Your guess would be wrong. It never has been mandatory in my guild and never will be so long as I'm the GL. We encourage participation, but don't punish those that choose not to. We encourage TW omis, but require none. We ask that people play IF they sign up - joining and doing nothing is the only way you can get in trouble in my guild with regard to TW. But no one is ever told that they have to sign up, or told that they're not allowed to.
This is about providing a welcoming and comfortable guild environment to our players and has nothing to do with chasing a W/L record. If that were the case I think our current win% would be higher than 47%. It's also been much worse than that in the past and we were still fine with it. Obviously we prefer to win but not at the cost of micro-managing and punishing people and making the atmosphere in the guild feel like boot camp. And for what? So we can say everyone joined? Is there an achievement for that? Extra rewards for having 50/50? That's the wrong goal, and the wrong priority - at least for us. To each their own - it's not our style.
Which is fine, you should be able to run your guild however you want. All i am saying is they need to make similar GP guilds face similar GP guilds. Doesn't seem to be in the algorithm currently.
Because that would create a whole host of problems which would arguably make the system worse. If guilds could only face others in within a certain GP range the inevitable conclusion would be guilds forcing members to sign up, just in case the opposition gets all 50 of theirs. That has no benefits for anyone, and would push a lot of players out of the game. Players need to be able to pick and choose what game modes they want to engage with, and guilds should have that choice too as to what they focus on.
So you are saying that is ok that guilds with 550mil minimum fights with guilds 400mil. They do not sandbagg couse officers in those guilds didnt push for it. Those guild dont rotate their players in tw, there is always same crew 40 players who do tw, 10 players who has life never play tw, this guilds are not sure about winning couse 30 gl leja and 30 leviathans dont make difference.
Yes?
Absolutely that’s ok. If guild members choose not to play TW that’s entirely on them and the rest of the guild shouldn’t be punished because some of their Guildford have other priorities. It’s just a game after all.
Because that would create a whole host of problems which would arguably make the system worse. If guilds could only face others in within a certain GP range the inevitable conclusion would be guilds forcing members to sign up, just in case the opposition gets all 50 of theirs. That has no benefits for anyone, and would push a lot of players out of the game. Players need to be able to pick and choose what game modes they want to engage with, and guilds should have that choice too as to what they focus on.
The next set of the filter after guild GP would be # joined. Should be closeish. Players can pick if they want to play or not, as said above by a guild leader they will never enforce manadatory sign up. And would probably be that way across a lot of guilds.
The point is they are not rewarded with easier match ups due to people choosing to do other things besides TW.
That’s a perfectly reasonable suggestion, and if they could implement it that would be great. The only downside of considering average GP would be that it’ll push players back towards the issues there were of players withholding upgrades to keep rosters leaner. That then has negative impacts on other parts of the game.
Yes, game. As a player you should feel that is not right. But if you are this kind of player i wouldnt play with you in any game.
lol...just so i'm clear on your position on this.
Someone has a hard deadline at work.
You: You peasant...you have to work for money???? F you play TW!
Someone has a date night.
You: Who cares? Relationships are overrated. Play TW!
My kid is sick.
You: That's what bandaids are for. Slap one on and Play TW!
I got into a car accident.
You: Are you hurt or are you injured? Which one? Who cares...play TW!!!
Its a game dude. Other people dont have to enjoy the game less just so you enjoy the game more
Matchmaking should account for total gp and number signed up.
Maybe in 2024 something will get updated with TW. Maybe not.
The algorithm is pretty simple, if you lose two, you should be able to win the next two, then you'll probably lose two, and so on.
You might think guilds are sandbagging, but that could be because you're winning a couple, so you get matched against someone tougher. (Which for them is an "easier" match up)
Complaining about TW is useless and probably more useless than any other system in place. Just take the loss, get your rewards, and move on. (Some guilds area just joining, putting a defense, and getting their 50 points each and moving on.)
This is completely false. This "win 2, lose 2" algorithm is merely anecdotal. We've recently been matched up against a guild that would win pretty much all their wars. They probably won like 95 out of their last 100 TWs. For them it would be more like "win 25, lose 1"
Our guild's win rate is jsut over 50%, so the win 2, lose 2 appears to apply to our guild. But our next opponent's record is 122W-21L. That "rule" does not apply to them. The odds are against us. We'll accept the reality of the situation and try to make sure everyone participating gets rewards. Can't do much else. Our next opponent may be a better match.
