How RG and QGJ dictate the meta, and why it's bad
Since the protection update, RG has become one of the best toon, and a necessity in most cases.
This has led to the rise of an already popular toon: QGJ.
Since everyone is running RG, QGJ has become necessary as well, because his dispell is a really strong asset.
Since no other dispeller can fulfill that role as effectively as him, thanks to his amazing utility and great damage, no other dispeller is used at the moment. (Some run Plo Koon, but he is not the best choice unless you run a clone team. That means being a whale for a 7* Rex)
You now find yourself in a situation where everyone runs QGJ and RG. To counter this, more and more people are shifting to a 2 tanks team, with STHan most of the time as a secondary tank.
So what happens? You have to dedicate 2, possibly 3 slots of your 5-man team to predefined characters.
This severely cripples diversity and creates a boring pvp environment.
When you get to choose 2 characters instead of 5, doesn't that mean that there's a problem with the meta?
This needs to be changed, and here is what should be done:
Dispell should not remove taunts anymore.
Yes, it sounds crazy. But think about this: if your taunt can't be dispelled, you don't have to run 2 tanks, and this would actually help tanks become valuable, instead of just being a juicy offense up buff for the enemy team.
"But how can I counter RG if I can't dispell him????1"
Well the answer is simple: You can't. Which is why he needs to be tuned, and dare I say, nerfed!
RG should not be allowed to taunt for 2 turns after his taunt expires. This would provide you with a window of opportunity to take down core characters.
RG would still be reliable thanks to his out of turn taunt, but it would not be the dominant strategy: Remember that other taunters would not be dispelled.
ST Han would probably need some tuning too, probably a 2-turn taunt instead of 3.
This has led to the rise of an already popular toon: QGJ.
Since everyone is running RG, QGJ has become necessary as well, because his dispell is a really strong asset.
Since no other dispeller can fulfill that role as effectively as him, thanks to his amazing utility and great damage, no other dispeller is used at the moment. (Some run Plo Koon, but he is not the best choice unless you run a clone team. That means being a whale for a 7* Rex)
You now find yourself in a situation where everyone runs QGJ and RG. To counter this, more and more people are shifting to a 2 tanks team, with STHan most of the time as a secondary tank.
So what happens? You have to dedicate 2, possibly 3 slots of your 5-man team to predefined characters.
This severely cripples diversity and creates a boring pvp environment.
When you get to choose 2 characters instead of 5, doesn't that mean that there's a problem with the meta?
This needs to be changed, and here is what should be done:
Dispell should not remove taunts anymore.
Yes, it sounds crazy. But think about this: if your taunt can't be dispelled, you don't have to run 2 tanks, and this would actually help tanks become valuable, instead of just being a juicy offense up buff for the enemy team.
"But how can I counter RG if I can't dispell him????1"
Well the answer is simple: You can't. Which is why he needs to be tuned, and dare I say, nerfed!
RG should not be allowed to taunt for 2 turns after his taunt expires. This would provide you with a window of opportunity to take down core characters.
RG would still be reliable thanks to his out of turn taunt, but it would not be the dominant strategy: Remember that other taunters would not be dispelled.
ST Han would probably need some tuning too, probably a 2-turn taunt instead of 3.
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Might lead to some more play from other tanks as well.
While we're on the subject - any chance e could get more than one lonely hard node for Hoth rebel soldier shards?
I agree that RG having a cooldown on his taunt would save a lot of OP issues.
However, the new PTP/PTW meta is already moving on - Sun Fac can easily overcome RG.
that took some cojones, to ask for a nerf. ow wait.. the forum is filled with nerf requests..
OT: The "taunt meta" just came in to play after protection was introduced. I guess you also "dared" to ask for a nerf on dooku/qgj speed meta, wich resulted in the current meta. And you will probably also dare to ask for a nerf on the next meta. i like to call it circlewhining, asking for a solution wich will eventually become the problem itself. I suggest you hold off on the complaining and let the current meta settle in first. Once alot of players reach lvl80, the gold abi's are mostly unlocked and players also starred/leveled other toons the taunt thing might not even be an issue anymore.
Will you please stop begging for nerfs and instead look for ways to either buff other toons to make them more efficient or to look at actually playing strategically.
