Many guilds above 500mil gp are sandbaging. They prefer to have like 3 wins than 4 loses, despite that part of their guild is playing less tw, it is still better for them in rewards. It is funny when 2 such guilds are matched . My guild is considering doing the same, we are like 450mil and we would like to avoid guilds 550mil who can easily play in 40 players against guilds like mine. If game allows that, why not.
Not saying that guilds don't try to game it but to say *many* do it with your proof merely anecdotal from a few people you know isnt proof of many. TW is by far the worst game mode by a mile. Its completely unenjoyable. Expecting 50 people to be on call for 24 hours is frankly not fun nor realistic for most people that have lives. My guild is TW optional with the only TW rule of if you join you participate. We hardly ever get full guild join and that, frankly, is normal and ok and we dont apologize for it at all. That isn't sandbagging. And I'd bet that theres more of this than actual gaming of the MM process where guilds are making certain folks sit and not get rewards even if they want to play so that most of the others can. This is a game and asking people to be on or availalbe for that long is just stupid. TW needs to change to make it more individual so people that have families or work or whatever can do what they need to do when they have the time to do it in the day
Is "Mandalorian Horizon" your guild?
yes...altho apparently we used a bunch of weird characters at inception that there are unfixable holes in our name now
At my guild we have won our last 21 TWs. During that time we’ve never had a full 50/50, and I’d guess the average is about 42 or 43. We do make TW a priority, everyone has omi and team requirements, but players only sign up if they can be active in all phases. There’s no sandbagging though, it’s just people not having the time because of real life commitments. Last time around we had 32,l sign up, as a combination of people having commitments and a few people having strikes for poor choices in previous TWs (the first time in a while). No one was told or asked to sit out for a better matchup, and no one was in any of the previous 20 either.
I don’t buy that sandbagging happens because ‘someone in a guild told me so’ or because only 41 or 42 people signed up. If guild officers are ordering it then they’re d-bags and are only hurting their guilds, but I’d expect it’s the vast minority.
Account started June 2020. 100% FTP. 8.2m GP. JMK, JML, SLKR, and SEE. Exe and Levi. Ally code 117-269-921. Swgoh.gg
“TW is not mandatory in my guild but we are not sandbagging” hahah.. yes, you with a guild where only 40 players join TWs, are sandbagging. Call it what you want.
At my guild we have won our last 21 TWs. During that time we’ve never had a full 50/50, and I’d guess the average is about 42 or 43. We do make TW a priority, everyone has omi and team requirements, but players only sign up if they can be active in all phases. There’s no sandbagging though, it’s just people not having the time because of real life commitments. Last time around we had 32,l sign up, as a combination of people having commitments and a few people having strikes for poor choices in previous TWs (the first time in a while). No one was told or asked to sit out for a better matchup, and no one was in any of the previous 20 either.
I don’t buy that sandbagging happens because ‘someone in a guild told me so’ or because only 41 or 42 people signed up. If guild officers are ordering it then they’re d-bags and are only hurting their guilds, but I’d expect it’s the vast minority.
Pls tell me your guild isn't "Burns when I PvP"...
“TW is not mandatory in my guild but we are not sandbagging” hahah.. yes, you with a guild where only 40 players join TWs, are sandbagging. Call it what you want.
Sandbagging is intentional. A guild with low signups because they don't make TW compulsory is just.... a guild with low signups.
F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
Sandbagging is intentional. A guild with low signups because they don't make TW compulsory is just.... a guild with low signups.
Well, in my guild sandbagging is not intentional. Officers ask for everyone TO PLAY. There is a request for those not able to attack or defend to NOT take part...but no real control...
AFAIK it is better to have MORE players for rewards...never did the math, but i am under the impression that having 40 players in and only 30 playing is better than having 30 players in even if all are playing.
MY POINT...i am pretty sure MOST guilds can't really control or dont care that much...it should change as you get closer to the top...but life in the middle/bottom guilds is not as planned as some think around here...
“TW is not mandatory in my guild but we are not sandbagging” hahah.. yes, you with a guild where only 40 players join TWs, are sandbagging. Call it what you want.
Sandbagging is intentional. A guild with low signups because they don't make TW compulsory is just.... a guild with low signups.
This is the point exactly that I’ve been trying to make. A guild not having 100% sign up isn’t sandbagging, if that was the case almost every guild would be “sandbagging”.
Account started June 2020. 100% FTP. 8.2m GP. JMK, JML, SLKR, and SEE. Exe and Levi. Ally code 117-269-921. Swgoh.gg
“TW is not mandatory in my guild but we are not sandbagging” hahah.. yes, you with a guild where only 40 players join TWs, are sandbagging. Call it what you want.
Sandbagging is intentional. A guild with low signups because they don't make TW compulsory is just.... a guild with low signups.
I am going to have to guess that people don't care if they sign up because they get favorable matchups out of it, intentional or not. I'd also venture a guess that if the system was different and you were stuck in a bracket and had to play another 530M guild as opposed to a 430M guild, all of a sudden TW participation would become mandatory.
“TW is not mandatory in my guild but we are not sandbagging” hahah.. yes, you with a guild where only 40 players join TWs, are sandbagging. Call it what you want.
Sandbagging is intentional. A guild with low signups because they don't make TW compulsory is just.... a guild with low signups.
I am going to have to guess that people don't care if they sign up because they get favorable matchups out of it, intentional or not. I'd also venture a guess that if the system was different and you were stuck in a bracket and had to play another 530M guild as opposed to a 430M guild, all of a sudden TW participation would become mandatory.
Yes. This is true. Sudennly those guys wouldnt have 21 wins in row but half of it or less.
“TW is not mandatory in my guild but we are not sandbagging” hahah.. yes, you with a guild where only 40 players join TWs, are sandbagging. Call it what you want.
