So with all the news about relic 8 and the new relic materials from the new pit raid what can this new material be uses for? I did some research but saw that it's not apparently used to reach relic 8 so is there a new ability or something that a toon receives after reaching relic 8 like relic abilities? Or am I misunderstanding something? Because if the new material isn't used to reach relic 8 then it must be used for something
Its used to get to relic 8. They gave 2 new pieces of relic mat. You can craft one now... the other is exclusive to raid rewards.
You need 20 of each new material to get from r7 to r8
Best part of this raid. Is the at least 4 guilds that have cheated and completed the raid. Nothing like seeing a screenshot of someone soloing the raid on Reddit and knowing CG won’t do anything about the cheaters.
"0 tollerance" shares a similar definition to "flat" i guess.
We just ran this for the first time - granted we have only had about 15 people tag in so far but it’s an exercise in futility. I’m glad the reward seem lackluster so we won’t feel bad not even really bothering to run the thing until we get 10x stronger, it gets nerfed, or the theory crafting of the community can provide a better guide. What a waste of resources and time.
Why is this new relic 8 business getting all hyped up? I've seen what many of my relic 7 toons would look like at relic 8 and I'm less than impressed. I mean there is no massive jump in stats from 7 to 8 despite needing new materials from a new deadly raid and for a very short time I thought that the toons would get some sort of relic ability after reaching relic 8 and use the new materials to activate this new skill. Sadly we just get another relic level which doesnt seem too big of deal. Kind of a waste in my opinion to introduce a new raid over just to add another mediocre relic increase.
Best part of this raid. Is the at least 4 guilds that have cheated and completed the raid. Nothing like seeing a screenshot of someone soloing the raid on Reddit and knowing CG won’t do anything about the cheaters.
"0 tollerance" shares a similar definition to "flat" i guess.
yes and New GLs will be "on Par" with the old ones.
In the words of Inigo Montoya "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means."
Ok here's my thoughts so far. I didn't read all 10 pages so if what I think was already addressed sorry.
1. The r5 relic gate sucks but I think people are overreacting about it. You aren't likely going to beat it with low gear characters anyway.
2. I do think that they went overboard making GLs not be good for this raid. I completely get nerfing the siphon so SLKR isn't as good (he already solos the sith raid) but if the other GLs are supposed to be equal at least one of them (maybe one of the new ones) should be really good. It also is a bit disappointing if you relic 15 characters for GLs and then the GLs are are specially nerfed.
3. The rewards structure could be flatter but it is flatter than hstr so, I think the complaining on that is overblown. It does drop quite a bit from 1st to 10th but stays at about half in the top 25. That is better than a full drop in the top 10 and 10 or 15 salvage in 11th. And it looks like you have a chance at full crafts at every rank.
4. I do have a question on one of the mechanics. The stacking offense and speed that the boss gets for each 20% damage. Is that for 20% damage in one run or if it has taken 20% damage total? Basically, if I go in for my run and my guild has knocked it down to 75% health, will it have stacked offense and health or does that only happen if I hit 20% damage in one run. @Kyno@CG_Doja_Fett If you could clarify this it would be great.
1.) You aren’t likely to beat it with R7 either. The issue that you’re missing is also that the gear pool for reward boxes do not even come close to demanding R5 minimum just to go in and get whipped around like a rag doll.
2.) Bingo. Like always they overtuned the difficulty. It’s like lightside geo TB all over again.
3.) Saying a **** is cleaner than a different **** doesn’t make it any less of one. The reward pool for gear is garbage. The best gear in there is a full craft of old 12 gear. This is supposed to be endgame content yet this doesn’t even offer end game gear? No g12+? No relic materials? None of that?? Don’t even get me started about HAAT gear being included as well as gear that G6/g7 toons need...The fact that the ratio between ends of the ranking system is 11:1 for the new R8 material is also ridiculous.
4.) From what I’ve seen it stays. The damage boost is based on their current % of health so if someone goes in and they clear 20% of the health off, it’s now permanently more, which is ridiculous. Not to mention also preventing counters, healing, max protection gain, no TM reduction, 3x moves per turn with splash damage to a random toon....the list just goes on and on.
1. I'm not sure how you're mad about r5 being required and that below r5 toons would get destroyed. Like I said, I'm not a fan of the gear gate. But it isn't that big of a deal. It keeps me from sending my whole roster in to get .1% at a time but that is pretty tedious anyway. As far as it being difficult, from what I've seen R5 toons can get a couple percent before they die and that is in line with what it needs to be if 50 members are attacking.
3. A key thing to remember is they said flatter, not flat. The pretty decent rewards go down into the top 25 rather than the top 10 which is flatter. The 41-50 rewards flat out suck but I don't see that as a big problem. In the situation that some mentioned where everyone does roughly equal damage, then those spots shouldn't be the same people every time. In the situation where it is the same people every time, they are either in a guild that is pulling them along or refusing to put effort in. Either way, they aren't earning the top rewards.
4. I'm hoping for clarity from the debs on that one. Our guild used the 24hr join phase so we could plan a bit. How this mechanic actually works will make a difference.
I think it is intended to make getting more than 20% of a phase in a run nearly impossible. But if that's the case, it should reset after the run is over. If it does then it seems fine.
If it doesn't, then that creates an advantage for those hitting the early part of the phase and we likely need to send 10 10% teams or 20 5% teams in simultaneously.
Ahhhh someone that actually can hold a serious and intellectual conversation. Not being sarcastic btw lol. Anyway....
1.) I’m more mad that the R5 prevents any theory crafting really and forced a massive gear dump to even try this raid. It’s lazy design when you hope that R5 and better toons get just a little extra damage and that’s it. The mechanics is basically “forget all about strategy and theory craft. All you can do is kitchen sink this thing. Have fun holotable heroes!!”
3.) Flat or flatter. It’s not flat at all lol. And looking at MAW’s thread, the rewards are utter trash. You get a chance at a full base G12 gear piece. Cool. That’s the best you get for something that demands R5 to even try?? No relic material, no g12+ gear, no slicing materials...nada. It’s trash rewards all over. Not to mention more rank tank gear being added in. I digress, CG has no idea what their own economy in game looks like.
4.) That already got answered for you and it’s not what you wanted unfortunately. Gotta love lazy mechanics
1. I would also like to test my R3 amd r4 characters before I decide which to take to r5. It would be nice but compared to the mechanic in no 4, it is the smaller concern to me at least. A star or gear gate for raids is really nothing new. I would have loved to test a 3 star character in hstr before starring them also. To me this is more of the same. So I'll just have to let the krackens test it.
3. To be fair, they didn't promise flat. They promised flatter. And top 25 getting a decent amount of the r8 materials and the prize boxes dropping a chance at fully crafted gear is flatter in my opinion. As for the quality of the gear, there are stun guns and fully crafted kyros available in the gear drop. I think we need more than a few screenshots to decide if the gear part will be decent or not.
4. This is what I see as the biggest problem with the raid and it should be fixed to only ramp damage and speed for a single run and then reset.
1.) Yeah but the star level gates you to g11 and under. You get an idea of their kit and how it works still. Not to mention star level is no nearly as daunting of a task as it is to take someone from say g11 to R5. I just don’t like it at all. They payout vs reqs are just blah....
3.) They’re the ones that said flatter though and I still don’t see that. The R8 pieces are still over 2 to 1 on that. Then fall off a cliff even more.
Given their current groupings, I’d see it being fair of like 11, 10, 9, 8, 6, 3.
That would be flatter for those pieces. As for the rest...cmon man lol. There’s tank gear in there. You could just as easily pull a mk3 holo craft and mk10 weapon mod at rank 3 while someone else at rank 44 gets some G12 salvage and stun guns. It’s a crap structure and terrible reward pool.
4.) Oh it needs to be changed. Without a doubt. Honestly there’s a lot of things they need to change which is why it baffles me they still claim to constantly test as much as they claim.
1. The star gate or the relic gate both keep you from using that toon until you farm for awhile if you're not there. I think it is fair to compare to the time it took when hstr was new. If you didn't have the toon 7 stars, it took several months on a hard node to be able to use them in the raid. I can see what a 3 star moff gideon can do and hypothesize what he'll do in hstr but can't see for sure. That is very similar to seeing what my R3 padme can do and hypothesize what she can do in the new raid. It's not ideal but it's nothing new.
3. The relic materials could be flatter. They could also make it completely equal but they don't want to do so. I actually don't think it should be completely equal. But I'm also realistic. Assuming you get top 30 frequently, you'll get the relic 8 pieces about one a month. That isn't too bad and it gives you a goal to get better. As far as the chance if crappy gear, it's a raid. You've played this game for years now. Did you really think the gear wouldn't have an rng component? Don't get me wrong, I'd love full kyros and g12+ all the time. But I'm realistic. We all knew that wouldn't be the case.
1.) But to an earlier point this is only a money gate really. If you mod a Padme team that’s R4 exactly the same as one R5, the difference is negligible. Between G12 and R5? That I see the difference. So we agree but it’s just a difference on how lol. If that makes sense.
3.) That’s fine having an RNG factor. The problem is the pool of rewards itself. The absolute best you can get is a g12 full craft. Not a finisher or G12+ piece. A g12 base craft. That’s the best??? Ha! Then the infamous tank gear being in that pool? Oh please....
Honestly they should take the same structure as the OG pit before the sim. Some ranks got you 3 pieces and you had RNG. That’s all fine and dandy. However take out the tank raid gear. Take out the Mk3 holo’s, etc.
Make it a pool of let’s say all G12 gear with the full craft chances. Add in the highly desirable core gear like what they sell in those $5 and $10 packs. Then toss in the signal data stuff for relic materials as well as other relic salvage. Boom. A proper reward pool.
1. A 6 star g11 vader could solo hpit too easily. But you still needed 7 stars. So nothing new. Yes it's arbitrary and yes, I would like it lower or non existent but I don't make those decisions.
3. I actually find mk3 holo projectors to be quite useful for crafting relics so I'm fine with them being included. As far as the lack of g12+ gear, one of the things a lot of people have been clamoring for is to ease the pre-gear 12+ crunch. Adding this tier and leaving that gear out makes the pre gear 11 gear more likely. Sounds like CG gave the community what they h as very been asking for (at least for end game players). More gear to get toons to g11 so that g12+ and relics become the bottleneck.
If i'm reading that right, you're saying people asked to ease the G12 gear crunch - and that this, a raid that requires the absolute highest of the high - across the board of a guild - to complete, gives them that g12 gear - it's helping to ease the crunch?!?!?
That can't be what you're saying. I mean, what's the point of easing the crunch for people who've already passed that crunch point? NO ONE in a guild capable of doing this is having a G12 crunch problem.
Not true at all. It is an event tailored to a 50 person guild. That is one team per phase that can do 2%. So assuming the right team comps, you would only need 20 r5 characters to pull your fair share. I have nearly that many and the pre g12 crunch is nowhere near gone. Even if I and everyone in my guild has to r5 another 10 characters, it won't be.
Regardless of the G12 crunch or not, you don’t fix it by saying “get these toons to R5 first, then you can have a chance to get some G12 gear”
That may have been their idea, which I doubt based on who they are, but if that’s the case it’s a poor one at best. Still doesn’t justify the useless tank gear in there
Not saying I don't want g12+ gear too. Just that they likely like the g12+ bottleneck where it is and added lower gear because they want players to get more of it or to shut them up because they have been asking for more gear to get to g11.
