Upping stats like regen or tenacity is the laziest possible design philosophy for creating difficulty.
Look, they didn't think ahead when they blew the power level out of the universe with traya. They tried to fix it with revan by making the same mistake. They did the same again with malak, and guess what? They still have not learned and will do it again with the negotiator. As long as every new journey has to directly counter every existing mechanic in the game this is not going to change.
The fake difficulty of geo TB is an attempt to cater the content to the mistakes they made with power creep. The tragedy isn't how difficult it is. The tragedy is that they have already creeped right around it with g13. The cycle will continue until it is absolutely pointless for new people to join... and that threshold was very likely crossed with Malak
First, I'm with others who have said that I'm greatly relieved that they didn't construct "difficulty" by simply pre-loading TM and giving an overwhelming first wave of attacks that guarantees you'll lose a couple of toons before you can move. Staring at the screen while the computer wails on you with nothing for you to do yourself is not fun, and if it's not fun, it's bad game design. So let's applaud their general approach to constructing the challenges we're facing in this first GeoTB.
Next, I appreciate that this is supposed to be difficult. That's fine. But I think we should have more information than we have AND I am actually a touch concerned with p1 difficulty. I think that there should be significant difficulty scaling between p1 and p4. I still remember how they looked at p1 performance of Hoth DS TB and immediately concluded that p1 was too difficult, given what they were aiming at. I actually hope that's the case here. I have lots to build toward with Geos and Seps, but I found I couldn't make headway on the 4th encounter with g12 BH (only zBossk was maxed out though, Boba was g12+3, and the rest were toons with maybe one g12 piece). They aren't meta, but they're the tier immediately behind meta. It seems excessively difficult if they can't complete 4/4 on p1.
Now, don't get me wrong, I welcome a challenge, and I want to have to use my brain and not my auto button. I don't mind having to work for 4/4, but this seemed like the Defense and Tenacity stats were a bit too high. Force me to use g12 toons to get 4/4 in p1, that's fine. Force me to use g13 toons to go 4/4 in p1, not so much. It's supposed to be p1 for a reason.
This brings me to the "more information" part of the critique. Nothing in any of the kits suggest that they will have particularly high tenacity, nor does it suggest a tenacity boost against some things but not against others. Yet I had resistible Thermal Detonators land all the time, while ability block and stun seemed to never land at all on a significant number of toon-types. Maybe I just had bad RNG, and if so, that's fine. But if they have a tenacity boost (and a Defense boost) and especially if they have a Tenacity boost against some things (e.g. ability block, stun) and not others (e.g. thermal detonators).
Although I think the tenacity and Defense are set a bit too high for p1, I wouldn't have complained about it if there weren't already a thread discussing just that. But my real critique is that I want to be able to engage my brain. With more information I can start theory crafting good squads for different combat missions. If I don't have enough information to do proper theory crafting, it's all just about grinding more gear and throwing bigger, badder toons at the phase until you win.
I'd rather see more stats, and I definitely think any toon with a stat that changes vs. different attack types (or debut types) should have that plainly stated in the kit. Right now, I tend to think we're not getting some of the relevant information.
Upping stats like regen or tenacity is the laziest possible design philosophy for creating difficulty.
Look, they didn't think ahead when they blew the power level out of the universe with traya. They tried to fix it with revan by making the same mistake. They did the same again with malak, and guess what? They still have not learned and will do it again with the negotiator. As long as every new journey has to directly counter every existing mechanic in the game this is not going to change.
The fake difficulty of geo TB is an attempt to cater the content to the mistakes they made with power creep. The tragedy isn't how difficult it is. The tragedy is that they have already creeped right around it with g13. The cycle will continue until it is absolutely pointless for new people to join... and that threshold was very likely crossed with Malak
Can you please describe what you think a real difficulty increase would be. This has been asked of the OP too.
General difficulty increases are a good thing. If they get too specific, then it becomes less "develop around this" and more "you need X toon/team". I would rather have a level or design of difficulty that makes it very hard at my current level and easier as I develop my roster, than just have it be difficult until you get "this toon/team".
Upping stats like regen or tenacity is the laziest possible design philosophy for creating difficulty.
Look, they didn't think ahead when they blew the power level out of the universe with traya. They tried to fix it with revan by making the same mistake. They did the same again with malak, and guess what? They still have not learned and will do it again with the negotiator. As long as every new journey has to directly counter every existing mechanic in the game this is not going to change.
The fake difficulty of geo TB is an attempt to cater the content to the mistakes they made with power creep. The tragedy isn't how difficult it is. The tragedy is that they have already creeped right around it with g13. The cycle will continue until it is absolutely pointless for new people to join... and that threshold was very likely crossed with Malak
Can you please describe what you think a real difficulty increase would be. This has been asked of the OP too.
General difficulty increases are a good thing. If they get too specific, then it becomes less "develop around this" and more "you need X toon/team". I would rather have a level or design of difficulty that makes it very hard at my current level and easier as I develop my roster, than just have it be difficult until you get "this toon/team".
Honestly bro you would rather have whatever the devs make it and that's fine. You have a certain bias which is understandable and I don't blame you for it. I know for a fact if difficulty made it so that you required a certain character you would defend it too by saying how they have to incentivize players to farm more characters, and the alternative is bad because it requires less work and anyone's current roster is good etc. I understand where you're coming from and again, I don't blame you, this is your job.