Sandbagging is intentional. A guild with low signups because they don't make TW compulsory is just.... a guild with low signups.
I am going to have to guess that people don't care if they sign up because they get favorable matchups out of it, intentional or not. I'd also venture a guess that if the system was different and you were stuck in a bracket and had to play another 530M guild as opposed to a 430M guild, all of a sudden TW participation would become mandatory.
And droves and droves would quit immediately, or we'd end up with a bunch of Wakanda guilds setting Jawa and Han walls. Personally, I cannot commit the time for weekend TW for about half the year, and so cannot be in a guild that requires TW sign up and participation.
And droves and droves would quit immediately, or we'd end up with a bunch of Wakanda guilds setting Jawa and Han walls. Personally, I cannot commit the time for weekend TW for about half the year, and so cannot be in a guild that requires TW sign up and participation.
Definitely not making this about you.
Just saying that currently there is no penalty and only benefit. And it's to the detriment of smaller GP guilds that are having 49-50 sign up but are not at the same competitive level.
Would be a pretty simple fix to add the first filter as total guild gp and then followed by participants. Wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel. 35 people from a 550M GP guild with 15 not signing up would absolute smoke a full participant 385M GP guild. They are playing at a totally different level.
And droves and droves would quit immediately, or we'd end up with a bunch of Wakanda guilds setting Jawa and Han walls. Personally, I cannot commit the time for weekend TW for about half the year, and so cannot be in a guild that requires TW sign up and participation.
Definitely not making this about you.
Just saying that currently there is no penalty and only benefit. And it's to the detriment of smaller GP guilds that are having 49-50 sign up but are not at the same competitive level.
Would be a pretty simple fix to add the first filter as total guild gp and then followed by participants. Wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel. 35 people from a 550M GP guild with 15 not signing up would absolute smoke a full participant 385M GP guild. They are playing at a totally different level.
Didn't really mean to make it about me, was just adding in my perspective about any guild that would require sign up, or how I would react if CG made it like TB and just everyone had to do it. I am one of the ones with IRL conflicts. Once April rolls around I will be unable to participate properly in 50% of the TW's, and I know this is not isolated as a Me problem.
There are certainly several small tweaks they could make, but I suspect the W/L is about where they want it so they're reluctant, much like GA "MM". Rumors have been that TW is getting a rework for a while now though, so hopefully they just change the whole mode. With any luck, those changes will make it more enjoyable and more fair.
“TW is not mandatory in my guild but we are not sandbagging” hahah.. yes, you with a guild where only 40 players join TWs, are sandbagging. Call it what you want.
Sandbagging is intentional. A guild with low signups because they don't make TW compulsory is just.... a guild with low signups.
I am going to have to guess that people don't care if they sign up because they get favorable matchups out of it, intentional or not. I'd also venture a guess that if the system was different and you were stuck in a bracket and had to play another 530M guild as opposed to a 430M guild, all of a sudden TW participation would become mandatory.
Your guess would be wrong. It never has been mandatory in my guild and never will be so long as I'm the GL. We encourage participation, but don't punish those that choose not to. We encourage TW omis, but require none. We ask that people play IF they sign up - joining and doing nothing is the only way you can get in trouble in my guild with regard to TW. But no one is ever told that they have to sign up, or told that they're not allowed to.
This is about providing a welcoming and comfortable guild environment to our players and has nothing to do with chasing a W/L record. If that were the case I think our current win% would be higher than 47%. It's also been much worse than that in the past and we were still fine with it. Obviously we prefer to win but not at the cost of micro-managing and punishing people and making the atmosphere in the guild feel like boot camp. And for what? So we can say everyone joined? Is there an achievement for that? Extra rewards for having 50/50? That's the wrong goal, and the wrong priority - at least for us. To each their own - it's not our style.
F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
Your guess would be wrong. It never has been mandatory in my guild and never will be so long as I'm the GL. We encourage participation, but don't punish those that choose not to. We encourage TW omis, but require none. We ask that people play IF they sign up - joining and doing nothing is the only way you can get in trouble in my guild with regard to TW. But no one is ever told that they have to sign up, or told that they're not allowed to.
This is about providing a welcoming and comfortable guild environment to our players and has nothing to do with chasing a W/L record. If that were the case I think our current win% would be higher than 47%. It's also been much worse than that in the past and we were still fine with it. Obviously we prefer to win but not at the cost of micro-managing and punishing people and making the atmosphere in the guild feel like boot camp. And for what? So we can say everyone joined? Is there an achievement for that? Extra rewards for having 50/50? That's the wrong goal, and the wrong priority - at least for us. To each their own - it's not our style.
Which is fine, you should be able to run your guild however you want. All i am saying is they need to make similar GP guilds face similar GP guilds. Doesn't seem to be in the algorithm currently.
Your guess would be wrong. It never has been mandatory in my guild and never will be so long as I'm the GL. We encourage participation, but don't punish those that choose not to. We encourage TW omis, but require none. We ask that people play IF they sign up - joining and doing nothing is the only way you can get in trouble in my guild with regard to TW. But no one is ever told that they have to sign up, or told that they're not allowed to.
This is about providing a welcoming and comfortable guild environment to our players and has nothing to do with chasing a W/L record. If that were the case I think our current win% would be higher than 47%. It's also been much worse than that in the past and we were still fine with it. Obviously we prefer to win but not at the cost of micro-managing and punishing people and making the atmosphere in the guild feel like boot camp. And for what? So we can say everyone joined? Is there an achievement for that? Extra rewards for having 50/50? That's the wrong goal, and the wrong priority - at least for us. To each their own - it's not our style.
Which is fine, you should be able to run your guild however you want. All i am saying is they need to make similar GP guilds face similar GP guilds. Doesn't seem to be in the algorithm currently.