As for the tank gear, if you add more of the pre g11 bottleneck gear and don't also add the gear players already get enough of, you potentially just create a new bottleneck at the low level. Similar to how they removed challenge gear from haat and then some players didn't have enough of the gold eyeballs.
The gold eyeballs are currently used 190 times by characters and are constantly being added.
As for this raids rewards? Dude...the prize pool is trash. Allow me to explain. For the itty bitty price of making your toons R5 just to even participate you get......
The mk10 weapon tech gear which is used 40 times and now has a third raid to be obtained in. It’s useless here.
The mk11 weapon tech gear which is used 65 times and is also easily obtainable as a regular in tank raids. It’s useless here.
The mk7 weapon tech gear which is used 81 times by characters but is crafted with, you guessed it, daily challenge gear and is also used mostly in g5/6 toons. Useless.
The mk8 weapon tech gear is used 135 times however is crafted through mk4 laptops and Mk3 callers which are in abundance from daily challenges. It’s also for g8-9 characters. That’s useless here.
The mk8 binocular salvage which is daily challenge gear. Useless here.
The mk9 data salvage which is daily challenge gear. Useless.
Mk7 BAW armor mod salvage. Used 32 times mostly for g5/6 progression. Useless.
Mk7 Nubian security scanners. Used 168 times but! For g9/10 progression.
I could keep going but you should get my point. After all that effort, getting rank 1, imagine your big reward being any of that trash gear above. Talk about flattening
You can also get fully crafted stun guns and kyros and other gear that can be useful. But feel free to cherry pick.
So that pool of rewards is acceptable? So gear rewards at rank 1 that help you get from g5 to g6 in the latest and greatest raid is ok...sigh.
As I said earlier, it really depends on how often decent pieces drop. And it's hard to tell that at the moment.
But getting all mad that CG puts bad gear in with good gear on a raid or any other event is a waste of time. They don't care. They put it in there to keep the good gear at the level they want. Scream at the sky about it all you want. It won't change.
Ok here's my thoughts so far. I didn't read all 10 pages so if what I think was already addressed sorry.
1. The r5 relic gate sucks but I think people are overreacting about it. You aren't likely going to beat it with low gear characters anyway.
2. I do think that they went overboard making GLs not be good for this raid. I completely get nerfing the siphon so SLKR isn't as good (he already solos the sith raid) but if the other GLs are supposed to be equal at least one of them (maybe one of the new ones) should be really good. It also is a bit disappointing if you relic 15 characters for GLs and then the GLs are are specially nerfed.
3. The rewards structure could be flatter but it is flatter than hstr so, I think the complaining on that is overblown. It does drop quite a bit from 1st to 10th but stays at about half in the top 25. That is better than a full drop in the top 10 and 10 or 15 salvage in 11th. And it looks like you have a chance at full crafts at every rank.
4. I do have a question on one of the mechanics. The stacking offense and speed that the boss gets for each 20% damage. Is that for 20% damage in one run or if it has taken 20% damage total? Basically, if I go in for my run and my guild has knocked it down to 75% health, will it have stacked offense and health or does that only happen if I hit 20% damage in one run. @Kyno@CG_Doja_Fett If you could clarify this it would be great.
1.) You aren’t likely to beat it with R7 either. The issue that you’re missing is also that the gear pool for reward boxes do not even come close to demanding R5 minimum just to go in and get whipped around like a rag doll.
2.) Bingo. Like always they overtuned the difficulty. It’s like lightside geo TB all over again.
3.) Saying a **** is cleaner than a different **** doesn’t make it any less of one. The reward pool for gear is garbage. The best gear in there is a full craft of old 12 gear. This is supposed to be endgame content yet this doesn’t even offer end game gear? No g12+? No relic materials? None of that?? Don’t even get me started about HAAT gear being included as well as gear that G6/g7 toons need...The fact that the ratio between ends of the ranking system is 11:1 for the new R8 material is also ridiculous.
4.) From what I’ve seen it stays. The damage boost is based on their current % of health so if someone goes in and they clear 20% of the health off, it’s now permanently more, which is ridiculous. Not to mention also preventing counters, healing, max protection gain, no TM reduction, 3x moves per turn with splash damage to a random toon....the list just goes on and on.
1. I'm not sure how you're mad about r5 being required and that below r5 toons would get destroyed. Like I said, I'm not a fan of the gear gate. But it isn't that big of a deal. It keeps me from sending my whole roster in to get .1% at a time but that is pretty tedious anyway. As far as it being difficult, from what I've seen R5 toons can get a couple percent before they die and that is in line with what it needs to be if 50 members are attacking.
3. A key thing to remember is they said flatter, not flat. The pretty decent rewards go down into the top 25 rather than the top 10 which is flatter. The 41-50 rewards flat out suck but I don't see that as a big problem. In the situation that some mentioned where everyone does roughly equal damage, then those spots shouldn't be the same people every time. In the situation where it is the same people every time, they are either in a guild that is pulling them along or refusing to put effort in. Either way, they aren't earning the top rewards.
4. I'm hoping for clarity from the debs on that one. Our guild used the 24hr join phase so we could plan a bit. How this mechanic actually works will make a difference.
I think it is intended to make getting more than 20% of a phase in a run nearly impossible. But if that's the case, it should reset after the run is over. If it does then it seems fine.
If it doesn't, then that creates an advantage for those hitting the early part of the phase and we likely need to send 10 10% teams or 20 5% teams in simultaneously.
Ahhhh someone that actually can hold a serious and intellectual conversation. Not being sarcastic btw lol. Anyway....
1.) I’m more mad that the R5 prevents any theory crafting really and forced a massive gear dump to even try this raid. It’s lazy design when you hope that R5 and better toons get just a little extra damage and that’s it. The mechanics is basically “forget all about strategy and theory craft. All you can do is kitchen sink this thing. Have fun holotable heroes!!”
3.) Flat or flatter. It’s not flat at all lol. And looking at MAW’s thread, the rewards are utter trash. You get a chance at a full base G12 gear piece. Cool. That’s the best you get for something that demands R5 to even try?? No relic material, no g12+ gear, no slicing materials...nada. It’s trash rewards all over. Not to mention more rank tank gear being added in. I digress, CG has no idea what their own economy in game looks like.
4.) That already got answered for you and it’s not what you wanted unfortunately. Gotta love lazy mechanics
1. I would also like to test my R3 amd r4 characters before I decide which to take to r5. It would be nice but compared to the mechanic in no 4, it is the smaller concern to me at least. A star or gear gate for raids is really nothing new. I would have loved to test a 3 star character in hstr before starring them also. To me this is more of the same. So I'll just have to let the krackens test it.
3. To be fair, they didn't promise flat. They promised flatter. And top 25 getting a decent amount of the r8 materials and the prize boxes dropping a chance at fully crafted gear is flatter in my opinion. As for the quality of the gear, there are stun guns and fully crafted kyros available in the gear drop. I think we need more than a few screenshots to decide if the gear part will be decent or not.
4. This is what I see as the biggest problem with the raid and it should be fixed to only ramp damage and speed for a single run and then reset.
1.) Yeah but the star level gates you to g11 and under. You get an idea of their kit and how it works still. Not to mention star level is no nearly as daunting of a task as it is to take someone from say g11 to R5. I just don’t like it at all. They payout vs reqs are just blah....
3.) They’re the ones that said flatter though and I still don’t see that. The R8 pieces are still over 2 to 1 on that. Then fall off a cliff even more.
Given their current groupings, I’d see it being fair of like 11, 10, 9, 8, 6, 3.
That would be flatter for those pieces. As for the rest...cmon man lol. There’s tank gear in there. You could just as easily pull a mk3 holo craft and mk10 weapon mod at rank 3 while someone else at rank 44 gets some G12 salvage and stun guns. It’s a crap structure and terrible reward pool.
4.) Oh it needs to be changed. Without a doubt. Honestly there’s a lot of things they need to change which is why it baffles me they still claim to constantly test as much as they claim.
1. The star gate or the relic gate both keep you from using that toon until you farm for awhile if you're not there. I think it is fair to compare to the time it took when hstr was new. If you didn't have the toon 7 stars, it took several months on a hard node to be able to use them in the raid. I can see what a 3 star moff gideon can do and hypothesize what he'll do in hstr but can't see for sure. That is very similar to seeing what my R3 padme can do and hypothesize what she can do in the new raid. It's not ideal but it's nothing new.
3. The relic materials could be flatter. They could also make it completely equal but they don't want to do so. I actually don't think it should be completely equal. But I'm also realistic. Assuming you get top 30 frequently, you'll get the relic 8 pieces about one a month. That isn't too bad and it gives you a goal to get better. As far as the chance if crappy gear, it's a raid. You've played this game for years now. Did you really think the gear wouldn't have an rng component? Don't get me wrong, I'd love full kyros and g12+ all the time. But I'm realistic. We all knew that wouldn't be the case.
1.) But to an earlier point this is only a money gate really. If you mod a Padme team that’s R4 exactly the same as one R5, the difference is negligible. Between G12 and R5? That I see the difference. So we agree but it’s just a difference on how lol. If that makes sense.
3.) That’s fine having an RNG factor. The problem is the pool of rewards itself. The absolute best you can get is a g12 full craft. Not a finisher or G12+ piece. A g12 base craft. That’s the best??? Ha! Then the infamous tank gear being in that pool? Oh please....
Honestly they should take the same structure as the OG pit before the sim. Some ranks got you 3 pieces and you had RNG. That’s all fine and dandy. However take out the tank raid gear. Take out the Mk3 holo’s, etc.
Make it a pool of let’s say all G12 gear with the full craft chances. Add in the highly desirable core gear like what they sell in those $5 and $10 packs. Then toss in the signal data stuff for relic materials as well as other relic salvage. Boom. A proper reward pool.
1. A 6 star g11 vader could solo hpit too easily. But you still needed 7 stars. So nothing new. Yes it's arbitrary and yes, I would like it lower or non existent but I don't make those decisions.
3. I actually find mk3 holo projectors to be quite useful for crafting relics so I'm fine with them being included. As far as the lack of g12+ gear, one of the things a lot of people have been clamoring for is to ease the pre-gear 12+ crunch. Adding this tier and leaving that gear out makes the pre gear 11 gear more likely. Sounds like CG gave the community what they h as very been asking for (at least for end game players). More gear to get toons to g11 so that g12+ and relics become the bottleneck.
If i'm reading that right, you're saying people asked to ease the G12 gear crunch - and that this, a raid that requires the absolute highest of the high - across the board of a guild - to complete, gives them that g12 gear - it's helping to ease the crunch?!?!?
That can't be what you're saying. I mean, what's the point of easing the crunch for people who've already passed that crunch point? NO ONE in a guild capable of doing this is having a G12 crunch problem.
Not true at all. It is an event tailored to a 50 person guild. That is one team per phase that can do 2%. So assuming the right team comps, you would only need 20 r5 characters to pull your fair share. I have nearly that many and the pre g12 crunch is nowhere near gone. Even if I and everyone in my guild has to r5 another 10 characters, it won't be.