But let's face it, it is a lazy way of doing it. I saw virtually no diversity in the characters, kill order basically didn't matter up until maybe wave 4. No cooldowns to track, just a matter of brute force. Whatever man, I just wanted to point that out. And honestly I'm tired of them keeping punishing characters who rely on debuffs like the wampa, NS, Vader, Sith, basically most DS toons.
Upping stats like regen or tenacity is the laziest possible design philosophy for creating difficulty.
Look, they didn't think ahead when they blew the power level out of the universe with traya. They tried to fix it with revan by making the same mistake. They did the same again with malak, and guess what? They still have not learned and will do it again with the negotiator. As long as every new journey has to directly counter every existing mechanic in the game this is not going to change.
The fake difficulty of geo TB is an attempt to cater the content to the mistakes they made with power creep. The tragedy isn't how difficult it is. The tragedy is that they have already creeped right around it with g13. The cycle will continue until it is absolutely pointless for new people to join... and that threshold was very likely crossed with Malak
Can you please describe what you think a real difficulty increase would be. This has been asked of the OP too.
General difficulty increases are a good thing. If they get too specific, then it becomes less "develop around this" and more "you need X toon/team". I would rather have a level or design of difficulty that makes it very hard at my current level and easier as I develop my roster, than just have it be difficult until you get "this toon/team".
I agree completely. That way is so much better than when they require a specific toon (although that's occasionally appropriate), or worse yet require a toon AND put a min GP on that toon.
Upping stats like regen or tenacity is the laziest possible design philosophy for creating difficulty.
Look, they didn't think ahead when they blew the power level out of the universe with traya. They tried to fix it with revan by making the same mistake. They did the same again with malak, and guess what? They still have not learned and will do it again with the negotiator. As long as every new journey has to directly counter every existing mechanic in the game this is not going to change.
The fake difficulty of geo TB is an attempt to cater the content to the mistakes they made with power creep. The tragedy isn't how difficult it is. The tragedy is that they have already creeped right around it with g13. The cycle will continue until it is absolutely pointless for new people to join... and that threshold was very likely crossed with Malak
Can you please describe what you think a real difficulty increase would be. This has been asked of the OP too.
General difficulty increases are a good thing. If they get too specific, then it becomes less "develop around this" and more "you need X toon/team". I would rather have a level or design of difficulty that makes it very hard at my current level and easier as I develop my roster, than just have it be difficult until you get "this toon/team".
I agree completely. That way is so much better than when they require a specific toon (although that's occasionally appropriate), or worse yet require a toon AND put a min GP on that toon.
Didn't they already do that with the special mission?
Upping stats like regen or tenacity is the laziest possible design philosophy for creating difficulty.
Look, they didn't think ahead when they blew the power level out of the universe with traya. They tried to fix it with revan by making the same mistake. They did the same again with malak, and guess what? They still have not learned and will do it again with the negotiator. As long as every new journey has to directly counter every existing mechanic in the game this is not going to change.
The fake difficulty of geo TB is an attempt to cater the content to the mistakes they made with power creep. The tragedy isn't how difficult it is. The tragedy is that they have already creeped right around it with g13. The cycle will continue until it is absolutely pointless for new people to join... and that threshold was very likely crossed with Malak
Can you please describe what you think a real difficulty increase would be. This has been asked of the OP too.
General difficulty increases are a good thing. If they get too specific, then it becomes less "develop around this" and more "you need X toon/team". I would rather have a level or design of difficulty that makes it very hard at my current level and easier as I develop my roster, than just have it be difficult until you get "this toon/team".
I agree completely. That way is so much better than when they require a specific toon (although that's occasionally appropriate), or worse yet require a toon AND put a min GP on that toon.
Didn't they already do that with the special mission?
Upping stats like regen or tenacity is the laziest possible design philosophy for creating difficulty.
Look, they didn't think ahead when they blew the power level out of the universe with traya. They tried to fix it with revan by making the same mistake. They did the same again with malak, and guess what? They still have not learned and will do it again with the negotiator. As long as every new journey has to directly counter every existing mechanic in the game this is not going to change.
The fake difficulty of geo TB is an attempt to cater the content to the mistakes they made with power creep. The tragedy isn't how difficult it is. The tragedy is that they have already creeped right around it with g13. The cycle will continue until it is absolutely pointless for new people to join... and that threshold was very likely crossed with Malak
Can you please describe what you think a real difficulty increase would be. This has been asked of the OP too.
General difficulty increases are a good thing. If they get too specific, then it becomes less "develop around this" and more "you need X toon/team". I would rather have a level or design of difficulty that makes it very hard at my current level and easier as I develop my roster, than just have it be difficult until you get "this toon/team".
I agree completely. That way is so much better than when they require a specific toon (although that's occasionally appropriate), or worse yet require a toon AND put a min GP on that toon.
Didn't they already do that with the special mission?
Upping stats like regen or tenacity is the laziest possible design philosophy for creating difficulty.
Look, they didn't think ahead when they blew the power level out of the universe with traya. They tried to fix it with revan by making the same mistake. They did the same again with malak, and guess what? They still have not learned and will do it again with the negotiator. As long as every new journey has to directly counter every existing mechanic in the game this is not going to change.
The fake difficulty of geo TB is an attempt to cater the content to the mistakes they made with power creep. The tragedy isn't how difficult it is. The tragedy is that they have already creeped right around it with g13. The cycle will continue until it is absolutely pointless for new people to join... and that threshold was very likely crossed with Malak
Can you please describe what you think a real difficulty increase would be. This has been asked of the OP too.