Because that would create a whole host of problems which would arguably make the system worse. If guilds could only face others in within a certain GP range the inevitable conclusion would be guilds forcing members to sign up, just in case the opposition gets all 50 of theirs. That has no benefits for anyone, and would push a lot of players out of the game. Players need to be able to pick and choose what game modes they want to engage with, and guilds should have that choice too as to what they focus on.
Account started June 2020. 100% FTP. 8.2m GP. JMK, JML, SLKR, and SEE. Exe and Levi. Ally code 117-269-921. Swgoh.gg
Your guess would be wrong. It never has been mandatory in my guild and never will be so long as I'm the GL. We encourage participation, but don't punish those that choose not to. We encourage TW omis, but require none. We ask that people play IF they sign up - joining and doing nothing is the only way you can get in trouble in my guild with regard to TW. But no one is ever told that they have to sign up, or told that they're not allowed to.
This is about providing a welcoming and comfortable guild environment to our players and has nothing to do with chasing a W/L record. If that were the case I think our current win% would be higher than 47%. It's also been much worse than that in the past and we were still fine with it. Obviously we prefer to win but not at the cost of micro-managing and punishing people and making the atmosphere in the guild feel like boot camp. And for what? So we can say everyone joined? Is there an achievement for that? Extra rewards for having 50/50? That's the wrong goal, and the wrong priority - at least for us. To each their own - it's not our style.
Which is fine, you should be able to run your guild however you want. All i am saying is they need to make similar GP guilds face similar GP guilds. Doesn't seem to be in the algorithm currently.
Because that would create a whole host of problems which would arguably make the system worse. If guilds could only face others in within a certain GP range the inevitable conclusion would be guilds forcing members to sign up, just in case the opposition gets all 50 of theirs. That has no benefits for anyone, and would push a lot of players out of the game. Players need to be able to pick and choose what game modes they want to engage with, and guilds should have that choice too as to what they focus on.
So you are saying that is ok that guilds with 550mil minimum fights with guilds 400mil. They do not sandbagg couse officers in those guilds didnt push for it. Those guild dont rotate their players in tw, there is always same crew 40 players who do tw, 10 players who has life never play tw, this guilds are not sure about winning couse 30 gl leja and 30 leviathans dont make difference.
Yes?
Because that would create a whole host of problems which would arguably make the system worse. If guilds could only face others in within a certain GP range the inevitable conclusion would be guilds forcing members to sign up, just in case the opposition gets all 50 of theirs. That has no benefits for anyone, and would push a lot of players out of the game. Players need to be able to pick and choose what game modes they want to engage with, and guilds should have that choice too as to what they focus on.
The next set of the filter after guild GP would be # joined. Should be closeish. Players can pick if they want to play or not, as said above by a guild leader they will never enforce manadatory sign up. And would probably be that way across a lot of guilds.
The point is they are not rewarded with easier match ups due to people choosing to do other things besides TW.
I think when and if they rework TW - and I hope they're looking at doing that - whatever problems there are in match making will be addressed then. I 100% don't expect them to touch it until then. In fact I wouldn't want them to because that would make the rework less of a priority.
And if we're being honest, the rewards aren't so different between a win and a loss that it's really a game breaking thing.
F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
Your guess would be wrong. It never has been mandatory in my guild and never will be so long as I'm the GL. We encourage participation, but don't punish those that choose not to. We encourage TW omis, but require none. We ask that people play IF they sign up - joining and doing nothing is the only way you can get in trouble in my guild with regard to TW. But no one is ever told that they have to sign up, or told that they're not allowed to.
This is about providing a welcoming and comfortable guild environment to our players and has nothing to do with chasing a W/L record. If that were the case I think our current win% would be higher than 47%. It's also been much worse than that in the past and we were still fine with it. Obviously we prefer to win but not at the cost of micro-managing and punishing people and making the atmosphere in the guild feel like boot camp. And for what? So we can say everyone joined? Is there an achievement for that? Extra rewards for having 50/50? That's the wrong goal, and the wrong priority - at least for us. To each their own - it's not our style.
Which is fine, you should be able to run your guild however you want. All i am saying is they need to make similar GP guilds face similar GP guilds. Doesn't seem to be in the algorithm currently.
Because that would create a whole host of problems which would arguably make the system worse. If guilds could only face others in within a certain GP range the inevitable conclusion would be guilds forcing members to sign up, just in case the opposition gets all 50 of theirs. That has no benefits for anyone, and would push a lot of players out of the game. Players need to be able to pick and choose what game modes they want to engage with, and guilds should have that choice too as to what they focus on.
So you are saying that is ok that guilds with 550mil minimum fights with guilds 400mil. They do not sandbagg couse officers in those guilds didnt push for it. Those guild dont rotate their players in tw, there is always same crew 40 players who do tw, 10 players who has life never play tw, this guilds are not sure about winning couse 30 gl leja and 30 leviathans dont make difference.
Yes?
Absolutely that’s ok. If guild members choose not to play TW that’s entirely on them and the rest of the guild shouldn’t be punished because some of their guildies have other priorities. It’s just a game after all.
Because that would create a whole host of problems which would arguably make the system worse. If guilds could only face others in within a certain GP range the inevitable conclusion would be guilds forcing members to sign up, just in case the opposition gets all 50 of theirs. That has no benefits for anyone, and would push a lot of players out of the game. Players need to be able to pick and choose what game modes they want to engage with, and guilds should have that choice too as to what they focus on.
The next set of the filter after guild GP would be # joined. Should be closeish. Players can pick if they want to play or not, as said above by a guild leader they will never enforce manadatory sign up. And would probably be that way across a lot of guilds.
The point is they are not rewarded with easier match ups due to people choosing to do other things besides TW.
