why did it warrant an announcement? - Because they are want to look into it, or "investigate" as they put it. Why is that a bad thing to announce? why shouldn't they announce about things that could push or change someone's decisions?
Just a couple days ago you were arguing that they can't announce things without first making a decision. Now you argue that they should be able to announce things without a decision? Very curious of you.
I have been saying they can't announce more than what they have, which is they are looking at it. which is what they said here........
They say something, without saying "everything" - that can only mean the worst case and that them saying something means its somehow a huge deal.
I did NOT say this. Do not put words in my mouth. I did not assume the worst case. I specifically said that it made me confused and worried. Because there are logical inferences one will draw.
it can't just be the reality, that they wanted to make players aware of something they want to look at, but dont have any firm anything, literally anything to say about it.
I specifically said this was NOT the issue. Why did you quote me?
we will have to agree to disagree about the "Hence uproar" (I think thats how you put it before). if them speaking leads "you" to frustration, then I'm pretty sure "you" dont want them to talk more, "you" probably want them to tell "you" what "you want to hear". unfortunately that is not going to be reality all the time, if ever, especially when things may need time to evaluate.
Oh good, patronizing insults, very constructive. I want them to communicate better. That's it. It's not hard.
why did it warrant an announcement? - Because they are want to look into it, or "investigate" as they put it. Why is that a bad thing to announce? why shouldn't they announce about things that could push or change someone's decisions?
Allow me to rephrase. Why does one person with God mods who got really great RNG soloing the easiest phase in the raid warrant an investigation?
what weight? they announced they are going to look into something. They have looked into other things involving new content before (even old content). They did not give this any more or less priority than anything else, did they?
I already answered this. An official announcement vs a comment buried in a mega thread. Less than 1 week after the issue surfaces versus a month after the issue surfaces. There is more to communication than the letters that appear on the page. Where they appear can give them prominence. How quickly they appear can convey urgency. And how long after they appear until they are redressed can convey apathy.
Can I ask why them looking into it implies anything other than they are looking into it? Can I ask why them examining the sentiment around the raid doesn't imply the same level of involvement imposed here?
I answered this above. Many others have done so as well. The manner in which the weekend announcement was communicated conveys more urgency (response time) and priority (prominence of the announcement). Further, the more time that passes without an update on the coordination investigation, the more likely it is that nothing will come of it. Are they still investigating Deathstorm in P3 HSR? They never told us the investigation was dead. But a rational person will assume, after enough time, that the no change is coming.
Have we reached that point with the coordination investigation? No. It's been a month. If nothing else is said about either of these issues in a month, I will consider them both on about equal footing. But in the meantime, they are not.
Yes, if you look at it as having malicious intent, you will find malicious intent. This all seems to have been taken out context and given a life of its own, and not because of lack of information, at best a lack of patience. IMO.
I did not suggest malicious intent (again, quit putting words in my mouth)--just incompetence, when it comes to communication.
I took nothing out of context. I am able to separate what they literally have said vs what I have inferred. I don't know nor do I claim that my inferences are correct. I hope they are not.
An effective communicator could have easily added 1 paragraph to their announcement to just re-iterate what Doja said here, that they are also looking into the coordination mechanic, because they know that is where our concerns lie. Boom! Just like that, the 2 issues are given the same level of exposure.
Would people still whine about the potential buff/nerf incoming? Yes, of course, it's the internet.
Would I have made a post accusing them of giving the player unfriendly issue more gravitas than the player friendly issue? NO.
Now, I was nice enough to address the points you actually made in your post. Perhaps you could be so kinds as to return the courtesy next time. Don't lump me in with these whiners that suggest their SLK is suddenly going to be worthless because of an investigation into a raid solo. Or that their guilty of a crime (bait and switch gets tossed around here with reckless abandon). I am whining about poor communication.
They say something, without saying "everything" - that can only mean the worst case and that them saying something means its somehow a huge deal.
I did NOT say this. Do not put words in my mouth. I did not assume the worst case. I specifically said that it made me confused and worried. Because there are logical inferences one will draw.
I was not putting words in your mouth. I was giving examples of common threads or lines of thinking on the forum, that was not specifically stated to you saying that.
The logical inference is that they are going to look into this, based on what they said. Other conclusions from that, seem to be tending towards the negative with no basis in what was posted. but again, no directly related to you, if it were I would have quoted. I am talking in generalities, as you have been trying to point out that everything is based on them not giving enough information.
Why did the P1 solo warrant an announcement at all?
Why was this announcement given so much weight relative to the other issues that negatively affect players?
The former implies that they may be making changes to buff P1 and/or nerf SLK, both of which are not player friendly.
The latter implies that this "issue" is higher priority to the devs than the resolutions that would be player friendly.
And finally, the lack of clarity leads to the speculation above, which leads to frustration.
Here you are saying what the issues are, and pulling implications from that, but as I said (which is why I quoted you) the reality is simply they just wanted to make players aware they are going to look at something. that is why it warranted an announcement, and they didn't give it any weight.
we will have to agree to disagree about the "Hence uproar" (I think thats how you put it before). if them speaking leads "you" to frustration, then I'm pretty sure "you" dont want them to talk more, "you" probably want them to tell "you" what "you want to hear". unfortunately that is not going to be reality all the time, if ever, especially when things may need time to evaluate.
Oh good, patronizing insults, very constructive. I want them to communicate better. That's it. It's not hard.
I'm sorry if you find this insulting, I will work on that, as that was not my intent. some level of them communicating better, is communicating more on issues that come up. that cannot always include details that you are seeking, and them not talking because they dont have the ability to share details at that moment, is what we have now, where little is said about things.
