The Stand Your Ground Update [MEGA]

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  • zatho
    84 posts Member
    edited July 15
    @Kyno concerning my post. It wouldn't cost them anything to announce such things before it becomes relevant. A lot of players including me did the mission thinking there won't be a fix before august. CG wouln't even had needed to promise a fix. Just telling they are working on a fix that might be ready during phase 3. So player could decide to wait for it or not.
  • Legend91
    1983 posts Member
    Wait. People expect compensation over the SYG bug? Seriously? I didn't even notice the bug as the Reek is so easy at this point. Your toons should be loaded up with health and not protection anyway.

    They did just make the mission easier for people in the future by removing Arc as a requirement and making BB heros. So maybe consider that as compensation?

    Don't be stingy. R7 your Shaak and 501st (other than Rex, R5 him) and remod your squad. Profit.

    Which is the point - not everyone goes for full R7 on his team because some people have to manage their resources. And for those going in with smth like a R5 average the SYG thing could very much have made the difference between winning and losing.
    Legend#6873 | YouTube | swgoh.gg
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Why wouldn’t the devs be stingy over 5 shards? They have to hand make the pixels in a factory, pay for inspection, packaging and shipping, etc. And is it really their fault? Maybe it’s the player-base’s fault for being so demanding all the time as if they’re customers expecting a properly maintained product. The devs are the victims if anything.

    I'm always surprised by this, I know it's hard to believe but every part of any business and things they make/do has a value. Value, even of money itself, is an imaginary thing and can always be dismissed, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a value.

    Yet other games frequently supply make goods when they screw up and yet those games don't go bankrupt over it or complain about it. You want to know what else is valuable? Our time and our money. And both of those vanish more and more as CG loses our goodwill or gives us yet one more reason to not trust them.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Why wouldn’t the devs be stingy over 5 shards? They have to hand make the pixels in a factory, pay for inspection, packaging and shipping, etc. And is it really their fault? Maybe it’s the player-base’s fault for being so demanding all the time as if they’re customers expecting a properly maintained product. The devs are the victims if anything.

    I'm always surprised by this, I know it's hard to believe but every part of any business and things they make/do has a value. Value, even of money itself, is an imaginary thing and can always be dismissed, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a value.

    Yet other games frequently supply make goods when they screw up and yet those games don't go bankrupt over it or complain about it. You want to know what else is valuable? Our time and our money. And both of those vanish more and more as CG loses our goodwill or gives us yet one more reason to not trust them.

    I don’t think they have any trust left to loose with the community. Yes, basically every other game company does give out compensation on a regular basis. CG is the noted outlier.
  • Kyno
    31139 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Why wouldn’t the devs be stingy over 5 shards? They have to hand make the pixels in a factory, pay for inspection, packaging and shipping, etc. And is it really their fault? Maybe it’s the player-base’s fault for being so demanding all the time as if they’re customers expecting a properly maintained product. The devs are the victims if anything.

    I'm always surprised by this, I know it's hard to believe but every part of any business and things they make/do has a value. Value, even of money itself, is an imaginary thing and can always be dismissed, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a value.

    Yet other games frequently supply make goods when they screw up and yet those games don't go bankrupt over it or complain about it. You want to know what else is valuable? Our time and our money. And both of those vanish more and more as CG loses our goodwill or gives us yet one more reason to not trust them.

    I have never heard CG complain about it.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Why wouldn’t the devs be stingy over 5 shards? They have to hand make the pixels in a factory, pay for inspection, packaging and shipping, etc. And is it really their fault? Maybe it’s the player-base’s fault for being so demanding all the time as if they’re customers expecting a properly maintained product. The devs are the victims if anything.

    I'm always surprised by this, I know it's hard to believe but every part of any business and things they make/do has a value. Value, even of money itself, is an imaginary thing and can always be dismissed, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a value.

    Yet other games frequently supply make goods when they screw up and yet those games don't go bankrupt over it or complain about it. You want to know what else is valuable? Our time and our money. And both of those vanish more and more as CG loses our goodwill or gives us yet one more reason to not trust them.