That’s a perfectly reasonable suggestion, and if they could implement it that would be great. The only downside of considering average GP would be that it’ll push players back towards the issues there were of players withholding upgrades to keep rosters leaner. That then has negative impacts on other parts of the game.
Edit - guildies, not Guildford. D**n autocorrect.
Post edited by Notthatguyfrombefore on
Account started June 2020. 100% FTP. 8.2m GP. JMK, JML, SLKR, and SEE. Exe and Levi. Ally code 117-269-921. Swgoh.gg
Not sure people would hold back gaining GP for TW. Continuing to upgrade your roster for GAC way more important from a resource POC than TW.
And the rewards, besides reroll material, are very close.
Thing i think would happen is you'd have better matchups and TW would be more fun to play. The person being curbstomped isn't having much fun currently.
Your guess would be wrong. It never has been mandatory in my guild and never will be so long as I'm the GL. We encourage participation, but don't punish those that choose not to. We encourage TW omis, but require none. We ask that people play IF they sign up - joining and doing nothing is the only way you can get in trouble in my guild with regard to TW. But no one is ever told that they have to sign up, or told that they're not allowed to.
This is about providing a welcoming and comfortable guild environment to our players and has nothing to do with chasing a W/L record. If that were the case I think our current win% would be higher than 47%. It's also been much worse than that in the past and we were still fine with it. Obviously we prefer to win but not at the cost of micro-managing and punishing people and making the atmosphere in the guild feel like boot camp. And for what? So we can say everyone joined? Is there an achievement for that? Extra rewards for having 50/50? That's the wrong goal, and the wrong priority - at least for us. To each their own - it's not our style.
Which is fine, you should be able to run your guild however you want. All i am saying is they need to make similar GP guilds face similar GP guilds. Doesn't seem to be in the algorithm currently.
Because that would create a whole host of problems which would arguably make the system worse. If guilds could only face others in within a certain GP range the inevitable conclusion would be guilds forcing members to sign up, just in case the opposition gets all 50 of theirs. That has no benefits for anyone, and would push a lot of players out of the game. Players need to be able to pick and choose what game modes they want to engage with, and guilds should have that choice too as to what they focus on.
So you are saying that is ok that guilds with 550mil minimum fights with guilds 400mil. They do not sandbagg couse officers in those guilds didnt push for it. Those guild dont rotate their players in tw, there is always same crew 40 players who do tw, 10 players who has life never play tw, this guilds are not sure about winning couse 30 gl leja and 30 leviathans dont make difference.
Yes?
Absolutely that’s ok. If guild members choose not to play TW that’s entirely on them and the rest of the guild shouldn’t be punished because some of their Guildford have other priorities. It’s just a game after all.
Because that would create a whole host of problems which would arguably make the system worse. If guilds could only face others in within a certain GP range the inevitable conclusion would be guilds forcing members to sign up, just in case the opposition gets all 50 of theirs. That has no benefits for anyone, and would push a lot of players out of the game. Players need to be able to pick and choose what game modes they want to engage with, and guilds should have that choice too as to what they focus on.
The next set of the filter after guild GP would be # joined. Should be closeish. Players can pick if they want to play or not, as said above by a guild leader they will never enforce manadatory sign up. And would probably be that way across a lot of guilds.
The point is they are not rewarded with easier match ups due to people choosing to do other things besides TW.
That’s a perfectly reasonable suggestion, and if they could implement it that would be great. The only downside of considering average GP would be that it’ll push players back towards the issues there were of players withholding upgrades to keep rosters leaner. That then has negative impacts on other parts of the game.
Yes, game. As a player you should feel that is not right. But if you are this kind of player i wouldnt play with you in any game.
Your guess would be wrong. It never has been mandatory in my guild and never will be so long as I'm the GL. We encourage participation, but don't punish those that choose not to. We encourage TW omis, but require none. We ask that people play IF they sign up - joining and doing nothing is the only way you can get in trouble in my guild with regard to TW. But no one is ever told that they have to sign up, or told that they're not allowed to.
This is about providing a welcoming and comfortable guild environment to our players and has nothing to do with chasing a W/L record. If that were the case I think our current win% would be higher than 47%. It's also been much worse than that in the past and we were still fine with it. Obviously we prefer to win but not at the cost of micro-managing and punishing people and making the atmosphere in the guild feel like boot camp. And for what? So we can say everyone joined? Is there an achievement for that? Extra rewards for having 50/50? That's the wrong goal, and the wrong priority - at least for us. To each their own - it's not our style.
Which is fine, you should be able to run your guild however you want. All i am saying is they need to make similar GP guilds face similar GP guilds. Doesn't seem to be in the algorithm currently.
Because that would create a whole host of problems which would arguably make the system worse. If guilds could only face others in within a certain GP range the inevitable conclusion would be guilds forcing members to sign up, just in case the opposition gets all 50 of theirs. That has no benefits for anyone, and would push a lot of players out of the game. Players need to be able to pick and choose what game modes they want to engage with, and guilds should have that choice too as to what they focus on.
So you are saying that is ok that guilds with 550mil minimum fights with guilds 400mil. They do not sandbagg couse officers in those guilds didnt push for it. Those guild dont rotate their players in tw, there is always same crew 40 players who do tw, 10 players who has life never play tw, this guilds are not sure about winning couse 30 gl leja and 30 leviathans dont make difference.
Yes?
Absolutely that’s ok. If guild members choose not to play TW that’s entirely on them and the rest of the guild shouldn’t be punished because some of their Guildford have other priorities. It’s just a game after all.
Because that would create a whole host of problems which would arguably make the system worse. If guilds could only face others in within a certain GP range the inevitable conclusion would be guilds forcing members to sign up, just in case the opposition gets all 50 of theirs. That has no benefits for anyone, and would push a lot of players out of the game. Players need to be able to pick and choose what game modes they want to engage with, and guilds should have that choice too as to what they focus on.
