The only way to involve GP in the matchmaking and not directly harm players with more GP is to split the entire player base into GP divisions (like before), use Elo-like rating to match players inside divisions, and make sure that rewards in lower divisions are lesser. But:
1. It won't solve mismatch problems. Anyone who remember old system must also remember huge amount of complains about "bad" matchmaking, in both "pure GP" and "top X" systems. "He had more GLs", "He had more relics", etc, etc, etc.
2. It will harm good players who could climb higher.
3. It will make the entire system much more complex without really good reason.
Although maybe the current "mismatches" problem was less intense if Elo system was implemented for matchmaking instead of pure win rate for entire player base.
And, of course, there is the nice separate way to make REALLY competitive PvP tournament - a yearly (?) PvP event were players can draw any existing toons up to certain amount of GP (the same for all involved) and then fight with roster they drawn.
The issue with floors or basement leagues is that it would suppress the upward motion of newer accounts, unless CG were to increase the total crystals moving into the game through GAC. This is because for every one player who gets stuck in a league by floor, or basement league, that means one more player can’t then move up to take their place.
What we have right now is, arguably, the most benefit system for newer players, with no theoretical limit on how high they can climb. Obviously that’s limited overall by the fact that other players are also improving their rosters at similar rates, but that’s just the reality of a game that’s more than half a decade in age.
I never want to go back to GP based either.
However, instead of a basement league in each division, we could have a Limbo league. If your GP is above a certain threshold, say 4 million or whatever, you cant drop below Kyber 5. Instead, you drop into Kyber Limbo. The only way into Kyber LImbo is to have a high GP and fall out of kyber 5.
This prevents the lower leagues from being infected with toxic 11 million+ GP accounts that play once every week. And Aurodium promotes into Kyber 5 the same as usual, and normal kyber 5 under performers drop into aurodium.
If you want to get OUT of Kyber limbo, you must also build your skill level high enough in battles therein to enter something like Kyber 3... demonstrating you are engaging. And you only ever progress out of limbo after the end of a grand arena when they do the squish and adjustments. and you get put into whichever Kyber division is appropriate.
Rewards in Kyber limbo should be lower, so that its not a great place to be.
Maybe that just pushed the problem to Kyber 3.. but at least there are better rosters there...
I dunno. there is certainly no perfect solution, but I do get that an 11 million GP roster isn't serving much purpose when paired with 2.5 million GP accounts, ever.
First of all I would like to say that I am not advocating for the old system, so do not take my words as an assumption that I would like to have it back
... but, even when people played and used the old system I have never encountered such huge mismatches than I and others have now. The discrepancy maybe was there but not as much as it is now. Millions of GP difference just didn't exist. While I understand why many disliked the old system (and why CG got rid of it) I am wondering how people can think this is better, when in the end the mismatches are now even a lot bigger because the GP differences are a lot higher than in the old system. (And yes, I do know that GP is not everything that makes a good roster, but with several Million difference it is quite certain that the bigger roster has an (huge) advantage.
Please let me make clear that where I stand now in the game, I accept it as it is but I do not think that it is good.
There is way too much that takes away the fun and leaves newer/smaller players thrown to the wolves (and not so seldom even bigger players).
I do believe CG should change something, to make the experience better for everyone, especially because crystals are bound to GAC. There were lots of great ideas floating around the forums CG could take into consideration(or come up with their own).
Under the old MM system based off of gp, both people got to play the game, if they desired. One roster might be horribly outmatched due to bloat or poor choices, but they still got to attack meaningfully and fight battles that were within their scope of game play. That said, a MM system where folks win 100+ in a row has big flaws.
New SR system gives competitive matches for most of kyber but creates 9m vs 5m gp matches where one player does not get to play the video game.
The issue with floors or basement leagues is that it would suppress the upward motion of newer accounts, unless CG were to increase the total crystals moving into the game through GAC. This is because for every one player who gets stuck in a league by floor, or basement league, that means one more player can’t then move up to take their place.
What we have right now is, arguably, the most benefit system for newer players, with no theoretical limit on how high they can climb. Obviously that’s limited overall by the fact that other players are also improving their rosters at similar rates, but that’s just the reality of a game that’s more than half a decade in age.
I never want to go back to GP based either.
However, instead of a basement league in each division, we could have a Limbo league. If your GP is above a certain threshold, say 4 million or whatever, you cant drop below Kyber 5. Instead, you drop into Kyber Limbo. The only way into Kyber LImbo is to have a high GP and fall out of kyber 5.
This prevents the lower leagues from being infected with toxic 11 million+ GP accounts that play once every week. And Aurodium promotes into Kyber 5 the same as usual, and normal kyber 5 under performers drop into aurodium.
If you want to get OUT of Kyber limbo, you must also build your skill level high enough in battles therein to enter something like Kyber 3... demonstrating you are engaging. And you only ever progress out of limbo after the end of a grand arena when they do the squish and adjustments. and you get put into whichever Kyber division is appropriate.
Rewards in Kyber limbo should be lower, so that its not a great place to be.
Maybe that just pushed the problem to Kyber 3.. but at least there are better rosters there...
I dunno. there is certainly no perfect solution, but I do get that an 11 million GP roster isn't serving much purpose when paired with 2.5 million GP accounts, ever.
This is almost the exact way I described basement leagues a while ago. Except there would be a basement in each division, with some gp limit for each.