    I have never heard CG complain about it.

    We've gone several months in a row before not hearing from CG at all so can't say that's surprising.
  • Hey all,
    has there been any information about a possible SYG compensation? I know it’s hard to pinpoint an exact number since the battle has many variables but I think our guild lost ~6 KAM shards due to the bug. I think that it’s just fair to give some kind of compensation for an error with one of the most important missions in the game. Don’t want to be greedy or anything but we got 5 CAT shards for the incorrect pricing so I guess something like that would also be fair for KAM.
    Cheers guys!
  • Kyno
    31139 posts Moderator
    Hey all,
    has there been any information about a possible SYG compensation? I know it’s hard to pinpoint an exact number since the battle has many variables but I think our guild lost ~6 KAM shards due to the bug. I think that it’s just fair to give some kind of compensation for an error with one of the most important missions in the game. Don’t want to be greedy or anything but we got 5 CAT shards for the incorrect pricing so I guess something like that would also be fair for KAM.
    Cheers guys!

    @KenobiWarrior there are currently no plans for compensation.
  • Kyno
    31139 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Why wouldn’t the devs be stingy over 5 shards? They have to hand make the pixels in a factory, pay for inspection, packaging and shipping, etc. And is it really their fault? Maybe it’s the player-base’s fault for being so demanding all the time as if they’re customers expecting a properly maintained product. The devs are the victims if anything.

    I'm always surprised by this, I know it's hard to believe but every part of any business and things they make/do has a value. Value, even of money itself, is an imaginary thing and can always be dismissed, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a value.

    Yet other games frequently supply make goods when they screw up and yet those games don't go bankrupt over it or complain about it. You want to know what else is valuable? Our time and our money. And both of those vanish more and more as CG loses our goodwill or gives us yet one more reason to not trust them.

    I have never heard CG complain about it.

    We've gone several months in a row before not hearing from CG at all so can't say that's surprising.

    Nope, I just looked and I see no gap in communication lasting that long.

    Also, I can see you saying "bazinga" as you hit send on this one. Nice job.


  • @KenobiWarrior there are currently no plans for compensation.[/quote]

    Thank you for the reply @Kyno !
    I know you’re not the one making the decision but I am a bit disappointed nevertheless since this is really something that had an effect on us players and GC acknowledged it’s a bug. However, thank you Kyno :smile:
  • Kyno
    31139 posts Moderator
    KenobiWarrior there are currently no plans for compensation.

    Thank you for the reply Kyno !
    I know you’re not the one making the decision but I am a bit disappointed nevertheless since this is really something that had an effect on us players and GC acknowledged it’s a bug. However, thank you Kyno :smile:

    @KenobiWarrior they based it on the data they pulled that showed no change to the win rate. I am not trying to defend anything, just giving out information.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    KenobiWarrior there are currently no plans for compensation.

    Thank you for the reply Kyno !
    I know you’re not the one making the decision but I am a bit disappointed nevertheless since this is really something that had an effect on us players and GC acknowledged it’s a bug. However, thank you Kyno :smile:

    @KenobiWarrior they based it on the data they pulled that showed no change to the win rate. I am not trying to defend anything, just giving out information.

    Thanks again @Kyno , I think you’re doing a great job at communicating things like this to us.
    That makes sense from a global perspective, I just shared my personal experience that is probably flawed. While I trust the analysis, I guess that the win rate is quite low since many guilds do not optimize the mission and the change has not a great effect. However, for our guild where everyone streams the KAM mission, we really saw a difference between before and after the fix. A t-test between before and after the fix conditional on having cleared the mission beforehand would probably show a different result.
  • Kyno
    31139 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    KenobiWarrior there are currently no plans for compensation.

    Thank you for the reply Kyno !
    I know you’re not the one making the decision but I am a bit disappointed nevertheless since this is really something that had an effect on us players and GC acknowledged it’s a bug. However, thank you Kyno :smile:

    KenobiWarrior they based it on the data they pulled that showed no change to the win rate. I am not trying to defend anything, just giving out information.

