My guild ran into this wall for HSTR. We were not ready and were bleeding members who were ready. We couldn't get recruits who were ready, because why would they join us when they could join a guild that was already completing it.
The reality of this game is that in order to stay competitive you must be willing to move guilds. Why not look for a merger with another guild, both guilds can cut their less active members and keep their core membership together. It's what we had to do and have kept our core members and made new friends. At some point it may happen again. It's just how it goes.
... And if this TB works like the others, you mainly need players with enough teams to complete the battles for the bonus points which means focused GP on a few teams rather than a massive number of GP across the board.
That isn’t true. If you want to beat DS Hoth, you’ll need a lot of character gp beside doing 4/4 on all combat missions. Otherwise you won’t 3* both ground territories in p6!
I guess you're saying you don't want me to post the bunch of screenshots I just went and captured of people complaining rudely about the difficulty and threatening to quit over it without asking for help.
I guess you're saying you don't want me to post the bunch of screenshots I just went and captured of people complaining rudely about the difficulty and threatening to quit over it without asking for help.
If you were to do that, I'd have to spend hours getting a load of screen shots of people asking for help. And I'd only stop when I had more than you.
I repeat: I know it does happen, but it's not as common as people asking for help.
Why don't we let this one alone and instead discuss my point of ow this 80 million requirement won't stop the complaining or the "requests" to lower the difficulty.
I don't see how the number of posts that can be construed as asking for help or asking for a difficulty change is really relevant to anything. My point is simply that there are A LOT of people who do the former, regardless of the fact that there are also people who do the latter. It's not about which is more frequent. It's about the fact that putting a message in game warning people that it's super difficult is not going to stop a huge amount of complaining that it's super difficult.
The 80m requirement won't stop complaining that it's too difficult among, say, the 80-100m guilds for whom it is actually still too difficult, I agree with that. It will presumably stop complaining from <80m guilds that they shouldn't even have been able to enter the event, since they can't actually enter the event.
Really, this all comes back to the point that while you personally might enjoy the opportunity to bring your neighborhood weekend team to fight Manchester United, a lot of other people would not actually enjoy that and would hate that the game allows them to attempt content at which they have zero chance of success. Just look at all the complaint threads about GA and the number of people who have posted that they don't even try when they see that their opponent's roster looks a lot stronger, and the game is terrible for even giving them that matchup.
So because a vocal minority will complain, none of us are allowed it?
Sorry, the idea that this 80 million thing is because they don't want people to moan is just ridiculous.
They don't want players to have a terrible experience because their guild isn't "advanced" enough to have a shot at the new TB map.
Reducing the moaning is just a possitive side effect and obviously never the goal.
They cant just make it easier so everyone can participate, and then beat it "in no time". New content like this needs to have some lasting effect to then allow them to work on other projects.
But most people aren't asking for that. At least, I'm not and I wasn't in my original post.
By all means keep it hard. By all means bring in more hard PvE "end game content". But allow us to play it. Don't decide "it's too tough for you therefore we're not going to let you even try"; let US make that decision for ourselves.
You keep saying that and I kepp telling you, that it is pointless to praticipate, because you haven't enough gp to do anything relevant!!!
Try when the guild reaches 80mil
Tell me, how exactly does it adversely affect YOU if HIS guild decides to try it and fails to gain a star? The only ones hurt by that decision are HIS guildmates. Not YOU. So THEY should be able to make that decision since it only affects THEM.
And besides, since when has GP alone been a definitive indicator of success? A player with X million GP evenly spread out across every character possible is going to fail miserably against most high-end content, whereas a player with X million GP focused on a handful of "synergized" teams geared toward specific content is going to fare significantly better against that content. Heck, even between the LS and DS Hoth battles there are massive discrepancies. I myself am an example of that one. I blow through every single DS battle with ease and have high-end DS teams to spare because most of my high-end teams are DS. When it comes to the LS battles, I have the teams to complete every stage of every mission just barely and I can't do all the special missions because I never farmed/geared Rogue One.
But the main argument here is let us freaking try the content. It doesn't hurt anyone else to let us try. If we fail, then so be it, but at least we got to try. I like playing this game for the actual fun of playing it, not for the rewards. Heck, I wish there were a practice mode or something where we could just keep playing when there's nothing else to do without having to waste energy. I'd even pay money to unlock it if it were a one-time deal just to have fun when I'm bored but out of energy. Again, we don't need a nanny to tell us it's too hard so you can't try. And even if we try and completely fail, we still gain something valuable from that. Maybe we get a star or two. Maybe we don't get any, but we can at least see how close we came. Once you know the point requirements and how many points each mission gives, it's stupid simple math to calculate what you need. By letting us see how far we can get, we can very easily determine what we need for each star. If we need to be able to beat X more missions, we can work on teams that will do it. If we need X Y and Z characters to fill squads, we can start farming those. But we should have the option to make our own choice to try or not.