First of all I would like to say that I am not advocating for the old system, so do not take my words as an assumption that I would like to have it back
... but, even when people played and used the old system I have never encountered such huge mismatches than I and others have now. The discrepancy maybe was there but not as much as it is now. Millions of GP difference just didn't exist. While I understand why many disliked the old system (and why CG got rid of it) I am wondering how people can think this is better, when in the end the mismatches are now even a lot bigger because the GP differences are a lot higher than in the old system. (And yes, I do know that GP is not everything that makes a good roster, but with several Million difference it is quite certain that the bigger roster has an (huge) advantage.
Please let me make clear that where I stand now in the game, I accept it as it is but I do not think that it is good.
There is way too much that takes away the fun and leaves newer/smaller players thrown to the wolves (and not so seldom even bigger players).
I do believe CG should change something, to make the experience better for everyone, especially because crystals are bound to GAC. There were lots of great ideas floating around the forums CG could take into consideration(or come up with their own).
Under the old MM system based off of gp, both people got to play the game, if they desired. One roster might be horribly outmatched due to bloat or poor choices, but they still got to attack meaningfully and fight battles that were within their scope of game play. That said, a MM system where folks win 100+ in a row has big flaws.
New SR system gives competitive matches for most of kyber but creates 9m vs 5m gp matches where one player does not get to play the video game.
This is exactly where I stand (now in Chrome division).
Let me put this into perspective; I'm highly talented at strategy, and I generally used to win in GAC (before the current system) because with similar roster size I could out-plan my opponent.
Coming back to the game years, and years later - I'm facing opponents using characters, or who have characters I will never have any hope of beating unless I spend about 8,659€ (I actually did the math btw) OR I'll be grinding for roughly 2-3 years to make any progress and start winning again.
I don't know about all of you, but if I'm joining a competition the goal is to win. I couldn't begin to care less what the rewards are.
And if the matchmaking is so freaking poor, then there is 0 reason for me to participate. 300 crystals or less isn't worth being thoroughly stressed and annoyed for a week at time, multiple times per month.
Not to mention, what about the players who join GAC with JMK, GAS, SEE Galactic Legends on defense, and do nothing because their expectation is they'll win regardless what you do (in Chrome and lower). It's a garbage system that can't get much worse even if they tried to make it worse.
The new system is much better than the old GP match making You’ll eventually fall to where you are winning 50%.
You’re only losing out on rewards by sitting out
First of all I would like to say that I am not advocating for the old system, so do not take my words as an assumption that I would like to have it back
... but, even when people played and used the old system I have never encountered such huge mismatches than I and others have now. The discrepancy maybe was there but not as much as it is now. Millions of GP difference just didn't exist. While I understand why many disliked the old system (and why CG got rid of it) I am wondering how people can think this is better, when in the end the mismatches are now even a lot bigger because the GP differences are a lot higher than in the old system. (And yes, I do know that GP is not everything that makes a good roster, but with several Million difference it is quite certain that the bigger roster has an (huge) advantage.
Please let me make clear that where I stand now in the game, I accept it as it is but I do not think that it is good.
There is way too much that takes away the fun and leaves newer/smaller players thrown to the wolves (and not so seldom even bigger players).
I do believe CG should change something, to make the experience better for everyone, especially because crystals are bound to GAC. There were lots of great ideas floating around the forums CG could take into consideration(or come up with their own).
Under the old MM system based off of gp, both people got to play the game, if they desired. One roster might be horribly outmatched due to bloat or poor choices, but they still got to attack meaningfully and fight battles that were within their scope of game play. That said, a MM system where folks win 100+ in a row has big flaws.
New SR system gives competitive matches for most of kyber but creates 9m vs 5m gp matches where one player does not get to play the video game.
This is exactly where I stand (now in Chrome division).
Let me put this into perspective; I'm highly talented at strategy, and I generally used to win in GAC (before the current system) because with similar roster size I could out-plan my opponent.
Coming back to the game years, and years later - I'm facing opponents using characters, or who have characters I will never have any hope of beating unless I spend about 8,659€ (I actually did the math btw) OR I'll be grinding for roughly 2-3 years to make any progress and start winning again.
I don't know about all of you, but if I'm joining a competition the goal is to win. I couldn't begin to care less what the rewards are.
And if the matchmaking is so freaking poor, then there is 0 reason for me to participate. 300 crystals or less isn't worth being thoroughly stressed and annoyed for a week at time, multiple times per month.
Not to mention, what about the players who join GAC with JMK, GAS, SEE Galactic Legends on defense, and do nothing because their expectation is they'll win regardless what you do (in Chrome and lower). It's a garbage system that can't get much worse even if they tried to make it worse.
I don't know what sized roster you have but there are people in kyber 2 with as few as 2 GLs that play against people that actually try to win. If you're in Chromium meeting 9m accounts, the only way they possibly sank that low is because they don't care about winning and are (the vast majority of the time) doing a single battle for participation rewards. If you're as skilled as you claim, this should not present an issue for you. All you have to do is beat two of their teams, or beat one of their teams more efficiently than they did.
I won't try to make a case that these are ideal matchups - they're most definitely not - but it's a bit strange in the same post to both boast about your skill and bemoan what should be easy matches for you with just one or two solid counters.
The system could certainly be better - and the experience for smaller accounts isn't great. I just have yet to hear anyone come up with a reasonable solution to the problem. For now the solution is to do what tens of thousands of other players have done and grow your roster.
F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
.
The system could certainly be better - and the experience for smaller accounts isn't great. I just have yet to hear anyone come up with a reasonable solution to the problem....
