Conquest 4 Feedback [MERGE]

Replies

  • Jo0121
    137 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    look what I found in sector 5!!! @Kyno I think you were asking for proof this happens? I know it's just Jedi Revan but this really shouldn't be happening. 3lmw6w336fly.png
    5ch8wcpvwz50.png
    okwboxf4g9x5.png

    No that's not what I was talking about. We know you can have the same/similar teams in a slice.

    The person was saying they had 5 battles with no choice other than GR, which I was trying to see if they meant 5 vertical slices with only GR options.

    4, I said 4 later. And I would have made a screenshot if I didn't already chose the fights. Next time though I will document it.
  • th3evo
    353 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    The base character is built as base+mods, from my understanding. They built the elements (buffs and bonuses) into the game mode so they dont "have to" change base stats if they want to adjust things, like they would have to in older built events.

    Nope, it doesnt fall apart. Character =base+mods,
    Everything else is sector bonuses, buffs and other character interactions.

    We absolutely can collect data to fill this in, just like players have done in other game modes.

    Correct there are variations, but once you get a few data points you can start to fill in the picture. I never said it would be easy or simple, but it does work.

    I'm wasting so much energy right now but here we go.
    By my calculations that Wicket in my previous example has +23 speed in "mods". There is no bonus TM or speed from Chirpa leadership or someone's unique ability as far as I know.
    • 166 base + 23 mods = 189 speed
    • 189 + 30% sector bonus = 245 speed
    • 245 + 60% overprepared = 392 speed

    I did another battle against Ewoks this time in Sector 2 (+20-70% bonuses) + Overprepared III (+60%) - Chirpa lead, Wicket, Paploo, Logray, Teebo (replacing Elder). It's the sixth battle of the sector but I'm going to calculate the speed with the lowest possible sector bonus (+20%).
    • 166 base + 23 mods = 189 speed
    • 189 + 20% sector bonus = 226 speed
    • 226 + 60% overprepared = 361 speed

    He should have 361 speed however the one I encountered has only ±349 speed. So the "mods" are different between Sector 2 and 3 or the stats are calculated differently.
  • Kyno
    31681 posts Moderator
    Jo0121 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    look what I found in sector 5!!! @Kyno I think you were asking for proof this happens? I know it's just Jedi Revan but this really shouldn't be happening. 3lmw6w336fly.png
    5ch8wcpvwz50.png
    okwboxf4g9x5.png

    No that's not what I was talking about. We know you can have the same/similar teams in a slice.

    The person was saying they had 5 battles with no choice other than GR, which I was trying to see if they meant 5 vertical slices with only GR options.

    4, I said 4 later. And I would have made a screenshot if I didn't already chose the fights. Next time though I will document it.

    So you had 4 vertical slices with only GR as any option? Or on the path you chose? (That would mean there were other options you just didnt make you path able to reach them)
  • Jo0121
    137 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Jo0121 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    look what I found in sector 5!!! @Kyno I think you were asking for proof this happens? I know it's just Jedi Revan but this really shouldn't be happening. 3lmw6w336fly.png
    5ch8wcpvwz50.png
    okwboxf4g9x5.png

    No that's not what I was talking about. We know you can have the same/similar teams in a slice.

    The person was saying they had 5 battles with no choice other than GR, which I was trying to see if they meant 5 vertical slices with only GR options.

    4, I said 4 later. And I would have made a screenshot if I didn't already chose the fights. Next time though I will document it.

    So you had 4 vertical slices with only GR as any option? Or on the path you chose? (That would mean there were other options you just didnt make you path able to reach them)

    As far as I could see it was all GR. It doesn't matter. If it happens again I will document it.
  • Kyno
    31681 posts Moderator
    th3evo wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    The base character is built as base+mods, from my understanding. They built the elements (buffs and bonuses) into the game mode so they dont "have to" change base stats if they want to adjust things, like they would have to in older built events.

    Nope, it doesnt fall apart. Character =base+mods,
    Everything else is sector bonuses, buffs and other character interactions.

    We absolutely can collect data to fill this in, just like players have done in other game modes.

    Correct there are variations, but once you get a few data points you can start to fill in the picture. I never said it would be easy or simple, but it does work.