I guess you're saying you don't want me to post the bunch of screenshots I just went and captured of people complaining rudely about the difficulty and threatening to quit over it without asking for help.
I guess you're saying you don't want me to post the bunch of screenshots I just went and captured of people complaining rudely about the difficulty and threatening to quit over it without asking for help.
If you were to do that, I'd have to spend hours getting a load of screen shots of people asking for help. And I'd only stop when I had more than you.
I repeat: I know it does happen, but it's not as common as people asking for help.
Why don't we let this one alone and instead discuss my point of ow this 80 million requirement won't stop the complaining or the "requests" to lower the difficulty.
I don't see how the number of posts that can be construed as asking for help or asking for a difficulty change is really relevant to anything. My point is simply that there are A LOT of people who do the former, regardless of the fact that there are also people who do the latter. It's not about which is more frequent. It's about the fact that putting a message in game warning people that it's super difficult is not going to stop a huge amount of complaining that it's super difficult.
The 80m requirement won't stop complaining that it's too difficult among, say, the 80-100m guilds for whom it is actually still too difficult, I agree with that. It will presumably stop complaining from <80m guilds that they shouldn't even have been able to enter the event, since they can't actually enter the event.
Really, this all comes back to the point that while you personally might enjoy the opportunity to bring your neighborhood weekend team to fight Manchester United, a lot of other people would not actually enjoy that and would hate that the game allows them to attempt content at which they have zero chance of success. Just look at all the complaint threads about GA and the number of people who have posted that they don't even try when they see that their opponent's roster looks a lot stronger, and the game is terrible for even giving them that matchup.
So because a vocal minority will complain, none of us are allowed it?
Sorry, the idea that this 80 million thing is because they don't want people to moan is just ridiculous.
They don't want players to have a terrible experience because their guild isn't "advanced" enough to have a shot at the new TB map.
Reducing the moaning is just a possitive side effect and obviously never the goal.
But as the post immediately below yours by Lanbo suggests, who gets to choose what constitutes a "terrible experience" for other players? We don't all play this game for the rewards alone - some of us believe that's just a never ending loop, you keep playing to get the stuff that allows you to keep playing. Some of us play the game because we like to play the game for its own sake. Sure, the rewards help because they make us better able to deal with new things but oh wait suddenly we're not even allowed to try the new thing at all!
For me, a terrible experience is not trying a game and failing. A far worse experience is someone else deciding for me whether or not I'm good enough to even be allowed to try. Surely I should be allowed to fail if I want to? If my guild isn't advanced enough, that's up to me.
This doesn't work well for many reasons, 1- the amount of complaining that will follow and requests for the change in difficulty.
They are avoiding most of that in 1 simple move.
No, all that does is trade one set of complaints for another. People will always complain about one thing or another, it's an unfortunate fact of life.
They also want to add an extra layer for developed players to get the new materials and give a goal to newer players to build up to.
Agreed. However, why does that necessitate telling some guilds you can't try? How does letting us try and fail hurt anyone else other than ourselves? It's not like the guilds are thousands of people and it would be nearly impossible to make a decision together. We're max 50, we can communicate with each other and come to our own consensus. Sure it may not be unanimous, but nothing ever is.
But you know, an easy solution to all of this would be to have a trial run where it's not run concurrently with Hoth so nobody has to choose. Let every guild compete. No harm, no foul. No rewards for anyone to miss out on. There would be no risk at all to anyone. Every guild could see how far they could get. If they fail miserably, then they know not to try it if they have to choose. But if they are able to get one or more stars, then they know that and can decide accordingly.
Really, this all comes back to the point that while you personally might enjoy the opportunity to bring your neighborhood weekend team to fight Manchester United, a lot of other people would not actually enjoy that and would hate that the game allows them to attempt content at which they have zero chance of success. Just look at all the complaint threads about GA and the number of people who have posted that they don't even try when they see that their opponent's roster looks a lot stronger, and the game is terrible for even giving them that matchup.