...For now the solution is NOT to do absolutely nothing
I don't know what sized roster you have but there are people in kyber 2 with as few as 2 GLs that play against people that actually try to win. If you're in Chromium meeting 9m accounts, the only way they possibly sank that low is because they don't care about winning and are (the vast majority of the time) doing a single battle for participation rewards. If you're as skilled as you claim, this should not present an issue for you. All you have to do is beat two of their teams, or beat one of their teams more efficiently than they did.
Well, let me help you out here:
I stopped playing way back when there was only one Galactic Legend and my GP at that time was under 1 mil.
Since returning about a year ago, my GP has grown to about 4M.
Yet how am I supposed to compete against GAS? Or Darth Malgus? Bane? Jedi Master Kenobi? Leia? Lord Vader? Full R8+ squads when I have less than 5x R7 units?
What's my incentive to even pretend to care about this event for the next foreseeable future?
I hate to break it to you if you're blissfully unaware, but there are a ton of Carbonite players who have 2 or more GL, and full relic squads like General Skywalker 501st.
And yeah, given the straight fact that I've been outmatched by around 3/4 of my opponents die the past year, and still climbed from Carbonite to Chromium, in less than a full year...
You bet I consider myself quite the strategist.
But it doesn't make this event any less stressful, annoying, and nerve racking to the point I honestly just want to quit again, especially when listening to the people in this forum who are clearly out of touch with anyone lower than Aurorium in Grand Arena.
In fact, I'm almost willing to bet if anyone who's gotten comfortable up there were to make a 100% brand new account, and spent 0 cash, after about 3-4 months tops, they'd give up the account.
The system could certainly be better - and the experience for smaller accounts isn't great. I just have yet to hear anyone come up with a reasonable solution to the problem. For now the solution is to do what tens of thousands of other players have done and grow your roster.
You know that I often agree with you but here I respectfully have to disagree.
Whenever this topic came up, which it regularly does, there have been some good ideas in those threads. But, even if none of the players would have come up with any idea, this shouldn't matter.
The fact alone, that this topic never dies down and often gets mentioned again should be reason enough for CG to realise that it is definitely not "ideal" and it is not the players' job to come up with solutions. That's what the Devs are for, it is their job.
The fact alone, that this topic never dies down and often gets mentioned again should be reason enough for CG to realise that it is definitely not "ideal" and it is not the players' job to come up with solutions. That's what the Devs are for, it is their job.
There will always be people complaining about any system where they perceive they’re at a disadvantage no matter how good of a system CG creates. Matchmaking is never perfect, and there isn’t a game out there that has it down perfect
.
The system could certainly be better - and the experience for smaller accounts isn't great. I just have yet to hear anyone come up with a reasonable solution to the problem....
...For now the solution is NOT to do absolutely nothing
Where did I say to do nothing? I said grow your roster. It sounds like you've been doing that, so that's a plus.
In fact, I'm almost willing to bet if anyone who's gotten comfortable up there were to make a 100% brand new account, and spent 0 cash, after about 3-4 months tops, they'd give up the account.
Plenty of people run multiple accounts, and probably most people don't spend on their alt accounts. I'm not saying it's not a struggle in GAC for a smaller account. I am saying that your solution introduces worse problems than you're trying to solve - and we know it does because we've seen it before.
The system could certainly be better - and the experience for smaller accounts isn't great. I just have yet to hear anyone come up with a reasonable solution to the problem. For now the solution is to do what tens of thousands of other players have done and grow your roster.
You know that I often agree with you but here I respectfully have to disagree.
Whenever this topic came up, which it regularly does, there have been some good ideas in those threads. But, even if none of the players would have come up with any idea, this shouldn't matter.
The fact alone, that this topic never dies down and often gets mentioned again should be reason enough for CG to realise that it is definitely not "ideal" and it is not the players' job to come up with solutions. That's what the Devs are for, it is their job.
Sure - I do actually agree that it's a problem. I'm not making the case that the situation isn't frustrating, or that things couldn't be improved. I'm saying this is a hard problem to solve and I'm sure any kind of input the devs could get into how to solve the problem would be more useful than the same old suggestion to go back to the (even more) broken system of GP based match making.
That being said, it's ultimately unlikely that the devs will do ANYTHING about it, considering all indications seem to be that they're happy with the current system. Which is honestly unfortunate, but that's where we are. The solution remains, "grow your roster" as the higher your climb in GAC, the less of this nonsense you see.
F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
I don't see how that is a valid argument to be honest. Truly, I don't.
Here's why:
Territory War your opposing guild it's determined by the overall GP of everyone who joined the event. This means it is entirely GP based Matchmaking, and frankly I don't see much complaint about it. Clearly, the way things are now as opposed to 3-5 years ago it works quite well, even in large groups.
I still don't see any argument here as to why an initial bracket can not be determined by GP for all 8 contestants strictly for determining brackets.
Other than "it was bad years ago", what legitimate argument is there that grouping 8 players with similar roster size would be negative?
Here's another idea. Make Carbonite & Bronzium 100% GP based (which has already been suggested earlier), and then for the higher levels return to sbmm? By then you'll likely have a large enough Roster to properly compete or at the very least, you should in theory have the experience to compensate for it if you are struggling in growth.
I don't see how that is a valid argument to be honest. Truly, I don't.
Here's why:
Territory War your opposing guild it's determined by the overall GP of everyone who joined the event. This means it is entirely GP based Matchmaking, and frankly I don't see much complaint about it. Clearly, the way things are now as opposed to 3-5 years ago it works quite well, even in large groups.
I still don't see any argument here as to why an initial bracket can not be determined by GP for all 8 contestants strictly for determining brackets.
Other than "it was bad years ago", what legitimate argument is there that grouping 8 players with similar roster size would be negative?