Unfortunately this is a "pick a lane" type of situation, we cannot have better communication without some quick none detailed posts, giving a heads up on a situation that is going to be looked at. So either they start talking, in an attempt to push things towards getting better, or they only talk when they have "all the details" and we accept they are going to talk less. Most players have been complaining about them talking less for a while. I would think that more communication on issues that come up, when they come up would be better than not.
why did it warrant an announcement? - Because they are want to look into it, or "investigate" as they put it. Why is that a bad thing to announce? why shouldn't they announce about things that could push or change someone's decisions?
Allow me to rephrase. Why does one person with God mods who got really great RNG soloing the easiest phase in the raid warrant an investigation?
Do we know they have all the information at hand at this moment? maybe part of this investigation is about verifying that this is a 2% chance vs a 45% chance for players. again, maybe the announcement is about making people aware that a change may be coming due to plans to change the coordination mechanic, but can't say that because that commits them to a change they are not ready to commit to, as we have discussed. This is the safest way for them to announce that and raise the flag.
what weight? they announced they are going to look into something. They have looked into other things involving new content before (even old content). They did not give this any more or less priority than anything else, did they?
I already answered this. An official announcement vs a comment buried in a mega thread. Less than 1 week after the issue surfaces versus a month after the issue surfaces. There is more to communication than the letters that appear on the page. Where they appear can give them prominence. How quickly they appear can convey urgency. And how long after they appear until they are redressed can convey apathy.
So we can agree they didn't assign it any priority? because there is no mega thread on this topic, where should he have put that information?
Can I ask why them looking into it implies anything other than they are looking into it? Can I ask why them examining the sentiment around the raid doesn't imply the same level of involvement imposed here?
I answered this above. Many others have done so as well. The manner in which the weekend announcement was communicated conveys more urgency (response time) and priority (prominence of the announcement). Further, the more time that passes without an update on the coordination investigation, the more likely it is that nothing will come of it. Are they still investigating Deathstorm in P3 HSR? They never told us the investigation was dead. But a rational person will assume, after enough time, that the no change is coming.
Have we reached that point with the coordination investigation? No. It's been a month. If nothing else is said about either of these issues in a month, I will consider them both on about equal footing. But in the meantime, they are not.
So them taking a more urgent response to protect players from making a "bad investment" due to a potential change is a bad thing?
Where they post something like this could have more to do with the urgency, making sure players see it, since its meant to be a "flag" to make players aware. They do that in a mega when there is one, and sometimes pull out of a mega to make a larger awareness. this doesn't' necessary make it a higher priority than any other thing, as far as the work on their end is concerned. (This is one example of the negative straw pulling I mentioned)
yes things can take time, its an unfortunate reality.
Yes, if you look at it as having malicious intent, you will find malicious intent. This all seems to have been taken out context and given a life of its own, and not because of lack of information, at best a lack of patience. IMO.
I did not suggest malicious intent (again, quit putting words in my mouth)--just incompetence, when it comes to communication.
I took nothing out of context. I am able to separate what they literally have said vs what I have inferred. I don't know nor do I claim that my inferences are correct. I hope they are not.
An effective communicator could have easily added 1 paragraph to their announcement to just re-iterate what Doja said here, that they are also looking into the coordination mechanic, because they know that is where our concerns lie. Boom! Just like that, the 2 issues are given the same level of exposure.
Would people still whine about the potential buff/nerf incoming? Yes, of course, it's the internet.
Would I have made a post accusing them of giving the player unfriendly issue more gravitas than the player friendly issue? NO.
Now, I was nice enough to address the points you actually made in your post. Perhaps you could be so kinds as to return the courtesy next time. Don't lump me in with these whiners that suggest their SLK is suddenly going to be worthless because of an investigation into a raid solo. Or that their guilty of a crime (bait and switch gets tossed around here with reckless abandon). I am whining about poor communication.
That is not putting words in your mouth. You are suggesting that the only 2 possibilities or at least the only 2 you list, are both negative towards the players, you seem to be assuming malice in their actions.
yes, Boom....and as I said, that seems to be one of those "they didn't say what I wanted" things. They already know that, and have expressed that, they dont need to "expose" the players to their own sentiment. They are making them aware of actions that are going to be taken on their side. That would have been off the topic and changed nothing, nor done anything to the situation (except you, as you have said)
I appreciate that you can recognize that you would have felt better about this and maybe not made a post about player negative changes, but effective communication is also knowing your audience, not just a person out in row 48 seat G, and even if you do, you are trying to strike a balance. If they need to make a "quick post" at an inopportune time, it will be limited in scope and likely breadth.
I do not group you in with anyone, and I understand where you are coming from as my response did also point to generalities, because there are a lot of things that go on here, and they are connected, even when you are not directly speaking to them.
I understand your point about communication, but I also feel that its a process and a path, missteps, wrong directions, and even the occasional skinned knee are to be expected. In a furtherance to that goal, I would see any fair attempt at that to be an opportunity to keep an even keel on the situation and look at if from all sides. You are more fair than most, but I hope you can see that you may be coming at this from a more negative side than was warranted from that post. Not everything can be attribute to a lack of information in a simple post.
They need to just fix the gate issue with global time requirements to be online at the same time. Forget the SLKR solo thing and start the Challenge Tank Raid. It’s not like they had to put a lot of effort into this raid. They did nothing except ramp up some damage mechanics. There’s no new graphics or story here. They probably had this thing sitting for a while waiting to release the next gear gate. I wouldn’t be surprised if the challenge Tank wasn’t already done. They need barely any work since they don’t test things before they release anyway.
I appreciate all of the features you've worked on to make SWGOH such an enduringly interesting game, but the coordination problem with the Challenge Pit is the single biggest flaw I've ever seen in the game, and I think fixing it would help your bottom line.