    I'm wasting so much energy right now but here we go.
    By my calculations that Wicket in my previous example has +23 speed in "mods". There is no bonus TM or speed from Chirpa leadership or someone's unique ability as far as I know.
    • 166 base + 23 mods = 189 speed
    • 189 + 30% sector bonus = 245 speed
    • 245 + 60% overprepared = 392 speed

    I did another battle against Ewoks this time in Sector 2 (+20-70% bonuses) + Overprepared III (+60%) - Chirpa lead, Wicket, Paploo, Logray, Teebo (replacing Elder). It's the sixth battle of the sector but I'm going to calculate the speed with the lowest possible sector bonus (+20%).
    • 166 base + 23 mods = 189 speed
    • 189 + 20% sector bonus = 226 speed
    • 226 + 60% overprepared = 361 speed

    He should have 361 speed however the one I encountered has only ±349 speed. So the "mods" are different between Sector 2 and 3 or the stats are calculated differently.

    You assume the lowest possible sector bonus near halfway through the sector, that could be a cause for error, and I would also consider that an odd assumption.
  • Kyno
    31681 posts Moderator
    Jo0121 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Jo0121 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    look what I found in sector 5!!! @Kyno I think you were asking for proof this happens? I know it's just Jedi Revan but this really shouldn't be happening. 3lmw6w336fly.png
    5ch8wcpvwz50.png
    okwboxf4g9x5.png

    No that's not what I was talking about. We know you can have the same/similar teams in a slice.

    The person was saying they had 5 battles with no choice other than GR, which I was trying to see if they meant 5 vertical slices with only GR options.

    4, I said 4 later. And I would have made a screenshot if I didn't already chose the fights. Next time though I will document it.

    So you had 4 vertical slices with only GR as any option? Or on the path you chose? (That would mean there were other options you just didnt make you path able to reach them)

    As far as I could see it was all GR. It doesn't matter. If it happens again I will document it.

    You can only see 2 nodes ahead. So in the 2 slices you saw 5 battles all GR, then after each of the next 2 battle you only saw 5 battles of all GR? Again, it seems unlikely that is the case. Now seeing all of a slice and making choices to not make it to other teams could leave you in a path where you chose to fight GR 5 or so times, but if you are saying they were your only option for 5 slices, yes you should document that.
  • th3evo
    353 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    The base character is built as base+mods, from my understanding. They built the elements (buffs and bonuses) into the game mode so they dont "have to" change base stats if they want to adjust things, like they would have to in older built events.

    Nope, it doesnt fall apart. Character =base+mods,
    Everything else is sector bonuses, buffs and other character interactions.

    We absolutely can collect data to fill this in, just like players have done in other game modes.

    Correct there are variations, but once you get a few data points you can start to fill in the picture. I never said it would be easy or simple, but it does work.

    I'm wasting so much energy right now but here we go.
    By my calculations that Wicket in my previous example has +23 speed in "mods". There is no bonus TM or speed from Chirpa leadership or someone's unique ability as far as I know.
    • 166 base + 23 mods = 189 speed
    • 189 + 30% sector bonus = 245 speed
    • 245 + 60% overprepared = 392 speed

    I did another battle against Ewoks this time in Sector 2 (+20-70% bonuses) + Overprepared III (+60%) - Chirpa lead, Wicket, Paploo, Logray, Teebo (replacing Elder). It's the sixth battle of the sector but I'm going to calculate the speed with the lowest possible sector bonus (+20%).
    • 166 base + 23 mods = 189 speed
    • 189 + 20% sector bonus = 226 speed
    • 226 + 60% overprepared = 361 speed

    He should have 361 speed however the one I encountered has only ±349 speed. So the "mods" are different between Sector 2 and 3 or the stats are calculated differently.

    You assume the lowest possible sector bonus near halfway through the sector, that could be a cause for error, and I would also consider that an odd assumption.

    With the lowest possible bonus Wicket's speed in Sector 2 should be 361 but in reality he's slower - 349. I picked the lowest bonus on purpose to show that he doesn't even reach the "minimum" speed.
  • Zanir
    302 posts Member
    edited June 15
    Hortus wrote: »
    Sector 3, Jango-lead BH team. No overprepared buff (!), but:
    1. Jango goes first vs DR with effective speed 416 (data disks included)
    2. Not a single resistable debuff from DR, Vader, BSF, Malak and Palp landed on the enemy. BSF, in particular, have 100% potency but nor CBM nor debuffs didn't land on anyone. It turns slightly better on the second attempt but energy was already lost.