Regardless of the G12 crunch or not, you don’t fix it by saying “get these toons to R5 first, then you can have a chance to get some G12 gear”
That may have been their idea, which I doubt based on who they are, but if that’s the case it’s a poor one at best. Still doesn’t justify the useless tank gear in there
Not saying I don't want g12+ gear too. Just that they likely like the g12+ bottleneck where it is and added lower gear because they want players to get more of it or to shut them up because they have been asking for more gear to get to g11.
As for the tank gear, if you add more of the pre g11 bottleneck gear and don't also add the gear players already get enough of, you potentially just create a new bottleneck at the low level. Similar to how they removed challenge gear from haat and then some players didn't have enough of the gold eyeballs.
The gold eyeballs are currently used 190 times by characters and are constantly being added.
As for this raids rewards? Dude...the prize pool is trash. Allow me to explain. For the itty bitty price of making your toons R5 just to even participate you get......
The mk10 weapon tech gear which is used 40 times and now has a third raid to be obtained in. It’s useless here.
The mk11 weapon tech gear which is used 65 times and is also easily obtainable as a regular in tank raids. It’s useless here.
The mk7 weapon tech gear which is used 81 times by characters but is crafted with, you guessed it, daily challenge gear and is also used mostly in g5/6 toons. Useless.
The mk8 weapon tech gear is used 135 times however is crafted through mk4 laptops and Mk3 callers which are in abundance from daily challenges. It’s also for g8-9 characters. That’s useless here.
The mk8 binocular salvage which is daily challenge gear. Useless here.
The mk9 data salvage which is daily challenge gear. Useless.
Mk7 BAW armor mod salvage. Used 32 times mostly for g5/6 progression. Useless.
Mk7 Nubian security scanners. Used 168 times but! For g9/10 progression.
I could keep going but you should get my point. After all that effort, getting rank 1, imagine your big reward being any of that trash gear above. Talk about flattening
You can also get fully crafted stun guns and kyros and other gear that can be useful. But feel free to cherry pick.
So you feel the chance being out there is good enough?
If this requires r5 to get in, the rewards better be things needed to get from r4 to r5..... or better yet.... things to get from r5 to r8
It depends on what the drop rates at good gear seems to be. Too early to tell that right now. But I do like that full kyros is an option.
You do know that CG puts the less desirable gear in there to make it look like you get more. If they remove it, that doesn't mean more great gear. Probably just less pieces of good gear more often and less full crafts. They will put gear economy where they want regardless of what I would like.
I would like a full kyro and a full stun gun every week but I know that isn't realistic.
I think the worst part of this whole stinking pile of Bantha pudu is the Pit Fighter II ability which ramps each boss mob's offense and speed each time it loses 20% of its health.
That means the most effective way to fight is to line up all 50 guild members at the start of each phase and have them all battle simultaneously. Anything less than that is inefficient and makes the event even harder.
This effectively penalizes any guild which spans multiple timezones or is anything less than hardcore committed to the game. A terrible idea for a global game where guilds commonly span multiple timezones and even multiple continents.
I get wanting to make the raid difficult and not solo-able, but at the very least, remove the time limit and reset guilds rosters each day or ever couple of days so that medium sized guilds at least have a chance to participate without being blocked from relic levels. Just because we dont have hundreds of relic 5+ squads doesnt mean we don't have squads that could benefit from relic 8 or that we wouldn't benefit from the additional relic level to help keep up in arena. You have guilds full of players who have been dedicated to the game for 3+ years and aren't even going to be able to beat the raid in its current form.
Thank you CG for giving us the Rancor Raid. We just finished it, and it was a blast. It brought our whole guild together to collaborate, and everyone had fun.
Appreciate your effort and dedication to the game.
I get you want to make end game content, but R5 is ridiculous. At least allow us to pick the difficulty with scaling rewards. G12, R1, R2, R3, R4 & R5 gates. That at least allows everyone have “new” content (even though it’s just recycling old content at more difficult levels). Also, can you please flatten the rewards? The vast difference between first and 10th place is wrong.
I’m in a top guild and we just finished getting the raid down and there is already in-house toxicity due to needing everyone to attack at the same time. The ramping stats make it impossible to complete without being coordinated. The gear rewards might be a lot fairer (good job on that, honestly) but the mats and raid mechanics are going to cause huge problems moving forward.
If you forget to go in airplane mode or enough ppl accidentally die and push the raid into the 80% threshold you screw over any members that are backing out to get better runs. It’s good that it’s a challenge but the increasing stats every 20% is probably unnecessary. If the raid mechanics stay the same then at the very least something needs to be done about the mats.
I think that over the next few weeks ppl will figure out the best teams to use and I personally got 6.6m using my JML Jedi, padme, cls, shakti clones and rey on my first run without too much trouble.
I think the biggest problems will continue to be about the mats, despite r8 not being a big deal right now.
Ok here's my thoughts so far. I didn't read all 10 pages so if what I think was already addressed sorry.
1. The r5 relic gate sucks but I think people are overreacting about it. You aren't likely going to beat it with low gear characters anyway.
2. I do think that they went overboard making GLs not be good for this raid. I completely get nerfing the siphon so SLKR isn't as good (he already solos the sith raid) but if the other GLs are supposed to be equal at least one of them (maybe one of the new ones) should be really good. It also is a bit disappointing if you relic 15 characters for GLs and then the GLs are are specially nerfed.
3. The rewards structure could be flatter but it is flatter than hstr so, I think the complaining on that is overblown. It does drop quite a bit from 1st to 10th but stays at about half in the top 25. That is better than a full drop in the top 10 and 10 or 15 salvage in 11th. And it looks like you have a chance at full crafts at every rank.
4. I do have a question on one of the mechanics. The stacking offense and speed that the boss gets for each 20% damage. Is that for 20% damage in one run or if it has taken 20% damage total? Basically, if I go in for my run and my guild has knocked it down to 75% health, will it have stacked offense and health or does that only happen if I hit 20% damage in one run. @Kyno@CG_Doja_Fett If you could clarify this it would be great.
1.) You aren’t likely to beat it with R7 either. The issue that you’re missing is also that the gear pool for reward boxes do not even come close to demanding R5 minimum just to go in and get whipped around like a rag doll.
2.) Bingo. Like always they overtuned the difficulty. It’s like lightside geo TB all over again.
3.) Saying a **** is cleaner than a different **** doesn’t make it any less of one. The reward pool for gear is garbage. The best gear in there is a full craft of old 12 gear. This is supposed to be endgame content yet this doesn’t even offer end game gear? No g12+? No relic materials? None of that?? Don’t even get me started about HAAT gear being included as well as gear that G6/g7 toons need...The fact that the ratio between ends of the ranking system is 11:1 for the new R8 material is also ridiculous.
4.) From what I’ve seen it stays. The damage boost is based on their current % of health so if someone goes in and they clear 20% of the health off, it’s now permanently more, which is ridiculous. Not to mention also preventing counters, healing, max protection gain, no TM reduction, 3x moves per turn with splash damage to a random toon....the list just goes on and on.
1. I'm not sure how you're mad about r5 being required and that below r5 toons would get destroyed. Like I said, I'm not a fan of the gear gate. But it isn't that big of a deal. It keeps me from sending my whole roster in to get .1% at a time but that is pretty tedious anyway. As far as it being difficult, from what I've seen R5 toons can get a couple percent before they die and that is in line with what it needs to be if 50 members are attacking.
3. A key thing to remember is they said flatter, not flat. The pretty decent rewards go down into the top 25 rather than the top 10 which is flatter. The 41-50 rewards flat out suck but I don't see that as a big problem. In the situation that some mentioned where everyone does roughly equal damage, then those spots shouldn't be the same people every time. In the situation where it is the same people every time, they are either in a guild that is pulling them along or refusing to put effort in. Either way, they aren't earning the top rewards.
4. I'm hoping for clarity from the debs on that one. Our guild used the 24hr join phase so we could plan a bit. How this mechanic actually works will make a difference.
I think it is intended to make getting more than 20% of a phase in a run nearly impossible. But if that's the case, it should reset after the run is over. If it does then it seems fine.
If it doesn't, then that creates an advantage for those hitting the early part of the phase and we likely need to send 10 10% teams or 20 5% teams in simultaneously.
Ahhhh someone that actually can hold a serious and intellectual conversation. Not being sarcastic btw lol. Anyway....
1.) I’m more mad that the R5 prevents any theory crafting really and forced a massive gear dump to even try this raid. It’s lazy design when you hope that R5 and better toons get just a little extra damage and that’s it. The mechanics is basically “forget all about strategy and theory craft. All you can do is kitchen sink this thing. Have fun holotable heroes!!”
3.) Flat or flatter. It’s not flat at all lol. And looking at MAW’s thread, the rewards are utter trash. You get a chance at a full base G12 gear piece. Cool. That’s the best you get for something that demands R5 to even try?? No relic material, no g12+ gear, no slicing materials...nada. It’s trash rewards all over. Not to mention more rank tank gear being added in. I digress, CG has no idea what their own economy in game looks like.
4.) That already got answered for you and it’s not what you wanted unfortunately. Gotta love lazy mechanics
1. I would also like to test my R3 amd r4 characters before I decide which to take to r5. It would be nice but compared to the mechanic in no 4, it is the smaller concern to me at least. A star or gear gate for raids is really nothing new. I would have loved to test a 3 star character in hstr before starring them also. To me this is more of the same. So I'll just have to let the krackens test it.
3. To be fair, they didn't promise flat. They promised flatter. And top 25 getting a decent amount of the r8 materials and the prize boxes dropping a chance at fully crafted gear is flatter in my opinion. As for the quality of the gear, there are stun guns and fully crafted kyros available in the gear drop. I think we need more than a few screenshots to decide if the gear part will be decent or not.
4. This is what I see as the biggest problem with the raid and it should be fixed to only ramp damage and speed for a single run and then reset.
1.) Yeah but the star level gates you to g11 and under. You get an idea of their kit and how it works still. Not to mention star level is no nearly as daunting of a task as it is to take someone from say g11 to R5. I just don’t like it at all. They payout vs reqs are just blah....
3.) They’re the ones that said flatter though and I still don’t see that. The R8 pieces are still over 2 to 1 on that. Then fall off a cliff even more.
Given their current groupings, I’d see it being fair of like 11, 10, 9, 8, 6, 3.
That would be flatter for those pieces. As for the rest...cmon man lol. There’s tank gear in there. You could just as easily pull a mk3 holo craft and mk10 weapon mod at rank 3 while someone else at rank 44 gets some G12 salvage and stun guns. It’s a crap structure and terrible reward pool.
4.) Oh it needs to be changed. Without a doubt. Honestly there’s a lot of things they need to change which is why it baffles me they still claim to constantly test as much as they claim.
1. The star gate or the relic gate both keep you from using that toon until you farm for awhile if you're not there. I think it is fair to compare to the time it took when hstr was new. If you didn't have the toon 7 stars, it took several months on a hard node to be able to use them in the raid. I can see what a 3 star moff gideon can do and hypothesize what he'll do in hstr but can't see for sure. That is very similar to seeing what my R3 padme can do and hypothesize what she can do in the new raid. It's not ideal but it's nothing new.