Here's why: in guilds within reach of beating the raid in the near future, you've not only burdened guild leaders and officers with a logistical nightmare, you've also put them in a position where they need to repeatedly explain to their guilds how this raid can be ruined for the entire guild by a single player posting damage at an inopportune time, how wherever they live in the world, they need to be available to play a game at exactly the same time and perhaps even keep their phones from receiving calls and texts during the raid. All that naturally sounds ridiculous and unreasonable, which means the raid serves as an engine for ongoing negative press for the game. As a guild leader myself, I'd much rather have positive news to share. I enjoy actually playing the raid, but trying to organize and educate for it is simply awful. This is a mobile game. Is it too much to ask for players and guilds not to be penalized for attacking the raid at diverse times throughout the day?
I know this may not be a problem for the elite guilds (though the prize distribution no doubt is), but they're not the only ones spending money. Fixing the raid would be a win-win. Players will appreciate it, and you'll doubtless profit from it too.
You are suggesting that the only 2 possibilities or at least the only 2 you list, are both negative towards the players, you seem to be assuming malice in their actions.
Then I am not communicating well and should not be in charge of PR (I am not IRL, thank God).
Let me try to rephrase again. I really am not trying to call CG evil here. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes with the raid. And in the absence of knowing, I am drawing inferences. Those inferences have given me angst.
Is that my problem? Yes
Am I the only one who reacted the same way? I don't think so
Could CG communicate more and/or better? Yes
Could CG communicate less and/or worse? Yes
Would better communication lead to less speculation and angst on my part? Yes
Is CG malicious for not communicating more? No
Are my inferences proof of malicious intent by CG? No
And, as I have also said, if enough time passes from this last announcement, with no further information or action, I will consider them more on even footing. But for now, there are differences. And those differences are what upsets me.
Hopefully that provided clarity rather than just further muddying of the waters
You may need to be more specific, but I will take a guess.
There is no issue, they are just looking into what is happing in P1 with that particular team/video.
As for any furthering of that or other things they are looking at: They will not make any further announcements until they have more to say about the situation, which will likely have to wait until any decisions are made.
You may need to be more specific, but I will take a guess.
There is no issue, they are just looking into what is happing in P1 with that particular team/video.
As for any furthering of that or other things they are looking at: They will not make any further announcements until they have more to say about the situation, which will likely have to wait until any decisions are made.
Just strange Doja hasn’t said anything regarding the community backlash. But yeah I agree.
why did it warrant an announcement? - Because they are want to look into it, or "investigate" as they put it. Why is that a bad thing to announce? why shouldn't they announce about things that could push or change someone's decisions?
You know the answer if you've been present during historical nerfs.
CASE
WHEN CG makes an announcement that they are investigating a mechanic that results in a squad doing better in an event than CG anticipated
THEN CG may nerf some portion of that mechanic
END
I would point out, that CG has NEVER announced an investigation into some raid mechanic that allowed players to perform better than CG expected, and then enhanced that mechanic. Right? So there is no positive outcome that will result from their investigation. Only a neutral or negative outcome is forthcoming.
This is the answer to your line of questioning.
The most positive outcome that I recall was when CG announced it would let remain the Jawa bomb mechanic that killed the bug squad. They didn't nerf that. They decided to let it go. They didn't improve on it.
But they didn't nerf it, either. Neutral outcome. Perhaps there were others that I forget, in the history of CG "fixing" or "letting remain" unexpected mechanics that benefitted players.
CG wants new events to last a long time, to earn more gross revenue over time. We get that. They showed us their mettle with LSGTB. Fine.
But when they nerf mechanics uncovered by players, the action is predatory towards players. When CG releases tough content, the best go to work, solving the challenges. That's human nature for people motivated by these challenges. These players go to lengths to figure out the best way to accomplish the new, challenging task. But then, in certain cases, CG slaps them on the wrist, proverbially, by nerfing the mechanics that enable such accomplishments.
Announcing an investigation is, historically, a precursor to a mechanic nerf. It's not a neutral event to announce such an investigation. It's seen as negative because it historically IS negative. And as I argued above, it is never positive.
Instead of rewarding players' positive work - work that helps the whole player base and makes us feel like a community - CG disenfranchises those players and discourages the rest of us from trying. The announcement is the first step.
CG could approach these things differently. If CG had a more frequent development lifecycle, they wouldn't have to worry about us breaking their stuff too fast. If they produced more playable content, more frequently, they could encourage and reward the creative, problem-solving spirit that's natural to the player base. And thereby engender trust and fun in the game and the brand.
Hope that helps clarify why the announcement is considered a bad thing.
I would point out, that CG has NEVER announced an investigation into some raid mechanic that allowed players to perform better than CG expected, and then enhanced that mechanic. Right? So there is no positive outcome that will result from their investigation. Only a neutral or negative outcome is forthcoming.
While I agree with the bulk of your post, this portion is not quite true. When tank launched normal tank was tested with super mods, and so had a ridiculous health pool. There was an announcement, and ultimately they severely nerfed the health pool.
And not sure if they were announced, but there have been 2 changes to STR mechanics that were beneficial to players that I can recall (change to DN's annihilate timing, DN will now call adds back after enrage), as well as a change to Rex's big boomer in raids.
why did it warrant an announcement? - Because they are want to look into it, or "investigate" as they put it. Why is that a bad thing to announce? why shouldn't they announce about things that could push or change someone's decisions?
You know the answer if you've been present during historical nerfs.
CASE
WHEN CG makes an announcement that they are investigating a mechanic that results in a squad doing better in an event than CG anticipated
THEN CG may nerf some portion of that mechanic
END
I would point out, that CG has NEVER announced an investigation into some raid mechanic that allowed players to perform better than CG expected, and then enhanced that mechanic. Right? So there is no positive outcome that will result from their investigation. Only a neutral or negative outcome is forthcoming.
