Grand Arena power difference is ridiculous

Replies

  • As a tangent, strategic losing is a viable option though I haven’t employed it yet. The effect of seasonal squishing has just reinforced its viability. Squishing made clear that 6-6 accounts won’t stay in the same division indefinitely.

    Therefore, controlling when you fight in the lower division makes sense in limited cases for limited time. It won’t have a hugely meaningful impact (I.e greater than 1750 crystals a season or 50 per day average) but if your goal is to maximize crystal income than you should consider scenarios like do I want to be in kyber 1 or 2 for week 4 of a season when I’ll likely need to go 2-1 to end the season in kyber 1. And yes you can plan for that and should plan for that in week one of a season in some cases.

    Will it make sense to tank a match every season? absolutely not but neither should you dismiss it as an unreasonable strategy to never be considered.
  • Anyone who thinks it is actually skill based is hopelessly naive. The system is designed to push you into matches that are impossible to win. Many people have not hit that point yet so they are perfectly happy with their current crystals. That will change as they continue to climb and they can't win anymore. It has nothing to do with skill. You will get matched with impossible to beat opponents eventually and then all those crystals will disappear.
  • You will get matched with impossible to beat opponents eventually and then all those crystals will disappear.

    That's functionally impossible. If everyone reaches a point where it's impossible then everyone will also see easy wins. Someone has to be the dominant player in that scenario.

    If everyone climbs till they can't win they'll drift down, or other players will follow and be easy for those that are above them already. And that's exactly what this system does. You win and climb till you can't and you'll either settle into your spot or keeps fluctuating. No different than arena in this regard. Climb till you can't win anymore, you get pushed back and climb again.
  • el_mago
    521 posts Member
    edited January 22

    TVF wrote: »
    tumblr_mvgd9499pR1qh613ao3_r1_250.gif

    LOL that's exactly who i thought about when i read that post!!
  • NicWester wrote: »
    if there were half as smart as they think they are, would still be ten times smarter than they actually are.

    Math is hard.

  • Anyone who thinks it is actually skill based is hopelessly naive. The system is designed to push you into matches that are impossible to win.
    So both people will lose every time? 🤔
    Starslayer wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    if there were half as smart as they think they are, would still be ten times smarter than they actually are.

    Math is hard.

    Reading is hard. They think they're 20 times smarter than they actually are.
    Ceterum censeo Patientia esse meliat.
  • NicWester wrote: »
    Anyone who thinks it is actually skill based is hopelessly naive. The system is designed to push you into matches that are impossible to win.
    So both people will lose every time? 🤔
    Starslayer wrote: »
    NicWester wrote: »
    if there were half as smart as they think they are, would still be ten times smarter than they actually are.

    Math is hard.

    Reading is hard. They think they're 20 times smarter than they actually are.

    No, the person with the bigger roster, more GLs, will win. That is the intent. It is only skill based until you hit the ceiling. If you are not there yet you won't notice. Maybe you are bad and won't get there, but anyone that punches up is going to get their crystals cut. That is an incredibly stupid system. The point is that it is not worth progressing beyond a certain point because you will get less rewards. I don't know how to explain it any more clearly. If good play results in less rewards the system is trash.
  • The more GL person will only win if they are just as good or better than the lower GL person. When I see my opponent has up to 2 more GLs than me, I still have full expectation that I can win. Sometimes they are a match for me though, and I lose. But I can often still win.

    If they are just a good, but have a better roster, then I should lose. But not everyone is as good as each other. Plus RNG. This is why it is still a game, not just decided on rosters before you start.