Here's another idea. Make Carbonite & Bronzium 100% GP based (which has already been suggested earlier), and then for the higher levels return to sbmm? By then you'll likely have a large enough Roster to properly compete or at the very least, you should in theory have the experience to compensate for it if you are struggling in growth.
Well, TW isn't 100% GP matchmaking, we just don't know what the actual matchmaking is so hard to say much about it, but there are definitely a whole lot of complains. You just must not be on the forums much around lock time.
And the problem with GP matchmaking in GA is it promotes lean rosters, which is bad for the game overall. This "skill" based MM we have now is actually really good in Aurodium and Kyber. I do think they should try to do something for the lower leagues, but not sure they're willing to split out the MM like that.
Your opinion might carry more weight if you stopped bragging about this, especially when a quick review of your modding and GAC history suggest otherwise.
I don't see how that is a valid argument to be honest. Truly, I don't.
Here's why:
Territory War your opposing guild it's determined by the overall GP of everyone who joined the event. This means it is entirely GP based Matchmaking, and frankly I don't see much complaint about it. Clearly, the way things are now as opposed to 3-5 years ago it works quite well, even in large groups.
I still don't see any argument here as to why an initial bracket can not be determined by GP for all 8 contestants strictly for determining brackets.
Other than "it was bad years ago", what legitimate argument is there that grouping 8 players with similar roster size would be negative?
Here's another idea. Make Carbonite & Bronzium 100% GP based (which has already been suggested earlier), and then for the higher levels return to sbmm? By then you'll likely have a large enough Roster to properly compete or at the very least, you should in theory have the experience to compensate for it if you are struggling in growth.
There are plenty of complaints about TW matchmaking - those threads pop up all the time - GP based match making IS problematic in TW for numerous reasons (see any of the many, many posts about sandbagging in TW), but that's a whole different ball of wax.
I get that you don't see the problem. I've done my best to explain it to you. I'm sorry that I couldn't make it more clear.
For what it's worth, I DO think CG should do something about the disparity in lower leagues.
F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
The fact alone, that this topic never dies down and often gets mentioned again should be reason enough for CG to realise that it is definitely not "ideal" and it is not the players' job to come up with solutions. That's what the Devs are for, it is their job.
There will always be people complaining about any system where they perceive they’re at a disadvantage no matter how good of a system CG creates. Matchmaking is never perfect, and there isn’t a game out there that has it down perfect
I agree, it will never be possible that everyone is happy or to have the "perfect" MM.
But I also think, that in this case it is not just some "fringe" people whom are never happy amd like to complain.
.
The system could certainly be better - and the experience for smaller accounts isn't great. I just have yet to hear anyone come up with a reasonable solution to the problem....
...For now the solution is NOT to do absolutely nothing
Where did I say to do nothing? I said grow your roster. It sounds like you've been doing that, so that's a plus.
In fact, I'm almost willing to bet if anyone who's gotten comfortable up there were to make a 100% brand new account, and spent 0 cash, after about 3-4 months tops, they'd give up the account.
Plenty of people run multiple accounts, and probably most people don't spend on their alt accounts. I'm not saying it's not a struggle in GAC for a smaller account. I am saying that your solution introduces worse problems than you're trying to solve - and we know it does because we've seen it before.
The system could certainly be better - and the experience for smaller accounts isn't great. I just have yet to hear anyone come up with a reasonable solution to the problem. For now the solution is to do what tens of thousands of other players have done and grow your roster.
You know that I often agree with you but here I respectfully have to disagree.
Whenever this topic came up, which it regularly does, there have been some good ideas in those threads. But, even if none of the players would have come up with any idea, this shouldn't matter.
The fact alone, that this topic never dies down and often gets mentioned again should be reason enough for CG to realise that it is definitely not "ideal" and it is not the players' job to come up with solutions. That's what the Devs are for, it is their job.
Sure - I do actually agree that it's a problem. I'm not making the case that the situation isn't frustrating, or that things couldn't be improved. I'm saying this is a hard problem to solve and I'm sure any kind of input the devs could get into how to solve the problem would be more useful than the same old suggestion to go back to the (even more) broken system of GP based match making.
That being said, it's ultimately unlikely that the devs will do ANYTHING about it, considering all indications seem to be that they're happy with the current system. Which is honestly unfortunate, but that's where we are. The solution remains, "grow your roster" as the higher your climb in GAC, the less of this nonsense you see.
I agree. 🙂
I also don't think they will do something about it.
I also don't think they will do something about it.
Perhaps not, but as long as people keep bringing up the fact there is a serious issue, especially in lower leagues there's always a chance the game devs will eventually stop being lazy.
I also don't think they will do something about it.
Perhaps not, but as long as people keep bringing up the fact there is a serious issue, especially in lower leagues there's always a chance the game devs will eventually stop being lazy.
The issue exists only in the lower leagues, not especially there.
The issue exists only in the lower leagues, not especially there.
Nice try, but that's simply not true. I'm sure everyone who even periodically keeps an eye on Grand Arena has been aware of accounts under 5M GP in Kyber 1 - and not the occasional oddball either.
How is it fair to them to face opponents with double their roster capabilities?
As it has been pointed out before, there are also players in Kyber with as few as 2 GL. And they're expected to have a fair competition against opponents with every GL in the game?
Interesting, so by this very logic it's equally fair to hold a tournament where small children compete against teenagers, or adults even?
The issue exists only in the lower leagues, not especially there.
Nice try, but that's simply not true. I'm sure everyone who even periodically keeps an eye on Grand Arena has been aware of accounts under 5M GP in Kyber 1 - and not the occasional oddball either.