I appreciate the comparison, but that's not really a fair one to make. TBs are a fixed difficulty. Those players are complaining about the matchmaking system for GA. That's an ever changing match-up. And the devs have even stated it's not perfect and they're working on it. Although, if you're making that comparison, maybe we should stick with it because apparently all the complaining about the matchmaking is getting CG to fix it. By that token, we need to keep complaining about this so they will change it.
I guess you're saying you don't want me to post the bunch of screenshots I just went and captured of people complaining rudely about the difficulty and threatening to quit over it without asking for help.
I guess you're saying you don't want me to post the bunch of screenshots I just went and captured of people complaining rudely about the difficulty and threatening to quit over it without asking for help.
If you were to do that, I'd have to spend hours getting a load of screen shots of people asking for help. And I'd only stop when I had more than you.
I repeat: I know it does happen, but it's not as common as people asking for help.
Why don't we let this one alone and instead discuss my point of ow this 80 million requirement won't stop the complaining or the "requests" to lower the difficulty.
I don't see how the number of posts that can be construed as asking for help or asking for a difficulty change is really relevant to anything. My point is simply that there are A LOT of people who do the former, regardless of the fact that there are also people who do the latter. It's not about which is more frequent. It's about the fact that putting a message in game warning people that it's super difficult is not going to stop a huge amount of complaining that it's super difficult.
The 80m requirement won't stop complaining that it's too difficult among, say, the 80-100m guilds for whom it is actually still too difficult, I agree with that. It will presumably stop complaining from <80m guilds that they shouldn't even have been able to enter the event, since they can't actually enter the event.
Really, this all comes back to the point that while you personally might enjoy the opportunity to bring your neighborhood weekend team to fight Manchester United, a lot of other people would not actually enjoy that and would hate that the game allows them to attempt content at which they have zero chance of success. Just look at all the complaint threads about GA and the number of people who have posted that they don't even try when they see that their opponent's roster looks a lot stronger, and the game is terrible for even giving them that matchup.
So because a vocal minority will complain, none of us are allowed it?
Sorry, the idea that this 80 million thing is because they don't want people to moan is just ridiculous.
I don't think it's because they don't want people to moan. I think it's because they know you're not ready and they think it would be a frustrating and unpleasant experience for many people to be allowed to try something they have no chance at. You insist that you wouldn't find it frustrating and unpleasant so you want the option, but if they honestly believe that the majority of people in your position feel differently then it's a reasonable decision despite not being the one you would prefer.
I guess you're saying you don't want me to post the bunch of screenshots I just went and captured of people complaining rudely about the difficulty and threatening to quit over it without asking for help.
I guess you're saying you don't want me to post the bunch of screenshots I just went and captured of people complaining rudely about the difficulty and threatening to quit over it without asking for help.
If you were to do that, I'd have to spend hours getting a load of screen shots of people asking for help. And I'd only stop when I had more than you.
I repeat: I know it does happen, but it's not as common as people asking for help.
Why don't we let this one alone and instead discuss my point of ow this 80 million requirement won't stop the complaining or the "requests" to lower the difficulty.
I don't see how the number of posts that can be construed as asking for help or asking for a difficulty change is really relevant to anything. My point is simply that there are A LOT of people who do the former, regardless of the fact that there are also people who do the latter. It's not about which is more frequent. It's about the fact that putting a message in game warning people that it's super difficult is not going to stop a huge amount of complaining that it's super difficult.
The 80m requirement won't stop complaining that it's too difficult among, say, the 80-100m guilds for whom it is actually still too difficult, I agree with that. It will presumably stop complaining from <80m guilds that they shouldn't even have been able to enter the event, since they can't actually enter the event.
Really, this all comes back to the point that while you personally might enjoy the opportunity to bring your neighborhood weekend team to fight Manchester United, a lot of other people would not actually enjoy that and would hate that the game allows them to attempt content at which they have zero chance of success. Just look at all the complaint threads about GA and the number of people who have posted that they don't even try when they see that their opponent's roster looks a lot stronger, and the game is terrible for even giving them that matchup.
So because a vocal minority will complain, none of us are allowed it?
Sorry, the idea that this 80 million thing is because they don't want people to moan is just ridiculous.
They don't want players to have a terrible experience because their guild isn't "advanced" enough to have a shot at the new TB map.
Reducing the moaning is just a possitive side effect and obviously never the goal.
But as the post immediately below yours by Lanbo suggests, who gets to choose what constitutes a "terrible experience" for other players? We don't all play this game for the rewards alone - some of us believe that's just a never ending loop, you keep playing to get the stuff that allows you to keep playing. Some of us play the game because we like to play the game for its own sake. Sure, the rewards help because they make us better able to deal with new things but oh wait suddenly we're not even allowed to try the new thing at all!