3. The relic materials could be flatter. They could also make it completely equal but they don't want to do so. I actually don't think it should be completely equal. But I'm also realistic. Assuming you get top 30 frequently, you'll get the relic 8 pieces about one a month. That isn't too bad and it gives you a goal to get better. As far as the chance if crappy gear, it's a raid. You've played this game for years now. Did you really think the gear wouldn't have an rng component? Don't get me wrong, I'd love full kyros and g12+ all the time. But I'm realistic. We all knew that wouldn't be the case.
1.) But to an earlier point this is only a money gate really. If you mod a Padme team that’s R4 exactly the same as one R5, the difference is negligible. Between G12 and R5? That I see the difference. So we agree but it’s just a difference on how lol. If that makes sense.
3.) That’s fine having an RNG factor. The problem is the pool of rewards itself. The absolute best you can get is a g12 full craft. Not a finisher or G12+ piece. A g12 base craft. That’s the best??? Ha! Then the infamous tank gear being in that pool? Oh please....
Honestly they should take the same structure as the OG pit before the sim. Some ranks got you 3 pieces and you had RNG. That’s all fine and dandy. However take out the tank raid gear. Take out the Mk3 holo’s, etc.
Make it a pool of let’s say all G12 gear with the full craft chances. Add in the highly desirable core gear like what they sell in those $5 and $10 packs. Then toss in the signal data stuff for relic materials as well as other relic salvage. Boom. A proper reward pool.
1. A 6 star g11 vader could solo hpit too easily. But you still needed 7 stars. So nothing new. Yes it's arbitrary and yes, I would like it lower or non existent but I don't make those decisions.
3. I actually find mk3 holo projectors to be quite useful for crafting relics so I'm fine with them being included. As far as the lack of g12+ gear, one of the things a lot of people have been clamoring for is to ease the pre-gear 12+ crunch. Adding this tier and leaving that gear out makes the pre gear 11 gear more likely. Sounds like CG gave the community what they h as very been asking for (at least for end game players). More gear to get toons to g11 so that g12+ and relics become the bottleneck.
If i'm reading that right, you're saying people asked to ease the G12 gear crunch - and that this, a raid that requires the absolute highest of the high - across the board of a guild - to complete, gives them that g12 gear - it's helping to ease the crunch?!?!?
That can't be what you're saying. I mean, what's the point of easing the crunch for people who've already passed that crunch point? NO ONE in a guild capable of doing this is having a G12 crunch problem.
Not true at all. It is an event tailored to a 50 person guild. That is one team per phase that can do 2%. So assuming the right team comps, you would only need 20 r5 characters to pull your fair share. I have nearly that many and the pre g12 crunch is nowhere near gone. Even if I and everyone in my guild has to r5 another 10 characters, it won't be.
Regardless of the G12 crunch or not, you don’t fix it by saying “get these toons to R5 first, then you can have a chance to get some G12 gear”
That may have been their idea, which I doubt based on who they are, but if that’s the case it’s a poor one at best. Still doesn’t justify the useless tank gear in there
Not saying I don't want g12+ gear too. Just that they likely like the g12+ bottleneck where it is and added lower gear because they want players to get more of it or to shut them up because they have been asking for more gear to get to g11.
As for the tank gear, if you add more of the pre g11 bottleneck gear and don't also add the gear players already get enough of, you potentially just create a new bottleneck at the low level. Similar to how they removed challenge gear from haat and then some players didn't have enough of the gold eyeballs.
The gold eyeballs are currently used 190 times by characters and are constantly being added.
As for this raids rewards? Dude...the prize pool is trash. Allow me to explain. For the itty bitty price of making your toons R5 just to even participate you get......
The mk10 weapon tech gear which is used 40 times and now has a third raid to be obtained in. It’s useless here.
The mk11 weapon tech gear which is used 65 times and is also easily obtainable as a regular in tank raids. It’s useless here.
The mk7 weapon tech gear which is used 81 times by characters but is crafted with, you guessed it, daily challenge gear and is also used mostly in g5/6 toons. Useless.
The mk8 weapon tech gear is used 135 times however is crafted through mk4 laptops and Mk3 callers which are in abundance from daily challenges. It’s also for g8-9 characters. That’s useless here.
The mk8 binocular salvage which is daily challenge gear. Useless here.
The mk9 data salvage which is daily challenge gear. Useless.
Mk7 BAW armor mod salvage. Used 32 times mostly for g5/6 progression. Useless.
Mk7 Nubian security scanners. Used 168 times but! For g9/10 progression.
I could keep going but you should get my point. After all that effort, getting rank 1, imagine your big reward being any of that trash gear above. Talk about flattening
You can also get fully crafted stun guns and kyros and other gear that can be useful. But feel free to cherry pick.
So you feel the chance being out there is good enough?
If this requires r5 to get in, the rewards better be things needed to get from r4 to r5..... or better yet.... things to get from r5 to r8
It depends on what the drop rates at good gear seems to be.
No it doesnt.
This is end game content, for end game players. It should reward end game items or things that get you to end game.
This having a higher drop rate than 0.0% for any player is just wrong as its not gear one needs.
Waiting to see how often it happens is missing the point, it shouldnt be there to begin with.
Ok here's my thoughts so far. I didn't read all 10 pages so if what I think was already addressed sorry.
1. The r5 relic gate sucks but I think people are overreacting about it. You aren't likely going to beat it with low gear characters anyway.
2. I do think that they went overboard making GLs not be good for this raid. I completely get nerfing the siphon so SLKR isn't as good (he already solos the sith raid) but if the other GLs are supposed to be equal at least one of them (maybe one of the new ones) should be really good. It also is a bit disappointing if you relic 15 characters for GLs and then the GLs are are specially nerfed.
3. The rewards structure could be flatter but it is flatter than hstr so, I think the complaining on that is overblown. It does drop quite a bit from 1st to 10th but stays at about half in the top 25. That is better than a full drop in the top 10 and 10 or 15 salvage in 11th. And it looks like you have a chance at full crafts at every rank.
4. I do have a question on one of the mechanics. The stacking offense and speed that the boss gets for each 20% damage. Is that for 20% damage in one run or if it has taken 20% damage total? Basically, if I go in for my run and my guild has knocked it down to 75% health, will it have stacked offense and health or does that only happen if I hit 20% damage in one run. @Kyno@CG_Doja_Fett If you could clarify this it would be great.
1.) You aren’t likely to beat it with R7 either. The issue that you’re missing is also that the gear pool for reward boxes do not even come close to demanding R5 minimum just to go in and get whipped around like a rag doll.
2.) Bingo. Like always they overtuned the difficulty. It’s like lightside geo TB all over again.
3.) Saying a **** is cleaner than a different **** doesn’t make it any less of one. The reward pool for gear is garbage. The best gear in there is a full craft of old 12 gear. This is supposed to be endgame content yet this doesn’t even offer end game gear? No g12+? No relic materials? None of that?? Don’t even get me started about HAAT gear being included as well as gear that G6/g7 toons need...The fact that the ratio between ends of the ranking system is 11:1 for the new R8 material is also ridiculous.
4.) From what I’ve seen it stays. The damage boost is based on their current % of health so if someone goes in and they clear 20% of the health off, it’s now permanently more, which is ridiculous. Not to mention also preventing counters, healing, max protection gain, no TM reduction, 3x moves per turn with splash damage to a random toon....the list just goes on and on.
1. I'm not sure how you're mad about r5 being required and that below r5 toons would get destroyed. Like I said, I'm not a fan of the gear gate. But it isn't that big of a deal. It keeps me from sending my whole roster in to get .1% at a time but that is pretty tedious anyway. As far as it being difficult, from what I've seen R5 toons can get a couple percent before they die and that is in line with what it needs to be if 50 members are attacking.
3. A key thing to remember is they said flatter, not flat. The pretty decent rewards go down into the top 25 rather than the top 10 which is flatter. The 41-50 rewards flat out suck but I don't see that as a big problem. In the situation that some mentioned where everyone does roughly equal damage, then those spots shouldn't be the same people every time. In the situation where it is the same people every time, they are either in a guild that is pulling them along or refusing to put effort in. Either way, they aren't earning the top rewards.
4. I'm hoping for clarity from the debs on that one. Our guild used the 24hr join phase so we could plan a bit. How this mechanic actually works will make a difference.
I think it is intended to make getting more than 20% of a phase in a run nearly impossible. But if that's the case, it should reset after the run is over. If it does then it seems fine.
If it doesn't, then that creates an advantage for those hitting the early part of the phase and we likely need to send 10 10% teams or 20 5% teams in simultaneously.
Ahhhh someone that actually can hold a serious and intellectual conversation. Not being sarcastic btw lol. Anyway....
1.) I’m more mad that the R5 prevents any theory crafting really and forced a massive gear dump to even try this raid. It’s lazy design when you hope that R5 and better toons get just a little extra damage and that’s it. The mechanics is basically “forget all about strategy and theory craft. All you can do is kitchen sink this thing. Have fun holotable heroes!!”
3.) Flat or flatter. It’s not flat at all lol. And looking at MAW’s thread, the rewards are utter trash. You get a chance at a full base G12 gear piece. Cool. That’s the best you get for something that demands R5 to even try?? No relic material, no g12+ gear, no slicing materials...nada. It’s trash rewards all over. Not to mention more rank tank gear being added in. I digress, CG has no idea what their own economy in game looks like.
4.) That already got answered for you and it’s not what you wanted unfortunately. Gotta love lazy mechanics
1. I would also like to test my R3 amd r4 characters before I decide which to take to r5. It would be nice but compared to the mechanic in no 4, it is the smaller concern to me at least. A star or gear gate for raids is really nothing new. I would have loved to test a 3 star character in hstr before starring them also. To me this is more of the same. So I'll just have to let the krackens test it.
3. To be fair, they didn't promise flat. They promised flatter. And top 25 getting a decent amount of the r8 materials and the prize boxes dropping a chance at fully crafted gear is flatter in my opinion. As for the quality of the gear, there are stun guns and fully crafted kyros available in the gear drop. I think we need more than a few screenshots to decide if the gear part will be decent or not.
4. This is what I see as the biggest problem with the raid and it should be fixed to only ramp damage and speed for a single run and then reset.
1.) Yeah but the star level gates you to g11 and under. You get an idea of their kit and how it works still. Not to mention star level is no nearly as daunting of a task as it is to take someone from say g11 to R5. I just don’t like it at all. They payout vs reqs are just blah....
3.) They’re the ones that said flatter though and I still don’t see that. The R8 pieces are still over 2 to 1 on that. Then fall off a cliff even more.
Given their current groupings, I’d see it being fair of like 11, 10, 9, 8, 6, 3.
That would be flatter for those pieces. As for the rest...cmon man lol. There’s tank gear in there. You could just as easily pull a mk3 holo craft and mk10 weapon mod at rank 3 while someone else at rank 44 gets some G12 salvage and stun guns. It’s a crap structure and terrible reward pool.
4.) Oh it needs to be changed. Without a doubt. Honestly there’s a lot of things they need to change which is why it baffles me they still claim to constantly test as much as they claim.
1. The star gate or the relic gate both keep you from using that toon until you farm for awhile if you're not there. I think it is fair to compare to the time it took when hstr was new. If you didn't have the toon 7 stars, it took several months on a hard node to be able to use them in the raid. I can see what a 3 star moff gideon can do and hypothesize what he'll do in hstr but can't see for sure. That is very similar to seeing what my R3 padme can do and hypothesize what she can do in the new raid. It's not ideal but it's nothing new.