    Don't throw in the towel after looking at their roster. There is a reason that higher GL roster is against you. You're that good. Or they're that bad. Or maybe you have just reached your ceiling. Still worth trying though.
  • The new system strikes me as both fair and logical for a game based on resource management and roster development. If you improve your roster and/or get more skillful at a faster rate than other players, you’ll rise in league/division and see better rewards. If the opposite happens, you’ll fall and see worse rewards. If you’re in a bracket with players with higher GP than you, it means that you’re got a good roster for your GP, and that’s a good thing.
  • My opponent has 4 gl’s to my 3 this round. They put all 4 on defence, 2 at the top, 2 at the bottom. I put one at the bottom. I cleared the bottom of their defence, and all bar 1 gl at the top. If they can’t beat my gl without a gl then I’ll win. And if I lose then fair play. Just cos someone has more tools doesn’t mean they know how to use them properly.
  • Gorgus wrote: »
    If you’re in a bracket with players with higher GP than you, it means that you’re got a good roster for your GP, and that’s a good thing.
    No, it's not a good thing. On my alt I am 2.2 mil gp, no GL yet. Last round there was a guy with 4.5 mil gp and GL Rey, this round I am facing right now another 4.5 mil gp, which seems to be deliberately inactive. He lost the first round, as I did too. His teams are auto-deployed. The same thing with that one with GL Rey. They were inactive, so no, it doesnt mean I have a good roster for my gp. No no no...

  • el_mago wrote: »
    I feel like people are fundamentally misunderstanding how the skill rating works.

    This. It dont matter how much GP you got, you are matched against people with the same skill, im sitting at 3272 rating and I will face anyone with the rating of 3310 to 3610. It doesn't matter if that person got 9 mil gp or 1 mil gp

    This is incorrect. Claiming people are misunderstanding skill rating, and then proceeding to misunderstand skill rating.

    You are not matched against people ONLY with the same skill. Because skill rating does NOT only reflect skill. Skill rating also reflects activity.

    Someone who is highly skilled but only plays 50% of matches will be "Skill Rated", as an example, with someone less skilled who plays 100% of matches.

    Therefor,e you have misunderstood skill rating.
  • Xland wrote: »
    Gorgus wrote: »
    If you’re in a bracket with players with higher GP than you, it means that you’re got a good roster for your GP, and that’s a good thing.
    No, it's not a good thing. On my alt I am 2.2 mil gp, no GL yet. Last round there was a guy with 4.5 mil gp and GL Rey, this round I am facing right now another 4.5 mil gp, which seems to be deliberately inactive. He lost the first round, as I did too. His teams are auto-deployed. The same thing with that one with GL Rey. They were inactive, so no, it doesnt mean I have a good roster for my gp. No no no...

    Well... it could also mean your opponent is bad at the game or doesn't care.

    I think the big issue is that some folks don't want to accept a long-run 50% win rate. And they don't like that doing so will require some unfair matches along the way.
  • Xland
    25 posts Member
    edited January 22
    Xland wrote: »
    Gorgus wrote: »
    If you’re in a bracket with players with higher GP than you, it means that you’re got a good roster for your GP, and that’s a good thing.
    No, it's not a good thing. On my alt I am 2.2 mil gp, no GL yet. Last round there was a guy with 4.5 mil gp and GL Rey, this round I am facing right now another 4.5 mil gp, which seems to be deliberately inactive. He lost the first round, as I did too. His teams are auto-deployed. The same thing with that one with GL Rey. They were inactive, so no, it doesnt mean I have a good roster for my gp. No no no...

    Well... it could also mean your opponent is bad at the game or doesn't care.

    I think the big issue is that some folks don't want to accept a long-run 50% win rate. And they don't like that doing so will require some unfair matches along the way.
    No, they can't be bad. Looking at their roster, I simply can't win, period. Not in a billion years. Oh, being inactive is something else, auto-deploy gives me a victory against a guy double my gp. I don't know what to make of this system, it's something fishy about it, I didn't like the old one either, it was annoying trying to fulfill those quests for additional points.
  • Xland wrote: »
    No, they can't be bad. Looking at their roster, I simply can't win, period.

    Unless.. they're really bad at the game.
    Xland wrote: »
    I don't know what to make of this system, it's something fishy about it

    What? Seriously, what is fishy about it? Call me crazy, but I think matching us up against opponents who have won and lost to similar caliber opponents as I have is pretty darn fair.