The next set of the filter after guild GP would be # joined. Should be closeish. Players can pick if they want to play or not, as said above by a guild leader they will never enforce manadatory sign up. And would probably be that way across a lot of guilds.
The point is they are not rewarded with easier match ups due to people choosing to do other things besides TW.
That’s a perfectly reasonable suggestion, and if they could implement it that would be great. The only downside of considering average GP would be that it’ll push players back towards the issues there were of players withholding upgrades to keep rosters leaner. That then has negative impacts on other parts of the game.
Yes, game. As a player you should feel that is not right. But if you are this kind of player i wouldnt play with you in any game.
Good, I wouldn't want to play with you either. No need to force participation in guild PVP modes.
Your guess would be wrong. It never has been mandatory in my guild and never will be so long as I'm the GL. We encourage participation, but don't punish those that choose not to. We encourage TW omis, but require none. We ask that people play IF they sign up - joining and doing nothing is the only way you can get in trouble in my guild with regard to TW. But no one is ever told that they have to sign up, or told that they're not allowed to.
This is about providing a welcoming and comfortable guild environment to our players and has nothing to do with chasing a W/L record. If that were the case I think our current win% would be higher than 47%. It's also been much worse than that in the past and we were still fine with it. Obviously we prefer to win but not at the cost of micro-managing and punishing people and making the atmosphere in the guild feel like boot camp. And for what? So we can say everyone joined? Is there an achievement for that? Extra rewards for having 50/50? That's the wrong goal, and the wrong priority - at least for us. To each their own - it's not our style.
Which is fine, you should be able to run your guild however you want. All i am saying is they need to make similar GP guilds face similar GP guilds. Doesn't seem to be in the algorithm currently.
Because that would create a whole host of problems which would arguably make the system worse. If guilds could only face others in within a certain GP range the inevitable conclusion would be guilds forcing members to sign up, just in case the opposition gets all 50 of theirs. That has no benefits for anyone, and would push a lot of players out of the game. Players need to be able to pick and choose what game modes they want to engage with, and guilds should have that choice too as to what they focus on.
So you are saying that is ok that guilds with 550mil minimum fights with guilds 400mil. They do not sandbagg couse officers in those guilds didnt push for it. Those guild dont rotate their players in tw, there is always same crew 40 players who do tw, 10 players who has life never play tw, this guilds are not sure about winning couse 30 gl leja and 30 leviathans dont make difference.
Yes?
Absolutely that’s ok. If guild members choose not to play TW that’s entirely on them and the rest of the guild shouldn’t be punished because some of their Guildford have other priorities. It’s just a game after all.
Because that would create a whole host of problems which would arguably make the system worse. If guilds could only face others in within a certain GP range the inevitable conclusion would be guilds forcing members to sign up, just in case the opposition gets all 50 of theirs. That has no benefits for anyone, and would push a lot of players out of the game. Players need to be able to pick and choose what game modes they want to engage with, and guilds should have that choice too as to what they focus on.
The next set of the filter after guild GP would be # joined. Should be closeish. Players can pick if they want to play or not, as said above by a guild leader they will never enforce manadatory sign up. And would probably be that way across a lot of guilds.
The point is they are not rewarded with easier match ups due to people choosing to do other things besides TW.
That’s a perfectly reasonable suggestion, and if they could implement it that would be great. The only downside of considering average GP would be that it’ll push players back towards the issues there were of players withholding upgrades to keep rosters leaner. That then has negative impacts on other parts of the game.
Yes, game. As a player you should feel that is not right. But if you are this kind of player i wouldnt play with you in any game.
lol...just so i'm clear on your position on this.
Someone has a hard deadline at work.
You: You peasant...you have to work for money???? F you play TW!
Someone has a date night.
You: Who cares? Relationships are overrated. Play TW!
My kid is sick.
You: That's what bandaids are for. Slap one on and Play TW!
I got into a car accident.
You: Are you hurt or are you injured? Which one? Who cares...play TW!!!
Its a game dude. Other people dont have to enjoy the game less just so you enjoy the game more
Your guess would be wrong. It never has been mandatory in my guild and never will be so long as I'm the GL. We encourage participation, but don't punish those that choose not to. We encourage TW omis, but require none. We ask that people play IF they sign up - joining and doing nothing is the only way you can get in trouble in my guild with regard to TW. But no one is ever told that they have to sign up, or told that they're not allowed to.
This is about providing a welcoming and comfortable guild environment to our players and has nothing to do with chasing a W/L record. If that were the case I think our current win% would be higher than 47%. It's also been much worse than that in the past and we were still fine with it. Obviously we prefer to win but not at the cost of micro-managing and punishing people and making the atmosphere in the guild feel like boot camp. And for what? So we can say everyone joined? Is there an achievement for that? Extra rewards for having 50/50? That's the wrong goal, and the wrong priority - at least for us. To each their own - it's not our style.
Which is fine, you should be able to run your guild however you want. All i am saying is they need to make similar GP guilds face similar GP guilds. Doesn't seem to be in the algorithm currently.
Because that would create a whole host of problems which would arguably make the system worse. If guilds could only face others in within a certain GP range the inevitable conclusion would be guilds forcing members to sign up, just in case the opposition gets all 50 of theirs. That has no benefits for anyone, and would push a lot of players out of the game. Players need to be able to pick and choose what game modes they want to engage with, and guilds should have that choice too as to what they focus on.
So you are saying that is ok that guilds with 550mil minimum fights with guilds 400mil. They do not sandbagg couse officers in those guilds didnt push for it. Those guild dont rotate their players in tw, there is always same crew 40 players who do tw, 10 players who has life never play tw, this guilds are not sure about winning couse 30 gl leja and 30 leviathans dont make difference.