    Thanks again Kyno , I think you’re doing a great job at communicating things like this to us.
    That makes sense from a global perspective, I just shared my personal experience that is probably flawed. While I trust the analysis, I guess that the win rate is quite low since many guilds do not optimize the mission and the change has not a great effect. However, for our guild where everyone streams the KAM mission, we really saw a difference between before and after the fix. A t-test between before and after the fix conditional on having cleared the mission beforehand would probably show a different result.

    Honestly, I expect it is not that low (for the guilds that can get to that point), but it does change and I'm sure it goes both up and down.

    We dont all stream, and we actually went up with the bug present, but both of our situations are too localized to really account for the larger picture.
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    Why wouldn’t the devs be stingy over 5 shards? They have to hand make the pixels in a factory, pay for inspection, packaging and shipping, etc. And is it really their fault? Maybe it’s the player-base’s fault for being so demanding all the time as if they’re customers expecting a properly maintained product. The devs are the victims if anything.

    I'm always surprised by this, I know it's hard to believe but every part of any business and things they make/do has a value. Value, even of money itself, is an imaginary thing and can always be dismissed, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a value.

    Yet other games frequently supply make goods when they screw up and yet those games don't go bankrupt over it or complain about it. You want to know what else is valuable? Our time and our money. And both of those vanish more and more as CG loses our goodwill or gives us yet one more reason to not trust them.

    I have never heard CG complain about it.

    We've gone several months in a row before not hearing from CG at all so can't say that's surprising.

    Nope, I just looked and I see no gap in communication lasting that long.

    Also, I can see you saying "bazinga" as you hit send on this one. Nice job.

    I'm sorry you don't recall the months without a Road Ahead or a Q&A of any kind but it happened. Posting "title update coming out" isn't communication and you know it. It was a bulletin, not actual communication. Pretending otherwise is totally disingenuous and being intentionally obtuse. You can defend them all you like (as you always do) but that doesn't change the fact that THEY screwed up the mission. I didn't break Stand Your Ground. They broke it. Then they told us it wasn't broken, it was WAI which caused its own uproar (don't care if it was EA and not CG, they're a subsidiary of EA and if anything that just highlights how bad CG is at communication). Then all of a sudden a day later it's NOT WAI and will be fixed.

    Capital Games has given compensation to all of us in the past for the most minor of bugs that only impacted a small number of players. Since transitioning into Capital Gains they've abandoned that approach in favor of thanking us for our understanding and saying they're sorry. They are the only game developer I've come across who finds "make goods" too valuable to be given to players freely when they've broken the game.

    While we're on the subject, unless they starved Doja and Crumb for a month to compensate for the 5 CAT shards they passed out because of CG's inability to do basic math, I fail to see any loss they've sustained from a make good. Not doing a make good leads to their own loss of income as players decide to stop making purchases in the game. But hey, if losing face and no longer getting money from at least some of us means less than 100 crystals here and there (or 5 KAM shards) and earning back our goodwill I guess that's to be expected from a company that can't do math or any basic quality assurance testing on a massive title update. It also showcases exactly what CG thinks of its customers.
  • zatho
    84 posts Member
    edited July 16
    I want do mention that I don't think these 5 CAT shards were any kind of compensation. They needed to give them to players so that whales had a reason to burn their conquest currency for expensive shards. Otherwise there wouldn't have been a chance to unlock her within 3 events.
  • TVF
    30950 posts Member
    zatho wrote: »
    I want do mention that I don't think these 5 CAT shards were any kind of compensation. They needed to give them to players so that whales had a reason to burn their conquest currency for expensive shards. Otherwise there wouldn't have been a chance to unlock her within 3 events.

    The CAT shards were for a pricing error.
    The CGDF is no more. Now we hate CG because of conquest. Say hi in our Discord! https://discord.gg/AmStGTH
  • Pariah_Anchorite
    771 posts Member
    edited July 16
    Kyno wrote: »
    KenobiWarrior there are currently no plans for compensation.