For me, a terrible experience is not trying a game and failing. A far worse experience is someone else deciding for me whether or not I'm good enough to even be allowed to try. Surely I should be allowed to fail if I want to? If my guild isn't advanced enough, that's up to me.
You have to take into consideration that not everyone is like you. I'm willing to wager that for most players not getting to play an event because they're not ready and playing something else they're more ready for instead is a far better experience than failing horribly at something they are in no way, shape or form ready for just because their guild's leadership made a bad call or is like you.
I have no problem with you failing and potentially having a bad time, but it is in the devs' best interrest to not have that happen. For all i care you do HRS only eventhough you can't even clear p1.
You have to take into consideration that not everyone is like you.
Exactly.
So allow us to make the decision for ourselves.
And if people don't like their guild officers's decisions, then they can leave the guild. At the moment, they're going to be leaving because of a decision by the devs. The devs are cherry picking which guilds will survive. Surely it should be up to the players?
They cant just make it easier so everyone can participate, and then beat it "in no time". New content like this needs to have some lasting effect to then allow them to work on other projects.
But most people aren't asking for that. At least, I'm not and I wasn't in my original post.
By all means keep it hard. By all means bring in more hard PvE "end game content". But allow us to play it. Don't decide "it's too tough for you therefore we're not going to let you even try"; let US make that decision for ourselves.
This doesn't work well for many reasons, 1- the amount of complaining that will follow and requests for the change in difficulty.
They are avoiding most of that in 1 simple move.
They also want to add an extra layer for developed players to get the new materials and give a goal to newer players to build up to.
In the background they could also be doing this (pure speculation) to draw out the big players who swim in the small pond for better rewards.
As they stated, this is not like a raid where you can quit and move on. The guild would be locked in for 4 days on an event where they cant make it work. You and yours may be "strong enough" to endure, but in the end that could really hurt the player base to allow everyone to out themselves in that situation, and no the "but you were warned" suggestions floating around dont really help that in any way.
Warning don't work? Not even if they get implemented in game where you have to override them to take the action?
You think a warning will stop people from complaining about being locked into the content for 4 days that they cant make work?
You have to take into consideration that not everyone is like you.
Exactly.
So allow us to make the decision for ourselves.
And if people don't like their guild officers's decisions, then they can leave the guild. At the moment, they're going to be leaving because of a decision by the devs. The devs are cherry picking which guilds will survive. Surely it should be up to the players?
I can understand the choice the devs made in this matter. You can disagree with it, which i can also understand, but it just doesn't hurt smaller guilds.
also....
The devs are cherry picking which guilds survive? Wow.
Honestly though, i think shaking up guilds with new content is a good thing. Leechers will be booted and more players will find a guild that matches their intensity. Some guilds will die and their active members will most likely find a "better" home.
I'm probably gonna catch a lot of flac for that opinion because players can't look further than their own negative experiences of losing members and their guild breaking up, but for the game itself it's a blessing imo.
They dont want to make content that will be easily beat by everyone in a short time. They are making this the next tier in difficulty, I'm imagining tier 1 will be more of a tier 5 currently and we will go up from there.
They cant just make it easier so everyone can participate, and then beat it "in no time". New content like this needs to have some lasting effect to then allow them to work on other projects.
I'm fairly sure I left the high end difficulty open ended so I'm not sure where your "easily beat by everyone" argument is coming from, those last stars and thus the top rewards can be as hard to get as they want. Be that because the last round of battles ramps dramatically or that 1 of the battles in a zone is just super hard from the off or even maybe an entire zone is off limits to most guild/players thus limited your available star counts.
What I'm saying is there was no need to lock anybody out of a new map in a format that is specifically designed to scale in difficult and reward with the ability/power of each guild, it just doesn't make sense.
... And if this TB works like the others, you mainly need players with enough teams to complete the battles for the bonus points which means focused GP on a few teams rather than a massive number of GP across the board.
That isn’t true. If you want to beat DS Hoth, you’ll need a lot of character gp beside doing 4/4 on all combat missions. Otherwise you won’t 3* both ground territories in p6!