General difficulty increases are a good thing. If they get too specific, then it becomes less "develop around this" and more "you need X toon/team". I would rather have a level or design of difficulty that makes it very hard at my current level and easier as I develop my roster, than just have it be difficult until you get "this toon/team".
I agree completely. That way is so much better than when they require a specific toon (although that's occasionally appropriate), or worse yet require a toon AND put a min GP on that toon.
Didn't they already do that with the special mission?
Upping stats like regen or tenacity is the laziest possible design philosophy for creating difficulty.
Look, they didn't think ahead when they blew the power level out of the universe with traya. They tried to fix it with revan by making the same mistake. They did the same again with malak, and guess what? They still have not learned and will do it again with the negotiator. As long as every new journey has to directly counter every existing mechanic in the game this is not going to change.
The fake difficulty of geo TB is an attempt to cater the content to the mistakes they made with power creep. The tragedy isn't how difficult it is. The tragedy is that they have already creeped right around it with g13. The cycle will continue until it is absolutely pointless for new people to join... and that threshold was very likely crossed with Malak
Can you please describe what you think a real difficulty increase would be. This has been asked of the OP too.
General difficulty increases are a good thing. If they get too specific, then it becomes less "develop around this" and more "you need X toon/team". I would rather have a level or design of difficulty that makes it very hard at my current level and easier as I develop my roster, than just have it be difficult until you get "this toon/team".
Honestly bro you would rather have whatever the devs make it and that's fine. You have a certain bias which is understandable and I don't blame you for it. I know for a fact if difficulty made it so that you required a certain character you would defend it too by saying how they have to incentivize players to farm more characters, and the alternative is bad because it requires less work and anyone's current roster is good etc. I understand where you're coming from and again, I don't blame you, this is your job.
But let's face it, it is a lazy way of doing it. I saw virtually no diversity in the characters, kill order basically didn't matter up until maybe wave 4. No cooldowns to track, just a matter of brute force. Whatever man, I just wanted to point that out. And honestly I'm tired of them keeping punishing characters who rely on debuffs like the wampa, NS, Vader, Sith, basically most DS toons.
Maybe this wasn't clear:
What are you suggesting?
Saying it's broken and should be better is not the same as actually producing ideas. You say there is no strategy and this is lazy just brute force.... that is every raid that we have for the first little bit. In the end there is always a team that develops or a toon that makes a team work better. It always plays out that we end up with one thing that does better and makes things fall into place.
I'm not doing a job, I'm here because (unlike you) I love this game. I do this in my free time, because I want to be here and enjoy this and the game, you should try that some time. I have spent money here and still can say without a wavering thought, it's just a game and I am here to have fun.
Edit to add:
You are here to bash an entire game mode based on your first experience with 1/4 of it. If anyone seems biased here that would be you.
Upping stats like regen or tenacity is the laziest possible design philosophy for creating difficulty.
Look, they didn't think ahead when they blew the power level out of the universe with traya. They tried to fix it with revan by making the same mistake. They did the same again with malak, and guess what? They still have not learned and will do it again with the negotiator. As long as every new journey has to directly counter every existing mechanic in the game this is not going to change.
The fake difficulty of geo TB is an attempt to cater the content to the mistakes they made with power creep. The tragedy isn't how difficult it is. The tragedy is that they have already creeped right around it with g13. The cycle will continue until it is absolutely pointless for new people to join... and that threshold was very likely crossed with Malak
Can you please describe what you think a real difficulty increase would be. This has been asked of the OP too.
General difficulty increases are a good thing. If they get too specific, then it becomes less "develop around this" and more "you need X toon/team". I would rather have a level or design of difficulty that makes it very hard at my current level and easier as I develop my roster, than just have it be difficult until you get "this toon/team".
Honestly bro you would rather have whatever the devs make it and that's fine. You have a certain bias which is understandable and I don't blame you for it. I know for a fact if difficulty made it so that you required a certain character you would defend it too by saying how they have to incentivize players to farm more characters, and the alternative is bad because it requires less work and anyone's current roster is good etc. I understand where you're coming from and again, I don't blame you, this is your job.
But let's face it, it is a lazy way of doing it. I saw virtually no diversity in the characters, kill order basically didn't matter up until maybe wave 4. No cooldowns to track, just a matter of brute force. Whatever man, I just wanted to point that out. And honestly I'm tired of them keeping punishing characters who rely on debuffs like the wampa, NS, Vader, Sith, basically most DS toons.
Okay but then what is a good way to increase difficulty?
Upping stats like regen or tenacity is the laziest possible design philosophy for creating difficulty.
Look, they didn't think ahead when they blew the power level out of the universe with traya. They tried to fix it with revan by making the same mistake. They did the same again with malak, and guess what? They still have not learned and will do it again with the negotiator. As long as every new journey has to directly counter every existing mechanic in the game this is not going to change.
The fake difficulty of geo TB is an attempt to cater the content to the mistakes they made with power creep. The tragedy isn't how difficult it is. The tragedy is that they have already creeped right around it with g13. The cycle will continue until it is absolutely pointless for new people to join... and that threshold was very likely crossed with Malak
Can you please describe what you think a real difficulty increase would be. This has been asked of the OP too.
General difficulty increases are a good thing. If they get too specific, then it becomes less "develop around this" and more "you need X toon/team". I would rather have a level or design of difficulty that makes it very hard at my current level and easier as I develop my roster, than just have it be difficult until you get "this toon/team".
