I'm waiting for the next JMK kit touchup

Zanir
333 posts Member
You know, the one that'll specifically target the JMLS counter against JMK. SEE got screwed over, it only makes sense that now it's time for JMLS to join him in the trash bin. I imagine something like "all allies are immune to true damage and enemy Jedi tanks lose 50% max protection at the start of battle" slotted into JMK's leadership.

Replies

  • Ultra
    8516 posts Moderator
    SEE was cheesing, JMK is not
  • crzydroid
    5975 posts Moderator
    How about no? Since the nerfs, JML is no good against SEE anymore, so it has to be able to beat something.
  • Ultra wrote: »
    SEE was cheesing, JMK is not

    SEE's usability against any GL aside from JML has revolved around cheesing, so thats pretty much a key feature of his kit at this point.
  • The JML counter is very different, it uses at least 1 legendary and 2 journey characters that are high value to take down JMK, while the SEE counter relied on a NS cheese with sith assassin.

    I'm more worried about the stealth buff for Rey against SEE.
  • Gifafi
    5682 posts Member
    wait a minute, by "touch-up" OP meant a negative change???
    Maybe End Game isn't for you
  • Ultra
    8516 posts Moderator
    edited October 6
    Ultra wrote: »
    SEE was cheesing, JMK is not

    SEE's usability against any GL aside from JML has revolved around cheesing, so thats pretty much a key feature of his kit at this point.

    That is true

    I wasn't a fan of JMK buff because SEE cheeses against Rey, SLKR too
  • Zanir
    333 posts Member
    edited October 7
    Ultra wrote: »
    SEE was cheesing, JMK is not

    What does this even mean? How is "cheese" defined? Can someone please tell me what exactly was illegitimate about using characters that existed in the game and taking advantage of their interactions? This made no sense when they nerfed the stealth counter and it makes less sense every time someone calls it "cheese".

    To me it seems as though "cheese" in this case means "JMK owners didn't like it". Which is a bad reason and YOU KNOW IT IS.
    Post edited by crzydroid on
  • GAS fives chewie vs SLKR was a cheese due to poor AI.

    SEE and nightsisters is not a cheese imo. Just good use of game mechanics.
  • crzydroid
    5975 posts Moderator
    GAS fives chewie vs SLKR was a cheese due to poor AI.

    SEE and nightsisters is not a cheese imo. Just good use of game mechanics.

    I think part of the cheese is the AI error where units who could ignore taunt simply weren't.

    Otherwise, people could make arguments about cheap and possibly undergeared characters that weren't meant to synergize with a GL taking down a powerful squad. Suppose arguments could be made either way. But they should definitely not just be focusing on zombie after ultimate has gone off.
  • Zanir wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    SEE was cheesing, JMK is not

    What does this even mean? How is "cheese" defined? Can someone please tell me what exactly was illegitimate about using characters that existed in the game and taking advantage of their interactions? This made no sense when they nerfed the stealth counter and it makes less sense every time someone calls it "cheese".

    To me it seems as though "cheese" in this case means "JMK owners didn't like it". Which is a bad reason and YOU KNOW IT IS.

    Cheese is a term Karen's use to describe how they lost a GAC match
  • Kyno
    31980 posts Moderator
    Zanir wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    SEE was cheesing, JMK is not

    What does this even mean? How is "cheese" defined? Can someone please tell me what exactly was illegitimate about using characters that existed in the game and taking advantage of their interactions? This made no sense when they nerfed the stealth counter and it makes less sense every time someone calls it "cheese".

    To me it seems as though "cheese" in this case means "JMK owners didn't like it". Which is a bad reason and YOU KNOW IT IS.
    crzydroid wrote: »
    GAS fives chewie vs SLKR was a cheese due to poor AI.

    SEE and nightsisters is not a cheese imo. Just good use of game mechanics.

    I think part of the cheese is the AI error where units who could ignore taunt simply weren't.


    This. It has. Nothing to do with who did or did not like it.
  • Zanir
    333 posts Member
    Kyno wrote: »
    Zanir wrote: »
    Ultra wrote: »
    SEE was cheesing, JMK is not

    What does this even mean? How is "cheese" defined? Can someone please tell me what exactly was illegitimate about using characters that existed in the game and taking advantage of their interactions? This made no sense when they nerfed the stealth counter and it makes less sense every time someone calls it "cheese".

    To me it seems as though "cheese" in this case means "JMK owners didn't like it". Which is a bad reason and YOU KNOW IT IS.
    crzydroid wrote: »
    GAS fives chewie vs SLKR was a cheese due to poor AI.

    SEE and nightsisters is not a cheese imo. Just good use of game mechanics.

    I think part of the cheese is the AI error where units who could ignore taunt simply weren't.


    This. It has. Nothing to do with who did or did not like it.

    JMK CAT vs SEE, SASS, Acolyte, Zombie

    Taunt ignore vs stealth and SEE's unique debuff that makes him untargetable if there's another Sith ally alive (and SASS is in stealth and JMK didn't ignore stealth).

    Your argument is invalid because the SEE stealth counter didn't depend on Zombie taunting, it depended on stealth, Deceived and Zombie being immortal as long as there is another NS ally.

    I don't understand how people still think this was about Taunt.
  • Zanir
    333 posts Member
    crzydroid wrote: »
    GAS fives chewie vs SLKR was a cheese due to poor AI.

    SEE and nightsisters is not a cheese imo. Just good use of game mechanics.

    I think part of the cheese is the AI error where units who could ignore taunt simply weren't.

    Otherwise, people could make arguments about cheap and possibly undergeared characters that weren't meant to synergize with a GL taking down a powerful squad. Suppose arguments could be made either way. But they should definitely not just be focusing on zombie after ultimate has gone off.

    See my post above. Zombie Taunt was like, the 4th thing going on in that SEE counter and the least important. Hell, once Zombie got killed twice she couldn't counter and re-taunt, but she was still the only viable target as long as the attacking enemy was Deceived and SASS and Acolyte were in stealth.

    I mean, nothing about Taunt interactions changed in JMK's kit description in that update, he was already ignoring taunt, and his allies could during High Ground. They gave him prot ignore, stealth dispel and Sith can't counter SO SEE COULDN'T RE-APPLY DECEIVED WHEN HE HAD RETRIBUTION UP AFTER USING LINK.

    I guess apologists gonna apologize.
  • The taunt ignore working as intended hurt the SLKR counter more. I used to run that (was hella fun btw) and for reasons unknown, despite taunt ignore being a thing, zombie got targeted a lot. Which means Daka could stack obscene amount of health while SLKR could continue siphoning uninterrupted. Post AI changes, that counter is just dead.
  • Zanir
    333 posts Member
    edited October 9
    khelzac wrote: »
    The taunt ignore working as intended hurt the SLKR counter more. I used to run that (was hella fun btw) and for reasons unknown, despite taunt ignore being a thing, zombie got targeted a lot. Which means Daka could stack obscene amount of health while SLKR could continue siphoning uninterrupted. Post AI changes, that counter is just dead.

    SEE, Armorer, Thrawn, Han, pretaunt still works like clockwork.

    Edit: sorry, I misunderstood your post. I meant SEE vs SLKR, you meant SLKR vs JMK
  • In general, I feel that combining SEE with armorer is not a cheese. Armorer makes up for SEE's main weakness - survivability. Otherwise, he would be too powerful, having a double annihilate and being hard to take down.
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