What I said is true. First off, I never said anything about it not being necessary to have lots of characters to get 3* on ground territories. What I said was it was more important to have teams that can complete the combat missions for the bonus points. While we don't have the info to be 100% certain, I think it's probably safe to compare phase 1 of GTB to phase 6 of Hoth. I couldn't remember the exact numbers so I found a pic online with the info. Completing all combat missions in phase 6 will net you 1.623 million (that's just the 3 ground missions, not even counting ships) in addition to the GP deployed for the 3 squads you used. For ease of math, let's just say 100,000 GP for each squad. So that's 1.923 million points for fully completing those 3 missions. Why don't you open up your game look up your character GP, subtract the GP of the 3 teams YOU use for those 3 missions and tell me how much GP you've got left over to deploy? I can complete all combat missions in phase 6 light or dark and my character GP is only 1.8 million (including the 3 teams I would use). I guaranteed get more points from those missions than from just deploying. So yes, it is 100% fact that being able to complete the missions is MORE important than just having GP. Even on lower phases it is still more important to complete the missions for the extra points. It always gets more points, that's the whole point (pun intended ).
Now if CG wanted to tell us unequivocally that if you have less than 80 million GP as a guild it is absolutely without a shadow of a doubt mathematically impossible to earn a single star in GTB, then I would accept that.
They dont want to make content that will be easily beat by everyone in a short time. They are making this the next tier in difficulty, I'm imagining tier 1 will be more of a tier 5 currently and we will go up from there.
They cant just make it easier so everyone can participate, and then beat it "in no time". New content like this needs to have some lasting effect to then allow them to work on other projects.
I'm fairly sure I left the high end difficulty open ended so I'm not sure where your "easily beat by everyone" argument is coming from, those last stars and thus the top rewards can be as hard to get as they want. Be that because the last round of battles ramps dramatically or that 1 of the battles in a zone is just super hard from the off or even maybe an entire zone is off limits to most guild/players thus limited your available star counts.
What I'm saying is there was no need to lock anybody out of a new map in a format that is specifically designed to scale in difficult and reward with the ability/power of each guild, it just doesn't make sense.
I guess easily accessible for all, which means it needs to be suited to them being able to make progress. Which means easy to beat, up to some level. So yes that is what would have to happen to be able to give everyone access...
It's not my design, but it does make sense. I'm not saying anyone should be happy or complacent about the decision, but everyone is really worked up for not having much of the reward/difficulty details. We have other gate blocks that function the same way, but this one is more directly stated and I think that is causing issues.
In the end this sets the bar more clearly, which many have issues with when requirements are released.
This same concept comes up every time there is new content.
New content tends to stir things up, but in the end stable/healthy guilds usually make it through.
Kyno, normally your posts make sense and are fair comments.
On this occasion I think you are wrong and have struck a low blow to new/lower gp guilds.
But I agree with what you say about new content always stirs people up as proven by thousands of posts on this forum.
But not allowing lower gp guilds access is cruel and demoralising. They should be able to try the event even if the fail to complete it, by trying and failing that will truly give them something to strive for, because an 80 million gp guild may not necessarily have the right toons to complete it. Whereas if you can at least try it you know which toons to farm.
Sub note I’m in a 170 million guild so doesn’t affect me personally but think the 80 million minimum is bad for the community and game as a whole
It's not bad for guild's and not bad for the game. Get that in your head...
If you're having to resort to the phrase "get that in your head", it is usually because your argument isn't powerful enough to sway people and not because others don't understand it.
If CG had said:
“This Tb is structured such that a guild with >80M GP will not be able to earn a single star (even with 50 completed CMs).”
Would you still be arguing that you want to take part in it (given that the alternative is to take part in Hoth Tb and earn rewards there)?
And the follow up question:
If you say “yes”, can you honestly say that you all wouldn’t be on here in a rage complaining that they had somehow screwed you out of rewards?
If CG had said:
“This Tb is structured such that a guild with >80M GP will not be able to earn a single star (even with 50 completed CMs).”
Would you still be arguing that you want to take part in it (given that the alternative is to take part in Hoth Tb and earn rewards there)?
And the follow up question:
If you say “yes”, can you honestly say that you all wouldn’t be on here in a rage complaining that they had somehow screwed you out of rewards?
Are you asking us if we'd been happy if they'd deliberately rigged it?
Um, no ...
Not entirely sure why you would have thought we'd say yes ...
If CG had said:
“This Tb is structured such that a guild with >80M GP will not be able to earn a single star (even with 50 completed CMs).”
Would you still be arguing that you want to take part in it (given that the alternative is to take part in Hoth Tb and earn rewards there)?
And the follow up question:
If you say “yes”, can you honestly say that you all wouldn’t be on here in a rage complaining that they had somehow screwed you out of rewards?