This is the answer to your line of questioning.
The most positive outcome that I recall was when CG announced it would let remain the Jawa bomb mechanic that killed the bug squad. They didn't nerf that. They decided to let it go. They didn't improve on it.
But they didn't nerf it, either. Neutral outcome. Perhaps there were others that I forget, in the history of CG "fixing" or "letting remain" unexpected mechanics that benefitted players.
CG wants new events to last a long time, to earn more gross revenue over time. We get that. They showed us their mettle with LSGTB. Fine.
But when they nerf mechanics uncovered by players, the action is predatory towards players. When CG releases tough content, the best go to work, solving the challenges. That's human nature for people motivated by these challenges. These players go to lengths to figure out the best way to accomplish the new, challenging task. But then, in certain cases, CG slaps them on the wrist, proverbially, by nerfing the mechanics that enable such accomplishments.
Announcing an investigation is, historically, a precursor to a mechanic nerf. It's not a neutral event to announce such an investigation. It's seen as negative because it historically IS negative. And as I argued above, it is never positive.
Instead of rewarding players' positive work - work that helps the whole player base and makes us feel like a community - CG disenfranchises those players and discourages the rest of us from trying. The announcement is the first step.
CG could approach these things differently. If CG had a more frequent development lifecycle, they wouldn't have to worry about us breaking their stuff too fast. If they produced more playable content, more frequently, they could encourage and reward the creative, problem-solving spirit that's natural to the player base. And thereby engender trust and fun in the game and the brand.
Hope that helps clarify why the announcement is considered a bad thing.
sure, if you only look at the history of nerfs. There have been many announcements about things, even about investigating things, and when you look at those as a whole there is a myriad of outcomes.
but you did not answer my line of questioning, you answered why you (and maybe others) could find the subject of the announcement bad, but not "why its a bad thing to make an announcement?" they should strive more to announce their intent to do things if they are going to (and do it before they do), wouldn't you agree?
just because some players will view the idea as negative, does that mean they should not try to raise a flag about investing into something that may change, so players can make informed decisions?
and I'm half joking here, but do you mean a faster lifecycle, like GCs (and possibly Conquest), frequent and changing puzzles that players are posting and discussing strategies????
The SLK p1 solo is only possible because of an unintended consequence of CG's attempt to nerf GLs in the raid. If CG is determined to address this in a way that makes a phase solo impossible, they should also address, at the same time, the way that the ramping damage each phase results in the presumably unintended consequence of creating incompatible incentives for players to communicate and to use airplane mode (thus also disabling the use of phones as phones). If CG addresses the coordination issue, I see no reason why they couldn't also address the p1 mechanic that makes a solo possible, especially if it brings SLK results from p1 in line with p2 & 3 results so it's not a controversial issue for guilds to decide who gets to use SLK in p1 for max rewards.
The SLK p1 solo is only possible because of an unintended consequence of CG's attempt to nerf GLs in the raid. If CG is determined to address this in a way that makes a phase solo impossible, they should also address, at the same time, the way that the ramping damage each phase results in the presumably unintended consequence of creating incompatible incentives for players to communicate and to use airplane mode (thus also disabling the use of phones as phones). If CG addresses the coordination issue, I see no reason why they couldn't also address the p1 mechanic that makes a solo possible, especially if it brings SLK results from p1 in line with p2 & 3 results so it's not a controversial issue for guilds to decide who gets to use SLK in p1 for max rewards.
everything here (except the first line) makes perfect sense, and I think many agree with this general sentiment.
I dont think the last line is realistic, as the first phase in each raid has always been the easiest to master and figure out.
While I agree with the bulk of your post, this portion is not quite true. When tank launched normal tank was tested with super mods, and so had a ridiculous health pool. There was an announcement, and ultimately they severely nerfed the health pool.
And not sure if they were announced, but there have been 2 changes to STR mechanics that were beneficial to players that I can recall (change to DN's annihilate timing, DN will now call adds back after enrage), as well as a change to Rex's big boomer in raids.
Thank you for correcting my incorrect historical observation! I wasn't active on the forums when Haat launched, so I was unaware of that development. I appreciate you bringing your knowledge to the table.
A guildmate pointed out the HAAT raid nerf and what you said about STR as well. Kudos to you both, sincerely. I'm not sure whether the STR changes were announced, either.
Humans tend to overemphasize the negative over the positive experiences, so I believe the majority of my argument still holds water.
While I agree with the bulk of your post, this portion is not quite true. When tank launched normal tank was tested with super mods, and so had a ridiculous health pool. There was an announcement, and ultimately they severely nerfed the health pool.
And not sure if they were announced, but there have been 2 changes to STR mechanics that were beneficial to players that I can recall (change to DN's annihilate timing, DN will now call adds back after enrage), as well as a change to Rex's big boomer in raids.
Humans tend to overemphasize the negative over the positive experiences, so I believe the majority of my argument still holds water.
Again, thanks for your help.
your not human?!?! xD
But yes people do tend to remember negative over positive's 10000000000% of the time
“But you know what I always say: Speak softly and drive a big tank.”
your not human?!?! xD
But yes people do tend to remember negative over positive's 10000000000% of the time
LOL quite human. My original flawed post as evidence :P
I'm also among those who mostly recall the negative. you know... like most humans... hahah
Love your comment, friend. Thanks for a good-natured ribbing.
Of course! I come onto this thread every now and then to see whats going on, and it's normally pretty negative and boring but I decided to brighten things up a little today (hopefully). Glad you appreciate my comment!