Honestly bro you would rather have whatever the devs make it and that's fine. You have a certain bias which is understandable and I don't blame you for it. I know for a fact if difficulty made it so that you required a certain character you would defend it too by saying how they have to incentivize players to farm more characters, and the alternative is bad because it requires less work and anyone's current roster is good etc. I understand where you're coming from and again, I don't blame you, this is your job.
But let's face it, it is a lazy way of doing it. I saw virtually no diversity in the characters, kill order basically didn't matter up until maybe wave 4. No cooldowns to track, just a matter of brute force. Whatever man, I just wanted to point that out. And honestly I'm tired of them keeping punishing characters who rely on debuffs like the wampa, NS, Vader, Sith, basically most DS toons.
Maybe this wasn't clear:
What are you suggesting?
Saying it's broken and should be better is not the same as actually producing ideas. You say there is no strategy and this is lazy just brute force.... that is every raid that we have for the first little bit. In the end there is always a team that develops or a toon that makes a team work better. It always plays out that we end up with one thing that fors better and makes things fall into place.
I'm not doing a job, I'm here because (unlike you) I love this game. I do this in my free time, because I want to be here and enjoy this and the game, you should try that some time. I have spent money here and still can say without a wavering thought, it's just a game and I am here to have fun.
I think this was a missed opportunity for something greater. All we got is Hoth on steroids with alot more tenacity. I was expecting more from the TB, like actual mechanics that matter. Specific kill order, required dispellers, required cleansers for certain debuffs. Perhaps mini boss flights where the whole guild contributes like a small raid. Added abilities that have to be well timed and used in a specific manner.
Upping stats like regen or tenacity is the laziest possible design philosophy for creating difficulty.
Look, they didn't think ahead when they blew the power level out of the universe with traya. They tried to fix it with revan by making the same mistake. They did the same again with malak, and guess what? They still have not learned and will do it again with the negotiator. As long as every new journey has to directly counter every existing mechanic in the game this is not going to change.
The fake difficulty of geo TB is an attempt to cater the content to the mistakes they made with power creep. The tragedy isn't how difficult it is. The tragedy is that they have already creeped right around it with g13. The cycle will continue until it is absolutely pointless for new people to join... and that threshold was very likely crossed with Malak
Can you please describe what you think a real difficulty increase would be. This has been asked of the OP too.
General difficulty increases are a good thing. If they get too specific, then it becomes less "develop around this" and more "you need X toon/team". I would rather have a level or design of difficulty that makes it very hard at my current level and easier as I develop my roster, than just have it be difficult until you get "this toon/team".
Honestly bro you would rather have whatever the devs make it and that's fine. You have a certain bias which is understandable and I don't blame you for it. I know for a fact if difficulty made it so that you required a certain character you would defend it too by saying how they have to incentivize players to farm more characters, and the alternative is bad because it requires less work and anyone's current roster is good etc. I understand where you're coming from and again, I don't blame you, this is your job.
But let's face it, it is a lazy way of doing it. I saw virtually no diversity in the characters, kill order basically didn't matter up until maybe wave 4. No cooldowns to track, just a matter of brute force. Whatever man, I just wanted to point that out. And honestly I'm tired of them keeping punishing characters who rely on debuffs like the wampa, NS, Vader, Sith, basically most DS toons.
Maybe this wasn't clear:
What are you suggesting?
Saying it's broken and should be better is not the same as actually producing ideas. You say there is no strategy and this is lazy just brute force.... that is every raid that we have for the first little bit. In the end there is always a team that develops or a toon that makes a team work better. It always plays out that we end up with one thing that fors better and makes things fall into place.
I'm not doing a job, I'm here because (unlike you) I love this game. I do this in my free time, because I want to be here and enjoy this and the game, you should try that some time. I have spent money here and still can say without a wavering thought, it's just a game and I am here to have fun.
I think this was a missed opportunity for something greater. All we got is Hoth on steroids with alot more tenacity. I was expecting more from the TB, like actual mechanics that matter. Specific kill order, required dispellers, required cleansers for certain debuffs. Perhaps mini boss flights where the whole guild contributes like a small raid. Added abilities that have to be well timed and used in a specific manner.
I disagree with the OP strongly here. I like that it is so challenging even on day 1 and i like the variation in the Jedi that show up. I can tell CG put a lot of care into developing this and so far it doesn't feel rushed or buggy. I have seen a lot of people complaining about it being too difficult, but i like that it is tough and much more 'future proof' than hoth tb.
I really think they did am excellent job with this.
Upping stats like regen or tenacity is the laziest possible design philosophy for creating difficulty.
Look, they didn't think ahead when they blew the power level out of the universe with traya. They tried to fix it with revan by making the same mistake. They did the same again with malak, and guess what? They still have not learned and will do it again with the negotiator. As long as every new journey has to directly counter every existing mechanic in the game this is not going to change.
The fake difficulty of geo TB is an attempt to cater the content to the mistakes they made with power creep. The tragedy isn't how difficult it is. The tragedy is that they have already creeped right around it with g13. The cycle will continue until it is absolutely pointless for new people to join... and that threshold was very likely crossed with Malak
Can you please describe what you think a real difficulty increase would be. This has been asked of the OP too.
General difficulty increases are a good thing. If they get too specific, then it becomes less "develop around this" and more "you need X toon/team". I would rather have a level or design of difficulty that makes it very hard at my current level and easier as I develop my roster, than just have it be difficult until you get "this toon/team".