Are you asking us if we'd been happy if they'd deliberately rigged it?
Um, no ...
Not entirely sure why you would have thought we'd say yes ...
But, I'm sure they *have* "deliberately rigged" it.
Why? Because it's end-game content. It is simply not meant for guilds under a certain point. Be mad at that if you want, but it's not really different than any other game with end-game content.
If CG had said:
“This Tb is structured such that a guild with >80M GP will not be able to earn a single star (even with 50 completed CMs).”
Would you still be arguing that you want to take part in it (given that the alternative is to take part in Hoth Tb and earn rewards there)?
And the follow up question:
If you say “yes”, can you honestly say that you all wouldn’t be on here in a rage complaining that they had somehow screwed you out of rewards?
Are you asking us if we'd been happy if they'd deliberately rigged it?
Um, no ...
Not entirely sure why you would have thought we'd say yes ...
But, I'm sure they *have* "deliberately rigged" it.
Why? Because it's end-game content. It is simply not meant for guilds under a certain point. Be mad at that if you want, but it's not really different than any other game with end-game content.
Um ...
I'm really not following your logic.
The current state of affairs is that if you are in a guild of 80,000,000, you can participate. If you are in a guild of 79,999,999, you cannot.
Your question, if I understood it correctly, was would it be better if a guild with 80,000,000 can earn stars but a guild of 79,999,999 cannot?
If CG had said:
“This Tb is structured such that a guild with >80M GP will not be able to earn a single star (even with 50 completed CMs).”
Would you still be arguing that you want to take part in it (given that the alternative is to take part in Hoth Tb and earn rewards there)?
And the follow up question:
If you say “yes”, can you honestly say that you all wouldn’t be on here in a rage complaining that they had somehow screwed you out of rewards?
Are you asking us if we'd been happy if they'd deliberately rigged it?
Um, no ...
Not entirely sure why you would have thought we'd say yes ...
But, I'm sure they *have* "deliberately rigged" it.
Why? Because it's end-game content. It is simply not meant for guilds under a certain point. Be mad at that if you want, but it's not really different than any other game with end-game content.
Um ...
I'm really not following your logic.
The current state of affairs is that if you are in a guild of 80,000,000, you can participate. If you are in a guild of 79,999,999, you cannot.
Your question, if I understood it correctly, was would it be better if a guild with 80,000,000 can earn stars but a guild of 79,999,999 cannot?
I don't have a question, so no, you did not understand correctly.
Recap:
1. You said the 80M restrictions is dumb
2. Someone asked if you'd be mad if they let you do it only to find out that a 79.999M guild cannot mathematically get a single star
3. You said that would be "rigging" it and you would be mad at that
4. I pointed out that you're being silly, because end-game content is not meant for early-game players, so there is no reason to expect a 79M guild would be able to get any stars at all
Rancor: Destroyer of Guilds
CLS: Destroyer of Guilds
Tank: Destroyer of Guilds
Hoth LSTB: Destroyer of Guilds
Hoth DSTB: Destroyer of Guilds
STR: Destroyer of Guilds
For the record: not only does CG not care that your guild may or may not be destroyed, but they think breaking up guilds every now and again is healthy.
Replies
The reality of this game is that in order to stay competitive you must be willing to move guilds. Why not look for a merger with another guild, both guilds can cut their less active members and keep their core membership together. It's what we had to do and have kept our core members and made new friends. At some point it may happen again. It's just how it goes.
That isn’t true. If you want to beat DS Hoth, you’ll need a lot of character gp beside doing 4/4 on all combat missions. Otherwise you won’t 3* both ground territories in p6!
They don't want players to have a terrible experience because their guild isn't "advanced" enough to have a shot at the new TB map.
Reducing the moaning is just a possitive side effect and obviously never the goal.
Tell me, how exactly does it adversely affect YOU if HIS guild decides to try it and fails to gain a star? The only ones hurt by that decision are HIS guildmates. Not YOU. So THEY should be able to make that decision since it only affects THEM.
And besides, since when has GP alone been a definitive indicator of success? A player with X million GP evenly spread out across every character possible is going to fail miserably against most high-end content, whereas a player with X million GP focused on a handful of "synergized" teams geared toward specific content is going to fare significantly better against that content. Heck, even between the LS and DS Hoth battles there are massive discrepancies. I myself am an example of that one. I blow through every single DS battle with ease and have high-end DS teams to spare because most of my high-end teams are DS. When it comes to the LS battles, I have the teams to complete every stage of every mission just barely and I can't do all the special missions because I never farmed/geared Rogue One.