How is it fair to them to face opponents with double their roster capabilities?
As it has been pointed out before, there are also players in Kyber with as few as 2 GL. And they're expected to have a fair competition against opponents with every GL in the game?
Interesting, so by this very logic it's equally fair to hold a tournament where small children compete against teenagers, or adults even?
Wow. Sounds... fair... I guess... (sarcasm)
That is a completely separate issue, and is an actual bug, not a complaint about MM.
Matchmaking is fine as it is but.
How the lost/won SR value is dertermined is not fine.
Ranking and rewards system are not fine as they are.
IMO, they "over simplified" GAC / PvP system where a single number is used for everyting, "Skill Rating", when it should be only used for matchmaking. SR lost/won should'nt be a fixed value but calculated on how efficient you were.
I wouldn't use skill rating as a ranking system or rewards system.
Squish happen since everything use skill rating and they can't figure out (or too lazy) to do a proper championship.
If you have seasonal pvp, ranking should reset but not your skill rating, invested players would move up the ladder when lazy players would stay at the bottom.
What would be great for GAC is a mixed elements of the current GAC with what they introduced at first at the begining, Tournament (when they added Chirrut and Baze as a reward), since they have more tools at their disposal to ban cheaters.
But let be honest, the numbers of "afk players" is not significant for CG to do something.
Matchmaking is fine as it is but.
How the lost/won SR value is dertermined is not fine.
Ranking and rewards system are not fine as they are.
IMO, they "over simplified" GAC / PvP system where a single number is used for everyting, "Skill Rating", when it should be only used for matchmaking. SR lost/won should'nt be a fixed value but calculated on how efficient you were.
Matchmaking is fine as it is but.
How the lost/won SR value is dertermined is not fine.
Ranking and rewards system are not fine as they are.
IMO, they "over simplified" GAC / PvP system where a single number is used for everyting, "Skill Rating", when it should be only used for matchmaking. SR lost/won should'nt be a fixed value but calculated on how efficient you were.
IMO, they "over simplified" GAC / PvP system where a single number is used for everyting, "Skill Rating", when it should be only used for matchmaking. SR lost/won should'nt be a fixed value but calculated on how efficient you were.
I wouldn't use skill rating as a ranking system or rewards system.
Squish happen since everything use skill rating and they can't figure out (or too lazy) to do a proper championship. <--- Facts
If you have seasonal pvp, ranking should reset but not your skill rating, invested players would move up the ladder when lazy players would stay at the bottom. <--- also facts
You have a couple of points here. As my father always liked to say "for every problem, there IS a solution if you want to put in the effort to find it".
I still feel Matchmaking in and of itself is beyond broken from Carbonite to Chromium from what I've seen but this brings about another interesting thought.
Many games do this including FPS games. It would be a fantastic way to filter out "barely participating" players until they're pretty much stuck together eventually.
It'll also make players who legitimately want to compete, habe engaging matches against other players.
That alone, would solve a lot of Matchmaking issues in my opinion. For example, it'll move the leagues so in order to achieve Kyber you would need to put in legitimate effort.
Most casual players would probably remain somewhere in Bronze/Chromium, and beginners will be paired with mostly Inactive accounts.
This will also benefit the new players, because they'll have better chances at climbing rather than face the ridiculous odds I've seen (like being matched against opponents with up to 5x my GP/roster size when I was in Carbonite and they weren't Inactive. In fact, they made it a point to wipe my entire board more often than not, when I couldn't even beat 1 squad of theirs).
Either way, something, anything, needs to be done. Until such a time has passed I'm not even signing up for GAC anymore. I've never seen a more poorly set up (joke of a) tournament in my life - physically, or virtually.
In fact, I'll add to this, as a direct response towards multiple comments from multiple people on this thread:
The entire reason why I made this post to begin with was not from getting matched against opponents who were Inactive.
If that were the case I wouldn't care. If I match against a guy with double, triple, or quadruple my roster and all they want to do is a single battle for the points, I'm perfectly fine with them.
But as it has been in my experience, this is not the case. My opponents in Bronze, and Carbonite with multiple GL, GAS, Darth Malgus, and other high end squads were not Inactive at all. In the past year, I've only faced a grand total of 5 opponents who were inactive/no-shows.
So yeah, I'm very irate that I was constantly, and consistently being matched against players I couldn't possibly beat, even if I had God himself helping me.
In fact, I'll add to this, as a direct response towards multiple comments from multiple people on this thread:
The entire reason why I made this post to begin with was not from getting matched against opponents who were Inactive.
If that were the case I wouldn't care. If I match against a guy with double, triple, or quadruple my roster and all they want to do is a single battle for the points, I'm perfectly fine with them.
But as it has been in my experience, this is not the case. My opponents in Bronze, and Carbonite with multiple GL, GAS, Darth Malgus, and other high end squads were not Inactive at all. In the past year, I've only faced a grand total of 5 opponents who were inactive/no-shows.
So yeah, I'm very irate that I was constantly, and consistently being matched against players I couldn't possibly beat, even if I had God himself helping me.
In your last 24 matches you've had:
10 losses vs larger rosters
2 losses vs smaller rosters
7 wins vs larger rosters
5 wins vs smaller rosters
17 total matches to larger rosters
7 matches to smaller rosters
12 wins, 12 losses
3 of those losses you didn't attack at all - but at least one you could have easily won if you did because your opponent was a no-show. The other two, we just don't know because chances are nearly even you'd have won one of those.