Yes?
Absolutely that’s ok. If guild members choose not to play TW that’s entirely on them and the rest of the guild shouldn’t be punished because some of their Guildford have other priorities. It’s just a game after all.
Because that would create a whole host of problems which would arguably make the system worse. If guilds could only face others in within a certain GP range the inevitable conclusion would be guilds forcing members to sign up, just in case the opposition gets all 50 of theirs. That has no benefits for anyone, and would push a lot of players out of the game. Players need to be able to pick and choose what game modes they want to engage with, and guilds should have that choice too as to what they focus on.
The next set of the filter after guild GP would be # joined. Should be closeish. Players can pick if they want to play or not, as said above by a guild leader they will never enforce manadatory sign up. And would probably be that way across a lot of guilds.
The point is they are not rewarded with easier match ups due to people choosing to do other things besides TW.
That’s a perfectly reasonable suggestion, and if they could implement it that would be great. The only downside of considering average GP would be that it’ll push players back towards the issues there were of players withholding upgrades to keep rosters leaner. That then has negative impacts on other parts of the game.
Yes, game. As a player you should feel that is not right. But if you are this kind of player i wouldnt play with you in any game.
lol...just so i'm clear on your position on this.
Someone has a hard deadline at work.
You: You peasant...you have to work for money???? F you play TW!
Someone has a date night.
You: Who cares? Relationships are overrated. Play TW!
My kid is sick.
You: That's what bandaids are for. Slap one on and Play TW!
I got into a car accident.
You: Are you hurt or are you injured? Which one? Who cares...play TW!!!
Its a game dude. Other people dont have to enjoy the game less just so you enjoy the game more
Matchmaking should account for total gp and number signed up. My guild has had 47-48 sign up the last two wars and faced guilds with top 10 total gp who joined 41-42, and we got smoked. I'd rather face a guild of similar size that joined 46-49
The point is guilds having TW optional is very common. There's always a few players per guild that hate or dislikes TW. Maybe tickets alts that don't need sign up. We got some of our own that don't sign up. We all the play the game differently from causal to competitive but in the end, it's just a video game.
My guild sometimes gets easy wars. Sometimes we're the ones being trenched or sandbagged on. Someone from my guild mentioned skill rating for TW for guilds. Idk how well that would work. I person think more reward brackets. Give the top guilds something to fight over so their not actively trying to avoid the big MAW and CAW guilds
Maybe in 2024 something will get updated with TW. Maybe not.
The algorithm is pretty simple, if you lose two, you should be able to win the next two, then you'll probably lose two, and so on.
You might think guilds are sandbagging, but that could be because you're winning a couple, so you get matched against someone tougher. (Which for them is an "easier" match up)
Complaining about TW is useless and probably more useless than any other system in place. Just take the loss, get your rewards, and move on. (Some guilds area just joining, putting a defense, and getting their 50 points each and moving on.)
This is completely false. This "win 2, lose 2" algorithm is merely anecdotal. We've recently been matched up against a guild that would win pretty much all their wars. They probably won like 95 out of their last 100 TWs. For them it would be more like "win 25, lose 1". I was of course curious to see how they win so many, but I can't say I was surprised. They were like 540M, but would consistently go into wars with like 400M. And they would face ~400M guilds most of the time and would absolutely DEMOLISH them. This is not fun for any of their opponents, because in some extreme cases the lowest GP player of said 540M guild would be higher than the highest player in the 400M guild. It doesn't matter that they have 12 people sit out or so. That's still like 30+ Leias, 38 Jabbas, 38 LVs, 30+ Leviathans etc.. And that's usually much much much more than what 400M guilds have, despite going in with 50/50. And let's not get started on mods, datacrons, relics. It doesn't matter whether that's intentional or unintentional sandbagging, but guilds should not be having win streaks of 25+ for gaming the system. Being a 540M guild and beating up on a 400M guild has nothing to do with skill. Guilds that sandbag will have easy matchups 90% of the time, so this "win 2, lose 2" thing never applies to them. And trust me, I've looked at a lot of guilds and checked their TW history. And sandbagging win streaks are way more common than you think. But then guilds like mine who always go in with 48-50 suffer week in week out, because we face those exact same guilds that go in with 70% of their people.
Maybe in 2024 something will get updated with TW. Maybe not.
The algorithm is pretty simple, if you lose two, you should be able to win the next two, then you'll probably lose two, and so on.
You might think guilds are sandbagging, but that could be because you're winning a couple, so you get matched against someone tougher. (Which for them is an "easier" match up)
Complaining about TW is useless and probably more useless than any other system in place. Just take the loss, get your rewards, and move on. (Some guilds area just joining, putting a defense, and getting their 50 points each and moving on.)
This is completely false. This "win 2, lose 2" algorithm is merely anecdotal. We've recently been matched up against a guild that would win pretty much all their wars. They probably won like 95 out of their last 100 TWs. For them it would be more like "win 25, lose 1". I was of course curious to see how they win so many, but I can't say I was surprised. They were like 540M, but would consistently go into wars with like 400M. And they would face ~400M guilds most of the time and would absolutely DEMOLISH them. This is not fun for any of their opponents, because in some extreme cases the lowest GP player of said 540M guild would be higher than the highest player in the 400M guild. It doesn't matter that they have 12 people sit out or so. That's still like 30+ Leias, 38 Jabbas, 38 LVs, 30+ Leviathans etc.. And that's usually much much much more than what 400M guilds have, despite going in with 50/50. And let's not get started on mods, datacrons, relics. It doesn't matter whether that's intentional or unintentional sandbagging, but guilds should not be having win streaks of 25+ for gaming the system. Being a 540M guild and beating up on a 400M guild has nothing to do with skill. Guilds that sandbag will have easy matchups 90% of the time, so this "win 2, lose 2" thing never applies to them. And trust me, I've looked at a lot of guilds and checked their TW history. And sandbagging win streaks are way more common than you think. But then guilds like mine who always go in with 48-50 suffer week in week out, because we face those exact same guilds that go in with 70% of their people.