3. The relic materials could be flatter. They could also make it completely equal but they don't want to do so. I actually don't think it should be completely equal. But I'm also realistic. Assuming you get top 30 frequently, you'll get the relic 8 pieces about one a month. That isn't too bad and it gives you a goal to get better. As far as the chance if crappy gear, it's a raid. You've played this game for years now. Did you really think the gear wouldn't have an rng component? Don't get me wrong, I'd love full kyros and g12+ all the time. But I'm realistic. We all knew that wouldn't be the case.
1.) But to an earlier point this is only a money gate really. If you mod a Padme team that’s R4 exactly the same as one R5, the difference is negligible. Between G12 and R5? That I see the difference. So we agree but it’s just a difference on how lol. If that makes sense.
3.) That’s fine having an RNG factor. The problem is the pool of rewards itself. The absolute best you can get is a g12 full craft. Not a finisher or G12+ piece. A g12 base craft. That’s the best??? Ha! Then the infamous tank gear being in that pool? Oh please....
Honestly they should take the same structure as the OG pit before the sim. Some ranks got you 3 pieces and you had RNG. That’s all fine and dandy. However take out the tank raid gear. Take out the Mk3 holo’s, etc.
Make it a pool of let’s say all G12 gear with the full craft chances. Add in the highly desirable core gear like what they sell in those $5 and $10 packs. Then toss in the signal data stuff for relic materials as well as other relic salvage. Boom. A proper reward pool.
1. A 6 star g11 vader could solo hpit too easily. But you still needed 7 stars. So nothing new. Yes it's arbitrary and yes, I would like it lower or non existent but I don't make those decisions.
3. I actually find mk3 holo projectors to be quite useful for crafting relics so I'm fine with them being included. As far as the lack of g12+ gear, one of the things a lot of people have been clamoring for is to ease the pre-gear 12+ crunch. Adding this tier and leaving that gear out makes the pre gear 11 gear more likely. Sounds like CG gave the community what they h as very been asking for (at least for end game players). More gear to get toons to g11 so that g12+ and relics become the bottleneck.
If i'm reading that right, you're saying people asked to ease the G12 gear crunch - and that this, a raid that requires the absolute highest of the high - across the board of a guild - to complete, gives them that g12 gear - it's helping to ease the crunch?!?!?
That can't be what you're saying. I mean, what's the point of easing the crunch for people who've already passed that crunch point? NO ONE in a guild capable of doing this is having a G12 crunch problem.
Not true at all. It is an event tailored to a 50 person guild. That is one team per phase that can do 2%. So assuming the right team comps, you would only need 20 r5 characters to pull your fair share. I have nearly that many and the pre g12 crunch is nowhere near gone. Even if I and everyone in my guild has to r5 another 10 characters, it won't be.
Regardless of the G12 crunch or not, you don’t fix it by saying “get these toons to R5 first, then you can have a chance to get some G12 gear”
That may have been their idea, which I doubt based on who they are, but if that’s the case it’s a poor one at best. Still doesn’t justify the useless tank gear in there
Not saying I don't want g12+ gear too. Just that they likely like the g12+ bottleneck where it is and added lower gear because they want players to get more of it or to shut them up because they have been asking for more gear to get to g11.
As for the tank gear, if you add more of the pre g11 bottleneck gear and don't also add the gear players already get enough of, you potentially just create a new bottleneck at the low level. Similar to how they removed challenge gear from haat and then some players didn't have enough of the gold eyeballs.
The gold eyeballs are currently used 190 times by characters and are constantly being added.
As for this raids rewards? Dude...the prize pool is trash. Allow me to explain. For the itty bitty price of making your toons R5 just to even participate you get......
The mk10 weapon tech gear which is used 40 times and now has a third raid to be obtained in. It’s useless here.
The mk11 weapon tech gear which is used 65 times and is also easily obtainable as a regular in tank raids. It’s useless here.
The mk7 weapon tech gear which is used 81 times by characters but is crafted with, you guessed it, daily challenge gear and is also used mostly in g5/6 toons. Useless.
The mk8 weapon tech gear is used 135 times however is crafted through mk4 laptops and Mk3 callers which are in abundance from daily challenges. It’s also for g8-9 characters. That’s useless here.
The mk8 binocular salvage which is daily challenge gear. Useless here.
The mk9 data salvage which is daily challenge gear. Useless.
Mk7 BAW armor mod salvage. Used 32 times mostly for g5/6 progression. Useless.
Mk7 Nubian security scanners. Used 168 times but! For g9/10 progression.
I could keep going but you should get my point. After all that effort, getting rank 1, imagine your big reward being any of that trash gear above. Talk about flattening
You can also get fully crafted stun guns and kyros and other gear that can be useful. But feel free to cherry pick.
So you feel the chance being out there is good enough?
If this requires r5 to get in, the rewards better be things needed to get from r4 to r5..... or better yet.... things to get from r5 to r8
It depends on what the drop rates at good gear seems to be.
No it doesnt.
This is end game content, for end game players. It should reward end game items or things that get you to end game.
This having a higher drop rate than 0.0% for any player is just wrong as its not gear one needs.
Waiting to see how often it happens is missing the point, it shouldnt be there to begin with.
Ok good luck with that complaint. I assume that means you'll be sitting out the new raid if you think the gear is garbage.
I'll agree to disagree. If I get kyros and stun guns pretty frequently, I'm good with it.
Ok here's my thoughts so far. I didn't read all 10 pages so if what I think was already addressed sorry.
1. The r5 relic gate sucks but I think people are overreacting about it. You aren't likely going to beat it with low gear characters anyway.
2. I do think that they went overboard making GLs not be good for this raid. I completely get nerfing the siphon so SLKR isn't as good (he already solos the sith raid) but if the other GLs are supposed to be equal at least one of them (maybe one of the new ones) should be really good. It also is a bit disappointing if you relic 15 characters for GLs and then the GLs are are specially nerfed.
3. The rewards structure could be flatter but it is flatter than hstr so, I think the complaining on that is overblown. It does drop quite a bit from 1st to 10th but stays at about half in the top 25. That is better than a full drop in the top 10 and 10 or 15 salvage in 11th. And it looks like you have a chance at full crafts at every rank.
4. I do have a question on one of the mechanics. The stacking offense and speed that the boss gets for each 20% damage. Is that for 20% damage in one run or if it has taken 20% damage total? Basically, if I go in for my run and my guild has knocked it down to 75% health, will it have stacked offense and health or does that only happen if I hit 20% damage in one run. @Kyno@CG_Doja_Fett If you could clarify this it would be great.
1.) You aren’t likely to beat it with R7 either. The issue that you’re missing is also that the gear pool for reward boxes do not even come close to demanding R5 minimum just to go in and get whipped around like a rag doll.
2.) Bingo. Like always they overtuned the difficulty. It’s like lightside geo TB all over again.
3.) Saying a **** is cleaner than a different **** doesn’t make it any less of one. The reward pool for gear is garbage. The best gear in there is a full craft of old 12 gear. This is supposed to be endgame content yet this doesn’t even offer end game gear? No g12+? No relic materials? None of that?? Don’t even get me started about HAAT gear being included as well as gear that G6/g7 toons need...The fact that the ratio between ends of the ranking system is 11:1 for the new R8 material is also ridiculous.
4.) From what I’ve seen it stays. The damage boost is based on their current % of health so if someone goes in and they clear 20% of the health off, it’s now permanently more, which is ridiculous. Not to mention also preventing counters, healing, max protection gain, no TM reduction, 3x moves per turn with splash damage to a random toon....the list just goes on and on.
1. I'm not sure how you're mad about r5 being required and that below r5 toons would get destroyed. Like I said, I'm not a fan of the gear gate. But it isn't that big of a deal. It keeps me from sending my whole roster in to get .1% at a time but that is pretty tedious anyway. As far as it being difficult, from what I've seen R5 toons can get a couple percent before they die and that is in line with what it needs to be if 50 members are attacking.
3. A key thing to remember is they said flatter, not flat. The pretty decent rewards go down into the top 25 rather than the top 10 which is flatter. The 41-50 rewards flat out suck but I don't see that as a big problem. In the situation that some mentioned where everyone does roughly equal damage, then those spots shouldn't be the same people every time. In the situation where it is the same people every time, they are either in a guild that is pulling them along or refusing to put effort in. Either way, they aren't earning the top rewards.
4. I'm hoping for clarity from the debs on that one. Our guild used the 24hr join phase so we could plan a bit. How this mechanic actually works will make a difference.
I think it is intended to make getting more than 20% of a phase in a run nearly impossible. But if that's the case, it should reset after the run is over. If it does then it seems fine.
If it doesn't, then that creates an advantage for those hitting the early part of the phase and we likely need to send 10 10% teams or 20 5% teams in simultaneously.
Ahhhh someone that actually can hold a serious and intellectual conversation. Not being sarcastic btw lol. Anyway....
1.) I’m more mad that the R5 prevents any theory crafting really and forced a massive gear dump to even try this raid. It’s lazy design when you hope that R5 and better toons get just a little extra damage and that’s it. The mechanics is basically “forget all about strategy and theory craft. All you can do is kitchen sink this thing. Have fun holotable heroes!!”
3.) Flat or flatter. It’s not flat at all lol. And looking at MAW’s thread, the rewards are utter trash. You get a chance at a full base G12 gear piece. Cool. That’s the best you get for something that demands R5 to even try?? No relic material, no g12+ gear, no slicing materials...nada. It’s trash rewards all over. Not to mention more rank tank gear being added in. I digress, CG has no idea what their own economy in game looks like.
4.) That already got answered for you and it’s not what you wanted unfortunately. Gotta love lazy mechanics
1. I would also like to test my R3 amd r4 characters before I decide which to take to r5. It would be nice but compared to the mechanic in no 4, it is the smaller concern to me at least. A star or gear gate for raids is really nothing new. I would have loved to test a 3 star character in hstr before starring them also. To me this is more of the same. So I'll just have to let the krackens test it.
3. To be fair, they didn't promise flat. They promised flatter. And top 25 getting a decent amount of the r8 materials and the prize boxes dropping a chance at fully crafted gear is flatter in my opinion. As for the quality of the gear, there are stun guns and fully crafted kyros available in the gear drop. I think we need more than a few screenshots to decide if the gear part will be decent or not.
4. This is what I see as the biggest problem with the raid and it should be fixed to only ramp damage and speed for a single run and then reset.
1.) Yeah but the star level gates you to g11 and under. You get an idea of their kit and how it works still. Not to mention star level is no nearly as daunting of a task as it is to take someone from say g11 to R5. I just don’t like it at all. They payout vs reqs are just blah....
3.) They’re the ones that said flatter though and I still don’t see that. The R8 pieces are still over 2 to 1 on that. Then fall off a cliff even more.
Given their current groupings, I’d see it being fair of like 11, 10, 9, 8, 6, 3.
That would be flatter for those pieces. As for the rest...cmon man lol. There’s tank gear in there. You could just as easily pull a mk3 holo craft and mk10 weapon mod at rank 3 while someone else at rank 44 gets some G12 salvage and stun guns. It’s a crap structure and terrible reward pool.