Honestly bro you would rather have whatever the devs make it and that's fine. You have a certain bias which is understandable and I don't blame you for it. I know for a fact if difficulty made it so that you required a certain character you would defend it too by saying how they have to incentivize players to farm more characters, and the alternative is bad because it requires less work and anyone's current roster is good etc. I understand where you're coming from and again, I don't blame you, this is your job.
But let's face it, it is a lazy way of doing it. I saw virtually no diversity in the characters, kill order basically didn't matter up until maybe wave 4. No cooldowns to track, just a matter of brute force. Whatever man, I just wanted to point that out. And honestly I'm tired of them keeping punishing characters who rely on debuffs like the wampa, NS, Vader, Sith, basically most DS toons.
Maybe this wasn't clear:
What are you suggesting?
Saying it's broken and should be better is not the same as actually producing ideas. You say there is no strategy and this is lazy just brute force.... that is every raid that we have for the first little bit. In the end there is always a team that develops or a toon that makes a team work better. It always plays out that we end up with one thing that fors better and makes things fall into place.
I'm not doing a job, I'm here because (unlike you) I love this game. I do this in my free time, because I want to be here and enjoy this and the game, you should try that some time. I have spent money here and still can say without a wavering thought, it's just a game and I am here to have fun.
I think this was a missed opportunity for something greater. All we got is Hoth on steroids with alot more tenacity. I was expecting more from the TB, like actual mechanics that matter. Specific kill order, required dispellers, required cleansers for certain debuffs. Perhaps mini boss flights where the whole guild contributes like a small raid. Added abilities that have to be well timed and used in a specific manner.
So now you want required toons?
I don’t think that’s what he’s saying. He wants optimal strategies. Something that isn’t just put your best squad in and blast away. It’s only phase 1, but I didn’t see much room for strategy either, other than the need for mod adjustments.
Upping stats like regen or tenacity is the laziest possible design philosophy for creating difficulty.
Look, they didn't think ahead when they blew the power level out of the universe with traya. They tried to fix it with revan by making the same mistake. They did the same again with malak, and guess what? They still have not learned and will do it again with the negotiator. As long as every new journey has to directly counter every existing mechanic in the game this is not going to change.
The fake difficulty of geo TB is an attempt to cater the content to the mistakes they made with power creep. The tragedy isn't how difficult it is. The tragedy is that they have already creeped right around it with g13. The cycle will continue until it is absolutely pointless for new people to join... and that threshold was very likely crossed with Malak
Can you please describe what you think a real difficulty increase would be. This has been asked of the OP too.
General difficulty increases are a good thing. If they get too specific, then it becomes less "develop around this" and more "you need X toon/team". I would rather have a level or design of difficulty that makes it very hard at my current level and easier as I develop my roster, than just have it be difficult until you get "this toon/team".
Honestly bro you would rather have whatever the devs make it and that's fine. You have a certain bias which is understandable and I don't blame you for it. I know for a fact if difficulty made it so that you required a certain character you would defend it too by saying how they have to incentivize players to farm more characters, and the alternative is bad because it requires less work and anyone's current roster is good etc. I understand where you're coming from and again, I don't blame you, this is your job.
But let's face it, it is a lazy way of doing it. I saw virtually no diversity in the characters, kill order basically didn't matter up until maybe wave 4. No cooldowns to track, just a matter of brute force. Whatever man, I just wanted to point that out. And honestly I'm tired of them keeping punishing characters who rely on debuffs like the wampa, NS, Vader, Sith, basically most DS toons.
Maybe this wasn't clear:
What are you suggesting?
Saying it's broken and should be better is not the same as actually producing ideas. You say there is no strategy and this is lazy just brute force.... that is every raid that we have for the first little bit. In the end there is always a team that develops or a toon that makes a team work better. It always plays out that we end up with one thing that fors better and makes things fall into place.
I'm not doing a job, I'm here because (unlike you) I love this game. I do this in my free time, because I want to be here and enjoy this and the game, you should try that some time. I have spent money here and still can say without a wavering thought, it's just a game and I am here to have fun.
I think this was a missed opportunity for something greater. All we got is Hoth on steroids with alot more tenacity. I was expecting more from the TB, like actual mechanics that matter. Specific kill order, required dispellers, required cleansers for certain debuffs. Perhaps mini boss flights where the whole guild contributes like a small raid. Added abilities that have to be well timed and used in a specific manner.
You got this before I added to this post,
How do you know there is no mini boss?
How can you judge this whole event with only experiencing 1/4 of it, and only having this be the first time...
You seem biased to this not being good enough, without even giving it a shot.....
The things you are mentioning here seems like you wanted to grind through several chewie style legendary battles, is that what you are going for? You want a lot of needing X toon /team for this phase Y battle.... if so, you realize this wouldnt be end game, it would just be good enough until those toons/teams are built. There is a difference and I hope you can understand that.
Upping stats like regen or tenacity is the laziest possible design philosophy for creating difficulty.
Look, they didn't think ahead when they blew the power level out of the universe with traya. They tried to fix it with revan by making the same mistake. They did the same again with malak, and guess what? They still have not learned and will do it again with the negotiator. As long as every new journey has to directly counter every existing mechanic in the game this is not going to change.
The fake difficulty of geo TB is an attempt to cater the content to the mistakes they made with power creep. The tragedy isn't how difficult it is. The tragedy is that they have already creeped right around it with g13. The cycle will continue until it is absolutely pointless for new people to join... and that threshold was very likely crossed with Malak
Can you please describe what you think a real difficulty increase would be. This has been asked of the OP too.