Even in spite of your mistakes (no shade here - we all make mistakes or forget to attack sometimes), you're still at a 50/50 win rate, and you win 41% of the time when matched against a larger roster - which is no mean feat and a very respectful win rate, all things considered.
In your last 5v5 week you lost three times in a row, all to larger rosters - but that's unusual for you (one of those you only lost by 37 banners - that's a pretty close call). Statistically you should have won at least one of those. That aside - is it possible that you're feeling a bit put-out by the recent streak of losses and have chosen to chalk it up to bad match making? Because according to the numbers - things are going about like anyone in high-ish kyber would expect them to, where the consensus is that matchmaking is working well.
When we actually look at the math and see what's going on, perhaps things don't look so dismal as you're making them out to be. I'll still concede that it's not the best experience to match against bigger rosters - but a good player will ALWAYS be playing against larger rosters - the better you are at GAC, the harder your opponents will be, and often that means that you're going to have to punch above your weight class.
F2P since the last time I bought Kyros, Crystals, or the Conquest Pass.
They "over simplified" what should be a championship / tournament.
In most sports you have categories, boxing have weight category for example.
In swgoh you have league and division but SR is the only requirement which is a value of your win / lost (again matchmaking would be fine if SR wouldn't also be used as a ranking system), this game is not really tuned to be a competive game otherwise players would be seperated by GP (league) then SR (division).
...
10 losses vs larger rosters
...
7 wins vs larger rosters
Out of 24 matches I was paired 17 times against larger rosters. You don't think it's an issue when 70% of your matches are against unfair odds?
And those were just my opponents. The individual brackets were much worse. And that's also my point. I've lost all interest in GAC because the Matchmaking is absolutely dreadful.
Edited to add:
Don't get me wrong; most of those wins were purely from out-thinking my opponent with 1-2 absolutely crucial placements, and a little reverse psychology.
If I had made even a tiny mistake in many of those matches I would have lost miserably.
A year later, I'm honestly really sick of this win, or lose.
In a competition you should be facing opponents with similar capabilities and skill.
In this game, that equates to win/loss ratio and roster size. So far I see absolutely no indicator how Matchmaking is even remotely fair - most especially not to any new players who don't even have a halfway decent roster to speak of.
Replies
1. It won't solve mismatch problems. Anyone who remember old system must also remember huge amount of complains about "bad" matchmaking, in both "pure GP" and "top X" systems. "He had more GLs", "He had more relics", etc, etc, etc.
2. It will harm good players who could climb higher.
3. It will make the entire system much more complex without really good reason.
Although maybe the current "mismatches" problem was less intense if Elo system was implemented for matchmaking instead of pure win rate for entire player base.
And, of course, there is the nice separate way to make REALLY competitive PvP tournament - a yearly (?) PvP event were players can draw any existing toons up to certain amount of GP (the same for all involved) and then fight with roster they drawn.
I never want to go back to GP based either.
However, instead of a basement league in each division, we could have a Limbo league. If your GP is above a certain threshold, say 4 million or whatever, you cant drop below Kyber 5. Instead, you drop into Kyber Limbo. The only way into Kyber LImbo is to have a high GP and fall out of kyber 5.
This prevents the lower leagues from being infected with toxic 11 million+ GP accounts that play once every week. And Aurodium promotes into Kyber 5 the same as usual, and normal kyber 5 under performers drop into aurodium.
If you want to get OUT of Kyber limbo, you must also build your skill level high enough in battles therein to enter something like Kyber 3... demonstrating you are engaging. And you only ever progress out of limbo after the end of a grand arena when they do the squish and adjustments. and you get put into whichever Kyber division is appropriate.
Rewards in Kyber limbo should be lower, so that its not a great place to be.
Maybe that just pushed the problem to Kyber 3.. but at least there are better rosters there...
I dunno. there is certainly no perfect solution, but I do get that an 11 million GP roster isn't serving much purpose when paired with 2.5 million GP accounts, ever.
Under the old MM system based off of gp, both people got to play the game, if they desired. One roster might be horribly outmatched due to bloat or poor choices, but they still got to attack meaningfully and fight battles that were within their scope of game play. That said, a MM system where folks win 100+ in a row has big flaws.
New SR system gives competitive matches for most of kyber but creates 9m vs 5m gp matches where one player does not get to play the video game.
This is almost the exact way I described basement leagues a while ago. Except there would be a basement in each division, with some gp limit for each.
This is exactly where I stand (now in Chrome division).
Let me put this into perspective; I'm highly talented at strategy, and I generally used to win in GAC (before the current system) because with similar roster size I could out-plan my opponent.
Coming back to the game years, and years later - I'm facing opponents using characters, or who have characters I will never have any hope of beating unless I spend about 8,659€ (I actually did the math btw) OR I'll be grinding for roughly 2-3 years to make any progress and start winning again.
I don't know about all of you, but if I'm joining a competition the goal is to win. I couldn't begin to care less what the rewards are.
And if the matchmaking is so freaking poor, then there is 0 reason for me to participate. 300 crystals or less isn't worth being thoroughly stressed and annoyed for a week at time, multiple times per month.
Not to mention, what about the players who join GAC with JMK, GAS, SEE Galactic Legends on defense, and do nothing because their expectation is they'll win regardless what you do (in Chrome and lower).
It's a garbage system that can't get much worse even if they tried to make it worse.
It doesn’t sound like it.
The new system is much better than the old GP match making You’ll eventually fall to where you are winning 50%.