4.) Oh it needs to be changed. Without a doubt. Honestly there’s a lot of things they need to change which is why it baffles me they still claim to constantly test as much as they claim.
1. The star gate or the relic gate both keep you from using that toon until you farm for awhile if you're not there. I think it is fair to compare to the time it took when hstr was new. If you didn't have the toon 7 stars, it took several months on a hard node to be able to use them in the raid. I can see what a 3 star moff gideon can do and hypothesize what he'll do in hstr but can't see for sure. That is very similar to seeing what my R3 padme can do and hypothesize what she can do in the new raid. It's not ideal but it's nothing new.
3. The relic materials could be flatter. They could also make it completely equal but they don't want to do so. I actually don't think it should be completely equal. But I'm also realistic. Assuming you get top 30 frequently, you'll get the relic 8 pieces about one a month. That isn't too bad and it gives you a goal to get better. As far as the chance if crappy gear, it's a raid. You've played this game for years now. Did you really think the gear wouldn't have an rng component? Don't get me wrong, I'd love full kyros and g12+ all the time. But I'm realistic. We all knew that wouldn't be the case.
1.) But to an earlier point this is only a money gate really. If you mod a Padme team that’s R4 exactly the same as one R5, the difference is negligible. Between G12 and R5? That I see the difference. So we agree but it’s just a difference on how lol. If that makes sense.
3.) That’s fine having an RNG factor. The problem is the pool of rewards itself. The absolute best you can get is a g12 full craft. Not a finisher or G12+ piece. A g12 base craft. That’s the best??? Ha! Then the infamous tank gear being in that pool? Oh please....
Honestly they should take the same structure as the OG pit before the sim. Some ranks got you 3 pieces and you had RNG. That’s all fine and dandy. However take out the tank raid gear. Take out the Mk3 holo’s, etc.
Make it a pool of let’s say all G12 gear with the full craft chances. Add in the highly desirable core gear like what they sell in those $5 and $10 packs. Then toss in the signal data stuff for relic materials as well as other relic salvage. Boom. A proper reward pool.
1. A 6 star g11 vader could solo hpit too easily. But you still needed 7 stars. So nothing new. Yes it's arbitrary and yes, I would like it lower or non existent but I don't make those decisions.
3. I actually find mk3 holo projectors to be quite useful for crafting relics so I'm fine with them being included. As far as the lack of g12+ gear, one of the things a lot of people have been clamoring for is to ease the pre-gear 12+ crunch. Adding this tier and leaving that gear out makes the pre gear 11 gear more likely. Sounds like CG gave the community what they h as very been asking for (at least for end game players). More gear to get toons to g11 so that g12+ and relics become the bottleneck.
If i'm reading that right, you're saying people asked to ease the G12 gear crunch - and that this, a raid that requires the absolute highest of the high - across the board of a guild - to complete, gives them that g12 gear - it's helping to ease the crunch?!?!?
That can't be what you're saying. I mean, what's the point of easing the crunch for people who've already passed that crunch point? NO ONE in a guild capable of doing this is having a G12 crunch problem.
Not true at all. It is an event tailored to a 50 person guild. That is one team per phase that can do 2%. So assuming the right team comps, you would only need 20 r5 characters to pull your fair share. I have nearly that many and the pre g12 crunch is nowhere near gone. Even if I and everyone in my guild has to r5 another 10 characters, it won't be.
Regardless of the G12 crunch or not, you don’t fix it by saying “get these toons to R5 first, then you can have a chance to get some G12 gear”
That may have been their idea, which I doubt based on who they are, but if that’s the case it’s a poor one at best. Still doesn’t justify the useless tank gear in there
Not saying I don't want g12+ gear too. Just that they likely like the g12+ bottleneck where it is and added lower gear because they want players to get more of it or to shut them up because they have been asking for more gear to get to g11.
As for the tank gear, if you add more of the pre g11 bottleneck gear and don't also add the gear players already get enough of, you potentially just create a new bottleneck at the low level. Similar to how they removed challenge gear from haat and then some players didn't have enough of the gold eyeballs.
The gold eyeballs are currently used 190 times by characters and are constantly being added.
As for this raids rewards? Dude...the prize pool is trash. Allow me to explain. For the itty bitty price of making your toons R5 just to even participate you get......
The mk10 weapon tech gear which is used 40 times and now has a third raid to be obtained in. It’s useless here.
The mk11 weapon tech gear which is used 65 times and is also easily obtainable as a regular in tank raids. It’s useless here.
The mk7 weapon tech gear which is used 81 times by characters but is crafted with, you guessed it, daily challenge gear and is also used mostly in g5/6 toons. Useless.
The mk8 weapon tech gear is used 135 times however is crafted through mk4 laptops and Mk3 callers which are in abundance from daily challenges. It’s also for g8-9 characters. That’s useless here.
The mk8 binocular salvage which is daily challenge gear. Useless here.
The mk9 data salvage which is daily challenge gear. Useless.
Mk7 BAW armor mod salvage. Used 32 times mostly for g5/6 progression. Useless.
Mk7 Nubian security scanners. Used 168 times but! For g9/10 progression.
I could keep going but you should get my point. After all that effort, getting rank 1, imagine your big reward being any of that trash gear above. Talk about flattening
You can also get fully crafted stun guns and kyros and other gear that can be useful. But feel free to cherry pick.
So you feel the chance being out there is good enough?
If this requires r5 to get in, the rewards better be things needed to get from r4 to r5..... or better yet.... things to get from r5 to r8
It depends on what the drop rates at good gear seems to be.
No it doesnt.
This is end game content, for end game players. It should reward end game items or things that get you to end game.
This having a higher drop rate than 0.0% for any player is just wrong as its not gear one needs.
Waiting to see how often it happens is missing the point, it shouldnt be there to begin with.
Ok good luck with that complaint. I assume that means you'll be sitting out the new raid if you think the gear is garbage.
I'll agree to disagree. If I get kyros and stun guns pretty frequently, I'm good with it.
Again you are missing it. You arent a Stormtrooper by any chance are you? (jk)
Im not saying that getting good rewards is bad, im saying the chance of you getting the bad ones should not be possible because they shouldnt be included in the pool of loot.
Its a lot like those mk1 stun guns in the galactic challenge.... just shouldnt be there.
Ok here's my thoughts so far. I didn't read all 10 pages so if what I think was already addressed sorry.
1. The r5 relic gate sucks but I think people are overreacting about it. You aren't likely going to beat it with low gear characters anyway.
2. I do think that they went overboard making GLs not be good for this raid. I completely get nerfing the siphon so SLKR isn't as good (he already solos the sith raid) but if the other GLs are supposed to be equal at least one of them (maybe one of the new ones) should be really good. It also is a bit disappointing if you relic 15 characters for GLs and then the GLs are are specially nerfed.
3. The rewards structure could be flatter but it is flatter than hstr so, I think the complaining on that is overblown. It does drop quite a bit from 1st to 10th but stays at about half in the top 25. That is better than a full drop in the top 10 and 10 or 15 salvage in 11th. And it looks like you have a chance at full crafts at every rank.
4. I do have a question on one of the mechanics. The stacking offense and speed that the boss gets for each 20% damage. Is that for 20% damage in one run or if it has taken 20% damage total? Basically, if I go in for my run and my guild has knocked it down to 75% health, will it have stacked offense and health or does that only happen if I hit 20% damage in one run. @Kyno@CG_Doja_Fett If you could clarify this it would be great.
1.) You aren’t likely to beat it with R7 either. The issue that you’re missing is also that the gear pool for reward boxes do not even come close to demanding R5 minimum just to go in and get whipped around like a rag doll.
2.) Bingo. Like always they overtuned the difficulty. It’s like lightside geo TB all over again.
3.) Saying a **** is cleaner than a different **** doesn’t make it any less of one. The reward pool for gear is garbage. The best gear in there is a full craft of old 12 gear. This is supposed to be endgame content yet this doesn’t even offer end game gear? No g12+? No relic materials? None of that?? Don’t even get me started about HAAT gear being included as well as gear that G6/g7 toons need...The fact that the ratio between ends of the ranking system is 11:1 for the new R8 material is also ridiculous.
4.) From what I’ve seen it stays. The damage boost is based on their current % of health so if someone goes in and they clear 20% of the health off, it’s now permanently more, which is ridiculous. Not to mention also preventing counters, healing, max protection gain, no TM reduction, 3x moves per turn with splash damage to a random toon....the list just goes on and on.
1. I'm not sure how you're mad about r5 being required and that below r5 toons would get destroyed. Like I said, I'm not a fan of the gear gate. But it isn't that big of a deal. It keeps me from sending my whole roster in to get .1% at a time but that is pretty tedious anyway. As far as it being difficult, from what I've seen R5 toons can get a couple percent before they die and that is in line with what it needs to be if 50 members are attacking.
3. A key thing to remember is they said flatter, not flat. The pretty decent rewards go down into the top 25 rather than the top 10 which is flatter. The 41-50 rewards flat out suck but I don't see that as a big problem. In the situation that some mentioned where everyone does roughly equal damage, then those spots shouldn't be the same people every time. In the situation where it is the same people every time, they are either in a guild that is pulling them along or refusing to put effort in. Either way, they aren't earning the top rewards.
4. I'm hoping for clarity from the debs on that one. Our guild used the 24hr join phase so we could plan a bit. How this mechanic actually works will make a difference.
I think it is intended to make getting more than 20% of a phase in a run nearly impossible. But if that's the case, it should reset after the run is over. If it does then it seems fine.
If it doesn't, then that creates an advantage for those hitting the early part of the phase and we likely need to send 10 10% teams or 20 5% teams in simultaneously.
Ahhhh someone that actually can hold a serious and intellectual conversation. Not being sarcastic btw lol. Anyway....
1.) I’m more mad that the R5 prevents any theory crafting really and forced a massive gear dump to even try this raid. It’s lazy design when you hope that R5 and better toons get just a little extra damage and that’s it. The mechanics is basically “forget all about strategy and theory craft. All you can do is kitchen sink this thing. Have fun holotable heroes!!”
3.) Flat or flatter. It’s not flat at all lol. And looking at MAW’s thread, the rewards are utter trash. You get a chance at a full base G12 gear piece. Cool. That’s the best you get for something that demands R5 to even try?? No relic material, no g12+ gear, no slicing materials...nada. It’s trash rewards all over. Not to mention more rank tank gear being added in. I digress, CG has no idea what their own economy in game looks like.
4.) That already got answered for you and it’s not what you wanted unfortunately. Gotta love lazy mechanics
1. I would also like to test my R3 amd r4 characters before I decide which to take to r5. It would be nice but compared to the mechanic in no 4, it is the smaller concern to me at least. A star or gear gate for raids is really nothing new. I would have loved to test a 3 star character in hstr before starring them also. To me this is more of the same. So I'll just have to let the krackens test it.
3. To be fair, they didn't promise flat. They promised flatter. And top 25 getting a decent amount of the r8 materials and the prize boxes dropping a chance at fully crafted gear is flatter in my opinion. As for the quality of the gear, there are stun guns and fully crafted kyros available in the gear drop. I think we need more than a few screenshots to decide if the gear part will be decent or not.