    It does sound pretty volatile in the lower leagues; I'll concede that. But at least in my SR range of K1, it's already leading to very competitive and engaging matchups. In the old system, I won 90% of my fights without any effort or scouting just because of how lean my roster was and how arbitrary the MM wwas.
  • Gorgus
    114 posts Member
    edited January 22
    Xland wrote: »
    Gorgus wrote: »
    If you’re in a bracket with players with higher GP than you, it means that you’re got a good roster for your GP, and that’s a good thing.
    No, it's not a good thing. On my alt I am 2.2 mil gp, no GL yet. Last round there was a guy with 4.5 mil gp and GL Rey, this round I am facing right now another 4.5 mil gp, which seems to be deliberately inactive. He lost the first round, as I did too. His teams are auto-deployed. The same thing with that one with GL Rey. They were inactive, so no, it doesnt mean I have a good roster for my gp. No no no...

    Well... it could also mean your opponent is bad at the game or doesn't care.

    I think the big issue is that some folks don't want to accept a long-run 50% win rate. And they don't like that doing so will require some unfair matches along the way.

    I think that is the issue for some folks who are unhappy about the new system. I would offer that any matchmaking system which tends to let someone dominate their bracket every time by definition means that someone else is often getting crushed. If everyone ends up in divisions where they tend to finish around .500, it’s way better to be in a higher division where you get a lot better rewards for that .500 finish. I will also concede that the first few months will have some volatility and sometimes funky matchups. But the devs specifically said this would be the case and properly set expectations, IMO.
  • Xland wrote: »
    No, they can't be bad. Looking at their roster, I simply can't win, period.

    Unless.. they're really bad at the game.
    Xland wrote: »
    I don't know what to make of this system, it's something fishy about it

    What? Seriously, what is fishy about it? Call me crazy, but I think matching us up against opponents who have won and lost to similar caliber opponents as I have is pretty darn fair.

    It does sound pretty volatile in the lower leagues; I'll concede that. But at least in my SR range of K1, it's already leading to very competitive and engaging matchups. In the old system, I won 90% of my fights without any effort or scouting just because of how lean my roster was and how arbitrary the MM wwas.

    Its a game, and especially a bad one which I use to play for passing the time and meanwhile reflecting about human nature. This company is the perfect example of "how to NOT create a game" :D So no, not seriously...

    Dont like it, the rewards are better now but everybody gets them so no big accomplishment. If you are k1 and probably 7-8 mil gp, would you be kind enough to give advice to players like yourself with the same gp ? And if you already know that a 4.5 mil gp cant win against my 2.2 because he sucks and Im a genius, not because he deliberately doesnt fight, well...you must be a prophet reading the stars. :wink:
  • Xland wrote: »
    Gorgus wrote: »
    If you’re in a bracket with players with higher GP than you, it means that you’re got a good roster for your GP, and that’s a good thing.
    No, it's not a good thing. On my alt I am 2.2 mil gp, no GL yet. Last round there was a guy with 4.5 mil gp and GL Rey, this round I am facing right now another 4.5 mil gp, which seems to be deliberately inactive. He lost the first round, as I did too. His teams are auto-deployed. The same thing with that one with GL Rey. They were inactive, so no, it doesnt mean I have a good roster for my gp. No no no...

    Well... it could also mean your opponent is bad at the game or doesn't care.

    I think the big issue is that some folks don't want to accept a long-run 50% win rate. And they don't like that doing so will require some unfair matches along the way.

    I think a lot of people don't want to wait a few months while their skill rating matches them against the appropriate opponents. A few month of not having fun would make a lot of people consider a different pastime.
  • Jakdnels wrote: »
    Xland wrote: »
    Gorgus wrote: »
    If you’re in a bracket with players with higher GP than you, it means that you’re got a good roster for your GP, and that’s a good thing.
    No, it's not a good thing. On my alt I am 2.2 mil gp, no GL yet. Last round there was a guy with 4.5 mil gp and GL Rey, this round I am facing right now another 4.5 mil gp, which seems to be deliberately inactive. He lost the first round, as I did too. His teams are auto-deployed. The same thing with that one with GL Rey. They were inactive, so no, it doesnt mean I have a good roster for my gp. No no no...