You’re only losing out on rewards by sitting out
I don't know what sized roster you have but there are people in kyber 2 with as few as 2 GLs that play against people that actually try to win. If you're in Chromium meeting 9m accounts, the only way they possibly sank that low is because they don't care about winning and are (the vast majority of the time) doing a single battle for participation rewards. If you're as skilled as you claim, this should not present an issue for you. All you have to do is beat two of their teams, or beat one of their teams more efficiently than they did.
I won't try to make a case that these are ideal matchups - they're most definitely not - but it's a bit strange in the same post to both boast about your skill and bemoan what should be easy matches for you with just one or two solid counters.
The system could certainly be better - and the experience for smaller accounts isn't great. I just have yet to hear anyone come up with a reasonable solution to the problem. For now the solution is to do what tens of thousands of other players have done and grow your roster.
...For now the solution is NOT to do absolutely nothing
Well, let me help you out here:
I stopped playing way back when there was only one Galactic Legend and my GP at that time was under 1 mil.
Since returning about a year ago, my GP has grown to about 4M.
Yet how am I supposed to compete against GAS? Or Darth Malgus? Bane? Jedi Master Kenobi? Leia? Lord Vader? Full R8+ squads when I have less than 5x R7 units?
What's my incentive to even pretend to care about this event for the next foreseeable future?
I hate to break it to you if you're blissfully unaware, but there are a ton of Carbonite players who have 2 or more GL, and full relic squads like General Skywalker 501st.
And yeah, given the straight fact that I've been outmatched by around 3/4 of my opponents die the past year, and still climbed from Carbonite to Chromium, in less than a full year...
You bet I consider myself quite the strategist.
But it doesn't make this event any less stressful, annoying, and nerve racking to the point I honestly just want to quit again, especially when listening to the people in this forum who are clearly out of touch with anyone lower than Aurorium in Grand Arena.
In fact, I'm almost willing to bet if anyone who's gotten comfortable up there were to make a 100% brand new account, and spent 0 cash, after about 3-4 months tops, they'd give up the account.
You know that I often agree with you but here I respectfully have to disagree.
Whenever this topic came up, which it regularly does, there have been some good ideas in those threads. But, even if none of the players would have come up with any idea, this shouldn't matter.
The fact alone, that this topic never dies down and often gets mentioned again should be reason enough for CG to realise that it is definitely not "ideal" and it is not the players' job to come up with solutions. That's what the Devs are for, it is their job.
There will always be people complaining about any system where they perceive they’re at a disadvantage no matter how good of a system CG creates. Matchmaking is never perfect, and there isn’t a game out there that has it down perfect
Where did I say to do nothing? I said grow your roster. It sounds like you've been doing that, so that's a plus.
Plenty of people run multiple accounts, and probably most people don't spend on their alt accounts. I'm not saying it's not a struggle in GAC for a smaller account. I am saying that your solution introduces worse problems than you're trying to solve - and we know it does because we've seen it before.
Sure - I do actually agree that it's a problem. I'm not making the case that the situation isn't frustrating, or that things couldn't be improved. I'm saying this is a hard problem to solve and I'm sure any kind of input the devs could get into how to solve the problem would be more useful than the same old suggestion to go back to the (even more) broken system of GP based match making.
That being said, it's ultimately unlikely that the devs will do ANYTHING about it, considering all indications seem to be that they're happy with the current system. Which is honestly unfortunate, but that's where we are. The solution remains, "grow your roster" as the higher your climb in GAC, the less of this nonsense you see.
Here's why:
Territory War your opposing guild it's determined by the overall GP of everyone who joined the event.
This means it is entirely GP based Matchmaking, and frankly I don't see much complaint about it. Clearly, the way things are now as opposed to 3-5 years ago it works quite well, even in large groups.
I still don't see any argument here as to why an initial bracket can not be determined by GP for all 8 contestants strictly for determining brackets.
Other than "it was bad years ago", what legitimate argument is there that grouping 8 players with similar roster size would be negative?
Here's another idea. Make Carbonite & Bronzium 100% GP based (which has already been suggested earlier), and then for the higher levels return to sbmm? By then you'll likely have a large enough Roster to properly compete or at the very least, you should in theory have the experience to compensate for it if you are struggling in growth.
Well, TW isn't 100% GP matchmaking, we just don't know what the actual matchmaking is so hard to say much about it, but there are definitely a whole lot of complains. You just must not be on the forums much around lock time.
And the problem with GP matchmaking in GA is it promotes lean rosters, which is bad for the game overall. This "skill" based MM we have now is actually really good in Aurodium and Kyber. I do think they should try to do something for the lower leagues, but not sure they're willing to split out the MM like that.
Your opinion might carry more weight if you stopped bragging about this, especially when a quick review of your modding and GAC history suggest otherwise.
There are plenty of complaints about TW matchmaking - those threads pop up all the time - GP based match making IS problematic in TW for numerous reasons (see any of the many, many posts about sandbagging in TW), but that's a whole different ball of wax.
I get that you don't see the problem. I've done my best to explain it to you. I'm sorry that I couldn't make it more clear.
For what it's worth, I DO think CG should do something about the disparity in lower leagues.
I agree, it will never be possible that everyone is happy or to have the "perfect" MM.
But I also think, that in this case it is not just some "fringe" people whom are never happy amd like to complain.
I agree. 🙂
I also don't think they will do something about it.
Perhaps not, but as long as people keep bringing up the fact there is a serious issue, especially in lower leagues there's always a chance the game devs will eventually stop being lazy.
The issue exists only in the lower leagues, not especially there.
Nice try, but that's simply not true. I'm sure everyone who even periodically keeps an eye on Grand Arena has been aware of accounts under 5M GP in Kyber 1 - and not the occasional oddball either.