4. This is what I see as the biggest problem with the raid and it should be fixed to only ramp damage and speed for a single run and then reset.
1.) Yeah but the star level gates you to g11 and under. You get an idea of their kit and how it works still. Not to mention star level is no nearly as daunting of a task as it is to take someone from say g11 to R5. I just don’t like it at all. They payout vs reqs are just blah....
3.) They’re the ones that said flatter though and I still don’t see that. The R8 pieces are still over 2 to 1 on that. Then fall off a cliff even more.
Given their current groupings, I’d see it being fair of like 11, 10, 9, 8, 6, 3.
That would be flatter for those pieces. As for the rest...cmon man lol. There’s tank gear in there. You could just as easily pull a mk3 holo craft and mk10 weapon mod at rank 3 while someone else at rank 44 gets some G12 salvage and stun guns. It’s a crap structure and terrible reward pool.
4.) Oh it needs to be changed. Without a doubt. Honestly there’s a lot of things they need to change which is why it baffles me they still claim to constantly test as much as they claim.
1. The star gate or the relic gate both keep you from using that toon until you farm for awhile if you're not there. I think it is fair to compare to the time it took when hstr was new. If you didn't have the toon 7 stars, it took several months on a hard node to be able to use them in the raid. I can see what a 3 star moff gideon can do and hypothesize what he'll do in hstr but can't see for sure. That is very similar to seeing what my R3 padme can do and hypothesize what she can do in the new raid. It's not ideal but it's nothing new.
3. The relic materials could be flatter. They could also make it completely equal but they don't want to do so. I actually don't think it should be completely equal. But I'm also realistic. Assuming you get top 30 frequently, you'll get the relic 8 pieces about one a month. That isn't too bad and it gives you a goal to get better. As far as the chance if crappy gear, it's a raid. You've played this game for years now. Did you really think the gear wouldn't have an rng component? Don't get me wrong, I'd love full kyros and g12+ all the time. But I'm realistic. We all knew that wouldn't be the case.
1.) But to an earlier point this is only a money gate really. If you mod a Padme team that’s R4 exactly the same as one R5, the difference is negligible. Between G12 and R5? That I see the difference. So we agree but it’s just a difference on how lol. If that makes sense.
3.) That’s fine having an RNG factor. The problem is the pool of rewards itself. The absolute best you can get is a g12 full craft. Not a finisher or G12+ piece. A g12 base craft. That’s the best??? Ha! Then the infamous tank gear being in that pool? Oh please....
Honestly they should take the same structure as the OG pit before the sim. Some ranks got you 3 pieces and you had RNG. That’s all fine and dandy. However take out the tank raid gear. Take out the Mk3 holo’s, etc.
Make it a pool of let’s say all G12 gear with the full craft chances. Add in the highly desirable core gear like what they sell in those $5 and $10 packs. Then toss in the signal data stuff for relic materials as well as other relic salvage. Boom. A proper reward pool.
1. A 6 star g11 vader could solo hpit too easily. But you still needed 7 stars. So nothing new. Yes it's arbitrary and yes, I would like it lower or non existent but I don't make those decisions.
3. I actually find mk3 holo projectors to be quite useful for crafting relics so I'm fine with them being included. As far as the lack of g12+ gear, one of the things a lot of people have been clamoring for is to ease the pre-gear 12+ crunch. Adding this tier and leaving that gear out makes the pre gear 11 gear more likely. Sounds like CG gave the community what they h as very been asking for (at least for end game players). More gear to get toons to g11 so that g12+ and relics become the bottleneck.
If i'm reading that right, you're saying people asked to ease the G12 gear crunch - and that this, a raid that requires the absolute highest of the high - across the board of a guild - to complete, gives them that g12 gear - it's helping to ease the crunch?!?!?
That can't be what you're saying. I mean, what's the point of easing the crunch for people who've already passed that crunch point? NO ONE in a guild capable of doing this is having a G12 crunch problem.
Not true at all. It is an event tailored to a 50 person guild. That is one team per phase that can do 2%. So assuming the right team comps, you would only need 20 r5 characters to pull your fair share. I have nearly that many and the pre g12 crunch is nowhere near gone. Even if I and everyone in my guild has to r5 another 10 characters, it won't be.
Regardless of the G12 crunch or not, you don’t fix it by saying “get these toons to R5 first, then you can have a chance to get some G12 gear”
That may have been their idea, which I doubt based on who they are, but if that’s the case it’s a poor one at best. Still doesn’t justify the useless tank gear in there
Not saying I don't want g12+ gear too. Just that they likely like the g12+ bottleneck where it is and added lower gear because they want players to get more of it or to shut them up because they have been asking for more gear to get to g11.
As for the tank gear, if you add more of the pre g11 bottleneck gear and don't also add the gear players already get enough of, you potentially just create a new bottleneck at the low level. Similar to how they removed challenge gear from haat and then some players didn't have enough of the gold eyeballs.
The gold eyeballs are currently used 190 times by characters and are constantly being added.
As for this raids rewards? Dude...the prize pool is trash. Allow me to explain. For the itty bitty price of making your toons R5 just to even participate you get......
The mk10 weapon tech gear which is used 40 times and now has a third raid to be obtained in. It’s useless here.
The mk11 weapon tech gear which is used 65 times and is also easily obtainable as a regular in tank raids. It’s useless here.
The mk7 weapon tech gear which is used 81 times by characters but is crafted with, you guessed it, daily challenge gear and is also used mostly in g5/6 toons. Useless.
The mk8 weapon tech gear is used 135 times however is crafted through mk4 laptops and Mk3 callers which are in abundance from daily challenges. It’s also for g8-9 characters. That’s useless here.
The mk8 binocular salvage which is daily challenge gear. Useless here.
The mk9 data salvage which is daily challenge gear. Useless.
Mk7 BAW armor mod salvage. Used 32 times mostly for g5/6 progression. Useless.
Mk7 Nubian security scanners. Used 168 times but! For g9/10 progression.
I could keep going but you should get my point. After all that effort, getting rank 1, imagine your big reward being any of that trash gear above. Talk about flattening
You can also get fully crafted stun guns and kyros and other gear that can be useful. But feel free to cherry pick.
So you feel the chance being out there is good enough?
If this requires r5 to get in, the rewards better be things needed to get from r4 to r5..... or better yet.... things to get from r5 to r8
It depends on what the drop rates at good gear seems to be.
No it doesnt.
This is end game content, for end game players. It should reward end game items or things that get you to end game.
This having a higher drop rate than 0.0% for any player is just wrong as its not gear one needs.
Waiting to see how often it happens is missing the point, it shouldnt be there to begin with.
Ok good luck with that complaint. I assume that means you'll be sitting out the new raid if you think the gear is garbage.
I'll agree to disagree. If I get kyros and stun guns pretty frequently, I'm good with it.
Again you are missing it. You arent a Stormtrooper by any chance are you? (jk)
Im not saying that getting good rewards is bad, im saying the chance of you getting the bad ones should not be possible because they shouldnt be included in the pool of loot.
Its a lot like those mk1 stun guns in the galactic challenge.... just shouldnt be there.
They are only going to give out a certain amount of the good gear. With the bad gear in there too or without it, they will adjust the good gear where you still get the same amount over time.
For example with the bad gear you may get the 50 stun guns or equilivant once a month. If they remove the bad gear and you are guaranteed the stun gun or equivalent, then you would get 12 stun guns or equivalent each raid. That would still add up to 50 in a month roughly.
CG has decided how much useful gear they want to give out. That is the amount they will give out. We don't even know how much they will be giving out. The other gear is mostly just fluff to make the rewards look like more. It may bug you that it's there, but I don't care that it's there because I know that with or without it, the amount of useful gear will be the same.
As I said if it bugs you that they add fluff gear, then we can agree to disagree. It doesn't bug me.
With the bad gear in there too or without it, they will adjust the good gear where you still get the same amount over time.
Not exactly. The community still gets the same amount over time, but with garbage gear in there, somebody is going to get more garbage & less productive gear than average & somebody is going to get more. So you can't say "you" will still get the same amount. The **average** person will get the same amount, but will I be average? Above? Below? You can't say.
Like mods, it's just one more way to make things difficult for good players with bad luck.
What I would like to know. Except for MAW are there any other guilds who successfully did the Raid and what is the gp of the thoses guilds?
And what guilds tried unsuccessfully and what gp did they have?
Just to get an indication about the true "requirements" to finish the raid.
2 years that we are waiting for a new raid ... and it's again a nonsense.
CG always forget that challenging is not similar than discourage.
The good level would be to add 1 ou 2 intermediate tiers to the guilds which are not able to finish this level but that are already too strong to have a realy challenge on the HSTR.
Our guild is 235MPG, the HSTR is finish in 20 min but we will not be able to finish the gamorean.
Please create intermediate Tier so we can improve our guilds strategie and preparing the current level ... but with fun.
In the state of things we will just have some leaves and discouragments.
Show me where they said JML will be an amazing toon in raids. He'd be the first tank character, GL or otherwise, to achieve that feat.
Sorry, WHAT? Finn and JTR?
JML is clearly not designed for raids, and ppl knew this going in on purchasing him.
Again, what are you talking about? Was Teebo "designed for raids"? Or maybe Akbar? Yet they were playing very important role in the corresponding time. I doubt there are such things as "designed for raids" characters in this game. Ok, there is one or maybe even two (Aurra and Visas) but they failed in this, that characters wasn't used much because people discovered better teams. And THIS is one of the biggest problem here. The most successful raid teams aren't "designed" or even predicted by developers. They don't know what will or won't be good in the raids. And for several years, they don't learn.
Speaking on JML and tanks - what major role tanks have in essentially any MMORPG? Focusing fire on himself thus protecting party from majority of focused damage. Is JML designed to do this? Yes, absolutely. Does it works in raids? No. Why? See above - raids are designed in a bad way.
The usual way presumes that every character class have it's own role. Tanks are the only ones who can withstand massive damage, attackers must do massive damage, and support classes take care of buffing/debuffing/healing/control. Of course all roles are mixed in some degree, but I hope you see the point. Why do such designs exist, why do this roles exist at all? Because it helps to create predictable battlefield environments which can be controlled, by both developers and players. Developers understand what players could and couldn't do. Players have general ideas that they will need some combinations of tanks to focus fire on them, attackers to do actual damage, etc - a good starting point to begin with. And so on.
In this game? You don't have a clue. There are tanks who don't tank, supports and tanks as main damage dealers, attackers who hit less that healers, attackers who tank better than tanks, etc. Actual tanking either don't needed because any character could take hit from the boss and recover, or plain impossible because tanks die almost as fast as any others.
And developers, instead of designing raids around allowing people to use game mechanics in predictable way, do exactly opposite - in every next raid they cut off game mechanics which people learned to exploit in the last raid. Then people exploit some other mechanics or find more creative way to exploit existing, and it's cut off again.
And, returning to JML, the fact that the most powerful actual tank in the game can't fulfil his role in the fresh raid is the one of clearest indicators of bad raid design.
The new raid has a mechanic that everytime the boss drops bellow a 20% threshold, the raid becomes harder.
This seems to be a very big flaw or simply a bug in the raid.
By adding this mechanic, CG is forcing 50-players to be online at the exact same time, and to post scores at the exact time, something that condradicts the game philosophy from the past 5 years
I think this was initially meant to apply only to singular runs, so it prevents solo raid teams for a long time, but somehow it got added globally by mistake.