RG is actually really easy to get around if you know the damage capability of each of your toons. Knock your target down to 60-70% health and then attack someone else until you have a heavy attack that will take them out in one strike.
As others have mentioned, there are other characters beyond QGJ that can remove the taunt.
This would actually be a buff for st han. If his taunt gets dispelled it waits all remaining taunt turns then the cooldown. So currently he may have to wait 5 turns to taunt again if dispelled.
Also he rarely survives to turn 3 anyway.
It has all the components required for consideration
Why the current character is limiting diversity
What a fix should be
And how that fix would improve diversity
I think the issue would be a few things
- we don't know L80 gear X meta yet. Until it settles out over the next month no large changes should be made
- this would be a massive shift which would cause a lot of unintended consequences that would need to be evaluated.
I do think once we hit 80 if you get consolidation of leaderboards into one or two teams the setting should change but until then we should wait and the debs should play test the idea of an undispellable taunt and see what it does to various teams.
Computer AI dodge is the current meta.
I find the non-RNG nature of dodge as complete Kafka. You will get the first hit in on lumi and the second then the next 4 attacks are dodge over 80 percent of the time so as she can fire her heal special. NEVER works like that for me when lumi is lead.
Way bigger issues than a stun taunt toon
- Sun Fac will only make things worse: He will completely remove tanks from viability. EA knows of the current meta situation and knows that a character with a dispell on his basic and a taunt/counter will be the solution. That's why they chose to make him a pay2win character.
You will soon come to realize that my dispell change proposal reduces his impact and creates a healthier environment. It adresses this very issue of Sun Fac perfectly.
I bet that if things don't change, we will get Sun Fac nerf threads by 1 or 2 months.
- EA should just buff other dispellers: That would only move the problem. Having a reliable dispell is too much of an asset, and people would only change from QGJ to whoever the fotm dispeller is. My change proposal eliminates this problem entirely.
- omg if u cant beat them git good and stop crying : That is NOT the issue here. I can beat QGJ and RG on a daily basis. What I am worried about is that they became almost mandatory to perform correctly in Arena. If you are okay with having 2 or 3 slots automatically taken before you build your team, that's fine. But that's still horrible game design and I am NOT okay with that. Diversity is what makes games unique and interesting. Stop trying to remove that from the game.
- You don't know what the meta will be at 80: There are some whales who are 78 and Omega'd, and they still run those 2. There is a pic on the forum that shows someone's arena shard, a launch shard, where the 3 first team are exactly the same. These people have been around for long and are whales: This only confirms that this strategy is currently the best, and offers no viable opportunity.
Now if everybody could READ THE POST and not only see "nerf qgj and rg", that would be great.
You can't honestly look at your arena shards and tell me there is diversity.
I own RG myself, but sometimes, you have to accept nerfs in order to make the game better in the long term.
If somebody wishes to offer constructive feedback and solid arguments, please step forward.
IIRC QGJ was made easily farmable to counter Poe decks. Because Poe has a 2-turn taunt. Take away the dispel of the taunt and Poe makes a massive comeback.
I cite Rex lead teams and Ewok teams as examples.
That was before the protection update. Poe is not as strong as before, since his only move was to offer a swift victory. It's not possible anymore, not with protection.
And now that TM reduction can be resisted, he's not as reliable as before.
So basically this change would allow people to pick Poe in the right setup, with a team built around a fast taunt but no real utility besides that. Poe would be a niche that is picked in some teams.
That's exactly what I want: Characters that have to be picked according to your team. Not cookie cutters toons that can fit everywhere.
Rex can't be innovation for 90% of the player base.
Ewok teams are meh in PvP. Especially since the TM reduction resist fix.
Their real usefulness is in PvE, raids and GW in particular.
People are smart....if all characters were made with the exact same skills, people would complain about there being no diversity whatsoever other than cosmetics, and the game wouldn't be nearly as fun. People find ways around issues; when there's a will, there's a way.
When certain people discover an edge using their own free thinking and ingenuity, the ones who didn't think of it first (or is currently stuck in one method) will complain....and when the complainers discover a good counter-measure, the other party would complain. Neverending cycle; TC should accept that there will always be chaos in the world.