    Well... it could also mean your opponent is bad at the game or doesn't care.

    I think the big issue is that some folks don't want to accept a long-run 50% win rate. And they don't like that doing so will require some unfair matches along the way.

    I think a lot of people don't want to wait a few months while their skill rating matches them against the appropriate opponents. A few month of not having fun would make a lot of people consider a different pastime.

    Fair. CG could have put more effort than they did into initial seeding.
  • ImaSmakya wrote: »
    Wed_Santa wrote: »
    That would only be true if it was the median player not the average. There might be one realllllly dumb player that skews the mean.
    You know, who doesn’t understand averages…

    And when two people are talking about how dumb the average person is, probability says one of them is below the median line.

    Just want to add to this, but with the mod screen being a mess, it can be confusing. Also when the new characters for past while have very complex kits, it can lead to characters not being played optimally.
  • Jakdnels wrote: »
    Xland wrote: »
    Gorgus wrote: »
    If you’re in a bracket with players with higher GP than you, it means that you’re got a good roster for your GP, and that’s a good thing.
    No, it's not a good thing. On my alt I am 2.2 mil gp, no GL yet. Last round there was a guy with 4.5 mil gp and GL Rey, this round I am facing right now another 4.5 mil gp, which seems to be deliberately inactive. He lost the first round, as I did too. His teams are auto-deployed. The same thing with that one with GL Rey. They were inactive, so no, it doesnt mean I have a good roster for my gp. No no no...

    Well... it could also mean your opponent is bad at the game or doesn't care.

    I think the big issue is that some folks don't want to accept a long-run 50% win rate. And they don't like that doing so will require some unfair matches along the way.

    I think a lot of people don't want to wait a few months while their skill rating matches them against the appropriate opponents. A few month of not having fun would make a lot of people consider a different pastime.

    Don’t worry about that, a lot of people complained for months about the old matchmaking system and still play the game.
  • Starslayer wrote: »
    Jakdnels wrote: »
    Xland wrote: »
    Gorgus wrote: »
    If you’re in a bracket with players with higher GP than you, it means that you’re got a good roster for your GP, and that’s a good thing.
    No, it's not a good thing. On my alt I am 2.2 mil gp, no GL yet. Last round there was a guy with 4.5 mil gp and GL Rey, this round I am facing right now another 4.5 mil gp, which seems to be deliberately inactive. He lost the first round, as I did too. His teams are auto-deployed. The same thing with that one with GL Rey. They were inactive, so no, it doesnt mean I have a good roster for my gp. No no no...

    Well... it could also mean your opponent is bad at the game or doesn't care.

    I think the big issue is that some folks don't want to accept a long-run 50% win rate. And they don't like that doing so will require some unfair matches along the way.

    I think a lot of people don't want to wait a few months while their skill rating matches them against the appropriate opponents. A few month of not having fun would make a lot of people consider a different pastime.

    Don’t worry about that, a lot of people complained for months about the old matchmaking system and still play the game.

    That was before the GAC rewards mattered
  • LordHelmet10001
    33 posts Member
    edited January 24
    GP matchup examples from first few rounds were off as people are still fluctuating to their proper rating. Now though that it is starting to balance out it’s usually a good thing to see a higher GP player as your matchup as they will most likely have garbage roster/mods. It’s the low GP matchups you want to watch out for. They will have all their GP concentrated into usable teams.
    Post edited by LordHelmet10001 on
  • el_mago wrote: »
    I feel like people are fundamentally misunderstanding how the skill rating works.

    This. It dont matter how much GP you got, you are matched against people with the same skill, im sitting at 3272 rating and I will face anyone with the rating of 3310 to 3610. It doesn't matter if that person got 9 mil gp or 1 mil gp

    This is incorrect. Claiming people are misunderstanding skill rating, and then proceeding to misunderstand skill rating.

    You are not matched against people ONLY with the same skill. Because skill rating does NOT only reflect skill. Skill rating also reflects activity.

    Someone who is highly skilled but only plays 50% of matches will be "Skill Rated", as an example, with someone less skilled who plays 100% of matches.