Sandbagging has to be intentional, it's in the definition of the term.
Semantics aside, the best solution I've seen so far in this thread to the problem of gravelbagging (as a suggestion for the nomenclature) would be to have more divisions at the top end. Trying to force 100% participation by including average GP as a matchmaking metric is problematic for the rest of the game in encouraging lean rosters, but increasing the rewards to encourage the biggest guilds to sign up more members might alleviate the issue.
Account started June 2020. 100% FTP. 8.2m GP. JMK, JML, SLKR, and SEE. Exe and Levi. Ally code 117-269-921. Swgoh.gg
Many guilds above 500mil gp are sandbaging. They prefer to have like 3 wins than 4 loses, despite that part of their guild is playing less tw, it is still better for them in rewards. It is funny when 2 such guilds are matched . My guild is considering doing the same, we are like 450mil and we would like to avoid guilds 550mil who can easily play in 40 players against guilds like mine. If game allows that, why not.
Not saying that guilds don't try to game it but to say *many* do it with your proof merely anecdotal from a few people you know isnt proof of many. TW is by far the worst game mode by a mile. Its completely unenjoyable. Expecting 50 people to be on call for 24 hours is frankly not fun nor realistic for most people that have lives. My guild is TW optional with the only TW rule of if you join you participate. We hardly ever get full guild join and that, frankly, is normal and ok and we dont apologize for it at all. That isn't sandbagging. And I'd bet that theres more of this than actual gaming of the MM process where guilds are making certain folks sit and not get rewards even if they want to play so that most of the others can. This is a game and asking people to be on or availalbe for that long is just stupid. TW needs to change to make it more individual so people that have families or work or whatever can do what they need to do when they have the time to do it in the day
Is "Mandalorian Horizon" your guild?
Where did you find this guild? They always win.. 550 mil guild which is going against opponents like 400mil and they win with such a margin of points. Like their oponents cant clear one zone. If they dont sandbag on purpose...this is situation that cg should adress. I had same expierience so far with another guild. Wall of gl leia.and they were playing like 75% of their guild. It was like a heavy weight boxer wanted to fight in middle weight. And be proud after winning...
yep, that's my guild. we don't tell anyone to sit or rotate people in or out of TW. i would imagine we would lose players we told to sit and not get any rewards just so a bunch of others can get better rewards? ya...that wouldn't fly. when we recruit we tell recruits from the start that we are not a TW guild. if they love TW we aren't for them and we can help them find a TW focused guild. we have no problem playing "better" guilds if thats who we match up against. but that's not our problem. we play the game as it is currently designed.
the underlying solution to the issue OP posted about should be a better MM algorithm or a complete rethinking of what a guild vs guild game mode should be but your premise that "many" guilds are sandbagging is just not substantiated. maybe its true. maybe it isn't. what i do know is that a game developer asking their players...a vast majority of whom likely have full time jobs and significant others or kids to be on call for 24 hours for a game is absolutely insane.
That is why I do maybe 1 TW a month.
Dumbest game mode that exists here.
Replies
yes...altho apparently we used a bunch of weird characters at inception that there are unfixable holes in our name now
I don’t buy that sandbagging happens because ‘someone in a guild told me so’ or because only 41 or 42 people signed up. If guild officers are ordering it then they’re d-bags and are only hurting their guilds, but I’d expect it’s the vast minority.
Pls tell me your guild isn't "Burns when I PvP"...
Sandbagging is intentional. A guild with low signups because they don't make TW compulsory is just.... a guild with low signups.
AFAIK it is better to have MORE players for rewards...never did the math, but i am under the impression that having 40 players in and only 30 playing is better than having 30 players in even if all are playing.
MY POINT...i am pretty sure MOST guilds can't really control or dont care that much...it should change as you get closer to the top...but life in the middle/bottom guilds is not as planned as some think around here...
This is the point exactly that I’ve been trying to make. A guild not having 100% sign up isn’t sandbagging, if that was the case almost every guild would be “sandbagging”.
I am going to have to guess that people don't care if they sign up because they get favorable matchups out of it, intentional or not. I'd also venture a guess that if the system was different and you were stuck in a bracket and had to play another 530M guild as opposed to a 430M guild, all of a sudden TW participation would become mandatory.
Yes. This is true. Sudennly those guys wouldnt have 21 wins in row but half of it or less.
And droves and droves would quit immediately, or we'd end up with a bunch of Wakanda guilds setting Jawa and Han walls. Personally, I cannot commit the time for weekend TW for about half the year, and so cannot be in a guild that requires TW sign up and participation.
Definitely not making this about you.
Just saying that currently there is no penalty and only benefit. And it's to the detriment of smaller GP guilds that are having 49-50 sign up but are not at the same competitive level.
Would be a pretty simple fix to add the first filter as total guild gp and then followed by participants. Wouldn't have to reinvent the wheel. 35 people from a 550M GP guild with 15 not signing up would absolute smoke a full participant 385M GP guild. They are playing at a totally different level.
Didn't really mean to make it about me, was just adding in my perspective about any guild that would require sign up, or how I would react if CG made it like TB and just everyone had to do it. I am one of the ones with IRL conflicts. Once April rolls around I will be unable to participate properly in 50% of the TW's, and I know this is not isolated as a Me problem.
There are certainly several small tweaks they could make, but I suspect the W/L is about where they want it so they're reluctant, much like GA "MM". Rumors have been that TW is getting a rework for a while now though, so hopefully they just change the whole mode. With any luck, those changes will make it more enjoyable and more fair.