How is it fair to them to face opponents with double their roster capabilities?
As it has been pointed out before, there are also players in Kyber with as few as 2 GL. And they're expected to have a fair competition against opponents with every GL in the game?
Interesting, so by this very logic it's equally fair to hold a tournament where small children compete against teenagers, or adults even?
Wow. Sounds... fair... I guess... (sarcasm)
That is a completely separate issue, and is an actual bug, not a complaint about MM.
How the lost/won SR value is dertermined is not fine.
Ranking and rewards system are not fine as they are.
IMO, they "over simplified" GAC / PvP system where a single number is used for everyting, "Skill Rating", when it should be only used for matchmaking. SR lost/won should'nt be a fixed value but calculated on how efficient you were.
I wouldn't use skill rating as a ranking system or rewards system.
Squish happen since everything use skill rating and they can't figure out (or too lazy) to do a proper championship.
If you have seasonal pvp, ranking should reset but not your skill rating, invested players would move up the ladder when lazy players would stay at the bottom.
What would be great for GAC is a mixed elements of the current GAC with what they introduced at first at the begining, Tournament (when they added Chirrut and Baze as a reward), since they have more tools at their disposal to ban cheaters.
But let be honest, the numbers of "afk players" is not significant for CG to do something.
Ew, no
Care to explain ?
You have a couple of points here. As my father always liked to say "for every problem, there IS a solution if you want to put in the effort to find it".
I still feel Matchmaking in and of itself is beyond broken from Carbonite to Chromium from what I've seen but this brings about another interesting thought.
Many games do this including FPS games. It would be a fantastic way to filter out "barely participating" players until they're pretty much stuck together eventually.
It'll also make players who legitimately want to compete, habe engaging matches against other players.
That alone, would solve a lot of Matchmaking issues in my opinion. For example, it'll move the leagues so in order to achieve Kyber you would need to put in legitimate effort.
Most casual players would probably remain somewhere in Bronze/Chromium, and beginners will be paired with mostly Inactive accounts.
This will also benefit the new players, because they'll have better chances at climbing rather than face the ridiculous odds I've seen (like being matched against opponents with up to 5x my GP/roster size when I was in Carbonite and they weren't Inactive. In fact, they made it a point to wipe my entire board more often than not, when I couldn't even beat 1 squad of theirs).
Either way, something, anything, needs to be done. Until such a time has passed I'm not even signing up for GAC anymore. I've never seen a more poorly set up (joke of a) tournament in my life - physically, or virtually.
The entire reason why I made this post to begin with was not from getting matched against opponents who were Inactive.
If that were the case I wouldn't care. If I match against a guy with double, triple, or quadruple my roster and all they want to do is a single battle for the points, I'm perfectly fine with them.
But as it has been in my experience, this is not the case. My opponents in Bronze, and Carbonite with multiple GL, GAS, Darth Malgus, and other high end squads were not Inactive at all. In the past year, I've only faced a grand total of 5 opponents who were inactive/no-shows.
So yeah, I'm very irate that I was constantly, and consistently being matched against players I couldn't possibly beat, even if I had God himself helping me.
In your last 24 matches you've had:
10 losses vs larger rosters
2 losses vs smaller rosters
7 wins vs larger rosters
5 wins vs smaller rosters
17 total matches to larger rosters
7 matches to smaller rosters
12 wins, 12 losses
3 of those losses you didn't attack at all - but at least one you could have easily won if you did because your opponent was a no-show. The other two, we just don't know because chances are nearly even you'd have won one of those.
Even in spite of your mistakes (no shade here - we all make mistakes or forget to attack sometimes), you're still at a 50/50 win rate, and you win 41% of the time when matched against a larger roster - which is no mean feat and a very respectful win rate, all things considered.
In your last 5v5 week you lost three times in a row, all to larger rosters - but that's unusual for you (one of those you only lost by 37 banners - that's a pretty close call). Statistically you should have won at least one of those. That aside - is it possible that you're feeling a bit put-out by the recent streak of losses and have chosen to chalk it up to bad match making? Because according to the numbers - things are going about like anyone in high-ish kyber would expect them to, where the consensus is that matchmaking is working well.
When we actually look at the math and see what's going on, perhaps things don't look so dismal as you're making them out to be. I'll still concede that it's not the best experience to match against bigger rosters - but a good player will ALWAYS be playing against larger rosters - the better you are at GAC, the harder your opponents will be, and often that means that you're going to have to punch above your weight class.
In most sports you have categories, boxing have weight category for example.
In swgoh you have league and division but SR is the only requirement which is a value of your win / lost (again matchmaking would be fine if SR wouldn't also be used as a ranking system), this game is not really tuned to be a competive game otherwise players would be seperated by GP (league) then SR (division).
Out of 24 matches I was paired 17 times against larger rosters. You don't think it's an issue when 70% of your matches are against unfair odds?
And those were just my opponents. The individual brackets were much worse. And that's also my point. I've lost all interest in GAC because the Matchmaking is absolutely dreadful.
Edited to add:
Don't get me wrong; most of those wins were purely from out-thinking my opponent with 1-2 absolutely crucial placements, and a little reverse psychology.
If I had made even a tiny mistake in many of those matches I would have lost miserably.
A year later, I'm honestly really sick of this win, or lose.
In a competition you should be facing opponents with similar capabilities and skill.
In this game, that equates to win/loss ratio and roster size. So far I see absolutely no indicator how Matchmaking is even remotely fair - most especially not to any new players who don't even have a halfway decent roster to speak of.