    Have I seen anything remotely close in sith vs BH battles in previous Conquests? No. Just bad luck, no one touched enemy stats I suppose.

    As someone already said in other thread, it makes Conquest feel as another rng-based event - instead of planning you just jump into unknown and see what happen, and even after that you have no real clue what exactly you need to tune up because you can't see enemy stats and can't be sure that it won't change in the next battle and/or next Conquest.

    Potency calibration is now a standard 1-dot disc in my loadout, no matter the other 11 slots.
  • Zanir
    302 posts Member
    Rule of thumb for S4+ on Hard Mode, don't expect to go first without a GL.

    FTFY

  • Rath_Tarr
    4389 posts Member
    Rule of thumb for S4+ on Hard Mode, don't expect to go first without a GL.
    Zanir wrote: »
    Rule of thumb for S4+ on Hard Mode, don't expect to go first without a GL.

    FTFY
    egyf5tb2zvwy.png

  • TVF
    30983 posts Member
    I like that one but I *really* like the blue one!
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Rath_Tarr
    4389 posts Member
    TVF wrote: »
    I like that one but I *really* like the blue one!
    Me too. Sadly no blue for me this time so I make the best of what I found.
  • TVF
    30983 posts Member
    Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    TVF wrote: »
    I like that one but I *really* like the blue one!
    Me too. Sadly no blue for me this time so I make the best of what I found.

    That's the spirit!
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Kyno
    31681 posts Moderator
    th3evo wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    th3evo wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    The base character is built as base+mods, from my understanding. They built the elements (buffs and bonuses) into the game mode so they dont "have to" change base stats if they want to adjust things, like they would have to in older built events.

    Nope, it doesnt fall apart. Character =base+mods,
    Everything else is sector bonuses, buffs and other character interactions.

    We absolutely can collect data to fill this in, just like players have done in other game modes.

    Correct there are variations, but once you get a few data points you can start to fill in the picture. I never said it would be easy or simple, but it does work.

    I'm wasting so much energy right now but here we go.
    By my calculations that Wicket in my previous example has +23 speed in "mods". There is no bonus TM or speed from Chirpa leadership or someone's unique ability as far as I know.
    • 166 base + 23 mods = 189 speed
    • 189 + 30% sector bonus = 245 speed
    • 245 + 60% overprepared = 392 speed

    I did another battle against Ewoks this time in Sector 2 (+20-70% bonuses) + Overprepared III (+60%) - Chirpa lead, Wicket, Paploo, Logray, Teebo (replacing Elder). It's the sixth battle of the sector but I'm going to calculate the speed with the lowest possible sector bonus (+20%).
    • 166 base + 23 mods = 189 speed
    • 189 + 20% sector bonus = 226 speed
    • 226 + 60% overprepared = 361 speed

    He should have 361 speed however the one I encountered has only ±349 speed. So the "mods" are different between Sector 2 and 3 or the stats are calculated differently.

    You assume the lowest possible sector bonus near halfway through the sector, that could be a cause for error, and I would also consider that an odd assumption.

    With the lowest possible bonus Wicket's speed in Sector 2 should be 361 but in reality he's slower - 349. I picked the lowest bonus on purpose to show that he doesn't even reach the "minimum" speed.

    Got it.
  • Kyno
    31681 posts Moderator
    edited June 15
    @th3evo how did you figure out the speed of the toon in battle? Did you account for uniques, leaders, and discs on your side?


    And how did you choose the %bonus for the sector in the first calculation?
  • Rath_Tarr wrote: »
    Rule of thumb for S4+ on Hard Mode, don't expect to go first without a GL.
    Zanir wrote: »
    Rule of thumb for S4+ on Hard Mode, don't expect to go first without a GL.

    FTFY
    egyf5tb2zvwy.png

    Rule of Thumb does not mean gospel truth, no exceptions.

    Without multiple LR disks, you are not beating many teams without a GL in late S5
  • I'm tired of seeing the same disks over and over, they should add more choices and not allow to have more than one of the same disk otherwise make it upgrade from green, to blue, to purple and stat bumps like mods. Also why should i have to pay to swap disks?
  • NicWester
    8061 posts Member
    Jo0121 wrote: »
    When complaining about disk randomness (which is a problem), why do people insist on stating how many purple disks they saw? Most of the purple disks are not worth the slots.

