, but it's not as common as people asking for help.
Why don't we let this one alone and instead discuss my point of ow this 80 million requirement won't stop the complaining or the "requests" to lower the difficulty.
I don't see how the number of posts that can be construed as asking for help or asking for a difficulty change is really relevant to anything. My point is simply that there are A LOT of people who do the former, regardless of the fact that there are also people who do the latter. It's not about which is more frequent. It's about the fact that putting a message in game warning people that it's super difficult is not going to stop a huge amount of complaining that it's super difficult.
The 80m requirement won't stop complaining that it's too difficult among, say, the 80-100m guilds for whom it is actually still too difficult, I agree with that. It will presumably stop complaining from <80m guilds that they shouldn't even have been able to enter the event, since they can't actually enter the event.
Really, this all comes back to the point that while you personally might enjoy the opportunity to bring your neighborhood weekend team to fight Manchester United, a lot of other people would not actually enjoy that and would hate that the game allows them to attempt content at which they have zero chance of success. Just look at all the complaint threads about GA and the number of people who have posted that they don't even try when they see that their opponent's roster looks a lot stronger, and the game is terrible for even giving them that matchup.
So because a vocal minority will complain, none of us are allowed it?
Sorry, the idea that this 80 million thing is because they don't want people to moan is just ridiculous.
Replies
You're right about hstr viability, that may present a problem.
Though it's not true that lifting off the GP entry limit for this TB will do anything for your situation. I bet that number is calculated at the point where it's debatable if a guild can attain a single star. You know this is a definitive limitation in TBs.
i.e. we calculate when my guild is able to achieve our next star. The absolute limit of that is full participation and full mission runs+our avaliable GP. Ofc that's not the point we end up getting to the next star. It comes much later due to failed missions(no optimal teams avaliable, didn't bother, autod etc) and not full attendance.
Your peeps won't be leaving because the event is locked for you, they will be leaving because you are not able to get stars and they found one that does.
Same for us, say mine gets 20 stars when it's released, they will leave for those that gets 25-30 stars.
I’ve also been playing for 1.5 years in the same guild that started at the same time. We were very intentional about farming for the sith raid, and even though the first time we beat the heroic version was 10 months after it was released, we did it and practically the whole guild has Traya unlocked now. My guild also is over the GP limit for Geonosis territory battles, and we only have 2 guild members over 4 million GP.
As for events, free players and low spenders are not going to be able to get every legendary or journey character the first or even second time they come out. But you can get some. I just got C-3PO at 7*, but I’m nowhere near ready for Darth Revan next week. It’s a matter of priorities and focus.
The developers do focus a lot of effort on paying players and long-time players who already have a lot of the characters and are looking for something new. That is how they make money. But you can choose your own focus. The devs want the new TB to be something we strive for that starts off incredibly difficult, but gets easier as they release new characters and power creep continues. You can choose to work toward that goal or work toward something else instead. It’s up to you.
Or, maybe it's because 80M gp guilds will get 1* 2* max. And then complain about the new TB being, "ToO dIfFiCuLt"
1*-2*? That's pretty optimistic xD.
If your guild is weak, its your guild leader fault. That's all. If your guild weak and unorganized, ask your leader and officers, why this happens. If they cannot drive guild forward end-game content successfully, find another guild. Or create your own and show your leader skill.
There is many guilds with GP around 150m that still cannot farm HSTR, while others start farm it around 100-120m GP.
If your guild cannot beat HSTR, why you want to be able to participate in game mode, that intended to be more hard and advanced than HSTR? Just curious.
DeathStarIIMaintenanceCrew
https://swgoh.gg/u/obishenobi/
The problem with a thread when it starts getting to 4 or more pages is that often people new to the thread don't bother reading everything. I'm afraid this is evident here as every point you've raised has already been addressed.
The main point to bring to your attention is that nobody is complaining about "end game content". Nobody is complaining about it being very hard. What we're complaining about is that we're not allowed to try it.
Why can't it be open to everyone with a warning that it's intended to be hard? That way, guilds with lower GP can still try it and they will get 0 rewards. BUT THEY CAN STILL TRY IT. They can still play. They are not locked out of a new part of the game.
THAT is the complaint. Not the existence of new "end game content". Bring on MORE "end game content" but LET US PLAY!
Firstly it seem to fly in the face of the Q&A when they were commenting on a padawan system for guilds. This is going to seriously effect those guilds that already do this, no longer can you afford to nurture and grow new players in a guild.
Secondly I thought the whole point of TB was a sliding scale of rewards? Surely all the Genosian TB needs is a steeper curve for stars and rewards. You just make the rewards equivalent for most guilds across the 2, so 20 stars in Hoth gives the same rewards as 5 stars in Geonosis. And so 48 stars in Hoth is say 30 stars in Geonosis, this gives plenty of room for guilds that have totally conquered Hoth. Heck you could go even simpler and just give the Genosian TB 100 stars in total and match like for like from Hoth. Then simply add Geonosis to the current cycle of TBs.