General difficulty increases are a good thing. If they get too specific, then it becomes less "develop around this" and more "you need X toon/team". I would rather have a level or design of difficulty that makes it very hard at my current level and easier as I develop my roster, than just have it be difficult until you get "this toon/team".
Honestly bro you would rather have whatever the devs make it and that's fine. You have a certain bias which is understandable and I don't blame you for it. I know for a fact if difficulty made it so that you required a certain character you would defend it too by saying how they have to incentivize players to farm more characters, and the alternative is bad because it requires less work and anyone's current roster is good etc. I understand where you're coming from and again, I don't blame you, this is your job.
But let's face it, it is a lazy way of doing it. I saw virtually no diversity in the characters, kill order basically didn't matter up until maybe wave 4. No cooldowns to track, just a matter of brute force. Whatever man, I just wanted to point that out. And honestly I'm tired of them keeping punishing characters who rely on debuffs like the wampa, NS, Vader, Sith, basically most DS toons.
Maybe this wasn't clear:
What are you suggesting?
Saying it's broken and should be better is not the same as actually producing ideas. You say there is no strategy and this is lazy just brute force.... that is every raid that we have for the first little bit. In the end there is always a team that develops or a toon that makes a team work better. It always plays out that we end up with one thing that fors better and makes things fall into place.
I'm not doing a job, I'm here because (unlike you) I love this game. I do this in my free time, because I want to be here and enjoy this and the game, you should try that some time. I have spent money here and still can say without a wavering thought, it's just a game and I am here to have fun.
I think this was a missed opportunity for something greater. All we got is Hoth on steroids with alot more tenacity. I was expecting more from the TB, like actual mechanics that matter. Specific kill order, required dispellers, required cleansers for certain debuffs. Perhaps mini boss flights where the whole guild contributes like a small raid. Added abilities that have to be well timed and used in a specific manner.
So now you want required toons?
I don’t think that’s what he’s saying. He wants optimal strategies. Something that isn’t just put your best squad in and blast away. It’s only phase 1, but I didn’t see much room for strategy either, other than the need for mod adjustments.
Then what does "required dispellers, required cleansers" mean?
It's called end game content for a reason. It was also explained to be more difficult than anything we had seen before.
For sure... but in fact when a game add new end game, they make the old game content more easy. That help new player to join the old player...CG add new content and never make easy the old content.
One of the thing who made the game more easy in the near past was the 8 attempts... and it was deleted...
There is no point in this discussion, ever thought that this TB was designed for G13 upwards?
As we all know G13 will give a big boost to the characters, then also those battles will be different to play.
Swiss Garde Officer, drop me a message if you're interested joining
Can you please describe what you think a real difficulty increase would be. This has been asked of the OP too.
The answer is "being creative with challenges". Let me give some ideas:
1. Unkillable turrets/heavy units which supports enemy infantry
2. See before plus some special action required for putting those units out of battle (like kill specific heavy infantry enemy unit to took grenade launcher from him).
3. Battlefield obstacles like walls which must be destroyed before units can be hit
4. "Swarm"-type reinforcements which can be easily wiped by AOE but still require attention and distract from main goal.
5. Turn limits for battles which could come in different ways (win before enemy get overwhelming reinforcements, save someone before enemy kills him, etc).
6. Entrenched units which can be attacked only by grenades or melee weapons
7. Unique requirements for fights instead of "kill them all" - like enemy is defending bridge which we must destroy
8. and so on....
This is actual game design instead of just bumping enemy stats. And we sometimes see this in raids or one-time events.
But, of course, I must admit that bumping defense/tenacity is WAY better than bumping and pre-loading speed - there is nothing more annoying than "battles" where you just sit and look how enemy wipes your squad and you can't even press a single button.
So I am hoping one day you will find something you like in this game so you can have fun, like the rest of us. From the way you post, you seem to be truly exercising the definition of insanity.
It's called end game content for a reason. It was also explained to be more difficult than anything we had seen before.
As for no strategy, dont worry someone else will figure it out for you and you can follow them.
I had no problem with my Palp squad, debuffs landed fairly consistently and I cleared the whole battle pretty easily. In fact, I was more successful than with my DR/Malak squad, but that might be because I sacrificed Nasty Basty for platoons.
End game and "difficult" is one thing. In one of the missions (we had full platoons loaded) my G12 Wampa was at half health in round 3 and Bariss Offee ONE SHOT him. The same bariss offee that crits for us at about 3k damage.
Same as so many other things they do. "We're making this more competitive with the new matchmaking!" CG's matchmaking in GAC? Put me with 7 other players that won't even get through my front wall.
They basically took HK'47s kit and changed the name to "clone sharpshooter" except the event version hits any character for 500K damage. (One shot my HK, then one shot my F'n Bastila immediately, so he got an extra turn for defeating one character?) My HK47 hit a JEDI in a 2nd round with his special kill jedi ability for about 15K damage. So yeah, good deal. My apologies for not selling my house to make him G13 first.
Reading and understanding are two different things. Did you read and understand your platoon deployments and bonuses? U might have realised the platoon bonuses dont affect phase 1.
He wants optimal strategies. Something that isn’t just put your best squad in and blast away. It’s only phase 1, but I didn’t see much room for strategy either, other than the need for mod adjustments.
@Bulldog1205
Care to elaborate on that? Mostly what you mean by "strategy". Are we talking team selection and kill order for example, because it seems to me that both definately make a difference.
Heck, people are already complaining about the random combat mission bosses because the different bosses require different strategies.