If we can lookup a guild's complete TW record, why can't they do that themselves?
Have guilds that have had a certain number of TW matches go against another guild with the same number of matches and a similar winning percentage. That would seem to be a better system than what is going on right now.
My guild had another sandbagging 550 mil guild as oponent. Second time in last 4 matches.
Them not having 100% sign-up does not mean that they were sandbagging (which by definition is deliberate). It may just mean that some of their players have RL commitments around the holidays.
Account started June 2020. 100% FTP. 8.2m GP. JMK, JML, SLKR, and SEE. Exe and Levi. Ally code 117-269-921. Swgoh.gg
Datacrons and the increase to zone sizes broke TW. Prior it was much more competitive. Turned into a throw away game mode that is meaningless. You get many not signing up because they simply don’t care, don’t have the time and rewards are terrible.
Datacrons and the increase to zone sizes broke TW. Prior it was much more competitive. Turned into a throw away game mode that is meaningless. You get many not signing up because they simply don’t care, don’t have the time and rewards are terrible.
The rewards are terrible compared to what? I feel like the rewards are pretty good - even if you go in knowing you're going to lose, who doesn't want more zetas, guild currency, and GET1/GET2? Probably best rewards in the game for doing next to nothing. At worst it's a chance to practice some counters and get rewarded for it.
F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
Just wondering but when does sandbagging become an issue?
Our guild about ~340 million GP and WL ratio is about 5 wins per 1 loss. Usually about 45-48 people join. I've never heard of what "TW sandbagging" is outside this forum.
Our guild is probably around 55% wins at 450 mil GP. It is encouraged to only join if you can actually attack, so most of the time around 5 people sit a TW out.
The match ups always seem to be 'fair', insofar as the algorithms seems to hold us around a 50% win rate, so it seems fine for us even if some players 'sandbag' by not joining.
What could be implemented to make it fairer in huge GP gap matches is a handicap for the bigger guild. Maybe their defense has more slots to fill, while at same time maxxing out the points at the defense max of the weaker guild or something, so the members have less teams for offense.
“TW is not mandatory in my guild but we are not sandbagging” hahah.. yes, you with a guild where only 40 players join TWs, are sandbagging. Call it what you want.
Usually officers ask everyone to join, who dont like free zeta mats (and robo brain if GS high enough)?
Maybe this issue is caused by the tiered rewards capping at 380M when guilds can be 600M.
This is causing different approaches to TW sign ups, guilds scraping 300M often have compulsory sign up to get a droid brain and there is a lot of issues when players miss. If it happens often other players leave usually the larger rosters who realise they can get into a larger guild and get there rewards more easily. Resulting in high prevalence of 49/50 sign ups from strict consequences as well as recruitment being driven by activity. Once my guilds reach 350M they start to relax a little and over the 380M there is even less concern between top two tiers of 4 or 5 droid brains for a win and loss is the same. Recruitment is more driven by raid than TW as our core gets the droid brains often enough already. But still I personally have not been in a guild with less than 45 sign up even without requirements.
If the whole TW approach is casual and win rate is average I would say it’s a super relaxed guild for those who do not have the time. As soon as I see a 20+ win streak with abundance of meta TW toon I heavily suspect the reason for laid back approach to sign up is because it means everyone who signs up is active and for the advantage in matchmaking for easy droid brains.
But to the smaller guild does it matter if it’s coincidental or intentional? It is a broken aspect to match making guilds that ‘can’ be exploited.
The fix is easy the reward system should be update up to 600M. I am sure this would drive some to care about sign ups again. I tend to find a shortage of datacron re-roll mats even in top tier wins so could always give more of those to higher level guilds.
“TW is not mandatory in my guild but we are not sandbagging” hahah.. yes, you with a guild where only 40 players join TWs, are sandbagging. Call it what you want.
Usually officers ask everyone to join, who dont like free zeta mats (and robo brain if GS high enough)?
I like free stuff, but many in my guild like actually trying to win at TW. So if I don't have the time or desire to help out on offense I will sit out TW so I am not a drag on those who want to "compete."