And jeez...82 pages? All they need to fix is making there be more and better rewards (similar to HSTR but a little more since its way more difficult atm), communication issues (maybe leave it how it is now but instead of making people use third-party sources to communicate times make a better communication system in game), and that's mostly all I can think of, maybe add a new raid exclusive toon? Idk but those are the big issues Ive seen.
But that's all my opinion. Agree or disagree if you like.
“But you know what I always say: Speak softly and drive a big tank.”
While I agree with the bulk of your post, this portion is not quite true. When tank launched normal tank was tested with super mods, and so had a ridiculous health pool. There was an announcement, and ultimately they severely nerfed the health pool.
And not sure if they were announced, but there have been 2 changes to STR mechanics that were beneficial to players that I can recall (change to DN's annihilate timing, DN will now call adds back after enrage), as well as a change to Rex's big boomer in raids.
Thank you for correcting my incorrect historical observation! I wasn't active on the forums when Haat launched, so I was unaware of that development. I appreciate you bringing your knowledge to the table.
A guildmate pointed out the HAAT raid nerf and what you said about STR as well. Kudos to you both, sincerely. I'm not sure whether the STR changes were announced, either.
Humans tend to overemphasize the negative over the positive experiences, so I believe the majority of my argument still holds water.
Again, thanks for your help.
They definitely announced the DR annihilate timing change in HSTR.
I don’t think they announced DR calling sides after enrage, though.
While I agree with the bulk of your post, this portion is not quite true. When tank launched normal tank was tested with super mods, and so had a ridiculous health pool. There was an announcement, and ultimately they severely nerfed the health pool.
And not sure if they were announced, but there have been 2 changes to STR mechanics that were beneficial to players that I can recall (change to DN's annihilate timing, DN will now call adds back after enrage), as well as a change to Rex's big boomer in raids.
Thank you for correcting my incorrect historical observation! I wasn't active on the forums when Haat launched, so I was unaware of that development. I appreciate you bringing your knowledge to the table.
A guildmate pointed out the HAAT raid nerf and what you said about STR as well. Kudos to you both, sincerely. I'm not sure whether the STR changes were announced, either.
Humans tend to overemphasize the negative over the positive experiences, so I believe the majority of my argument still holds water.
Again, thanks for your help.
They definitely announced the DR annihilate timing change in HSTR.
I don’t think they announced DR calling sides after enrage, though.
I don't like letting this issue simmer. I don't yet know the outcome of the SLKR solo issue, nor what if any changes are coming to the CT Raid so there's not much I can update y'all on at this point. I really wish I had more for you because I'm seeing a lot of speculation and concern over "nerfs" etc. and I'd like to assuage some of those concerns as soon as possible. But, I simply can't give you the definitive news you'd like at this point because I don't have it either. Bear with me as I continue to ask about these issues on a daily basis. Progress is being made. What the final outcome will be is uncertain for now.
I know you're frustrated. Just know I'm not going to shy away from being as open as possible and doing my part to be the conduit between players and devs to the best of my ability.
There will be periods of time (sometimes lasting longer than either of us like) in which I won't have much to say on a subject because there isn't a definitive outcome. This is one of those times and hopefully it'll be resolved one way or another, and sooner than later.
I understand this post doesn't solve anything, but it's all I got for now.
I don't like letting this issue simmer. I don't yet know the outcome of the SLKR solo issue, nor what if any changes are coming to the CT Raid so there's not much I can update y'all on at this point. I really wish I had more for you because I'm seeing a lot of speculation and concern over "nerfs" etc. and I'd like to assuage some of those concerns as soon as possible. But, I simply can't give you the definitive news you'd like at this point because I don't have it either. Bear with me as I continue to ask about these issues on a daily basis. Progress is being made. What the final outcome will be is uncertain for now.
I know you're frustrated. Just know I'm not going to shy away from being as open as possible and doing my part to be the conduit between players and devs to the best of my ability.
There will be periods of time (sometimes lasting longer than either of us like) in which I won't have much to say on a subject because there isn't a definitive outcome. This is one of those times and hopefully it'll be resolved one way or another, and sooner than later.
I understand this post doesn't solve anything, but it's all I got for now.
Lol. I thought your original post was a well contrived troll. Unfortunate.
I don't like letting this issue simmer. I don't yet know the outcome of the SLKR solo issue, nor what if any changes are coming to the CT Raid so there's not much I can update y'all on at this point. I really wish I had more for you because I'm seeing a lot of speculation and concern over "nerfs" etc. and I'd like to assuage some of those concerns as soon as possible. But, I simply can't give you the definitive news you'd like at this point because I don't have it either. Bear with me as I continue to ask about these issues on a daily basis. Progress is being made. What the final outcome will be is uncertain for now.
I know you're frustrated. Just know I'm not going to shy away from being as open as possible and doing my part to be the conduit between players and devs to the best of my ability.
There will be periods of time (sometimes lasting longer than either of us like) in which I won't have much to say on a subject because there isn't a definitive outcome. This is one of those times and hopefully it'll be resolved one way or another, and sooner than later.
I understand this post doesn't solve anything, but it's all I got for now.
Thanks Doja, we appreciate the update at least. Is there any thoughts of changing the coordination issue? I know for me and my guild that is the biggest frustration. To reiterate I appreciate the communication and the updates, albeit without much information.
I don't like letting this issue simmer. I don't yet know the outcome of the SLKR solo issue, nor what if any changes are coming to the CT Raid so there's not much I can update y'all on at this point. I really wish I had more for you because I'm seeing a lot of speculation and concern over "nerfs" etc. and I'd like to assuage some of those concerns as soon as possible. But, I simply can't give you the definitive news you'd like at this point because I don't have it either. Bear with me as I continue to ask about these issues on a daily basis. Progress is being made. What the final outcome will be is uncertain for now.