    Therefor,e you have misunderstood skill rating.

    See thats what im talking about, people still dont understand what the skill rating is, its not your personal skill, its not a FPS game, its not based on your "skill" (this game doesnt take that much skill anyways) its based on winning and losing, so again it dont matter how much GP you got, you will face people at the same rating as you, some could be at 8 mil gp and still face 2 mil gp players because he doesnt even play the game, just joins in and does 1 battle.
  • REWORK_MACE
    42 posts Member
    edited January 23
    Me: 4xGL 99xG13 5*Executor 7.8m GP

    Opp: 6xGL 200xG13 7*Executor R9s galore, R8 SK, R8 Boba2 etc 9.5. GP


    Having "Whale Fails" Yo yo up and down isn't fun for those of us on the down side.

    My opp can't beat their equals, the spend loads of money but are terrible so they will just yo yo back and forth? Meaning they lose to people with similar rosters who aren't terrible at the game, and get bumped down to win vs much smaller rosters only to get back to where they belong, but again they are terrible.

    The rest of my pool was pretty good. I'm ok with mm but the yo-yo whale fails are a bummer.
  • The sooner people accept the fact that we're being pushed into a 50% win/loss record the better. I know it's hard for folks who are used to going 10-2 to 12-0 every season to accept that fact but it's going to happen. Yes there will be exceptions at the very tip of the spear where the 9.5m gp+ krakens that are also good at the game happen to reside but for the rest just accept this fact. The reward for being good for your GP is to promote to a higher division than others at your GP. You'll earn a higher daily income and there are more crystals for both wins and losses and the end of week/season rewards.

    But to the OPs point that he had a big discrepancy in GP vs his opponent and those that keep saying give it time it will balance out, some of the 'on paper' matchups are going to get worse. At least and the mid and lower divisions. Sure there will be some matches that are competitive, but there are a lot of people out there that hate GAC and still sign up every week and don't even attack ( not even taking the effort to send in 1 team on auto to ensure 2nd place rewards ). These guys are going to keep dropping down the ranks and instead of the OP at 1.4m facing a 4m account he's going to be facing a 6m account then a 7m. Maybe these guys will eventually wake up and see how easy the win will be but who knows :)

    These guys would be better off not signing up for Gac at all since they're not actually getting any crystals for 0 effort. At least they would stay in their original division and collect a higher daily income. Yes, I know the Q/A said that you were supposed to take a 1-2 record for not signing up but that isn't happening. No change in SR whatsoever for not signing up.
  • MilHanso
    184 posts Member
    edited January 24
    Me: 4xGL 99xG13 5*Executor 7.8m GP

    Opp: 6xGL 200xG13 7*Executor R9s galore, R8 SK, R8 Boba2 etc 9.5. GP


    Having "Whale Fails" Yo yo up and down isn't fun for those of us on the down side.

    My opp can't beat their equals, the spend loads of money but are terrible so they will just yo yo back and forth? Meaning they lose to people with similar rosters who aren't terrible at the game, and get bumped down to win vs much smaller rosters only to get back to where they belong, but again they are terrible.

    The rest of my pool was pretty good. I'm ok with mm but the yo-yo whale fails are a bummer.

    Couldn't agree more... I have 3.5m GP, on the second round I faced one with 4.9m GP and a GL, he didn't deploy so I was able beat the lower part of the map, he saw that he had a TON MORE SQUADS than myself so he proceeded to clean my lower part and one squad on the upper part so it was an easy win for him. My next opponent has 5.1m GP and didn't deploy also, I just opened the front row of the lower part and was about to clear the back when the game crashed and I lost the only squad that could defeat his last squad. I'm just waiting for him to realise that he has a TON MORE SQUADS than I to do the same the last one did. So I'll be 8th in my bracket because of that. Like someone once said: "This is outrageous, it's unfair!".

    There should be a bigger penalty for those that don't deploy their squads.
    "You could warn me when I do something bad. Blink once for dark side, twice for light"
Sign In or Register to comment.