    I had a very rough go last Conquest because I didn't adjust well to DCS being removed. I learned my lesson, chose "better" disks this time, and am rofl-stomping everything (no purples). So I don't think the difficulty of the enemies was changed so much as folks are using different disks, perhaps?

    Disk randomness is a problem, in my opinion, which is further compounded by the cost to remove them. But this has all bean said dozens of times over in this thread. So I'll just leave it there.

    Future Vision might not have been worth it, but Massively Overpowered definitely is and it can help if people are struggling with certain nodes. Personally I think Booming voice is good too. Maybe not 4 dots, but it is up there.

    I agree about the cost, said as much in my previous posts.


    Okay, I'll actually look at what the purples do, since I haven't seen a good one yet, figured I should see what the others do.

    I completely disagree about Massively Overpowered being worth 4 slots. After 10 buffs, you deal an extra 99,999 damage once time... gee, swell ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    I use two of the 1-dot mods that give two HoTs at the start of your turn and a 2-dot mod that gives offense up, crit chance up, and crit damage up at the start of your turn. That's 8 Capacity total, I have another 4 to use and I get 7 buffs at the start of each turn before factoring in any abilities.

    Massively Overpowered would be a steal at 8 slots.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • Kyno
    31681 posts Moderator
    SotaDraken wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Jo0121 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Jo0121 wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    look what I found in sector 5!!! @Kyno I think you were asking for proof this happens? I know it's just Jedi Revan but this really shouldn't be happening. 3lmw6w336fly.png
    5ch8wcpvwz50.png
    okwboxf4g9x5.png

    No that's not what I was talking about. We know you can have the same/similar teams in a slice.

    The person was saying they had 5 battles with no choice other than GR, which I was trying to see if they meant 5 vertical slices with only GR options.

    4, I said 4 later. And I would have made a screenshot if I didn't already chose the fights. Next time though I will document it.

    So you had 4 vertical slices with only GR as any option? Or on the path you chose? (That would mean there were other options you just didnt make you path able to reach them)

    As far as I could see it was all GR. It doesn't matter. If it happens again I will document it.

    You can only see 2 nodes ahead. So in the 2 slices you saw 5 battles all GR, then after each of the next 2 battle you only saw 5 battles of all GR? Again, it seems unlikely that is the case. Now seeing all of a slice and making choices to not make it to other teams could leave you in a path where you chose to fight GR 5 or so times, but if you are saying they were your only option for 5 slices, yes you should document that.

    I had 2 vertical "slices", 5 nodes of GR last Conquest. posted on May 24th, in this thread.

    "It is starting to be more common, it is happening to more than one person, and it is a big deal "

    😉

    Again, that is not as odd, they seem to have one of the higher number of leaders in the pool, but still it should be looked at.
  • Stryde
    152 posts Member
    edited June 18
    I haven't had access to a purple disk yet in any conquest, all hard difficulty since the initial, and completing each sector but earning the second-to-last crate. I've been taking screenshots for the last two conquests of every single data disc stockpile (once it's viewable, regardless of which path I take), just to rub salt in my own wounds.

    I respect the opinion of players stating the purple disks are not worth it for four slots, but it feels like rich people telling poor folk that money doesn't buy happiness. I'm simply going to have to experience it personally before I believe it; thanks for the advice. I just opened sector 5 today, so maybe this run will change my luck.

    Maybe having even one purple disk is all the motivation I would need to close every loop, to rinse and repeat 6 - 30 times for missed feats simply because I finally got one to test. But who knows? How is there really a chance for some players to see each purple disk every run and some to see none?

    I wasn't angry when I started typing this. I just really wanted to bring up how many times someone in a different position than me said with a straight face that I was better off not living their experience (regardless of the good life). But I've made myself mad now. Unreal. Shame on me.

    [EDIT]
    I have seen my first purple disk, and I have purchased it.
    pcxdyodx4hfz.jpg
    Post edited by Stryde on
  • I’ve had a purple disk in the odd numbered Conquests and I was not offered one in the even numbered Conquests.
  • Finally got a purple data disk. First in last 2 conquest. 4* deadly moment. Added that and ruthless swiftness, ruthless debilitation, 3 caustic emissions(only blues I saw so I grabbed them all), vitality and entrenched.

    Now because of that getting that purple and it having synergy all enemies die almost immediately.
    And because of that synergy it no longer matters if they have double my speed they die from either counters or a couple aoe attacks.