But the main argument here is let us freaking try the content. It doesn't hurt anyone else to let us try. If we fail, then so be it, but at least we got to try. I like playing this game for the actual fun of playing it, not for the rewards. Heck, I wish there were a practice mode or something where we could just keep playing when there's nothing else to do without having to waste energy. I'd even pay money to unlock it if it were a one-time deal just to have fun when I'm bored but out of energy. Again, we don't need a nanny to tell us it's too hard so you can't try. And even if we try and completely fail, we still gain something valuable from that. Maybe we get a star or two. Maybe we don't get any, but we can at least see how close we came. Once you know the point requirements and how many points each mission gives, it's stupid simple math to calculate what you need. By letting us see how far we can get, we can very easily determine what we need for each star. If we need to be able to beat X more missions, we can work on teams that will do it. If we need X Y and Z characters to fill squads, we can start farming those. But we should have the option to make our own choice to try or not.
But as the post immediately below yours by Lanbo suggests, who gets to choose what constitutes a "terrible experience" for other players? We don't all play this game for the rewards alone - some of us believe that's just a never ending loop, you keep playing to get the stuff that allows you to keep playing. Some of us play the game because we like to play the game for its own sake. Sure, the rewards help because they make us better able to deal with new things but oh wait suddenly we're not even allowed to try the new thing at all!
For me, a terrible experience is not trying a game and failing. A far worse experience is someone else deciding for me whether or not I'm good enough to even be allowed to try. Surely I should be allowed to fail if I want to? If my guild isn't advanced enough, that's up to me.
No, all that does is trade one set of complaints for another. People will always complain about one thing or another, it's an unfortunate fact of life.
Agreed. However, why does that necessitate telling some guilds you can't try? How does letting us try and fail hurt anyone else other than ourselves? It's not like the guilds are thousands of people and it would be nearly impossible to make a decision together. We're max 50, we can communicate with each other and come to our own consensus. Sure it may not be unanimous, but nothing ever is.
But you know, an easy solution to all of this would be to have a trial run where it's not run concurrently with Hoth so nobody has to choose. Let every guild compete. No harm, no foul. No rewards for anyone to miss out on. There would be no risk at all to anyone. Every guild could see how far they could get. If they fail miserably, then they know not to try it if they have to choose. But if they are able to get one or more stars, then they know that and can decide accordingly.
I don't think it's because they don't want people to moan. I think it's because they know you're not ready and they think it would be a frustrating and unpleasant experience for many people to be allowed to try something they have no chance at. You insist that you wouldn't find it frustrating and unpleasant so you want the option, but if they honestly believe that the majority of people in your position feel differently then it's a reasonable decision despite not being the one you would prefer.
You have to take into consideration that not everyone is like you. I'm willing to wager that for most players not getting to play an event because they're not ready and playing something else they're more ready for instead is a far better experience than failing horribly at something they are in no way, shape or form ready for just because their guild's leadership made a bad call or is like you.
I have no problem with you failing and potentially having a bad time, but it is in the devs' best interrest to not have that happen. For all i care you do HRS only eventhough you can't even clear p1.
Exactly.
So allow us to make the decision for ourselves.
And if people don't like their guild officers's decisions, then they can leave the guild. At the moment, they're going to be leaving because of a decision by the devs. The devs are cherry picking which guilds will survive. Surely it should be up to the players?
You think a warning will stop people from complaining about being locked into the content for 4 days that they cant make work?
I can understand the choice the devs made in this matter. You can disagree with it, which i can also understand, but it just doesn't hurt smaller guilds.
also....
The devs are cherry picking which guilds survive? Wow.
Honestly though, i think shaking up guilds with new content is a good thing. Leechers will be booted and more players will find a guild that matches their intensity. Some guilds will die and their active members will most likely find a "better" home.
I'm probably gonna catch a lot of flac for that opinion because players can't look further than their own negative experiences of losing members and their guild breaking up, but for the game itself it's a blessing imo.
I'm fairly sure I left the high end difficulty open ended so I'm not sure where your "easily beat by everyone" argument is coming from, those last stars and thus the top rewards can be as hard to get as they want. Be that because the last round of battles ramps dramatically or that 1 of the battles in a zone is just super hard from the off or even maybe an entire zone is off limits to most guild/players thus limited your available star counts.
What I'm saying is there was no need to lock anybody out of a new map in a format that is specifically designed to scale in difficult and reward with the ability/power of each guild, it just doesn't make sense.