They dont want to make content that will be easily beat by everyone in a short time. They are making this the next tier in difficulty, I'm imagining tier 1 will be more of a tier 5 currently and we will go up from there.
They cant just make it easier so everyone can participate, and then beat it "in no time". New content like this needs to have some lasting effect to then allow them to work on other projects.
But most people aren't asking for that. At least, I'm not and I wasn't in my original post.
By all means keep it hard. By all means bring in more hard PvE "end game content". But allow us to play it. Don't decide "it's too tough for you therefore we're not going to let you even try"; let US make that decision for ourselves.
You are giving star equivalents that make it almost on par with the current TB. How is that not making it easier if the star counts have relatively low equivalents?
*I'M* not, no. You are confusing me with someone else.
Sorry, you responded to my response to them as though I was talking to you.
This doesn't work well for many reasons, 1- the amount of complaining that will follow and requests for the change in difficulty.
They are avoiding most of that in 1 simple move.
They also want to add an extra layer for developed players to get the new materials and give a goal to newer players to build up to.
In the background they could also be doing this (pure speculation) to draw out the big players who swim in the small pond for better rewards.
As they stated, this is not like a raid where you can quit and move on. The guild would be locked in for 4 days on an event where they cant make it work. You and yours may be "strong enough" to endure, but in the end that could really hurt the player base to allow everyone to out themselves in that situation, and no the "but you were warned" suggestions floating around dont really help that in any way.
Warning don't work? Not even if they get implemented in game where you have to override them to take the action?
If warnings in game don't work, why are there warnings on various Event Tiers and then very little complaining on the forums afterwards?
People ask for help, sure. But how many people really say "I can't complete the last Tier of this Event so despite it saying it's supposed to be hard I insist you lower the difficulty"?
How many people have asked for Enfys Nest's Bounty mission to be made easier? I'm not asking how many people have said "this is really tough, I can't do it, what do I need to do"; I'm asking how many people have specifically - as you say - requested a change in difficulty?
How many people have complained that the current C-3PO event is too hard and the difficulty must therefore change? I'm not asking how many people have said "this is really tough, I can't do it, what do I need to do"; I'm asking how many people have specifically - as you say - requested a change in difficulty?
Warn people that this is a very hard Territory Battle that they can't cancel and they will miss a Hoth Territory Battle if they do it.
People will try and fail and lots of people will ask for help.
But do you really think that's not going to happen anyway?
And if you really think people are going to demand a decrease in difficulty if there is no 80 million limit ... do you really think people aren't going to demand it even with the 80 million limit? If, as you say, people are going to moan about the difficulty and some are going to ask for the difficulty to be reduced; it's going to happen anyway.
You must be on a different forum than I am.
I didn't say there wasn't any. Let me stress that point.
I quite appreciate some people do try to insist the difficulty is reduced.
What I'm saying is, more people ask for help then try and get the event changed.
And do the Devs REALLY think that an 80 million requirement is going to stop all the moaning?
Yes, people complain about the difficulty.
But Kyno specifically referred to the "requests for the change in difficulty". There's a difference between saying "this is too hard, it must change" and "this is too hard, what do I need to do it". It's the first one I'm saying doesn't happen often.
Yes, it happens some. But if the reason for the 80 million requirement is to stop it from happening at all; it won't work.
If you were to do that, I'd have to spend hours getting a load of screen shots of people asking for help. And I'd only stop when I had more than you.
I repeat: I know it does happen, but it's not as common as people asking for help.
Why don't we let this one alone and instead discuss my point of ow this 80 million requirement won't stop the complaining or the "requests" to lower the difficulty.
O.5* - 0.75* prolly
I don't see how the number of posts that can be construed as asking for help or asking for a difficulty change is really relevant to anything. My point is simply that there are A LOT of people who do the latter, regardless of the fact that there are also people who do the former. It's not about which is more frequent. It's about the fact that putting a message in game warning people that it's super difficult is not going to stop a huge amount of complaining that it's super difficult.
The 80m requirement won't stop complaining that it's too difficult among, say, the 80-100m guilds for whom it is actually still too difficult, I agree with that. It will presumably stop complaining from <80m guilds that they shouldn't even have been able to enter the event, since they can't actually enter the event.
Really, this all comes back to the point that while you personally might enjoy the opportunity to bring your neighborhood weekend team to fight Manchester United, a lot of other people would not actually enjoy that and would hate that the game allows them to attempt content at which they have zero chance of success. Just look at all the complaint threads about GA and the number of people who have posted that they don't even try when they see that their opponent's roster looks a lot stronger, and the game is terrible for even giving them that matchup.
So because a vocal minority will complain, none of us are allowed it?
Sorry, the idea that this 80 million thing is because they don't want people to moan is just ridiculous.