I know you're frustrated. Just know I'm not going to shy away from being as open as possible and doing my part to be the conduit between players and devs to the best of my ability.
There will be periods of time (sometimes lasting longer than either of us like) in which I won't have much to say on a subject because there isn't a definitive outcome. This is one of those times and hopefully it'll be resolved one way or another, and sooner than later.
I understand this post doesn't solve anything, but it's all I got for now.
I appreciate you a ton. It can't be an easy job being the face of one of the worst companies in the industry, and only doing it to support your family. It's kinda like being the press secretary for the last US president. I can imagine it's very stressful.
I wouldn’t call CG one of the worst companies. Let’s be honest, we give them a lot of criticism, but I’m sure their jobs are hard, and none of us know what it’s like to work there. I think CG does their best, which at the end of the day is all anyone can do. That being said I also love SWGoH so I might be biased 😀
I don't like letting this issue simmer. I don't yet know the outcome of the SLKR solo issue, nor what if any changes are coming to the CT Raid so there's not much I can update y'all on at this point. I really wish I had more for you because I'm seeing a lot of speculation and concern over "nerfs" etc. and I'd like to assuage some of those concerns as soon as possible. But, I simply can't give you the definitive news you'd like at this point because I don't have it either. Bear with me as I continue to ask about these issues on a daily basis. Progress is being made. What the final outcome will be is uncertain for now.
I know you're frustrated. Just know I'm not going to shy away from being as open as possible and doing my part to be the conduit between players and devs to the best of my ability.
There will be periods of time (sometimes lasting longer than either of us like) in which I won't have much to say on a subject because there isn't a definitive outcome. This is one of those times and hopefully it'll be resolved one way or another, and sooner than later.
I understand this post doesn't solve anything, but it's all I got for now.
Thanks, Doja for doing what you can. It's absolutely unsatisfactory that the Dev's (Eric, Tophat, or Mark) have not come to the forums to quell, or at least try to quell the community. It just shows their disdain for the community that they can't take the time to post after this long. My only question at this point is why.
I don't like letting this issue simmer. I don't yet know the outcome of the SLKR solo issue, nor what if any changes are coming to the CT Raid so there's not much I can update y'all on at this point. I really wish I had more for you because I'm seeing a lot of speculation and concern over "nerfs" etc. and I'd like to assuage some of those concerns as soon as possible. But, I simply can't give you the definitive news you'd like at this point because I don't have it either. Bear with me as I continue to ask about these issues on a daily basis. Progress is being made. What the final outcome will be is uncertain for now.
I know you're frustrated. Just know I'm not going to shy away from being as open as possible and doing my part to be the conduit between players and devs to the best of my ability.
There will be periods of time (sometimes lasting longer than either of us like) in which I won't have much to say on a subject because there isn't a definitive outcome. This is one of those times and hopefully it'll be resolved one way or another, and sooner than later.
I understand this post doesn't solve anything, but it's all I got for now.
Thanks, Doja for doing what you can. It's absolutely unsatisfactory that the Dev's (Eric, Tophat, or Mark) have not come to the forums to quell, or at least try to quell the community. It just shows their disdain for the community that they can't take the time to post after this long. My only question at this point is why.
Why are they absent?
What does Tophat have to do with this, he’s in charge of SOTG and RA right?
Replies
I have been saying they can't announce more than what they have, which is they are looking at it. which is what they said here........
I never said they couldn't announce things.
I did NOT say this. Do not put words in my mouth. The presumption that there is nothing between what we get and "everything" is absurd.
I did NOT say this. Do not put words in my mouth. I did not assume the worst case. I specifically said that it made me confused and worried. Because there are logical inferences one will draw.
I specifically said this was NOT the issue. Why did you quote me?
Oh good, patronizing insults, very constructive. I want them to communicate better. That's it. It's not hard.
Allow me to rephrase. Why does one person with God mods who got really great RNG soloing the easiest phase in the raid warrant an investigation?
I already answered this. An official announcement vs a comment buried in a mega thread. Less than 1 week after the issue surfaces versus a month after the issue surfaces. There is more to communication than the letters that appear on the page. Where they appear can give them prominence. How quickly they appear can convey urgency. And how long after they appear until they are redressed can convey apathy.
I answered this above. Many others have done so as well. The manner in which the weekend announcement was communicated conveys more urgency (response time) and priority (prominence of the announcement). Further, the more time that passes without an update on the coordination investigation, the more likely it is that nothing will come of it. Are they still investigating Deathstorm in P3 HSR? They never told us the investigation was dead. But a rational person will assume, after enough time, that the no change is coming.
Have we reached that point with the coordination investigation? No. It's been a month. If nothing else is said about either of these issues in a month, I will consider them both on about equal footing. But in the meantime, they are not.
I did not suggest malicious intent (again, quit putting words in my mouth)--just incompetence, when it comes to communication.
I took nothing out of context. I am able to separate what they literally have said vs what I have inferred. I don't know nor do I claim that my inferences are correct. I hope they are not.
An effective communicator could have easily added 1 paragraph to their announcement to just re-iterate what Doja said here, that they are also looking into the coordination mechanic, because they know that is where our concerns lie. Boom! Just like that, the 2 issues are given the same level of exposure.
Would people still whine about the potential buff/nerf incoming? Yes, of course, it's the internet.
Would I have made a post accusing them of giving the player unfriendly issue more gravitas than the player friendly issue? NO.
Now, I was nice enough to address the points you actually made in your post. Perhaps you could be so kinds as to return the courtesy next time. Don't lump me in with these whiners that suggest their SLK is suddenly going to be worthless because of an investigation into a raid solo. Or that their guilty of a crime (bait and switch gets tossed around here with reckless abandon). I am whining about poor communication.