    Thank you for the reply Kyno !
    I know you’re not the one making the decision but I am a bit disappointed nevertheless since this is really something that had an effect on us players and GC acknowledged it’s a bug. However, thank you Kyno :smile:

    @KenobiWarrior they based it on the data they pulled that showed no change to the win rate. I am not trying to defend anything, just giving out information.

    This *one* event change is a representative sample?
  • Kyno
    31139 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    KenobiWarrior there are currently no plans for compensation.

    Thank you for the reply Kyno !
    I know you’re not the one making the decision but I am a bit disappointed nevertheless since this is really something that had an effect on us players and GC acknowledged it’s a bug. However, thank you Kyno :smile:

    KenobiWarrior they based it on the data they pulled that showed no change to the win rate. I am not trying to defend anything, just giving out information.

    This *one* event change is a representative sample?

    Sure, why not?

    This is a data point that can be examined and compared to other points and other calculations, like the average, ext....
  • Ultra
    8280 posts Moderator
    TVF wrote: »
    zatho wrote: »
    I want do mention that I don't think these 5 CAT shards were any kind of compensation. They needed to give them to players so that whales had a reason to burn their conquest currency for expensive shards. Otherwise there wouldn't have been a chance to unlock her within 3 events.

    The CAT shards were for a pricing error.

    Yes. So that people could get her for free when starting from nothing, without whaling on her
  • Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    KenobiWarrior there are currently no plans for compensation.

    Thank you for the reply Kyno !
    I know you’re not the one making the decision but I am a bit disappointed nevertheless since this is really something that had an effect on us players and GC acknowledged it’s a bug. However, thank you Kyno :smile:

    KenobiWarrior they based it on the data they pulled that showed no change to the win rate. I am not trying to defend anything, just giving out information.

    This *one* event change is a representative sample?

    Sure, why not?

    This is a data point that can be examined and compared to other points and other calculations, like the average, ext....

    Sorry to come here again @Kyno but I just had one more thought after talking to a guildmate. You, like me and CG, see this from a very statistical point of view which I think is perfectly fine. And maybe there is no statistical significant difference at some level between the two groups (no bug and bug), which I totally accept and which is a perfectly solid level of argumentation.

    However, since there was a bug and given the huge number of players, there must have been at least 1 person (just figuratively) who was adversely affected by this bug. Does he or she get compensation? Under this statistical argument not since in the bigger picture they just don’t matter. From a player experience view, however, I think it’s fair to reward this player compensation for a bug that he or she could not control.
  • Kyno
    31139 posts Moderator
    Kyno wrote: »
    Kyno wrote: »
    KenobiWarrior there are currently no plans for compensation.

    Thank you for the reply Kyno !
    I know you’re not the one making the decision but I am a bit disappointed nevertheless since this is really something that had an effect on us players and GC acknowledged it’s a bug. However, thank you Kyno :smile:

    KenobiWarrior they based it on the data they pulled that showed no change to the win rate. I am not trying to defend anything, just giving out information.

    This *one* event change is a representative sample?

    Sure, why not?

    This is a data point that can be examined and compared to other points and other calculations, like the average, ext....

    Sorry to come here again Kyno but I just had one more thought after talking to a guildmate. You, like me and CG, see this from a very statistical point of view which I think is perfectly fine. And maybe there is no statistical significant difference at some level between the two groups (no bug and bug), which I totally accept and which is a perfectly solid level of argumentation.

    However, since there was a bug and given the huge number of players, there must have been at least 1 person (just figuratively) who was adversely affected by this bug. Does he or she get compensation? Under this statistical argument not since in the bigger picture they just don’t matter. From a player experience view, however, I think it’s fair to reward this player compensation for a bug that he or she could not control.

    I'm sure there are players who lost this last round, but if we look at it from that perspective, the issue is that once players win, it's no guarantee they will win every time after. This would make it hard to attribute any loss to this specific issue.

    All that said without a statistical change in the win rate, that would mean that players won with this issue at a similar rate, meaning the natural +/- was still there, and not affected by this issue.

    I am not arguing they shouldn't, just sharing information.
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