    This is the difference having good data disks makes and the nerfing the drop rate of high rarity data disks makes conquest now RNG dependant. You either get lucky get good disks and everything is easy or you are unlucky you get crap for disks and it makes things almost impossible even for r7 teams.
  • Ruthless debilitation is blue as well but got it right after deadly momentum. All I saw before was entrenched, vitality, power and the 2 buff sets. Night and day difference between the 2 data disk sets.
  • th3evo
    353 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    @th3evo how did you figure out the speed of the toon in battle? Did you account for uniques, leaders, and discs on your side?


    And how did you choose the %bonus for the sector in the first calculation?

    I figured it out by trial and error. I used Hermit Yoda in leader slot - he's fast, he doesn't have any leader ability and he doesn't have any uniques that would give him speed or TM (Do or Do Not does give him TM when someone with Master's Training dies but that is irrelevant for the testing). I paired him with Thrawn so that Hermit Yoda doesn't escape. Thrawn doesn't have any synergy with Hermit Yoda.
    Disks I have equipped are - Heal Over Time (irrelevant), Convor's Agility (TM on evade - irrelevant), Ruthless Swiftness 2× (TM when enemy falls below 100% Health - irrelevant), Deadly Momentum (irrelevant), Leader's Resolve (green, gives unit in the Leader slot +20% speed - relevant).
    At this point I just kept jumping into the battle to see who gets the first turn - Hermit Yoda or Wicket. I removed/replaced mods on my Hermit Yoda to make him slower or faster depending on Wicket. I've spent 100 crystals on refreshes to have enough energy to do that.

    It was the first battle of Sector 3. "Stat bonuses increase further down the Sector" that's all we know about the sector bonuses so I assumed that the first battle would have the lowest possible bonus (+30% in this case).
  • th3evo
    353 posts Member
    Another fun fact - last battle before SLKR boss in Sector 5 was Gideon lead, Shoretrooper, Magmatrooper, Stormtrooper, Deathtrooper. I jumped in with my SLKR (532 speed) his lead giving him +30 speed and Leader's Resolve giving him +20% speed.
    Well, that's not enough to outrun Gideon.
  • DEATHER
    47 posts Member
    th3evo wrote: »
    Another fun fact - last battle before SLKR boss in Sector 5 was Gideon lead, Shoretrooper, Magmatrooper, Stormtrooper, Deathtrooper. I jumped in with my SLKR (532 speed) his lead giving him +30 speed and Leader's Resolve giving him +20% speed.
    Well, that's not enough to outrun Gideon.

    Hi, in first hard conquest i had done a lot of testing on speed and conclusion was that units have speed from mods and its value increase with each sector.

  • NicWester wrote: »
    Jo0121 wrote: »
    When complaining about disk randomness (which is a problem), why do people insist on stating how many purple disks they saw? Most of the purple disks are not worth the slots.

    I had a very rough go last Conquest because I didn't adjust well to DCS being removed. I learned my lesson, chose "better" disks this time, and am rofl-stomping everything (no purples). So I don't think the difficulty of the enemies was changed so much as folks are using different disks, perhaps?

    Disk randomness is a problem, in my opinion, which is further compounded by the cost to remove them. But this has all bean said dozens of times over in this thread. So I'll just leave it there.

    Future Vision might not have been worth it, but Massively Overpowered definitely is and it can help if people are struggling with certain nodes. Personally I think Booming voice is good too. Maybe not 4 dots, but it is up there.

    I agree about the cost, said as much in my previous posts.


    Okay, I'll actually look at what the purples do, since I haven't seen a good one yet, figured I should see what the others do.

    I completely disagree about Massively Overpowered being worth 4 slots. After 10 buffs, you deal an extra 99,999 damage once time... gee, swell ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    I use two of the 1-dot mods that give two HoTs at the start of your turn and a 2-dot mod that gives offense up, crit chance up, and crit damage up at the start of your turn. That's 8 Capacity total, I have another 4 to use and I get 7 buffs at the start of each turn before factoring in any abilities.

    Massively Overpowered would be a steal at 8 slots.

    You're giving up slots that could provide for control (e.g. Ruthless Swiftness), which imo is much more valuable. To each his own. If your rofl stomping everyone, then kudos to you!
  • Is it just me or is Entrenched completely busted after the new update?
This discussion has been closed.