I was not putting words in your mouth. I was giving examples of common threads or lines of thinking on the forum, that was not specifically stated to you saying that.
The logical inference is that they are going to look into this, based on what they said. Other conclusions from that, seem to be tending towards the negative with no basis in what was posted. but again, no directly related to you, if it were I would have quoted. I am talking in generalities, as you have been trying to point out that everything is based on them not giving enough information.
Here you are saying what the issues are, and pulling implications from that, but as I said (which is why I quoted you) the reality is simply they just wanted to make players aware they are going to look at something. that is why it warranted an announcement, and they didn't give it any weight.
I'm sorry if you find this insulting, I will work on that, as that was not my intent. some level of them communicating better, is communicating more on issues that come up. that cannot always include details that you are seeking, and them not talking because they dont have the ability to share details at that moment, is what we have now, where little is said about things.
Unfortunately this is a "pick a lane" type of situation, we cannot have better communication without some quick none detailed posts, giving a heads up on a situation that is going to be looked at. So either they start talking, in an attempt to push things towards getting better, or they only talk when they have "all the details" and we accept they are going to talk less. Most players have been complaining about them talking less for a while. I would think that more communication on issues that come up, when they come up would be better than not.
Do we know they have all the information at hand at this moment? maybe part of this investigation is about verifying that this is a 2% chance vs a 45% chance for players. again, maybe the announcement is about making people aware that a change may be coming due to plans to change the coordination mechanic, but can't say that because that commits them to a change they are not ready to commit to, as we have discussed. This is the safest way for them to announce that and raise the flag.
So we can agree they didn't assign it any priority? because there is no mega thread on this topic, where should he have put that information?
So them taking a more urgent response to protect players from making a "bad investment" due to a potential change is a bad thing?
Where they post something like this could have more to do with the urgency, making sure players see it, since its meant to be a "flag" to make players aware. They do that in a mega when there is one, and sometimes pull out of a mega to make a larger awareness. this doesn't' necessary make it a higher priority than any other thing, as far as the work on their end is concerned. (This is one example of the negative straw pulling I mentioned)
yes things can take time, its an unfortunate reality.
That is not putting words in your mouth. You are suggesting that the only 2 possibilities or at least the only 2 you list, are both negative towards the players, you seem to be assuming malice in their actions.
yes, Boom....and as I said, that seems to be one of those "they didn't say what I wanted" things. They already know that, and have expressed that, they dont need to "expose" the players to their own sentiment. They are making them aware of actions that are going to be taken on their side. That would have been off the topic and changed nothing, nor done anything to the situation (except you, as you have said)
I appreciate that you can recognize that you would have felt better about this and maybe not made a post about player negative changes, but effective communication is also knowing your audience, not just a person out in row 48 seat G, and even if you do, you are trying to strike a balance. If they need to make a "quick post" at an inopportune time, it will be limited in scope and likely breadth.
I do not group you in with anyone, and I understand where you are coming from as my response did also point to generalities, because there are a lot of things that go on here, and they are connected, even when you are not directly speaking to them.
I understand your point about communication, but I also feel that its a process and a path, missteps, wrong directions, and even the occasional skinned knee are to be expected. In a furtherance to that goal, I would see any fair attempt at that to be an opportunity to keep an even keel on the situation and look at if from all sides. You are more fair than most, but I hope you can see that you may be coming at this from a more negative side than was warranted from that post. Not everything can be attribute to a lack of information in a simple post.
I appreciate all of the features you've worked on to make SWGOH such an enduringly interesting game, but the coordination problem with the Challenge Pit is the single biggest flaw I've ever seen in the game, and I think fixing it would help your bottom line.
Here's why: in guilds within reach of beating the raid in the near future, you've not only burdened guild leaders and officers with a logistical nightmare, you've also put them in a position where they need to repeatedly explain to their guilds how this raid can be ruined for the entire guild by a single player posting damage at an inopportune time, how wherever they live in the world, they need to be available to play a game at exactly the same time and perhaps even keep their phones from receiving calls and texts during the raid. All that naturally sounds ridiculous and unreasonable, which means the raid serves as an engine for ongoing negative press for the game. As a guild leader myself, I'd much rather have positive news to share. I enjoy actually playing the raid, but trying to organize and educate for it is simply awful. This is a mobile game. Is it too much to ask for players and guilds not to be penalized for attacking the raid at diverse times throughout the day?
I know this may not be a problem for the elite guilds (though the prize distribution no doubt is), but they're not the only ones spending money. Fixing the raid would be a win-win. Players will appreciate it, and you'll doubtless profit from it too.
Then I am not communicating well and should not be in charge of PR (I am not IRL, thank God).
Let me try to rephrase again. I really am not trying to call CG evil here. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes with the raid. And in the absence of knowing, I am drawing inferences. Those inferences have given me angst.
Is that my problem? Yes
Am I the only one who reacted the same way? I don't think so
Could CG communicate more and/or better? Yes
Could CG communicate less and/or worse? Yes
Would better communication lead to less speculation and angst on my part? Yes
Is CG malicious for not communicating more? No
Are my inferences proof of malicious intent by CG? No
And, as I have also said, if enough time passes from this last announcement, with no further information or action, I will consider them more on even footing. But for now, there are differences. And those differences are what upsets me.
Hopefully that provided clarity rather than just further muddying of the waters
Dojo only posted late on Saturday. I'd imagine whatever CG are doing it will take more than a couple of days.
You may need to be more specific, but I will take a guess.
There is no issue, they are just looking into what is happing in P1 with that particular team/video.
As for any furthering of that or other things they are looking at: They will not make any further announcements until they have more to say about the situation, which will likely have to wait until any decisions are made.
You know the answer if you've been present during historical nerfs.