Putting in your best squad and just blasting away seems very unbulldog1205y, what's up with that? haha
He wants optimal strategies. Something that isn’t just put your best squad in and blast away. It’s only phase 1, but I didn’t see much room for strategy either, other than the need for mod adjustments.
@Bulldog1205
Care to elaborate on that? Mostly what you mean by "strategy". Are we talking team selection and kill order for example, because it seems to me that both definately make a difference.
Heck, people are already complaining about the random combat mission bosses because the different bosses require different strategies.
Putting in your best squad and just blasting away seems very unbulldog1205y, what's up with that? haha
But that randomness is kind of what I mean though. If I’m understanding people right it’s like Hoth TB in that the enemies aren’t the same every time. Others are reporting getting bosses in different areas than I did. So that means you can’t properly prepare by bringing in a specific team to counter your opponents. You kind of just have to go with your best team.
Yet another example of why I say OP needs to find a new game. For this thread, I recommend trying Chutes and Ladders.
I'd be shocked to ever see a thread where CG_TVF doesn't make a comment. One day I might find one.
If you do, point it out....I'm sure he'd weigh in.
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
He wants optimal strategies. Something that isn’t just put your best squad in and blast away. It’s only phase 1, but I didn’t see much room for strategy either, other than the need for mod adjustments.
@Bulldog1205
Care to elaborate on that? Mostly what you mean by "strategy". Are we talking team selection and kill order for example, because it seems to me that both definately make a difference.
Heck, people are already complaining about the random combat mission bosses because the different bosses require different strategies.
Putting in your best squad and just blasting away seems very unbulldog1205y, what's up with that? haha
But that randomness is kind of what I mean though. If I’m understanding people right it’s like Hoth TB in that the enemies aren’t the same every time. Others are reporting getting bosses in different areas than I did. So that means you can’t properly prepare by bringing in a specific team to counter your opponents. You kind of just have to go with your best team.
It's almost like you're in a combat zone and you don't know what or who the enemy is going to attack you with. Then, you actually have to hope that you are diverse and balanced enough to adjust on the fly with the team you sent in to do the job.
Seriously, while I get the "tenacity is 1000%?!?!" complaint to a point, I am enjoying the new TB.
I also realize it will most definitely get considerably more difficult as we move through the phases.
I'm not afraid of this new TB yet...but...
In game name: Lucas Gregory FORMER PLAYER - - - -"Whale blah grump poooop." - Ouchie
In game guild: TNR Uprising I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
Replies
Upping stats like regen or tenacity is the laziest possible design philosophy for creating difficulty.
Look, they didn't think ahead when they blew the power level out of the universe with traya. They tried to fix it with revan by making the same mistake. They did the same again with malak, and guess what? They still have not learned and will do it again with the negotiator. As long as every new journey has to directly counter every existing mechanic in the game this is not going to change.
The fake difficulty of geo TB is an attempt to cater the content to the mistakes they made with power creep. The tragedy isn't how difficult it is. The tragedy is that they have already creeped right around it with g13. The cycle will continue until it is absolutely pointless for new people to join... and that threshold was very likely crossed with Malak
Next, I appreciate that this is supposed to be difficult. That's fine. But I think we should have more information than we have AND I am actually a touch concerned with p1 difficulty. I think that there should be significant difficulty scaling between p1 and p4. I still remember how they looked at p1 performance of Hoth DS TB and immediately concluded that p1 was too difficult, given what they were aiming at. I actually hope that's the case here. I have lots to build toward with Geos and Seps, but I found I couldn't make headway on the 4th encounter with g12 BH (only zBossk was maxed out though, Boba was g12+3, and the rest were toons with maybe one g12 piece). They aren't meta, but they're the tier immediately behind meta. It seems excessively difficult if they can't complete 4/4 on p1.
Now, don't get me wrong, I welcome a challenge, and I want to have to use my brain and not my auto button. I don't mind having to work for 4/4, but this seemed like the Defense and Tenacity stats were a bit too high. Force me to use g12 toons to get 4/4 in p1, that's fine. Force me to use g13 toons to go 4/4 in p1, not so much. It's supposed to be p1 for a reason.
This brings me to the "more information" part of the critique. Nothing in any of the kits suggest that they will have particularly high tenacity, nor does it suggest a tenacity boost against some things but not against others. Yet I had resistible Thermal Detonators land all the time, while ability block and stun seemed to never land at all on a significant number of toon-types. Maybe I just had bad RNG, and if so, that's fine. But if they have a tenacity boost (and a Defense boost) and especially if they have a Tenacity boost against some things (e.g. ability block, stun) and not others (e.g. thermal detonators).
Although I think the tenacity and Defense are set a bit too high for p1, I wouldn't have complained about it if there weren't already a thread discussing just that. But my real critique is that I want to be able to engage my brain. With more information I can start theory crafting good squads for different combat missions. If I don't have enough information to do proper theory crafting, it's all just about grinding more gear and throwing bigger, badder toons at the phase until you win.
I'd rather see more stats, and I definitely think any toon with a stat that changes vs. different attack types (or debut types) should have that plainly stated in the kit. Right now, I tend to think we're not getting some of the relevant information.
Can you please describe what you think a real difficulty increase would be. This has been asked of the OP too.
General difficulty increases are a good thing. If they get too specific, then it becomes less "develop around this" and more "you need X toon/team". I would rather have a level or design of difficulty that makes it very hard at my current level and easier as I develop my roster, than just have it be difficult until you get "this toon/team".