Can we please get an official comment if CG actually meant for 50 people to be online at the same time and sync scores on a mobile game?
How do you figure it is a bug when it is in the "Details" description of raid mechanics?
I agree that is seems unnecessary, as if the purpose of it was to prevent solos, it could have just applied in the last 20% with the same effect, not after every 20% health lost. But it is hard to argue that it is something unintended by the devs.
I mention it as a design bug, not a technical bug.
It's mentioned in the raid description, but it can mean that every singular run will force you to do 20% or less damage, to prevent you from soloing.
In design, there is an intention, and implementation.
If they attempted to prevent a solo, but ended up forcing 50 people online at the same time, then that's a design bug.
If they really wanted to get 50 people to cooperate for this raid, then there is no bug indeed.
That's why I want the comment from CG
Actually - that is very solid and reasonable question, since it determines the whole approach towards the raid. If it is intended - it force the direct cooperation and basically 50 people online at the same time. If it was intended "per run, per player" - it is a bug.
And, returning to JML, the fact that the most powerful actual tank in the game can't fulfil his role in the fresh raid is the one of clearest indicators of bad raid design.
Or a bad character design.
I mean they say he is the ultimate tank, but he is only a tank as a leader (or under Bastilla). Then you have to sacrifice all your allies abilities to spread your ulti with the jedi lessons, so there might be a small chance you get it.
To then realize it is mostly an art thing rather than buffing the character or the team. Again, he has to be a leader to access his ulti, fackin ridiculous imo.
Not a huge fan of the raid either especially the relic 5 requirement, but it is what it is.
Did i expect anything better after the Light side Geos? No.
I had some hopes for the game lately, but after the relic 8 and the raid i think there is no saving this shieet.
But the game is not built for me its built for the whales and it won't change.
Especially when we have people taking toons such as CUP and stuff like that to relic 8. This guy probably spent about 100 dollars to have some laughs on reddit.
The new raid has a mechanic that everytime the boss drops bellow a 20% threshold, the raid becomes harder.
This seems to be a very big flaw or simply a bug in the raid.
By adding this mechanic, CG is forcing 50-players to be online at the exact same time, and to post scores at the exact time, something that condradicts the game philosophy from the past 5 years
I think this was initially meant to apply only to singular runs, so it prevents solo raid teams for a long time, but somehow it got added globally by mistake.
Can we please get an official comment if CG actually meant for 50 people to be online at the same time and sync scores on a mobile game?
The mechanic was designed exactly the way it has been implemented. @Demerzel
This is not a bug and is 100% working as intended and designed. There was no other intention.
No you do need to be on at the same time, yes it is a benefit to coordinate, but no it is not 100% necessary.
1. The new art was exciting and when I saw the content I felt like it was reliving the sequels all over again....hopeful but then reality reminds you that it’s just a money grab with not real interesting content.
2. It seems like a lazy CG promotion. Again, going back to the sequels...”repackaged and mediocre.”
Looks like GC new system is just delaying reward payout and auto sim as advertised @Kyno. Its still a 1 and done mode. If you have the characters at the right gear you roll through, if not you can play more to try undergeared with strategy(today is a good example, 2 r7 an r6 and g11 with piett at g9 for me).
So as discussed yesterday, its nothing that makes it something for those guilds that cant beat this raid to do to play the game more
Replies
Its used to get to relic 8. They gave 2 new pieces of relic mat. You can craft one now... the other is exclusive to raid rewards.
You need 20 of each new material to get from r7 to r8
"0 tollerance" shares a similar definition to "flat" i guess.
yes and New GLs will be "on Par" with the old ones.
In the words of Inigo Montoya "You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means."
As I said earlier, it really depends on how often decent pieces drop. And it's hard to tell that at the moment.
But getting all mad that CG puts bad gear in with good gear on a raid or any other event is a waste of time. They don't care. They put it in there to keep the good gear at the level they want. Scream at the sky about it all you want. It won't change.
It depends on what the drop rates at good gear seems to be. Too early to tell that right now. But I do like that full kyros is an option.
You do know that CG puts the less desirable gear in there to make it look like you get more. If they remove it, that doesn't mean more great gear. Probably just less pieces of good gear more often and less full crafts. They will put gear economy where they want regardless of what I would like.
I would like a full kyro and a full stun gun every week but I know that isn't realistic.
That means the most effective way to fight is to line up all 50 guild members at the start of each phase and have them all battle simultaneously. Anything less than that is inefficient and makes the event even harder.
This effectively penalizes any guild which spans multiple timezones or is anything less than hardcore committed to the game. A terrible idea for a global game where guilds commonly span multiple timezones and even multiple continents.
Appreciate your effort and dedication to the game.
If you forget to go in airplane mode or enough ppl accidentally die and push the raid into the 80% threshold you screw over any members that are backing out to get better runs. It’s good that it’s a challenge but the increasing stats every 20% is probably unnecessary. If the raid mechanics stay the same then at the very least something needs to be done about the mats.
I think that over the next few weeks ppl will figure out the best teams to use and I personally got 6.6m using my JML Jedi, padme, cls, shakti clones and rey on my first run without too much trouble.
I think the biggest problems will continue to be about the mats, despite r8 not being a big deal right now.
No it doesnt.
This is end game content, for end game players. It should reward end game items or things that get you to end game.
This having a higher drop rate than 0.0% for any player is just wrong as its not gear one needs.
Waiting to see how often it happens is missing the point, it shouldnt be there to begin with.
Ok good luck with that complaint. I assume that means you'll be sitting out the new raid if you think the gear is garbage.
I'll agree to disagree. If I get kyros and stun guns pretty frequently, I'm good with it.
Again you are missing it. You arent a Stormtrooper by any chance are you? (jk)
Im not saying that getting good rewards is bad, im saying the chance of you getting the bad ones should not be possible because they shouldnt be included in the pool of loot.
Its a lot like those mk1 stun guns in the galactic challenge.... just shouldnt be there.
They are only going to give out a certain amount of the good gear. With the bad gear in there too or without it, they will adjust the good gear where you still get the same amount over time.
For example with the bad gear you may get the 50 stun guns or equilivant once a month. If they remove the bad gear and you are guaranteed the stun gun or equivalent, then you would get 12 stun guns or equivalent each raid. That would still add up to 50 in a month roughly.
CG has decided how much useful gear they want to give out. That is the amount they will give out. We don't even know how much they will be giving out. The other gear is mostly just fluff to make the rewards look like more. It may bug you that it's there, but I don't care that it's there because I know that with or without it, the amount of useful gear will be the same.
As I said if it bugs you that they add fluff gear, then we can agree to disagree. It doesn't bug me.
Not exactly. The community still gets the same amount over time, but with garbage gear in there, somebody is going to get more garbage & less productive gear than average & somebody is going to get more. So you can't say "you" will still get the same amount. The **average** person will get the same amount, but will I be average? Above? Below? You can't say.
Like mods, it's just one more way to make things difficult for good players with bad luck.
And what guilds tried unsuccessfully and what gp did they have?
Just to get an indication about the true "requirements" to finish the raid.
CG always forget that challenging is not similar than discourage.
The good level would be to add 1 ou 2 intermediate tiers to the guilds which are not able to finish this level but that are already too strong to have a realy challenge on the HSTR.
Our guild is 235MPG, the HSTR is finish in 20 min but we will not be able to finish the gamorean.
Please create intermediate Tier so we can improve our guilds strategie and preparing the current level ... but with fun.
In the state of things we will just have some leaves and discouragments.
So sad !
Sorry, WHAT? Finn and JTR?
Again, what are you talking about? Was Teebo "designed for raids"? Or maybe Akbar? Yet they were playing very important role in the corresponding time. I doubt there are such things as "designed for raids" characters in this game. Ok, there is one or maybe even two (Aurra and Visas) but they failed in this, that characters wasn't used much because people discovered better teams. And THIS is one of the biggest problem here. The most successful raid teams aren't "designed" or even predicted by developers. They don't know what will or won't be good in the raids. And for several years, they don't learn.
Speaking on JML and tanks - what major role tanks have in essentially any MMORPG? Focusing fire on himself thus protecting party from majority of focused damage. Is JML designed to do this? Yes, absolutely. Does it works in raids? No. Why? See above - raids are designed in a bad way.
The usual way presumes that every character class have it's own role. Tanks are the only ones who can withstand massive damage, attackers must do massive damage, and support classes take care of buffing/debuffing/healing/control. Of course all roles are mixed in some degree, but I hope you see the point. Why do such designs exist, why do this roles exist at all? Because it helps to create predictable battlefield environments which can be controlled, by both developers and players. Developers understand what players could and couldn't do. Players have general ideas that they will need some combinations of tanks to focus fire on them, attackers to do actual damage, etc - a good starting point to begin with. And so on.
In this game? You don't have a clue. There are tanks who don't tank, supports and tanks as main damage dealers, attackers who hit less that healers, attackers who tank better than tanks, etc. Actual tanking either don't needed because any character could take hit from the boss and recover, or plain impossible because tanks die almost as fast as any others.
And developers, instead of designing raids around allowing people to use game mechanics in predictable way, do exactly opposite - in every next raid they cut off game mechanics which people learned to exploit in the last raid. Then people exploit some other mechanics or find more creative way to exploit existing, and it's cut off again.
And, returning to JML, the fact that the most powerful actual tank in the game can't fulfil his role in the fresh raid is the one of clearest indicators of bad raid design.
This seems to be a very big flaw or simply a bug in the raid.
By adding this mechanic, CG is forcing 50-players to be online at the exact same time, and to post scores at the exact time, something that condradicts the game philosophy from the past 5 years
I think this was initially meant to apply only to singular runs, so it prevents solo raid teams for a long time, but somehow it got added globally by mistake.
Can we please get an official comment if CG actually meant for 50 people to be online at the same time and sync scores on a mobile game?
I agree that is seems unnecessary, as if the purpose of it was to prevent solos, it could have just applied in the last 20% with the same effect, not after every 20% health lost. But it is hard to argue that it is something unintended by the devs.
It's mentioned in the raid description, but it can mean that every singular run will force you to do 20% or less damage, to prevent you from soloing.
In design, there is an intention, and implementation.
If they attempted to prevent a solo, but ended up forcing 50 people online at the same time, then that's a design bug.
If they really wanted to get 50 people to cooperate for this raid, then there is no bug indeed.
That's why I want the comment from CG
Actually - that is very solid and reasonable question, since it determines the whole approach towards the raid. If it is intended - it force the direct cooperation and basically 50 people online at the same time. If it was intended "per run, per player" - it is a bug.
The mechanic was designed exactly the way it has been implemented. @Demerzel
This is not a bug and is 100% working as intended and designed. There was no other intention.
No you do need to be on at the same time, yes it is a benefit to coordinate, but no it is not 100% necessary.
1. The new art was exciting and when I saw the content I felt like it was reliving the sequels all over again....hopeful but then reality reminds you that it’s just a money grab with not real interesting content.
2. It seems like a lazy CG promotion. Again, going back to the sequels...”repackaged and mediocre.”
So as discussed yesterday, its nothing that makes it something for those guilds that cant beat this raid to do to play the game more