CASE
WHEN CG makes an announcement that they are investigating a mechanic that results in a squad doing better in an event than CG anticipated
THEN CG may nerf some portion of that mechanic
END
I would point out, that CG has NEVER announced an investigation into some raid mechanic that allowed players to perform better than CG expected, and then enhanced that mechanic. Right? So there is no positive outcome that will result from their investigation. Only a neutral or negative outcome is forthcoming.
This is the answer to your line of questioning.
The most positive outcome that I recall was when CG announced it would let remain the Jawa bomb mechanic that killed the bug squad. They didn't nerf that. They decided to let it go. They didn't improve on it.
But they didn't nerf it, either. Neutral outcome. Perhaps there were others that I forget, in the history of CG "fixing" or "letting remain" unexpected mechanics that benefitted players.
CG wants new events to last a long time, to earn more gross revenue over time. We get that. They showed us their mettle with LSGTB. Fine.
But when they nerf mechanics uncovered by players, the action is predatory towards players. When CG releases tough content, the best go to work, solving the challenges. That's human nature for people motivated by these challenges. These players go to lengths to figure out the best way to accomplish the new, challenging task. But then, in certain cases, CG slaps them on the wrist, proverbially, by nerfing the mechanics that enable such accomplishments.
Announcing an investigation is, historically, a precursor to a mechanic nerf. It's not a neutral event to announce such an investigation. It's seen as negative because it historically IS negative. And as I argued above, it is never positive.
Instead of rewarding players' positive work - work that helps the whole player base and makes us feel like a community - CG disenfranchises those players and discourages the rest of us from trying. The announcement is the first step.
CG could approach these things differently. If CG had a more frequent development lifecycle, they wouldn't have to worry about us breaking their stuff too fast. If they produced more playable content, more frequently, they could encourage and reward the creative, problem-solving spirit that's natural to the player base. And thereby engender trust and fun in the game and the brand.
Hope that helps clarify why the announcement is considered a bad thing.
While I agree with the bulk of your post, this portion is not quite true. When tank launched normal tank was tested with super mods, and so had a ridiculous health pool. There was an announcement, and ultimately they severely nerfed the health pool.
And not sure if they were announced, but there have been 2 changes to STR mechanics that were beneficial to players that I can recall (change to DN's annihilate timing, DN will now call adds back after enrage), as well as a change to Rex's big boomer in raids.
sure, if you only look at the history of nerfs. There have been many announcements about things, even about investigating things, and when you look at those as a whole there is a myriad of outcomes.
but you did not answer my line of questioning, you answered why you (and maybe others) could find the subject of the announcement bad, but not "why its a bad thing to make an announcement?" they should strive more to announce their intent to do things if they are going to (and do it before they do), wouldn't you agree?
just because some players will view the idea as negative, does that mean they should not try to raise a flag about investing into something that may change, so players can make informed decisions?
and I'm half joking here, but do you mean a faster lifecycle, like GCs (and possibly Conquest), frequent and changing puzzles that players are posting and discussing strategies????
everything here (except the first line) makes perfect sense, and I think many agree with this general sentiment.
I dont think the last line is realistic, as the first phase in each raid has always been the easiest to master and figure out.
Thank you for correcting my incorrect historical observation! I wasn't active on the forums when Haat launched, so I was unaware of that development. I appreciate you bringing your knowledge to the table.
A guildmate pointed out the HAAT raid nerf and what you said about STR as well. Kudos to you both, sincerely. I'm not sure whether the STR changes were announced, either.
Humans tend to overemphasize the negative over the positive experiences, so I believe the majority of my argument still holds water.
Again, thanks for your help.
your not human?!?! xD
But yes people do tend to remember negative over positive's 10000000000% of the time
LOL quite human. My original flawed post as evidence :P
I'm also among those who mostly recall the negative. you know... like most humans... hahah
Love your comment, friend.
Of course! I come onto this thread every now and then to see whats going on, and it's normally pretty negative and boring but I decided to brighten things up a little today (hopefully). Glad you appreciate my comment!
And jeez...82 pages? All they need to fix is making there be more and better rewards (similar to HSTR but a little more since its way more difficult atm), communication issues (maybe leave it how it is now but instead of making people use third-party sources to communicate times make a better communication system in game), and that's mostly all I can think of, maybe add a new raid exclusive toon? Idk but those are the big issues Ive seen.
But that's all my opinion. Agree or disagree if you like.
I don’t think they announced DR calling sides after enrage, though.
They didn't. No one remind them lol.
I know you're frustrated. Just know I'm not going to shy away from being as open as possible and doing my part to be the conduit between players and devs to the best of my ability.
There will be periods of time (sometimes lasting longer than either of us like) in which I won't have much to say on a subject because there isn't a definitive outcome. This is one of those times and hopefully it'll be resolved one way or another, and sooner than later.
I understand this post doesn't solve anything, but it's all I got for now.
Lol. I thought your original post was a well contrived troll. Unfortunate.
Thanks Doja, we appreciate the update at least. Is there any thoughts of changing the coordination issue? I know for me and my guild that is the biggest frustration. To reiterate I appreciate the communication and the updates, albeit without much information.
I appreciate you a ton. It can't be an easy job being the face of one of the worst companies in the industry, and only doing it to support your family. It's kinda like being the press secretary for the last US president. I can imagine it's very stressful.
Thanks, Doja for doing what you can. It's absolutely unsatisfactory that the Dev's (Eric, Tophat, or Mark) have not come to the forums to quell, or at least try to quell the community. It just shows their disdain for the community that they can't take the time to post after this long. My only question at this point is why.
Why are they absent?
What does Tophat have to do with this, he’s in charge of SOTG and RA right?
All you have to do is try CRancor.