Honestly bro you would rather have whatever the devs make it and that's fine. You have a certain bias which is understandable and I don't blame you for it. I know for a fact if difficulty made it so that you required a certain character you would defend it too by saying how they have to incentivize players to farm more characters, and the alternative is bad because it requires less work and anyone's current roster is good etc. I understand where you're coming from and again, I don't blame you, this is your job.
But let's face it, it is a lazy way of doing it. I saw virtually no diversity in the characters, kill order basically didn't matter up until maybe wave 4. No cooldowns to track, just a matter of brute force. Whatever man, I just wanted to point that out. And honestly I'm tired of them keeping punishing characters who rely on debuffs like the wampa, NS, Vader, Sith, basically most DS toons.
I agree completely. That way is so much better than when they require a specific toon (although that's occasionally appropriate), or worse yet require a toon AND put a min GP on that toon.
Didn't they already do that with the special mission?
Yup
Lol I didn't think you were sarcastic
You're making me question my thinking now lmao
Maybe this wasn't clear:
What are you suggesting?
Saying it's broken and should be better is not the same as actually producing ideas. You say there is no strategy and this is lazy just brute force.... that is every raid that we have for the first little bit. In the end there is always a team that develops or a toon that makes a team work better. It always plays out that we end up with one thing that does better and makes things fall into place.
I'm not doing a job, I'm here because (unlike you) I love this game. I do this in my free time, because I want to be here and enjoy this and the game, you should try that some time. I have spent money here and still can say without a wavering thought, it's just a game and I am here to have fun.
Edit to add:
You are here to bash an entire game mode based on your first experience with 1/4 of it. If anyone seems biased here that would be you.
Okay but then what is a good way to increase difficulty?
I think this was a missed opportunity for something greater. All we got is Hoth on steroids with alot more tenacity. I was expecting more from the TB, like actual mechanics that matter. Specific kill order, required dispellers, required cleansers for certain debuffs. Perhaps mini boss flights where the whole guild contributes like a small raid. Added abilities that have to be well timed and used in a specific manner.
So now you want required toons?
I really think they did am excellent job with this.
I don’t think that’s what he’s saying. He wants optimal strategies. Something that isn’t just put your best squad in and blast away. It’s only phase 1, but I didn’t see much room for strategy either, other than the need for mod adjustments.
You got this before I added to this post,
How do you know there is no mini boss?
How can you judge this whole event with only experiencing 1/4 of it, and only having this be the first time...
You seem biased to this not being good enough, without even giving it a shot.....
The things you are mentioning here seems like you wanted to grind through several chewie style legendary battles, is that what you are going for? You want a lot of needing X toon /team for this phase Y battle.... if so, you realize this wouldnt be end game, it would just be good enough until those toons/teams are built. There is a difference and I hope you can understand that.
Then what does "required dispellers, required cleansers" mean?
For sure... but in fact when a game add new end game, they make the old game content more easy. That help new player to join the old player...CG add new content and never make easy the old content.
One of the thing who made the game more easy in the near past was the 8 attempts... and it was deleted...
As we all know G13 will give a big boost to the characters, then also those battles will be different to play.
The answer is "being creative with challenges". Let me give some ideas:
1. Unkillable turrets/heavy units which supports enemy infantry
2. See before plus some special action required for putting those units out of battle (like kill specific heavy infantry enemy unit to took grenade launcher from him).
3. Battlefield obstacles like walls which must be destroyed before units can be hit
4. "Swarm"-type reinforcements which can be easily wiped by AOE but still require attention and distract from main goal.
5. Turn limits for battles which could come in different ways (win before enemy get overwhelming reinforcements, save someone before enemy kills him, etc).
6. Entrenched units which can be attacked only by grenades or melee weapons
7. Unique requirements for fights instead of "kill them all" - like enemy is defending bridge which we must destroy
8. and so on....
This is actual game design instead of just bumping enemy stats. And we sometimes see this in raids or one-time events.
But, of course, I must admit that bumping defense/tenacity is WAY better than bumping and pre-loading speed - there is nothing more annoying than "battles" where you just sit and look how enemy wipes your squad and you can't even press a single button.
He trolls himself into misery.
Reading and understanding are two different things. Did you read and understand your platoon deployments and bonuses? U might have realised the platoon bonuses dont affect phase 1.
Care to elaborate on that? Mostly what you mean by "strategy". Are we talking team selection and kill order for example, because it seems to me that both definately make a difference.
Heck, people are already complaining about the random combat mission bosses because the different bosses require different strategies.
Putting in your best squad and just blasting away seems very unbulldog1205y, what's up with that? haha
But that randomness is kind of what I mean though. If I’m understanding people right it’s like Hoth TB in that the enemies aren’t the same every time. Others are reporting getting bosses in different areas than I did. So that means you can’t properly prepare by bringing in a specific team to counter your opponents. You kind of just have to go with your best team.
If you do, point it out....I'm sure he'd weigh in.
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*
It's almost like you're in a combat zone and you don't know what or who the enemy is going to attack you with. Then, you actually have to hope that you are diverse and balanced enough to adjust on the fly with the team you sent in to do the job.
Seriously, while I get the "tenacity is 1000%?!?!" complaint to a point, I am enjoying the new TB.
I also realize it will most definitely get considerably more difficult as we move through the phases.
I'm not afraid of this new TB yet...but...
In game guild: TNR Uprising
I beat the REAL T7 Yoda (not the nerfed one) and did so before mods were there to help
*This space left intentionally blank*