Our next opponent has a 129-6 TW record. There is no way in the world we should have been matched with them. I guess the matchmaking algorithm does not apply to them.
Our next opponent has a 129-6 TW record. There is no way in the world we should have been matched with them. I guess the matchmaking algorithm does not apply to them.
is overall win record supposed to be part of the matchmaking?
Our next opponent has a 129-6 TW record. There is no way in the world we should have been matched with them. I guess the matchmaking algorithm does not apply to them.
is overall win record supposed to be part of the matchmaking?
why would it be?
Supposedly, recent win record is supposed to be part of matchmaking, but that is hard to determine from what we've seen.
I think it might be good for overall win record to be part. This guild we are facing right now has their TW game down pat. It would be good for those elite guilds to go against each other. To have a challenge instead of rolling over every guild they face.
I don't know what the game's actual goal in matchmaking is, but I doubt that this is how it is supposed to work.
Similarly our last match was against a guild that is now 45-100. I don't think we should have been matched up against them either.
Our guild is 75-71 right now, so overall it might seem that matchmaking is producing the intended result for our guild, but it doesn't appear to be doing so for the guild we are facing right now and the previous one.
It seems to have been a couple years since we last heard any word on TW matchmaking, maybe it is time for CG to say something again.
Our next opponent has a 129-6 TW record. There is no way in the world we should have been matched with them. I guess the matchmaking algorithm does not apply to them.
is overall win record supposed to be part of the matchmaking?
why would it be?
Supposedly, recent win record is supposed to be part of matchmaking, but that is hard to determine from what we've seen.
I think it might be good for overall win record to be part. This guild we are facing right now has their TW game down pat. It would be good for those elite guilds to go against each other. To have a challenge instead of rolling over every guild they face.
I don't know what the game's actual goal in matchmaking is, but I doubt that this is how it is supposed to work.
Similarly our last match was against a guild that is now 45-100. I don't think we should have been matched up against them either.
Our guild is 75-71 right now, so overall it might seem that matchmaking is producing the intended result for our guild, but it doesn't appear to be doing so for the guild we are facing right now and the previous one.
It seems to have been a couple years since we last heard any word on TW matchmaking, maybe it is time for CG to say something again.
I don't think it is the win record, I think it is your loss record, after so many losses they try to throw you a bone.
I don't think it is the win record, I think it is your loss record, after so many losses they try to throw you a bone.
From what I remember from the original post when they made the change from purely active GP, I think they were only looking at the past 2 TWs and so yes, after two losses they try to throw you a bone. I think they should look at more than just the past two TWs. The data is readily available. Elite guilds should go up against other elite guilds.
Utterly dominating another guild in TW is good for a laugh, but nothing beats the TW experience of a winning a close match in the final hour. That experience should be the goal of matchmaking.
Yes, my guild decided to sandbag tw. After last month going against 550mil guilds which are sandbaging, we decided to do the same. Just to have higher chance to get an oponent that gives us a chance to win or interesting game.
I don't think it is the win record, I think it is your loss record, after so many losses they try to throw you a bone.
From what I remember from the original post when they made the change from purely active GP, I think they were only looking at the past 2 TWs and so yes, after two losses they try to throw you a bone. I think they should look at more than just the past two TWs. The data is readily available. Elite guilds should go up against other elite guilds.
Utterly dominating another guild in TW is good for a laugh, but nothing beats the TW experience of a winning a close match in the final hour. That experience should be the goal of matchmaking.
Really it should go to a SR similar to GA. GP in TW is as dumb of a matching making criteria as it was in GA.
That and they need way better tools for TW.
I find it simpler to sit out and let others that care about it so it.
Replies
It should also account for number of sick kids
Our guild's win rate is jsut over 50%, so the win 2, lose 2 appears to apply to our guild. But our next opponent's record is 122W-21L. That "rule" does not apply to them. The odds are against us. We'll accept the reality of the situation and try to make sure everyone participating gets rewards. Can't do much else. Our next opponent may be a better match.
Have guilds that have had a certain number of TW matches go against another guild with the same number of matches and a similar winning percentage. That would seem to be a better system than what is going on right now.
Them not having 100% sign-up does not mean that they were sandbagging (which by definition is deliberate). It may just mean that some of their players have RL commitments around the holidays.