Hyperbole sometimes works better than being level headed. *lol*
What I said is true. First off, I never said anything about it not being necessary to have lots of characters to get 3* on ground territories. What I said was it was more important to have teams that can complete the combat missions for the bonus points. While we don't have the info to be 100% certain, I think it's probably safe to compare phase 1 of GTB to phase 6 of Hoth. I couldn't remember the exact numbers so I found a pic online with the info. Completing all combat missions in phase 6 will net you 1.623 million (that's just the 3 ground missions, not even counting ships) in addition to the GP deployed for the 3 squads you used. For ease of math, let's just say 100,000 GP for each squad. So that's 1.923 million points for fully completing those 3 missions. Why don't you open up your game look up your character GP, subtract the GP of the 3 teams YOU use for those 3 missions and tell me how much GP you've got left over to deploy? I can complete all combat missions in phase 6 light or dark and my character GP is only 1.8 million (including the 3 teams I would use). I guaranteed get more points from those missions than from just deploying. So yes, it is 100% fact that being able to complete the missions is MORE important than just having GP. Even on lower phases it is still more important to complete the missions for the extra points. It always gets more points, that's the whole point (pun intended
Now if CG wanted to tell us unequivocally that if you have less than 80 million GP as a guild it is absolutely without a shadow of a doubt mathematically impossible to earn a single star in GTB, then I would accept that.
Even if they do ... I still want to have the ability to try it if I want to.
I guess easily accessible for all, which means it needs to be suited to them being able to make progress. Which means easy to beat, up to some level. So yes that is what would have to happen to be able to give everyone access...
It's not my design, but it does make sense. I'm not saying anyone should be happy or complacent about the decision, but everyone is really worked up for not having much of the reward/difficulty details. We have other gate blocks that function the same way, but this one is more directly stated and I think that is causing issues.
In the end this sets the bar more clearly, which many have issues with when requirements are released.
Kyno, normally your posts make sense and are fair comments.
On this occasion I think you are wrong and have struck a low blow to new/lower gp guilds.
But I agree with what you say about new content always stirs people up as proven by thousands of posts on this forum.
But not allowing lower gp guilds access is cruel and demoralising. They should be able to try the event even if the fail to complete it, by trying and failing that will truly give them something to strive for, because an 80 million gp guild may not necessarily have the right toons to complete it. Whereas if you can at least try it you know which toons to farm.
Sub note I’m in a 170 million guild so doesn’t affect me personally but think the 80 million minimum is bad for the community and game as a whole
If you're having to resort to the phrase "get that in your head", it is usually because your argument isn't powerful enough to sway people and not because others don't understand it.
If CG had said:
“This Tb is structured such that a guild with >80M GP will not be able to earn a single star (even with 50 completed CMs).”
Would you still be arguing that you want to take part in it (given that the alternative is to take part in Hoth Tb and earn rewards there)?
And the follow up question:
If you say “yes”, can you honestly say that you all wouldn’t be on here in a rage complaining that they had somehow screwed you out of rewards?
Are you asking us if we'd been happy if they'd deliberately rigged it?
Um, no ...
Not entirely sure why you would have thought we'd say yes ...
But, I'm sure they *have* "deliberately rigged" it.
Why? Because it's end-game content. It is simply not meant for guilds under a certain point. Be mad at that if you want, but it's not really different than any other game with end-game content.
Um ...
I'm really not following your logic.
The current state of affairs is that if you are in a guild of 80,000,000, you can participate. If you are in a guild of 79,999,999, you cannot.
Your question, if I understood it correctly, was would it be better if a guild with 80,000,000 can earn stars but a guild of 79,999,999 cannot?
I don't have a question, so no, you did not understand correctly.
Recap:
1. You said the 80M restrictions is dumb
2. Someone asked if you'd be mad if they let you do it only to find out that a 79.999M guild cannot mathematically get a single star
3. You said that would be "rigging" it and you would be mad at that
4. I pointed out that you're being silly, because end-game content is not meant for early-game players, so there is no reason to expect a 79M guild would be able to get any stars at all
Geo TB: Revitalizer Of Guilds
Just the latest in the long list.
Rancor: Destroyer of Guilds
CLS: Destroyer of Guilds
Tank: Destroyer of Guilds
Hoth LSTB: Destroyer of Guilds
Hoth DSTB: Destroyer of Guilds
STR: Destroyer of Guilds
For the record: not only does CG not care that your guild may or may not be destroyed, but they think breaking up guilds every now and again is healthy.