Unfortunately a lot of people seem to forget this
Your guess would be wrong. It never has been mandatory in my guild and never will be so long as I'm the GL. We encourage participation, but don't punish those that choose not to. We encourage TW omis, but require none. We ask that people play IF they sign up - joining and doing nothing is the only way you can get in trouble in my guild with regard to TW. But no one is ever told that they have to sign up, or told that they're not allowed to.
This is about providing a welcoming and comfortable guild environment to our players and has nothing to do with chasing a W/L record. If that were the case I think our current win% would be higher than 47%. It's also been much worse than that in the past and we were still fine with it. Obviously we prefer to win but not at the cost of micro-managing and punishing people and making the atmosphere in the guild feel like boot camp. And for what? So we can say everyone joined? Is there an achievement for that? Extra rewards for having 50/50? That's the wrong goal, and the wrong priority - at least for us. To each their own - it's not our style.
Which is fine, you should be able to run your guild however you want. All i am saying is they need to make similar GP guilds face similar GP guilds. Doesn't seem to be in the algorithm currently.
Because that would create a whole host of problems which would arguably make the system worse. If guilds could only face others in within a certain GP range the inevitable conclusion would be guilds forcing members to sign up, just in case the opposition gets all 50 of theirs. That has no benefits for anyone, and would push a lot of players out of the game. Players need to be able to pick and choose what game modes they want to engage with, and guilds should have that choice too as to what they focus on.
So you are saying that is ok that guilds with 550mil minimum fights with guilds 400mil. They do not sandbagg couse officers in those guilds didnt push for it. Those guild dont rotate their players in tw, there is always same crew 40 players who do tw, 10 players who has life never play tw, this guilds are not sure about winning couse 30 gl leja and 30 leviathans dont make difference.
Yes?
The next set of the filter after guild GP would be # joined. Should be closeish. Players can pick if they want to play or not, as said above by a guild leader they will never enforce manadatory sign up. And would probably be that way across a lot of guilds.
The point is they are not rewarded with easier match ups due to people choosing to do other things besides TW.
And if we're being honest, the rewards aren't so different between a win and a loss that it's really a game breaking thing.
Absolutely that’s ok. If guild members choose not to play TW that’s entirely on them and the rest of the guild shouldn’t be punished because some of their guildies have other priorities. It’s just a game after all.
That’s a perfectly reasonable suggestion, and if they could implement it that would be great. The only downside of considering average GP would be that it’ll push players back towards the issues there were of players withholding upgrades to keep rosters leaner. That then has negative impacts on other parts of the game.
Edit - guildies, not Guildford. D**n autocorrect.
And the rewards, besides reroll material, are very close.
Thing i think would happen is you'd have better matchups and TW would be more fun to play. The person being curbstomped isn't having much fun currently.
Yes, game. As a player you should feel that is not right. But if you are this kind of player i wouldnt play with you in any game.
Good, I wouldn't want to play with you either. No need to force participation in guild PVP modes.
lol...just so i'm clear on your position on this.
Someone has a hard deadline at work.
You: You peasant...you have to work for money???? F you play TW!
Someone has a date night.
You: Who cares? Relationships are overrated. Play TW!
My kid is sick.
You: That's what bandaids are for. Slap one on and Play TW!
I got into a car accident.
You: Are you hurt or are you injured? Which one? Who cares...play TW!!!
Its a game dude. Other people dont have to enjoy the game less just so you enjoy the game more
Matchmaking should account for total gp and number signed up. My guild has had 47-48 sign up the last two wars and faced guilds with top 10 total gp who joined 41-42, and we got smoked. I'd rather face a guild of similar size that joined 46-49
My guild sometimes gets easy wars. Sometimes we're the ones being trenched or sandbagged on. Someone from my guild mentioned skill rating for TW for guilds. Idk how well that would work. I person think more reward brackets. Give the top guilds something to fight over so their not actively trying to avoid the big MAW and CAW guilds
This is completely false. This "win 2, lose 2" algorithm is merely anecdotal. We've recently been matched up against a guild that would win pretty much all their wars. They probably won like 95 out of their last 100 TWs. For them it would be more like "win 25, lose 1". I was of course curious to see how they win so many, but I can't say I was surprised. They were like 540M, but would consistently go into wars with like 400M. And they would face ~400M guilds most of the time and would absolutely DEMOLISH them. This is not fun for any of their opponents, because in some extreme cases the lowest GP player of said 540M guild would be higher than the highest player in the 400M guild. It doesn't matter that they have 12 people sit out or so. That's still like 30+ Leias, 38 Jabbas, 38 LVs, 30+ Leviathans etc.. And that's usually much much much more than what 400M guilds have, despite going in with 50/50. And let's not get started on mods, datacrons, relics. It doesn't matter whether that's intentional or unintentional sandbagging, but guilds should not be having win streaks of 25+ for gaming the system. Being a 540M guild and beating up on a 400M guild has nothing to do with skill. Guilds that sandbag will have easy matchups 90% of the time, so this "win 2, lose 2" thing never applies to them. And trust me, I've looked at a lot of guilds and checked their TW history. And sandbagging win streaks are way more common than you think. But then guilds like mine who always go in with 48-50 suffer week in week out, because we face those exact same guilds that go in with 70% of their people.
Sandbagging has to be intentional, it's in the definition of the term.
Semantics aside, the best solution I've seen so far in this thread to the problem of gravelbagging (as a suggestion for the nomenclature) would be to have more divisions at the top end. Trying to force 100% participation by including average GP as a matchmaking metric is problematic for the rest of the game in encouraging lean rosters, but increasing the rewards to encourage the biggest guilds to sign up more members might alleviate the issue.
That is why I do maybe 1 TW a month.
Dumbest game mode that exists here.