The rewards are terrible compared to what? I feel like the rewards are pretty good - even if you go in knowing you're going to lose, who doesn't want more zetas, guild currency, and GET1/GET2? Probably best rewards in the game for doing next to nothing. At worst it's a chance to practice some counters and get rewarded for it.
Our guild about ~340 million GP and WL ratio is about 5 wins per 1 loss. Usually about 45-48 people join. I've never heard of what "TW sandbagging" is outside this forum.
Is it a higher GP thing?
The match ups always seem to be 'fair', insofar as the algorithms seems to hold us around a 50% win rate, so it seems fine for us even if some players 'sandbag' by not joining.
What could be implemented to make it fairer in huge GP gap matches is a handicap for the bigger guild. Maybe their defense has more slots to fill, while at same time maxxing out the points at the defense max of the weaker guild or something, so the members have less teams for offense.
You must be in a small GP guild as I need all the droid brains possible.
Usually officers ask everyone to join, who dont like free zeta mats (and robo brain if GS high enough)?
This is causing different approaches to TW sign ups, guilds scraping 300M often have compulsory sign up to get a droid brain and there is a lot of issues when players miss. If it happens often other players leave usually the larger rosters who realise they can get into a larger guild and get there rewards more easily. Resulting in high prevalence of 49/50 sign ups from strict consequences as well as recruitment being driven by activity. Once my guilds reach 350M they start to relax a little and over the 380M there is even less concern between top two tiers of 4 or 5 droid brains for a win and loss is the same. Recruitment is more driven by raid than TW as our core gets the droid brains often enough already. But still I personally have not been in a guild with less than 45 sign up even without requirements.
If the whole TW approach is casual and win rate is average I would say it’s a super relaxed guild for those who do not have the time. As soon as I see a 20+ win streak with abundance of meta TW toon I heavily suspect the reason for laid back approach to sign up is because it means everyone who signs up is active and for the advantage in matchmaking for easy droid brains.
But to the smaller guild does it matter if it’s coincidental or intentional? It is a broken aspect to match making guilds that ‘can’ be exploited.
The fix is easy the reward system should be update up to 600M. I am sure this would drive some to care about sign ups again. I tend to find a shortage of datacron re-roll mats even in top tier wins so could always give more of those to higher level guilds.
I'm not in a small GP guild and have way more droid brains than I can use for quite some time.
I like free stuff, but many in my guild like actually trying to win at TW. So if I don't have the time or desire to help out on offense I will sit out TW so I am not a drag on those who want to "compete."
is overall win record supposed to be part of the matchmaking?
why would it be?
Supposedly, recent win record is supposed to be part of matchmaking, but that is hard to determine from what we've seen.
I think it might be good for overall win record to be part. This guild we are facing right now has their TW game down pat. It would be good for those elite guilds to go against each other. To have a challenge instead of rolling over every guild they face.
Here are the scores from their last 8 matches
17878-12969
16794-12169
19806-13046
21267-14485
24049-9544
21850-14242
19006-10489
20526-18048
Only the 8th one was close.
I don't know what the game's actual goal in matchmaking is, but I doubt that this is how it is supposed to work.
Similarly our last match was against a guild that is now 45-100. I don't think we should have been matched up against them either.
Our guild is 75-71 right now, so overall it might seem that matchmaking is producing the intended result for our guild, but it doesn't appear to be doing so for the guild we are facing right now and the previous one.
It seems to have been a couple years since we last heard any word on TW matchmaking, maybe it is time for CG to say something again.
I don't think it is the win record, I think it is your loss record, after so many losses they try to throw you a bone.
From what I remember from the original post when they made the change from purely active GP, I think they were only looking at the past 2 TWs and so yes, after two losses they try to throw you a bone. I think they should look at more than just the past two TWs. The data is readily available. Elite guilds should go up against other elite guilds.
Utterly dominating another guild in TW is good for a laugh, but nothing beats the TW experience of a winning a close match in the final hour. That experience should be the goal of matchmaking.
Really it should go to a SR similar to GA. GP in TW is as dumb of a matching making criteria as it was in GA.
That and they need way better tools for TW.
I find it simpler to sit out and let others that care about it so it.